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Microstock Photography Forum - General => General Stock Discussion => Topic started by: Semmick Photo on June 19, 2015, 13:45
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Lately SS and Canva are absent from the forum, when they were the most regular ones to communicate here. Most agencies had a rep here communicating with us. It all seems to have dried up.
Do yo think the tough MSG community has driven away Agency reps?
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Lately SS and Canva are absent from the forum, when they were the most regular ones to communicate here. Most agencies had a rep here communicating with us. It all seems to have dried up.
Do yo think the tough MSG community has driven away Agency reps?
The investors/VC's in the agency's might have instituted new policies that might restrict reps from participating or saying much, same goes for social media, seen that happen in news, one day a new vp of social media came along and all tweets had to be vetted by her.....
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I think SS is instituting cost cutting measures to please investors, and the contributor rep job was eliminated. certainly in the case of SS I think the people here were glad to hear from them and communicated respectfully. Canva I know nothing about.
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Scottbraut was great, maybe whoever followed him simply doesn“t like msg?? Or doesn“t understand the importance of this forum?
It is strange, because here in Germany they are investing in contributor meet ups etc...you would expect them to have a strong personality and voice on msg to represent them.
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Yes many many posts are just "not good" and make "less sense".
Most times i see the same people posting again and again the same **** (things).
New, small agencies are made down immediately.
People sell fewer than 300 pictures and complain about things that.. you know what iam talking about..
One day they hate SS or FT whatever one day they love it!
One day they sell less and get angry about. Next day they love the agency again..
:o
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New, small agencies are made down immediately.
If they can't cope with the basic questions which are asked here, they're either not serious, haven't done their job, or - at very best - aren't nearly ready to launch. More likely: scam merchants.
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I think SS is instituting cost cutting measures to please investors, and the contributor rep job was eliminated. certainly in the case of SS I think the people here were glad to hear from them and communicated respectfully. Canva I know nothing about.
I agree with this totally. It's already started with current package restructuring. But with the Adobe deal, I bet exclusivity is in the near future.
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Speaking of reps, I was kind of impressed with Mat Hayward. Some people ripped him up and down when he was just representing Fotolia (rightly or wrongly). Once the Adobe deal was announced, he came in here, announced it, and politely answered all questions posed directly to him, and ignored things that weren't an actual respectful question. I think that is how most reps should react. I think everyone knows by now, reps, contributors AND buyers to MSG know that you are going to have to wade through some cr*p to get to the good stuff. Comes with the forum territory. :)
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Speaking of reps, I was kind of impressed with Mat Hayward. Some people ripped him up and down when he was just representing Fotolia (rightly or wrongly). Once the Adobe deal was announced, he came in here, announced it, and politely answered all questions posed directly to him, and ignored things that weren't an actual respectful question. I think that is how most reps should react. I think everyone knows by now, reps, contributors AND buyers to MSG know that you are going to have to wade through some cr*p to get to the good stuff. Comes with the forum territory. :)
Moreover, a couple of months ago, I received a private, personalized email from Mat in reference to my port. No other agency bothered to contact me, personally!
This definitely signals a change in FT/AS behaviour towards contributors.
Something to be praised and encouraged!
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Absolutely, Mat is doing a great job!
Good communication is so important to build trust in business.
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Of course we have scared off some agency reps. Who wants to be on here getting ripped up and down as the face for the corporate entity that is screwing us? Of course they mostly can't take it (or have no incentive to anyway).
In general I think that reps that are honest and somewhat open are an asset to MSG and the agencies they represent. That doesn't mean we have to agree with or like what they say, but it is nice to hear from their side when they are honest. Of course there has been plenty of double speak and outright lies too, and the reps need to know we will call them on that. Sometimes the best answer is "I hear your question and I can't (or won't) answer that" - at least it is honest.
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What I find the most annoying/incredible is that Agency reps most definitely read MSG but choose not to reply to concrete questions we had. :-\
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I agree with Mat's professionalism, Scott was good too, Lee did a good job, P5 came in here shortly with a good attitude. 123s Alex and Anglee also do a good job, but dont come in often.
If you have a contributor communication role within an agency, I think its important to spent time communicating with us. We are a very important cog in the wheel. We're undercut and ignored in most cases. I wish there was a real business relationship, alienation has been going on for a while. I understand our bitterness towards the agencies, good communication would go a long way in this situation. I wish more reps came in here to explain things to us when we have concerns. Biggest is the deafening silence around the review process in SS.
Are we too harsh on reps, I think Pancaketom has a good point.
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If it's a "concrete" question isn't it better to ask at the agency via their support channels or their forums? Are we (long-time forum members) really that important and/or influential? Newcomers don't know about us or do not take our advice. Those with really big ports don't post often here, if at all. Many members are anonymous and just complain. If we boycott something it is only short-lived. The industry has evolved and I don't think that this forum changes the habits of many stock image producers. Yes, I know that some questions are ignored at the sites or it takes a long time to get an answer. Many site admins will answer or point to a previous answer if the issue has been addressed, some will close the forum question if they don't like it, some will ignore the question and yes, some will ban the asker. Same here. Why do you think that this forum is more important than their own contributors' forums? If a problem is brought to light here it may or may not be communicated to the thousands of other photogs and illustrators and video producers out there. Do you want the reps to check the questions here every day instead of at their own sites? Kudos to those who do. Just askin'?
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The sites never hesitate to communicate with us here and on their own sites if they want something from us.
Before IS exclusives started defecting we never heard from Shutterstock on MSG and they have been non responsive on their own boards for many years. From a business stand point, it made good sense to communicate with potential exclusive defectors who visit MSG; because many of them have large ports filled with images that made it through IS's formerly tough reviews. The potential is there to also skip review expenses for those ports. Those initially lower royalty ports, also make SS more money.
I recall more than a few threads on SS proper asking why they communicated with participants here and refused to communicate with us on their own site. Strangely enough we never got so much as a response from shutterstock on the matter of their lack of response to our needs or their blatant lack of communication in general.
Scott was smart enough to realize the financial benefit of communicating with potential new contributors on MSG , however communication seems to be non existent since his departure.
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I think agency reps need to be very commited to working with the artist community, maybe be artists themselves to understand how the production works. They also have to be very patient and good communicators. It is not easy to find people with the right combination of skills who are ready to do this kind of job.
I hope SS finds a dedicated replacement for Scott, who comes here and works with us. They are one of the biggest agencies after all, I doubt they will just give up on contributor relation building.
Maybe it will take a while to find someone, but I am sure they will send someone back in (into the ring :) ).
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Re: Maybe it will take a while to find someone, but I am sure they will send someone back in (into the ring :) ).
Reality is based on actions rather than wishful thinking. Shutterstock's actions are clear and consistent over the last 9 years. They have not communicated with contributors in a meaningful or productive way since roughly 2006.
In fact there have been a myriad of problems on shutterstock's site that affected the bottom line for contributors and shutterstock has consistently failed to address these problems. In fact they fall on deaf ears or shutterstock simply pretends they do not exist.
When contributors sought help on shutterstocks own boards they simply did not respond to our request for help, solutions, clarification, etc. You have only to visit the bugs, critique, general discussion or anything goes forum, to see this non communication or problem solving in consistent action.
For what amounts to a nano second in practical terms, Scott came to MSG (Not Shutterstock) to manage Public Relations. Instead of addressing the issues we repeatedly asked him to solve or clarify; he responded with PR double speak. To be fair to Scott, I doubt that he had any other options and it would be painful to address contributors with your hands tied and no power or resources to help them.
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As selling stock is a numbers game and today we're talking about agencies having archives made of 50+ millions images, why would they need to please a few stockers on a niche online forum ?
I dont see any positive ROI on that for the top agencies, it only makes sense for the small fries and the newcomers to come here and to get some free exposure for their products.
Market leaders like SS just don't need us anymore, they're well past the initial phase when they were dependant on the good will of the top uploaders .. now contributors are dime a dozen, including the top sellers, we've just no leverage now.
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Maybe Leaf could have an agency announcement section on the forum where only verified reps could post announcements and keep us updated, then we could discuss the announcement on another thread amongst ourselves.
The problem is that if someone comes on here defending misinformation or announcing a sh*fting for us of course they are going to take a battering and of course they wont want to come back to have their company's oh so dirty laundry aired in public.
We also, like anywhere on the internet, have our fair share of total loons that attack anyone that comes here, but I don't think should drive away a legit agent in itself, if the overwhelming feedback is positive.
Think about how nicely Lee from Canva and Brian from Veer were treated here. I don't think that Lee would have left because of the criticism he received, which was extremely measured and polite actually.
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As selling stock is a numbers game and today we're talking about agencies having archives made of 50+ millions images, why would they need to please a few stockers on a niche online forum ?
I dont see any positive ROI on that for the top agencies, it only makes sense for the small fries and the newcomers to come here and to get some free exposure for their products.
Market leaders like SS just don't need us anymore, they're well past the initial phase when they were dependant on the good will of the top uploaders .. now contributors are dime a dozen, including the top sellers, we've just no leverage now.
SOOO true, sad and scary! :-\
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To be honest, who'd want to be an agency rep, having to put a spin on all the schemes of their employers, being 'economical with the truth', not necessarily knowing what's being planned 'at the top', and pretending that everything is for our benefit, so we needn't worry. On the sites' own forums, people who ask too many awkward questions can be banned or worse. Here all they can do is ignore them, give some bland reassurances, lie, or obfuscate the issue. I'd rather hear nothing than any of that £$%*!
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yes...because we often kick their butts 8)
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For a long time now, the trend in corporate communications has been to say less and less in public, and to respond to questions by simply repeating previous statements while saying nothing of substance. I think eliminating the role of these reps was just the next logical step. There is really no need for these agencies to communicate with photographers at all; we're not their customers.
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For a long time now, the trend in corporate communications has been to say less and less in public, and to respond to questions by simply repeating previous statements while saying nothing of substance. I think eliminating the role of these reps was just the next logical step. There is really no need for these agencies to communicate with photographers at all; we're not their customers.
Until the day comes we all have enough and walk. Then the CEOs and the like will come begging.
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For a long time now, the trend in corporate communications has been to say less and less in public, and to respond to questions by simply repeating previous statements while saying nothing of substance. I think eliminating the role of these reps was just the next logical step. There is really no need for these agencies to communicate with photographers at all; we're not their customers.
Until the day comes we all have enough and walk. Then the CEOs and the like will come begging.
I hope so, but wonder if they would have the common sense to do it.
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Maybe Leaf can help here? Why they don't participate?
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I can remember the day Serban had enough and said he would never come participate here again. Can't remember why exactly, but that he was attacked and I was a little disgusted with our behaviour.
I have been contacted directly by agency reps after I've posted a problem or question here. A few private PM's (most recently Grant from Veer) and once even received a phone call from Canstock offering to help with an issue.
I am pretty sure even if you don't think they stop by, they all lurk.
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I hope so, but wonder if they would have the common sense to do it.
hmm .. i don't remember having ever read a CEO interview where they admit being wrong about their marketing strategy, one way or another they always blame someone else or even their own customers ...
nobody is actually selling what buyers really want, it's always a compromise between price and quality, greed is also a major factor ..
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I can remember the day Serban had enough and said he would never come participate here again. Can't remember why exactly, but that he was attacked and I was a little disgusted with our behaviour.
That's very unprofessional, and if their job includes posting on forums and socials they better learn how to deal with their own user base or find another career.
I had to listen to the most ridicolous BS and trash and even a few insults when i was working in retail, face to face, i've never lost my frame and neither my colleagues or we would have been fired on the spot ...
I don't know why for so many it's so hard to deal with people online and with their complaints, i guess some of them are just plain jerks and they're even more jerks in real life ?
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I don't think there is a single big reason why there is or isn't more agency reps here.
Matt is doing a great job for Fotolia right now and it's easy to see it is a lot of work. Envato has a ton of people registered on the forum but they haven't been too active recently. If they launch something new or make changes, they are generally around with very capable people answering questions. Lee was working with Canva full time last year, and doing a super job answering questions here, but has now moved back to Argentina and I'm not sure how involved he is with Canva at the moment. Scott was very active here but he moved on to another job and the person who took over his job hasn't had the same drive to make a presence here. Brian from Veer was another rep that was very helpful here but moved onto another job... and let's not forget LuckyOliver :) ... they also moved onto other things. I think the majority of agency reps have simply moved onto other things with no-one to replace them. Oh, and Marius from DepositPhotos is another one that changed jobs... but was here and did a great job while he worked for them.
Being an agency rep is a tough job and not everyone is cut out for it. They need to take critique (and attacks) lightly while considering what is (actually) being said - or what the true problem is and try responding to it. Not everyone is capable of responding to the negative posts in a polite way that isn't an attack back.
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Not everyone is capable of responding to the negative posts in a polite way that isn't an attack back.
it's all a matter of having a healthy "I don't give a F k" attitude ...
in general, people attacking back tend to be insecure, lack of self esteem, and full of other personal issues.
they don't realize if they played their cards well nobody would start calling names or personal attacks in the first place !
it's full of hot blooded people out there, just learn how to deal with them, all you need is practice and empathy.
of course customers are rightfully angry when they buy a product or service that turns out to be a ripoff, but all you need is the right attitude and you can manage any possible unpleasant situation, after a few months in sales or customer care you will hear it all 24x7 and won't even think too much about it, it will come natural ..
if that matter, i see similar unprofessionalism also in stock agencies' newsletters and blog posts, must of that stuff is clearly not written by professionals and left to the good will of a random employee .. it usually backfires because it gives the impression their company can't even hire someone good enough to communicate properly and effectively, this is even more sad if we talk about companies like getty or corbis who are worth billions .. same sh-it even in many other multinationals ..
unfortunately very very few companies care about these little things that make a big difference, they've no idea how many customers they lost because of that, iStock being a textbook case in the art of shooting themselves in the as-s.
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Not everyone is capable of responding to the negative posts in a polite way that isn't an attack back.
if that matter, i see similar unprofessionalism also in stock agencies' newsletters and blog posts, must of that stuff is clearly not written by professionals and left to the good will of a random employee .. it usually backfires because it gives the impression their company can't even hire someone good enough to communicate properly and effectively, this is even more sad if we talk about companies like getty or corbis who are worth billions .. same sh-it even in many other multinationals ..
Soooo true and so disrespectful...slap onto our face who helped them grow!
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I don't think there is a single big reason why there is or isn't more agency reps here.
Matt is doing a great job for Fotolia right now and it's easy to see it is a lot of work. Envato has a ton of people registered on the forum but they haven't been too active recently. If they launch something new or make changes, they are generally around with very capable people answering questions. Lee was working with Canva full time last year, and doing a super job answering questions here, but has now moved back to Argentina and I'm not sure how involved he is with Canva at the moment. Scott was very active here but he moved on to another job and the person who took over his job hasn't had the same drive to make a presence here. Brian from Veer was another rep that was very helpful here but moved onto another job... and let's not forget LuckyOliver :) ... they also moved onto other things. I think the majority of agency reps have simply moved onto other things with no-one to replace them. Oh, and Marius from DepositPhotos is another one that changed jobs... but was here and did a great job while he worked for them.
Being an agency rep is a tough job and not everyone is cut out for it. They need to take critique (and attacks) lightly while considering what is (actually) being said - or what the true problem is and try responding to it. Not everyone is capable of responding to the negative posts in a polite way that isn't an attack back.
Interesting that so many have moved on.
Wonder how many of them hated being spin doctors and were unhappy with the way their companies were going.
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Oh, it would have been nice if Lee had let us know. I was a little worried.
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I can remember the day Serban had enough and said he would never come participate here again. Can't remember why exactly, but that he was attacked and I was a little disgusted with our behaviour.
That's very unprofessional, and if their job includes posting on forums and socials they better learn how to deal with their own user base or find another career.
I had to listen to the most ridicolous BS and trash and even a few insults when i was working in retail, face to face, i've never lost my frame and neither my colleagues or we would have been fired on the spot ...
I don't know why for so many it's so hard to deal with people online and with their complaints, i guess some of them are just plain jerks and they're even more jerks in real life ?
But when you are publicly made fun of for your ponytail and openly hated for the country you are from it is a bit much wouldn't you say? That wasn't the time he left, but I seem to recall that same photographer was pushing the buttons.
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I can remember the day Serban had enough and said he would never come participate here again. Can't remember why exactly, but that he was attacked and I was a little disgusted with our behaviour.
That's very unprofessional, and if their job includes posting on forums and socials they better learn how to deal with their own user base or find another career.
I had to listen to the most ridicolous BS and trash and even a few insults when i was working in retail, face to face, i've never lost my frame and neither my colleagues or we would have been fired on the spot ...
I don't know why for so many it's so hard to deal with people online and with their complaints, i guess some of them are just plain jerks and they're even more jerks in real life ?
But when you are publicly made fun of for your ponytail and openly hated for the country you are from it is a bit much wouldn't you say? That wasn't the time he left, but I seem to recall that same photographer was pushing the buttons.
Posts like that are highly unacceptable here. Yes they happen, and the guilty users are banned but it's pretty hard to control it from ever happening.
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And we appreciate it! I think it was your summer hiatus and a bunch of us guilted him into deleting his original post. The dude did get banned eventually though. A Cannon guy with a Sigma Bigma. Haha, can't remember his name but his gear, I am not normal am I?
The Internet really brings out personality extremes. The anonymity can really bring out the worst in people. But then, look how sweet we all are on facebook also!
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I can remember the day Serban had enough and said he would never come participate here again. Can't remember why exactly, but that he was attacked and I was a little disgusted with our behaviour.
That's very unprofessional, and if their job includes posting on forums and socials they better learn how to deal with their own user base or find another career.
I had to listen to the most ridicolous BS and trash and even a few insults when i was working in retail, face to face, i've never lost my frame and neither my colleagues or we would have been fired on the spot ...
I don't know why for so many it's so hard to deal with people online and with their complaints, i guess some of them are just plain jerks and they're even more jerks in real life ?
Serban was not simply the agency rep. He owns Dreamstime. It was not his job to come here and answer questions. He did it as a courtesy, and it was appreciated by many but just not the loudest ones. When you own your own company you don't have to make contributor relations your job. You can hire it out or leave it altogether. I don't see that it is unprofessional for a CEO to decide they don't want to put themself out there to be attacked.
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Serban was not simply the agency rep. He owns Dreamstime. It was not his job to come here and answer questions. He did it as a courtesy, and it was appreciated by many but just not the loudest ones. When you own your own company you don't have to make contributor relations your job. You can hire it out or leave it altogether. I don't see that it is unprofessional for a CEO to decide they don't want to put themself out there to be attacked.
in my experience CEOs are disastrous at answering to complaints in public forums/blogs/socials .. these guys are used to give orders and to manage teams, it's not in their nature to deal peacefully with sneaky attacks from anonymous users and/or trolls.
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For a long time now, the trend in corporate communications has been to say less and less in public, and to respond to questions by simply repeating previous statements while saying nothing of substance. I think eliminating the role of these reps was just the next logical step. There is really no need for these agencies to communicate with photographers at all; we're not their customers.
You nailed it, that is exactly what is happening in corp comm and media relations, and I am seeing that to the extreme in emails to the point I have replied to these emails by saying, "did you even read the message I just sent?".
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For a long time now, the trend in corporate communications has been to say less and less in public, and to respond to questions by simply repeating previous statements while saying nothing of substance. I think eliminating the role of these reps was just the next logical step. There is really no need for these agencies to communicate with photographers at all; we're not their customers.
You nailed it, that is exactly what is happening in corp comm and media relations, and I am seeing that to the extreme in emails to the point I have replied to these emails by saying, "did you even read the message I just sent?".
The same thing has been happening in politics. The number one rule for a candidate today is "stick to the script", and the script contains as little meaningful content as possible. In tech support, we now have what are called "sponge listeners" who will apologize and offer empathy, but can't seem to actually answer your question or solve your problem.
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It's not just agency reps. I think the greater loss is the big contributors, they had a ton to offer but were run out of here. Sean is the only one I can think of that is still around.
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Arent you a big one as well? Mellimage posts here too. So thats 3. And there are a plenty of others. Gbalex, PixelBytes, PaulieWalnuts, Hobostocker, Baldrickstrousers, all with tons of experience. ShadySue, Jo Ann, etc etc.
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It's not just agency reps. I think the greater loss is the big contributors, they had a ton to offer but were run out of here. Sean is the only one I can think of that is still around.
cost/benefits analysis.
after a while all the most common topics are discussed to death and it gets boring.
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Yes, more time shooting and less time forum-ing. :)
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For a long time now, the trend in corporate communications has been to say less and less in public, and to respond to questions by simply repeating previous statements while saying nothing of substance. I think eliminating the role of these reps was just the next logical step. There is really no need for these agencies to communicate with photographers at all; we're not their customers.
Until the day comes we all have enough and walk. Then the CEOs and the like will come begging.
I don't think they will come begging, they operate a pyramid scheme, always some new suckers out there who will just love to get their images seen. Many of us are at the point with the stupidity of reviewers that we are ready to dump them anyway.
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Hey Jeff, hows things?
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Hey Jeff, hows things?
Apart from the silliness over at SS, things have been great, my granddaughter got Married, I got to walk her down the aisle, that was special, I have a wonderful great granddaughter who loves her papa (that is what the grandkids and now Great grandkids call me), I get to skype with them every couple of days. Trying to talk my wife into retiring and moving to Idaho or Washington ;-)
How goes it with you Ron?
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Lately SS and Canva are absent from the forum, when they were the most regular ones to communicate here. Most agencies had a rep here communicating with us. It all seems to have dried up.
Do yo think the tough MSG community has driven away Agency reps?
The sites seem to have a pattern of sending someone here when they want to announce something like a major change and then the person disappears until the next announcement or the person's replacement does an introduction.
But yes, if I was an agency rep I wouldn't want to spend any time here. Things usually start off with decent semi-professional communication and quickly go to keyboard warriors with heated debates, bickering, and insults.
When the bickering gets to be too much I give this place a break and check in once in a while.
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For a long time now, the trend in corporate communications has been to say less and less in public, and to respond to questions by simply repeating previous statements while saying nothing of substance. I think eliminating the role of these reps was just the next logical step. There is really no need for these agencies to communicate with photographers at all; we're not their customers.
Until the day comes we all have enough and walk. Then the CEOs and the like will come begging.
I don't think they will come begging, they operate a pyramid scheme, always some new suckers out there who will just love to get their images seen. Many of us are at the point with the stupidity of reviewers that we are ready to dump them anyway.
They simply do not care. It is evident when they will not even listen to the folks who have helped thousands and thousands of new contributors gain the skills & insight they need to be accepted as contributors.
Now that they have what they believe to be sufficient training in place through the blog, community leaders, vids and skillfeed. The people who helped them become successful in the first place are all expendable.
In fact I think they are hoping older contributors disappear, if they replace us with new contributors, it is less out of pocket.