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Author Topic: Coronavirus ?  (Read 12794 times)

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« Reply #175 on: March 27, 2020, 02:52 »
+2
you can thank American #fakenews media for Trump's slow reaction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKq8UYYQTYA&

You can thank Donald Trump for Trump's slow reaction... he's the biggest source of fake news on the planet! Sorry, but if it's come out of his mouth, then it's more likely to be false than it is true.


When a Trump stopped flights from China, Biden made it clear that the move was racist and xenophobic. Thats all you need to know about how Biden would have addressed the crisis. Would we now 10x or 100x the number of deaths. A scary thought.

no way near as scary as having a bigoted, ignorant narcisist in 'charge'

if Biden were in charge we would still have a fully staffed NIH, CDC and FEMA, ready to handle a pandemic
 
if Biden were in charge he would not have disbanded the working group Obama specifically set up to handle pandemics

if Biden were in charge we would have re-acted to the Wuhan outbreak by increasing supplies and testing, just in case

if Biden were in charge he would not 'invoke' the Defense Production Act as window dressing, but would actually USE the Act to compel production of needed medical supplies

if Biden were in charge  he would not have spent months denying the pandemic existed, and THEN claim he was the first and only one to have predicted the pandemic

if Biden were in charge he would not have ignored the recommendations of a war-game-style simulation*** of a pandemic conducted in summer 2019

for extra credit - guess who did NONE of these things?

===============
*** "A simulation called Crimson Contagion, organized by a Trump-appointed assistant secretary at the Department of Health and Human Services from January to August in 2019, envisioned a respiratory virus beginning in China and infecting 110 million Americans, hospitalizing 7.7 million and killing 586,000. At least a dozen agencies, and another dozen states, were involved in the war-game-style exercise. A draft of the secret after-action report from October, first published Thursday by the New York Times, emphasized challenges related to coordination and highlighted friction between HHS and the Federal Emergency Management Agency." WA Post

You mean that Biden, which disappeared when crap hit the fan? Like a p.u.s.s.y. ::) Even Sanders is still active.


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« Reply #176 on: March 27, 2020, 03:23 »
+1
Just like Trump disappeared during the 2009 swine flu outbreak?

« Reply #177 on: March 27, 2020, 05:22 »
+3
Just like Trump disappeared during the 2009 swine flu outbreak?

Did he run for President at that time?

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« Reply #178 on: March 27, 2020, 05:40 »
+2
And what could he have done about the situation even if he was running, that's my point. I guess that's what you're getting at. Biden is essentially a glorified member of the public at the moment, whereas Bernie is a US Senator... of course he's going to be in the thick of things. Unless you think he's actually just disappeared, when he hasn't... he's done multiple interviews of late, and has a town hall with CNN tonight.

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #179 on: March 27, 2020, 06:45 »
+2
Meanwhile, Boris  has tested positive
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52060791

« Reply #180 on: March 27, 2020, 07:03 »
0
... in the real World.

« Reply #181 on: March 27, 2020, 12:09 »
+2
I have definitely become. I am a right-wing radical.
My brain only accepts negative things from Hilary and Obama, even if they are a lie. My brain only sees Trump as the savior of the Constitution and the authentic hero that will keep us the first and second amendment tattooed on the brain. Long live USA.

 Good men and women, true Americans, we must punish all the governors who have not fought enough to eradicate the effects of this simple flu, aggravating the consequences for not acting according to the instructions of Trump, who is forced to open the country, despite the fact that some states have some victims due to the mismanagement of modern liberals or those related to the most radical communist left.

In conclusion, as important voices from the country say, there is still no strategic plan to tackle the serious problem of the crisis while continuing to entertain the population with hate propaganda to argue among themselves. the important thing is to silence the voice of the doctors of the hospitals, who ask for a day more help please.

Before, a few days ago I wished you luck, but I don't think you need it. You are saved by the divine hand of the groomed lord.



Actualizado, EDIT

Remember, true patriots, our barbecue on Saturdays is in danger. If POTU says to work, don't be cowards in your houses. The important thing is to maintain the status of the country's great fortunes and multinational health insurance. Let's save the millionaires as true patriots. If Trump says to the street, everyone to work to maintain the welfare of a few.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2020, 12:32 by Tenebroso »

« Reply #182 on: March 27, 2020, 13:21 »
+4
......
Can you imagine a country in the world, where citizens do not believe in the news? Also, freedom of expression. How do I convince my ex-girlfriend that my ideas are based on real information, not on systematic manipulation of bots, trolls, hate, and infiltrated agents from various countries. My information is bad, I believe everything about the movies, and she tells me that if they do not win Trump, they will burn cities for a hidden camera video.


People believe it, that is the problem, which for many makes us laugh, it seems like a horoscope section, it stops being funny, because people think it is a true. And now, whoever stays at home ..... a coward. It is simply something incredible. The level of collective self-suggestion collective autosuggestion* in going to the divine god, compulsive liar, must be studied in the universities.

for many, it's not a matter of belief - they just don't care - as long a trump furthers their right wing goals, the lindsay grahams will continue to support him no matter how incompetent or obscene his policies (today saying NY doesnt really need the ventilators they ask for)

« Reply #183 on: March 27, 2020, 15:21 »
+1






for many, it's not a matter of belief - they just don't care - as long a trump furthers their right wing goals, the lindsay grahams will continue to support him no matter how incompetent or obscene his policies (today saying NY doesnt really need the ventilators they ask for)

Hug
Abrazo amigo, fuerza.


I withdraw from this war. How many good people without information, one of the fundamental rights of man. Good people intoxicated with lies for years. Normal, radicalized people who do not care about an education of minors where they see hate as normal.

A hug to all good Americans and residents.


Especially to Juan Andres, Technical Director of Moderna Therapeutics, and his experimental vaccine. To the virologist Adolfo Garcia Sastre of the Mount Sinai Hospital, and to so many others, and to each woman and man who will fight for this tragedy in the first row and for each one who isolates himself. Solidarity, I don't hate.

I have my own problems, not infect, take care of mine, and try to live without hate, that's why I focus on my territory of peace.


We read each other in the future, in this or in other lives, bye. Hug, just people. Bye.




Shelma1

« Reply #184 on: March 27, 2020, 15:58 »
+4
Meanwhile, Boris  has tested positive
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52060791

What....no herd immunity?

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #185 on: March 27, 2020, 18:19 »
+1
Meanwhile, Boris  has tested positive
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52060791

What....no herd immunity?
He must have been trying to emulate the People's Princess, but at least Diana was making an informed point in showing that AIDS isn't passed on byholding hands. Not sure what his excuse was.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2020/mar/27/i-shook-hands-with-everybody-says-boris-johnson-weeks-before-coronavirus-diagnosis-video

« Reply #186 on: March 27, 2020, 19:08 »
+2
It's funny how people from all over the world criticize their political leaders...if they were right all politicals are morons...the real truth is that the whole world system was unprepared...and i call it capitalism....capitalism system doesn't store resources but eat them all...that's why every states in the world is facing the same problem...lack of resources...medical in this case..

« Reply #187 on: March 27, 2020, 21:08 »
0
It's funny how people from all over the world criticize their political leaders...if they were right all politicals are morons...the real truth is that the whole world system was unprepared...and i call it capitalism....capitalism system doesn't store resources but eat them all...that's why every states in the world is facing the same problem...lack of resources...medical in this case..

And what is your alternative? Communism? Communism where all resources are wasted, generating all sorts of shortages, even during regular times?

Morons in power is our problem. Populist morons in power.

Populist morons like dear Boris, who was shaking hands with infected people to prove how stupid he is.
Or populist morons like dear Donald, who said, for a long time, that everything is a hoax, (instead of getting ready), to prove how stupid he is.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2020, 21:28 by Zero Talent »

« Reply #188 on: March 28, 2020, 02:22 »
0
At home for a lot of days now. I had a flu before the apocalypse and confined myself for 14 days before the lockdown (with fear of the covid, it was starting to spread all around the country). I miss the outdoor or outdoors? Then my country closed.

Take care of yourselves and forget about capitalism or communism, Trump or Biden, Boris or Merkel. No politician is going to save you wherever you are. Most of them are bstards.

A good thing: We are going to see who are our friends. The EU is close to collapse for the greed and lack of solidarity of some countries (Germany, Netherlands, Finland, Austria...). Italy, Spain and France are alone in this war. I hope China will help us.

So... we are not safe and you are not sate and nobody is safe.


« Last Edit: March 28, 2020, 02:42 by trabuco »

« Reply #189 on: March 28, 2020, 02:41 »
+3
It's funny how people from all over the world criticize their political leaders...if they were right all politicals are morons...the real truth is that the whole world system was unprepared...and i call it capitalism....capitalism system doesn't store resources but eat them all...that's why every states in the world is facing the same problem...lack of resources...medical in this case..

And what is your alternative? Communism? Communism where all resources are wasted, generating all sorts of shortages, even during regular times?

Morons in power is our problem. Populist morons in power.

Populist morons like dear Boris, who was shaking hands with infected people to prove how stupid he is.
Or populist morons like dear Donald, who said, for a long time, that everything is a hoax, (instead of getting ready), to prove how stupid he is.
Neither Capitalism nor Communism but a proper role for the state and world organisations to protect us from a virus in the future. Recognition that this needs to be paid for and that some "waste" is an insurance policy. We are all connected by the virus whatever our ideology.

« Reply #190 on: March 28, 2020, 02:48 »
0
https://www.elespanol.com/mundo/europa/20200327/paises-bajos-espana-italia-admiten-covid-19-ucis/477952614_0.html

Quote
EUROPE CORONAVIRUSES
The Netherlands accuses Spain and Italy: "They admit too old people with Covid-19 in the ICUs"
The chief of clinical epidemiology at the Leiden University Medical Center pointed out the "cultural position" that the elderly have in these countries.

Quote

Very different cultures. In this way Frits Rosendaal, head of clinical epidemiology at the Medical Center of the University of Leiden (Netherlands) explains the different states of saturation of hospitals due to the coronavirus that are appreciated when comparing his country with others such as Spain and Italy. And, specifically, it indicates the "cultural position" that the elderly have in these countries.

Rosendaal believes that they should not be taken to hospitals: "In Italy, the capacity of ICUs is managed very differently. They admit people that we would not include because they are too old. The elderly have a very different position in the culture Italian ".






edit

« Reply #191 on: March 28, 2020, 04:58 »
+2
It's funny how people from all over the world criticize their political leaders...if they were right all politicals are morons...the real truth is that the whole world system was unprepared...and i call it capitalism....capitalism system doesn't store resources but eat them all...that's why every states in the world is facing the same problem...lack of resources...medical in this case..

And what is your alternative? Communism? Communism where all resources are wasted, generating all sorts of shortages, even during regular times?

Morons in power is our problem. Populist morons in power.

Populist morons like dear Boris, who was shaking hands with infected people to prove how stupid he is.
Or populist morons like dear Donald, who said, for a long time, that everything is a hoax, (instead of getting ready), to prove how stupid he is.

We need to stop thinking about systems as all or nothing.

A lot of these terms have lost all meaning anyway. Communism is being used to mean anything from state capitalism (where the state employees everyone and owns everything) to a system with mostly free markets with worker owned companies competing  plus nationalised industries where it makes sense (power, rail, healthcare etc.).

Capitalism on the other hand is often used to mean the market (I think not be accident, people have been purposely conflating the two to make it seem like there can't be markets without capitalists fencing off the commons and rent seeking). This makes it hard to to discuss any other system with some free market elements.

Equally left and right have virtually lost all meaning, with right wing populists offering up traditional left wing solutions, just with a sprinkling of xenophobia. Left and right are hundreds of years old labels from France that really don't have a lot of meaning in today's world as far as policy goes. They are often just team names. Look at the way the right wing is obsessed with deficits when Democrats are in but instantly turn on a dime when they get and and blow up the budget.

Apart from extremists no one thinks the government has no role to play and no one thinks the government should control every aspect of peoples lives. Shame people in general want simple solutions when reality is complicated and messy.


« Reply #192 on: March 28, 2020, 08:10 »
+1
It's funny how people from all over the world criticize their political leaders...if they were right all politicals are morons...the real truth is that the whole world system was unprepared...and i call it capitalism....capitalism system doesn't store resources but eat them all...that's why every states in the world is facing the same problem...lack of resources...medical in this case..

And what is your alternative? Communism? Communism where all resources are wasted, generating all sorts of shortages, even during regular times?

Morons in power is our problem. Populist morons in power.

Populist morons like dear Boris, who was shaking hands with infected people to prove how stupid he is.
Or populist morons like dear Donald, who said, for a long time, that everything is a hoax, (instead of getting ready), to prove how stupid he is.
I don't have any alternative,and i don't pretend to be the one who has the solution,i only stated how capitalism works..and i didn't say it's worst than comunism..btw we leave in this system and politics can act only inside this system and stocking resources
for future crisis pandemics or whatever you want it's not allowed by the capitalism nature itself...you can blame all politics are morons but the reality is that if you replace them things won't change because of the system rules...

« Reply #193 on: March 28, 2020, 10:40 »
0
It's funny how people from all over the world criticize their political leaders...if they were right all politicals are morons...the real truth is that the whole world system was unprepared...and i call it capitalism....capitalism system doesn't store resources but eat them all...that's why every states in the world is facing the same problem...lack of resources...medical in this case..

And what is your alternative? Communism? Communism where all resources are wasted, generating all sorts of shortages, even during regular times?

Morons in power is our problem. Populist morons in power.

Populist morons like dear Boris, who was shaking hands with infected people to prove how stupid he is.
Or populist morons like dear Donald, who said, for a long time, that everything is a hoax, (instead of getting ready), to prove how stupid he is.
I don't have any alternative,and i don't pretend to be the one who has the solution,i only stated how capitalism works..and i didn't say it's worst than comunism..btw we leave in this system and politics can act only inside this system and stocking resources
for future crisis pandemics or whatever you want it's not allowed by the capitalism nature itself...you can blame all politics are morons but the reality is that if you replace them things won't change because of the system rules...

Ok then, it sounded like you blamed capitalism for the crisis.
I only want to add that one of the feature of capitalism is a constant adaptation to public demand, through a constant feedback loop. If people will learn something from this crisis, moving forward, we should first elect less morons in power. Secondly, many companies learned the hard way, what it means to play the game on the edge. Companies without reserves will disappear. The rest will learn to get better prepared for such events.

And yes @justanotherphotographer, we are not talking about pure capitalism nor pure communism. Left and right are deprecated classifications. In the real world, there is a whole spectrum of nuances, first on the horizontal axis, ranging from a fully state controlled economy, to a pure free market, but also a full range of options on the vertical axis, ranging from the total absence of government (anarchy), to a single person absolute dictatorship.

My point is addessing both axis: stay on the right side of the economical axis (not far right, mind you), and in the middle of the vertical axis.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2020, 10:53 by Zero Talent »

« Reply #194 on: March 28, 2020, 11:00 »
0

And yes @justanotherphotographer, we are not talking about pure capitalism nor pure communism. Left and right are deprecated classifications. In the real world, there is a whole spectrum of nuances, first on the horizontal axis, ranging for a full state controlled economy, to a pure free market, but also a full range of options on the vertical axis, ranging for the total absence of government (anarchy), to a single person dictatorship.

My point is addessing both axis: stay on the right side of the economical axis (not far right, mind you), and in the middle of the vertical axis.

This is what I mean though, trying to place policy on a political axis with the labels of right and left is falling into the same trap. What does that prescribe in policy terms? Do the policies make sense individually based on real world evidence.

So for example if you are thinking about whether there should be universal healthcare you shouldn't be wondering if it is in line with a "right economical axis", but what works best for constituents based on evidence from around the world.



« Reply #195 on: March 28, 2020, 11:12 »
+2

And yes @justanotherphotographer, we are not talking about pure capitalism nor pure communism. Left and right are deprecated classifications. In the real world, there is a whole spectrum of nuances, first on the horizontal axis, ranging for a full state controlled economy, to a pure free market, but also a full range of options on the vertical axis, ranging for the total absence of government (anarchy), to a single person dictatorship.

My point is addessing both axis: stay on the right side of the economical axis (not far right, mind you), and in the middle of the vertical axis.

This is what I mean though, trying to place policy on a political axis with the labels of right and left is falling into the same trap. What does that prescribe in policy terms? Do the policies make sense individually based on real world evidence.

So for example if you are thinking about whether there should be universal healthcare you shouldn't be wondering if it is in line with a "right economical axis", but what works best for constituents based on evidence from around the world.

Exactly. The real-world evidence shows that authoritarianism and its worst-case scenario, dictatorship, systematically ended up bad for constituents. That's the point I'm making when it comes to the vertical axis.

When it comes to universal health care in particular (and the economical axis in general), I'm with you, even if it is not aligned with the pure free-market concept. In a civilized society, Life and Death should NOT become a market-driven trade-off. But even here, we have many nuances, when it comes to the best way to evolve towards that ideal.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2020, 13:02 by Zero Talent »

« Reply #196 on: March 28, 2020, 11:51 »
+2
It's funny how people from all over the world criticize their political leaders...if they were right all politicals are morons...the real truth is that the whole world system was unprepared...and i call it capitalism....capitalism system doesn't store resources but eat them all...that's why every states in the world is facing the same problem...lack of resources...medical in this case..

And what is your alternative? Communism? Communism where all resources are wasted, generating all sorts of shortages, even during regular times?
...

it's not either/or -- we need a more controlled capitalism - we have govt regs for clean air, clean water, etc, otherwise industry wouldn't take those steps (and it would be counter their interests to do so when their competitors do not)

this is the role of govt in a capitalist society - not to own industry but to see that industry pays the full costs of their environmental actions, to prevent price gouging, ensure labor rights, provide health benefits, minimum wage, etc (in US price of masks has more than quadrupled as trump continues to tell states to get them on the open market rather than have the feds buy & distribute

« Reply #197 on: March 28, 2020, 11:58 »
+1
 
We need to stop thinking about systems as all or nothing.

A lot of these terms have lost all meaning anyway. ...
Equally left and right have virtually lost all meaning, with right wing populists offering up traditional left wing solutions, just with a sprinkling of xenophobia. Left and right are hundreds of years old labels from France that really don't have a lot of meaning in today's world as far as policy goes. They are often just team names. Look at the way the right wing is obsessed with deficits when Democrats are in but instantly turn on a dime when they get and and blow up the budget.

....

that example just shows their hypocrisy, not a failure of terms - left & right still have meaning -- it's essentially the tension between equality & liberty. in the US we used to be able to debate these ideals and form compromises

« Reply #198 on: March 28, 2020, 13:19 »
0
It's funny how people from all over the world criticize their political leaders...if they were right all politicals are morons...the real truth is that the whole world system was unprepared...and i call it capitalism....capitalism system doesn't store resources but eat them all...that's why every states in the world is facing the same problem...lack of resources...medical in this case..

And what is your alternative? Communism? Communism where all resources are wasted, generating all sorts of shortages, even during regular times?
...

it's not either/or -- we need a more controlled capitalism - we have govt regs for clean air, clean water, etc, otherwise industry wouldn't take those steps (and it would be counter their interests to do so when their competitors do not)

That's old thinking.
In this time and age, in the social media age, when all brands are so very much concerned with their image, more than ever, no company can afford to go against what consumers want. Companies are very often ahead of regulations because they understood exactly those concerns coming from consumers.
Moreover, even when bad things happen, regulators are very often oblivious to that. Independent consumer associations, the free press, etc., are most of the time ahead of those bloated bureaucratic governmental bodies. See the VW emission case.
Even more, those regulators are often in bed with the industry, playing favorites with those who pay their bills and bankroll their elections. See the recent Boeing case.

Back on topic, during the early stages of the Covid-19 crisis, too much governmental control prevented the Covid tests manufactured abroad to be imported in the US, because those tests, despite being proven superior, were not FDA approved. So... too much regulation might have led to deaths when preventable cases went untested and unnoticed (see attached).
And the shortage of tests in the US continues even today, despite the daily lies from our Dear Leader and God-Sent Savior.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2020, 14:25 by Zero Talent »

« Reply #199 on: March 28, 2020, 13:39 »
+2
That's old thinking.
In this time and age, in the social media age, when all brands are so very much concerned with their image, more than ever, no company can afford to go against what consumers want. Companies are very often ahead of regulations because they understood exactly those concerns coming from consumers.
Moreover, even when bad things happen, regulators are very often oblivious to that. Independent consumer associations, the free press, etc., are most of the time ahead of those bloated bureaucratic governmental bodies. See the VW emission case.
Even more, those regulators are often in bed with the industry, playing favorites with those who pay their bills and bankroll their elections. See the recent Boeing case.

During the early stages of the Covid-19 crisis, too much governmental control has prevented the Covid tests manufactured abroad to be imported in the US, because those tests, despite being proven superior, were not FDA approved. So... too much regulation might have led to deaths when preventable cases went untested and unnoticed. And the shortage of tests in the US continues even today, despite the daily lies from our dear leader and God sent savior.

Sorry but this just isn't true. Look at climate change. Oil companies have been spending hundreds of millions of dollars for decades to obscure facts and muddy the waters so just enough consumers are just confused enough to think there is still controversy over the science. This is while the companies  own scientists have been at the forefront of researching the truth behind closed doors and burying it. It's much cheaper to spend a few million hoodwinking a chunk of the public than to lose the billions that would come if there was consensus.

Consumers often either don't have a choice or the time to research these things, and journalists have never been squeezed more than today. Only governments have the power to reign in massive corporations.


 

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