Author Topic: How much to charge? (Read 7128 times)

ShadySue · « **on:** May 16, 2010, 14:07 »

Yesterday, i was photographing at my local Cattle Show, mainly for practice though I'll probably send some to Alamy, not that last year's batch have done me any good! A few different people (officials) asked if I was shooting for Scottish Farmer magazine. http://www.thescottishfarmer.co.uk (I guess it was the 5DMk2!).
A farmer asked me particularly to photograph his cow and calf. In fact, I'd noticed them earlier and had taken several photos. At the end of the Champion of Champions round, he held back for a few seconds (the Grand Parade was about to start so it was literally a few seconds). He asked for my card (lucky I've got an iStock Moo card, though a bit irrelevant) and gave me his email addy.
So I processed the photos and shoved them some on my website http://www.lizworld.com/General/CattleShow.html and emailled him. I assumed he might want to buy a couple of prints, and had no idea of how much to charge. (Photographers go out of business within a year or two round about here, whether they charge a little or a lot - can't get enough people willing to pay anything.)
Turns out he's the bloke who writes the report for the Scottish Farmer, and he's emailled them and suggested they use one of my photos of his cattle. (What's the point of writing the report if you can't feature your own winners?!). He's not sure whether or not they'll use a picture, and I guess if they do, my rubric is "... at your usual rate."

He has also asked about gettting prints, and said specifically that he "didn't want big ones" I fobbed him off for a bit - I haven't a clue how much to charge, especially as I'll be submitting to Alamy. In other circs, I could exchange them for MRs for iStock, but I can't imagine there would be any interest on iStock, and anyway most of the pics have other people in the background, or objects which would need PRs.
I could do inkjet prints (I've got an Epson 1400), but thought I'd use Photobox, which I've used about three years ago. An 8x6 costs 37p there +p&p, so I thought £3 + p&p.
I know all you USian photogs wouldn't get out of your bed for under £100, but this is rural Scotland.
TIA
After I wrote the above, I thought that IF Scottish Farmer use one of my photos and IF the fee is good (which is by no means certain; I haven't located any info about fees on their website yet) I should send him the small prints free for the contact.

red · « **Reply #1 on:** May 16, 2010, 14:29 »

Were you taking the photos purely for commercial reasons or just because you enjoyed it? Are you a commercial photographer or a weekend photo artist? Is there the possibility of future assignments and if so, are you ready to take those assignments? Is photography your livelihood or a side venture?

Many will argue that you should not give your work away. But will exposure in this magazine advance your career? If so, is that a good thing for you? Can you ask for a mention in the article, as well as some fee over the costs for the prints (don't just give them to them for free, something I think we all agree on)?

Does the magazine want digital files and will they use them more than once? Will they use them on their website? If you do not supply the photos will they get them from someone else? Is this a throwaway publication that will be looked at by a small number of people and tossed? Has any mention of money been discussed at all? If your price is too high will the photos ever be seen, anywhere?

Do you anticipate a lot of revenue from your stock sites with these shots? In the end you are the only one who knows the possibilities of this particular situation in this particular location so go with your gut or go with your heart. A hard decision but one only you can make.

gostwyck · « **Reply #2 on:** May 16, 2010, 14:52 »

Personally I'd look to trade the images for stock opportunities, if you think that's realistic possibility, and the farmer (and/or his family or staff) would be prepared to sign MR's. Even just access to his property and livestock, particularly during milking operations and the like, could be valuable.

A few prints will cost you next to nothing but will go a long way to open up doors (or 5-bar gates) for you, potentially with a wide farming community. Rural communities are often more open to trade rather than part with cash and can be very generous when doing so. You might get some free food as well!

Good and genuine agriculture shots, whilst maybe not 'stock Gold', could well be good sellers over time and would almost certainly make you many times more money than you could hope to be paid otherwise. They'll be unique too so should have longevity.

I had a similar experience at a building site a couple of years ago. I gave free sets of prints to the builders (they wanted them to show their kids what Daddy did at work) and who were happy to sign MR's. It has proved to be the best photographic investment I ever made.

Microbius · « **Reply #3 on:** May 16, 2010, 15:04 »

^^^ sounds like a really good idea. There's bound to be some good photo ops round the farm esp. if you can negotiate model releases of people at work. Everyone wins.

madelaide · « **Reply #4 on:** May 16, 2010, 15:05 »

I've sold 7x5in prints for £8+p&p. Or, if your image sells at the magazine, give him the prints for free, that would be nice.

Just a remark: handing out a IS card may give the expectation that you will sell images cheap, and I believe this is not the case for a magazine.

ShadySue · « **Reply #5 on:** May 16, 2010, 15:13 »

Quote from: madelaide on May 16, 2010, 15:05

I've sold 7x5in prints for £8+p&p. Or, if your image sells at the magazine, give him the prints for free, that would be nice.

Just a remark: handing out a IS card may give the expectation that you will sell images cheap, and I believe this is not the case for a magazine.

Yup, it's the only card I have (must think about that!) and as the pics would never be iStockable it wasn't relevant, but it passed over my phone no and email addy more neatly than scribbling on a piece of paper.

Does anyone know where there's a good MR for editorial shots? I've asked this before and didn't get an answer, other than 'you don't need them', and googling 'Model release for editorial' just gives the same information.

WarrenPrice · « **Reply #6 on:** May 16, 2010, 17:44 »

Have you tried any of the estimators ... association guidelines, etc?
http://photographersindex.com/stockprice.htm

Also, ASMP (American Society of Media Photographers) website might offer some help.

As for pricing event photography, I tried the SmugMug trial but decided I couldn't make enough at local events to pay for the professional version.

ShadySue · « **Reply #7 on:** May 16, 2010, 18:30 »

Quote from: WarrenPrice on May 16, 2010, 17:44

Have you tried any of the estimators ... association guidelines, etc?
http://photographersindex.com/stockprice.htm

Also, ASMP (American Society of Media Photographers) website might offer some help.

As for pricing event photography, I tried the SmugMug trial but decided I couldn't make enough at local events to pay for the professional version.

I wasn't asking for what I should charge the magazine, should they even want to use one of my pics - I'm guessing as a reputable mag, they'll have a set payrate. And it will almost certainly be printed small on the page. (What goes in America isn't what happens here. LOL)

I've read the replies with great interest - not the responses I was expecting, and gives me plenty of food for thought. This particular farmer lives over an hour's drive away, not somewhere I could just drop into.

Ironically, a couple of months ago, I was approached via a work colleague to to some photography for a much more local farmer who breeds Highland cattle - he particularly wanted me to be there for the calves being born. I didn't even begin negotiations, because none of my Highland Cattle pics sell on either iStock or Alamy, so I guessed there wasn't much market for them (not just my pics, but there aren't many sales on iStock at all for Highland cattle, except for one absolutely classic in front of Buachaille Etive Mor). And that would have put me in the position of having to haggle over time and price for prints - which is really what my query here was about.

I

OM · « **Reply #8 on:** May 16, 2010, 18:51 »

Quote from: ShadySue on May 16, 2010, 14:07

Yesterday, i was photographing at my local Cattle Show, mainly for practice though I'll probably send some to Alamy, not that last year's batch have done me any good! A few different people (officials) asked if I was shooting for Scottish Farmer magazine. http://www.thescottishfarmer.co.uk (I guess it was the 5DMk2!).
A farmer asked me particularly to photograph his cow and calf. In fact, I'd noticed them earlier and had taken several photos. At the end of the Champion of Champions round, he held back for a few seconds (the Grand Parade was about to start so it was literally a few seconds). He asked for my card (lucky I've got an iStock Moo card, though a bit irrelevant) and gave me his email addy.
So I processed the photos and shoved them some on my website http://www.lizworld.com/General/CattleShow.html and emailled him. I assumed he might want to buy a couple of prints, and had no idea of how much to charge. (Photographers go out of business within a year or two round about here, whether they charge a little or a lot - can't get enough people willing to pay anything.)
Turns out he's the bloke who writes the report for the Scottish Farmer, and he's emailled them and suggested they use one of my photos of his cattle. (What's the point of writing the report if you can't feature your own winners?!). He's not sure whether or not they'll use a picture, and I guess if they do, my rubric is "... at your usual rate."

He has also asked about gettting prints, and said specifically that he "didn't want big ones" I fobbed him off for a bit - I haven't a clue how much to charge, especially as I'll be submitting to Alamy. In other circs, I could exchange them for MRs for iStock, but I can't imagine there would be any interest on iStock, and anyway most of the pics have other people in the background, or objects which would need PRs.
I could do inkjet prints (I've got an Epson 1400), but thought I'd use Photobox, which I've used about three years ago. An 8x6 costs 37p there +p&p, so I thought £3 + p&p.
I know all you USian photogs wouldn't get out of your bed for under £100, but this is rural Scotland.
TIA
After I wrote the above, I thought that IF Scottish Farmer use one of my photos and IF the fee is good (which is by no means certain; I haven't located any info about fees on their website yet) I should send him the small prints free for the contact.

If you do 'sell' a photo to Scottish Farmer, I'd be aware of this............they sell their photo's on:

http://thescottishfarmer.newsprints.co.uk/prices/db/0/0

Phil · « **Reply #9 on:** May 16, 2010, 20:23 »

without knowing the dynamics of where you live, my temptation would be to charge the magazine as you said at their 'normal rates' - I'd want to be paid but not over the top so that hopefully they may come back to you if their is other work in the area.

for the farmer if it was me and here I'd print one or two 8x10's / 10x12's (whatever my photo shop was doing a special on

but basically large enough for him to frame and give them to him (I'd chat about a property release). If it is like here it is a small town and most of the properties are owned by half a dozen families - 'the old money' - here at least they are influential with the local businesses and organisations. I wouldnt be expecting a lot of come of it but take the view of building groundwork.

ShadySue · « **Reply #10 on:** May 17, 2010, 02:15 »

Quote from: OM on May 16, 2010, 18:51

If you do 'sell' a photo to Scottish Farmer, I'd be aware of this............they sell their photo's on:

http://thescottishfarmer.newsprints.co.uk/prices/db/0/0

Thanks for that. That is standard practice with local papers round about here if the photo has been taken by one of their 'regulars' and it's probably the deal if staffers take the photo for SF. If they want this photo, I won't allow selling on, and besides, who would want the photo apart from the farmer himself? However, it's an interesting guide to print prices.

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Author Topic: How much to charge? (Read 7128 times)

ShadySue

red

gostwyck

Microbius

madelaide

ShadySue

WarrenPrice

ShadySue

OM

Phil

ShadySue

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