Author Topic: Easter taking its toll (Read 11641 times)

gillian vann · « **Reply #25 on:** April 08, 2012, 20:41 »

Quote from: BaldricksTrousers on April 08, 2012, 13:31

Quote from: RacePhoto on April 06, 2012, 15:46
Quote from: wut on April 06, 2012, 05:41
Across the board . IS is the only one doing business as usual. For now...

Yes, it's Good Friday, Passover started last night at Midnight, so that covers much of the major religions.

Now it's time to say "sales have tanked big time"

If only we could abolish religion we could make the designers buy our work at a nice, steady pace all year round.

It might hit the sales of Christmas and Easter images but I'm sure the retailers would find new reasons for things to need promoting.

I was thinking about that... Not sure what % of the overall stock market is US customers versus the rest of the world. anyone know? There are many countries that haven't shut down for the long weekend.

stockmarketer · « **Reply #26 on:** April 08, 2012, 21:52 »

Quote from: vannphoto on April 08, 2012, 20:41

I was thinking about that... Not sure what % of the overall stock market is US customers versus the rest of the world. anyone know? There are many countries that haven't shut down for the long weekend.

My impression has always been that the U.S. is less likely to take long breaks. When it comes to holidays, vacations, summers, etc., the U.S. is famous for working itself crazy and not taking much time off. Now, Europe, that's another story... or countries like India, where I've heard there are days off work declared for everything under the sun.

wut · « **Reply #27 on:** April 09, 2012, 04:35 »

I checked my last weeks stats at SS and found out, Easter didn't take its toll. Not at all! It was my 2nd BME, manly due to ELs, I had up to 2 per day, along with a lot of ODs sales were strong up until Thursday and since they calculate week's earnings from Sat-Sat it still ended up very strong. What a nice surprise

BaldricksTrousers · « **Reply #28 on:** April 09, 2012, 04:55 »

Quote from: stockmarketer on April 08, 2012, 21:52

Quote from: vannphoto on April 08, 2012, 20:41
I was thinking about that... Not sure what % of the overall stock market is US customers versus the rest of the world. anyone know? There are many countries that haven't shut down for the long weekend.

My impression has always been that the U.S. is less likely to take long breaks. When it comes to holidays, vacations, summers, etc., the U.S. is famous for working itself crazy and not taking much time off. Now, Europe, that's another story... or countries like India, where I've heard there are days off work declared for everything under the sun.

I don't know about that. My impression from watching the sales is that Americans, while always maintaining that they never stop working, have trouble sticking together five days in a row without discovering some "national holiday" and then supplement that with a good ole break in the summer. India has so many religions that respecting their holidays has become a national problem, and I've had Indian diplomats tell me that. Europe seems to have far fewer holidays than the US - basically, Christmas an d Easter plus a break in midsummer and in several cases May Day or Labour Day, but no President's Day, Veterans' Day, Thanksgiving, Columbus Day, Martin Luther King Day .... then Hannukah, Passover etc are chucked in on top. A bit like India, really.

I think this makes the point: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_holidays_in_the_United_States

Compare that mega-list with what the poor old Greeks have to make do with: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_holidays_in_Greece

stockmarketer · « **Reply #29 on:** April 09, 2012, 07:08 »

Quote from: BaldricksTrousers on April 09, 2012, 04:55

I don't know about that. My impression from watching the sales is that Americans, while always maintaining that they never stop working, have trouble sticking together five days in a row without discovering some "national holiday" and then supplement that with a good ole break in the summer.

I think you missed the first line in that wikipedia article about the U.S. holidays... "The United States does not have national holidays in the sense of days on which all employees in the U.S. receive mandatory a day free from work and all business is halted by law." The list of holidays you see on the page are in fact not the list of days that most workers take off.

Here's an interesting comparison of days off by country: http://www.businessinsider.com/countries-take-most-vacation-2011-7

"Despite unprecedented prosperity, Americans work longer and take fewer vacations than almost any developed country. Indeed, we're the only country that doesn't mandate paid vacations for full-time employees. Only Canadians and Chinese work more days."

And as for personal vacation days that we are entitled to, I can tell you that at every place I've ever worked, this is very true: http://money.cnn.com/2011/11/30/pf/unused_vacation/index.htm

We may earn 3 or 4 weeks off, but once you become middle management or higher, it's essentially frowned upon if you try to actually take all those days off... supposedly it looks like you're not dedicated to the company.

wut · « **Reply #30 on:** April 09, 2012, 07:22 »

Wow, no wonder half of the US population needs therapy or at least eating pills like xanax, valium etc like bonbons.

Not dedicated enough, not patriotic enough (constantly putting under pressure by society with such nonsense), combined with all the extra hours and less vacation days it brings you so much extra stress that I'm absolutely sure I wouldn't want to live in an environment like that. And this really applies then: there are ppl so poor, the only thing they have is money.

rubyroo · « **Reply #31 on:** April 09, 2012, 08:20 »

Just to comment on that link from stockmarketer. It says the UK has 28 statutory minimum and 8 public holidays, and therefore assumes everyone gets 36 days off.

Not necessarily true. I have known of some businesses where they actually include the public holidays in their calculations, and only allow 20 days off.

I'm suprised that the US has no statutory minimum at all. Does that mean it's at the discretion of the business owner? In which case, what tends to be the norm?

lisafx · « **Reply #32 on:** April 09, 2012, 16:59 »

Quote from: stockmarketer on April 09, 2012, 07:08

And as for personal vacation days that we are entitled to, I can tell you that at every place I've ever worked, this is very true: http://money.cnn.com/2011/11/30/pf/unused_vacation/index.htm

We may earn 3 or 4 weeks off, but once you become middle management or higher, it's essentially frowned upon if you try to actually take all those days off... supposedly it looks like you're not dedicated to the company.

Absolutely true! Most Americans don't get time off from work for holidays other than Christmas, Easter and Thanksgiving.

My husband worked as a union electrician for 23 years, and even though he was under a union contract, he never got a paid holiday or day off in his life. They took off for Christmas, Easter, and Thanksgiving, but were not paid, and had to get right back to work after the holiday. No week or two off to really enjoy the holidays. And no paid sick time, or vacation either.

I think that's pretty typical for American blue-collar workers. For white collar jobs, Stockmarketer is right, it is frowned upon to take your personal or sick days.

aeonf · « **Reply #33 on:** April 10, 2012, 16:20 »

Near zero downloads for us.
Quite depressing.

RacePhoto · « **Reply #34 on:** April 10, 2012, 16:30 »

Quote from: wut on April 09, 2012, 07:22

Wow, no wonder half of the US population needs therapy or at least eating pills like xanax, valium etc like bonbons.

Not dedicated enough, not patriotic enough (constantly putting under pressure by society with such nonsense), combined with all the extra hours and less vacation days it brings you so much extra stress that I'm absolutely sure I wouldn't want to live in an environment like that. And this really applies then: there are ppl so poor, the only thing they have is money.

Oh please, why are you so shallow and hateful? Here's hours works on average for each country 2010. Of course just because Greece (for example) works more hours, doesn't mean they are more productive, but the debate was hours. Maybe you should take a pill and calm down?

People in ten major countries work more hours than the stressed out USA. Look at Korea, there's a sweet place to live? Or the Czech Republic, Russian Federation. How's Slovania doing - same average as the USA? I suspect there's some jealousy involved in the hate messages that always come from you about Western cultures.

upload images

wut · « **Reply #35 on:** April 10, 2012, 17:33 »

I really don't know who needs to take a chill pill, I was only responding to this post:

Quote from: stockmarketer on April 09, 2012, 07:08

Quote from: BaldricksTrousers on April 09, 2012, 04:55
I don't know about that. My impression from watching the sales is that Americans, while always maintaining that they never stop working, have trouble sticking together five days in a row without discovering some "national holiday" and then supplement that with a good ole break in the summer.

I think you missed the first line in that wikipedia article about the U.S. holidays... "The United States does not have national holidays in the sense of days on which all employees in the U.S. receive mandatory a day free from work and all business is halted by law." The list of holidays you see on the page are in fact not the list of days that most workers take off.

Here's an interesting comparison of days off by country: http://www.businessinsider.com/countries-take-most-vacation-2011-7

"Despite unprecedented prosperity, Americans work longer and take fewer vacations than almost any developed country. Indeed, we're the only country that doesn't mandate paid vacations for full-time employees. Only Canadians and Chinese work more days."

And as for personal vacation days that we are entitled to, I can tell you that at every place I've ever worked, this is very true: http://money.cnn.com/2011/11/30/pf/unused_vacation/index.htm

We may earn 3 or 4 weeks off, but once you become middle management or higher, it's essentially frowned upon if you try to actually take all those days off... supposedly it looks like you're not dedicated to the company.

So please, don't rip it out of context and don't generalize and blame me for something I didn't do or say. If you'd read it in context you wouldn't write nonsense such as me being hateful and more importantly hate messages that always come from me?!? Wow and you're telling me to pop a pill? At least something to calm you down or go to a therapy, you seem over-patriotic and over-protective, jumping the gun for nothing. This is not the wild west, you know

BaldricksTrousers · « **Reply #36 on:** April 11, 2012, 01:13 »

That's a fascinating chart. It seems to make complete nonsense of the claim that Americans are so unbelievably hard working. What is it, a third of the countries in the list where people work harder than in the US?

What's even more interesting is the lack of correlation between being successful and working long hours. OK, there is a correlation for labour-intensive nations, like China, but look at the most economically successful countries in Europe: Germany, Holland, Norway and least successful - Poland, Hungary, Greece. The lazy, workshy, Mediterranean, socialist, decadent Orthodox Greeks work 20% more than the virtuous, overworked, capitalist, Protestant Americans.

And look at the overall figures for the OECD - an American works on average about 4.8 MINUTES longer than the OECD average, Wow! Yet I repeatedly see posts like the one earlier in this threat "When it comes to holidays, vacations, summers, etc., the U.S. is famous for working itself crazy and not taking much time off. Now, Europe, that's another story..." Yup, lazy Greeks, Poles and Turks are harder working.

Face it guys, you're only famous for it among yourselves and in self-congratulatory articles in American magazines. It's propaganda. It's your version of the Soviet "worker hero", you want to see yourself as a nation of Stakhanovites and feel self-sacrificing and virtuous. Which is not saying that a lot of people don't work extraordinarily hard, but there are obviously lots who don't as well, otherwise it would be more than 5 minutes a day above the OECD average.

Quote from: RacePhoto on April 10, 2012, 16:30

Quote from: wut on April 09, 2012, 07:22
Wow, no wonder half of the US population needs therapy or at least eating pills like xanax, valium etc like bonbons.

Not dedicated enough, not patriotic enough (constantly putting under pressure by society with such nonsense), combined with all the extra hours and less vacation days it brings you so much extra stress that I'm absolutely sure I wouldn't want to live in an environment like that. And this really applies then: there are ppl so poor, the only thing they have is money.

Oh please, why are you so shallow and hateful? Here's hours works on average for each country 2010. Of course just because Greece (for example) works more hours, doesn't mean they are more productive, but the debate was hours. Maybe you should take a pill and calm down? People in ten major countries work more hours than the stressed out USA. Look at Korea, there's a sweet place to live? Or the Czech Republic, Russian Federation. How's Slovania doing - same average as the USA? I suspect there's some jealousy involved in the hate messages that always come from you about Western cultures.

upload images

Microbius · « **Reply #37 on:** April 11, 2012, 02:39 »

Quote from: BaldricksTrousers on April 11, 2012, 01:13

That's a fascinating chart. It seems to make complete nonsense of the claim that Americans are so unbelievably hard working. What is it, a third of the countries in the list where people work harder than in the US?

What's even more interesting is the lack of correlation between being successful and working long hours. OK, there is a correlation for labour-intensive nations, like China, but look at the most economically successful countries in Europe: Germany, Holland, Norway and least successful - Poland, Hungary, Greece. The lazy, workshy, Mediterranean, socialist, decadent Orthodox Greeks work 20% more than the virtuous, overworked, capitalist, Protestant Americans.

And look at the overall figures for the OECD - an American works on average about 4.8 MINUTES longer than the OECD average, Wow! Yet I repeatedly see posts like the one earlier in this threat "When it comes to holidays, vacations, summers, etc., the U.S. is famous for working itself crazy and not taking much time off. Now, Europe, that's another story..." Yup, lazy Greeks, Poles and Turks are harder working.

Face it guys, you're only famous for it among yourselves and in self-congratulatory articles in American magazines. It's propaganda. It's your version of the Soviet "worker hero", you want to see yourself as a nation of Stakhanovites and feel self-sacrificing and virtuous. Which is not saying that a lot of people don't work extraordinarily hard, but there are obviously lots who don't as well, otherwise it would be more than 5 minutes a day above the OECD average.

It's just human nature people like to think there is some kind of cosmic justice and rationalize backwards from there. No one likes to think horrible things just happen to good people out of the blue. Look at the narrative of the lazy Greeks,"they are going bankrupt so it must be their own fault for not working hard right?" never mind that they work much longer hours than people in the UK. Work is like a religion for most Greeks I know. There are people killing themselves over there over the shame of unemployment. Don't see too much of that in the UK.
Same thing in the US but reversed, "we are the richest country in the world so we must be the most virtuous and hardest working right? or else why would we be rewarded in this way?"

Then of course there's slave morality that works in the opposite way again, "we are poor, America is rich therefore America must be evil but but we are virtuous so we'll get our reward in heaven" and on and on. And we like to think human beings are rational!

RacePhoto · « **Reply #38 on:** April 11, 2012, 03:00 »

Quote from: BaldricksTrousers on April 11, 2012, 01:13

That's a fascinating chart. It seems to make complete nonsense of the claim that Americans are so unbelievably hard working. What is it, a third of the countries in the list where people work harder than in the US?

Of course politics and nationalism are always complete nonsense. Same goes for charts and stats that are just numbers without conditions and details.

How many hours someone works has nothing to do with productivity or wages or if the people are stressed out pill popping morons. People are jumping out of windows in Japan working for minimum wage making iPads, stressed out and underpaid. In the US there are postal workers who are really private employees, with an overbearing union contract and the term Going Postal wasn't just because the mail was late.

I had relatives in Romania during the wonderful Communist era, who had no meat, curfew at dark, low pay, minimal human rights and yet we have the Socialists and Communists still claiming that the USA is the evil empire? Give me a break.

I hope that explains my point of view when someone says:

Quote from: wut on April 09, 2012, 07:22

Wow, no wonder half of the US population needs therapy or at least eating pills like xanax, valium etc like bonbons.

Not dedicated enough, not patriotic enough (constantly putting under pressure by society with such nonsense), combined with all the extra hours and less vacation days it brings you so much extra stress that I'm absolutely sure I wouldn't want to live in an environment like that. And this really applies then: there are ppl so poor, the only thing they have is money.

With a swipe at the whole country which is not even up to a poor caricature of a generalized shallow view. Absolutely a slap in the face insult and then claims, "Wut, I was only responding..." That's weak.

Noodles · « **Reply #39 on:** April 11, 2012, 03:37 »

Quote from: BaldricksTrousers on April 11, 2012, 01:13

Face it guys, you're only famous for it among yourselves and in self-congratulatory articles in American magazines. It's propaganda. It's your version of the Soviet "worker hero", you want to see yourself as a nation of Stakhanovites and feel self-sacrificing and virtuous. Which is not saying that a lot of people don't work extraordinarily hard, but there are obviously lots who don't as well, otherwise it would be more than 5 minutes a day above the OECD average.

I've worked for American, British, Norwegian and Australian companies. I was actually shocked by how hard Americans worked. Unlike any of the other countries I have worked in, the Americans have this "go for it" attitude. I learnt to respect it and did very well from it. However, after 12 years of living in Australia, I love the laidback culture of Queensland and wouldn't swap it for anything.

Easter has been good anyway. Only about $50 down so far compared to the last 3 months averages.

ShadySue · « **Reply #40 on:** April 11, 2012, 04:05 »

Well, while the rest of you slag off each other's countries' work pattern, I'll boringly get back on topic and post that I have had not one download on iStock for four full days. I haven't had that since some time in my first year there. Luckily, I've had two Alamy sales during that time, taking up the $$ slack; but 4 days without one sale at iStock is super-grim, even for me. Last year, I had 0 dls on Easter Sat/Sun, but some on Monday a and 'normal' on Tuesday; previous years I had dls over the Easter w/e too.

aeonf posted lower sales; is it only the two of us?

wut · « **Reply #41 on:** April 11, 2012, 04:21 »

Quote from: RacePhoto on April 11, 2012, 03:00

Quote from: BaldricksTrousers on April 11, 2012, 01:13
That's a fascinating chart. It seems to make complete nonsense of the claim that Americans are so unbelievably hard working. What is it, a third of the countries in the list where people work harder than in the US?

Of course politics and nationalism are always complete nonsense. Same goes for charts and stats that are just numbers without conditions and details.

How many hours someone works has nothing to do with productivity or wages or if the people are stressed out pill popping morons. People are jumping out of windows in Japan working for minimum wage making iPads, stressed out and underpaid. In the US there are postal workers who are really private employees, with an overbearing union contract and the term Going Postal wasn't just because the mail was late.

I had relatives in Romania during the wonderful Communist era, who had no meat, curfew at dark, low pay, minimal human rights and yet we have the Socialists and Communists still claiming that the USA is the evil empire? Give me a break.

I hope that explains my point of view when someone says:

Quote from: wut on April 09, 2012, 07:22
Wow, no wonder half of the US population needs therapy or at least eating pills like xanax, valium etc like bonbons.

Not dedicated enough, not patriotic enough (constantly putting under pressure by society with such nonsense), combined with all the extra hours and less vacation days it brings you so much extra stress that I'm absolutely sure I wouldn't want to live in an environment like that. And this really applies then: there are ppl so poor, the only thing they have is money.

With a swipe at the whole country which is not even up to a poor caricature of a generalized shallow view. Absolutely a slap in the face insult and then claims, "Wut, I was only responding..." That's weak.

Oh I see, you're just unable to reply with a decent argument, with something that actually makes sense. And I see you don't have the basic knowledge about foreign countries and what's happening around the world (I've bolded the text that proves that). Keep on enjoying Fox news and Tea party meetings

. I'm done having a debate with you, since you lack basic knowledge for it and at the same time you're blinded by patriotism or even nationalism. Lol, Romania is not behind the iron curtain for decades, but you still want to see the world outside of US like that. I take back fox news/tea party suggestion, they're too open minded for you

rubyroo · « **Reply #42 on:** April 11, 2012, 04:23 »

I'd forgotten what this thread was about!

Relax everyone, we're all gonna die. It's a great leveller.

Appalling sales from Friday to Monday morning, and then they 'rose again' on Monday afternoon/evening.

I was surprised to find how many sales I'd had overnight on Monday, and yesterday was terrific, so things seem back on track for me.

gostwyck · « **Reply #43 on:** April 11, 2012, 04:24 »

Quote from: BaldricksTrousers on April 11, 2012, 01:13

That's a fascinating chart.

Is it? How could such accurate figures, down to the exact hours worked over an entire year from such a variety of nations, be compiled and from what source? (Btw, where's France in all that?)

So the Greeks claim that they work lots and lots of hours do they? Well why didn't they collect some taxes from all those busy bees then?

Over half of China, until recently, has been defined as 'rural'. How can an international organisation possibly know how many hours a subsistence farmer works? Due to the 'one child' policy it is believed that there are about 60M individuals who were secretly born (as second or third children) but were never registered or educated and are condemned to eek out a living in the black economy. That's roughly equal to the working population of the UK and France combined. Who's collecting their working hours?

I don't record how many hours I work and never have. How is it that the OECD, or wherever that 'chart' came from, appear to know my habits?

Sorry but there's no way that the data in that chart can be accurate enough to make any worthwhile deductions from.

Noodles · « **Reply #44 on:** April 11, 2012, 04:25 »

Quote from: ShadySue on April 11, 2012, 04:05

Well, while the rest of you slag off each other's countries' work pattern, I'll boringly get back on topic and post that I have had not one download on iStock for four full days. I haven't had that since some time in my first year there. Luckily, I've had two Alamy sales during that time, taking up the $$ slack; but 4 days without one sale at iStock is super-grim, even for me. Last year, I had 0 dls on Easter Sat/Sun, but some on Monday a and 'normal' on Tuesday; previous years I had dls over the Easter w/e too.

aeonf posted lower sales; is it only the two of us?

Had a zero day on Sunday which I put down to being Easter Hols, but Easter Monday gave 24 downloads, which is a few above average. So that doesn't make sense but I'll take it

Tuesday so far 15 downloads. Hope it picks up for you both.

wut · « **Reply #45 on:** April 11, 2012, 04:27 »

Quote from: ShadySue on April 11, 2012, 04:05

Well, while the rest of you slag off each other's countries' work pattern, I'll boringly get back on topic and post that I have had not one download on iStock for four full days. I haven't had that since some time in my first year there. Luckily, I've had two Alamy sales during that time, taking up the $$ slack; but 4 days without one sale at iStock is super-grim, even for me. Last year, I had 0 dls on Easter Sat/Sun, but some on Monday a and 'normal' on Tuesday; previous years I had dls over the Easter w/e too.

aeonf posted lower sales; is it only the two of us?

Wow, really

?!? Because I've had at least one sale during the same period, but mostly sales weren't really down, Monday for instance was like every normal Mon, yesterday as well. Are you sure there's nothing wrong with your port, are your images searchable?

ShadySue · « **Reply #46 on:** April 11, 2012, 04:59 »

Quote from: wut on April 11, 2012, 04:27

Quote from: ShadySue on April 11, 2012, 04:05
Well, while the rest of you slag off each other's countries' work pattern, I'll boringly get back on topic and post that I have had not one download on iStock for four full days. I haven't had that since some time in my first year there. Luckily, I've had two Alamy sales during that time, taking up the $$ slack; but 4 days without one sale at iStock is super-grim, even for me. Last year, I had 0 dls on Easter Sat/Sun, but some on Monday a and 'normal' on Tuesday; previous years I had dls over the Easter w/e too.

aeonf posted lower sales; is it only the two of us?

Wow, really ?!? Because I've had at least one sale during the same period, but mostly sales weren't really down, Monday for instance was like every normal Mon, yesterday as well. Are you sure there's nothing wrong with your port, are your images searchable?

Yes; there seems to have been a slight best match shakeup, pushing indy and especially indy+ images - but my usual 'test searches' show my images just a few slots down from where they were the last time I looked.

BaldricksTrousers · « **Reply #47 on:** April 11, 2012, 05:04 »

My sales over Easter were poor but at least there was something every day.

Now, to go back off topic....

Quote from: gostwyck on April 11, 2012, 04:24

Quote from: BaldricksTrousers on April 11, 2012, 01:13
That's a fascinating chart.

Is it? How could such accurate figures, down to the exact hours worked over an entire year from such a variety of nations, be compiled and from what source? (Btw, where's France in all that?)

So the Greeks claim that they work lots and lots of hours do they? Well why didn't they collect some taxes from all those busy bees then? .

I think this is probably the source (though it's presented differently - and does include France)

http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/factbook-2011-en/07/01/06/07-01-06-g1.html?contentType=/ns/StatisticalPublication,/ns/Chapter&itemId=/content/chapter/factbook-2011-63-en&containerItemId=/content/serial/18147364&accessItemIds=&mimeType=text/html

Yeah, sure, I agree, stats are always slippery things but if it is all meaningless why do governments (we) pay national statistics agencies and OECD statisticians a fortune to compile these figures? They obviously don't include the unemployed, I think they are just for those in regular employment.

Greece's problems are not about a lack of willingness to work, they are about the lack of political will to erase corruption, a host of non-real state sector jobs where people do go to work but have nothing to do and the squandering of resources (such as building the now derelict Olympic stadiums) etc. etc..

One example of this corruption/lack of will is the 100 million euro unpaid electricity bill of the country's aluminium smelter. The electricity officials have not collected it for years because they say the politicians didn't want them to put the aluminium company out of work, as that would have put thousands of voters out of work. It's stupid and, of course, nobody admits responsibility but everybody suspects the electricity officials/politicians got backhanders to let things slip. There's a passing reference to it here http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite2_1_20/03/2012_433955

It probably doesn't matter a jot how long or hard people work if the State is corrupt and is siphoning off money to give away to the elite. Not collecting taxes or other revenues is part of that process.

gostwyck · « **Reply #48 on:** April 11, 2012, 05:22 »

^^^ True enough. However let us not forget that Greece was only allowed into the Euro by conspiring with Goldman Sachs to hide $1B of their national debt. If they're going to such lengths to lie about stuff like that then I'm not sure how much credibity I'd give to any other numbers issued by the Greek government. I don't mean to pick on the Greeks but they are a good example of why you should not blindly accept 'government statistics' ... from any government, anywhere, any time.

Microbius · « **Reply #49 on:** April 11, 2012, 05:38 »

I don't think that anyone would accuse you of picking on the Greeks for saying the Greek government is corrupt, least of all the Greek people!

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Author Topic: Easter taking its toll (Read 11641 times)

gillian vann

stockmarketer

wut

BaldricksTrousers

stockmarketer

wut

rubyroo

lisafx

aeonf

RacePhoto

wut

BaldricksTrousers

Microbius

RacePhoto

Noodles

ShadySue

wut

rubyroo

gostwyck

Noodles

wut

ShadySue

BaldricksTrousers

gostwyck

Microbius

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