Author Topic: Double your portfolio = double your income? (Read 23337 times)

gejam · « **on:** June 16, 2010, 07:11 »

Double your portfolio = double your income?

Yes or no?

Eyedesign · « **Reply #1 on:** June 16, 2010, 07:17 »

Depends on content.

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #2 on:** June 16, 2010, 07:27 »

Quote from: gejam on June 16, 2010, 07:11

Double your portfolio = double your income?

Yes or no?

Possibly, if you have 1 image, and you upload another similar quality different subject. More likely not.

Kone · « **Reply #3 on:** June 16, 2010, 08:55 »

^^ +1

PeterChigmaroff · « **Reply #4 on:** June 16, 2010, 09:18 »

For myself , I have never found this to be true. Usually market forces like increasing dilution hinder doubling income. It's more like double portfolio increase income by 50%. When you look at these these things you have to assume some constants otherwise it's meaningless. You can say stuff like it all depends how good your images are which is of course true but it make this analysis useless.

cidepix · « **Reply #5 on:** June 16, 2010, 09:24 »

Quote from: gejam on June 16, 2010, 07:11

Double your portfolio = double your income?

Yes or no?

Double your portfolio = triple your income

... or even more is possible depending on the quality of images. If the new ones are much better, then the income will be much higher than double.

cybernesco · « **Reply #6 on:** June 16, 2010, 09:28 »

It all depends on how good you are at producing dissimilar images. It is when you reach a point when your images are getting too similar that numbers don't matter anymore. For some people. it is after producing 10 images, some others 1000, some others 10000 and a few lucky gifted ones have unlimted imagination. Denis

PowerDroid · « **Reply #7 on:** June 16, 2010, 09:45 »

Quote from: cidepix on June 16, 2010, 09:24

Double your portfolio = triple your income

... or even more is possible depending on the quality of images. If the new ones are much better, then the income will be much higher than double.

Count me in the YES camp.

If you're doing things right, broadening your range of topics, learning from your mistakes, gradually sharpening your skills, then every additional image should increase your return. Further, as your port grows, you're more likely to hook people into buying multiple images from you.

I've mentioned before that my RPI has been consistent since day one. I have some confidence that every pic I add to my portfolio will increase my sales by a predictable amount.

lisafx · « **Reply #8 on:** June 16, 2010, 09:57 »

Quote from: Zeus on June 16, 2010, 09:18

For myself , I have never found this to be true. Usually market forces like increasing dilution hinder doubling income. It's more like double portfolio increase income by 50%.

^^ +1

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #9 on:** June 16, 2010, 10:05 »

Quote from: PowerDroid on June 16, 2010, 09:45

If you're doing things right, broadening your range of topics, learning from your mistakes, gradually sharpening your skills, then every additional image should increase your return.

Don't forget other peoples' additional images decrease your return at the same time.

PowerDroid · « **Reply #10 on:** June 16, 2010, 10:12 »

Quote from: sjlocke on June 16, 2010, 10:05

Quote from: PowerDroid on June 16, 2010, 09:45
If you're doing things right, broadening your range of topics, learning from your mistakes, gradually sharpening your skills, then every additional image should increase your return.

Don't forget other peoples' additional images decrease your return at the same time.

Good point. All I can share is my own experience. I just checked my spreadsheet, and it shows that when my port was half the size it is now, I was making less than half the money I'm making now (looking at the 14-day rolling average and not a particular day). I'm only a year and a half into ms so far, so at some point I'll probably join the ranks of the other vets here who say that you hit a wall at some point. I just haven't hit it yet, and I hope I don't for some time.

Megastock · « **Reply #11 on:** June 16, 2010, 10:44 »

A lot depends on how fast you can double your portfolio, too. If you could double it overnight, you would notice a big jump in sales. But if it takes you two years the online collections will probably have doubled, too. Hence why it is easier to ramp up sales in your early days. Once you have 10,000 images online it is pretty hard to ramp up another 10K that are unique enough from the from 10K to jump sales by the same amount.

No easy answer to this question...

louoates · « **Reply #12 on:** June 16, 2010, 11:16 »

If I deleted all the crap images I submitted in the first two years and all the zero sales images from that period I would have seen a doubling of my sales with doubling my total portfolio.

vonkara · « **Reply #13 on:** June 16, 2010, 11:27 »

If everyone double their portfolio, everyone will have to double their efforts to gain the same amount of money to me. This is just logic though. Think about quality instead of quantity first... Increase your quality = increase income, that's more like it to me

Edit: Not to forget that the number of designers stay about the same. Buyers don't increase as much as offer (our pics). I have no numbers, but it's obvious that there is more people signing up for selling than buying images.

gostwyck · « **Reply #14 on:** June 16, 2010, 11:36 »

Quote from: PowerDroid on June 16, 2010, 10:12

I'm only a year and a half into ms so far, so at some point I'll probably join the ranks of the other vets here who say that you hit a wall at some point. I just haven't hit it yet, and I hope I don't for some time.

It takes 4-5 years to 'hit the wall'. It's virtually inevitable if you upload with some regularity.

Year 1: Something is always more than nothing.

Year 2: You should double your port and be on a steep learning curve so your income should be rising fast.

Year 3: You'll still add 50% to your port and be benefiting from your increased knowledge.

Year 4: Only 33% increase in port over the year and by now some of your older best-selling images will have been bettered by others. There's less new stuff to learn and help you.

Year 5: Only 25% increase in port. The agency collections are now growing at about the same rate as your port and, with older images dying at about the rate you can produce new ones, your sales will probably stagnate. You've hit the wall.

cathyslife · « **Reply #15 on:** June 16, 2010, 12:07 »

For me, no.

lisafx · « **Reply #16 on:** June 16, 2010, 12:45 »

^^ Excellent summation Gostwyck!

PowerDroid · « **Reply #17 on:** June 16, 2010, 12:59 »

Quote from: gostwyck on June 16, 2010, 11:36

Quote from: PowerDroid on June 16, 2010, 10:12
I'm only a year and a half into ms so far, so at some point I'll probably join the ranks of the other vets here who say that you hit a wall at some point. I just haven't hit it yet, and I hope I don't for some time.

It takes 4-5 years to 'hit the wall'. It's virtually inevitable if you upload with some regularity.

Year 1: Something is always more than nothing.

Year 2: You should double your port and be on a steep learning curve so your income should be rising fast.

Year 3: You'll still add 50% to your port and be benefiting from your increased knowledge.

Year 4: Only 33% increase in port over the year and by now some of your older best-selling images will have been bettered by others. There's less new stuff to learn and help you.

Year 5: Only 25% increase in port. The agency collections are now growing at about the same rate as your port and, with older images dying at about the rate you can produce new ones, your sales will probably stagnate. You've hit the wall.

Thanks, this is a helpful glimpse into the future. I actually would be OK with this outcome, projecting steady but declining rates of growth through year 5, I should still come close to my long-term revenue goal. If I'm just working to maintain that level in the years 5 and beyond, I can live with that.

lefty · « **Reply #18 on:** June 16, 2010, 13:53 »

Quote from: sjlocke on June 16, 2010, 07:27

Quote from: gejam on June 16, 2010, 07:11
Double your portfolio = double your income?
Yes or no?
Possibly, if you have 1 image, and you upload another similar quality different subject. More likely not.

Hm, not sure if I understand sjlocke.
But from my own portfolio, I say first you look for the type or category that sell well for me. Then I increase that topic or category. Not similar but same category. But some time even similars be successful too.
I think depend on site.

But I take sjlocke meaning if you have one good seller of a man with a big fish. You do not want to upload 10 more man with big fish from the same shoot with only slight difference ,ie. camera placement is an inch different, .

lefty · « **Reply #19 on:** June 16, 2010, 13:57 »

Quote from: gostwyck on June 16, 2010, 11:36

Year 4: Only 33% increase in port over the year and by now some of your older best-selling images will have been bettered by others. There's less new stuff to learn and help you.

Year 5: Only 25% increase in port. The agency collections are now growing at about the same rate as your port and, with older images dying at about the rate you can produce new ones, your sales will probably stagnate. You've hit the wall.

Exception is Dreamstime, your oldest pictures still outsell your new. So you stop giving new pictures and sit on backside to let old porfolio sell

cathyslife · « **Reply #20 on:** June 16, 2010, 14:34 »

Quote from: lefty on June 16, 2010, 13:57

Exception is Dreamstime, your oldest pictures still outsell your new. So you stop giving new pictures and sit on backside to let old porfolio sell

Lately, this has pretty much become my philosophy for all the sites!

brookefuller · « **Reply #21 on:** June 16, 2010, 14:51 »

Quote from: Zeus on June 16, 2010, 09:18

For myself , I have never found this to be true. Usually market forces like increasing dilution hinder doubling income. It's more like double portfolio increase income by 50%. When you look at these these things you have to assume some constants otherwise it's meaningless. You can say stuff like it all depends how good your images are which is of course true but it make this analysis useless.

This is along the lines of what I have seen as well. I shoot in sets of 20 images, often with several images on a theme for those Shutterstock downloaders who sometimes pick up more then 1 image on the same theme. I submit 100 images / week to several agencies.

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #22 on:** June 16, 2010, 15:37 »

Quote from: lefty on June 16, 2010, 13:53

But I take sjlocke meaning if you have one good seller of a man with a big fish. You do not want to upload 10 more man with big fish from the same shoot with only slight difference ,ie. camera placement is an inch different, .

No, more like, if you have 1000 images, by the time you upload 1000 more, the first will have dropped in sales, so you didn't double your money at all.

lefty · « **Reply #23 on:** June 16, 2010, 15:45 »

Quote from: sjlocke on June 16, 2010, 15:37

Quote from: lefty on June 16, 2010, 13:53
But I take sjlocke meaning if you have one good seller of a man with a big fish. You do not want to upload 10 more man with big fish from the same shoot with only slight difference ,ie. camera placement is an inch different, .

No, more like, if you have 1000 images, by the time you upload 1000 more, the first will have dropped in sales, so you didn't double your money at all.

Ah, ok, understood now. I forgot the percentage. Thankyou sjlocke.

Norebbo · « **Reply #24 on:** June 16, 2010, 23:25 »

Quote from: gostwyck on June 16, 2010, 11:36

It takes 4-5 years to 'hit the wall'. It's virtually inevitable if you upload with some regularity.

Year 1: Something is always more than nothing.

Year 2: You should double your port and be on a steep learning curve so your income should be rising fast.

Year 3: You'll still add 50% to your port and be benefiting from your increased knowledge.

Year 4: Only 33% increase in port over the year and by now some of your older best-selling images will have been bettered by others. There's less new stuff to learn and help you.

Year 5: Only 25% increase in port. The agency collections are now growing at about the same rate as your port and, with older images dying at about the rate you can produce new ones, your sales will probably stagnate. You've hit the wall.

Very good summary. I'm just over four years into microstock, and I've hit the wall pretty hard. I'm at the point now that I can't seem to grow my income at all, no matter what I do. Very discouraging.

Jonathan Ross · « **Reply #25 on:** June 17, 2010, 02:04 »

Hi Gejam,

Depends on time. As you shoot your images to double your collection your older images start to lose sales so it depends how many images you already have and how quick and well produced your second batch. I cannot achieve that at this point but a beginner who is improving their speed and quality still can.

Best,
Jonathan

gejam · « **Reply #26 on:** June 17, 2010, 02:34 »

My portfolio is about 3000 photos, but I've got 3 months to shoot now, so I hope to create a good bunch of new quality photos, although I do realise it is alot of work. Plus they might feet in to the summer slowdown so I might not see a huge rise in my income.

lisafx · « **Reply #27 on:** June 17, 2010, 08:47 »

Interesting. Jonathan, it sounds like you shoot and upload in big batches and then have some periods of relatively little activity. Is that correct?

If so, I wonder how that would stack up against someone who shoots and uploads consistently about the same amount of images every week or month.

Most of us have seen that we can sit on our laurels for at least a few months with relatively little drop in sales. I wonder if flooding the market with a thousand or so images after a relative dry spell would be likely to produce a big bump in sales, where just uploading the same images at a rate of 30-50/week would go unnoticed by buyers.

fullvalue · « **Reply #28 on:** June 17, 2010, 09:07 »

Quote from: lisafx on June 17, 2010, 08:47

Interesting. Jonathan, it sounds like you shoot and upload in big batches and then have some periods of relatively little activity. Is that correct?

If so, I wonder how that would stack up against someone who shoots and uploads consistently about the same amount of images every week or month.

Most of us have seen that we can sit on our laurels for at least a few months with relatively little drop in sales. I wonder if flooding the market with a thousand or so images after a relative dry spell would be likely to produce a big bump in sales, where just uploading the same images at a rate of 30-50/week would go unnoticed by buyers.

Shooting subject matter at a certain time isn't going to influence when it's needed. Sure on some of the sub sites, designers might download a file just because it's there. But for the most part, I think if they need "an elephant perfoming in a circus in spring", they're not going to download something else because someone uploaded a lot at one time.

PixelsAway · « **Reply #29 on:** June 17, 2010, 09:30 »

My microstock earnings over 30 months grew at an average rate of 0.84 as a function of the portfolio size, i.e.,

doubling portfolio = 1.68 income

In one of my blog post I have a more detailed graph showing different phases in my income growth as function of time, but also including monthly submissions. I am slowing down, unfortunately ...
Microstock Earnings – First 30 Months

lisafx · « **Reply #30 on:** June 17, 2010, 14:57 »

Quote from: fullvalue on June 17, 2010, 09:07

Shooting subject matter at a certain time isn't going to influence when it's needed. Sure on some of the sub sites, designers might download a file just because it's there. But for the most part, I think if they need "an elephant perfoming in a circus in spring", they're not going to download something else because someone uploaded a lot at one time.

You are right, timing is probably irrelevant for a niche subject like an elephant performing in the circus

However I was thinking more along the lines of popular subjects (business, medical, etc.) that are searched for and bought in large numbers every day.

A lot of buyers do "browse recent" or search by age, not to mention that at times the default search engines at various sites have been known to favor newer files. In such cases I would imagine that having hundreds or thousands of images recently uploaded could attract a lot of sales.

Again, I don' know for sure. That's why I am hoping someone who actually has tried doing it that way would want to comment.

Jonathan Ross · « **Reply #31 on:** July 08, 2010, 11:08 »

Hi Lisa,

No we constantly produce here at Andersen Ross. This last year we have entered motion at Getty and have started a stock agency www.spacesimages.com. There are many ways to make money in this business and we try them all. Some pay off bigger than others but that doesn't stop us from trying every avenue.
Not sure what the next move will be right now as we are supporting these two new avenues at this time but I'll let you know when we get there.
When you are represented in every field of stock there is always something new to add to. Micro will come back in our production but right now we are trying different options.

Best,
Jonathan

BImages · « **Reply #32 on:** July 09, 2010, 14:26 »

Just one great picture can double or even triple your sales...

lisafx · « **Reply #33 on:** July 09, 2010, 14:47 »

Quote from: Buzbuzzer on July 09, 2010, 14:26

Just one great picture can double or even triple your sales...

Wouldn't that depend on your sales?

microstockphoto.co.uk · « **Reply #34 on:** July 09, 2010, 15:02 »

Quote from: lisafx on June 17, 2010, 14:57

[...] I would imagine that having hundreds or thousands of images recently uploaded could attract a lot of sales.
Again, I don' know for sure. That's why I am hoping someone who actually has tried doing it that way would want to comment.

I consistently see a significant - and lasting - increase in sales when I upload a few hundred pictures in a few weeks following a trip.
Last summer I travelled to Germany (Duesseldorf - Koeln - Berlin - Dessau) and after an year those pictures are still selling well.
It's quite nice to know that I can repay my holidays in 3-4 months and then start earning, makes me wanna travel all the time.

But I never tried to upload such pictures few at a time, so I can't compare with an alternative scenario.

lisafx · « **Reply #35 on:** July 09, 2010, 15:10 »

Thanks for the info Claudio. That is very interesting. I have never uploaded in bursts. Only a steady 25-30/week for years. I can definitely say I don't see any burst of buying activity after uploading but more steady ups and downs.

So at least we have some anecdotal evidence that bursts of uploading activity may indeed spark a flurry of buying activity, whereas steady uploading clearly doesn't.