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Author Topic: Contributors' Collective  (Read 45172 times)

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« Reply #125 on: May 05, 2009, 07:24 »
0
I like the idea someone posted earlier about uploading images there exclusively for a month before uploading to the other sites. I don't think many of us would be willing to throw potential money away by not uploading to the top earning sites.


hqimages

  • www.draiochtwebdesign.com
« Reply #126 on: May 05, 2009, 07:29 »
0
Let's put it this way:

Big players = More expensive images - understandable?
Small players = Less expensive images - Fair enough?

So, you can have Yuris images in higher tiers for same resolution than some newbie?
Do you think then it would be fair?

Well no because everyone should get paid the same amount no matter how many images they have, all I'm saying is don't allow bigger players to flood the pool at the expense of the smaller player, I see it happen over and over on various web sites, and if this web site is not concerned with the bottom-line, but with the contributor, then that issue has to be tackled.. a group of volunteers making money for big players while the small ones complain in the forums, is exactly what is going on now with all of the microstock sites, this one, being a co-op, and unconcerned with profit, should care more about the smaller contributor, and less about who is making them more money.. I can't explain it any clearer than that! But if it is only profits people want out of this, it's the same as any other web site..

Milinz

« Reply #127 on: May 05, 2009, 07:44 »
0
That with same ammount payed is still wrong and communistic ideology... Sorry I don't like that. I would like to see that images are selling and more they are selling they bring more money like on DT... That is very nice to have there! I think some tiers for contributors are needed to be made...

Maybe problem with flooding can be solved in search? There can be made some tweaks that no more than 2-3 images from same author show on one result page... That may be good if possible to implement. But, then you can loose results by relevancy and some buyers due to that ;-)

Politizing with sales oriented business is always wrong... Tha uthopia with same for all with same earnings can be live only if there is ONE AND ONLY agency... Unfortunately, there is many competitor agencies and they all fight for their piece of pie...

batman

« Reply #128 on: May 05, 2009, 08:41 »
0
Ok, your posting crossed mine so I will reply to this. Based on the response we had today? Not many. so I'm cutting out !  Good noite ! You all did Getty a great favour.

Some people live on opposite sites of the globe Batman. While you're going to bed, others just woke up. Don't quit yet. I need some time to think it all over.

hokey dokey, i have awoken from my batcave, i'm in. but i'm going to sit and watch as it is dialogue we need, not one guy doing all the talking . we succeed if we put our brains and experience in business and networking together. we fail, if someone craps on the idea.

for those who crap on the idea initially, do yourself a favour and make some dialogue instead of crapping on the idea. it's for your own good too. if not, please keep your negativity to yourself and out of this dialogue, it's better posted on Istock forum.
and we won't miss your absence... i assure you.

cheers FlemishDream.

donding

  • Think before you speak
« Reply #129 on: May 05, 2009, 08:47 »
0
I was thrilled to awaken to some productive communication!!

My brainstorm.....as for covering costs. Would something like Flickr where you are limited to uploads unless you pay to be a member work? This might not solve the problem of huge uploads, but again like was mentioned before the more images on the site the more the buyer will stay there.

donding

  • Think before you speak
« Reply #130 on: May 05, 2009, 08:49 »
0
I'm happy to see we have some web designer's and people with the knowledge of what the procedure to take and the costs and time involved will be. It definetly needs to be mapped out before anyone trys to drive down this dirt road...then we need to figure out how to pave it.

donding

  • Think before you speak
« Reply #131 on: May 05, 2009, 09:04 »
0
There has to be some type of quality control. We personally don't upload crap to our micro sites and we don't upload that crap to our personal web sites, but if it's open to anyone and everyone then you will end up with alot of people with a point and shoots taking pictures of their cat crapping in the litter box....then once the buyer's keep pulling up those images among the quality ones...they will get tired of looking and go back to the quality controled sites...so there has to be some sort of quality control here.
Agreed???

alias

« Reply #132 on: May 05, 2009, 09:17 »
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Agreed???

Definitely agreed. All creatives need someone to edit and check their work. Learning to trust the opinion of your editors is part of learning to be a creative professional.

For this reason I take nearly all moans about inspection with a pinch of salt :)

As good as we are we need our work to be inspected by a second set of eyes. 15 years ago (when it was still transparencies and light boxes) agency photographers often did not even do their own edits.

« Reply #133 on: May 05, 2009, 09:33 »
0
I joined the party here a little late. Many collectives and "photographers agencies" have been tried out in the traditional market and I can't think of one that was successful. It's not that I don't agree with the principle it just it would require some huge resources to pull off.

« Reply #134 on: May 05, 2009, 09:41 »
0
I love reading all the comments and suggestions. This sure is a bright and talented group. Can I offer one alternative? In the interest of time and not having to reinvent the wheel by setting up a new site and the almighty search algorithm, payment issues and staff.

Why not try to unite as a group and select a representative to contact a site we all agree offers what is top on our collective list. First we create a list of what we want. Then try to negotiate or work with the site owner so it's a win win for all. They can then advertise the fact that the top players in Microstock are there and watch the people come. That's the movie in my head anyway.

Other randoms thoughts that make me worry that something needs to get done fast because how long do you think it will be before Flikr start's selling pic's for pennies? The time to act, educate newbies and organize is now. I will put my camera down before I sell a picture for pennies. So should everyone else.

Yes I am an Exclusive but maybe not for long.

alias

« Reply #135 on: May 05, 2009, 09:47 »
0
I joined the party here a little late. Many collectives and "photographers agencies" have been tried out in the traditional market and I can't think of one that was successful.

I can think of more than one. But not one that has more than about 50 basically elite photographers.  And typically less than 20. And not RF either. The thing to remember about the co-ops is that invariably they are about profit sharing. So you potentially end up getting a cut of my corporate report etc. I doubt that would go down well in microstock land :)

This is why I believe that what micro/stock needs is some sort of market place, but which some sort of layer of administration. Rather than yet another microstock.

alias

« Reply #136 on: May 05, 2009, 09:48 »
0
how long do you think it will be before Flikr start's selling pic's for pennies?

The Flickr Getty deal restricts that AFAIK.

Milinz

« Reply #137 on: May 05, 2009, 10:28 »
0
how long do you think it will be before Flikr start's selling pic's for pennies?

The Flickr Getty deal restricts that AFAIK.

They could change arrangement in a minute... Like istock removed OPT-OUT SUBSCRIPTION Button ;-)

m@m

« Reply #138 on: May 05, 2009, 10:33 »
0
It's refreshing to see some knowledgeable people and finally some good ideas on this thread...It can be done people, we as the main force on this business can beat them.  ;)

hqimages

  • www.draiochtwebdesign.com
« Reply #139 on: May 05, 2009, 10:48 »
0
Yes, some really great ideas from everyone! I think with a bit of organisation, this could be done.. has to be a co-op, and maybe somewhere between macro and micro stock, a new model, that doesn't charge as much as macro, but doesn't charge as little as micro either.. the exclusive for a month idea ROCKS, I really really love that one, and lots of other great thoughts, even talking about this helps, and if we keep talking, we'll keep attracting people that have real skills to help organise it.. you never know what opportunity could pop up!!

WarrenPrice

« Reply #140 on: May 05, 2009, 11:03 »
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I think we keep shooting ourselves in the foot.  Everytime a new site comes on line ... we attack it.  I saw CutCaster as just the right vehicle to fight against the monopoly.  It could only work, however, if everyone went exclusive there and quit uploading to Getty and Corbis.  

The approach we are talking about in this thread is like re-inventing the wheel.  If you want to fight the monopoly ... don't use them.  Unite behind an independant.



Preparing to take more heat, I am reposting my original post on this subject.  It is on page one and was posted at 1320 yesterday.  I am still shocked by the attacks and the claim that I was being negative. 



hqimages

  • www.draiochtwebdesign.com
« Reply #141 on: May 05, 2009, 11:46 »
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Warren exactly because you are doubtful means if you are won over by the idea, you could become one of it's greatest advocates.. plus the more people say something can't be done, the more we have to come up with ideas of why it will, and how to make it different.. everyone's opinion counts whether good or bad..

And anyone outright slamming the idea, just take that to drive the idea further, prove them all wrong.. work for me in business anyway, always has, I want more people to tell me I can't do something because it makes me even more determined to do it!!


« Reply #142 on: May 05, 2009, 11:52 »
0
I want more people to tell me I can't do something because it makes me even more determined to do it!!

You can't do it!  ;)

hqimages

  • www.draiochtwebdesign.com
« Reply #143 on: May 05, 2009, 11:53 »
0
I want more people to tell me I can't do something because it makes me even more determined to do it!!

You can't do it!  ;)

lol!! I'll prove you wrong mister!! (starts programming :D)
« Last Edit: May 05, 2009, 11:56 by hqimages »

batman

« Reply #144 on: May 05, 2009, 11:58 »
0
Warren exactly because you are doubtful means if you are won over by the idea, you could become one of it's greatest advocates.. plus the more people say something can't be done, the more we have to come up with ideas of why it will, and how to make it different.. everyone's opinion counts whether good or bad..

And anyone outright slamming the idea, just take that to drive the idea further, prove them all wrong.. work for me in business anyway, always has, I want more people to tell me I can't do something because it makes me even more determined to do it!!

lol, the contrarian theory. in the real stock market, we made lots of money thinking this way.
like now we are going in, when everyone is selling, and vice versa.
i think you will succeed.  even if this co-op idea dies due to warren and his cohorts, there could still be some form of little pockets of networkings with people we find that have the ability and the diversity we need as a group to succeed.

i am learning more and more, not so much as trying to make this idea of gostwyck to work, but more to see a bright idea popping up with each new comment that is made here .


RT


« Reply #145 on: May 05, 2009, 12:00 »
0
I want more people to tell me I can't do something because it makes me even more determined to do it!!

You can't do it!  ;)

You CAN do it, but unfortunately it'll fail.

« Reply #146 on: May 05, 2009, 12:02 »
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Again, this thread is exciting. A couple of thoughts come to mind.

Don't get discouraged. This thread is just 24 hours old, and it has already generated some great ideas. This is a process that will take many months to carefully work out, if we choose to pursue it.

The one month exclusive idea is genius. Very few of us will want to cut our ties with the traditional micro agencies. At least at first. This would be a way of giving our group an edge, and we'd still be able to generate traditional income. The successful art cooperatives that I've seen aren't trying to eradicate privately owned galleries. They're just offering a new pricing structure to the artists. One thing that is complicated by the internet is that many galleries make the artists sign an exclusive contract within a certain geographic area. Not sure how we could use that one on the internet. Maybe the one month exclusive, or something similar, would take care of that issue. It changes the exclusivity from geography to time. Also, complicated by the internet is that in a geographic setting, competition makes the pie larger not smaller. I use Santa Fe as an example because I know the community. People flock to Santa Fe to buy art. More galleries open, and more people flock to Santa Fe to buy more art. There have been some gallery closings this last year, but not as many as I expected. These were probably under funded and didn't expand their marketing strategies to make up for the shortfall in income due to the recession. That's just a guess on my part.

Let's not let all of the frustrations we feel toward the traditional agencies at the moment make us hostile and cloud our judgment. We're not trying to make traditional microstock go away, we're just trying to find a successful alternative that will give the photographers and illustrators a larger percentage of sales. My attitude is that they own the businesses. They have the right to set their own standards. If I don't like it I should stop uploading to those sites that have business practices that I can't work with or work to find a successful alternative. Unfortunately, I don't know enough about business to know if we're being totally screwed financially by these sites or not. Look at the banking crisis here in the US. Are the successful agencies making larger profits at our expense, or are they struggling to maintain some sort of profit margin during a recession? I don't know, but this last year has made me cynical about business in general.

While still spotty, the economic news coming out of the US is getting better. This might be a great time to start planning for the eventual up turn in business. It's sort of like the buy low and sell high rule. Let's hope things have bottomed out and are really starting up. However, if the current recession hadn't happened, we'd all still be happy working and uploading. We'd never have examined what was happening with our work at the established agencies. At the very least, this is a good time to examine what's really going on with our sales.

WarrenPrice

« Reply #147 on: May 05, 2009, 12:06 »
0
Warren exactly because you are doubtful means if you are won over by the idea, you could become one of it's greatest advocates.. plus the more people say something can't be done, the more we have to come up with ideas of why it will, and how to make it different.. everyone's opinion counts whether good or bad..

And anyone outright slamming the idea, just take that to drive the idea further, prove them all wrong.. work for me in business anyway, always has, I want more people to tell me I can't do something because it makes me even more determined to do it!!

Doubtful???  Are we reading the same words?  I was offering an idea, not doubting an idea? 
I read the same recommendation in several other posts.  It was praised.  Are we speaking the same language? ???

tan510jomast

« Reply #148 on: May 05, 2009, 12:09 »
0
Again, this thread is exciting. A couple of thoughts come to mind.

Don't get discouraged. This thread is just 24 hours old, and it has already generated some great ideas. This is a process that will take many months to carefully work out, if we choose to pursue it.

The one month exclusive idea is genius. Very few of us will want to cut our ties with the traditional micro agencies. At least at first. This would be a way of giving our group an edge, and we'd still be able to generate traditional income. The successful art cooperatives that I've seen aren't trying to eradicate privately owned galleries. They're just offering a new pricing structure to the artists. One thing that is complicated by the internet is that many galleries make the artists sign an exclusive contract within a certain geographic area. Not sure how we could use that one on the internet. Maybe the one month exclusive, or something similar, would take care of that issue. It changes the exclusivity from geography to time. Also, complicated by the internet is that in a geographic setting, competition makes the pie larger not smaller. I use Santa Fe as an example because I know the community. People flock to Santa Fe to buy art. More galleries open, and more people flock to Santa Fe to buy more art. There have been some gallery closings this last year, but not as many as I expected. These were probably under funded and didn't expand their marketing strategies to make up for the shortfall in income due to the recession. That's just a guess on my part.

Let's not let all of the frustrations we feel toward the traditional agencies at the moment make us hostile and cloud our judgment.   My attitude is that they own the businesses. They have the right to set their own standards. If I don't like it I should stop uploading to those sites that have business practices that I can't work with or work to find a successful alternative. Unfortunately, I don't know enough about business to know if we're being totally screwed financially by these sites or not. Look at the banking crisis here in the US. Are the successful agencies making larger profits at our expense, or are they struggling to maintain some sort of profit margin during a recession? I don't know, but this last year has made me cynical about business in general.

While still spotty, the economic news coming out of the US is getting better. This might be a great time to start planning for the eventual up turn in business. It's sort of like the buy low and sell high rule. Let's hope things have bottomed out and are really starting up. However, if the current recession hadn't happened, we'd all still be happy working and uploading. We'd never have examined what was happening with our work at the established agencies. At the very least, this is a good time to examine what's really going on with our sales.


Spoken like a true trooper who knows the business. I will second this, if I might !
So well written and objectively. I like to repeat what Pat said,  "We're not trying to make traditional microstock go away, we're just trying to find a successful alternative that will give the photographers and illustrators a larger percentage of sales."

The more I see insertions like this by Pat, the more I will be interested for dialogue.

donding

  • Think before you speak
« Reply #149 on: May 05, 2009, 12:12 »
0
Warren exactly because you are doubtful means if you are won over by the idea, you could become one of it's greatest advocates.. plus the more people say something can't be done, the more we have to come up with ideas of why it will, and how to make it different.. everyone's opinion counts whether good or bad..

And anyone outright slamming the idea, just take that to drive the idea further, prove them all wrong.. work for me in business anyway, always has, I want more people to tell me I can't do something because it makes me even more determined to do it!!

Doubtful???  Are we reading the same words?  I was offering an idea, not doubting an idea? 
I read the same recommendation in several other posts.  It was praised.  Are we speaking the same language? ???


 

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