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Microstock Photography Forum - General => General Stock Discussion => Topic started by: qunamax on July 03, 2019, 10:50

Title: Deceased model
Post by: qunamax on July 03, 2019, 10:50
How is one supposed to go about in case of deceased model featured in photos in multiple agencies?
I'm thinking both legally, ethically and emotionally as the person in question was very close to me.

My line of thought being that I should send requests to agencies to delete all photos containing a certain model release.

What are your thoughts?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Deceased model
Post by: 50% on July 03, 2019, 11:18
The signed release is valid after the death of a person. Ethically is very personal you can ask the photographer to take down the pictures in question.
Title: Re: Deceased model
Post by: qunamax on July 03, 2019, 11:40
The signed release is valid after the death of a person. Ethically is very personal you can ask the photographer to take down the pictures in question.

Thanks for the answer.
I am the photographer.
Ethically and personally I'm torn between it's kind of morbid to use a photo of a deceased person commercially but on the other hand it might feel as a trace of that person, that what that person did does not stop exist the moment he dies. I'm confused on this matter, that's why I'd like to hear different opinions.
Title: Re: Deceased model
Post by: ShadySue on July 03, 2019, 12:07
Legally you're OK, as stated.
Ethically you are too, probably. If the person knew what they were doing and were happy to be a model and knew all the implications, I don't think there's any ethical issue. Others may disagree.
If you persuaded the person to model and sign, you might feel differently.
If the person was legally incapable and you had the legal right to sign on their behalf, again it's up to you.

If it makes you feel uncomfortable for any reason at all, then for your own emotional well-being, ask for them to be taken down.
Title: Re: Deceased model
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on July 03, 2019, 12:22
Is there anyone who will feel hurt if the images in question are used? A minor child or a spouse? Is there anything about the images that is going to seem truly crass or tasteless in light of the person's death? I'm thinking about a hypothetical such as paragliding images of that model and the model died in a paragliding accident.

If there isn't anything that will hurt the living, can you imagine the deceased person being upset at the thought the images would be used after their death? I have a number of images of me that are used as stock and I can't see any reason why my heirs couldn't continue to license them if they wish to, but not everyone might see it that way.

Given that there's no legal reason to remove the photos, I'd consider the feelings of the living and your guess at the feelings of the deceased model as your guide.
Title: Re: Deceased model
Post by: charged on July 03, 2019, 13:19
A long time ago one of my models and a friend of mine died in a car crash. I thought a lot at the time about removing his stock photos. It did seem a bit weird to continue to have photos up for sale of a person that was now dead. I ultimately did nothing about it and the photos are still online, though I haven't seen any of his particular photos sell in a very very long time. So in the end, it isn't something I think about anymore. And if any of his photos do sell in the future, I'd probably think of it as a some sort of positive tribute to him.

In a way, if I were to die prematurely, I would expect my family to keep all the stock photos I've taken up and keep earning money from them.
Title: Re: Deceased model
Post by: derby on July 03, 2019, 13:57
In a way, if I were to die prematurely, I would expect my family to keep all the stock photos I've taken up and keep earning money from them.

This Is good point.
Thinking about this bad event I wrote down a letter for two of my family related and gave them all necessary informations to gain acces to my photo stock accounts
Title: Re: Deceased model
Post by: trek on July 03, 2019, 14:34
What do you the model would want?  Most artists, musicians, actors and models want their art to survive them.  But everyone is different. 
Title: Re: Deceased model
Post by: qunamax on July 03, 2019, 14:47
Thank you all very much for your kind insights.
Model was like a family, a friend and a longterm boyfriend of my sister. I found a moment in these hard times for her to talk about it as to take action as soon as possible and as he was an artist himself, a photography student and graduated painter, we both went trough a creative process creating those photos, had a lot of fun and good times, me and my sister came to the conclusion that the photos should stay where they are as something he helped create, a memory of good times and something achieved and generally a tribute to this great young man. A creation should live beyond and spread.

I think this is good line of thinking.  We think that he would want that.
Title: Re: Deceased model
Post by: pkphotos on July 03, 2019, 15:15
There are few valid reasons reason why photos of deceased models should be pulled from use.
Title: Re: Deceased model
Post by: SpaceStockFootage on July 03, 2019, 21:21
There are few valid reasons reason why photos of deceased models should be pulled from use.

Don't fancy sharing them?
Title: Re: Deceased model
Post by: MxR on July 04, 2019, 02:04
in my case if the death had been tragic, it was a child .... I would erase it. I would also erase it if it were an amateur model that I did not pay for or paid little. If model is a professional or i paid like a pro,  not do it. We will all die, Arato Andras will die too.
Title: Re: Deceased model
Post by: dcwcreations on July 04, 2019, 06:03
A very close friend of mine who also did stock photography passed last year. we used each other as models and did hundreds of shoots together. We often talked about long after were gone our photos will still be out there somewhere so it's what we left to the worl. Our mark if you will. I think it's an honor and a tribute to leave them on there.
Title: Re: Deceased model
Post by: pixel86 on July 04, 2019, 10:08
A very close friend of mine who also did stock photography passed last year. we used each other as models and did hundreds of shoots together. We often talked about long after were gone our photos will still be out there somewhere so it's what we left to the worl. Our mark if you will. I think it's an honor and a tribute to leave them on there.


I agree with all of that, but don’t forget, you are profiting from someone else’s tragedy. when money is involved, it sometimes changes the thought. Some might see that as wrong, like maybe the family. I don’t necessarily think it’s wrong, especially if you talked about it beforehand.

Title: Re: Deceased model
Post by: disorderly on July 04, 2019, 10:36
A very close friend of mine who also did stock photography passed last year. we used each other as models and did hundreds of shoots together. We often talked about long after were gone our photos will still be out there somewhere so it's what we left to the worl. Our mark if you will. I think it's an honor and a tribute to leave them on there.


...you are profiting from someone else’s tragedy.

I can't agree.  You are profiting from their work, and arguably from their life.  But the tragedy has nothing to do with your work together or any profit you may continue to derive from it.  Unless you somehow benefit from the fact or details of your death, it's no different than enjoying the work of any performer who has died.

Feel however you feel, but you're under no obligation, moral or otherwise, to give up work you paid for because your collaborator is no longer around.
Title: Re: Deceased model
Post by: pixel86 on July 04, 2019, 12:19
A very close friend of mine who also did stock photography passed last year. we used each other as models and did hundreds of shoots together. We often talked about long after were gone our photos will still be out there somewhere so it's what we left to the worl. Our mark if you will. I think it's an honor and a tribute to leave them on there.


...you are profiting from someone else’s tragedy.

I can't agree.  You are profiting from their work, and arguably from their life.  But the tragedy has nothing to do with your work together or any profit you may continue to derive from it.  Unless you somehow benefit from the fact or details of your death, it's no different than enjoying the work of any performer who has died.

Feel however you feel, but you're under no obligation, moral or otherwise, to give up work you paid for because your collaborator is no longer around.


You have pulled out a small piece of my post and now it’s out of context.
Title: Re: Deceased model
Post by: georgep7 on July 04, 2019, 13:42
If money is involved, there is the simple solution to donate related earnings to a novel cause.

Sorry to read that you lost a close person.
Title: Re: Deceased model
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on July 04, 2019, 20:01
A very close friend of mine who also did stock photography passed last year. we used each other as models and did hundreds of shoots together. We often talked about long after were gone our photos will still be out there somewhere so it's what we left to the worl. Our mark if you will. I think it's an honor and a tribute to leave them on there.


...you are profiting from someone else’s tragedy.

I can't agree.  You are profiting from their work, and arguably from their life.  But the tragedy has nothing to do with your work together or any profit you may continue to derive from it.  Unless you somehow benefit from the fact or details of your death, it's no different than enjoying the work of any performer who has died.

Feel however you feel, but you're under no obligation, moral or otherwise, to give up work you paid for because your collaborator is no longer around.


You have pulled out a small piece of my post and now it’s out of context.

No, it had the same meaning in the full passage.  You’re not “profiting from tragedy” at all.
Title: Re: Deceased model
Post by: SpaceStockFootage on July 04, 2019, 20:57
I agree. Nothing before or after it altered the meaning, so it wasn't taken out of context at all. Profiting 'even after the tragedy' might work, but definitely not 'from the tragedy'. 
Title: Re: Deceased model
Post by: pixel86 on July 04, 2019, 21:52
🙄 Whatever you say, boys. Bless your hearts. ;)
Title: Re: Deceased model
Post by: SpaceStockFootage on July 04, 2019, 22:51
So what exactly did you mean when you said they were profiting from their tragedy? If that's not what you meant, then you didn't do the best job of explaining what you actually meant. If you shoot and upload content of somebody who is dead or dying then you're profiting from their tragedy, but in this instance, they're just continuing to profit after an unfortunate tragedy... a tragedy that will happen to every single person who's ever signed a model release. I think that's why myself and others are taking exception to what you've said, as your choice of words give the impression that you think they've specifically aimed to profit from the person's death.

Title: Re: Deceased model
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on July 05, 2019, 07:34
Yep.  There’s no way they are “profiting from their tragedy”.

“Profiting from a tragedy” might be a description of editorial photos of car wreck.  Or promoting images of a model who perhaps died in a newsworthy shooting or something.

Continuing to sell images of someone who just happened to pass is not “profiting from their tragedy “.  At all.
Title: Re: Deceased model
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on July 06, 2019, 02:59
If you've sold RF licenses for pictures of a person then there is no way you can prevent those pictures being used again by the people who bought the license, so the question of whether or not to continue offering to license them becomes a bit irrelevant.
I don't see why it would be seen as tasteless to keep the images on sale. The works of dead artists, film stars and authors continue to be sold and nobody thinks twice about it. And photography is all about capturing the present so people in the future can see and appreciate the past. Why wouldn't a model have wanted to continue being appreciated after death? I wish I'd got more pictures of family members who have died.
Title: Re: Deceased model
Post by: pixel86 on July 06, 2019, 07:02
.
Title: Re: Deceased model
Post by: Dave on July 06, 2019, 18:33
I personally think if this person is not a family member then you should ask their falily for their feelings.
And if you are generating income from those images you should stand by your original contract.
Title: Re: Deceased model
Post by: Pauws99 on July 07, 2019, 04:43
Unless you do happen to know the model, which in this case you do, you will have no idea whether they are still alive the day after you did the shoot. If you do know them its an entirely personal decision. But I don't see a general "moral" issue here.
Title: Re: Deceased model
Post by: Hildegarde on July 07, 2019, 21:01
Ask the family.

Only personal experience is this:

A couple of months ago,  my cat died.  Not an accident-- expected-- cancer.  I cannot look at my photos of him right now because I still miss him so much.  But I am glad I took them and they are there.  I have not taken them down.  I took one photo on his last day.  I adore the photo because it captures his fierce will to live.  The last month was all about balance -- honoring his determination to live while not letting him suffer.  I shared photo with the 2 vets who helped us at end and some friends. I will probably never put it on stock but some day, it will be included in my art portfolio.  I do not mind it if someone buys photos of him-- he was my heart and soul once in a lifetime cat.  The idea of others appreciating his photos, other than that very personal one, would make me happy.  I just would like maybe not to see them a lot as part of my personal life at this point in time.
Title: Re: Deceased model
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on July 08, 2019, 01:59
Ask the family? Who in the family? Spouse? Children? Siblings? Parents? What if they disagree? Should you make the family have a conference and a majority vote about a bloody photo, for gawds sake? I lost someone recently and the last thing I would have wanted when my life was being turned upside down would be to have someone come to ask me whether they should carry on selling photos of the person. Whatever you do, make up your own mind about it and be aware that whatever you do or don't do there's a possibility of upsetting someone.  Which is always a risk when using models. anyway.