Ok lets see what everyone thinks about this one!

I am talking about the licensing uses for EL's at varying agencies and what everyone thinks about them!

Take for instance Fotolia you get an EL and they get to run print runs on it and make a fortune off of it while you pretty much get pennies for it.
This is why i halted uploading to Fotolia once i found out about the licensing terms of usage.

I am spread over some 11 or more sites and cant remember all of them and have to write them down to keep track of them.

So last night i found out that CanStockPhoto has a similar EL license terms of use as Fotolia has.

Take for example:

They buy an image for $25 and use it 10,000 times so their cost per POD is .0025 or pennies now if the average POD sale for them is lets say $50 and they get that for 10,000 POD's then they make $500,000 AKA one half million dollars!

Looks like i need to stop shooting and start buying so i can sell the stuff on Ebay, Graiglist, Fine Art America, Zazzle and wherever else i can.

So does everyone like their work being sold this way or not?

I mean why should someone other then me be able to use my work to get rich and i cant?

Well, you are selling on microstock agencies. That's what microstock means. You could always pull your photos and place them on midstock agencies like Alamy, or get into Getty or Corbis and place your images there. Those would make you far more money.

I understand what you are saying and agree to a certain point, but no one is holding a gun to your head to sell on any agency. It's your choice.

If you noticed what i said about what i did with Fotolia.

Fotolia has one of the worst licenses around, very permissive, confusing and contradictory.

Ok lets see what everyone thinks about this one!

I am talking about the licensing uses for EL's at varying agencies and what everyone thinks about them!

Take for instance Fotolia you get an EL and they get to run print runs on it and make a fortune off of it while you pretty much get pennies for it.
This is why i halted uploading to Fotolia once i found out about the licensing terms of usage.

I am spread over some 11 or more sites and cant remember all of them and have to write them down to keep track of them.

So last night i found out that CanStockPhoto has a similar EL license terms of use as Fotolia has.

Take for example:

They buy an image for $25 and use it 10,000 times so their cost per POD is .0025 or pennies now if the average POD sale for them is lets say $50 and they get that for 10,000 POD's then they make $500,000 AKA one half million dollars!

Looks like i need to stop shooting and start buying so i can sell the stuff on Ebay, Graiglist, Fine Art America, Zazzle and wherever else i can.

So does everyone like their work being sold this way or not?

I mean why should someone other then me be able to use my work to get rich and i cant?

If you are able to turn your images into items that sell 10,000 times at a price of 50$ - go for it.

If you assume it happens all the time just because it is possible in theory - you have lost all sense for reality.

Of course I would like to get more money for ELs or sometimes stricter license terms by the agencies (did you know that FT not even requires an EL for unlimited print run? That is covered by the regular license, so you could see your image on the cover of a magazine with over a million print run and you just received a sub download for it...).
But if you look at it from the other side: Lower prices for ELs might mean that you get more sales. If somebody is trying to sell products with images on them (t-shirts, posters, mugs,...) he will need to factor in the license price into his calculation (on top of production and marketing and other costs...). If prices are too high, that will mean less business. The big question (where I don't think anyone has the answer) is where the sweet spot is...

Quote from: ruxpriencdiam on January 25, 2012, 08:26

Ok lets see what everyone thinks about this one!

I am talking about the licensing uses for EL's at varying agencies and what everyone thinks about them!

Take for instance Fotolia you get an EL and they get to run print runs on it and make a fortune off of it while you pretty much get pennies for it.
This is why i halted uploading to Fotolia once i found out about the licensing terms of usage.

I am spread over some 11 or more sites and cant remember all of them and have to write them down to keep track of them.

So last night i found out that CanStockPhoto has a similar EL license terms of use as Fotolia has.

Take for example:

They buy an image for $25 and use it 10,000 times so their cost per POD is .0025 or pennies now if the average POD sale for them is lets say $50 and they get that for 10,000 POD's then they make $500,000 AKA one half million dollars!

Looks like i need to stop shooting and start buying so i can sell the stuff on Ebay, Graiglist, Fine Art America, Zazzle and wherever else i can.

So does everyone like their work being sold this way or not?

I mean why should someone other then me be able to use my work to get rich and i cant?

If you are able to turn your images into items that sell 10,000 times at a price of 50$ - go for it.

If you assume it happens all the time just because it is possible in theory - you have lost all sense for reality.

Of course I would like to get more money for ELs or sometimes stricter license terms by the agencies (did you know that FT not even requires an EL for unlimited print run? That is covered by the regular license, so you could see your image on the cover of a magazine with over a million print run and you just received a sub download for it...).
But if you look at it from the other side: Lower prices for ELs might mean that you get more sales. If somebody is trying to sell products with images on them (t-shirts, posters, mugs,...) he will need to factor in the license price into his calculation (on top of production and marketing and other costs...). If prices are too high, that will mean less business. The big question (where I don't think anyone has the answer) is where the sweet spot is...

I dont need to sell my images!

I can go buy some of the best around from Micro sites which allow POD with an EL and then do what i want with them like sell them as fine prints at Fine Art America or even create a Zazzle store and sell all kinds of things.

Quote from: dirkr on January 25, 2012, 11:02

Quote from: ruxpriencdiam on January 25, 2012, 08:26

Ok lets see what everyone thinks about this one!

I am talking about the licensing uses for EL's at varying agencies and what everyone thinks about them!

Take for instance Fotolia you get an EL and they get to run print runs on it and make a fortune off of it while you pretty much get pennies for it.
This is why i halted uploading to Fotolia once i found out about the licensing terms of usage.

I am spread over some 11 or more sites and cant remember all of them and have to write them down to keep track of them.

So last night i found out that CanStockPhoto has a similar EL license terms of use as Fotolia has.

Take for example:

They buy an image for $25 and use it 10,000 times so their cost per POD is .0025 or pennies now if the average POD sale for them is lets say $50 and they get that for 10,000 POD's then they make $500,000 AKA one half million dollars!

Looks like i need to stop shooting and start buying so i can sell the stuff on Ebay, Graiglist, Fine Art America, Zazzle and wherever else i can.

So does everyone like their work being sold this way or not?

I mean why should someone other then me be able to use my work to get rich and i cant?

If you are able to turn your images into items that sell 10,000 times at a price of 50$ - go for it.

If you assume it happens all the time just because it is possible in theory - you have lost all sense for reality.

Of course I would like to get more money for ELs or sometimes stricter license terms by the agencies (did you know that FT not even requires an EL for unlimited print run? That is covered by the regular license, so you could see your image on the cover of a magazine with over a million print run and you just received a sub download for it...).
But if you look at it from the other side: Lower prices for ELs might mean that you get more sales. If somebody is trying to sell products with images on them (t-shirts, posters, mugs,...) he will need to factor in the license price into his calculation (on top of production and marketing and other costs...). If prices are too high, that will mean less business. The big question (where I don't think anyone has the answer) is where the sweet spot is...

I dont need to sell my images!

I can go buy some of the best around from Micro sites which allow POD with an EL and then do what i want with them like sell them as fine prints at Fine Art America or even create a Zazzle store and sell all kinds of things.

I misunderstood you, I didn't get the "print on demand" part.
But: can you point me to the license terms of any microsite allowing PODs? I have yet to see that, and whenever I looked, it was not allowed...

ruxpriencdiam: Correct me if I am wrong but I think you have to create your own images for Zazzle, I don't think you can just buy someones else's photo and use it on your products. I'm not sure how Fine Art America works though but I would be pretty pi**** off if someone could just by one of my images with an EL and legitimately sell it in this way.

I believe they can with an EL, many Yuri selling out there..

Thanks for your response luissantos84 but did you mean it is OK for Zazzle or Fine Art America or both?

Quote from: KuriousKat on January 25, 2012, 12:09

ruxpriencdiam: Correct me if I am wrong but I think you have to create your own images for Zazzle, I don't think you can just buy someones else's photo and use it on your products. I'm not sure how Fine Art America works though but I would be pretty pi**** off if someone could just by one of my images with an EL and legitimately sell it in this way.

dirkr: Apparently you should find this on the CanStockPhoto Enhanced License

I missed Duncan's statement before my post.
Looks like my interpretation of their license terms differs from his (see my post in the thread in the Canstock forum).


In that case I fully agree: PODs should not be allowed, not even via EL.

I'm surprised that a User Agreement is sufficiently unclear that it leaves itself open to interpretation! Isn't this the legal contract between purchaser/contributor/CanStockPhoto? It would be interesting to test that one in a Court.....

Heres the problem regardless.... Whos gonna catch these people and whos gonna spend the countless hours and days searching to find these people....The sites?? Forget about it. They help when and if we find them. There was a site posted on SS last week in the Netherlands that does nothing but put up Images to use as Prints and wallpaper for your living room at prices in the thousands of dollars. No credit is given. I wrote them as did others asking to see the license they have to do this. They wrote back saying all is legit. they bought them at DT and can do anything they want. OK....lets see, If I spend a few thousand dollars and buy the top Landscape Images and open a POD site and charge $500/$1000 for a print. Im good to go? The artist gets nothing except a Sale....Once. The site makes Money and I can print as many as I can sell without so much as a credit to the artist.. That sucks Big Time and sites should be ashamed for allowing this. Thats a big Black eye in My view about this business.

+1 that's the site i was speaking about somewhere on theses forums where they buy an EL and then do POD's for upwards of $3000 a pop and all you the photographer gets is the measly $25!!!!

Something is really wrong with that.

I think Bottom Line is it's on us,to really read whats going on. The last 2 days im going back to all my sites and opting out of print sales for my Paintings and artistic stuff. The pure stocky stuff, I don't care. No one is going to print them anyway at least I don't think so. My fault for letting these go through in my haste of speedy uploading. I just find it odd they would even offer that option. My Bad I assume. OH WELL. another 3000 to go. LOL.

I think Bottom Line is it's on us,to really read whats going on. The last 2 days im going back to all my sites and opting out of print sales for my Paintings and artistic stuff. The pure stocky stuff, I don't care. No one is going to print them anyway at least I don't think so. My fault for letting these go through in my haste of speedy uploading. I just find it odd they would even offer that option. My Bad I assume. OH WELL. another 3000 to go. LOL.

I agree that the bottom line is with us, and that we really all need to read all the terms and conditions of each individual site. I also  think someone said earlier in the thread that there is usually an 'opt-out' for Els if you are not happy with the terms of the licence.

Reading up and opting out gives us an element of choice and control but it is very difficult to make an informed decision if the wording of a licence agreement is misleading.

Quote from: KuriousKat on January 25, 2012, 12:22

Thanks for your response luissantos84 but did you mean it is OK for Zazzle or Fine Art America or both?

Zazzle, never looked much into Fine Art America, have a few there too but the yearly fee is holding me off

Zazzle agreement states as follows:
You must own all rights (including copyright) in the image and text you upload or have the written permission of ALL persons who own (a) the rights to upload the image or text and (b) the rights to authorize the uses permitted in the User Agreement. If someone other than you is the owner of the image or appears in it or has created the text, you must obtain such permission from those persons. If you upload any image or text that violates our User Agreement, your account may be terminated.

Even POD licensing doesn't give you the copyright! I guess the problem is that too many contributors to Zazzle and the likes are either ill-informed or simply don't care.