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Author Topic: downhill trend all too obvious!  (Read 33962 times)

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« Reply #100 on: August 12, 2010, 18:31 »
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Success breeds success but can also breed stagnation. Thus there is room for new players in a changing environment.


« Reply #101 on: August 12, 2010, 19:50 »
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Seriously.  Seems like a huge time waste to me.  Isn't these image consumer's time worth anything?   :o
Not when you're an amateur blogger and you have all the time in the world. My uneducated ignorant guess is that the "imgbuyer" is not a real image buyer but just looking for free pics, as he has time to dwell on Google and all sites to get cheapos.
I have to come up with 3 pics daily for a European daily media since the Indian designers can't understand the articles in Dutch. I have a commission of 2 euro per pic scouted. According to the Hamburger flipping criterion (8 euro/hr) I have to glance through a number of articles, search for 3 shots, and mail those in 45 mins in total. I can only do my searching on a site (DT) since on Google Images, I would work like Mother Theresa.

« Reply #102 on: August 12, 2010, 20:08 »
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But I do know that there is some very special imagery in Vetta, some real eye popping material which are an inspiration and are completely unrelated to the typical fare. Not that I am trying to drum up support for IS.  Rather I think the success of Vetta, which many exclusive contributors can vouch for, has been watched since Day 1 by the competing agencies.
I think iStock should let non-exclusives into Vetta, with exclusive pics. It would benefit them since they make much more profit on non-exclusives than on exclusives, and they would have a wider creative crowd to tap from. The Vetta collection would still be exclusive then.

« Reply #103 on: August 12, 2010, 20:36 »
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I also think some photographers have been in the stock business for so long they think only commercial image buyers buy images.  My walls are full of prints, many of which were sold as stock.
If you watch the SS Top 50 for a while, it becomes apparent that many if not most of the images on the list have been dled a lot solely because they are pretty pictures, and not for stock use at all - the downloaders have some dls left in their daily quotas so why not?

lagereek

« Reply #104 on: August 13, 2010, 01:29 »
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Success breeds success but can also breed stagnation. Thus there is room for new players in a changing environment.

Wrong!  today there is no room for new players, youd like to think there is, but it isnt. Theres room for part-timers, weekend snappers, etc, whos happy with a few bucks per month, thats all.
and this is the result of all agencies opening the doors for just about anybody followed by clogged up files, spamming, etc.
Nowdays, the supply is outstripping the demand by lightyears.

« Reply #105 on: August 13, 2010, 01:51 »
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Success breeds success but can also breed stagnation. Thus there is room for new players in a changing environment.


Wrong!  today there is no room for new players, youd like to think there is, but it isnt. Theres room for part-timers, weekend snappers, etc, whos happy with a few bucks per month, thats all.
and this is the result of all agencies opening the doors for just about anybody followed by clogged up files, spamming, etc.
Nowdays, the supply is outstripping the demand by lightyears.

I'm in one of the 'races' on istock, with about 60 others - a very small selection. A few are doing very well. Note their start dates. A couple who started a few years ago didn't actually become very active until more recently.
http://www.istockphoto.com/4fr
http://www.istockphoto.com/kparis
http://www.istockphoto.com/taavet
http://www.istockphoto.com/redmonkey8
http://www.istockphoto.com/carlofranco

I believe all of these are making their income from photography (illustration videos on one case), a substantial amount of it from microstock.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2010, 01:55 by averil »

michealo

« Reply #106 on: August 13, 2010, 03:15 »
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Success breeds success but can also breed stagnation. Thus there is room for new players in a changing environment.


Wrong!  today there is no room for new players, youd like to think there is, but it isnt. Theres room for part-timers, weekend snappers, etc, whos happy with a few bucks per month, thats all.
and this is the result of all agencies opening the doors for just about anybody followed by clogged up files, spamming, etc.
Nowdays, the supply is outstripping the demand by lightyears.

I'm in one of the 'races' on istock, with about 60 others - a very small selection. A few are doing very well. Note their start dates. A couple who started a few years ago didn't actually become very active until more recently.
http://www.istockphoto.com/4fr
http://www.istockphoto.com/kparis
http://www.istockphoto.com/taavet
http://www.istockphoto.com/redmonkey8
http://www.istockphoto.com/carlofranco

I believe all of these are making their income from photography (illustration videos on one case), a substantial amount of it from microstock.


I suspect you are wrong in some cases, one I believe is a student and another an IT professional ..

« Reply #107 on: August 13, 2010, 03:44 »
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You're right, although I'm not sure what Carlo is a student of - might be art and design. Guess they're just are amateurs, uploading crap...

(Vetta crap, of course)
« Last Edit: August 13, 2010, 03:46 by averil »

lagereek

« Reply #108 on: August 13, 2010, 05:05 »
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You're right, although I'm not sure what Carlo is a student of - might be art and design. Guess they're just are amateurs, uploading crap...

(Vetta crap, of course)

Well I was thinking more of new players wanting to start off today!  jeez!!  imagine being a neewbie right now?  simply drowning, suffocating among what? some 30 million files.

michealo

« Reply #109 on: August 13, 2010, 05:21 »
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You're right, although I'm not sure what Carlo is a student of - might be art and design. Guess they're just are amateurs, uploading crap...

(Vetta crap, of course)

I never made any comment on what they were uploading. There are some superb photographers within that group.

But your implication that they are making a living from photography doesn't hold up.

The total number of downloads by $ value of download / time on site does not equal a viable wage for most of the examples you quote

« Reply #110 on: August 13, 2010, 05:36 »
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I know that redmonkey8 is attempting to live off his photography, microstock plus some assignment work. He gave up his day job some time ago. Nils (4FR) is a professional photographer. Taavet is an illustrator who's videos must be contributing substantially to his income. As Carlo is a student his income from microstock is probably a large part of his current income, if not in future.  He's only 20 I think. Kurt I'm not sure about. He's still a student in IT I think (postgrad) so photography is probably a substantial income for him too. So yes I'm bending things a bit, but not too much. They're all on the way up in microstock. Sorry for my comment about quality, it wasn't directed at you.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2010, 05:39 by averil »

lisafx

« Reply #111 on: August 13, 2010, 09:57 »
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I think there is still some room for newer people to be successful, but mostly it seems to be the ones who already have years of stock experience.  Jonathan, you have only been in micro a couple of years, right?  And Monkeybusiness started micro in late 2008.  Both of them were experienced stock photographers, and both of them have shot to success. 

It's quite possible that the trad stock pros like them who are willing to join micros have already done so, though.  Not sure how many more of them we can expect to see entering the micro realm.  Particularly as it appears the bubble is in the process of bursting. 

I doubt there will be many more who start like some of us did - green as grass - and then go on to grow our skills and make a living from micro.  For the hobbyists, amateurs, and "aspiring pros",  the party is probably over. 

« Reply #112 on: August 13, 2010, 10:29 »
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Well I was thinking more of new players wanting to start off today!  jeez!!  imagine being a neewbie right now?  simply drowning, suffocating among what? some 30 million files.

Yes, well, sometimes timing is everything.

« Reply #113 on: August 13, 2010, 10:49 »
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I think there is still some room for newer people to be successful, but mostly it seems to be the ones who already have years of stock experience.  Jonathan, you have only been in micro a couple of years, right?  And Monkeybusiness started micro in late 2008.  Both of them were experienced stock photographers, and both of them have shot to success. 

It's quite possible that the trad stock pros like them who are willing to join micros have already done so, though.  Not sure how many more of them we can expect to see entering the micro realm.  Particularly as it appears the bubble is in the process of bursting. 

I doubt there will be many more who start like some of us did - green as grass - and then go on to grow our skills and make a living from micro.  For the hobbyists, amateurs, and "aspiring pros",  the party is probably over. 

I think the "party" is about to start. It will probably be fueled by the great cesspool of 10 million+ spammed-keyword images. I look for micro stock to morph into new specialty sites that do just one or two things (categories) very well with unique and high quality images. I can see a similarity to high quality specialty stores competing successfully with the big box stores like Walmart and Target. Entrepreneurs have great skills for adopting to these kinds of conditions and I expect to see such new ventures in the microstock business as well. I look for those new sites to operate only on a pay-per-download basis, offer custom assignments with realistic pricing, and be fully search-able with Google, etc.

lisafx

« Reply #114 on: August 13, 2010, 11:17 »
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I look for micro stock to morph into new specialty sites that do just one or two things (categories) very well with unique and high quality images. I can see a similarity to high quality specialty stores competing successfully with the big box stores like Walmart and Target.

Those custom and specialty stock "stores" are already cropping up (Jonathan Ross's "Spaces" site for example), but they are in the macro market, whose prices can better afford to sustain such a specialty model. 

The only way to make money at micro prices, for a site or an individual, is to offer a wide variety and quantity of images. 

« Reply #115 on: August 13, 2010, 11:30 »
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I should have made clearer that the new micro sites that specialize as described could justify a premium price compared to the major sites especially with the no-contract direct pay per image setup. Also, the more "new" shooters entering micro would be a big asset in that such a very specialized site could have their choice of the best of the new work.

« Reply #116 on: August 13, 2010, 11:40 »
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Those custom and specialty stock "stores" are already cropping up (Jonathan Ross's "Spaces" site for example), but they are in the macro market, whose prices can better afford to sustain such a specialty model. 

The only way to make money at micro prices, for a site or an individual, is to offer a wide variety and quantity of images. 

Agreed, that it is already here. Some of my fastest growing sites now are illustration only. I can definitely see this becoming a trend. I could even see the larger sites splitting off into specialty or limited content (similar to the Vetta stuff).


OM

« Reply #117 on: August 13, 2010, 15:22 »
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Take away all this subscription crap and Micro will yet again have a good time.
No, just make subscriptions the right price and pay a fixed commission.  Lots of buyers prefer subs, taking that away from them would probably be a mistake.

Let's say that I'm an enterprising Chinese/Russian and I have a good knowledge of the advertising industry in my country with tons of contacts (relatively small, local players) who frequently buy stock. I, as enterprising person, offer them stock from my 'personal' and private archive. Then I go to Fotolia, for example, and I take out a 200+ dollar premium subscription which entitles me to download 750 files in one month. If FT has the majority of contributors in subs, then depending on their status (white to sapphire and exclusive/non-exclusive), for $200 or so, I can download between $6K-$36K worth of images at XL size that month. For $50-$100 more, I can nominate the clients as one of three or one of an unlimited number of users. I pay < $0.20 per download and my clients pay me a special discount rate, of say, $8/download for files up to 15Mp. Ca...ching, ca....ching.
If I can think this up and I'm not smart, how many hundreds or thousands are doing this already. I don't even know if it would be illegal to provide such a service once you have a bought a sub with unlimited users. And once you have the download, you could re-sell multiple times without ever getting caught. If you keep everything in your own language (not English) no-one will ever notice except the contributors that sell one XL sub, never to be sold again.

Just sayin' that's all.

lagereek

« Reply #118 on: August 14, 2010, 01:18 »
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Hi OM!

well yes!  your scenario is very possible indeed!  all these off-the-peg Subs can lend itself to all sorts of dodgy things and dealings. All I know is,  the Subs business might work for SS, thats their thing, as for the rest Im not at all sure.

« Reply #119 on: August 14, 2010, 01:48 »
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Shutterstock is the only site that has paid me from their legal winnings when an image was used with an inappropriate license.  I also don't remember ever having a refund with them.  Look at the sites that sell stolen images and they have collections from the PPD sites as well.  A thief can just use a stolen credit card, they aren't going to pay for a subscription.  Lots of us have had refunds, possibly from people using stolen credit cards.  Either shutterstock don't have that problem or they absorb the costs, like the other sites should.

« Reply #120 on: August 14, 2010, 15:09 »
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 Hi All,

 I would just like to add that I was told 20 years ago by a big stock shooter that the market was shut tight and that we as new students would never have a chance to compete. He's dead now. Always a way in. New images needed every day specially as time makes our older work obsolete. Don't stop trying if you have the passion you will service. Good luck to all of you.

Best,
Jonathan

« Reply #121 on: August 14, 2010, 15:26 »
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Hi All,

 I would just like to add that I was told 20 years ago by a big stock shooter that the market was shut tight and that we as new students would never have a chance to compete. He's dead now. Always a way in. New images needed every day specially as time makes our older work obsolete. Don't stop trying if you have the passion you will service. Good luck to all of you.

Best,
Jonathan

Are you suggesting that we kill our competition literally?  ;D

« Reply #122 on: August 14, 2010, 16:23 »
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LOL!  That's exactly what I thought he was saying!

'He's dead now .  Always a way in. ".

New title :J. Ross- career counselor.

« Reply #123 on: August 14, 2010, 16:29 »
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:rofl: That gives new meaning to the favourite list on Dreamstime.

lagereek

« Reply #124 on: August 15, 2010, 00:25 »
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Yeah well why not,  we blast the competition,  right,  cause thats just about the only remedy left.


 

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