MicrostockGroup

Microstock Photography Forum - General => General Stock Discussion => Topic started by: jonbull on March 09, 2020, 09:28

Title: Coronavirus ?
Post by: jonbull on March 09, 2020, 09:28
down 80% compared to last march...all around agency sales....don't know if it's coronavirus or my portfolio have been switched completely off...in adobe i have similar position as always but down 90% compared to february first 10 days....
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Ukko on March 09, 2020, 10:39
Same here. And the opportunity to take advantage of this situation is also pretty much gone. Try to search "Coronavirus" on SS and it brings up more than 104,000 results. All the new images will be buried deep into their huge library of images and never be found by a search. Well, I'll just put my mask back on and wait for the brighter days to arrive.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: cobalt on March 09, 2020, 10:41
So far I see no difference in sales and pond5 started to sell videos again.

I think when the virus fully hits most of Europe and the US, maybe around Mai - August, we will all see a major downturn in stock.

When companies simply have to close for a few weeks, because too many of their employees are in quarantine or even in hospital.

Also when people stop going to restaurants, Walt Disney closes, the Olympics are cancelled...life will become very quiet jntil they have a treatment. But that will take a few more months.

Until then...maybe invest in virus related images...
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: georgep7 on March 09, 2020, 10:54
Quote
life will become very quiet

outdoors.

but indoors will be active as usual.
From bloggers to youtubers, from social to advertising
to whatever job can be done remotely from home,

electronic media will work as normal if not extra time.

(perhaps)
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: jjneff on March 09, 2020, 12:49
On the other hand since people can leave and still have work they will buy stock instead of shooting their own. Could be a boon for us.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: cobalt on March 09, 2020, 13:23
Maybe, but the fact is that all kinds of projects will be postponed, budgets will be cut or suspended. There is a huge recession coming.

But still, we are luckier than most. I have tons of files on my hard drives, if I cannot really travel or go out, I can easily spend a whole year at home processing all the stuff I haven‘t uploaded and also upload to places that have very little content.

Just my stock market income...won‘t really be able to rely on that.

So better to save, build up cash...I am looking at all coming expenses to see what can be cut or delayed.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: whosvegas on March 10, 2020, 01:39
In the last 2 or 3 weeks my sales are also ging down
Last month was my (photo) BME on Shutterstock and a very good month on AS
I guess, this month will be not so good

Let's hope Corona will be over soon and there will be no worldwide recession
And try to be happy with every single sale (nice to know that someone use your work) :)
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: georgep7 on March 10, 2020, 02:27
I read in news that Coronavirus is worse "spread" because of the social media and forums.
Now I tend to agree with this opinion.

Yes it is dangerous. Yes we have to take precautions.

But I bet for sure that ports with medical related content and editorials around the matter sell good.

Don't be pessimistic. I didn't come here when NFL was live and some selled good to say,
oh, market is dead!  I have no no sales on American football.

 ::)
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Brasilnut on March 10, 2020, 03:12
Same here. And the opportunity to take advantage of this situation is also pretty much gone. Try to search "Coronavirus" on SS and it brings up more than 104,000 results. All the new images will be buried deep into their huge library of images and never be found by a search. Well, I'll just put my mask back on and wait for the brighter days to arrive.

My composites are selling regularly and they are quite average.

Also editorials of people wearing surgical masks out and about.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: jjneff on March 10, 2020, 11:57
This is so crazy, now I can't tell you the future but as of now you stand a better chance of dying of heart disease, car accident, weather related injuries, cancer and the list goes on. This is still a very minor virus at this point, you still have more to fear from the flu!!
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: jonbull on March 10, 2020, 12:06
This is so crazy, now I can't tell you the future but as of now you stand a better chance of dying of heart disease, car accident, weather related injuries, cancer and the list goes on. This is still a very minor virus at this point, you still have more to fear from the flu!!

minor virus?

7% mortality...is minor? good luck
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: ShadySue on March 10, 2020, 12:17
This is so crazy, now I can't tell you the future but as of now you stand a better chance of dying of heart disease, car accident, weather related injuries, cancer and the list goes on. This is still a very minor virus at this point, you still have more to fear from the flu!!

minor virus?

7% mortality...is minor? good luck

What's your source for that figure?


"What is the mortality rate of the new coronavirus?
It is probably about or a bit less than 1%. Much higher figures have been flying about, but the chief medical officer, Chris Whitty, is one of those who believes it will prove to be 1% or lower. The World Health Organization’s director general, Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, talked of 3.4%, but his figure was calculated by dividing the number of deaths by the number of officially confirmed cases. We know there are many more mild cases that do not get to hospital and are not being counted, which would bring the mortality rate significantly down.
Deaths are highest in the elderly, with very low rates among younger people, although medical staff who treat patients and get exposed to a lot of virus are thought to be more at risk. But even among the over-80s, 90% will recover."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/10/coronavirus-facts-mortality-rate-is-there-cure (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/10/coronavirus-facts-mortality-rate-is-there-cure)

also see: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51674743 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51674743)
and https://abcnews.go.com/Health/early-mortality-rates-covid-19-misleading-experts/story?id=69477312 (https://abcnews.go.com/Health/early-mortality-rates-covid-19-misleading-experts/story?id=69477312)
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: jonbull on March 10, 2020, 12:20
This is so crazy, now I can't tell you the future but as of now you stand a better chance of dying of heart disease, car accident, weather related injuries, cancer and the list goes on. This is still a very minor virus at this point, you still have more to fear from the flu!!

minor virus?

7% mortality...is minor? good luck

What's your source for that figure?
"What is the mortality rate of the new coronavirus?

It is probably about or a bit less than 1%. Much higher figures have been flying about, but the chief medical officer, Chris Whitty, is one of those who believes it will prove to be 1% or lower. The World Health Organization’s director general, Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, talked of 3.4%, but his figure was calculated by dividing the number of deaths by the number of officially confirmed cases. We know there are many more mild cases that do not get to hospital and are not being counted, which would bring the mortality rate significantly down.

Deaths are highest in the elderly, with very low rates among younger people, although medical staff who treat patients and get exposed to a lot of virus are thought to be more at risk. But even among the over-80s, 90% will recover."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/10/coronavirus-facts-mortality-rate-is-there-cure (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/10/coronavirus-facts-mortality-rate-is-there-cure)

also see: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51674743 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51674743)
and https://abcnews.go.com/Health/early-mortality-rates-covid-19-misleading-experts/story?id=69477312 (https://abcnews.go.com/Health/early-mortality-rates-covid-19-misleading-experts/story?id=69477312)

italy where i live

7500 infecte 500 death,....near 10 %...
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: jonbull on March 10, 2020, 12:22
3 4 5 6 % doesn't change a lot,it's super higher % of death.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: jonbull on March 10, 2020, 12:27
the big problem is not death toll...the problem is that normal flu is times less strong than this...most people even younger don't die but most needs treatment like artificial respiratory machine and intense therapyhy...is the flu spreads like a pandemic simply there will be too people that simply couldn't be saved because lack of intensive therapy bed in hospital...in italy already is clear that in case the situation will deteriorate old people will be sacrificed for younger, is not official but there will be nothing to do cause simply there will be no bed no respiratory machine bo anesthetist medic able to take care of all the people...that' why we cannot more go out of home....because is not about now is the fear to have millions of cases in 2 months, and the seath toll % will rise up because there will be no chance to hospitalize all the cases.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: jonbull on March 10, 2020, 12:30
This is so crazy, now I can't tell you the future but as of now you stand a better chance of dying of heart disease, car accident, weather related injuries, cancer and the list goes on. This is still a very minor virus at this point, you still have more to fear from the flu!!


flu hot millions of people with mortality near 0,05 % probably less...is not comparable at all..if in china didn't book all life and close people at home they would have probably millions of cars with hundreds thousand death...there are people of 40 years treated in intensive therapy in italy with artificial respiratory....
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: ShadySue on March 10, 2020, 12:31
This is so crazy, now I can't tell you the future but as of now you stand a better chance of dying of heart disease, car accident, weather related injuries, cancer and the list goes on. This is still a very minor virus at this point, you still have more to fear from the flu!!

minor virus?

7% mortality...is minor? good luck

What's your source for that figure?
"What is the mortality rate of the new coronavirus?

It is probably about or a bit less than 1%. Much higher figures have been flying about, but the chief medical officer, Chris Whitty, is one of those who believes it will prove to be 1% or lower. The World Health Organization’s director general, Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, talked of 3.4%, but his figure was calculated by dividing the number of deaths by the number of officially confirmed cases. We know there are many more mild cases that do not get to hospital and are not being counted, which would bring the mortality rate significantly down.

Deaths are highest in the elderly, with very low rates among younger people, although medical staff who treat patients and get exposed to a lot of virus are thought to be more at risk. But even among the over-80s, 90% will recover."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/10/coronavirus-facts-mortality-rate-is-there-cure (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/10/coronavirus-facts-mortality-rate-is-there-cure)

also see: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51674743 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51674743)
and https://abcnews.go.com/Health/early-mortality-rates-covid-19-misleading-experts/story?id=69477312 (https://abcnews.go.com/Health/early-mortality-rates-covid-19-misleading-experts/story?id=69477312)

italy where i live

7500 infecte 500 death,....near 10 %...

They seem to be looking into why the death rate in Italy is so high: seems you have an aging population, but so do many other countries (e.g. us). 1% or 50% is no consolation if someone you know has died, I know.

Some more fact(?)-checking:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/10/can-face-mask-stop-coronavirus-covid-19-facts-checked (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/10/can-face-mask-stop-coronavirus-covid-19-facts-checked)
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: jonbull on March 10, 2020, 12:36
This is so crazy, now I can't tell you the future but as of now you stand a better chance of dying of heart disease, car accident, weather related injuries, cancer and the list goes on. This is still a very minor virus at this point, you still have more to fear from the flu!!

minor virus?

7% mortality...is minor? good luck

What's your source for that figure?
"What is the mortality rate of the new coronavirus?

It is probably about or a bit less than 1%. Much higher figures have been flying about, but the chief medical officer, Chris Whitty, is one of those who believes it will prove to be 1% or lower. The World Health Organization’s director general, Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, talked of 3.4%, but his figure was calculated by dividing the number of deaths by the number of officially confirmed cases. We know there are many more mild cases that do not get to hospital and are not being counted, which would bring the mortality rate significantly down.

Deaths are highest in the elderly, with very low rates among younger people, although medical staff who treat patients and get exposed to a lot of virus are thought to be more at risk. But even among the over-80s, 90% will recover."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/10/coronavirus-facts-mortality-rate-is-there-cure (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/10/coronavirus-facts-mortality-rate-is-there-cure)

also see: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51674743 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51674743)
and https://abcnews.go.com/Health/early-mortality-rates-covid-19-misleading-experts/story?id=69477312 (https://abcnews.go.com/Health/early-mortality-rates-covid-19-misleading-experts/story?id=69477312)

italy where i live

7500 infecte 500 death,....near 10 %...

They seem to be looking into why the death rate in Italy is so high: seems you have an aging population, but so do many other countries (e.g. us). 1% or 50% is no consolation if someone you know has died, I know.

Some more fact(?)-checking:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/10/can-face-mask-stop-coronavirus-covid-19-facts-checked (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/10/can-face-mask-stop-coronavirus-covid-19-facts-checked)

aging for sure but the problem is we didn't shut down everything like china the first week of virus....nsame error are doing all country included usa....next week will be the turn of usa to have thousand of people infected.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: jonbull on March 10, 2020, 12:38
in addiction most country don't do control like italy...in usa check of coronavirus cost 3000 dollar...in italy is free and soon as country will check their people the situation will be the same as in italy....in germany they are hiding stuff like in france but soon everything will be shut down...in usa too,.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: jonbull on March 10, 2020, 12:43
anyway for me sales have disappeared from ione day to another...adobe is completely zero for the last 5 days...ss number not much less but then only subs and some odd...maybe it's me but i doubt...most offices in europe are closing, is not a case that seems mostly sales in morning early or late at night.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: ShadySue on March 10, 2020, 12:47
anyway for me sales have disappeared from ione day to another...adobe is completely zero for the last 5 days...ss number not much less but then only subs and some odd...maybe it's me but i doubt...most offices in europe are closing, is not a case that seems mostly sales in morning early or late at night.
On iS, my ytd 'increments' are averaging their usual-for-nowadays rate so far (but of course I won't know the rpd or total earned in March for another six weeks ...  ::) )
On Alamy I have no sales this month, but Jan and Feb were poor and much poorer: I think they're focussing more on Live News than general stock. Or whatever.  ::)
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Hoodie Ninja on March 10, 2020, 13:16
My stocks are doing normal, if not a little better. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: MotionDesign on March 10, 2020, 14:49
My stocks are doing normal, if not a little better.

Me too. If this is the trend, march will be my MBE, but it's too early to predict that.
I live in Italy...North Italy, you know, ground zero...but i'm optimistic, so please don't panic and act like wise people.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: BalkanskiMacak on March 10, 2020, 18:58
So, in terms of results, it's normal for the moment, even a bit better than usual. If recession is coming, the drop won't be immediate, but it's a real threat on mid term.

In the meantime, Coronavirus boosts some topics in particular, explaining the increase in revenue. if you're shooting editorial, it's the moment to put for sales pictures of hospitals (the shots can be used when cases will be spotted in the precise location) and anything related to health, public transportation, Italy, Iran (this is working veeeery well), and anything that could be potentially related to the Covid-19 prevention and restrictions that could happen (schools that could be closed, public places, law enforcement, ambulances, etc.). Even things that are not directly related sell: I got a few shots I took a long time ago of mold removal suits, that are labled this way, but that look a bit like hazmat suits that are selling at the moment.

it may sound like a buzzard's business, but that's the way editorial works.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: SpaceStockFootage on March 10, 2020, 23:17
This is so crazy, now I can't tell you the future but as of now you stand a better chance of dying of heart disease, car accident, weather related injuries, cancer and the list goes on. This is still a very minor virus at this point, you still have more to fear from the flu!!

The flu has been around for thousands of years and has spread to every corner of the world... this strain of Coronavirus hasn't. Yet. It's estimate that 700m to 1.4bn people got infected with swine flu in 2009. If the same amount of people get infected with Covid-19, and the mortality rate is 3.4%, then that means 24m to 48m are going to die before this is over... and it's still in the millions if it is 1%. Although panic isn't the best approach, I think it's a good idea to be concerned.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: cobalt on March 11, 2020, 01:38
My friends in Italy have been in lockdown for three weeks already. They have not been hit themselves, but describe dramatic situations.

It is not just the deaths, 15% need to be treated in the icu and need machines to help them to breathe.

It has completly overwhelmed the medical system and more and more doctors and nurses are falling ill.

They have a pharmacy, so they are used to all kinds of flu or other seasonal illnesses. Corona is absolutely nothing like it.

So people really should do everything to cut social transmission.

Here is someone reporting from Italy:

https://www.facebook.com/cristina.higgins.7/posts/10157623212885189 (https://www.facebook.com/cristina.higgins.7/posts/10157623212885189)

Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: georgep7 on March 11, 2020, 02:06

Perhaps if we can be taught a money-bringing lesson from coronavirous as contributors it may be this:

we either will continue to shoot and add another batch of "people wearing surgical masks" to some thousand approved ones in all libraries and wait for those $0,20

either we will research buy and learn 3D software and be capable on how to create a virus or a futuristic virus scene.

(stock)dead simple ain't it?
 ::)
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: leremy on March 11, 2020, 09:21
Many people still argue that flu and other diseases kill more and we shouldn't worry about Covid-19. I DISAGREE TOTALLY. You have to understand, Covid-19 is just started... and it is only 3-4 months old... other diseases have been there since a long time ago, and many are not contagious. Even with the panic and fear throughout the world, the virus is still peaking its way. Imagine if nobody care and scare, how much more will the virus infects? This is no joke. Being fearful (not panic) is the only way to contain the virus. People simply have to stop going to the crowd, vacation, party, gym, wash their hands 30 times a day, and start working at home for 2 months straight. Economy will be down, but this seems to be the only way.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: mino216 on March 11, 2020, 09:59

The flu has been around for thousands of years and has spread to every corner of the world... this strain of Coronavirus hasn't. Yet. It's estimate that 700m to 1.4bn people got infected with swine flu in 2009. If the same amount of people get infected with Covid-19, and the mortality rate is 3.4%, then that means 24m to 48m are going to die before this is over... and it's still in the millions if it is 1%. Although panic isn't the best approach, I think it's a good idea to be concerned.

We have done a small research with my students and created a chart in Excel comparing infections, deaths and mortality rate of bird flu, MERS, SARS, COVID-19 and swine flu. COVID-19 is (so far) absolutely nothing special and nicely fits to mathematical and statistical properties of these diseases. Higher the mortality rate, smaller the number of infections and total deaths. But the number of deaths is increasing with the decreasing the mortality rate (the number of infections is rising faster than the mortality is decreasing - if the mortality is 1000x smaller, the number of infections can be for example 100000x higher totally causing more deaths - swine flu was a very mild one which killed hundreds of thousands people whereas bird flu was almost sentence of death but it has totally killed less than 500 people). COVID-19 is one of the less severe diseases.

In the terms of revenue at microstock, I can see mild drop at AS, brutal at 123RF. Otherwise, it is pretty stable.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: mj007 on March 11, 2020, 10:26
One item they have found to be true about this virus. China's rate of smokers is four to one over western countries. Italy has a high rate of smokers in that country. Korea and Japan also has a much higher population of smokers than America. No tobacco dose not cause this virus but it may have a huge effect on the population recovering from the virus. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: obj owl on March 11, 2020, 11:36
One item they have found to be true about this virus. China's rate of smokers is four to one over western countries. Italy has a high rate of smokers in that country. Korea and Japan also has a much higher population of smokers than America. No tobacco dose not cause this virus but it may have a huge effect on the population recovering from the virus.

Conversely, there is a lot lower obesity (another high risk factor) in those countries, whereas western countries it is at epidemic proportions in ageing populations.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: trek on March 11, 2020, 12:01
The travel industry is spiraling into economic depression.  I believe that will deeply impact sales of travel oriented material.  Most of my portfolio is travel related.  So, I'm lowering my lowered expectations even lower...
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: jonbull on March 11, 2020, 12:24
shuttersubs....adobe down practically 95% from last week.this is the end:)...time to sell equipment before every contributor do the same and market is flooded by tons of camera :)
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: leaf on March 11, 2020, 13:02
This is so crazy, now I can't tell you the future but as of now you stand a better chance of dying of heart disease, car accident, weather related injuries, cancer and the list goes on. This is still a very minor virus at this point, you still have more to fear from the flu!!

minor virus?

7% mortality...is minor? good luck

What's your source for that figure?


"What is the mortality rate of the new coronavirus?
It is probably about or a bit less than 1%. Much higher figures have been flying about, but the chief medical officer, Chris Whitty, is one of those who believes it will prove to be 1% or lower. The World Health Organization’s director general, Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, talked of 3.4%, but his figure was calculated by dividing the number of deaths by the number of officially confirmed cases. We know there are many more mild cases that do not get to hospital and are not being counted, which would bring the mortality rate significantly down.
Deaths are highest in the elderly, with very low rates among younger people, although medical staff who treat patients and get exposed to a lot of virus are thought to be more at risk. But even among the over-80s, 90% will recover."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/10/coronavirus-facts-mortality-rate-is-there-cure (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/10/coronavirus-facts-mortality-rate-is-there-cure)

also see: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51674743 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51674743)
and https://abcnews.go.com/Health/early-mortality-rates-covid-19-misleading-experts/story?id=69477312 (https://abcnews.go.com/Health/early-mortality-rates-covid-19-misleading-experts/story?id=69477312)

the current death rate is 6%
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/)

obviously - The rate is going down over time, but it is still very high.  Mostly for elderly or otherwise sick people.  The reason we need to help stop the spread of the virus is so that more elderly, or people with diabetes etc. don't get it.  Also it's important to slow down the spread of the virus so the hospitals don't get overloaded.   it's better if the 100.000 people that are seriously infected in your country go to the hospital over a years time as apposed to all next week.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: leaf on March 11, 2020, 18:08
This is so crazy, now I can't tell you the future but as of now you stand a better chance of dying of heart disease, car accident, weather related injuries, cancer and the list goes on. This is still a very minor virus at this point, you still have more to fear from the flu!!

minor virus?

7% mortality...is minor? good luck

What's your source for that figure?


"What is the mortality rate of the new coronavirus?
It is probably about or a bit less than 1%. Much higher figures have been flying about, but the chief medical officer, Chris Whitty, is one of those who believes it will prove to be 1% or lower. The World Health Organization’s director general, Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, talked of 3.4%, but his figure was calculated by dividing the number of deaths by the number of officially confirmed cases. We know there are many more mild cases that do not get to hospital and are not being counted, which would bring the mortality rate significantly down.
Deaths are highest in the elderly, with very low rates among younger people, although medical staff who treat patients and get exposed to a lot of virus are thought to be more at risk. But even among the over-80s, 90% will recover."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/10/coronavirus-facts-mortality-rate-is-there-cure (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/10/coronavirus-facts-mortality-rate-is-there-cure)

also see: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51674743 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51674743)
and https://abcnews.go.com/Health/early-mortality-rates-covid-19-misleading-experts/story?id=69477312 (https://abcnews.go.com/Health/early-mortality-rates-covid-19-misleading-experts/story?id=69477312)

the current death rate is 6%
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/)

obviously - The rate is going down over time, but it is still very high.  Mostly for elderly or otherwise sick people.  The reason we need to help stop the spread of the virus is so that more elderly, or people with diabetes etc. don't get it.  Also it's important to slow down the spread of the virus so the hospitals don't get overloaded.   it's better if the 100.000 people that are seriously infected in your country go to the hospital over a years time as apposed to all next week.

Around 1 out of every 6 people who gets COVID-19 becomes seriously ill and develops difficulty breathing. Older people, and those with underlying medical problems like high blood pressure, heart problems or diabetes, are more likely to develop serious illness
https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-coronaviruses (https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-coronaviruses)
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: SpaceStockFootage on March 11, 2020, 21:47
It is 6% on closed cases, but the mortality rate is calculated on open and closed cases, so it's 3.66% currently. If they just calculated it using closed cases, and only one person had died but nobody had yet recovered... the mortality rate would be 100%.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Lizard on March 11, 2020, 22:11
Mortality can also go way higher if the thing spreads more cause hospitals will lack materials starting from respirators which are saving a lot of harder cases.

Some countries lacking respirators are desperately trying to order them and demand is way higher than production rate a richer countries have already forbidden export.

There is also a fact that people are dying indirectly, an Italian doctor said today that in some hospitals they are not even looking at people that come with heart attacks, not performing any surgeries  at all cause operation rooms have been turned into isolated patients rooms because lack of space. If it spreads more people with not even get basic help for any issue anymore and it that case mortality can go waaay up then now while they still got resources in material and medical staff which is already started to be short.

And we are talking about richest Italian region with one of the better health-care systems in Europe. Some less rich countries have less than 200 respirators in whole country.

   
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Brasilnut on March 12, 2020, 03:51
Just published a blog post:

https://brutallyhonestmicrostock.com/2020/03/12/coronavirus-covid-19-news-photos/
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Evaristo tenscadisto on March 12, 2020, 03:58
Hi, just some useful info about this virus and stats:

https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca

Although we dont have so manny cases yet in my country (Portugal) we are already starting mitigation phase. Last 24h there was rush in some supermarkets ending with shelves completely empty. There is no need for that since is a panic behaviour and not lack of food but people will start to do it.

Some simple steps like wash hands frequently, avoid close contact and gatherings will help to fight the spread. This is what was told by our DGS (general health directorate). 
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Pauws99 on March 12, 2020, 05:49
Yes at "this point" in Global terms its minor. The way exponential growth in infections works though we can be pretty sure sitting back and doing nothing will ensure it wouldn't be minor pretty soon.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Noedelhap on March 12, 2020, 08:36
On the other hand since people can leave and still have work they will buy stock instead of shooting their own. Could be a boon for us.

No way, the entire global economy will be affected. Projects will be canceled in almost every industry, budgets will be cut, companies will lose business, employees will work fewer hours...I think stock sales will suffer badly because production goes down across the globe.

And this is only the beginning. Even though governments worldwide are doing everything they can to contain or at the least slow down the spreading of the virus, the economy will hit a recession regardless.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Pauws99 on March 12, 2020, 08:59
I think the scale of the effect on a modern global economy is just beginning to dawn on people. Just in Time supply chains and the reliance on many economies on Tourism are going to cause enormous issues.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: obj owl on March 12, 2020, 09:23
Too early to know the medium/long term effect.  China are now getting essential workers back just over 100 days after the first case.  No knowing if they will have a second wave of infections as predicted by some or they could return to normal in another 100 days.  Then again if it's true that there are more than one strain and it mutates freely it could run around the world a number of times.

Would it be a good idea to get it early while they still have some respirators available?  Looks like they are going for a cull in the UK.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: douglas on March 13, 2020, 15:07
It's wonderful how everyone from lawyer to photographer is now an expert epidemiologist. I have no idea what the best strategy for virus containment/herd immunity/healthcare impact spread is but I know if travel bookings are collapsing, airlines and booking companies are going to be advertising more and will buy pictures. What should we learn? All those companies who said their workers could not work from home now have employees working at home, which means the disabled people they didn't want to hire could also have been working from home. Oh, and public healthcare is maybe quite important, USA?
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: ShadySue on March 13, 2020, 18:55
This doctor is a friend of a former pupil who is now a surgical consultant in a different sphere; she endorses all he says. Jump ahead to about 0.30 for the start of the serious stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_Vau7NDjQw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_Vau7NDjQw)
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Pauws99 on March 14, 2020, 03:12
It's wonderful how everyone from lawyer to photographer is now an expert epidemiologist. I have no idea what the best strategy for virus containment/herd immunity/healthcare impact spread is but I know if travel bookings are collapsing, airlines and booking companies are going to be advertising more and will buy pictures. What should we learn? All those companies who said their workers could not work from home now have employees working at home, which means the disabled people they didn't want to hire could also have been working from home. Oh, and public healthcare is maybe quite important, USA?
  Where are airlines and travel companies going get this money to advertise non existent flights and holidays from? I expect some major company failures and in the short term 2-3 years a contraction in travel. I have a cruise booked. The company have just ordered their ships to come home till 24 April. They are a small player, they bought two new ships only last year I would guess on borrowed money. I wouldn't bet on them ever sailing again. Hope I'm wrong.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Tenebroso on March 14, 2020, 11:44
Politics, economy, markets, is for later. The sooner you understand the sooner you think about not putting the person in front at risk. Now, nothing else matters but stopping the contagion. In a few days, what you know, your routine will disappear, your life will not be the same. It will be seen if there are cruises and sales when the epidemic expires, but now, don't infect anyone is the goal, not infect anyone. Do it for others. Each must be responsible for not infecting the rest.


Tenebroso
From Spain.






Edited to wish everyone luck. Lots, lots, lots of luck.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: obj owl on March 14, 2020, 12:09
Politics, economy, markets, is for later. The sooner you understand the sooner you think about not putting the person in front at risk. Now, nothing else matters but stopping the contagion. In a few days, what you know, your routine will disappear, your life will not be the same. It will be seen if there are cruises and sales when the epidemic expires, but now, don't infect anyone is the goal, not infect anyone. Do it for others. Each must be responsible for not infecting the rest.


Tenebroso
From Spain.






Edited to wish everyone luck. Lots, lots, lots of luck.

If only that was true for all of us, here we are expected to acquire immunity by catching it. I don't understand why the rest of the world had not isolated us yet.

Good luck to you also,

Objowl
UK
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: suz7 on March 14, 2020, 17:00
Also in lockdown in Spain, it's bonkers how serious it's suddenly got. No going out unless completely necessary.
Just got to sit it out and try to slow it down as much as poss for the health services to be able to cope. And put up with a bored teenager in house ::)
I hope UK closes schools etc down soon. In the beginning I thought they were right about waiting but now I think they need to and quickly.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: ShadySue on March 14, 2020, 17:19
Also in lockdown in Spain, it's bonkers how serious it's suddenly got. No going out unless completely necessary.
Just got to sit it out and try to slow it down as much as poss for the health services to be able to cope. And put up with a bored teenager in house ::)
I hope UK closes schools etc down soon. In the beginning I thought they were right about waiting but now I think they need to and quickly.
I don't have the option of staying in, I share the care of my chairbound mother with my sister. I live c40 miles away (two trains and a bus in each direction), she lives c25 miles away. Although she has carers going in four times a day, we are really worried about what will happen if there's a lockdown - the carers don't do e.g. food shopping, washing (of which there is a full load, almost every day), emptying bins etc.
Of course, we don't want to catch the disease and spread it to her, or anyone else, during the incubation period, . Footbumps, no hugs, and blown kisses.

If they close down schools etc, who will look after the children of health / care workers? Some may live near family who are able and willing to help, some may not. So do they stay off their vital work to look after their kids, or informally make arrangements for them to be looked after in groups?
I'm glad I'm not making these decisions. I think there is a case for the concept of 'herd immunity' to prevent a major re-infection next winter, and for slowing down the virus so that the health services can cope with the most vulnerable. But there are so many factors to consider, and the scientists are still learning how this virus behaves. And I am not a scientist.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: sharpshot on March 14, 2020, 18:29
Also in lockdown in Spain, it's bonkers how serious it's suddenly got. No going out unless completely necessary.
Just got to sit it out and try to slow it down as much as poss for the health services to be able to cope. And put up with a bored teenager in house ::)
I hope UK closes schools etc down soon. In the beginning I thought they were right about waiting but now I think they need to and quickly.
I don't have the option of staying in, I share the care of my chairbound mother with my sister. I live c40 miles away (two trains and a bus in each direction), she lives c25 miles away. Although she has carers going in four times a day, we are really worried about what will happen if there's a lockdown - the carers don't do e.g. food shopping, washing (of which there is a full load, almost every day), emptying bins etc.
Of course, we don't want to catch the disease and spread it to her, or anyone else, during the incubation period, . Footbumps, no hugs, and blown kisses.

If they close down schools etc, who will look after the children of health / care workers? Some may live near family who are able and willing to help, some may not. So do they stay off their vital work to look after their kids, or informally make arrangements for them to be looked after in groups?
I'm glad I'm not making these decisions. I think there is a case for the concept of 'herd immunity' to prevent a major re-infection next winter, and for slowing down the virus so that the health services can cope with the most vulnerable. But there are so many factors to consider, and the scientists are still learning how this virus behaves. And I am not a scientist.

They can keep schools open just to look after all the essential service workers children. I don't get herd immunity. Seems like a good idea until you combine it with herd mentality. People aren't going to do what the government wants, as we've seen with almost all sport being cancelled. Getting a lot of people infected is going to cause a panic. One of those ideas that works well in theory but they are already seeing it fails in practice. It also seems to be the opposite way almost all the other worlds leading scientists are advising. So many scientists are working flat out on this, they may well have better treatments for the outbreak after this one and they will know much more about what they're dealing with.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: obj owl on March 14, 2020, 19:29
Also in lockdown in Spain, it's bonkers how serious it's suddenly got. No going out unless completely necessary.
Just got to sit it out and try to slow it down as much as poss for the health services to be able to cope. And put up with a bored teenager in house ::)
I hope UK closes schools etc down soon. In the beginning I thought they were right about waiting but now I think they need to and quickly.
I don't have the option of staying in, I share the care of my chairbound mother with my sister. I live c40 miles away (two trains and a bus in each direction), she lives c25 miles away. Although she has carers going in four times a day, we are really worried about what will happen if there's a lockdown - the carers don't do e.g. food shopping, washing (of which there is a full load, almost every day), emptying bins etc.
Of course, we don't want to catch the disease and spread it to her, or anyone else, during the incubation period, . Footbumps, no hugs, and blown kisses.

If they close down schools etc, who will look after the children of health / care workers? Some may live near family who are able and willing to help, some may not. So do they stay off their vital work to look after their kids, or informally make arrangements for them to be looked after in groups?
I'm glad I'm not making these decisions. I think there is a case for the concept of 'herd immunity' to prevent a major re-infection next winter, and for slowing down the virus so that the health services can cope with the most vulnerable. But there are so many factors to consider, and the scientists are still learning how this virus behaves. And I am not a scientist.

They can keep schools open just to look after all the essential service workers children. I don't get herd immunity. Seems like a good idea until you combine it with herd mentality. People aren't going to do what the government wants, as we've seen with almost all sport being cancelled. Getting a lot of people infected is going to cause a panic. One of those ideas that works well in theory but they are already seeing it fails in practice. It also seems to be the opposite way almost all the other worlds leading scientists are advising. So many scientists are working flat out on this, they may well have better treatments for the outbreak after this one and they will know much more about what they're dealing with.

I think we may have heard the last of Herd Immunity for a while.  The concept may live on or at least the sensible parts or it.

Matt Hancock the Secretary State for Health tweeted NEWS: My Telegraph article on the next stage of our #coronavirus plan: We must all do everything in our power to protect lives

only problem it was behind a paywall and nobody outside the Tory faithful could read it without paying premium prices. A shitstorm erupted on twitter and the Telegraph lifted the paywall. This is his article https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/03/14/must-do-everything-power-protect-lives/?WT.mc_id=tmgliveapp_iosshare_At9w8jYPvkKQ (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/03/14/must-do-everything-power-protect-lives/?WT.mc_id=tmgliveapp_iosshare_At9w8jYPvkKQ)

The first line
" We have a plan, based on the expertise of world-leading scientists. Herd immunity is not a part of it. That is a scientific concept, not a goal or a strategy. Our goal is to protect life from this virus, our strategy is to protect the most vulnerable and protect the NHS through contain, delay, research and mitigate."

These people should not be running a corner shop let alone a government. I hope he got paid well for his article publishing Health Department information.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: obj owl on March 14, 2020, 19:33
Also in lockdown in Spain, it's bonkers how serious it's suddenly got. No going out unless completely necessary.
Just got to sit it out and try to slow it down as much as poss for the health services to be able to cope. And put up with a bored teenager in house ::)
I hope UK closes schools etc down soon. In the beginning I thought they were right about waiting but now I think they need to and quickly.
I don't have the option of staying in, I share the care of my chairbound mother with my sister. I live c40 miles away (two trains and a bus in each direction), she lives c25 miles away. Although she has carers going in four times a day, we are really worried about what will happen if there's a lockdown - the carers don't do e.g. food shopping, washing (of which there is a full load, almost every day), emptying bins etc.
Of course, we don't want to catch the disease and spread it to her, or anyone else, during the incubation period, . Footbumps, no hugs, and blown kisses.

If they close down schools etc, who will look after the children of health / care workers? Some may live near family who are able and willing to help, some may not. So do they stay off their vital work to look after their kids, or informally make arrangements for them to be looked after in groups?
I'm glad I'm not making these decisions. I think there is a case for the concept of 'herd immunity' to prevent a major re-infection next winter, and for slowing down the virus so that the health services can cope with the most vulnerable. But there are so many factors to consider, and the scientists are still learning how this virus behaves. And I am not a scientist.
Sorry to hear your problems Sue. Give your mother a big wide smile from me the next time you see her and tell her she has hundreds of MSGers thinking of her :)
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: ShadySue on March 14, 2020, 19:58
Also in lockdown in Spain, it's bonkers how serious it's suddenly got. No going out unless completely necessary.
Just got to sit it out and try to slow it down as much as poss for the health services to be able to cope. And put up with a bored teenager in house ::)
I hope UK closes schools etc down soon. In the beginning I thought they were right about waiting but now I think they need to and quickly.
I don't have the option of staying in, I share the care of my chairbound mother with my sister. I live c40 miles away (two trains and a bus in each direction), she lives c25 miles away. Although she has carers going in four times a day, we are really worried about what will happen if there's a lockdown - the carers don't do e.g. food shopping, washing (of which there is a full load, almost every day), emptying bins etc.
Of course, we don't want to catch the disease and spread it to her, or anyone else, during the incubation period, . Footbumps, no hugs, and blown kisses.

If they close down schools etc, who will look after the children of health / care workers? Some may live near family who are able and willing to help, some may not. So do they stay off their vital work to look after their kids, or informally make arrangements for them to be looked after in groups?
I'm glad I'm not making these decisions. I think there is a case for the concept of 'herd immunity' to prevent a major re-infection next winter, and for slowing down the virus so that the health services can cope with the most vulnerable. But there are so many factors to consider, and the scientists are still learning how this virus behaves. And I am not a scientist.
Sorry to hear your problems Sue. Give your mother a big wide smile from me the next time you see her and tell her she has hundreds of MSGers thinking of her :)

Thanks, it's not really a problem for me.  :) There must be thousands like my Mum who would be very seriously impacted in the event of a shutdown (and also she's be seriously impacted if she caught the virus, it's a real dilemma). It's just that when people say, 'we need a shutdown, think of the most vulnerable', they're not actually thinking about the needs of the most vulnerable.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: mj007 on March 14, 2020, 23:39
I found this site on the Coronavirus by country. It show in graphs the number of the infected , if you hit the country you are interested in . The scary part is not the number of infected in USA but the rate of infection by dates. In USA the numbers are quite low. I think early today they listed 2600 infected in America. The rate for America is doubling about every three days if you look at the graphs. If that rate in America continues it will a big,big problem. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/)
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: suz7 on March 15, 2020, 01:15
Also in lockdown in Spain, it's bonkers how serious it's suddenly got. No going out unless completely necessary.
Just got to sit it out and try to slow it down as much as poss for the health services to be able to cope. And put up with a bored teenager in house ::)
I hope UK closes schools etc down soon. In the beginning I thought they were right about waiting but now I think they need to and quickly.
I don't have the option of staying in, I share the care of my chairbound mother with my sister. I live c40 miles away (two trains and a bus in each direction), she lives c25 miles away. Although she has carers going in four times a day, we are really worried about what will happen if there's a lockdown - the carers don't do e.g. food shopping, washing (of which there is a full load, almost every day), emptying bins etc.
Of course, we don't want to catch the disease and spread it to her, or anyone else, during the incubation period, . Footbumps, no hugs, and blown kisses.

If they close down schools etc, who will look after the children of health / care workers? Some may live near family who are able and willing to help, some may not. So do they stay off their vital work to look after their kids, or informally make arrangements for them to be looked after in groups?
I'm glad I'm not making these decisions. I think there is a case for the concept of 'herd immunity' to prevent a major re-infection next winter, and for slowing down the virus so that the health services can cope with the most vulnerable. But there are so many factors to consider, and the scientists are still learning how this virus behaves. And I am not a scientist.
Sorry to hear your problems Sue. Give your mother a big wide smile from me the next time you see her and tell her she has hundreds of MSGers thinking of her :)

Thanks, it's not really a problem for me.  :) There must be thousands like my Mum who would be very seriously impacted in the event of a shutdown (and also she's be seriously impacted if she caught the virus, it's a real dilemma). It's just that when people say, 'we need a shutdown, think of the most vulnerable', they're not actually thinking about the needs of the most vulnerable.
It's a really difficult one. I feel for you as it must be a real worry. The lockdown counts those visits for caring for people as essential but I can understand that you might be left without the carers. My side is different, my parents in the UK both have heart problems and my dad is waiting on an emergency op - it's a real danger to them if they the catch it. My daughter is at college there and lives with them so I guess i am thinking selfishly of them. 
The risk is that the health service gets overloaded and people can't be treated, which would mostly be the vulnerable.
If it's slowed down there is less sudden strain on everything. It's still going to be massively tough though no matter what.

Financially it's going to be a disaster! I am self employed but working from home is not an option. Apart from microstock, hahahahahahaha:)
People here are helping each other out as much as poss which is a good thing. I hope things don't become more difficult for you Sue than they already must be.
 :)
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: cristianstorto on March 15, 2020, 02:34
Politics, economy, markets, is for later. The sooner you understand the sooner you think about not putting the person in front at risk. Now, nothing else matters but stopping the contagion. In a few days, what you know, your routine will disappear, your life will not be the same. It will be seen if there are cruises and sales when the epidemic expires, but now, don't infect anyone is the goal, not infect anyone. Do it for others. Each must be responsible for not infecting the rest.


Tenebroso
From Spain.






Edited to wish everyone luck. Lots, lots, lots of luck.

I subscribe to every single word of Tenebroso. I write from Italy and, although the country has been closed for 6 days now, in the most affected region (Lombardy), cases increase at the impressive rate of 1500 per day. Intensive care beds are about to end up in that region and, for some days now, doctors say that they will soon be forced to choose who to treat and who to let die. The only way to stop the exponential growth of the virus is to stay home, stay home, stay home. I am very worried about my English friends, who have been faced with a disastrous hypothesis. Why? Because there is no scientific evidence regarding the fact that, once cured of the virus, one cannot be infected again. Herd immunity theory, in this case, is a really dangerous gamble.
If your government has not yet taken drastic measures such as here in Italy, Spain and France, be yourselves to take all necessary precautions: if you can work from home, do it; ALWAYS keep a distance of at least one meter from the people you talk to, wash your hands as often as you can and properly.
You get used to quarantine quickly, less quickly you will get used to seeing scenes like those of a city in northern Italy, in which, in these days, a burial is carried out every half hour.
For God's sake, stay home!
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Uncle Pete on March 15, 2020, 08:05
Also in lockdown in Spain, it's bonkers how serious it's suddenly got. No going out unless completely necessary.
Just got to sit it out and try to slow it down as much as poss for the health services to be able to cope. And put up with a bored teenager in house ::)
I hope UK closes schools etc down soon. In the beginning I thought they were right about waiting but now I think they need to and quickly.
I don't have the option of staying in, I share the care of my chairbound mother with my sister. I live c40 miles away (two trains and a bus in each direction), she lives c25 miles away. Although she has carers going in four times a day, we are really worried about what will happen if there's a lockdown - the carers don't do e.g. food shopping, washing (of which there is a full load, almost every day), emptying bins etc.
Of course, we don't want to catch the disease and spread it to her, or anyone else, during the incubation period, . Footbumps, no hugs, and blown kisses.

If they close down schools etc, who will look after the children of health / care workers? Some may live near family who are able and willing to help, some may not. So do they stay off their vital work to look after their kids, or informally make arrangements for them to be looked after in groups?
I'm glad I'm not making these decisions. I think there is a case for the concept of 'herd immunity' to prevent a major re-infection next winter, and for slowing down the virus so that the health services can cope with the most vulnerable. But there are so many factors to consider, and the scientists are still learning how this virus behaves. And I am not a scientist.

They can keep schools open just to look after all the essential service workers children. I don't get herd immunity. Seems like a good idea until you combine it with herd mentality. People aren't going to do what the government wants, as we've seen with almost all sport being cancelled. Getting a lot of people infected is going to cause a panic. One of those ideas that works well in theory but they are already seeing it fails in practice. It also seems to be the opposite way almost all the other worlds leading scientists are advising. So many scientists are working flat out on this, they may well have better treatments for the outbreak after this one and they will know much more about what they're dealing with.

‘Herd immunity is a form of immunity that occurs when the vaccination of a significant portion of a population (or herd) provides a measure of protection for individuals who have not developed immunity.’

I don't know who's saying, let everyone catch the disease and that will prevent the spread, that makes absolutely no sense. There is no vaccine.

About the question, health care people, closing schools, at who's going to take care of the others. Locally a couple people have already volunteered to keep others children, with their own, during work hours, because daycare and schools have been closed. People helping others, in a time of need.

Which is the opposite of why we see empty store shelves as people panic and stockpile paper goods, and canned soup. I also see all the frozen bread is sold out, along with paper towels and facial tissues.

Valerie works health care, taking care of older people in home. The workers are now having their temperature taken at the entrance, every time they come in.

Just hitting the USA, watch the numbers climb this week. Hopefully the statistics for Europe will start to taper off soon.

Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Lizard on March 15, 2020, 13:31
Just saw that numbers in Italy went up again and the situation is not looking good in whole Europe in general. 

Wishing good luck to everyone and stay home, stay safe as much as you can and lets hope the amplitude will hit the top very soon.

 

Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: sharpshot on March 15, 2020, 19:55
Also in lockdown in Spain, it's bonkers how serious it's suddenly got. No going out unless completely necessary.
Just got to sit it out and try to slow it down as much as poss for the health services to be able to cope. And put up with a bored teenager in house ::)
I hope UK closes schools etc down soon. In the beginning I thought they were right about waiting but now I think they need to and quickly.
I don't have the option of staying in, I share the care of my chairbound mother with my sister. I live c40 miles away (two trains and a bus in each direction), she lives c25 miles away. Although she has carers going in four times a day, we are really worried about what will happen if there's a lockdown - the carers don't do e.g. food shopping, washing (of which there is a full load, almost every day), emptying bins etc.
Of course, we don't want to catch the disease and spread it to her, or anyone else, during the incubation period, . Footbumps, no hugs, and blown kisses.

If they close down schools etc, who will look after the children of health / care workers? Some may live near family who are able and willing to help, some may not. So do they stay off their vital work to look after their kids, or informally make arrangements for them to be looked after in groups?
I'm glad I'm not making these decisions. I think there is a case for the concept of 'herd immunity' to prevent a major re-infection next winter, and for slowing down the virus so that the health services can cope with the most vulnerable. But there are so many factors to consider, and the scientists are still learning how this virus behaves. And I am not a scientist.

They can keep schools open just to look after all the essential service workers children. I don't get herd immunity. Seems like a good idea until you combine it with herd mentality. People aren't going to do what the government wants, as we've seen with almost all sport being cancelled. Getting a lot of people infected is going to cause a panic. One of those ideas that works well in theory but they are already seeing it fails in practice. It also seems to be the opposite way almost all the other worlds leading scientists are advising. So many scientists are working flat out on this, they may well have better treatments for the outbreak after this one and they will know much more about what they're dealing with.

‘Herd immunity is a form of immunity that occurs when the vaccination of a significant portion of a population (or herd) provides a measure of protection for individuals who have not developed immunity.’

I don't know who's saying, let everyone catch the disease and that will prevent the spread, that makes absolutely no sense. There is no vaccine.

About the question, health care people, closing schools, at who's going to take care of the others. Locally a couple people have already volunteered to keep others children, with their own, during work hours, because daycare and schools have been closed. People helping others, in a time of need.

Which is the opposite of why we see empty store shelves as people panic and stockpile paper goods, and canned soup. I also see all the frozen bread is sold out, along with paper towels and facial tissues.

Valerie works health care, taking care of older people in home. The workers are now having their temperature taken at the entrance, every time they come in.

Just hitting the USA, watch the numbers climb this week. Hopefully the statistics for Europe will start to taper off soon.
The scientists that the pathetic UK government are listening to were talking about herd immunity. The theory is that all countries that have a lock down now, will be in trouble when a second wave hits, as too few will of developed an immunity, from having the virus. They don't mind that the first wave could wipe a lot of us out. Thankfully, most of the big mass gatherings, like football matches, were called off, against the governments policy. Now the UK government is changing its tune but I have zero confidence in them.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Pauws99 on March 16, 2020, 03:13
The UK government is being dragged along by events and at least a week behind the curve. Individuals and even businesses are acting more responsibly than the govt. The UK used to be good at this stuff. The home sectretary should be protecting us...shes nowhere to be seen..........
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: MicroVet on March 16, 2020, 04:15
I've just read the news that Donald Trump, the US president, tried to secure the exclusive for the coronavirus vaccine to the United States, making it unavailable to the rest of the world!  :o

The vaccine is being developed (soon to be tested in humans) by a German company, and after the refusal of the company to give the US the exclusive, Trump tried to buy the company.

The German ministry of Health already commented on the issue declaring that when a vaccine is developed it will be for the whole world and that the company is safe.

This action by Trump, trying to prevent the world to access a cure securing it just for the US is beyond anything I thought possible and places Trump among the likes of Adolph Hitler.

I consider this an act of war and attempted genocide and I would completely support isolation and heavy sanctions against the US, while this monster, or another one like him elected by the Americans, is in office.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: ShadySue on March 16, 2020, 06:19
I've just read the news that Donald Trump, the US president, tried to secure the exclusive for the coronavirus vaccine to the United States, making it unavailable to the rest of the world!  :o

The vaccine is being developed (soon to be tested in humans) by a German company, and after the refusal of the company to give the US the exclusive, Trump tried to buy the company.
How come is it that with each new bit of info which comes out about Trump, I still think, "this must be fake news".
I do apologise, it's only too real.

Quote
The German ministry of Health already commented on the issue declaring that when a vaccine is developed it will be for the whole world and that the company is safe.

This action by Trump, trying to prevent the world to access a cure securing it just for the US is beyond anything I thought possible and places Trump among the likes of Adolph Hitler.

I consider this an act of war and attempted genocide and I would completely support isolation and heavy sanctions against the US, while this monster, or another one like him elected by the Americans, is in office.
His followers will just say he's making good on his promise to keep America First (and to Hell with the rest of us).
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: BalkanskiMacak on March 16, 2020, 06:37
I just checked my numbers for the first half of the month... It's actually pretty good. I made more money during the past 15 days than during the whole month of February (that was a bad month), and I'm $2 away from my March 2019 performance.

Important to mention: I'm mainly editorial.

I'm monitoring carefully SS, as it's the main channel, and even the recent pictures are getting sales.

The news are constantly changing, so there's a huge demand on anything that could be related to coronavirus, even from far away. As I was mentioning before, crowds on pedestrian streets, law enforcement and first aid related content, typical pictures from the most hit places (if you have previously been to Iran, Italy or Spain, it's time to massively upload), public transportation and commuters, etc. There's a market at the moment.

If the economy goes into recession, it won't last, of course, but there's at the moment a market, so it can be a good idea to make some cash provisions before something financially nasty happens.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: MicroVet on March 16, 2020, 06:45
I've just read the news that Donald Trump, the US president, tried to secure the exclusive for the coronavirus vaccine to the United States, making it unavailable to the rest of the world!  :o

The vaccine is being developed (soon to be tested in humans) by a German company, and after the refusal of the company to give the US the exclusive, Trump tried to buy the company.
How come is it that with each new bit of info which comes out about Trump, I still think, "this must be fake news".
I do apologise, it's only too real.

Quote
The German ministry of Health already commented on the issue declaring that when a vaccine is developed it will be for the whole world and that the company is safe.

This action by Trump, trying to prevent the world to access a cure securing it just for the US is beyond anything I thought possible and places Trump among the likes of Adolph Hitler.

I consider this an act of war and attempted genocide and I would completely support isolation and heavy sanctions against the US, while this monster, or another one like him elected by the Americans, is in office.
His followers will just say he's making good on his promise to keep America First (and to Hell with the rest of us).

Well the news appeared on a reference newspaper of my country (Western Europe), also in the Guardian, NYT, etc.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Visualab on March 16, 2020, 10:49
I've just read the news that Donald Trump, the US president, tried to secure the exclusive for the coronavirus vaccine to the United States, making it unavailable to the rest of the world!  :o

The vaccine is being developed (soon to be tested in humans) by a German company, and after the refusal of the company to give the US the exclusive, Trump tried to buy the company.

The German ministry of Health already commented on the issue declaring that when a vaccine is developed it will be for the whole world and that the company is safe.

This action by Trump, trying to prevent the world to access a cure securing it just for the US is beyond anything I thought possible and places Trump among the likes of Adolph Hitler.

I consider this an act of war and attempted genocide and I would completely support isolation and heavy sanctions against the US, while this monster, or another one like him elected by the Americans, is in office.

Nothing new...american govs have always acted this way...financial first,no matter if there will be deaths...you won't find any state with no petrol or a strategic position where americans go to war in the name of a fake democracy....it says all...
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: HalfFull on March 17, 2020, 06:10
It is 6% on closed cases, but the mortality rate is calculated on open and closed cases, so it's 3.66% currently. If they just calculated it using closed cases, and only one person had died but nobody had yet recovered... the mortality rate would be 100%.

And also doesn't take into account all those who've had it but not tested. There is a large volume of people who get it and have zero symptoms and never realise they've had it. That is one of the reasons it is important to develop a test that determines whether you've had it rather than the current tests which can only tell you whether you have it now.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: HalfFull on March 17, 2020, 06:29
The UK government is being dragged along by events and at least a week behind the curve. Individuals and even businesses are acting more responsibly than the govt. The UK used to be good at this stuff. The home sectretary should be protecting us...shes nowhere to be seen..........

The ones protecting us are the experts providing the government the advice, who happen to be leaders in the field of viral diseases. I trust them over you or I and we certainly don't know what's going on behind the scenes. I'd rather not see every Tom, Dick or Harry every 2 minutes repeating the same message, better that we see only the PM and the 2 experts for a daily Q & A while Ministers and experts work flat out behind the scenes sorting stuff out rather than sat in front of a TV camera.

Each and every country will be faced with a different set of problems that has to be balanced. There is zero point in comparing the requirements / response of one nation to another as borders, population balance, infrastructure and resources will all differ. Meanwhile, the media is doing a great job whipping up a frenzy of panic by quoting part statements that are misleading or, don't provide the full picture just to get views on their webpages and increase advertising revenue.

As far as business goes, SS is a little quieter but AS is doing really well this month.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: trabuco on March 17, 2020, 08:51
Massive tests.
Massive lockdown.

And total isolation of countries which have not adopted these measures.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: georgep7 on March 17, 2020, 09:00
....
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: trabuco on March 17, 2020, 09:12
People & politicians = Contributors & stock agencies.

The EU used to be the best place to live in. Now we are all too cool I think.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: trabuco on March 17, 2020, 09:19
Maybe Boris and others like him should think twice some things:

https://elpais.com/espana/madrid/2020-03-17/al-menos-19-muertos-en-una-residencia-de-ancianos-de-madrid-por-el-brote-de-coronavirus.html

Coronavirus kills 19 in ONE nursing home. More expected to die.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: HalfFull on March 17, 2020, 09:43
Maybe Boris and others like him should think twice some things:

https://elpais.com/espana/madrid/2020-03-17/al-menos-19-muertos-en-una-residencia-de-ancianos-de-madrid-por-el-brote-de-coronavirus.html

Coronavirus kills 19 in ONE nursing home. More expected to die.

That's why the elderly have to be protected, they're the most at risk. It's why the UK have stated no unnecessary Nursing Home visits and elderly (over 70) to self isolated after the weekend. We all love our parents and grandparents and wold love to see them but that love could kill them.

I've already made sure they know how to use FaceTime on the iPad so we can see and talk to them. It's not the same as going their but, we all have a responsibility. Not see them for 2-3 months is not as bad as never seeng them again!

Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: HalfFull on March 17, 2020, 09:52
be sure trump putin and boris mother won't die....ahaha...politicians should be hanged on a bridge...especially these one

There are a lot of politicians I dislike, but I've never stooped as low as wishing someone dead... The hate that radiates from you reflects more on you than the people you dislike.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: georgep7 on March 17, 2020, 10:04
....
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: trabuco on March 17, 2020, 10:07
Maybe Boris and others like him should think twice some things:

https://elpais.com/espana/madrid/2020-03-17/al-menos-19-muertos-en-una-residencia-de-ancianos-de-madrid-por-el-brote-de-coronavirus.html

Coronavirus kills 19 in ONE nursing home. More expected to die.

That's why the elderly have to be protected, they're the most at risk. It's why the UK have stated no unnecessary Nursing Home visits and elderly (over 70) to self isolated after the weekend. We all love our parents and grandparents and wold love to see them but that love could kill them.

I've already made sure they know how to use FaceTime on the iPad so we can see and talk to them. It's not the same as going their but, we all have a responsibility. Not see them for 2-3 months is not as bad as never seeng them again!

You can't protect them if you don't isolate the virus and stop the propagation. Elderly people don't live inside a waterproof chamber. With the schools, shops, cinemas... open they are dead.

I mean, try to realize that Spain or France are not China, we have strong and expensive health systems, both much better than the NHS I think. And they are in a overflowing risk as we see in Madrid, our main city.

I love the UK, I use to travel to London twice a year, don't misunderstand my opinions. But I can't understand what happens there.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: HalfFull on March 17, 2020, 10:43
Maybe Boris and others like him should think twice some things:

https://elpais.com/espana/madrid/2020-03-17/al-menos-19-muertos-en-una-residencia-de-ancianos-de-madrid-por-el-brote-de-coronavirus.html

Coronavirus kills 19 in ONE nursing home. More expected to die.

That's why the elderly have to be protected, they're the most at risk. It's why the UK have stated no unnecessary Nursing Home visits and elderly (over 70) to self isolated after the weekend. We all love our parents and grandparents and wold love to see them but that love could kill them.

I've already made sure they know how to use FaceTime on the iPad so we can see and talk to them. It's not the same as going their but, we all have a responsibility. Not see them for 2-3 months is not as bad as never seeng them again!

You can't protect them if you don't isolate the virus and stop the propagation. Elderly people don't live inside a waterproof chamber. With the schools, shops, cinemas... open they are dead.

I mean, try to realize that Spain or France are not China, we have strong and expensive health systems, both much better than the NHS I think. And they are in a overflowing risk as we see in Madrid, our main city.

I love the UK, I use to travel to London twice a year, don't misunderstand my opinions. But I can't understand what happens there.

Closing schools while parents are working = staying with grandparents = increased risk. Until more parents are no longer going into work schools will remain open.

Also, some 30-40% of nurses are also parents, if they have to return home to look after children who are no longer at school then that will all impact on treating the ill / infected.

They've already said schools will have to close but it is a case of managing / balancing the risks rather than trying to avoid it, which is impossible
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: trabuco on March 17, 2020, 10:54
And the people that work in the nursing homes they have children too. The children use to spread the diseases.

Anyway, you can see what happens in several countries before. In Spain we din't learn from the italian mistakes and either in France. Now we are at home for a long time.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: trabuco on March 17, 2020, 10:58
What I'm trying to say is that the UK had a real advantage over us.

I hope to drink hundreds of pints this summer.

Regards.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: HalfFull on March 17, 2020, 11:22
And the people that work in the nursing homes they have children too. The children use to spread the diseases.

Anyway, you can see what happens in several countries before. In Spain we din't learn from the italian mistakes and either in France. Now we are at home for a long time.

I know what your saying but if the kids are not at school, then the parents are no longer at the nursing home as they have to look after the children. In other words, you are damed if you do and damed if you don't. It's a balancing act, whats more beneficial at this moment in time? Once infection rates increase they will close schools as the risk will become too great.

At this moment in time, our region has 1 confirmed case, why close all schools at this point, which would result in Care Homes and hospitals loosing staff when they need them most. Give it a week or so when cases increase then, then the schools will close as the risk becomes too great.

One of the biggest risks are the people who ignore the self-isolation and go out anyway. People who've been to high risk areas or have signs of a cold etc. We've seen plenty of stories, including people that have died because they caught the virus from people who came back from high risk zones and didn't self-isolate as instructed. The people who think they know better and ignore the rules are our biggest risk.

If we all stick to what is being asked of us and let the experts make the decisions as best they can based on the current data they have then hopefully we'll get through this with as minimal loss of life as possible. I think it would be wrong to think this can be avoided, they know it can't... it's all about slowing it down so the NHS is not overrun by a large spike of cases.

Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: trabuco on March 17, 2020, 12:01
We had that big problem. People from infected areas, Madrid, moving free around the country (like Spring holidays) and spreading the virus everywhere, like the italian tourists before them.

In my region we had a few cases until that, until the holidays from Madrid and the returned students from that area. Some deads here are linked to that.

These people should be jailed.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: HalfFull on March 17, 2020, 12:08
We had that big problem. People from infected areas, Madrid, moving free around the country (like Spring holidays) and spreading the virus everywhere, like the italian tourists before them.

In my region we had a few cases until that, until the holidays from Madrid and the returned students from that area. Some deads here are linked to that.

These people should be jailed.

Agreed. If they knowingly do it it's a form of manslaughter in my books. It most cases, we're our own worst enemies. If people stick to the rules, which will be short term in the greater scheme of things, then we can get through this quicker! My fear is to begin with there will be a lot of people with the, "It's all nonsense!" attitude. It's these people that will do the most damage.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Lizard on March 17, 2020, 12:55
In many countries they are testing just and only those who had close contact with those who were tested positive so the real numbers of infected are waaay higher. Because mild cases many will not even know they have or had it.

Slovenian minister of health says that the number of infected should be multiplied at least with 5.

Some countries also received new cheaper test to be able to test more people. In Croatia they tested those cheaper tests with blood of 3 proven positive and all test came negative so they decided to neglect and put those test out of use. Some countries will use those as well.
   

 
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Tenebroso on March 17, 2020, 13:14
The good news is that the planet, nature, is recovering. We will learn many things from this. Soon all countries will put aside the economy. Ridiculous problems will be abandoned and importance will be given to what has value. Life.

In a few days the entire world population will be in the same situation as we, are days ahead. It will not only change the values of each individual. To protect ourselves as a species we will have to help poor countries.


The world is going to change because man is going to change. The haters, trolls, disinformation, organized attacks to devastate the masses will change in hours. Only truth works in this new war. Economic interests do not work here. Nor the problems as an individual. Only humanity serves. He who does not understand me will understand me very soon.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: jonbull on March 17, 2020, 14:12
this scare will last for years...especially the economic is gonna be a nightmare in this and next year probably, millions unemployed, sure we must change habits and common law about everything , probably deal with a much lower level of richness, and probably other thing s will improve, starting from politicians i hope.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: trabuco on March 17, 2020, 14:21
In many countries they are testing just and only those who had close contact with those who were tested positive so the real numbers of infected are waaay higher. Because mild cases many will not even know they have or had it.


This is true.

In Spain you can call a phone for coronavirus but they don't make the test to you. If you are a politican they do many times.

They just do the test to you if you know that you have some contact with infected people or if you have been in the infected areas.

Today, our Boris has announced massive tests for all the people with symptoms. I don't believe him, for me It's a criminal government.

Let's see.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Lizard on March 17, 2020, 14:51
this scare will last for years...especially the economic is gonna be a nightmare in this and next year probably, millions unemployed, sure we must change habits and common law about everything , probably deal with a much lower level of richness, and probably other thing s will improve, starting from politicians i hope.

I dont think it will improve. This will just give them reasons to put more repression on common people.

Politicians proved multiple times they have cheek skin so thick thats impossible to blush from shame. Even if caught with their fingers deep inside the jam jar they are able to defend them self with most transparent lies.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Juanmonino on March 17, 2020, 15:57
In many countries they are testing just and only those who had close contact with those who were tested positive so the real numbers of infected are waaay higher. Because mild cases many will not even know they have or had it.


This is true.

In Spain you can call a phone for coronavirus but they don't make the test to you. If you are a politican they do many times.

They just do the test to you if you know that you have some contact with infected people or if you have been in the infected areas.

Today, our Boris has announced massive tests for all the people with symptoms. I don't believe him, for me It's a criminal government.

Let's see.

Boris Johnson is a lying *insult removed* as Donald Clown, their only concern is to remain in power
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: obj owl on March 17, 2020, 16:57
We had that big problem. People from infected areas, Madrid, moving free around the country (like Spring holidays) and spreading the virus everywhere, like the italian tourists before them.

In my region we had a few cases until that, until the holidays from Madrid and the returned students from that area. Some deads here are linked to that.

These people should be jailed.

Agreed. If they knowingly do it it's a form of manslaughter in my books. It most cases, we're our own worst enemies. If people stick to the rules, which will be short term in the greater scheme of things, then we can get through this quicker! My fear is to begin with there will be a lot of people with the, "It's all nonsense!" attitude. It's these people that will do the most damage.

There seems to be a contradiction in what you say above and your previous post #67.  Boris and his two sidekick scientist are allowing free movement and large gatherings, keeping schools, pubs, clubs and theaters open knowing the virus will be spread far and wide.  Should they be charged with manslaughter?  They have not been testing so they cannot be accused of knowing the scale of the problem, is that their defense?
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Pauws99 on March 17, 2020, 17:20
The UK government is being dragged along by events and at least a week behind the curve. Individuals and even businesses are acting more responsibly than the govt. The UK used to be good at this stuff. The home sectretary should be protecting us...shes nowhere to be seen..........

The ones protecting us are the experts providing the government the advice, who happen to be leaders in the field of viral diseases. I trust them over you or I and we certainly don't know what's going on behind the scenes. I'd rather not see every Tom, Dick or Harry every 2 minutes repeating the same message, better that we see only the PM and the 2 experts for a daily Q & A while Ministers and experts work flat out behind the scenes sorting stuff out rather than sat in front of a TV camera.

Each and every country will be faced with a different set of problems that has to be balanced. There is zero point in comparing the requirements / response of one nation to another as borders, population balance, infrastructure and resources will all differ. Meanwhile, the media is doing a great job whipping up a frenzy of panic by quoting part statements that are misleading or, don't provide the full picture just to get views on their webpages and increase advertising revenue.

As far as business goes, SS is a little quieter but AS is doing really well this month.
There is every reason to compare what works or otherwise in every country thats how we learn and progress. "Our" experts until yesterday seemed at odds with the rest of the world's including the WHO. The next step will be closing schools which again will be reactive as many schools are taking it upon themselves to close.
I've taken the advice and limit social contact to a minimum will not go to pubs and restaurants  although my local ones remain open.
Getting back to issue of Microstock I can't see any significant change one way or the other as yet  but I reckon that is likely to occur in a month or two where budgets might be slashed or looking on the bright side different content might be needed to reflect the new reality.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: trabuco on March 18, 2020, 01:29
China could have the first vaccine, they start human trials:

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/coronavirus-covid-19-china-human-trial-vaccine-12548902 (https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/coronavirus-covid-19-china-human-trial-vaccine-12548902)

Saving western democracies from themselves?
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Pauws99 on March 18, 2020, 01:35
We had that big problem. People from infected areas, Madrid, moving free around the country (like Spring holidays) and spreading the virus everywhere, like the italian tourists before them.

In my region we had a few cases until that, until the holidays from Madrid and the returned students from that area. Some deads here are linked to that.

These people should be jailed.

Agreed. If they knowingly do it it's a form of manslaughter in my books. It most cases, we're our own worst enemies. If people stick to the rules, which will be short term in the greater scheme of things, then we can get through this quicker! My fear is to begin with there will be a lot of people with the, "It's all nonsense!" attitude. It's these people that will do the most damage.

There seems to be a contradiction in what you say above and your previous post #67.  Boris and his two sidekick scientist are allowing free movement and large gatherings, keeping schools, pubs, clubs and theaters open knowing the virus will be spread far and wide.  Should they be charged with manslaughter?  They have not been testing so they cannot be accused of knowing the scale of the problem, is that their defense?
Well now they have advised against it while still allowing it. From what I can see theatres have pretty much closed down whlist many pubs and restaurants are carrying on and  acting  as infection control experts drove past two last night both open. I was amazed to see Pizza Hut are keeping even their buffet areas open but cleaning more often!
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on March 18, 2020, 02:29
this scare will last for years...especially the economic is gonna be a nightmare in this and next year probably, millions unemployed, sure we must change habits and common law about everything , probably deal with a much lower level of richness, and probably other thing s will improve, starting from politicians i hope.

I dont think it will improve. This will just give them reasons to put more repression on common people.

Politicians proved multiple times they have cheek skin so thick thats impossible to blush from shame. Even if caught with their fingers deep inside the jam jar they are able to defend them self with most transparent lies.
Agreed. There's also a big chunk of the population that just wants a "strong man" they can serve and will tell them what to do (like gift givers in older societies). Events like this, sadly, tend to bring that kind of thinking to the fore even more so. You would hope it would lead to restructuring and empowering of common people to stop the cycle, but sadly we are all pretty much apes.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: fritz on March 18, 2020, 20:02
I don't know for the rest of the world but in Europe is really scary! Everything is on halt!  Europe like never before, darkness and fear, empty streets,closed borders...
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Deyan Georgiev Photography on March 18, 2020, 23:23
empty streets,closed borders...

If that had happened two months ago we would be much more safe today, but as always the money and the economy is on top priority for the politics and for the strongest men, they are just too late, The UK do the maximum to delay even more all measures, so stupid...
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: trabuco on March 19, 2020, 01:17
empty streets,closed borders...

If that had happened two months ago we would be much more safe today, but as always the money and the economy is on top priority for the politics and for the strongest men, they are just too late, The UK do the maximum to delay even more all measures, so stupid...

In Spain many people said to the criminal government "close our borders to italian, korean and chinese flights. Stop the propagation, we have a lot of tourists from these countries".This is not xenophobia or hate, It's common sense.

PM said "It's impossible one case of coronavirus in our country". Bizarre but true. Then, italian tourists began to spread the virus.

Meanwhile our chinese population (we have a lot) had a great behaviour, more than spaniards, they quarantine themselves to stop fear and propagation. Amazing. Proud of them, they had seen the situation in China and are smarter than we are. They closed shops and went home for several weeks.

After that the criminal government allowed massive gatherings on 8M, with the country under health alert and a lot of cases in Madrid. Thousands of people on Madrid streets, party time.

Today we have 14k infected and 741 deads. Our elderly people is dying for dozens in several places.

28 infected for every 100.000 people.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: DigitalPro on March 19, 2020, 07:02
Mr Boris Joke should look in his mirror and tell us what he sees. I am sure he will see an ugly bloody monster. The entire world suffers from coronavirus and people loose their life every day the hundreds or thousands. Yet he lives in his own world - something like a psychologically naive person. He is a cynical grotesque ignorant disgusting creature accompanied by a wild Herd of miserable irresponsible consultants and a swarm of "puppet politicians" who do not have a clue of what to do for their followers.
Coronavirus is not a "table game". From a humanitarian point of view it is mandatory that both the government and the citizens of the Country, must obey the INTERNATIONAL MEDICAL COMMUNITY HEALTH INSTRUCTIONS so we can all have a chance to hope for a better tomorrow.- 
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: ShadySue on March 19, 2020, 07:12
My sister manages a student hall of residence.
One of her German postgraduate students (not registered in any way as having special needs) shouted down from her third floor room to the handyman to tell, not ask, him to help her with a box. This would be well outside his remit in any case, but now he's just dealing with emergencies. In any case, all requests for his legitmate help have to be submitted via the office.
So he declined and she complained to my sister, who explained that it is not in his remit to do this, he is only attending emergencies, they were adhering to social distancing, referred to all the CV guidelines ...
So the student has taken her complaint right up the chain in the University, getting a similar answer every time, and has now posted on several German and international student sites complaining about the unhelpfulness of the university, and advising students never to apply there - and the Uni is already looking at a £58 million deficit due to Coronavirus.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: trabuco on March 19, 2020, 07:19
I have seen that the UK is close to us now. 2500, maybe our numbers last week.

I'm very sorry.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: jonbull on March 19, 2020, 07:23
italuy was the first to have lot of cases because italy like cores tested people..spain did nothing like france uk germany, because italy cares of people especially old people,. other country care of money, especially one country like spain with an economy much much weaker thant that of italy, and with family saving much much inferior....spain even blocking italy entrance have tons of workers coming from china and other infected area, so th virus would have been sprea even without italy....for example in italy there are zillions of chines people nobody seems testing positive....the big problem of spain france germany is they block everything ten days afte italy...the biggest area of spread in italy is bergamo...remeber champions league match atalanta valecia in february in milan ? 50000 people from bergamo gather inmilan that's why they have the higher number of death....in spain football run till end february, nothing stopped....in spain there will be much much worse situation than italy...even germany and france risk more deaths...i don't even consider russia and ukraine cause it's clear they are lying to population about everything like always, in those country really a million death is the norm in this case and not a big complaint if they can save economy....putin care only about its money, that's why he lies, already russia is fighting an oil battle with arab country, imagine together with coronavirus? russi alike in donetsk war said the same...no coronavirus,...but why they are building a giant hospital outside moscow? clearly for richer people, the old will be left dying for sure.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: jonbull on March 19, 2020, 07:23
in italy 40000 test first week february in france 2000.....italy care other not and now they want widespread the concept it's italian fault the widespread of coronavirus.....
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: jonbull on March 19, 2020, 07:26
empty streets,closed borders...

If that had happened two months ago we would be much more safe today, but as always the money and the economy is on top priority for the politics and for the strongest men, they are just too late, The UK do the maximum to delay even more all measures, so stupid...

In Spain many people said to the criminal government "close our borders to italian, korean and chinese flights. Stop the propagation, we have a lot of tourists from these countries".This is not xenophobia or hate, It's common sense.

PM said "It's impossible one case of coronavirus in our country". Bizarre but true. Then, italian tourists began to spread the virus.

Meanwhile our chinese population (we have a lot) had a great behaviour, more than spaniards, they quarantine themselves to stop fear and propagation. Amazing. Proud of them, they had seen the situation in China and are smarter than we are. They closed shops and went home for several weeks.

After that the criminal government allowed massive gatherings on 8M, with the country under health alert and a lot of cases in Madrid. Thousands of people on Madrid streets, party time.

Today we have 14k infected and 741 deads. Our elderly people is dying for dozens in several places.

28 infected for every 100.000 people.

you cannot stop it...you can only close people at home till something happen...but spain economy is so week that if it close 2 months like in italy people will be on the street to look for food....italy is a country with 2.700 billions of saving in bank....spain not even comparable...it's a pretty young economy, in the 80s they look like albania as economy, so closing borders and econy in pain means go back to 80s.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on March 19, 2020, 07:32
empty streets,closed borders...

If that had happened two months ago we would be much more safe today, but as always the money and the economy is on top priority for the politics and for the strongest men, they are just too late, The UK do the maximum to delay even more all measures, so stupid...

When the next election rolls around I hope everyone remembers the UK government's mismanagement and refusal to listen the WHO even when they were begging them to take stronger measures.

And also take a good look in the mirror if they voted for Tory austerity measures in the past that have left the NHS absolutely crippled (with half the beds it had 50 years ago).

Today the UK has 103 deaths vs Germany's 31 even with Germany's massive land borders making control of movement so much more difficult.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Pauws99 on March 19, 2020, 07:37
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/18/coronavirus-uk-expert-advice-wrong (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/18/coronavirus-uk-expert-advice-wrong) This seems to sum it up.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: john_woodcock on March 19, 2020, 08:00
"Today the UK has 103 deaths vs Germany's 31 even with Germany's massive land borders making control of movement so much more difficult"

Compared to Italy's 2978, France's 264 and Spain's 767. Let's get a bit of perspective here and stop making cheap political points out of a crisis.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on March 19, 2020, 08:16
"Today the UK has 103 deaths vs Germany's 31 even with Germany's massive land borders making control of movement so much more difficult"

Compared to Italy's 2978, France's 264 and Spain's 767. Let's get a bit of perspective here and stop making cheap political points out of a crisis.

Yeah we are a few weeks behind Italy (also I think your numbers may be off I am seeing different numbers from JHU but they're near enough)

Now is precisely the time to be holding politicians to account. When lives are at stake if we don't, and when the lessons can be learnt that will save lives in future.

If not now, when? When we aren't the middle of a crisis and everyone's back to ignoring the experts and putting their heads in the ****ing sand?

Articles were being written every few weeks over the last few years the about coming next big pandemic and how we need to be investing back then if we want to do anything to prevent it but we, what was it?, "had enough of experts"

This is politics. This is when people should be thinking about the real life effects their votes have. Of course they wont, so don't worry yourself too much about it, just ignore us and move on.

I'm glad articles like that Guardian one are being written at least, so people wont forget that we knew at the time what the governments indecisiveness was doing and this can't just be glossed over. 

EDIT an example of the sort of blatant warnings we were getting about this that were being ignored, precisely because people do ignore this sort of thing when not in the middle of a crisis (this one from the US but there have been a few from the BBC too):

"
Stephen Schwartz @AtomicAnalyst
10 May 2018
When the next pandemic occurs (and make no mistake, it will) and the federal government is unable to respond in a coordinated and effective fashion to protect the lives of US citizens and others, this decision by John Bolton and Donald Trump will be why."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2018/05/10/top-white-house-official-in-charge-of-pandemic-response-exits-abruptly/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2018/05/10/top-white-house-official-in-charge-of-pandemic-response-exits-abruptly/)

"
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: jonbull on March 19, 2020, 08:19
In two weeks uk will have thousand death... till last wedk stadoum full of people.... good luck
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Pauws99 on March 19, 2020, 08:29
"Today the UK has 103 deaths vs Germany's 31 even with Germany's massive land borders making control of movement so much more difficult"

Compared to Italy's 2978, France's 264 and Spain's 767. Let's get a bit of perspective here and stop making cheap political points out of a crisis.
You really don't get how infection and exponential growth works.  Come back in 4 weeks and talk about perspective. Its not cheap political points scoring to point out Englands approach is an outlier compared with the rest of the world and their experts. People are rightly very concerned that we are not acting quickly enough every move so far has been forced by events. People were talking about pespective 4 weeks ago dismissing this as "just flu". We had 31 deaths yesterday. The maths show it it doubles every 4 days then in 28 days we will have 4000 in a day.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: pics2 on March 19, 2020, 08:57
I just got an email from 123rf. They told me to talk to my plants.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Uncle Pete on March 19, 2020, 08:59
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/18/coronavirus-uk-expert-advice-wrong (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/18/coronavirus-uk-expert-advice-wrong) This seems to sum it up.

Watch for articles, even from the opposition, saying they approve of what Trump is doing. No really, in times of trouble, they actually can play together nicely.

Wouldn't this be nice? Claimed and proven are a distance apart.  :)

"Per Japan’s state broadcaster NHK report, the Chinese medical authorities have claimed a Japanese drug that treats new strains of influenza to be effective for COVID-19 patients.

Favipiravir had produced positive outcomes during clinical trials conducted in Shenzen as well as the COVID-19’s epicenter Wuhan, according to Zhang Xinmin, director of China’s National Center for Biotechnology Development."

Numbers are climbing everywhere, this is going to get much worse, before the peak is reached and cases level off.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: MicroVet on March 19, 2020, 09:47
"Today the UK has 103 deaths vs Germany's 31 even with Germany's massive land borders making control of movement so much more difficult"

Compared to Italy's 2978, France's 264 and Spain's 767. Let's get a bit of perspective here and stop making cheap political points out of a crisis.

I can only say that you are delusional. Reality will fall on you like a ton of bricks.

I'm hyper-critical of the people and politicians of my own country, but here we've been implementing measures with weeks in advance compared to other countries in Europe based on China and Italy examples. Compared to UK I think it measures in months...

In fact the government has been playing catch-up with the people, who by their own initiative took self-protective measures and have been demanding stronger decisions from the government, which happened and will be stronger in the next few weeks.

Proportionally, we even have more infections per million inhabitants than UK, although considering the attitude from the UK government how trustworthy are those current 2600 cases? Our number of deaths is almost nonexistent compared with the 108 fatalities in UK, which discredits the 2600 number of infected in UK.

Considering the number of deaths, either the British authorities are completely oblivious regarding the real number of infected people which will soon demolish your NHS, or your NHS is absolute crap for having such percentage of deaths.

Since I'm willing to believe that the problem is not in your NHS that leaves completely incompetent politicians. In either case it shows that UK is adrift and I cannot imagine what could happen there since you don't even have the warm weather and sun exposure to help slow down the virus.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on March 19, 2020, 10:30
You can ignore the confirmed cases numbers because the UK has also pretty much not been testing compared to lot of other countries. Another thing the WHO was pleading with them to do more of.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Pauws99 on March 19, 2020, 11:39
You can ignore the confirmed cases numbers because the UK has also pretty much not been testing compared to lot of other countries. Another thing the WHO was pleading with them to do more of.
Testing regimes vary widely so I think its probably an unreliable statistic for comparison. Its probably something that can't keep pace while the cases are accelerating. Its accepted in the UK that only those that have potentialy serious effects are being tested. If we have mild indications we are just told to self isolate.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Deyan Georgiev Photography on March 19, 2020, 12:55
I know personaly a lot of spanish photographers from years, I have at least 100 000 km travel in Spain, I passed so many villages and cities and I love this country like my second home. Great people, be strong!
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Tenebroso on March 19, 2020, 12:58
Spain is poor. Yes. And from Spain we know that there is the possibility that in summer, infections will drop. We will soon face the second wave of the Covid in the coming winter. Forget about the economy and start taking action as politicians try to calm down with jokes on social media.


Objective not to spread. We will invoice when this ends. Many countries with record families of indebtedness and no social support will resemble Spain, but Spain in 1939. The policy must give way to the cabinet of health experts.


We are land with a history. And we are the country committed to saving lives. Then when this is over, there will be politics.

Experts have already announced that the virus does not understand borders or the economy. Of course the policy on social networks does not prevent contagion.


I am not going to discuss the level of SECURITY in its broad concept that we have, nor am I going to argue that until recently we were among the happiest countries on the planet.


While the politicians are beginning to live up to their citizens, take good care of yourselves.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: trabuco on March 20, 2020, 03:54
I know personaly a lot of spanish photographers from years, I have at least 100 000 km travel in Spain, I passed so many villages and cities and I love this country like my second home. Great people, be strong!

We stay strong, we are much better than our politicians since the XVII Century, our first political corruption Law I think  ;D ;D ;D

Hope you come again soon to visit us. Foreigners are always welcome here.

I feel the same with Italy. Last time I was there was on October, a ten days trip in Roma and Firenze and I am completely in love with the country and with the people. They are incredible friendly everywhere, really feel at home there all the time.

Can't believe the situation now.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Pauws99 on March 20, 2020, 08:32
I know personaly a lot of spanish photographers from years, I have at least 100 000 km travel in Spain, I passed so many villages and cities and I love this country like my second home. Great people, be strong!

We stay strong, we are much better than our politicians since the XVII Century, our first political corruption Law I think  ;D ;D ;D

Hope you come again soon to visit us. Foreigners are always welcome here.

I feel the same with Italy. Last time I was there was on October, a ten days trip in Roma and Firenze and I am completely in love with the country and with the people. They are incredible friendly everywhere, really feel at home there all the time.

Can't believe the situation now.
Was in Rome last year..hard to imagine what such a vibrant city must feel like now.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: trabuco on March 20, 2020, 09:31
Nothing in the world like Rome.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Visualab on March 20, 2020, 10:02
Spain is poor. Yes. And from Spain we know that there is the possibility that in summer, infections will drop. We will soon face the second wave of the Covid in the coming winter. Forget about the economy and start taking action as politicians try to calm down with jokes on social media.


Objective not to spread. We will invoice when this ends. Many countries with record families of indebtedness and no social support will resemble Spain, but Spain in 1939. The policy must give way to the cabinet of health experts.


We are land with a history. And we are the country committed to saving lives. Then when this is over, there will be politics.

Experts have already announced that the virus does not understand borders or the economy. Of course the policy on social networks does not prevent contagion.


I am not going to discuss the level of SECURITY in its broad concept that we have, nor am I going to argue that until recently we were among the happiest countries on the planet.


While the politicians are beginning to live up to their citizens, take good care of yourselves.
It's not all about politicians...it's the capitalism that doesn't work anymore and we will fall with it...
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Uncle Pete on March 20, 2020, 11:20
You can ignore the confirmed cases numbers because the UK has also pretty much not been testing compared to lot of other countries. Another thing the WHO was pleading with them to do more of.
Testing regimes vary widely so I think its probably an unreliable statistic for comparison. Its probably something that can't keep pace while the cases are accelerating. Its accepted in the UK that only those that have potentialy serious effects are being tested. If we have mild indications we are just told to self isolate.

Good points both. China just said "no new cases reported" Which the last word is most important. Plus what both of you pointed out, if someone isn't tested, they aren't confirmed. Self Quarantine in home if you suspect you have the virus, is a good plan, but none of those are counted.

Please folks, stop blaming, accusing, and debating politics, and stick to the virus COVID-19 problem?

Or maybe blame the cause, which seems to be ignored and some are defending, poor sanitary conditions, open markets with animal slaughtering. We can't call this the Wuhan virus, because we're all being politically correct? Yet, there's a never ending attack on just about any leaders or people in power, now "capitalism". LOL

COVID-19 came from China (a Communist country by the way), wet market, where they slaughter live animals in public. And now people are calling for Trump, Putin, Boris and others to fall because of that? Some are blaming humans for being on the planet, global warming, and the vegetarians even more the uppity self-righteous Vegans who blame anyone who eats meat. I read how God is punishing us, how this is a plot, blaming the East, The West or someone else, depending on where the person lives or their political leanings.

What I'm asking it this. Can we stop the endless, useless, politics and blame? COVID-19 is here. Attacking others, other countries, or leaders isn't doing anything but create division and anger, when we need to be more together. Blame or hate is not a cure for anything.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Tenebroso on March 20, 2020, 12:06
Sure, don't blame the politicians and the virus came from China. OKAY. Let's not talk about politics. Nor of capitalism. Do something about the virus. But if you think that current leaders who look the other way and promote hatred is the way, do what you want. The Spanish flu was not born in Spain. Nor is it a laboratory virus. Stay home and vote for whomever you want, the whole, when you have elections. It seems that at the moment you are not going to change your thoughts.

But there are many who see the reality of leaders. If they are leading it is because the people have decided so. When each town is called on to speak, they will judge. Blame the virus? No. Guilt for not being prepared as a society. Communists? They have more freedom than many democracies dominated by the mafias of manipulation and deception. Do not talk about politics and talk about Chinese virus? Well, have a civil war and then a world war. Do what you want.

Keep up the hate, hate only breeds more hate. It is a drug. Thank goodness that the surveys are dismantling the lies. Here only the news and information are worth.

I'm with you, let's not talk about politics. For viruses, it seems that the Chinese system works better live. And they will not always revive that system. Instead, other countries are doomed to their corrupt democracies of manipulation and deception, precisely as surgeons.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: obj owl on March 20, 2020, 13:18
You can ignore the confirmed cases numbers because the UK has also pretty much not been testing compared to lot of other countries. Another thing the WHO was pleading with them to do more of.
Testing regimes vary widely so I think its probably an unreliable statistic for comparison. Its probably something that can't keep pace while the cases are accelerating. Its accepted in the UK that only those that have potentialy serious effects are being tested. If we have mild indications we are just told to self isolate.

Good points both. China just said "no new cases reported" Which the last word is most important. Plus what both of you pointed out, if someone isn't tested, they aren't confirmed. Self Quarantine in home if you suspect you have the virus, is a good plan, but none of those are counted.

Please folks, stop blaming, accusing, and debating politics, and stick to the virus COVID-19 problem?

Or maybe blame the cause, which seems to be ignored and some are defending, poor sanitary conditions, open markets with animal slaughtering. We can't call this the Wuhan virus, because we're all being politically correct? Yet, there's a never ending attack on just about any leaders or people in power, now "capitalism". LOL

COVID-19 came from China (a Communist country by the way), wet market, where they slaughter live animals in public. And now people are calling for Trump, Putin, Boris and others to fall because of that? Some are blaming humans for being on the planet, global warming, and the vegetarians even more the uppity self-righteous Vegans who blame anyone who eats meat. I read how God is punishing us, how this is a plot, blaming the East, The West or someone else, depending on where the person lives or their political leanings.

What I'm asking it this. Can we stop the endless, useless, politics and blame? COVID-19 is here. Attacking others, other countries, or leaders isn't doing anything but create division and anger, when we need to be more together. Blame or hate is not a cure for anything.

I am not a fan of China and often have a pop at them, but they did what you want us to do, they got the people together to fight this as one. Sure they have the propaganda machine for it, but few other countries leaders have come close and some have only self preservation as a motive to do anything.  If you want to close down debate and opinion we cannot move towards your goal of healing divisions and moving forward as one, things will just fester.

Stay the feck away from people and this will be over in no time.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Zero Talent on March 20, 2020, 13:19
You can ignore the confirmed cases numbers because the UK has also pretty much not been testing compared to lot of other countries. Another thing the WHO was pleading with them to do more of.
Testing regimes vary widely so I think its probably an unreliable statistic for comparison. Its probably something that can't keep pace while the cases are accelerating. Its accepted in the UK that only those that have potentialy serious effects are being tested. If we have mild indications we are just told to self isolate.

Good points both. China just said "no new cases reported" Which the last word is most important. Plus what both of you pointed out, if someone isn't tested, they aren't confirmed. Self Quarantine in home if you suspect you have the virus, is a good plan, but none of those are counted.

Please folks, stop blaming, accusing, and debating politics, and stick to the virus COVID-19 problem?

Or maybe blame the cause, which seems to be ignored and some are defending, poor sanitary conditions, open markets with animal slaughtering. We can't call this the Wuhan virus, because we're all being politically correct? Yet, there's a never ending attack on just about any leaders or people in power, now "capitalism". LOL

COVID-19 came from China (a Communist country by the way), wet market, where they slaughter live animals in public. And now people are calling for Trump, Putin, Boris and others to fall because of that? Some are blaming humans for being on the planet, global warming, and the vegetarians even more the uppity self-righteous Vegans who blame anyone who eats meat. I read how God is punishing us, how this is a plot, blaming the East, The West or someone else, depending on where the person lives or their political leanings.

What I'm asking it this. Can we stop the endless, useless, politics and blame? COVID-19 is here. Attacking others, other countries, or leaders isn't doing anything but create division and anger, when we need to be more together. Blame or hate is not a cure for anything.

All good points, Pete.

However, there is a problem when the world is calling it the "Corona" virus and well-known politicians, insist on changing its name to the "Chinese" virus, going even against their own speechwriters, just to score political points. That's not right. It does nothing but pouring gas on the fire.

(https://www.washingtonpost.com/resizer/Kgp8_UAetrztRJs1j5y-dJQ3CD8=/1800x0/filters:quality(100)/arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost/public/BKYQ7UTKBQI6VMMZHKLZTRKFCI.jpg)
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: MicroVet on March 20, 2020, 14:44
Politics are in the middle of all this. It's impossible not to discuss it especially because of the impact it had in the national health services of several countries which are now requested to act against this catastrophe, underfunded, understaffed and underequiped.

I won't even elongate but it's impossible not to consider the implementation of the Euro currency that wrecked the weakest economies of the EU because it has been managed in benefit of the largest powers.

Or the opening of the EU borders and lift of import taxes of products made in China, India, Pakistan and other countries that competed with some EU industry, especially in the poorer countries used for their cheap labor. European countries and industries that were unable to compete with the low costs of the Asian slave labor and no safety or environment regulations and costs. That decimated a chunk of some European countries industry. A situation that threw thousands in unemployment, stopping them to produce wealth, paying taxes and becoming a burden on national welfare with the unemployment subsidies and other help.

If you consider tax evasion where the rich hide countless billions in off-shores so they won't pay taxes, leaving the financing of the countries dependent on the taxes over work,  making that a lot of services get the funding cut and work less efficiently. All with the complacency of the EU and national politicians who benefit from favors a corruption.

Or the banks and bankers that behaved like criminals, but in the end it was the State bailing them out with the taxes of the workers, again demolishing the national budget, and even more cuts in public services.

Also, the public national health services being sabotaged so the private systems can destroy them and impose private medicine as the only alternative just to profit on human suffering like in the US, crippling the quality of the public services to the population. Public services that now are the exact ones called to help and not the privates.

Or the decisions politicians are making taking in consideration primarily their popularity and consequences in the next elections, instead of public interest.

Etc., etc., etc.

As I said, it's impossible to look at his just as an health issue and not diving right into politics because many of the deaths will be a direct consequence of past political decisions.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: trabuco on March 20, 2020, 17:22
The frenchs have a great invention to be used on the politicians. When this situacion ends we should buy them instead of masks.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Uncle Pete on March 21, 2020, 08:04
There are people dying, there's a pandemic, potemtially millions of people will die and the big story for some is Oh My, Oh My,  "Trump said the word China". Honest there are more important issues in the world, especially more than following around some buffoon to poke at him for every word and flaw someone can find.

Actually what's more upsetting than words, is there are people all over the world, who aren't taking this seriously. I mean, they are not staying in, or some are partying in groups. Sick people are going to work or don't care if they infect others or spread the decease.

That's more important than what Putin did, Boris did, or Trump said. Keep in mind that China now claims no new cases reported? Does anyone actually believe that? This is not going to pass that easily, there's no miracle drug, and it's going to get much worse, everywhere for everyone, before anything gets better.

Enough hate politics, how about the actual situation?

Facts: Incubation period is thought to be as long as 14 days. More than 97 percent of people who contract SARS-CoV-2 show symptoms within 11.5 days of exposure. The average incubation period seems to be around 5 days.

That means the lock downs that starts on the 15th in many places, people won't know they have been infected until the 26th of March. We aren't there yet. Which using that average, anyone infected could have been spreading the disease for almost two weeks, before the 15th and people who caught it... don't know yet!

As of today:
Active cases
177,384
Recovered cases
93,189
Fatal cases
11,822

USA cases, 19,800 but as many as 70,000 Americans could be confirmed as infected with coronavirus by the end of next week. I know there are some good math people here. If 20,000 is going to be 70,000 then 282,395 world cases, will likely become 1 million cases.

So you can write nasty messages about world leaders, and complain about what they failed to do, or what they are doing that someone here thinks they shouldn't do, but there's much more going on, that will threaten our lives and friends, which is seriously more important than politics or correcting a word in a speech.

Also a note, if what people are saying is true, and I believe them, that only people in care who are seriously ill are tested, the confirmed cases are much lower than the number of people who already have been infected. The possibility that reported cases is much lower than actual cases, is very real.

Please stay at home.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: MicroVet on March 21, 2020, 08:50
Uncle Pete, it's obvious that a lot of important things are happening regarding the spread of the disease, as well the need to educate people about safety behaviors and procedures, etc.

But much of the problems we're facing now are due to the decisions of the politicians in power right now, and in power over the last decades. Politicians who are resisting to act now because that will show how wrong they have been on countless issues, and ultimately will show them as irresponsible murderers.

So, talking about politic is what is forcing them to act. In my country the government and authorities are walking behind the demands of the people. It's the public opinion that's forcing them to act. That, forced our government to act with weeks in advance regarding other European countries but people feel they acted too late.

That happened because they felt political pressure. Our National Health Service has been under vicious attack for decades so the private medicine companies takes over. The current government and the party that supports it (among other powerful parties) have been one of the allies of the private medicine sabotaging and boycotting our NHS.

Now, reality has proven how invaluable our NHS is, and doctors and nurses are almost heroes and we're far from the worst yet. People are raving for our NHS and that is a political action because it weakens the plan to destroy it, and forces the government to backtrack breaking who knows how many sordid agreements they had with private medical companies.

As I said, we must discuss fight and prevention of the disease, but decisions are made by politicians which a lot of time decide based on politics and not public health and public interest.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Uncle Pete on March 21, 2020, 10:02
I don't believe that the leaders of the world are coming here to read our opinions. LOL  ;D That's what I mean.

I don't know much about NHS, I see opinions on both sides from people who actually live where you are. I trust those more than some political writer here, with a personal agenda. Same goes for people who have never been to the US, telling us about who we are and how we live.

I mean I've been to Texas and hardly anyone wears cowboy hats or has a six gun on their belt.  ;D I can understand the stereotype of an American tourist who expects the world to cater to them, and in English. My limited experience out of the country people said "you don't act like an American, we kind of like you." (which I took as a huge compliment.)

I don't see "demands of the people" doing much in any country. Maybe pretending they listen or lip service, but most of the time it's politics as usual. They think they know what's best, and that's what happens. Elect me and I'll... then business as usual, empty promises.

I'll try a test, if any world leaders or staff or congress person or their advisors are reading here, for what to do about the Coronavirus outbreak, please reveal yourself? Must be a real name account.


Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Tenebroso on March 21, 2020, 14:47
Understood, the day someone does something, they will have to do it, hopefully sooner than later, you can only speak well of management, the rest are not good patriots. It is understood.

The international community will not criticize China's decision this summer. If he helps you or not, no one will criticize him.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: fritz on March 21, 2020, 19:35
https://www.facebook.com/darinkamontico/videos/2788781954541355/ (https://www.facebook.com/darinkamontico/videos/2788781954541355/)
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Tenebroso on March 22, 2020, 00:03
https://www.facebook.com/darinkamontico/videos/2788781954541355/ (https://www.facebook.com/darinkamontico/videos/2788781954541355/)


Ufff, Thanks. Muchas gracias. Molte grazie
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Microstockphoto on March 22, 2020, 12:25
This is so crazy, now I can't tell you the future but as of now you stand a better chance of dying of heart disease, car accident, weather related injuries, cancer and the list goes on. This is still a very minor virus at this point, you still have more to fear from the flu!!

minor virus?

7% mortality...is minor? good luck

What's your source for that figure?


"What is the mortality rate of the new coronavirus?
It is probably about or a bit less than 1%. Much higher figures have been flying about, but the chief medical officer, Chris Whitty, is one of those who believes it will prove to be 1% or lower. The World Health Organization’s director general, Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, talked of 3.4%, but his figure was calculated by dividing the number of deaths by the number of officially confirmed cases. We know there are many more mild cases that do not get to hospital and are not being counted, which would bring the mortality rate significantly down.
Deaths are highest in the elderly, with very low rates among younger people, although medical staff who treat patients and get exposed to a lot of virus are thought to be more at risk. But even among the over-80s, 90% will recover."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/10/coronavirus-facts-mortality-rate-is-there-cure (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/10/coronavirus-facts-mortality-rate-is-there-cure)

also see: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51674743 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51674743)
and https://abcnews.go.com/Health/early-mortality-rates-covid-19-misleading-experts/story?id=69477312 (https://abcnews.go.com/Health/early-mortality-rates-covid-19-misleading-experts/story?id=69477312)

death rate at the moment is 8% of closed cases,
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Uncle Pete on March 22, 2020, 12:27
Understood, the day someone does something, they will have to do it, hopefully sooner than later, you can only speak well of management, the rest are not good patriots. It is understood.

The international community will not criticize China's decision this summer. If he helps you or not, no one will criticize him.

All is fair if someone needs to criticize, when necessary, when important, when exposing abuse of power or illegal actions. Not when it's nothing but looking for things to be wrong, picking and attacking, just because someone is from the wrong party or you don't like them. That's the difference.

In some other countries people don't have that right, or they could get arrested, shipped off to camps, or made invisible never to be seen again.

One of the patients where Valerie works, just died from COVID-19, that's only the 5th death in this state, right here in a small town. The nursing home is on lock down. Needless to say, that's much closer than anyone wants, or would expect. Were small and rural, the guy was never out of the building, he's a resident. How did he catch it?

She won't be working there for awhile, but still has in home clients.

Updated information, incubation period is now observed to be 5 to 14 days and 11.5 is the average time for symptoms to show.

There's so much that the world doesn't know about this... yet. What I'd consider as a good bit of information, is how long are people contagious to others? What time period, from catching to symptoms. That's very important!


death rate at the moment is 8% of closed cases,

This too will vary by locations, health care available. Unfortunately people who are in in high population centers and people living in poverty will be hit harder.

That 8% figure is Italy, lets not all be spreading doomsday numbers please:

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-death-rate-by-country-current-fatalities-compared-to-cases-2020-3 (https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-death-rate-by-country-current-fatalities-compared-to-cases-2020-3)

USA 6%, Switzerland .5 %

Wuhan, China, where the outbreak began in December, was about 1.4%.

A big ball of we don't know.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: MicroVet on March 22, 2020, 13:49
According to the site worldmeters the global percentage of deaths is 13% of all closed cases.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/)

Currently there are countries where the number of deaths surpasses by a a huge amount the recovered cases like US, UK or Netherlands.

And then there's the differences in the way each country counts the deaths. In some countries people dying at home will not be subjected to autopsy, and will only be investigated if it has any relation to a known case of coronavirus. So, many deaths by this virus will not be counted because at the time of death it wasn't diagnosed with the virus or anyone close to it.

This means that the death toll could be much higher than official number will record.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Uncle Pete on March 22, 2020, 14:18
According to the site worldmeters the global percentage of deaths is 13% of all closed cases.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/)

Currently there are countries where the number of deaths surpasses by a a huge amount the recovered cases like US, UK or Netherlands.

And then there's the differences in the way each country counts the deaths. In some countries people dying at home will not be subjected to autopsy, and will only be investigated if it has any relation to a known case of coronavirus. So, many deaths by this virus will not be counted because at the time of death it wasn't diagnosed with the virus or anyone close to it.

This means that the death toll could be much higher than official number will record.

Absolutely correct. There are people who have the virus with no signs, (passing it on to more people) there are some with minor problems, and they might never be tested or counted. There are people staying at home, who don't have the virus, but think they have, who also won't be tested.

There could be deaths that also aren't counted.

That's why I keep saying, we don't actually know. Too early to have any valid numbers and agreeing with what you say, we might never know absolute factual details. But the best information will be after the pandemic is over, not now when there hasn't been a peak yet.

https://www.bing.com/covid (https://www.bing.com/covid)

Currently .05% of confirmed cases result in death. .28% are recovered. Way to early to know anything. This is still exploding, numbers climbing, and we haven't seen the amount of destruction that will follow.

Watch that total confirmed cases number, it's going to be exponential as more are infected and more testing is available. I hate to say this, but looking at a month, before a peak, might be optimistic. Way too early to make any intelligent scientific predictions.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Pauws99 on March 22, 2020, 14:52
This is the most comprehensive site I've found https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries. (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries.) One other thing to bear in mind is that when health care systems come under the kind of pressure Italy are experiencing people will be dying prematurely from other causes. Another big concern will be the mental health issues this is contributing to and will probably cause issues for years. Now this is going exponential in many countries as predicted the people saying "its only flu" will be going quiet.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: obj owl on March 22, 2020, 15:36
According to the site worldmeters the global percentage of deaths is 13% of all closed cases.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/)

Currently there are countries where the number of deaths surpasses by a a huge amount the recovered cases like US, UK or Netherlands.

And then there's the differences in the way each country counts the deaths. In some countries people dying at home will not be subjected to autopsy, and will only be investigated if it has any relation to a known case of coronavirus. So, many deaths by this virus will not be counted because at the time of death it wasn't diagnosed with the virus or anyone close to it.

This means that the death toll could be much higher than official number will record.

Absolutely correct. There are people who have the virus with no signs, (passing it on to more people) there are some with minor problems, and they might never be tested or counted. There are people staying at home, who don't have the virus, but think they have, who also won't be tested.

There could be deaths that also aren't counted.

That's why I keep saying, we don't actually know. Too early to have any valid numbers and agreeing with what you say, we might never know absolute factual details. But the best information will be after the pandemic is over, not now when there hasn't been a peak yet.

https://www.bing.com/covid (https://www.bing.com/covid)

Currently .05% of confirmed cases result in death. .28% are recovered. Way to early to know anything. This is still exploding, numbers climbing, and we haven't seen the amount of destruction that will follow.

Watch that total confirmed cases number, it's going to be exponential as more are infected and more testing is available. I hate to say this, but looking at a month, before a peak, might be optimistic. Way too early to make any intelligent scientific predictions.

They are bringing out an antibody test to test for those who have had it, I think it was pushed out quick because it would be useful for herd immunity theory.  Anyway, we should have better figures when it's done, but current estimates from China suggest 1.4%, but other countries may do better for having prior warning if they managed to flatten the curve and not overload their health systems.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: cascoly on March 22, 2020, 16:03
trump's reaction has already caused enormous problems - the failure to ramp up supplies when the china outbreak started is leading to massive shortages of supplies and testing. he eliminated the obama group studying & preparing  for pandemics and ignored more recent studies wargaming the effects of a pandemic - for months he claimed it was a democratic & media hoax only to turn around and say he was the first to call it a pandemic and that nobody could have predicted what's happening now.  instead he continues  to dogwhistle about the chinese virus (WHO long ago stopped using country of outbreak in its description of new diseases)

these re-actions aren't irrelevant - they've caused many to underestimate the dangers, with entire states failing to take any pro-active steps.  the current reported cases in the US is low, given the lack of adequate testing, while trump continues to lie about testing being available to all (or maybe he's just referring to all vice-presidents, senators and other politicians)

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/infectious-disease-experts-dont-know-how-bad-the-coronavirus-is-going-to-get-either/
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Tenebroso on March 22, 2020, 16:31
What I observe for my ex-American girlfriend, politics has completely killed us and I think we will not overcome it, the media, social networks, forums, is the following conclusion of a percentage each day less of the American population that argues: A) the fault lies with the others. B) the damage is not so serious. C) Responsible for the media, the Health Organization, CNN and all the countries that punish with hate speech crime that censor the true truth of the authentic Patriots.
Understood, thanks.


Do not worry. The truth is not going to be able to hide, the problem is the denial of reality, in a time of disinformation for money. A real social problem.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Zero Talent on March 22, 2020, 19:51
trump's reaction has already caused enormous problems - the failure to ramp up supplies when the china outbreak started is leading to massive shortages of supplies and testing. he eliminated the obama group studying & preparing  for pandemics and ignored more recent studies wargaming the effects of a pandemic - for months he claimed it was a democratic & media hoax only to turn around and say he was the first to call it a pandemic and that nobody could have predicted what's happening now.  instead he continues  to dogwhistle about the chinese virus (WHO long ago stopped using country of outbreak in its description of new diseases)

these re-actions aren't irrelevant - they've caused many to underestimate the dangers, with entire states failing to take any pro-active steps.  the current reported cases in the US is low, given the lack of adequate testing, while trump continues to lie about testing being available to all (or maybe he's just referring to all vice-presidents, senators and other politicians)

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/infectious-disease-experts-dont-know-how-bad-the-coronavirus-is-going-to-get-either/
Yep!
https://youtu.be/FJuIT0ojx_k

Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Tenebroso on March 22, 2020, 21:02
The more information you share, the sooner you will destroy the disinformation machinery for the money. This is saving lives. Don't share rumors, stop propaganda, not HATE. Share information, stay home and save lives. It is not a matter of cities, in rural areas, it will also come to you. Do not share HATE.
Information, you are too late, save the elderly. You owe it to every grandmother, grandfather, mother and father.

https://youtu.be/FdqrjoY5uyo

https://youtu.be/An4T0wUerRs
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Shelma1 on March 23, 2020, 07:34
You can ignore the confirmed cases numbers because the UK has also pretty much not been testing compared to lot of other countries. Another thing the WHO was pleading with them to do more of.
Testing regimes vary widely so I think its probably an unreliable statistic for comparison. Its probably something that can't keep pace while the cases are accelerating. Its accepted in the UK that only those that have potentialy serious effects are being tested. If we have mild indications we are just told to self isolate.

Good points both. China just said "no new cases reported" Which the last word is most important. Plus what both of you pointed out, if someone isn't tested, they aren't confirmed. Self Quarantine in home if you suspect you have the virus, is a good plan, but none of those are counted.

Please folks, stop blaming, accusing, and debating politics, and stick to the virus COVID-19 problem?

Or maybe blame the cause, which seems to be ignored and some are defending, poor sanitary conditions, open markets with animal slaughtering. We can't call this the Wuhan virus, because we're all being politically correct? Yet, there's a never ending attack on just about any leaders or people in power, now "capitalism". LOL

COVID-19 came from China (a Communist country by the way), wet market, where they slaughter live animals in public. And now people are calling for Trump, Putin, Boris and others to fall because of that? Some are blaming humans for being on the planet, global warming, and the vegetarians even more the uppity self-righteous Vegans who blame anyone who eats meat. I read how God is punishing us, how this is a plot, blaming the East, The West or someone else, depending on where the person lives or their political leanings.

What I'm asking it this. Can we stop the endless, useless, politics and blame? COVID-19 is here. Attacking others, other countries, or leaders isn't doing anything but create division and anger, when we need to be more together. Blame or hate is not a cure for anything.

Yes, but we’ll never learn and change our ways if we don’t look at history and see that many of our pandemics...the Spanish flu, HIV, SARS, Mad Cow, H1N1, Covid-19...come from our obsession with eating meat. We catch things from chickens, pigs, bats, cows, monkeys, not because we happen run across them, but because we pack them and ourselves into relatively cramped spaces and slaughter them, exposing ourselves to their diseases in unnatural conditions. And of course, here in the U.S. and increasingly around the world (as our crappy diet takes over) we also suffer from conditions like obesity, diabetes, cancer and heart disease, all caused in large part by eating too much meat and dairy.

Not to mention climate change and mass extinction, also caused by tearing down forests in order to raise animals for slaughter.

We’re killing ourselves and the planet by not eating what doctors and nutritionists recommend, which is a plant-heavy diet.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Asthebelltolls on March 23, 2020, 07:51
Pure and simple, the virus is the result of 8 billion humans crowded on a very small, blue planet. And what's the answer? Live a more orderly, safe lifestyle so we can try to handle 16 billion people? 20 billion? As long as we think we can continue to consume and expand and take, Mother Nature will try to interject and balance the negative effects we're having on this planet.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Lizard on March 23, 2020, 18:46
Pure and simple, the virus is the result of 8 billion humans crowded on a very small, blue planet. And what's the answer? Live a more orderly, safe lifestyle so we can try to handle 16 billion people? 20 billion? As long as we think we can continue to consume and expand and take, Mother Nature will try to interject and balance the negative effects we're having on this planet.

I cannot fully agree on this.

Pure and simple, it could have also been created by men for various logical reasons from depopulation, medical profit all the way to slowing the competition down or just a case of bio weapon gone wrong.

So what is the solution?  Reproduction control and other creepy things that go along. Eugenics? Whats next ? Reproduction of only healthy, beautiful and rich ? Picking into genes "in vitro" to improve intelligence and appearance of rich sons and daughters leaving poor people children to be their stupid ugly and limited workforce? Cause that is already just behind the corner and that is supposed to save the nature ?

This planet can support waaaaay more people than now but other things need to change starting from how we treat the nature and living in symbiosis with it, not *s.u.c.k.i.n.g  the life out of it for profit that is also unequally shared in systems we use.

Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Tenebroso on March 24, 2020, 00:43
The world scientific community discards it as a laboratory. all studies claim that it is not a laboratory. COVID-19 is far from being a perfect virus. At the moment the beginning is not found, perhaps it will never be found or it will take years. From there, reading I read it every minute in the USA and following the information from the USA, I definitely believe that we deserve extinction as a species.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Video-StockOrg on March 24, 2020, 02:12
trump's reaction has already caused enormous problems - the failure to ramp up supplies when the china outbreak started is leading to massive shortages of supplies and testing. he eliminated the obama group studying & preparing  for pandemics and ignored more recent studies wargaming the effects of a pandemic - for months he claimed it was a democratic & media hoax only to turn around and say he was the first to call it a pandemic and that nobody could have predicted what's happening now.  instead he continues  to dogwhistle about the chinese virus (WHO long ago stopped using country of outbreak in its description of new diseases)

these re-actions aren't irrelevant - they've caused many to underestimate the dangers, with entire states failing to take any pro-active steps.  the current reported cases in the US is low, given the lack of adequate testing, while trump continues to lie about testing being available to all (or maybe he's just referring to all vice-presidents, senators and other politicians)

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/infectious-disease-experts-dont-know-how-bad-the-coronavirus-is-going-to-get-either/ (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/infectious-disease-experts-dont-know-how-bad-the-coronavirus-is-going-to-get-either/)

you can thank American #fakenews media for Trump's slow reaction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKq8UYYQTYA& (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKq8UYYQTYA&)
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Pauws99 on March 24, 2020, 02:45
Lets remember virusus, disease and pandemics have been around far longer than humans. This is a wake up call to make our ability to respond much better. Yes we need to look at how we can reduce the chances of us contributing to their creation but they can and inevitably will  still occur.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: SpaceStockFootage on March 24, 2020, 04:03
you can thank American #fakenews media for Trump's slow reaction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKq8UYYQTYA& (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKq8UYYQTYA&)

You can thank Donald Trump for Trump's slow reaction... he's the biggest source of fake news on the planet! Sorry, but if it's come out of his mouth, then it's more likely to be false than it is true.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Video-StockOrg on March 24, 2020, 04:15
you can thank American #fakenews media for Trump's slow reaction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKq8UYYQTYA& (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKq8UYYQTYA&)

You can thank Donald Trump for Trump's slow reaction... he's the biggest source of fake news on the planet! Sorry, but if it's come out of his mouth, then it's more likely to be false than it is true.

#TrumpDerangementSyndrome
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: SpaceStockFootage on March 24, 2020, 04:30
Not sure if Trump's deranged, but I guess he's not far off.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Lola Ginabrigeta on March 24, 2020, 08:52
you can thank American #fakenews media for Trump's slow reaction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKq8UYYQTYA& (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKq8UYYQTYA&)

You can thank Donald Trump for Trump's slow reaction... he's the biggest source of fake news on the planet! Sorry, but if it's come out of his mouth, then it's more likely to be false than it is true.

When a Trump stopped flights from China, Biden made it clear that the move was racist and xenophobic. That’s all you need to know about how Biden would have addressed the crisis. Would we now 10x or 100x the number of deaths. A scary thought.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Tenebroso on March 24, 2020, 11:58
The extreme right dictatorship championed by a poor approach to freedom of expression, results in systematic manipulation of the individual, manipulated with extraordinary precision and individualized, the level of radicalization of normal people is extraordinary. Hate is death and dictatorship. the truth cannot be hidden. You are making history. So much talent in the country for nothing, to continue proclaiming the lies of the Messiah, the one who doubts the Messiah, is not worthy of being American. Buy bullets, but online, stay at home.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Tenebroso on March 24, 2020, 12:17
They managed to deceive with the violations of Sweden, then the networks managed to get the heir to practice in the USA and then the BREXIT. We protect ourselves from Hate because we know where it leads. Your enemies, on the agenda are the Chinese, Europeans and Communists. Everyone wants to defeat Messiah. Economists warned that the economy was bad. Therefore, this management will finish its lines in history. You are alone, lucky. Look, you are no longer so alone, Japan, it helps you.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: trabuco on March 24, 2020, 14:34
This is not a regional crisis.

No fun.



Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: trabuco on March 24, 2020, 14:35
Trump is crazy, I'm pretty sure now.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Tenebroso on March 24, 2020, 14:57
I don't think so, he knows what he wants. He is surrounded by great expert manipulators of reality. Experts who hate their people to hide that their experts are the hairdresser and manicure. Fortunately, our children are far from that education of hatred of the invasion at the border, illegal immigrants are criminals, and the virus is not American, AIDS is gay and Covid is from outside.


Without the right to vacations, without the right to unemployment benefits, without the right to universal health, exclaimed for a halt to enrich pharmacists and insurers, macho, retrograde, gender violence, too religious,... in short, Fortunately, the FBI is taking the problem of hatred seriously and making its arrests.

Before, the USA had problems, now only one, the manipulation of society, the kidnapping of freedom around a freedom of expression for only a few, while society in general looks the other way, claiming that its gay friends are good The immigrants who know if they are good, the rest do not.
The Chinese people are distinguished by HONOR, USA for the hatred,  the bipartisan system, saving some and then others sharing power.
The paradox, the power is left without its sheep.


Is the POTU responsible for the virus? No, you are responsible for your country. To protect its inhabitants.
But it seems that the media of Trump and his empire in bots, trolls, and hate, as well as the army of foreign countries, are struggling to divert even this problem from people's brains, a virus and life, this is not important, the important thing is to show that Obama is African, that Bush was not the one who gave money rescuing the factories,... rewriting history.
They are able to argue from HATE rather than save themselves. Is incredible.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: mj007 on March 24, 2020, 18:15
Just what If....I know most of you hat Pres. Trump...But what if the Chinese created this virus in the lab to reduce their population of elders as the 70 year old plus people old do not produce for the Chinese government. They just use up sources/food. Something went wrong in the Chinese lab and they had a very bad accident and the virus was release/by accident.. Just what if...
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Tenebroso on March 24, 2020, 18:46
Do not worry about your parents, brothers, grandparents, uncles, friends, acquaintances, neighbors, creating hatred for the Chinese, that is what is important. You are no longer the strongest country, it is China again and you are in prehistory. I don't think China will help you.
Once you have a lot of hatred for the Chinese, what happens?


You will see all the very men in the USA, once again women survive more. In other words, the stronger sex is women. As for the feminists being terrorists, you must go to the police to denounce, meanwhile, the feminists if they are ending the American families, they are free, and the abusers are left alone. True.
What happens if it happens again, if a virus escapes???



That surely many Americans will not know him.
See what women from a WI town says today. To learn.


" ................

While individuals do what they can to meet their needs from home, they hope they can wait out the virus long enough. It will ultimately depend on how quickly authorities can expand supplies and support for health workers and researchers.

..... will be keeping tabs on the action from home and hoping for good news. 

“Just because we have health issues, we are not ‘throw-away people,’” ....... said. “I’m 59, and a mother, sister, wife and aunt. I don’t want to be a statistic — just one more number of people who died because of the inaction of this administration." ............






worry about life and do not look at the figures, they will soon give you the names and surnames of each family.



Do not ask yourself whether to exterminate the Chinese, ask why all those who without a family receive the hospital bill of hundreds of thousands of dollars and what a sadder, and vulnerable society you are, are going to commit suicide.


Not everyone in the USA has mental problems, some see the problem
These days your generation of Sanitaries is exposing itself to a viral load that will cause the best and most caring and brave to be cremated soon. A whole elite of well-trained people.

By the way, the virus drinks the lungs in hours, the relatives die alone, without being able to say goodbye, generally due to the body's own defenses that kill us because it does not know what is happening.


What do we do with the USA if it leaves all international treaties to save the planet?





Editado para llamarte GILIPOLLAS, IMBECIL


It seems that you are used to being afraid of grandmothers, it bothers you that a man tells you that women live, because I know the whole lot, gays, immigrants, blacks, Muslims, Jews, Europeans,... Chinese
You will see cheap beach illiterate, in Europe we do not cover the busts of the statues so as not to disturb the religions, *. Breasts are a beautiful thing. Fool.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: fritz on March 24, 2020, 19:17
It's very simple! Explained in less than 4 min.... we can't be healthy in a sick ecosystem! We fYcked up everything in this planet, it's our turn now
VIRUS LETTER (lettera dal virus) #ASCOLTA.


https://youtu.be/S6-An69TNMY
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Zero Talent on March 24, 2020, 20:03
Just what If....I know most of you hat Pres. Trump...But what if the Chinese created this virus in the lab to reduce their population of elders as the 70 year old plus people old do not produce for the Chinese government. They just use up sources/food. Something went wrong in the Chinese lab and they had a very bad accident and the virus was release/by accident.. Just what if...

A pile of horseshit.

This book explains with convincing arguments why viruses and pandemics (plague inclusive) have historically emerged from Eurasia and not from the Americas (nor Africa):

https://books.google.com/books/about/Guns_Germs_and_Steel.html?id=kLKTa_OeoNIC&printsec=frontcover&source=kp_read_button

What happened is Europeans decimating with their viruses (also helped by their acquired immunity) roughly 90% (tens of millions) of the native American population (and not only).
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Tenebroso on March 24, 2020, 20:37
Yes. The problem with this flu, not the flu, is that the history of pandemics in the USA indicates that they are going to be a meme compared to this one. Scientists warned. From Spain and Italy we won. You can stop it. Do something. You just have to read the media, to understand the real magnitude of the problem. You can't be thinking about going to the beach. The one in front should be respected, not participating in the spread of the virus. Until the vaccine arrives, one wave, two waves. Stay home.

Americans are in shape? Well, don't think about votes or elections. For that, you have to start the country, and for the moment, you have not closed it yet, I do not know what you are waiting for. How many dead is the number that the American people say, that's fine!!!!!
There are vaccines for the measles virus, and it still exists.
You will see, if the vaccine is obtained, vaccinating the planet is not easy.



Olympics in 21?
But you realize the magnitude of this problem. Because democracies seem to have a hard time staying home in isolation.
only 40% of the country is half closed.
Please put the TV cameras in the ICU units in NY. You will see how guest stays at home.


There are many good things about this, whoever survives. Governments will try to be prepared. this virus is very weak. Imagine a virus with a lethality of 11% and this level of asymptomatic contagion.
The last thing, the viral load is so brutal among many populations, that it seems to be, according to some studies, and the World Health Organization itself, that young people are not exempt from dying.


How happy we were a few days ago and we did not value it.


I hope to see my son physically the summer of the 21st. Hopefully sooner, but at the moment few airlines are flying.

At Easter, Trump wants families to get together, dammit, put a little order, please.


Well, this crisis has touched you with this administration, well. Please take material to the doctors, health personnel, cleaning personnel, firefighters, police, army. bring masks to grandparents' residences. Demand to do things since yesterday.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: LMS on March 25, 2020, 00:18
All politics and origin conspiracies aside, what the world (the entire world in unison) needs to do is slow this down enough that science and medical personnel have time to figure out what does and doesn't work and how to deal with it.  We need more protective supplies, respirators and health workers to deal with this pandemic.  We need time to find out if plasma antibodies or certain drugs can help heal those infected, & time to develop and test vaccines.  time to develop and make faster and affordable testing kits.  It's happened fast and most of the world didn't take it anywhere near seriously enough in the beginning, or we wouldn't be in the situation we are in now.  The question is will we as a species learn from this and prepare for future strains and outbreaks?  when the next new virus comes will we be more prepared, or will every $ be thrown into rebuilding the economy?

The other thing that bothers me is that a lot of people feel safe and invincible because they keep being told that we need to protect the aged and immune suppressed, but there are healthy young people dying as well and the symptoms seem to be very atypical with some. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Pauws99 on March 25, 2020, 01:33
Just what If....I know most of you hat Pres. Trump...But what if the Chinese created this virus in the lab to reduce their population of elders as the 70 year old plus people old do not produce for the Chinese government. They just use up sources/food. Something went wrong in the Chinese lab and they had a very bad accident and the virus was release/by accident.. Just what if...
What if the people who hate Trump are right and he is basing his decisions on  his world view of fake news and alternative facts? Come back in two weeks and tell us how its going.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: trabuco on March 25, 2020, 02:46
I don't hate Trump. It's not my f problem. If the USA becomes a danger for the whole world planes will not fly there. That speech (we hate americans in Europe) is stupid and outdated, we understand your right to vote a clown to rule your nation (It happens here too all the time), and we have right wind parties, far right parties and far left parties too. That's not the point.

But, young people is dying here too, doctors, police, nurses, etc.  In Europe we have universal healthcare systems and we are shitting in our pants. Are we stupid maybe? We are asking for help, from China (Italy), for the NATO (Spain), from our neighbour countries (France), from the EU, from big corporations...

I think that the POTUS does not have the right to kill the american people. That's all.



Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: trabuco on March 25, 2020, 03:00
SPAIN

2.937 deads
41.900 infected
more than 13% of all health personnel infected

Universal healthcare system, nobody without treatment and national lockdown.

Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: MicroVet on March 25, 2020, 03:40
Just what If....I know most of you hat Pres. Trump...But what if the Chinese created this virus in the lab to reduce their population of elders as the 70 year old plus people old do not produce for the Chinese government. They just use up sources/food. Something went wrong in the Chinese lab and they had a very bad accident and the virus was release/by accident.. Just what if...

If you go down that route I can make a much more convincing argument. What if the virus was spread by the Americans just like they have done several times?

For example, one in the 1920s when the US government offered blankets to north-western Native-Americans purposely infected with tuberculosis so they would all die, or at least weaken them so the americans could steal their lands?

Or the other time in the 1980s when they also tried to infect Cuba with hemorrhagic fever which killed hundreds of people among them over 100 children? In fact his wasn't the first attempt to do it as in the 1960/70s they've tried it too.

I'm sure many more examples exist.

And in the present situation the coronavirus was meant to create havoc in the Chinese and European economies since this is the declared plan from Trump. Even an idiot like him and his advisers must know that what made "Murica" "great" in the past were the profits from the two world wars. In fact it's one of the reasons why US sow so many wars. After the destruction the US companies gain a new market for rebuilding.

But since the virus is mutating more than expected, any treatment US may had to protect their citizens and profit on the death of innocent (the most profitable business of USA) the US lost control of it.

See, it's really easy to make up a much more convincing argument against USA.

Simply because if there's one country in the world that is known to have no morals and have in fact made use of weapons of mass destruction over and over is the US (atom bomb, bio-warfare, chemical warfare). In America precedents count a lot. Your legal system is based on them. So what does the precedents tell in this case?

Do I believe in any of I've written above? Not really. But if there were an evidence of foul play I would bet all my money on it. The track record of USA coupled with a lunatic president who even mimics Mussolini in the gestures, expressions and values leave little doubt.

Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on March 25, 2020, 05:29
Just what If....I know most of you hat Pres. Trump...But what if the Chinese created this virus in the lab to reduce their population of elders as the 70 year old plus people old do not produce for the Chinese government. They just use up sources/food. Something went wrong in the Chinese lab and they had a very bad accident and the virus was release/by accident.. Just what if...
Sorry but there's no mystery or conspiracy here. Scientists have been warning about this coming for years, in detail.
From 2013 and on:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24750897 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24750897)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-20392050 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-20392050)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-43155827 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-43155827)

But sadly we live in a reactive system (late stage capitalism) run by business people who don't want to speculatively spend money on things in advance. They are only interested in short term profit.

There's no market for warehouses stocking reserves of ventilators and masks or for "about $1.5bn to discover all the viruses in mammals. I think that would be a great investment because once you have done it, you can develop vaccines and get ready with test kits to find the first stage of emergence and stop it."
The mechanism is just not there in this system.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: georgep7 on March 25, 2020, 07:00
It is not applied capitalism or socialism failure, either utopic movements rise.

It is human greed and being out of focus to what is important, that explain everything.

A football player or a Kardashian post costs more
than a painting a book or a doctors payment.
Look up Microstock, Insta, Ylutube. Oversupply, right?

Who does agriculture? Social voluntary work? Look up elders?

Stupidity, low level social education, ego rise and fricking greed.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Uncle Pete on March 25, 2020, 10:40
The thread and subject has officially:

(https://thelukewarmersway.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/jump-the-shark.jpg)

Gone from discussing the actual issues and the world pandemic to hate messages, accusations, and wild conspiracy theories.

No more from me.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: MicroVet on March 25, 2020, 10:53
Well, here goes an important information about Coronavirus and a potential explanation on why people suffering from hypertension are being hit more seriously.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200323101354.htm (https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200323101354.htm)

It appears that some medications are making easier for the virus to attach to the lungs, result in infection and pneumonia. the drugs in question are ramipril (brand name: Altace), captopril (Capoten), enalapril (Vasotec), fosinopril (Monopril), lisinopril (Prinivil, Zestril) and quinapril (Accupril).

People taking these drugs must not stop taking them, but must be extra careful regarding coronavirus. At least until tests point that they don't have a relation with cooronavirus afterall.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: MysteryShot on March 25, 2020, 11:36
Follow the money...

Gilead Sciences, Inc REMDESIVIR

Donald Rumsfeld
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Tenebroso on March 25, 2020, 12:12
The thread and subject has officially:

(https://thelukewarmersway.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/jump-the-shark.jpg)

Gone from discussing the actual issues and the world pandemic to hate messages, accusations, and wild conspiracy theories.

No more from me.


-1





The first one who mentioned that it was a Chinese virus was you. So the subject of rats from Baltimore, LA very modern, Canada very modern, Europe of the extreme left everyone, long live the American flag and the barbecue, ....... and all the lies of the President are in the thread, until the topic is refocused.

As long as there is no talk of racism and hatred, the thread will be fine. As always this forum is characterized. When Minds .com or 8Chan's join, then we will get serious about fighting racism again.

I close my mouth, without rancor. But I don't promise to always be silent, as soon as I smell the extreme right racist touch, I'll be back.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: cascoly on March 26, 2020, 15:35
you can thank American #fakenews media for Trump's slow reaction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKq8UYYQTYA& (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKq8UYYQTYA&)

You can thank Donald Trump for Trump's slow reaction... he's the biggest source of fake news on the planet! Sorry, but if it's come out of his mouth, then it's more likely to be false than it is true.

When a Trump stopped flights from China, Biden made it clear that the move was racist and xenophobic. That’s all you need to know about how Biden would have addressed the crisis. Would we now 10x or 100x the number of deaths. A scary thought.

no way near as scary as having a bigoted, ignorant narcisist in 'charge'

if Biden were in charge we would still have a fully staffed NIH, CDC and FEMA, ready to handle a pandemic
 
if Biden were in charge he would not have disbanded the working group Obama specifically set up to handle pandemics

if Biden were in charge we would have re-acted to the Wuhan outbreak by increasing supplies and testing, just in case

if Biden were in charge he would not 'invoke' the Defense Production Act as window dressing, but would actually USE the Act to compel production of needed medical supplies

if Biden were in charge  he would not have spent months denying the pandemic existed, and THEN claim he was the first and only one to have predicted the pandemic

if Biden were in charge he would not have ignored the recommendations of a war-game-style simulation*** of a pandemic conducted in summer 2019

for extra credit - guess who did NONE of these things?

===============
*** "A simulation called “Crimson Contagion,” organized by a Trump-appointed assistant secretary at the Department of Health and Human Services from January to August in 2019, envisioned a respiratory virus beginning in China and infecting 110 million Americans, hospitalizing 7.7 million and killing 586,000. At least a dozen agencies, and another dozen states, were involved in the war-game-style exercise. A draft of the secret after-action report from October, first published Thursday by the New York Times, emphasized challenges related to coordination and highlighted friction between HHS and the Federal Emergency Management Agency." WA Post
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Tenebroso on March 26, 2020, 21:29
The NY Times asks for a plan, from the president who won the presidential election. I think the plan is to infect you en masse in synagogues, mosques, churches, soccer fields. For there to be elections in November, it may be the only solution. All USA infected at the same time. The heroes fallen in this war are buried by the fatherland.



The plan is on the table. My question is, those who have no respect for anything or anyone and listen to the flu and open that Fox channel on Easter will be convicted of crimes against the population if it is shown that out of interest, they are giving disinformation to the citizen, knowing that it is false, because the scientific community does not speak the same as these media stars suddenly delighted with the innovative ideas of politicians.


The team of scientists, non-hairdressers and those experts, scientists and doctors and of course the air, land and sea armies, and Trump, must give the state of national quarantine the news on Saturday afternoons.



In other words, Fox knows it is doing it wrong and the people are stupid? or Fox is a victim of ignorance. Or simply, we are exaggerating and a handful of cadavers will not stop the great USA. you are making history, the big one. Now the fault is with Europe too.


From Europe, we say Trump, open the country whenever you want, make the high wall on the planet, do what you want, it seems that the people support you. As The Atlantic says, it is the president who must direct this crisis of flu, twitter, tambourine, and rumors behind the curtains. I am still in love with the American people and lands, despite my ex-partner and some others.

One thing is difficulties, and another thing is this, this that you are living now, where the TV media is used to tell the governors to do something, and that the hospitals have all the means. What country. It is entertaining. Governors do not want politics, they want material.

Today, more than ever, you are already very late. Maybe exposing all of you at Easter is a good solution at this point. You are in shape, with hospitals for the wealthy and millionaires. I would put the whole country on the street in Easter. perhaps within the sadness, at least it is of the same blow for the whole country. one cries, and to dance slow music with the POTU.


Can you imagine a country in the world, where citizens do not believe in the news? Also, freedom of expression. How do I convince my ex-girlfriend that my ideas are based on real information, not on systematic manipulation of bots, trolls, hate, and infiltrated agents from various countries. My information is bad, I believe everything about the movies, and she tells me that if they do not win Trump, they will burn cities for a hidden camera video.


People believe it, that is the problem, which for many makes us laugh, it seems like a horoscope section, it stops being funny, because people think it is a true. And now, whoever stays at home ..... a coward. It is simply something incredible. The level of collective self-suggestion collective autosuggestion* in going to the divine god, compulsive liar, must be studied in the universities.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Tenebroso on March 26, 2020, 22:05
I forgot, it is spoken, in bankruptcy statistics in percentages, in relation to medical bills. Logically, an illness will put on the table the solidarity of everyone's health, as an important value of the nation, not the barbecue, the security of being sick and everyone having the right to be a society with the hope of life according to developed countries in 2020. The bill of Uncle Andres, the grandmother, the grandfather, ..... it seems that it is not a country for the poor, USA.


I almost prefer to die than pay those bills so that MULTINATIONALS can buy islands to pass the pandemics. What is the excuse, the abuse of some people? well the more expensive health care abuse on the planet is better. For what? What I don't understand is, how someone wants to jump the fence. The sensible thing is to jump the fence to the other side. at least you live more calmly, without those frights of every morning of decisions done with the conversation of the last expert hairdresser.



EDIT

It is completely false that he is blamed for everything in order to defeat him in the elections. This year there will be no elections. But it is the same, when the elections are held, the American people will not blame it for everything, only for what they consider to be mismanagement of one of the greatest tragedies of humanity. Of course, it seems that the people can decide and comment on their management, it would be interesting if they did something, if possible this year for their people. And if he does not know, what is normal, since it is sanitary, not political, that he asks for help.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Video-StockOrg on March 27, 2020, 02:52
you can thank American #fakenews media for Trump's slow reaction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKq8UYYQTYA& (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKq8UYYQTYA&)

You can thank Donald Trump for Trump's slow reaction... he's the biggest source of fake news on the planet! Sorry, but if it's come out of his mouth, then it's more likely to be false than it is true.


When a Trump stopped flights from China, Biden made it clear that the move was racist and xenophobic. That’s all you need to know about how Biden would have addressed the crisis. Would we now 10x or 100x the number of deaths. A scary thought.

no way near as scary as having a bigoted, ignorant narcisist in 'charge'

if Biden were in charge we would still have a fully staffed NIH, CDC and FEMA, ready to handle a pandemic
 
if Biden were in charge he would not have disbanded the working group Obama specifically set up to handle pandemics

if Biden were in charge we would have re-acted to the Wuhan outbreak by increasing supplies and testing, just in case

if Biden were in charge he would not 'invoke' the Defense Production Act as window dressing, but would actually USE the Act to compel production of needed medical supplies

if Biden were in charge  he would not have spent months denying the pandemic existed, and THEN claim he was the first and only one to have predicted the pandemic

if Biden were in charge he would not have ignored the recommendations of a war-game-style simulation*** of a pandemic conducted in summer 2019

for extra credit - guess who did NONE of these things?

===============
*** "A simulation called “Crimson Contagion,” organized by a Trump-appointed assistant secretary at the Department of Health and Human Services from January to August in 2019, envisioned a respiratory virus beginning in China and infecting 110 million Americans, hospitalizing 7.7 million and killing 586,000. At least a dozen agencies, and another dozen states, were involved in the war-game-style exercise. A draft of the secret after-action report from October, first published Thursday by the New York Times, emphasized challenges related to coordination and highlighted friction between HHS and the Federal Emergency Management Agency." WA Post

You mean that Biden, which disappeared when crap hit the fan? Like a p.u.s.s.y. ::) Even Sanders is still active.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: SpaceStockFootage on March 27, 2020, 03:23
Just like Trump disappeared during the 2009 swine flu outbreak?
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Video-StockOrg on March 27, 2020, 05:22
Just like Trump disappeared during the 2009 swine flu outbreak?

Did he run for President at that time?
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: SpaceStockFootage on March 27, 2020, 05:40
And what could he have done about the situation even if he was running, that's my point. I guess that's what you're getting at. Biden is essentially a glorified member of the public at the moment, whereas Bernie is a US Senator... of course he's going to be in the thick of things. Unless you think he's actually just disappeared, when he hasn't... he's done multiple interviews of late, and has a town hall with CNN tonight.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: ShadySue on March 27, 2020, 06:45
Meanwhile, Boris  has tested positive
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52060791 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52060791)
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: trabuco on March 27, 2020, 07:03
... in the real World.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Tenebroso on March 27, 2020, 12:09
I have definitely become. I am a right-wing radical.
My brain only accepts negative things from Hilary and Obama, even if they are a lie. My brain only sees Trump as the savior of the Constitution and the authentic hero that will keep us the first and second amendment tattooed on the brain. Long live USA.

 Good men and women, true Americans, we must punish all the governors who have not fought enough to eradicate the effects of this simple flu, aggravating the consequences for not acting according to the instructions of Trump, who is forced to open the country, despite the fact that some states have some victims due to the mismanagement of modern liberals or those related to the most radical communist left.

In conclusion, as important voices from the country say, there is still no strategic plan to tackle the serious problem of the crisis while continuing to entertain the population with hate propaganda to argue among themselves. the important thing is to silence the voice of the doctors of the hospitals, who ask for a day more help please.

Before, a few days ago I wished you luck, but I don't think you need it. You are saved by the divine hand of the groomed lord.



Actualizado, EDIT

Remember, true patriots, our barbecue on Saturdays is in danger. If POTU says to work, don't be cowards in your houses. The important thing is to maintain the status of the country's great fortunes and multinational health insurance. Let's save the millionaires as true patriots. If Trump says to the street, everyone to work to maintain the welfare of a few.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: cascoly on March 27, 2020, 13:21
......
Can you imagine a country in the world, where citizens do not believe in the news? Also, freedom of expression. How do I convince my ex-girlfriend that my ideas are based on real information, not on systematic manipulation of bots, trolls, hate, and infiltrated agents from various countries. My information is bad, I believe everything about the movies, and she tells me that if they do not win Trump, they will burn cities for a hidden camera video.


People believe it, that is the problem, which for many makes us laugh, it seems like a horoscope section, it stops being funny, because people think it is a true. And now, whoever stays at home ..... a coward. It is simply something incredible. The level of collective self-suggestion collective autosuggestion* in going to the divine god, compulsive liar, must be studied in the universities.

for many, it's not a matter of belief - they just don't care - as long a trump furthers their right wing goals, the lindsay grahams will continue to support him no matter how incompetent or obscene his policies (today saying NY doesnt really need the ventilators they ask for)
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Tenebroso on March 27, 2020, 15:21






for many, it's not a matter of belief - they just don't care - as long a trump furthers their right wing goals, the lindsay grahams will continue to support him no matter how incompetent or obscene his policies (today saying NY doesnt really need the ventilators they ask for)

Hug
Abrazo amigo, fuerza.


I withdraw from this war. How many good people without information, one of the fundamental rights of man. Good people intoxicated with lies for years. Normal, radicalized people who do not care about an education of minors where they see hate as normal.

A hug to all good Americans and residents.


Especially to Juan Andres, Technical Director of Moderna Therapeutics, and his experimental vaccine. To the virologist Adolfo Garcia Sastre of the Mount Sinai Hospital, and to so many others, and to each woman and man who will fight for this tragedy in the first row and for each one who isolates himself. Solidarity, I don't hate.

I have my own problems, not infect, take care of mine, and try to live without hate, that's why I focus on my territory of peace.


We read each other in the future, in this or in other lives, bye. Hug, just people. Bye.



Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Shelma1 on March 27, 2020, 15:58
Meanwhile, Boris  has tested positive
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52060791 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52060791)

What....no herd immunity?
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: ShadySue on March 27, 2020, 18:19
Meanwhile, Boris  has tested positive
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52060791 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52060791)

What....no herd immunity?
He must have been trying to emulate the People's Princess, but at least Diana was making an informed point in showing that AIDS isn't passed on byholding hands. Not sure what his excuse was.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2020/mar/27/i-shook-hands-with-everybody-says-boris-johnson-weeks-before-coronavirus-diagnosis-video (https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2020/mar/27/i-shook-hands-with-everybody-says-boris-johnson-weeks-before-coronavirus-diagnosis-video)
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Visualab on March 27, 2020, 19:08
It's funny how people from all over the world criticize their political leaders...if they were right all politicals are morons...the real truth is that the whole world system was unprepared...and i call it capitalism....capitalism system doesn't store resources but eat them all...that's why every states in the world is facing the same problem...lack of resources...medical in this case..
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Zero Talent on March 27, 2020, 21:08
It's funny how people from all over the world criticize their political leaders...if they were right all politicals are morons...the real truth is that the whole world system was unprepared...and i call it capitalism....capitalism system doesn't store resources but eat them all...that's why every states in the world is facing the same problem...lack of resources...medical in this case..

And what is your alternative? Communism? Communism where all resources are wasted, generating all sorts of shortages, even during regular times?

Morons in power is our problem. Populist morons in power.

Populist morons like dear Boris, who was shaking hands with infected people to prove how stupid he is.
Or populist morons like dear Donald, who said, for a long time, that everything is a hoax, (instead of getting ready), to prove how stupid he is.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: trabuco on March 28, 2020, 02:22
At home for a lot of days now. I had a flu before the apocalypse and confined myself for 14 days before the lockdown (with fear of the covid, it was starting to spread all around the country). I miss the outdoor or outdoors? Then my country closed.

Take care of yourselves and forget about capitalism or communism, Trump or Biden, Boris or Merkel. No politician is going to save you wherever you are. Most of them are bstards.

A good thing: We are going to see who are our friends. The EU is close to collapse for the greed and lack of solidarity of some countries (Germany, Netherlands, Finland, Austria...). Italy, Spain and France are alone in this war. I hope China will help us.

So... we are not safe and you are not sate and nobody is safe.


Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Pauws99 on March 28, 2020, 02:41
It's funny how people from all over the world criticize their political leaders...if they were right all politicals are morons...the real truth is that the whole world system was unprepared...and i call it capitalism....capitalism system doesn't store resources but eat them all...that's why every states in the world is facing the same problem...lack of resources...medical in this case..

And what is your alternative? Communism? Communism where all resources are wasted, generating all sorts of shortages, even during regular times?

Morons in power is our problem. Populist morons in power.

Populist morons like dear Boris, who was shaking hands with infected people to prove how stupid he is.
Or populist morons like dear Donald, who said, for a long time, that everything is a hoax, (instead of getting ready), to prove how stupid he is.
Neither Capitalism nor Communism but a proper role for the state and world organisations to protect us from a virus in the future. Recognition that this needs to be paid for and that some "waste" is an insurance policy. We are all connected by the virus whatever our ideology.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: trabuco on March 28, 2020, 02:48
https://www.elespanol.com/mundo/europa/20200327/paises-bajos-espana-italia-admiten-covid-19-ucis/477952614_0.html (https://www.elespanol.com/mundo/europa/20200327/paises-bajos-espana-italia-admiten-covid-19-ucis/477952614_0.html)

Quote
EUROPE CORONAVIRUSES
The Netherlands accuses Spain and Italy: "They admit too old people with Covid-19 in the ICUs"
The chief of clinical epidemiology at the Leiden University Medical Center pointed out the "cultural position" that the elderly have in these countries.

Quote

Very different cultures. In this way Frits Rosendaal, head of clinical epidemiology at the Medical Center of the University of Leiden (Netherlands) explains the different states of saturation of hospitals due to the coronavirus that are appreciated when comparing his country with others such as Spain and Italy. And, specifically, it indicates the "cultural position" that the elderly have in these countries.

Rosendaal believes that they should not be taken to hospitals: "In Italy, the capacity of ICUs is managed very differently. They admit people that we would not include because they are too old. The elderly have a very different position in the culture Italian ".






edit
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on March 28, 2020, 04:58
It's funny how people from all over the world criticize their political leaders...if they were right all politicals are morons...the real truth is that the whole world system was unprepared...and i call it capitalism....capitalism system doesn't store resources but eat them all...that's why every states in the world is facing the same problem...lack of resources...medical in this case..

And what is your alternative? Communism? Communism where all resources are wasted, generating all sorts of shortages, even during regular times?

Morons in power is our problem. Populist morons in power.

Populist morons like dear Boris, who was shaking hands with infected people to prove how stupid he is.
Or populist morons like dear Donald, who said, for a long time, that everything is a hoax, (instead of getting ready), to prove how stupid he is.

We need to stop thinking about systems as all or nothing.

A lot of these terms have lost all meaning anyway. Communism is being used to mean anything from state capitalism (where the state employees everyone and owns everything) to a system with mostly free markets with worker owned companies competing  plus nationalised industries where it makes sense (power, rail, healthcare etc.).

Capitalism on the other hand is often used to mean the market (I think not be accident, people have been purposely conflating the two to make it seem like there can't be markets without capitalists fencing off the commons and rent seeking). This makes it hard to to discuss any other system with some free market elements.

Equally left and right have virtually lost all meaning, with right wing populists offering up traditional left wing solutions, just with a sprinkling of xenophobia. Left and right are hundreds of years old labels from France that really don't have a lot of meaning in today's world as far as policy goes. They are often just team names. Look at the way the right wing is obsessed with deficits when Democrats are in but instantly turn on a dime when they get and and blow up the budget.

Apart from extremists no one thinks the government has no role to play and no one thinks the government should control every aspect of peoples lives. Shame people in general want simple solutions when reality is complicated and messy.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Visualab on March 28, 2020, 08:10
It's funny how people from all over the world criticize their political leaders...if they were right all politicals are morons...the real truth is that the whole world system was unprepared...and i call it capitalism....capitalism system doesn't store resources but eat them all...that's why every states in the world is facing the same problem...lack of resources...medical in this case..

And what is your alternative? Communism? Communism where all resources are wasted, generating all sorts of shortages, even during regular times?

Morons in power is our problem. Populist morons in power.

Populist morons like dear Boris, who was shaking hands with infected people to prove how stupid he is.
Or populist morons like dear Donald, who said, for a long time, that everything is a hoax, (instead of getting ready), to prove how stupid he is.
I don't have any alternative,and i don't pretend to be the one who has the solution,i only stated how capitalism works..and i didn't say it's worst than comunism..btw we leave in this system and politics can act only inside this system and stocking resources
for future crisis pandemics or whatever you want it's not allowed by the capitalism nature itself...you can blame all politics are morons but the reality is that if you replace them things won't change because of the system rules...
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Zero Talent on March 28, 2020, 10:40
It's funny how people from all over the world criticize their political leaders...if they were right all politicals are morons...the real truth is that the whole world system was unprepared...and i call it capitalism....capitalism system doesn't store resources but eat them all...that's why every states in the world is facing the same problem...lack of resources...medical in this case..

And what is your alternative? Communism? Communism where all resources are wasted, generating all sorts of shortages, even during regular times?

Morons in power is our problem. Populist morons in power.

Populist morons like dear Boris, who was shaking hands with infected people to prove how stupid he is.
Or populist morons like dear Donald, who said, for a long time, that everything is a hoax, (instead of getting ready), to prove how stupid he is.
I don't have any alternative,and i don't pretend to be the one who has the solution,i only stated how capitalism works..and i didn't say it's worst than comunism..btw we leave in this system and politics can act only inside this system and stocking resources
for future crisis pandemics or whatever you want it's not allowed by the capitalism nature itself...you can blame all politics are morons but the reality is that if you replace them things won't change because of the system rules...

Ok then, it sounded like you blamed capitalism for the crisis.
I only want to add that one of the feature of capitalism is a constant adaptation to public demand, through a constant feedback loop. If people will learn something from this crisis, moving forward, we should first elect less morons in power. Secondly, many companies learned the hard way, what it means to play the game on the edge. Companies without reserves will disappear. The rest will learn to get better prepared for such events.

And yes @justanotherphotographer, we are not talking about pure capitalism nor pure communism. Left and right are deprecated classifications. In the real world, there is a whole spectrum of nuances, first on the horizontal axis, ranging from a fully state controlled economy, to a pure free market, but also a full range of options on the vertical axis, ranging from the total absence of government (anarchy), to a single person absolute dictatorship.

My point is addessing both axis: stay on the right side of the economical axis (not far right, mind you), and in the middle of the vertical axis.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on March 28, 2020, 11:00

And yes @justanotherphotographer, we are not talking about pure capitalism nor pure communism. Left and right are deprecated classifications. In the real world, there is a whole spectrum of nuances, first on the horizontal axis, ranging for a full state controlled economy, to a pure free market, but also a full range of options on the vertical axis, ranging for the total absence of government (anarchy), to a single person dictatorship.

My point is addessing both axis: stay on the right side of the economical axis (not far right, mind you), and in the middle of the vertical axis.

This is what I mean though, trying to place policy on a political axis with the labels of right and left is falling into the same trap. What does that prescribe in policy terms? Do the policies make sense individually based on real world evidence.

So for example if you are thinking about whether there should be universal healthcare you shouldn't be wondering if it is in line with a "right economical axis", but what works best for constituents based on evidence from around the world.


Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Zero Talent on March 28, 2020, 11:12

And yes @justanotherphotographer, we are not talking about pure capitalism nor pure communism. Left and right are deprecated classifications. In the real world, there is a whole spectrum of nuances, first on the horizontal axis, ranging for a full state controlled economy, to a pure free market, but also a full range of options on the vertical axis, ranging for the total absence of government (anarchy), to a single person dictatorship.

My point is addessing both axis: stay on the right side of the economical axis (not far right, mind you), and in the middle of the vertical axis.

This is what I mean though, trying to place policy on a political axis with the labels of right and left is falling into the same trap. What does that prescribe in policy terms? Do the policies make sense individually based on real world evidence.

So for example if you are thinking about whether there should be universal healthcare you shouldn't be wondering if it is in line with a "right economical axis", but what works best for constituents based on evidence from around the world.

Exactly. The real-world evidence shows that authoritarianism and its worst-case scenario, dictatorship, systematically ended up bad for constituents. That's the point I'm making when it comes to the vertical axis.

When it comes to universal health care in particular (and the economical axis in general), I'm with you, even if it is not aligned with the pure free-market concept. In a civilized society, Life and Death should NOT become a market-driven trade-off. But even here, we have many nuances, when it comes to the best way to evolve towards that ideal.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: cascoly on March 28, 2020, 11:51
It's funny how people from all over the world criticize their political leaders...if they were right all politicals are morons...the real truth is that the whole world system was unprepared...and i call it capitalism....capitalism system doesn't store resources but eat them all...that's why every states in the world is facing the same problem...lack of resources...medical in this case..

And what is your alternative? Communism? Communism where all resources are wasted, generating all sorts of shortages, even during regular times?
...

it's not either/or -- we need a more controlled capitalism - we have govt regs for clean air, clean water, etc, otherwise industry wouldn't take those steps (and it would be counter their interests to do so when their competitors do not)

this is the role of govt in a capitalist society - not to own industry but to see that industry pays the full costs of their environmental actions, to prevent price gouging, ensure labor rights, provide health benefits, minimum wage, etc (in US price of masks has more than quadrupled as trump continues to tell states to get them on the open market rather than have the feds buy & distribute
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: cascoly on March 28, 2020, 11:58
 
We need to stop thinking about systems as all or nothing.

A lot of these terms have lost all meaning anyway. ...
Equally left and right have virtually lost all meaning, with right wing populists offering up traditional left wing solutions, just with a sprinkling of xenophobia. Left and right are hundreds of years old labels from France that really don't have a lot of meaning in today's world as far as policy goes. They are often just team names. Look at the way the right wing is obsessed with deficits when Democrats are in but instantly turn on a dime when they get and and blow up the budget.

....

that example just shows their hypocrisy, not a failure of terms - left & right still have meaning -- it's essentially the tension between equality & liberty. in the US we used to be able to debate these ideals and form compromises
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Zero Talent on March 28, 2020, 13:19
It's funny how people from all over the world criticize their political leaders...if they were right all politicals are morons...the real truth is that the whole world system was unprepared...and i call it capitalism....capitalism system doesn't store resources but eat them all...that's why every states in the world is facing the same problem...lack of resources...medical in this case..

And what is your alternative? Communism? Communism where all resources are wasted, generating all sorts of shortages, even during regular times?
...

it's not either/or -- we need a more controlled capitalism - we have govt regs for clean air, clean water, etc, otherwise industry wouldn't take those steps (and it would be counter their interests to do so when their competitors do not)

That's old thinking.
In this time and age, in the social media age, when all brands are so very much concerned with their image, more than ever, no company can afford to go against what consumers want. Companies are very often ahead of regulations because they understood exactly those concerns coming from consumers.
Moreover, even when bad things happen, regulators are very often oblivious to that. Independent consumer associations, the free press, etc., are most of the time ahead of those bloated bureaucratic governmental bodies. See the VW emission case.
Even more, those regulators are often in bed with the industry, playing favorites with those who pay their bills and bankroll their elections. See the recent Boeing case.

Back on topic, during the early stages of the Covid-19 crisis, too much governmental control prevented the Covid tests manufactured abroad to be imported in the US, because those tests, despite being proven superior, were not FDA approved. So... too much regulation might have led to deaths when preventable cases went untested and unnoticed (see attached).
And the shortage of tests in the US continues even today, despite the daily lies from our Dear Leader and God-Sent Savior.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on March 28, 2020, 13:39
That's old thinking.
In this time and age, in the social media age, when all brands are so very much concerned with their image, more than ever, no company can afford to go against what consumers want. Companies are very often ahead of regulations because they understood exactly those concerns coming from consumers.
Moreover, even when bad things happen, regulators are very often oblivious to that. Independent consumer associations, the free press, etc., are most of the time ahead of those bloated bureaucratic governmental bodies. See the VW emission case.
Even more, those regulators are often in bed with the industry, playing favorites with those who pay their bills and bankroll their elections. See the recent Boeing case.

During the early stages of the Covid-19 crisis, too much governmental control has prevented the Covid tests manufactured abroad to be imported in the US, because those tests, despite being proven superior, were not FDA approved. So... too much regulation might have led to deaths when preventable cases went untested and unnoticed. And the shortage of tests in the US continues even today, despite the daily lies from our dear leader and God sent savior.

Sorry but this just isn't true. Look at climate change. Oil companies have been spending hundreds of millions of dollars for decades to obscure facts and muddy the waters so just enough consumers are just confused enough to think there is still controversy over the science. This is while the companies  own scientists have been at the forefront of researching the truth behind closed doors and burying it. It's much cheaper to spend a few million hoodwinking a chunk of the public than to lose the billions that would come if there was consensus.

Consumers often either don't have a choice or the time to research these things, and journalists have never been squeezed more than today. Only governments have the power to reign in massive corporations.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Zero Talent on March 28, 2020, 13:55
Only governments have the power to reign in massive corporations.

Sorry, but that's one of the biggest fallacies of modern politics.

No bureaucracy will put your interest ahead of its personal survival. Most bureaucrats will do whatever it takes to prove that they are indispensable and save their jobs. But that's normal, we can't blame them for being human.

When things fail, they will never say that it's because of their incompetence or because their survival instinct trumped everything else. They will blame it on the lack of resources, they will ask for more taxes to finance more people in a new agency created to oversee that problem.

The fact is that consumers are the most powerful force able to really keep the companies in check, when proper competition is permitted.

The companies that can afford to disregard the power of the masses are those in a monopolistic situation. And history thought us that long term monopolies never flourished, except when backed by governments, usually through enhanced regulations designed to kill any potential competition coming from minor players.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: trabuco on March 28, 2020, 14:56
Total lockdown in Spain.

https://www.elmundo.es/espana/2020/03/28/5e7f866ffc6c8365018b456e.html (https://www.elmundo.es/espana/2020/03/28/5e7f866ffc6c8365018b456e.html)

Quote
Pedro Sánchez announces the paralysis of all "non-essential" activities for 11 days due to the coronavirus

Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: cascoly on March 28, 2020, 18:07
That's old thinking.
In this time and age, in the social media age, when all brands are so very much concerned with their image, more than ever, no company can afford to go against what consumers want. Companies are very often ahead of regulations because they understood exactly those concerns coming from consumers.
Moreover, even when bad things happen, regulators are very often oblivious to that. Independent consumer associations, the free press, etc., are most of the time ahead of those bloated bureaucratic governmental bodies. See the VW emission case.
Even more, those regulators are often in bed with the industry, playing favorites with those who pay their bills and bankroll their elections. See the recent Boeing case.

During the early stages of the Covid-19 crisis, too much governmental control has prevented the Covid tests manufactured abroad to be imported in the US, because those tests, despite being proven superior, were not FDA approved. So... too much regulation might have led to deaths when preventable cases went untested and unnoticed. And the shortage of tests in the US continues even today, despite the daily lies from our dear leader and God sent savior.

Sorry but this just isn't true. Look at climate change. Oil companies have been spending hundreds of millions of dollars for decades to obscure facts and muddy the waters so just enough consumers are just confused enough to think there is still controversy over the science. This is while the companies  own scientists have been at the forefront of researching the truth behind closed doors and burying it. It's much cheaper to spend a few million hoodwinking a chunk of the public than to lose the billions that would come if there was consensus.

Consumers often either don't have a choice or the time to research these things, and journalists have never been squeezed more than today. Only governments have the power to reign in massive corporations.

yes - you beat me to it!  just look at the damage trump has done by rolling back or eliminating regulations; or by the failure to regulate big pharma (we pay many times the $ other countries for the same drug because our govt is PROHIBITED from neghotiating)
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Zero Talent on March 28, 2020, 18:54
That's old thinking.
In this time and age, in the social media age, when all brands are so very much concerned with their image, more than ever, no company can afford to go against what consumers want. Companies are very often ahead of regulations because they understood exactly those concerns coming from consumers.
Moreover, even when bad things happen, regulators are very often oblivious to that. Independent consumer associations, the free press, etc., are most of the time ahead of those bloated bureaucratic governmental bodies. See the VW emission case.
Even more, those regulators are often in bed with the industry, playing favorites with those who pay their bills and bankroll their elections. See the recent Boeing case.

During the early stages of the Covid-19 crisis, too much governmental control has prevented the Covid tests manufactured abroad to be imported in the US, because those tests, despite being proven superior, were not FDA approved. So... too much regulation might have led to deaths when preventable cases went untested and unnoticed. And the shortage of tests in the US continues even today, despite the daily lies from our dear leader and God sent savior.

Sorry but this just isn't true. Look at climate change. Oil companies have been spending hundreds of millions of dollars for decades to obscure facts and muddy the waters so just enough consumers are just confused enough to think there is still controversy over the science. This is while the companies  own scientists have been at the forefront of researching the truth behind closed doors and burying it. It's much cheaper to spend a few million hoodwinking a chunk of the public than to lose the billions that would come if there was consensus.

Consumers often either don't have a choice or the time to research these things, and journalists have never been squeezed more than today. Only governments have the power to reign in massive corporations.

yes - you beat me to it!  just look at the damage trump has done by rolling back or eliminating regulations; or by the failure to regulate big pharma (we pay many times the $ other countries for the same drug because our govt is PROHIBITED from neghotiating)

Except that, as shown above, the opposite is true. ;)

Effective Covid-19 tests from Europe couldn't be imported in the US, exactly because of our very strict FDA regulations.
The absence of testing in the US is certainly the reason for the extensive spread of the virus.
Many deaths could have been avoided by early testing. Check that screenshot from NY Times, I posted above.

Besides, our very strict FDA regulations are preventing drug imports, thus reducing the competition on the US market.
This is also why, many drug companies currently enjoy a virtually monopolistic situation, being protected against foreign competition and smaller domestic competitors by our strict FDA regulations.

Lower prices are not achieved through a government fiat, but through competition.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: fritz on March 28, 2020, 18:56
Until rich understand they can't eat money, it will never stop! It's time to change the game. No more game, that's all.

https://youtu.be/S6-An69TNMY
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: cascoly on March 28, 2020, 22:54


Effective Covid-19 tests from Europe couldn't be imported in the US, exactly because of our very strict FDA regulations.
The absence of testing in the US is certainly the reason for the extensive spread of the virus.
Many deaths could have been avoided by early testing. Check that screenshot from NY Times, I posted above.

Besides, our very strict FDA regulations are preventing drug imports, thus reducing the competition on the US market.
This is also why, many drug companies currently enjoy a virtually monopolistic situation, being protected against foreign competition and smaller domestic competitors by our strict FDA regulations.

Lower prices are not achieved through a government fiat, but through competition.

nonsense -- competition rarely lowers prices -- yes, FDA rules handicapped us, but overall big pharma makes the rules - even  here it lets them keep out competitors.

re other drugs, those drugs are made HERE and sold abroad cheaply due to govt negotiation, while here they can price gouge since no one can demand lower prices. somuch for competition

large corporations are not going to lower prices on their own -- and in many areas patents & trade secrets eliminate any competition. then there are areas like airlines & oil industry where virtual cartels keep prices high without any overt price fixing.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Zero Talent on March 29, 2020, 01:06
competition rarely lowers prices -- yes, FDA rules handicapped us,

Lol at your first statement (which is so easily dismissable, it's not even worth arguing about) -- and yes, I'm glad that you agree with me on the second one. We have here a very clear example of how regulations not just handicapped us, but led to preventable deaths.

We are making progress!  ;D

The next step is to understand how monopolies and the associated price gauging practices are flourishing under the protection of tough regulations (i.e. cronyism).
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: MicroVet on March 29, 2020, 01:33
competition rarely lowers prices -- yes, FDA rules handicapped us,

Lol at your first statement (which is so easily dismissable, it's not even worth arguing about) -- and yes, I'm glad that you agree with me on the second one. We have here a very clear example of how the regulations (like the ones your asking for) not just handicapped us, but led to preventable deaths.

We are making progress!  ;D

The next step is to understand how monopolies and the associated price gauging practices are flourishing under the protection of tough regulations (cronyism)


In my country we were sold the same BS about competition lowering prices.  With that BS, the EU forced our government to privatize strategic sectors of the economy (fuel, energy, transportation, etc.). Sectors that in most part already had private companies operating and competing with the state company.

When the state sold all those companies and all became private, what happened was that cartels were immediately formed to combine prices. Forget about competition driving prices down. Now you pay what the cartels want you to pay.

With the privatizing of those profitable businesses, the profits instead of coming directly to the State and used in the betterment of the country, now go to the pocket of Capitalists.

You may argue that the state still get revenue from taxes, but that's also not true. Those capitalists moved the fiscal headquarters of the companies to countries like Netherlands where they pay less taxes. Netherlands and other countries like it, in turn benefit from wealth sucked from my country without spending a dime on it. Much like parasites. In other cases, Capitalists hide the money on off-shores not paying taxes.

You may also argue that it's the state and government job to investigate those illegalities. With so much power in the hands of capitalists, not only they buy the politicians in power, the State loss of revenue due to the mentioned above now has no means or funding to act.

Plus, in my country capitalism and the competition/prices babble was used to crush the producers cutting the price paid to them (look at what also happened to us  photographers). In the end, consumers are not paying less and workers are earning much less, but capitalists are richer than ever.

Since the privatizing of all those companies our level of living regressed to the same we had in the 70's. And man, were we poor back then!
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: MicroVet on March 29, 2020, 01:43
***
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Pauws99 on March 29, 2020, 02:31
"No bureaucracy will put your interest ahead of its personal survival."  Nor any business which is why tobacco was pushed for years after corporations knew and suppressed evidence of its dangers and on-line gambling companies offer their biggest clients huge incentives to keep gambling.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3490543/ (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3490543/)
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Visualab on March 29, 2020, 04:28
competition rarely lowers prices -- yes, FDA rules handicapped us,

Lol at your first statement (which is so easily dismissable, it's not even worth arguing about) -- and yes, I'm glad that you agree with me on the second one. We have here a very clear example of how the regulations (like the ones your asking for) not just handicapped us, but led to preventable deaths.

We are making progress!  ;D

The next step is to understand how monopolies and the associated price gauging practices are flourishing under the protection of tough regulations (cronyism)


In my country we were sold the same BS about competition lowering prices.  With that BS, the EU forced our government to privatize strategic sectors of the economy (fuel, energy, transportation, etc.). Sectors that in most part already had private companies operating and competing with the state company.

When the state sold all those companies and all became private, what happened was that cartels were immediately formed to combine prices. Forget about competition driving prices down. Now you pay what the cartels want you to pay.

With the privatizing of those profitable businesses, the profits instead of coming directly to the State and used in the betterment of the country, now go to the pocket of Capitalists.

You may argue that the state still get revenue from taxes, but that's also not true. Those capitalists moved the fiscal headquarters of the companies to countries like Netherlands where they pay less taxes. Netherlands and other countries like it, in turn benefit from wealth sucked from my country without spending a dime on it. Much like parasites. In other cases, Capitalists hide the money on off-shores not paying taxes.

You may also argue that it's the state and government job to investigate those illegalities. With so much power in the hands of capitalists, not only they buy the politicians in power, the State loss of revenue due to the mentioned above now has no means or funding to act.

Plus, in my country capitalism and the competition/prices babble was used to crush the producers cutting the price paid to them (look at what also happened to us  photographers). In the end, consumers are not paying less and workers are earning much less, but capitalists are richer than ever.

Since the privatizing of all those companies our level of living regressed to the same we had in the 70's. And man, were we poor back then!
Totally agree...
Btw if it's true that capitalists are taking most of the pie,it's even true that our lifestyle has improved much...
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: MicroVet on March 29, 2020, 05:18
Btw if it's true that capitalists are taking most of the pie,it's even true that our lifestyle has improved much...

Capitalists always took most of the pie. That is not the question. The question is that nowadays, with a more and more unregulated capitalism they are taking almost all of the pie. The gap between rich and poor was never this big.

Plus, if you look at history there almost always have been progress and betterment of the conditions of life. That has nothing to do with capitalism but with human nature. We didn't evolve from the Paleolithic to Mesolithic then Neolithic because of Capitalism. We did it because has humans we always try to improve our quality of life. And that has been an ongoing march. Sometimes faster, other times less so.

We can even argue that Russians and Chinese lived better in the 1960/70s than in 1910 despite the repression and oppression of those regimes that had nothing to do with capitalism. In a world without capitalism, no matter what would replace it, there would still be development and betterment of life.

Plus, I would like to add a comment on the earlier idea that the consumers drive the capitalist companies to do better, compared to regulation. I do not agree with that at all.

If we were to remove all regulations, lets say regarding environment protection, an immediate catastrophe would fall on the planet. Sure, some consumers would still make a market for Eco-friendly companies, but the vast majority of the consumers are ignorant and know nothing about ecology except a few buzzwords about it. In the end they would just buy the cheaper product and did not care if it was produced by destroying ecosystems. That would drag all the Eco-friendly companies down in a heartbeat except high-end products for a minority. We've seen it happen in Microstock with the price and content wars!

If we consider that most of the Media is property of large economic groups, people would not even know how those products were being made because of controlled information. Couple that with marketing, and fake news discrediting the people speaking about the problem and nothing would stop Unregulated Capitalism. Look at what happened to oil companies and fuel with lead or tobacco companies.

Are the State regulations and authorities slow to evolve? Yes, but even with all their problems they are what still protect the people. And do not forget that we can even argue that States and authorities are slower to act exactly because the power of Capitalists, who interfere heavily and create a lot of obstacles and sow corruption for their own gain. I see that daily and blatantly in my country daily!

Connecting all this with the coronavirus crisis, and to prove my previous paragraph, I can say that once the quarantine scenario was put on the table, the capitalists of my country immediately started to say that they would bankrupt their companies and that they needed subsidies because they could not resist economically stop for 15 days! That immediately delayed the issue of the quarantine, and will kill countless people, just because they lie about the survival of their companies and found a way to suck money from the State they hate so much.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: 50% on March 29, 2020, 06:39
lack of solidarity of some countries (Germany, Netherlands, Finland, Austria...). Italy, Spain and France are alone in this war. I hope China will help us.

Germany took a lot of patients from Italy and France just an example and you call it lack of solidarity?
China or better their government is responsible for this bug and all the misery it came with it, they should closed the wet markets long ago not just because Sars version 1 in 2002/2003 developed from the wet markets the same way as now Sars version 2 but also because these wet markets are exceptional cruel to animals and they even sell endangered species for eating purposes.
But hey good luck with your new friends from China and don't forget the Tiananmen Square massacre!
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: trabuco on March 29, 2020, 07:23

don't forget the Tiananmen Square massacre!


 :o

And don't forget the WWII.

Your move.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: trabuco on March 29, 2020, 07:25
Maybe the XVI  religion wars?

Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: trabuco on March 29, 2020, 07:26
Ok.

It's time to re-think the EU, that's pretty clear.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: georgep7 on March 29, 2020, 07:39
Truth is that following politics forums, noone speak politics now.

What perhaps we fail to wonder is if next month we will have e.g. fresh onions.

Meaning that with this lockdown no basic needs production is 100% served.

Everything else can be discussed and solved over a food full table
within two months period (hopefully after corona is over) from now!
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Uncle Pete on March 29, 2020, 07:59

don't forget the Tiananmen Square massacre!


 :o

And don't forget the WWII.

Your move.

Remember the Maine!


We went shopping yesterday, I wondered why eggs are three times the normal prices. I asked the checker and she said "there's a shortage" to which asked, "What did the chickens stop laying eggs because of the virus?"  ;D
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: trabuco on March 29, 2020, 08:14

don't forget the Tiananmen Square massacre!


 :o

And don't forget the WWII.

Your move.

Remember the Maine!



We do, dam n yankees.

Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: trabuco on March 29, 2020, 08:14
I wonder how long this extreme measures can be maintained. Some problems in southern Italy now.

Here we are still at fun but...
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Zero Talent on March 29, 2020, 10:47
Btw if it's true that capitalists are taking most of the pie,it's even true that our lifestyle has improved much...

Capitalists always took most of the pie. That is not the question. The question is that nowadays, with a more and more unregulated capitalism they are taking almost all of the pie. The gap between rich and poor was never this big.

In competitive capitalism, every transaction is a win-win. When you have choices, when the competition is allowed to flourish, you pay only as much as you think that product is worth. You decide how much of their pie to take and how much of your pie to give away in exchange.

The problem you are describing is not deregulated capitalism, but the exact opposite: it is over-regulated capitalism. It is crony-capitalism. Capitalism where the consumer doesn't have choices. Capitalism where corporations are in cahoots with regulators.

Consumers' choices are the healthy feedback loop in a healthy economy. The consumer sends back their message to companies, through their choices. Companies must adapt to consumers' will and choices or perish.

We vote for politicians every 4 years or so. In 4 years, many things can go south with no way to change course.

In healthy capitalism, we vote every day, we vote with every single purchase we make.

Remember that in general, nobody is defending your own interest better than yourself; not the corporations and not the government. Both entities, the same as you, will defend their interest first and foremost. And there is nothing wrong with that. That's how the world works.

Didn't you notice that politicians very seldom talk about consumers? They either want to protect a select group of workers or a select group of companies. They forget that consumers are a natural regulator and the oil that's harmoniously linking those two entities.

I agree that the situation you are describing is bad. But you are choosing the wrong direction to address that problem. The direction should be towards less regulation and more competition, not the other way around (as most politicians want you to believe, when they ask for your vote, in an attempt to position themselves as your saviour).
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: cascoly on March 29, 2020, 11:04


In competitive capitalism, every transaction is a win-win. When you have choices, when the competition is allowed to flourish, you pay only as much as you think that product is worth. You decide how much of their pie to take and how much of your pie to give away in exchange.

The problem you are describing is not deregulated capitalism, but the exact opposite: it is over-regulated capitalism. It is crony-capitalism. Capitalism where the consumer doesn't have choices. Capitalism where corporations are in cahoots with regulators.

Consumers' choices are the healthy feedback loop in a healthy economy. The consumer sends back their message to companies, through their choices. Companies must adapt to consumers' will and choices or perish.

....

how is it win-win for oil companies to make obscene profits while they pollute the earth?  just what 'choice' does the consumer have when faced with a cartel; same for drugs, medical care (in the US), airline prices (even w 'competition' from a few carriers), ....

regulation is the reason for crony capitalism, rather capitalism continues DESPITE our regulations (often too weak to effect any change).  both parties in the US are complicit - the republicans more so, but the dems for the most part are not progressive. so the idea we can make necessary changes every 4 years is a fairy tale
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Zero Talent on March 29, 2020, 11:53


In competitive capitalism, every transaction is a win-win. When you have choices, when the competition is allowed to flourish, you pay only as much as you think that product is worth. You decide how much of their pie to take and how much of your pie to give away in exchange.

The problem you are describing is not deregulated capitalism, but the exact opposite: it is over-regulated capitalism. It is crony-capitalism. Capitalism where the consumer doesn't have choices. Capitalism where corporations are in cahoots with regulators.

Consumers' choices are the healthy feedback loop in a healthy economy. The consumer sends back their message to companies, through their choices. Companies must adapt to consumers' will and choices or perish.

....

how is it win-win for oil companies to make obscene profits while they pollute the earth?  just what 'choice' does the consumer have when faced with a cartel; same for drugs, medical care (in the US), airline prices (even w 'competition' from a few carriers), ....

regulation is the reason for crony capitalism, rather capitalism continues DESPITE our regulations (often too weak to effect any change).  both parties in the US are complicit - the republicans more so, but the dems for the most part are not progressive. so the idea we can make necessary changes every 4 years is a fairy tale

Do you have a car? Is it a Tesla or some other electric car? If not, the oil companies are giving you exactly what YOU want. YOU are part of the problem. YOU are polluting the planet. YOU contribute to global warming.
Even if you are rich enough to afford an electric car, or to pay extra for renewable energy only, you shouldn't impose your choice and your ability to pay more, on poor people who worry about what to eat tomorrow.

When consumers will stop asking for oil, the oil companies will cease to be relevant. Until then, they are doing exactly what we, the consumers, are asking them to do.

Imagine a brilliant scientist who finds a new life-saving drug. For many years, he will never be able to sell that drug to the public. No small lab startup will ever be able to wait years for FDA approval. This is when Big Pharma is buying out that smart idea or they can choose to wait for the small lab to go bankrupt if they are stubborn enough to attempt to compete. Nobody is counting how many lives are lost because of excessive regulations.

Moreover, the same Big Pharma is, in most cases, the very author of that regulation, because they know that regulations are a killer weapon for small competitors, who could force their prices down if allowed to compete.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: 50% on March 29, 2020, 12:12

don't forget the Tiananmen Square massacre!


 :o

And don't forget the WWII.

Your move.
I assume you talk about Germany? Germany did well to overcome it's past. It is a complete different political system now. The criminals of WWII had been held accountable not only in the Nuremberg process but in many processes after war. Billions of reparation had been paid to the victims of WWII. Human rights are well protected in modern Germany. It is like in Spain where you have now a complete different political system that is not accountable for the crimes of the Franco regime.

It is very different in China it is not even the same political system when at a the time of the massacre it is even the same political clique that is still in power. None was ever held accountable for the crimes. Human rights are constantly broken in China.

But again hey good luck with your new friend China wish you well!
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: trabuco on March 29, 2020, 12:32

don't forget the Tiananmen Square massacre!


 :o

And don't forget the WWII.

Your move.
I assume you talk about Germany? Germany did well to overcome it's past. It is a complete different political system now. The criminals of WWII had been held accountable not only in the Nuremberg process but in many processes after war. Billions of reparation had been paid to the victims of WWII. Human rights are well protected in modern Germany. It is like in Spain where you have now a complete different political system that is not accountable for the crimes of the Franco regime.

It is very different in China it is not even the same political system when at a the time of the massacre it is even the same political clique that is still in power. None was ever held accountable for the crimes. Human rights are constantly broken in China.

But again hey good luck with your new friend China wish you well!


 :o


Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: trabuco on March 29, 2020, 12:45
We have lost one of the main countries of the EU, a f tragedy for all we the euro-enthusiastic and especially for me, an English and London lover.

Hope Merkel doesn't expel more of us.

I suppose that everybody in this forum knows well how Germany is in the present times. Glad to read that the political system there is quite different now  :o

Haven't seen Merkel's moustache anyway.

And I don't have any chinese friend, a few population in my village.

Regards.



Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: georgep7 on March 29, 2020, 13:11
let's either talk stock either talk serious if we are going to follow the "but Germany in the past" route.

ESM is here with some 420 billion to offer initial help plus QE. South EU countries including mine want free money.
Corona-bonds need someone (GErmany) to guarantee and pay if <-- this is an "if" striked out replaced with a:
when southerns say "nope, i cannot pay back"

Germany is not an angel in trade and politics tactics.
But it is out of mind to ask German politicians to convince German people to give away free money to other EU countries.
If they fall in order to keep EU united, Merkel will take the blame, vote for it and vanish, actually will evaporate forever from Bundestag.

More or less this is the main story as I see it. We ask Germans to do the hard work and put the most cash threatening that else we will dismantle EU.
UK is out, France will not lead, more possible will fall and follow Germany, rest of countries too weak to demand anything.
Why? Because when the conversation reach to money issue, everyone says "oh, you know..."

We had to choose a lockdown or a MASSIVE economy catastrophy.
We choosed to save people in Greece. And I am proud for this choice.
But knowing that we will pay this choice for years and years to come.
Knowing that inside this small country some selfish people will still have crazy priviledges and others will pay crazy taxation or lose business.

hah...
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: trabuco on March 29, 2020, 13:33
We ask Germans to do the hard work and put the most cash threatening that else we will dismantle EU.

Maybe we should not talk anymore about "the hard job and the germans and the southern countries and the siesta". In all european countries we use to work hard and It's quite insulting.

Nobody wants free money, but we can agree that this is a new situation that can test the Union and the behaviour of the members. I can't see any advantage in to leave the countries fall and then rescue them over their economic sovereignty.

Anyway, I was joking with the years that have past from Tiananmen  or the WWII


Apologies for my English.

Solidarity:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-portugal/portugal-to-treat-migrants-as-residents-during-coronavirus-crisis-idUSKBN21F0N7 (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-portugal/portugal-to-treat-migrants-as-residents-during-coronavirus-crisis-idUSKBN21F0N7)

Quote
Portugal to treat migrants as residents during coronavirus crisis


LISBON (Reuters) - All foreigners in Portugal with pending applications will be treated as permanent residents from Monday until at least July 1, authorities said on Saturday, to ensure migrants have access to public services during the coronavirus outbreak.


Regards.

Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Uncle Pete on March 29, 2020, 13:39
As we move into page ten, and I continue to discuss The Virus not politics or imaginary deep conspiracies, that someone makes up or believes, because someone else made them up. I thought some best information about the virus, at this time, could be interesting.

https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-compare-with-flu.html (https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-compare-with-flu.html)

In truth comparing the flu to COVID-19 is a poor comparison. But for the numbers, cases, how they are transmitted, and because people do compare, the article is interesting. One is not the other.

The only way we could know accurate numbers, would be if ever individual was tested. That will never happen. Known cases of the flu that are hospitalized are virtually 100%, and the rest are unknown. We don't know for a fact how many people have the virus with minimal symptoms, because they aren't reported or tested.

Many parts of this Pandemic could change and will change. For example, because we are only seeing confirmed cases and deaths reported, unconfirmed cases with infection, can't possibly be factored in, because they are unknown. You can't count something that isn't documented.

Headlines (click bait) Dr. Fauci says Deaths 100,000 3 hours ago, Microsoft News / Yahoo "Dr. Fauci says Deaths 200,000" 10 hours ago ABC / US News and World Report, then CNN Dr. Fauci says Deaths 100,000 to 200,000. There, pick your news source, for the way they lean? CNN seems to be the fairest on this one for admitting what Drs., leaders, politicians, infectious diseases experts and other actually Don't Know.

We won't see where this is going until May. That's my, I'm none of the above, but an observer of news, politics and society... prediction. People want answers, when there are none, and won't accept news that says "we just don't know yet". So answers are invented, even if honest based on best evidence, they are going to change. We don't know, there's not enough testing, not enough data.

Good reading, the transmission numbers, are interesting. Oh I mean the guess at transmission numbers and how long people are infectious or how soon into catching the virus, which we don't know. The peak we won't know until after that has happened. Deaths we might count, but only for known cases, never the unknown. The fact is, percentage of deaths from known cases will be much higher than deaths from total cases. Because no one will eve know how many total cases there are or were.

At this point China data: "The death rate soars to 14.8% in those 80 and older; among those ages 70 to 79, the COVID-19 death rate in China seems to be about 8%; it’s 3.6% for those ages 60 to 69; 1.3% for 50 to 59; 0.4% for the age group 40 to 49; and just 0.2% for people ages 10 to 39. No deaths in children under 9 have been reported. "

Last of all the CDCs MMWR for last week. (Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report) March 26th 2020

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6912e2.htm (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6912e2.htm)

In China and in the US statistics, 80% of deaths occurred among persons aged 60 years or older. Not that anyone should ignore the stay at home and health advise, but at least that's less gloomy for most of the people on this forum. (I'm 72)

A month? Who wants to wait a month to find out what's really going on. Let the improvised news and made up claims spread. Then in a month, when almost no one cares to look back, lets see what the truth is?  :)
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Tenebroso on March 29, 2020, 15:04
As we move into page ten, and I continue to discuss The Virus not politics or imaginary deep conspiracies, that someone makes up or believes, because someone else made them up. I thought some best information about the virus, at this time, could be interesting.

https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-compare-with-flu.html (https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-compare-with-flu.html)

In truth comparing the flu to COVID-19 is a poor comparison. But for the numbers, cases, how they are transmitted, and because people do compare, the article is interesting. One is not the other.

The only way we could know accurate numbers, would be if ever individual was tested. That will never happen. Known cases of the flu that are hospitalized are virtually 100%, and the rest are unknown. We don't know for a fact how many people have the virus with minimal symptoms, because they aren't reported or tested.

Many parts of this Pandemic could change and will change. For example, because we are only seeing confirmed cases and deaths reported, unconfirmed cases with infection, can't possibly be factored in, because they are unknown. You can't count something that isn't documented.

Headlines (click bait) Dr. Fauci says Deaths 100,000 3 hours ago, Microsoft News / Yahoo "Dr. Fauci says Deaths 200,000" 10 hours ago ABC / US News and World Report, then CNN Dr. Fauci says Deaths 100,000 to 200,000. There, pick your news source, for the way they lean? CNN seems to be the fairest on this one for admitting what Drs., leaders, politicians, infectious diseases experts and other actually Don't Know.

We won't see where this is going until May. That's my, I'm none of the above, but an observer of news, politics and society... prediction. People want answers, when there are none, and won't accept news that says "we just don't know yet". So answers are invented, even if honest based on best evidence, they are going to change. We don't know, there's not enough testing, not enough data.

Good reading, the transmission numbers, are interesting. Oh I mean the guess at transmission numbers and how long people are infectious or how soon into catching the virus, which we don't know. The peak we won't know until after that has happened. Deaths we might count, but only for known cases, never the unknown. The fact is, percentage of deaths from known cases will be much higher than deaths from total cases. Because no one will eve know how many total cases there are or were.

At this point China data: "The death rate soars to 14.8% in those 80 and older; among those ages 70 to 79, the COVID-19 death rate in China seems to be about 8%; it’s 3.6% for those ages 60 to 69; 1.3% for 50 to 59; 0.4% for the age group 40 to 49; and just 0.2% for people ages 10 to 39. No deaths in children under 9 have been reported. "

Last of all the CDCs MMWR for last week. (Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report) March 26th 2020

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6912e2.htm (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6912e2.htm)

In China and in the US statistics, 80% of deaths occurred among persons aged 60 years or older. Not that anyone should ignore the stay at home and health advise, but at least that's less gloomy for most of the people on this forum. (I'm 72)

A month? Who wants to wait a month to find out what's really going on. Let the improvised news and made up claims spread. Then in a month, when almost no one cares to look back, lets see what the truth is?  :)






Yes, I am totally satisfied with your comments. Only Trump matters. OKAY.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Tenebroso on March 29, 2020, 15:44
Obama had to do great, because the suffering you have, with which the country and the flag is yours, and Obama ruled illegitimate. How do I laugh, thanks.
You don't care about the truth, you only care about showing that Trump is doing great. And it is a great merit. Still, some believe that Trump's management is correct. Few, but some still remain.

Doubts about the number of cadavers, remember, it takes a long time to count in the elections, I do not think that counting cadavers are now the problem, rather, that there are many. Especially to each family of each victim, to them if it hurts and a lot, I mean the person the disappearance of the person, not the flu. to some, you are able to demonstrate that the earth is flat, but you see, many of us know that the earth is not flat. The media lie with the corpses, when you exceed the million dead, you will also doubt the number, and anything, because you only care about Hate.


Be clear, small towns will arrive. Many of us know the number of deaths from traffic accidents, influenza and possible related deaths, and we will also know the exact number of deaths from COVID-19 in each country. We, and as it will be in history, the following generations. They know that the global pandemic of COVID-19 came to the USA with the Trump administration at the forefront. The number of deaths. It will always be remembered.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: georgep7 on March 29, 2020, 15:46
Uncle Pete stands correct.

If mine or all politics comments in thread "Coronavirus" have to be removed i have no problem rather I owe an apology for going offtopic.

@trabuco it is a small planet, we are all together in this, best regards, stay safe :)
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: trabuco on March 30, 2020, 01:24
Uncle Pete stands correct.

If mine or all politics comments in thread "Coronavirus" have to be removed i have no problem rather I owe an apology for going offtopic.

@trabuco it is a small planet, we are all together in this, best regards, stay safe :)

Same to you George.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Pauws99 on March 30, 2020, 02:05
In competive capitalism the assumption you are making  is the only people affected by the transaction are the buyer and seller. They aren't.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Uncle Pete on March 30, 2020, 08:11
As we move into page ten, and I continue to discuss The Virus not politics or imaginary deep conspiracies, that someone makes up or believes, because someone else made them up. I thought some best information about the virus, at this time, could be interesting.

https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-compare-with-flu.html (https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-compare-with-flu.html)

In truth comparing the flu to COVID-19 is a poor comparison. But for the numbers, cases, how they are transmitted, and because people do compare, the article is interesting. One is not the other.

The only way we could know accurate numbers, would be if ever individual was tested. That will never happen. Known cases of the flu that are hospitalized are virtually 100%, and the rest are unknown. We don't know for a fact how many people have the virus with minimal symptoms, because they aren't reported or tested.

Many parts of this Pandemic could change and will change. For example, because we are only seeing confirmed cases and deaths reported, unconfirmed cases with infection, can't possibly be factored in, because they are unknown. You can't count something that isn't documented.

Headlines (click bait) Dr. Fauci says Deaths 100,000 3 hours ago, Microsoft News / Yahoo "Dr. Fauci says Deaths 200,000" 10 hours ago ABC / US News and World Report, then CNN Dr. Fauci says Deaths 100,000 to 200,000. There, pick your news source, for the way they lean? CNN seems to be the fairest on this one for admitting what Drs., leaders, politicians, infectious diseases experts and other actually Don't Know.

We won't see where this is going until May. That's my, I'm none of the above, but an observer of news, politics and society... prediction. People want answers, when there are none, and won't accept news that says "we just don't know yet". So answers are invented, even if honest based on best evidence, they are going to change. We don't know, there's not enough testing, not enough data.

Good reading, the transmission numbers, are interesting. Oh I mean the guess at transmission numbers and how long people are infectious or how soon into catching the virus, which we don't know. The peak we won't know until after that has happened. Deaths we might count, but only for known cases, never the unknown. The fact is, percentage of deaths from known cases will be much higher than deaths from total cases. Because no one will eve know how many total cases there are or were.

At this point China data: "The death rate soars to 14.8% in those 80 and older; among those ages 70 to 79, the COVID-19 death rate in China seems to be about 8%; it’s 3.6% for those ages 60 to 69; 1.3% for 50 to 59; 0.4% for the age group 40 to 49; and just 0.2% for people ages 10 to 39. No deaths in children under 9 have been reported. "

Last of all the CDCs MMWR for last week. (Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report) March 26th 2020

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6912e2.htm (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6912e2.htm)

In China and in the US statistics, 80% of deaths occurred among persons aged 60 years or older. Not that anyone should ignore the stay at home and health advise, but at least that's less gloomy for most of the people on this forum. (I'm 72)

A month? Who wants to wait a month to find out what's really going on. Let the improvised news and made up claims spread. Then in a month, when almost no one cares to look back, lets see what the truth is?  :)






Yes, I am totally satisfied with your comments. Only Trump matters. OKAY.

what I listed links and facts and you turn it into some political trash talk?

The news services spin the numbers, some low, some high and others list what Dr. Fauci actually said, "could be between 1000,000 and 200,000" The rest is real data.

Uncle Pete stands correct.

If mine or all politics comments in thread "Coronavirus" have to be removed i have no problem rather I owe an apology for going offtopic.

@trabuco it is a small planet, we are all together in this, best regards, stay safe :)

No no, that's not the point. One discussion is about the actual subject and some others are about world politics. No one should be censored. Just that if I write about data, the virus and people being sick and dying, I don't expect the reply to be some BS about a politician, which has nothing to do with what I wrote?

And I said May, which was 100% my personal opinion. Until we have a peak, we can't have a recovery. Maybe something will start to look a little normal by June? All I can hope is for some better weather and I can do some of the yard and garden work I've been neglecting for a few years. Well, I have a list?  :)

Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Tenebroso on March 30, 2020, 11:34
BS?

Being a flu, and not having universal health care, we were all aware of the death toll, the most pessimistic figures since January 2020 by American experts are 1,800,000 deaths if nothing is done. Since contagion has been fostered rather by misinforming the population, and creating false hopes with vaccines and miracle drugs, my opinion is that the 2 million victims in the United States will be exceeded.

Seeing the results of other countries, it will give us the real magnitude of what happened in countries like Brazil, Mexico and the USA. In a few months, the next wave of contagious will come. I don't know if the United States will try to stop it and control it from the beginning or not. We'll see. NY citizens are aware of what is coming to countries like Mexico or Brazil. It is simple, it is a matter of neurons not of hair beauty.

If the Fake News were fined and the right to information were granted to the American people, disinformative trolls would stop creating chaos and hatred. Since there are people who still maintain that the USA is doing its utmost to eradicate COVID-19. And some still believe it.

Some go to church in a group and others proud of their followers on Twitter and a boat photo. You see, the story is going to be very cruel to Trump. Does the truth bother you? It is not just from the cities, it will reach Rural America.


Both you and I can say what we want. truth?


I'm going to be honest. I like Trump.


I have spent years fighting for Article 13 of the EU.


The problem observed in the USA is the sentence that hate cannot be legislated.



This is the synthesis of the problem and the radicalization of American society.


If the court had ruled, hatred cannot be legislated, since it is a personal sentiment that cannot be legislated, however, its public manifestation will be monitored so that it does not conflict with other rights such as the right to information. Therefore, public manifestations of hatred will be brought to court and each group attacked, each individual whose right to freedom is violated will take the appropriate measure in order to eradicate hate in public.

The concept of freedom of expression is being used to silence the population. people do not want problems or to argue. Look the other way and the population is systematically attacked. Your privacy and selective manipulation of your brain. A big problem.

There will be people who hate Asians, that the dead are not that many, and endless conspiracies. All in order to ensure that the president has done his best since January, and it is Biden who is trying to blame everything on Trump. I don't like Trump's political opponents. None.

I think if you eradicate public hatred and punish the fake News it will be the end of the problem.


Can't censor possible terrorists very organized on the internet in the USA?


Well, I don't see a possible solution.
Since people think that the EU is Muslim, without borders, and a lot of other crap because of the * hatred generated by the mafias. There are people who do not know how to place Barcelona on the map, it is not a problem, the problem is that they think that we cover the statues so as not to disturb. We are ruled by feminists and a lot of crap that the only thing you get is hate.

Let him do the tariffs on the wine and olives he wants. Let him rule his style. It doesn't bother us. We are bothered by the hatred in the networks that splashes up to here. Fortunately, American multinationals understand this. Hate in the EU does not work. And they remove it from our minors.


I prefer Trump, than the one who comes later supported by white supremacist organizations, because Trump will be a saint compared to the next.

The virus is not seen, this virus is very bad. Hate is worse.



You should know that there is an American population that thinks that the followers of Sanders will burn cities if they do not win, others think that they will hang millionaires. In addition, the massive rapes in Sweden, as well as the invasion of the border by a group of women and children who were known not to happen, there are also people who affirm that the feminist leader in NY has ties to The terrorism.


If it had arrived in December it was not a problem, now the problem is, how to manipulate American society with the fake news fan to remove the virus issue from your brain and see your POTU as the great savior of the homeland.

The manipulation of a society that does not believe in the media and gives credibility to the neighbor.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: DallasP on March 30, 2020, 17:24
Quote
life will become very quiet

outdoors.

but indoors will be active as usual.
From bloggers to youtubers, from social to advertising
to whatever job can be done remotely from home,

electronic media will work as normal if not extra time.

(perhaps)

It already is. The musicians and stuff that all had their spring and possibly summer canceled are all doing live streams. They nearly crashed Facebook the other night.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: trabuco on March 31, 2020, 01:05
I'm pretty worried about the excepcional powers that politicans and policemen have now in my country and in another countries in Europe.

Today I have to go to buy food for 10 days and have to drive 10km to find a mall where can buy all the supplies. If I find a patrol in my route I could be fined because there are not clear rules to my small trip to get food. You can buy food, but they don't say to you where or how and the policemen and soldiers have the right now to fine you with an unkown fine, imposed by other authority by their own criteria with no rules either. In my small village It's imposible to get all the supplies, so the risk could be 300 to 30.000 euros (or even more) if I find an stupid patrol man (a lot of them in traffic patrols, they believe they are Sheriffs).

I have a PO box in that village too and have to get my mail.

Feel like I'm going to war, because you can't have an argument with the patrols (could be charged with disobedience, a crime). I mean, if they fine me I have to keep my mouth shut, even whether I have the right to buy food and get my mail.


Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on March 31, 2020, 07:01

Except that, as shown above, the opposite is true. ;)

Effective Covid-19 tests from Europe couldn't be imported in the US, exactly because of our very strict FDA regulations.
The absence of testing in the US is certainly the reason for the extensive spread of the virus.
Many deaths could have been avoided by early testing. Check that screenshot from NY Times, I posted above.

Besides, our very strict FDA regulations are preventing drug imports, thus reducing the competition on the US market.
This is also why, many drug companies currently enjoy a virtually monopolistic situation, being protected against foreign competition and smaller domestic competitors by our strict FDA regulations.

Lower prices are not achieved through a government fiat, but through competition.

A screenshot of a headline doesn't really show anything though does it. Someone else could just easily cherry-pick an editorial about the medical company that bought out a smaller company that was mass producing cheap ventilators just so they could shut them down and protect their more expensive ventilator range. 

The reason those tests weren't purchased by the US could just as easily be argued to be because the  "the Trump administration had “incredibly limited” views of the pathogen’s potential impact" and Trump was "dismissive of the threat to the public’s health or the nation’s economy. By the end of the month, Mr. Trump claimed the virus was about to dissipate in the United States, saying: “It’s going to disappear. One day — it’s like a miracle — it will disappear."”

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/28/us/testing-coronavirus-pandemic.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/28/us/testing-coronavirus-pandemic.html)

If the administration took the threat seriously restrictions could have been waved in light of the emergency. Instead it wasn't even recognised as an emergency.

Hate to say it but you seem to be seeing everything in anti-government lens.

Arguing that the answer to corporations having too much control over government leading to anti-competitive practices and preservation of monopolies is to dis-empower government, rather than curbing the power of corporations seems bizarre to say the least.

Do you think corporations are just going to be like "cool we'll chill out then" while that happens, or do you think they will use the opportunity presented by weakened government to take ever more control over all our lives as any checks on their power is removed? A weakened government is just easier to capture.

The question is of course rhetorical, as it has been going on for decades and you can see the result today. Big business will always try and take control of political leavers of power, and the only way to prevent is political engagement and education of the populous.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on March 31, 2020, 07:15
...
I don't know much about NHS, I see opinions on both sides from people who actually live where you are. I trust those more than some political writer here, with a personal agenda. Same goes for people who have never been to the US, telling us about who we are and how we live.
...

I am in the UK and have literally never heard anyone say the NHS is a bad idea.

The only complaints people have as far as I'm aware is about how it has been gutted by successive governments with a neo-liberal agenda and sold off piece by piece resulting in worse service.

On a related note, is anyone here in the UK close to NHS workers? Everyone I know that is either a doctor or nurse has had very "mixed" (to put it politely) feelings about the clapping appreciation thing that happened the other day (given the amount of people repeatedly voting in Conservative governments and what they have been doing to the NHS).

I was wondering if this is universal. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Zero Talent on March 31, 2020, 10:51

Except that, as shown above, the opposite is true. ;)

Effective Covid-19 tests from Europe couldn't be imported in the US, exactly because of our very strict FDA regulations.
The absence of testing in the US is certainly the reason for the extensive spread of the virus.
Many deaths could have been avoided by early testing. Check that screenshot from NY Times, I posted above.

Besides, our very strict FDA regulations are preventing drug imports, thus reducing the competition on the US market.
This is also why, many drug companies currently enjoy a virtually monopolistic situation, being protected against foreign competition and smaller domestic competitors by our strict FDA regulations.

Lower prices are not achieved through a government fiat, but through competition.

A screenshot of a headline doesn't really show anything though does it. Someone else could just easily cherry-pick an editorial about the medical company that bought out a smaller company that was mass producing cheap ventilators just so they could shut them down and protect their more expensive ventilator range. 

The reason those tests weren't purchased by the US could just as easily be argued to be because the  "the Trump administration had “incredibly limited” views of the pathogen’s potential impact" and Trump was "dismissive of the threat to the public’s health or the nation’s economy. By the end of the month, Mr. Trump claimed the virus was about to dissipate in the United States, saying: “It’s going to disappear. One day — it’s like a miracle — it will disappear."”

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/28/us/testing-coronavirus-pandemic.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/28/us/testing-coronavirus-pandemic.html)

If the administration took the threat seriously restrictions could have been waved in light of the emergency. Instead it wasn't even recognised as an emergency.

Hate to say it but you seem to be seeing everything in anti-government lens.

Arguing that the answer to corporations having too much control over government leading to anti-competitive practices and preservation of monopolies is to dis-empower government, rather than curbing the power of corporations seems bizarre to say the least.

Do you think corporations are just going to be like "cool we'll chill out then" while that happens, or do you think they will use the opportunity presented by weakened government to take ever more control over all our lives as any checks on their power is removed? A weakened government is just easier to capture.

The question is of course rhetorical, as it has been going on for decades and you can see the result today. Big business will always try and take control of political leavers of power, and the only way to prevent is political engagement and education of the populous.

Yes, I agree that our president is a moron, no debate here.

What I find interesting to see how you justify the suspension of a law, instead of questioning the efficiency of that law, in the first place.

What I also find interesting is that you think that somehow corporations will take over your life, instead of realizing that this crisis, like many other crises (think 9/11) are used by governments to take even more control of our lives. Bit by bit, pieces of your freedom are chipped away.
Remember also that in a competitive economy, you have a choice. You can say no to a corporation and go with a competitor.
There is no competition for your government. Refuse to comply and coercion will be used against you. Your physical freedom will be at risk.
This is why you should fight for your freedom to choose, for competition, for your right to say no, not for the opposite of that.

Moreover, on one hand, you admit that corporations will always be in cahoots with the government, but on the other hand, you believe that the government is here to protect you against corporations (!?). Don't you see the logical contradiction here?

Yes, I understand that asking for more economic freedom, as a solution against corruption and crony-capitalism, might sound bizarre when analyzed superficially. But it is backed by strong logical arguments, not discovered by me, but by reputable economists. Try to follow their arguments and you might be surprised.

Yes, I also agree that the solution is education. People must stop believing that politicians are messiahs destined to save them from evil corporations. Politicians will always try to save themselves first while trying to make you believe that they sacrifice themselves to save you. Remember that they are in bed with their sponsor.

When voters will stop believing in fairy tales and stop asking for more of that, we will be one step closer to the real solution.

This is why the power of the government to interfere with our economical freedom must be limited, the same way the constitution is limiting the power of the government to interfere with our civil liberties. We need an economical bill of rights.

Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Tenebroso on March 31, 2020, 11:04
The solution in the USA is to stay away from politics. Three options, each state are in charge of putting citizens at home, security forces checking that the one on the street is due to going to the emergency room, or food, controlling elderly people who live alone and attending to them, controlling nursing homes, the subject of prisons, enabling spaces to care for and isolate the lightly ill near hospitals. Either all states are organized through their Governors or, the state takes charge together with the governors to carry out a plan to contain the pandemic.

and not enter the game of whether the POTU does something or not, that is left to the trolls, to save lives. Then, those who only care about hatred, not the people or the country, but Trump, let the people speak in the presidential elections.

A team of scientists, doctors, and security forces in a common plan is what the USA needs. A command with a plan, stop the pandemic.
It will be done, for sure. The issue is, how many deaths does it take to get serious to stop it.

The country is already broken, in total recession. As for health, you are all millionaires, and taking an x-ray of an immigrant does not fit in the minds of the American people. It is better for insurance companies to force hospitals to discharge on Fridays, not Mondays, as they save meals. marketing and doing business with health, is only conceived in the country of the dollar.

I am not talking about the quality of the doctors, I am talking about business with people.
It is yours if you want to continue to have the most expensive health care among developed countries, where people commit suicide because they cannot afford insulin.

Your business, also who you choose as president. More pandemics are coming, in two or twenty years. In reality you will vote depending on the quality of sectarian broken brains for information manipulation that is capable of denying reality.



For example, that environmental pollution and climate change is an invention of the left to earn money. it's from a brutal brainwashing.


Are we talking about politics or a pandemic?
Do you want to talk about giving only a wood to black people because with a gun they kill?
Can you imagine yourself in the emergency room with a poor person?



Hate is incapable of saving you. 2 million dead, maybe more. And the POTU taking photos with boats like salvation, from what?


200,000 dead is a success for him, then when they exceed 2 million he will say that his management has also been a success. Do you have boats to send to Las Vegas?


USA is in shape, are you going to open on Easter? Not only does he do nothing, but his behavior is no longer funny. If a country is going to change socially and mentally it is going to be the USA. The whole planet is going to experience something historic, but the USA is going big.


Yesterday China and Russia helped you, hopefully they will continue to do so.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: [email protected] on March 31, 2020, 11:06
I live in Shanghai, China. Now our country is half open, comfortable, and can travel around. But the shutter suck is not enough. Let's go out and ride a motorcycle to the countryside.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: cascoly on April 03, 2020, 10:35
The solution in the USA is to stay away from politics. Three options, each state are in charge of putting citizens at home, security forces checking that the one on the street is due to going to the emergency room, or food, controlling elderly people who live alone and attending to them, controlling nursing homes, the subject of prisons, enabling spaces to care for and isolate the lightly ill near hospitals. Either all states are organized through their Governors or, the state takes charge together with the governors to carry out a plan to contain the pandemic.

and not enter the game of whether the POTU does something or not, that is left to the trolls, to save lives. Then, those who only care about hatred, not the people or the country, but Trump, let the people speak in the presidential elections.
...

of course it's political --

by the election we'll have lost tens of thousands who didnt have to die - trump is holding up aid to states that didnt vote for him (saying they're not appreciative of the fantastic job he's doing)

and states are competing with each other, driving prices up  due to price gouging and war profiteering.  the federal govt needs to control and regulate both the production and distribution

trump's daily briefings are nothing but propaganda (since his rallies are shut down), and the actual health folks speaking are mostly sycophants (fauci being the exception)

for 2 months, trump did NOTHING; now he says NY wont need 20,000+ ventilators since they've never used 2000 before AND that states should have stockpiled years ago (he always shifts the blame to others for his own misdeeds)

right wing states are trying to claim that abortions are elective and should be put off (for several months?)

and most obscene - after claiming a miracle would solve all cases in 15 days, he now says that 100,000 - 200,000 deaths as a victory for his policies!
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Tenebroso on April 03, 2020, 12:41
It is impossible to fight against a population that already in 2016 turned away from information and their brains feed on radical misinformation on the extreme right, hatred. That the USA is in danger because half the population lives with the zombie brain is a reality. Sorry, Fake News, Hate speech is the problem. The misinterpretation of the amendment, Freedom of Expression for organizing mafia groups that hide the reality from their population.

I have spent years struggling with this issue, it is impossible. The victims of sects, have their brains programmed, for anyone who tells them the truth, it is simply a test of the devil.


The problem has been reported for decades. There is no solution, as long as privacy is allowed to invade with deceptive advertising on demand, directly to the brains of good people.

Before they can analyze the data for themselves, they are already receiving new data. They do not think for themselves, it is simply the greatest manipulation of the brain in history. They are not able to see reality.

There is no solution. They don't believe in the media, they just believe that the left has the smallest brain and that they want to end the Constitution and the fundamental rights of the good American. If you don't hate, you're not a good American. It is an authentic drama. To end this tragedy, you have to show solidarity and fight together, and that makes some allergic.


But for the interest of a few, although the entire town is a millionaire, simply indebted to multinationals, and living from paycheck to paycheck, the important thing is Venezuela, Iran or China. This will maintain the authentic union of the people in the barbecue and will fight against the invasion of the borders. It is so ridiculous, that anyone from 7 years out of the USA laughs.


It is not laughable, it is very sad, since it is not so ridiculous to see reality, but it must be treated as a disease, which attacks half of the population, and we are talking about many millions of people, who will be able to hate China instead of trying to solve a great problem, a pandemic in the USA with health for millionaires and a population faced in the most absolute radicalization, as a way of life.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Zero Talent on April 03, 2020, 17:23
There is no solution,

Here is another potential solution:

https://youtu.be/TfQij4aQq1k
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Tenebroso on April 03, 2020, 19:36
Interesting, thanks.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Uncle Pete on April 04, 2020, 10:28
The CDC has reversed its recommendations about using face masks as the coronavirus pandemic develops.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Tenebroso on April 04, 2020, 11:11
To put computers to work in the search for medicines. COVID-19
Calculations between all computers participating in the world.
https://foldingathome.org/

if you want to join the Spanish group of La reunion Secreta
Team Number: 257538
https://youtu.be/zTZg4mxB2wk
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Shelma1 on April 04, 2020, 14:26
The CDC has reversed its recommendations about using face masks as the coronavirus pandemic develops.

You left out the part where Trump told everyone it was voluntary several times, and also said several times he won’t be wearing one, while standing right next to all his cronies.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: YadaYadaYada on April 04, 2020, 21:09
The CDC has reversed its recommendations about using face masks as the coronavirus pandemic develops.

You left out the part where Trump told everyone it was voluntary several times, and also said several times he won’t be wearing one, while standing right next to all his cronies.

It is voluntary, the CDC isn't Trump, who cares about Trump, he can wear a mask or not. The CDC says recommended that we now wear masks. Trump can go die with no mask and make people happy.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Video-StockOrg on April 05, 2020, 01:33
The CDC has reversed its recommendations about using face masks as the coronavirus pandemic develops.

You left out the part where Trump told everyone it was voluntary several times, and also said several times he won’t be wearing one, while standing right next to all his cronies.

It is voluntary, the CDC isn't Trump, who cares about Trump, he can wear a mask or not. The CDC says recommended that we now wear masks. Trump can go die with no mask and make people happy.

#TrumpDerangementSyndrome
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Shelma1 on April 05, 2020, 06:32
The CDC has reversed its recommendations about using face masks as the coronavirus pandemic develops.

You left out the part where Trump told everyone it was voluntary several times, and also said several times he won’t be wearing one, while standing right next to all his cronies.

It is voluntary, the CDC isn't Trump, who cares about Trump, he can wear a mask or not. The CDC says recommended that we now wear masks. Trump can go die with no mask and make people happy.

I don't care what happens to him. But his followers put healthcare workers' lives at risk by continuing to spread the virus.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Video-StockOrg on April 05, 2020, 06:37
The CDC has reversed its recommendations about using face masks as the coronavirus pandemic develops.

You left out the part where Trump told everyone it was voluntary several times, and also said several times he won’t be wearing one, while standing right next to all his cronies.

It is voluntary, the CDC isn't Trump, who cares about Trump, he can wear a mask or not. The CDC says recommended that we now wear masks. Trump can go die with no mask and make people happy.

I don't care what happens to him. But his followers put healthcare workers' lives at risk by continuing to spread the virus.

You mean the democratic mayor of New York is putting everybody at risk because he denied the seriousness of the virus. Go check your facts, lad.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: ShadySue on April 05, 2020, 09:28
The CDC has reversed its recommendations about using face masks as the coronavirus pandemic develops.

You left out the part where Trump told everyone it was voluntary several times, and also said several times he won’t be wearing one, while standing right next to all his cronies.
And what heads of state, presidents, dictators, kings or queens are going to be visiting him in the White House during the pandemic?
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Shelma1 on April 05, 2020, 09:57
The CDC has reversed its recommendations about using face masks as the coronavirus pandemic develops.

You left out the part where Trump told everyone it was voluntary several times, and also said several times he won’t be wearing one, while standing right next to all his cronies.

It is voluntary, the CDC isn't Trump, who cares about Trump, he can wear a mask or not. The CDC says recommended that we now wear masks. Trump can go die with no mask and make people happy.

I don't care what happens to him. But his followers put healthcare workers' lives at risk by continuing to spread the virus.

You mean the democratic mayor of New York is putting everybody at risk because he denied the seriousness of the virus. Go check your facts, lad.

First I’d better check to see whether I’ve grown a penis, since apparently I’ve become a lad.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Shelma1 on April 05, 2020, 09:58
The CDC has reversed its recommendations about using face masks as the coronavirus pandemic develops.

You left out the part where Trump told everyone it was voluntary several times, and also said several times he won’t be wearing one, while standing right next to all his cronies.
And what heads of state, presidents, dictators, kings or queens are going to be visiting him in the White House during the pandemic?

What...they’re not all lining up to bow before him? Fake news! Lol.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Zero Talent on April 05, 2020, 10:19
The CDC has reversed its recommendations about using face masks as the coronavirus pandemic develops.

You left out the part where Trump told everyone it was voluntary several times, and also said several times he won’t be wearing one, while standing right next to all his cronies.

It is voluntary, the CDC isn't Trump, who cares about Trump, he can wear a mask or not. The CDC says recommended that we now wear masks. Trump can go die with no mask and make people happy.

I don't care what happens to him. But his followers put healthcare workers' lives at risk by continuing to spread the virus.

You mean the democratic mayor of New York is putting everybody at risk because he denied the seriousness of the virus. Go check your facts, lad.

A classical case of whataboutism.

Allow me to highlight that what the POTUS has to say is many, many times more important than what any other politician has to say.
He is the most powerful voice in the country and he must be hold responsible for his early denial and mocking of the whole crisis, for his lack of leadership and for his appalling lack of action in getting the country ready to deal with it.

Have a look here:
https://youtu.be/NezEbDx4B9A

Having said that, Blasio is also a failure.

Let's fire them both, ASAP!

Deal?
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Video-StockOrg on April 05, 2020, 11:32
The CDC has reversed its recommendations about using face masks as the coronavirus pandemic develops.

You left out the part where Trump told everyone it was voluntary several times, and also said several times he won’t be wearing one, while standing right next to all his cronies.

It is voluntary, the CDC isn't Trump, who cares about Trump, he can wear a mask or not. The CDC says recommended that we now wear masks. Trump can go die with no mask and make people happy.

I don't care what happens to him. But his followers put healthcare workers' lives at risk by continuing to spread the virus.

You mean the democratic mayor of New York is putting everybody at risk because he denied the seriousness of the virus. Go check your facts, lad.

A classical case of whataboutism.

Allow me to highlight that what the POTUS has to say is many, many times more important than what any other politician has to say.
He is the most powerful voice in the country and he must be hold responsible for his early denial and mocking of the whole crisis, for his lack of leadership and for his appalling lack of action in getting the country ready to deal with it.

Have a look here:
https://youtu.be/NezEbDx4B9A

Having said that, Blasio is also a failure.

Let's fire them both, ASAP!

Deal?

I would love to see whole statements. Because media loves to clip out only snippets that suit their agenda. I've seen this so many times that I don't trust any f*cking media anymore. Trump blocked any travel from and to China in January because of the virus and the media marked him xhenophobic. How could that go together with his "denial" statements? Go figure.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Zero Talent on April 05, 2020, 13:01
The CDC has reversed its recommendations about using face masks as the coronavirus pandemic develops.

You left out the part where Trump told everyone it was voluntary several times, and also said several times he won’t be wearing one, while standing right next to all his cronies.

It is voluntary, the CDC isn't Trump, who cares about Trump, he can wear a mask or not. The CDC says recommended that we now wear masks. Trump can go die with no mask and make people happy.

I don't care what happens to him. But his followers put healthcare workers' lives at risk by continuing to spread the virus.

You mean the democratic mayor of New York is putting everybody at risk because he denied the seriousness of the virus. Go check your facts, lad.

A classical case of whataboutism.

Allow me to highlight that what the POTUS has to say is many, many times more important than what any other politician has to say.
He is the most powerful voice in the country and he must be hold responsible for his early denial and mocking of the whole crisis, for his lack of leadership and for his appalling lack of action in getting the country ready to deal with it.

Have a look here:
https://youtu.be/NezEbDx4B9A

Having said that, Blasio is also a failure.

Let's fire them both, ASAP!

Deal?

I would love to see whole statements. Because media loves to clip out only snippets that suit their agenda. I've seen this so many times that I don't trust any f*cking media anymore. Trump blocked any travel from and to China in January because of the virus and the media marked him xhenophobic. How could that go together with his "denial" statements? Go figure.

Yeah right. When the media is reporting about de Blasio's failures, the media is real news. But when the same media is reporting about how Trump failed to get our country ready, it's "fake news".
Look who's talking about cherry-picking only what fits one's agenda.   ;)

Sorry, but you can't have it both ways.

And if you would really love to see the whole statements, just look them up. All the interviews, press conferences and rallies when he downplayed and mocked the virus crisis, failing to act, failing to do what was needed to save lives, are widely available.

Leaving the mocking aside, the failure to get people tested, the failure to secure enough protective equipment, etc, were all mistakes that led to a national disaster.

The evidence is overwhelming.

So I'm asking again: since you brought him up, are you ready to fire both de Blasio and Trump for their incompetence?
 ;)
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Video-StockOrg on April 05, 2020, 14:49
https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1217043229427761152 (https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1217043229427761152)
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: SpaceStockFootage on April 05, 2020, 17:14
https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1217043229427761152 (https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1217043229427761152)

Yes... preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel coronavirus. Later investigations conducted by the Chinese (and other) authorities did find clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel coronavirus. What's your point?
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: cascoly on April 05, 2020, 22:04
The CDC has reversed its recommendations about using face masks as the coronavirus pandemic develops.

You left out the part where Trump told everyone it was voluntary several times, and also said several times he won’t be wearing one, while standing right next to all his cronies.
evolution in action?
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: cascoly on April 05, 2020, 22:12


I would love to see whole statements. Because media loves to clip out only snippets that suit their agenda. I've seen this so many times that I don't trust any f*cking media anymore. Trump blocked any travel from and to China in January because of the virus and the media marked him xhenophobic. How could that go together with his "denial" statements? Go figure.

yes, the xenophobic president ( he still calls it the chinese virus) blocked travel but he did NOTHING to prepare for the pandemic here - 2 months wasted for which thousands will die. for MONTHS he declared the virus to be a hoax and tht  the '15' cases would miraculously disappear - now he says he was the first to call it a pandemic, and that 200k deaths will be a victory for his policies!

even now he still resists central planning/logistics to keep prices down while sending resources where they're needed-- just listen to him - everything he blames on others is something he actually did - eg chastising governors for not planning years ago when he destroyed the obama era pandemic task force & ignored wargaming that exposed the peris of a pandemic(he said "no one could have predicted ths")
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: cascoly on April 05, 2020, 22:14
from 538:

The number of reported COVID-19 cases is not a very useful indicator of anything unless you also know something about how tests are being conducted.
In fact, in some cases, places with lower nominal case counts may actually be worse off. In general, a high number of tests is associated with a more robust medical infrastructure and a more adept government response to the coronavirus. ...

Germany, for example, which is conducting about 50,000 tests per day — seven times more than the U.K. — has more than twice as many reported cases as the U.K., but they’ve also had only about one-third as many deaths....

Doing more tests is good, and likely leads to better long-run outcomes, even if it also results in higher case counts that people will freak out about in the short run. I don’t usually like to be so didactic, but I hope you’ll be a more educated consumer of COVID-19 data instead of just looking at case counts ticking upward on cable news screens without context. That context includes not only reporting about the amount of testing, but also indications such as hospital strain, which are more robust since they aren’t subject to as many vagaries about how tests are conducted.8 Even if you’re not from New York, Gov. Andrew Cuomo’s daily briefings are worth watching because they do the best job I’ve seen of providing this context.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/coronavirus-case-counts-are-meaningless/
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Minsc on April 05, 2020, 22:44
No president can stop the Coronavirus. We'd get the same result no matter who is in charge. The US has a system where governors have tremendous power over their states and can overrule the president in many things.

The failure to contain the Coronavirus is on the states as much as it's on the federal level. Doesn't matter though, the results would have been the same. We spend decades outsourcing our production of medical supplies to China. When the world's factory shut down in January and February, every country was struggling to stock up on medical supplies. That's why the European countries are suffering as much as we are.

We simply relied on China too much and now we're paying the price.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: SpaceStockFootage on April 06, 2020, 00:58
Yeah right. When the media is reporting about de Blasio's failures, the media is real news. But when the same media is reporting about how Trump failed to get our country ready, it's "fake news".
Look who's talking about cherry-picking only what fits one's agenda.   ;)

Sorry, but you can't have it both ways.

It's always the same... Obama wasn't born in the US, he's a terrorist, he hates America, is a Muslim, would support Muslims over the US: all credible news.

Trump doesn't have as much money as he says he does, he dodged the draft, is racist and sexist, it wasn't a perfect call, he's most definitely not a stable genius, he doesn't have the best words: FAKE NEWS!
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: pics2 on April 06, 2020, 02:12
One of my files has just been sold in Wuhan, China according to Latest Downloads Location stats on SS! I'm so happy to see that! Let's hope that things are getting better!
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Pauws99 on April 06, 2020, 03:17
"No president can stop the Coronavirus. We'd get the same result no matter who is in charge." So whatever decision the President makes makes no difference? The "President" isn't in charge anyway the people around him aren't that daft.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Pauws99 on April 06, 2020, 03:36
from 538:

The number of reported COVID-19 cases is not a very useful indicator of anything unless you also know something about how tests are being conducted.
In fact, in some cases, places with lower nominal case counts may actually be worse off. In general, a high number of tests is associated with a more robust medical infrastructure and a more adept government response to the coronavirus. ...

Germany, for example, which is conducting about 50,000 tests per day — seven times more than the U.K. — has more than twice as many reported cases as the U.K., but they’ve also had only about one-third as many deaths....

Doing more tests is good, and likely leads to better long-run outcomes, even if it also results in higher case counts that people will freak out about in the short run. I don’t usually like to be so didactic, but I hope you’ll be a more educated consumer of COVID-19 data instead of just looking at case counts ticking upward on cable news screens without context. That context includes not only reporting about the amount of testing, but also indications such as hospital strain, which are more robust since they aren’t subject to as many vagaries about how tests are conducted.8 Even if you’re not from New York, Gov. Andrew Cuomo’s daily briefings are worth watching because they do the best job I’ve seen of providing this context.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/coronavirus-case-counts-are-meaningless/
Even deaths are not reliable as different countries are reporting differently e.g UK are only just incorporating non hospital deaths. The rates of increase or decrease within individual countries is the important factor. We can see that the more people adhere to Social Distancing the more the effect on deaths/cases increases whatever the inconsistencies of measures.
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Video-StockOrg on April 06, 2020, 03:37
The CDC has reversed its recommendations about using face masks as the coronavirus pandemic develops.

You left out the part where Trump told everyone it was voluntary several times, and also said several times he won’t be wearing one, while standing right next to all his cronies.

It is voluntary, the CDC isn't Trump, who cares about Trump, he can wear a mask or not. The CDC says recommended that we now wear masks. Trump can go die with no mask and make people happy.

I don't care what happens to him. But his followers put healthcare workers' lives at risk by continuing to spread the virus.

You mean the democratic mayor of New York is putting everybody at risk because he denied the seriousness of the virus. Go check your facts, lad.

A classical case of whataboutism.

Allow me to highlight that what the POTUS has to say is many, many times more important than what any other politician has to say.
He is the most powerful voice in the country and he must be hold responsible for his early denial and mocking of the whole crisis, for his lack of leadership and for his appalling lack of action in getting the country ready to deal with it.

Have a look here:
https://youtu.be/NezEbDx4B9A (https://youtu.be/NezEbDx4B9A)

Having said that, Blasio is also a failure.

Let's fire them both, ASAP!

Deal?

I would love to see whole statements. Because media loves to clip out only snippets that suit their agenda. I've seen this so many times that I don't trust any f*cking media anymore. Trump blocked any travel from and to China in January because of the virus and the media marked him xhenophobic. How could that go together with his "denial" statements? Go figure.

Yeah right. When the media is reporting about de Blasio's failures, the media is real news. But when the same media is reporting about how Trump failed to get our country ready, it's "fake news".
Look who's talking about cherry-picking only what fits one's agenda.   ;)

Sorry, but you can't have it both ways.

And if you would really love to see the whole statements, just look them up. All the interviews, press conferences and rallies when he downplayed and mocked the virus crisis, failing to act, failing to do what was needed to save lives, are widely available.

Leaving the mocking aside, the failure to get people tested, the failure to secure enough protective equipment, etc, were all mistakes that led to a national disaster.

The evidence is overwhelming.

So I'm asking again: since you brought him up, are you ready to fire both de Blasio and Trump for their incompetence?
 ;)

Enjoy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCzJlhE35YM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCzJlhE35YM)
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: Zero Talent on April 06, 2020, 07:48
The CDC has reversed its recommendations about using face masks as the coronavirus pandemic develops.

You left out the part where Trump told everyone it was voluntary several times, and also said several times he won’t be wearing one, while standing right next to all his cronies.

It is voluntary, the CDC isn't Trump, who cares about Trump, he can wear a mask or not. The CDC says recommended that we now wear masks. Trump can go die with no mask and make people happy.

I don't care what happens to him. But his followers put healthcare workers' lives at risk by continuing to spread the virus.

You mean the democratic mayor of New York is putting everybody at risk because he denied the seriousness of the virus. Go check your facts, lad.

A classical case of whataboutism.

Allow me to highlight that what the POTUS has to say is many, many times more important than what any other politician has to say.
He is the most powerful voice in the country and he must be hold responsible for his early denial and mocking of the whole crisis, for his lack of leadership and for his appalling lack of action in getting the country ready to deal with it.

Have a look here:
https://youtu.be/NezEbDx4B9A (https://youtu.be/NezEbDx4B9A)

Having said that, Blasio is also a failure.

Let's fire them both, ASAP!

Deal?

I would love to see whole statements. Because media loves to clip out only snippets that suit their agenda. I've seen this so many times that I don't trust any f*cking media anymore. Trump blocked any travel from and to China in January because of the virus and the media marked him xhenophobic. How could that go together with his "denial" statements? Go figure.

Yeah right. When the media is reporting about de Blasio's failures, the media is real news. But when the same media is reporting about how Trump failed to get our country ready, it's "fake news".
Look who's talking about cherry-picking only what fits one's agenda.   ;)

Sorry, but you can't have it both ways.

And if you would really love to see the whole statements, just look them up. All the interviews, press conferences and rallies when he downplayed and mocked the virus crisis, failing to act, failing to do what was needed to save lives, are widely available.

Leaving the mocking aside, the failure to get people tested, the failure to secure enough protective equipment, etc, were all mistakes that led to a national disaster.

The evidence is overwhelming.

So I'm asking again: since you brought him up, are you ready to fire both de Blasio and Trump for their incompetence?
 ;)

Enjoy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCzJlhE35YM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCzJlhE35YM)

You obviously didn't watch the real thing, did you? Instead, you prefer to watch what some random dude has to say about the reality.

Here is the full transcript:

Now the Democrats are politicizing the coronavirus, you know that right? Coronavirus, they’re politicizing it. We did one of the great jobs. You say, “How’s President Trump doing?” They go, “Oh, not good, not good.” They have no clue. They don’t have any clue. They can’t even count their votes in Iowa. They can’t even count. No, they can’t. They can’t count their votes.

One of my people came up to me and said, “Mr. President, they tried to beat you on Russia, Russia, Russia.” That didn’t work out too well. They couldn’t do it. They tried the impeachment hoax. That was on a perfect conversation. They tried anything. They tried it over and over. They’d been doing it since you got in. It’s all turning. They lost. It’s all turning. Think of it. Think of it. And this is their new hoax. But we did something that’s been pretty amazing. We have 15 people in this massive country and because of the fact that we went early. We went early, we could have had a lot more than that. We’re doing great. Our country is doing so great.


Our country is doing great, indeed!  Right?

Breaking News: it's a disaster, no matter how you spin it.
Trump's denial (we only have 15 deaths, therefore we must be doing a fantastic job) and his failure to listen to people who warned him that this is is no joking matter (they politicize Corona, their new hoax) is massive leadership failure.

A failure to come up with early testing that could have saved lives, a failure to secure enough protective equipment and medical supplies that could have saved lives.

And there are countless other interviews and press conferences, where he is downplaying the seriousness of the matter. Look them up, look for official transcripts, not for some random dude spinning the reality.

The reality will punch you hard, straight in your face, as it happened even to him:

From "we are doing great because we only have 15 deaths", now he has the audacity to say:
"So you’re talking about 2.2 million deaths, 2.2 million people from this. And so if we could hold that down, as we’re saying, to 100,000. It’s a horrible number, maybe even less —but to 100,000. So we have between 100 and 200,000, and we altogether have done a very good job"

Wake up, man!
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: SpaceStockFootage on April 06, 2020, 09:13
Well there we have it guys and gals... who would have guessed it? All these months and years of division, hostility, confusion, arguments and debate... and finally it's all been solved by a video from a guy named Tim. Well, I guess I was wrong and Trump is actually a great guy. I feel so stupid now, what was I thinking?!
Title: Re: Coronavirus ?
Post by: YadaYadaYada on April 06, 2020, 12:53
Not smart. https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/06/asia/china-coronavirus-tourist-warning-intl-hnk/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/06/asia/china-coronavirus-tourist-warning-intl-hnk/index.html)