MicrostockGroup Sponsors


Author Topic: do we need to be "Enterprises" to sell microstock (Spanish citizen)  (Read 5300 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

« on: June 29, 2009, 05:26 »
0
ENGLISH:
Hello:
Today i went to the IRS just to ask out of curiosity how would i declare my microstock incomes in the end of the year. Well, obviusly they were not put to day in this bussines, but they seem to think i have to be registered as an economic activity or enterprise as any other activity that makes me win money, here in Spain it means also to pay about 350$ monthly for the social security. Is this correct, i cant believe it. These agencies advertise them selves as anyone can upload and sell images as a particular.


SPANISH:
Hola:
Espero que haya por aqu algn espaol que est informado al respecto, porque en Hacienda me dijeron que debera darme de alta como una actividad empresarial, lo que supone en mi caso darme de alta como autonomo y pagar la seguridad social, unos 250 al mes. No me lo uedo creer, yo intent explicarles que no vendo directamente a ningn cliente, y que no tengo que hacer factura alguna pero por supuesto no estn muy enterados al respecto. Alguin me puede informar y dar datos o fuentes concretas para demostrar (espero) que no es necesario darse de alta y que se puede hacer como particular.

Thank you


« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2009, 05:49 »
0
Today i went to the IRS just to ask out of curiosity how would i declare my microstock incomes in the end of the year. Well, obviusly they were not put to day in this bussines, but they seem to think i have to be registered as an economic activity or enterprise as any other activity that makes me win money, here in Spain it means also to pay about 350$ monthly for the social security. Is this correct, i cant believe it. These agencies advertise them selves as anyone can upload and sell images as a particular.

Soooo...? Yes, anyone can upload. Anyone can earn money. And anyone has to pay taxes on the money earned. If you make money, as a matter of fact you are making business. No matter how much you make from it or how much your revenue is, it's a self-employed business.

Well, and the USA says if your country has not signed a tax treaty with us, on income earned in the US you have to pay your taxes in the US (now you can argue how much of the income was actually earned in the US, of course...). If you country has signed a tax treaty (which I assume for Spain), you will have to do whatever is agreed in that treaty. In the end, if that is more difficult for you in Spain than for other countries, wouldn't it be your government that needs to be "blamed"? Because it should be in their interest to make tax money from their citizens rather than leaving it paid to some other country.

But somehow I doubt that you have figured it all out yet. I can't believe that Spain doesn't have any local legislation allowing for small/part-time businesses that don't require a full registration with social security etc. But I can't tell you, maybe it would be the right time to ask a local accountant/tax advisor.

« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2009, 06:04 »
0
Well, this is obviously something very different from one country to other, but what i was trying to ask is if everyone in this industry is a "company" or "enterpise" as it would be if you sell photos in a local in your street. Because thats what they told me in the IRS.
I cant translate the terminology used here  but guess the right is what you use, self-employed business (autonomo), wich means i HAVE to pay the SOCIAL SECURITY fee stated above.
I know many people here do this as a hobby, so i seriusly doubt everybody is doing this.
I of course want to pay my taxes, thats why i went to ask how i could declare my incomes from this. Whay i didnt think was that i needed to becoma an self-employed company, i thought one as particular couls just declare the income and pay proportionally.
It would very helpfull for me to her from other Spanish citizens.

« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2009, 07:34 »
0
Theres no need to be a company. Thats just bull...    But if youre making serious money its always the best thing. 
( taxdeduction for equipment etc )

« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2009, 07:57 »
0
First off all, Im not making serious money, i somehow making a decent salary a month.
I just wanted to know how could i declare this income, and so i asked the IRS equivalent here (Hacienda) and they told me that i needed to be registered as an economic activity, and so on.

 
Theres no need to be a company. Thats just bull...    But if youre making serious money its always the best thing. 
( taxdeduction for equipment etc )

Again this is country dependent, but please, explain to me how do you declare or justify this earnings.

« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2009, 08:06 »
0
Try the Irs again and im sure youll get another answer.     If you ask Swedish IRS they start talking about selling mushrooms  ???   Theyre not used to selling on the internet worldwide.

« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2009, 08:13 »
0
Try the Irs again and im sure youll get another answer.

I don't think the IRS (I assume you are talking about the US one) is going to be the right entitiy to ask. Ask your local tax office, an accountant or tax advisor. They are more interested in helping you...

« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2009, 08:42 »
0
Try the Irs again and im sure youll get another answer.

I don't think the IRS (I assume you are talking about the US one) is going to be the right entitiy to ask. Ask your local tax office, an accountant or tax advisor. They are more interested in helping you...

Thats what he did    "so i asked the IRS equivalent here (Hacienda)"

« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2009, 09:03 »
0
I asked in Hacienda, what i suposse is the equivalent to the IRS.
Anyway, Hacienda is the statal entity where you have to pay your taxes and VAT, if you are a particular cityzen you just have to make a yearly declaration (you are only obligated to do it when you earn more than X money a year), if you are an enterprise you are obligated to make a declaration and pay the VAT and taxes each 3 months, acordingly with what you have billed in that period.
What i dont understand is why would we have to do this if we dont make any bill.
So my initial thought was i would have to declare this once a year as any citizen

« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2009, 19:03 »
0
I don't think I need to register a business here in Brazil, unless I am doing something wrong, and so are other people I know.  There may be advantages in registering a business, like discounting expenses and even paying less taxes. 

In our annual tax report, there is a form to fill in with foreign earnings, converted to our money, and the total counts for tax adjustment calculations.  There is no need to inform where this money comes from (what is odd, as even earnings as a shareholder need to be declared in detail).  I believe there would be a different rule if microstock was my main income.

« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2009, 18:50 »
0
Thats what i thought i should do also, somo kind of declaration in the anual tax report, as this is my first year in micro i was quite confident i dont need to do anithing untill then, but now i think that roght way to register as a bussines, not as a choice aor advantage, but as an obligation, as we are making an activity that earns us money as any other. So if i dont register as bussines i can not declare this earnings.
Im still shocked by this :-[

« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2009, 20:00 »
0
Can't you be simply self-employed in Spain?

« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2009, 09:03 »
0
Yeah, self employed, thats what i mean, in order to be self-employed (autonomo) i need to pay a monthly fee of around 250 (350 U$) to the social security.
My point is not even my particular situation, (because i am allready self employed) i do freelance job as CG architectural visualizatior. My point is that theres no room in this bussines to particualr people who just want to sell some of their photos (exactly what these pages avdertise) and exactly what i thought more of the people here or in other forums are. I really doubt everybody in this bussines is in this situation, so my big surprise.
Its hard to try explain this in foreign lenguage.

« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2009, 09:28 »
0
Yeah, self employed, thats what i mean, in order to be self-employed (autonomo) i need to pay a monthly fee of around 250 (350 U$) to the social security.
My point is not even my particular situation, (because i am allready self employed) i do freelance job as CG architectural visualizatior. My point is that theres no room in this bussines to particualr people who just want to sell some of their photos (exactly what these pages avdertise) and exactly what i thought more of the people here or in other forums are. I really doubt everybody in this bussines is in this situation, so my big surprise.
Its hard to try explain this in foreign lenguage.

Do you mean you pay tax in advance? (250)     I do that based on last years tax.  If I earn less I get the extra tax back.   

Many people starting a company get scared when they notice they have to pay in advance. ( Its alway best to tell IRS you probably earn zero first year)  .

Or is it some special fee just for your country you need to pay??? It seems weird, cause it all depends how much you earn.

« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2009, 09:46 »
0
Magnum:
No is not like that.
That is a monthly fee you pay for been self employed to the social security (that is the service that give us the right to medical ensurance or for our future retirement plan) its something olbigatory to pay when you are in any kind of econimic activity. Apart from that is the taxes that of course you will also have to pay in relation to your earnings.
Lets put an example of someone who has a day job, he is employed by "X" company, so he is allready paying that monthly fee that is automatically deducted from the payroll and also partially paid by the employer, but if he want to sell photos in microstock at his spare time, then he would need to start a parallel selfemployed activity for this, thus having to pay and extra monthly fee of 350U$. (as counterpart for this, i guess in the future he would have a higher retirment plan)

« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2009, 10:01 »
0
I see your problem now.  In my case, I already pay the top contribution for social security in my main job, so this is not an issue.  Anyway, here the payment is proportional to the earnings, and I am almost 100% sure there is no minimum value; if there is, it is certainly not as high. 

A self-employed person can choose the base value for the contribution calculation, but this limits the future benefits (retirement, insurance, etc).  Only medical assistance isn't affected.

« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2009, 10:19 »
0
Madelaide:
Yes thats the minumum here, of course you can also pay more.
Guess thats another reason why i should be living in beutyful Brasil instead of here  :D


« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2009, 03:09 »
0
I apologize if I read your first postings wrong. It seems I was a bit off track by assumptions that any "reasonable" country in the western hemisphere has more or less similar rules.

I have now tried to get some information about the situation in Spain and from all what I have seen in the internet, it appears that Spain actually is the country in Western Europe making it the hardest to become a self-employed person, especially if you try to do it as a secondary income.

I hope you will find some fellow Spanish microstocker who has gone through all this. Or you can find a local tax advisor who can give you some other solution.

« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2009, 03:32 »
0
it appears that Spain actually is the country in Western Europe making it the hardest to become a self-employed person, especially if you try to do it as a secondary income.

Did you consider Italy in your research? :)

« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2009, 03:37 »
0
Hi arquiplay77,

I am from Italy and, as far as I know, the laws of our countries are pretty similar.
Here, when you start a part-time job or secondary business, you can decide how to manage the Social Insurance/Pension Scheme, meaning that you can pay it double (once for each activity) OR pay it only for your main job.
I cannot confirm but, perhaps also in Spain it is possible something similar. Try to ask to a private tax specialist or business consultant.

bye.

« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2009, 03:47 »
0
Hi arquiplay77,
I'm not sure but I think there is a sort of threshold: if you earn more than X in a year you must declarate those earnings and pay taxes. This is simple to distinguish amateurs from pros.

maybe better in spanish :)

Hola, no estoy seguro pero creo que hay un limite de dinero por ao que puedes no declarar. Arriba de este limite hay que declararlo todo y pagar los impuestos: los 250 mensuales los pueden pagar solo quien gana mucho mas de 250 mensuales :) La pregunta es... cual es este limite?
Esperando que sea as,
Saludos

« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2009, 13:25 »
0
Hi All,

Here is the U.S. even a sole proprietor is leaving themselves very exposed to a law suit that can take their personal property as well as business investments if one of your images causes such a result. Location or model release, etc issues. If you incorporate you remove your own personal belongings from your companies holdings. So if someone sues you they can only go after your business not your personal home or car or any other personal assets you might have. You should all register yourselves as businesses that is what you are and you have to pay your taxes. They are cracking down on this massive loss in revenue that is taking place in our industry. I know personally, I have been audited by everyone and their mother. A lot of paper work but always treat the IRS with friendliness and teamwork approach. They can be very reasonable about payment structuring if you owe them money and the easier going and open you are the better your results will be.

Best,
Jonathan

« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2009, 16:37 »
0
Guess thats another reason why i should be living in beutyful Brasil instead of here  :D

You would be shocked by the way your tax money is spent!   ;D


 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
22 Replies
8387 Views
Last post January 15, 2008, 19:38
by madelaide
30 Replies
12357 Views
Last post September 30, 2008, 01:03
by RacePhoto
50 Replies
9627 Views
Last post April 02, 2016, 11:41
by Dumc
7 Replies
2815 Views
Last post June 05, 2018, 05:31
by Brasilnut
2 Replies
954 Views
Last post September 28, 2018, 09:25
by steheap

Sponsors

Microstock Poll Results