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Author Topic: End of travel commercial photography in Europe?  (Read 10143 times)

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« on: June 18, 2015, 01:33 »
+8
Hi, as a travel photographer I have just come across a terrible update of copyright law being amended by EU Parliament just now. Now law should be ready in July... Under this update, amendatory clause no 421 to EU directive 2001/29/ES it would be forbidden to publish and sell images taken on public property without a consent of all owners or copyright holders of the properties. This would totally remove freedom of panorama in the whole EU and forbid us selling and publishing photos of architecture, landmarks, cities in Europe... This would probably ruin my microstock business. Thanks EU. Thanks again... :P


Semmick Photo

« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2015, 01:37 »
+1
It seems there is no clause 421 in EU directive 2001/29/ES. Do you have a link please?

« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2015, 02:32 »
0
It is being discussed in EP and the change has a wide support... So, it is not included in the text yet. Well, I was looking for some information in English, for example here: http://www.communia-association.org/2015/04/15/reda-report-the-10-worst-and-the-5-best-amendments/
or here
http://arstechnica.co.uk/tech-policy/2015/06/european-parliament-committee-adopts-controversial-pro-user-copyright-reform-report/
it is number 4... Author of this amendemnt is Jean-Marie Cavada...
« Last Edit: June 18, 2015, 02:55 by Fyletto »

« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2015, 03:05 »
+8
So every documentarist,news, and camera crew in the world will then need to carry a truckload of paperwork to do a 360 pan at a public place?
And what does your country's constitution say about this?
I've come to realize that EU as an institution can legislate freely,but it all comes down to every indivudual countrys copyright laws.

The day we will lose that priviledge (if we ever do) ,trust me,we wont be bothered about selling photos.The context of this decision will bring far bigger issues regarding personal freedoms to just bother with selling photos and video.

OM

« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2015, 03:26 »
0
deleted
« Last Edit: June 18, 2015, 03:29 by OM »

« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2015, 03:36 »
+8
That's something you'd expect from EU. A failed project by design.

It's exactly what they want, take away all personal freedoms to "protect us" from "terrorism" while pulling as many poor people in and force everyone to take them, even though majority of people in all countries are against it. At the same time screwing europeans with huge unemployment and lower wages.

EU is the socialist utopia created by the banks, for the banks.

« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2015, 03:42 »
+8

EU is the socialist utopia created by the banks, for the banks.

Errr ... isn't there a bit of a disconnect here? Last time I looked the banks were pushing capitalism for all it's worth.

« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2015, 05:15 »
+7
i wouldn't bother too much, the EU keeps pushing weird ideas all the time but there's no chance something like this will pass, it's also unenforceable and of course it can't be retroactive, i wonder who are these fools even thinking about such draconian laws ... pretty much ANY news editorial image is shot in public spaces without model/property release ! another stroke of genius from the eurocrats ...

 

« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2015, 05:27 »
+8

EU is the socialist utopia created by the banks, for the banks.

Errr ... isn't there a bit of a disconnect here? Last time I looked the banks were pushing capitalism for all it's worth.

When major international banks go broke in a free market capitalism, there are no bailouts. They would go bankrupt. Read about the quantitative easing policy being done in US/UK/EU/Japan. Anyone with a good understanding in economy knows it simply devalues the currency, creates inflation and skyrocket the stock market, creating wealth for the top 0,1% and not improving the general economy. That's not capitalism, that's state controlled economy.

The banks finance all the mainstream political parties, so it doesn't matter who wins, politicians are always tied up. The few anti-EU/pro-Europe exceptions are effectively bombarded against in the media. Elections nowadays are a major distraction so people think they actually have a choice, while unelected eurocrats like Juncker decide the (catastrophic) future of Europe.

« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2015, 05:37 »
+1

EU is the socialist utopia created by the banks, for the banks.

Errr ... isn't there a bit of a disconnect here? Last time I looked the banks were pushing capitalism for all it's worth.

Not necessarily. Many of these people who want more and more wealth, will acquire it by offering you some product / service only because they have to. If a time comes where they can just take your stuff, or they can just make you work for them and that's it (slave) they will do it - and they are starting to act like a new aristocracy.

« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2015, 05:40 »
+4
We have to worry. If no discussion, this will pass. I shared links with some journalists.
Added hashtag on twitter #savepanoramafreedom

« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2015, 06:13 »
+13
All I can say is that I'm British, and the sooner we are out of this silly, self serving, extra layer of unnecessary bureaucracy the happier I will be.
"Unsustainable" is a word that is often bandied around here.
That's what the EU is.   

« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2015, 06:41 »
+3
When major international banks go broke in a free market capitalism, there are no bailouts. They would go bankrupt. Read about the quantitative easing policy being done in US/UK/EU/Japan. Anyone with a good understanding in economy knows it simply devalues the currency, creates inflation and skyrocket the stock market, creating wealth for the top 0,1% and not improving the general economy. That's not capitalism, that's state controlled economy.

The banks finance all the mainstream political parties, so it doesn't matter who wins, politicians are always tied up. The few anti-EU/pro-Europe exceptions are effectively bombarded against in the media. Elections nowadays are a major distraction so people think they actually have a choice, while unelected eurocrats like Juncker decide the (catastrophic) future of Europe.

agree 100% !

but actually the big banks have been all bailed out, only a few small fish went bankrupt, with the notorious excuse that they were too big to fail.

nowhere in the world there is true capitalism as far as i've seen in my travels, it's always a mix and if we talk about europe it's a horrible case of "social democracy" that looks more and more like a revamp of the old USSR if we talk about burocracy and planned economy.

« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2015, 09:52 »
+3
All I can say is that I'm British, and the sooner we are out of this silly, self serving, extra layer of unnecessary bureaucracy the happier I will be.
"Unsustainable" is a word that is often bandied around here.
That's what the EU is.

Well they broke constitutional laws and changed referendum rules just for a single case and pulled Croatia in this artificial union ruled by people who have never been elected by nobody and calling them self democratic. Doing all that with their corrupted puppets who would sell their mothers if they could.

I hope this breaks into peaces sooner the better.

Semmick Photo

« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2015, 10:12 »
+3
So every documentarist,news, and camera crew in the world will then need to carry a truckload of paperwork to do a 360 pan at a public place?
And what does your country's constitution say about this?
I've come to realize that EU as an institution can legislate freely,but it all comes down to every indivudual countrys copyright laws.

The day we will lose that priviledge (if we ever do) ,trust me,we wont be bothered about selling photos.The context of this decision will bring far bigger issues regarding personal freedoms to just bother with selling photos and video.

No, its about  commercial use, not for editorial use

Semmick Photo

« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2015, 10:12 »
0
Quote
The report will now be voted on by the full European Parliament on July 9, where more amendments could be made. The final text will then be sent to the European Commission, which will use it as input for a legislative proposal on copyright reform, expected to appear by the end of the year.

« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2015, 10:35 »
+3
And how exactly will that work?There has to be a total constitunional reform and again each country has its own laws and political agenda.
Gotta love these European beaureocrats.Their greed and neo feudal wet dreams that theyre trying to impose can only be matched with their stupidity and incompetense.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2015, 11:34 by gcrook »


« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2015, 12:00 »
+5
All I can say is that I'm British, and the sooner we are out of this silly, self serving, extra layer of unnecessary bureaucracy the happier I will be.
"Unsustainable" is a word that is often bandied around here.
That's what the EU is.

Well they broke constitutional laws and changed referendum rules just for a single case and pulled Croatia in this artificial union ruled by people who have never been elected by nobody and calling them self democratic. Doing all that with their corrupted puppets who would sell their mothers if they could.

I hope this breaks into peaces sooner the better.
What makes me laugh, is when we kick politicians out here because we don't want them, they bob back up with their cheery buddies in the European Parliament.
As you say, who are these people elected by?

« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2015, 13:32 »
+6
All I can say is that I'm British, and the sooner we are out of this silly, self serving, extra layer of unnecessary bureaucracy the happier I will be.
"Unsustainable" is a word that is often bandied around here.
That's what the EU is.

Well they broke constitutional laws and changed referendum rules just for a single case and pulled Croatia in this artificial union ruled by people who have never been elected by nobody and calling them self democratic. Doing all that with their corrupted puppets who would sell their mothers if they could.

I hope this breaks into peaces sooner the better.
What makes me laugh, is when we kick politicians out here because we don't want them, they bob back up with their cheery buddies in the European Parliament.
As you say, who are these people elected by?

The most important thing is that there is not a single democratic tool available to peoples that can remove members of the European commission from their places, not a single one. They are getting installed by their buddies replaced by them and its all just a theater powered by corporate interests. And when you dig deeper the saddest part is that the places and positions are inherited from their family members from the past that have started the project in the first place. 

« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2015, 18:33 »
+6
positions are inherited from their family members from the past that have started the project in the first place.

same for US presidents ... Bill Clinton and now  Hillary Clinton, the Bush Sr and Junior and now Jeb Bush, the Kennedy dinasty, etc etc

« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2015, 00:17 »
+1
Interesting - this night my site was attacked. After i published about this projects of law? Same hand

« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2015, 01:13 »
+1
I read on a different site that there is a very strong French lobby of professional photographer association trying to push this through. Having no problem aquiring what is needed with the help of the association or as the freedom of panorama is already quite limited in France or Belgium, they want a weapon against competition in the other countries where the panorama freedom is implemented fully. Of course you the reason introduced by the EU is effort to unify rules of panorama freedom across the EU...

« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2015, 01:21 »
+7
All I can say is that I'm British, and the sooner we are out of this silly, self serving, extra layer of unnecessary bureaucracy the happier I will be.
"Unsustainable" is a word that is often bandied around here.
That's what the EU is.
Yeh, on the other hand do not forget the primary purpose of the EU - which is peace among the member countries. What was unimanigable for hundreds of years was made possible by the establishing EU (or its predecessors). If one of the strongest EU countries leaves and the other follow, wouldn't there be a possibility of future wars again? I say lets reform and simplify this beast but keep it as tool which helps and not tries to rule us...

Semmick Photo

« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2015, 01:34 »
+7
Smug UKers. It's not good for anybody when they leave.

« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2015, 03:06 »
+7
Yeh, on the other hand do not forget the primary purpose of the EU - which is peace among the member countries. What was unimanigable for hundreds of years was made possible by the establishing EU (or its predecessors). If one of the strongest EU countries leaves and the other follow, wouldn't there be a possibility of future wars again? I say lets reform and simplify this beast but keep it as tool which helps and not tries to rule us...

there are no wars in western europe because we've been imposed a "pax americana" in the US occupied territories after 1945, nobody is allowed to move a finger without the agreement of the US and NATO but once there's a common interest they're pretty quick in sending their warplanes ... see Yugoslavia, Lybia, Sirya, Kosovo, and now Ukraine .. ohh i forgot they're also running another color revolution in Macedonia now while the mainstream medias arent even covering the news.


« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2015, 03:09 »
+2
Smug UKers. It's not good for anybody when they leave.

actually it would make sense for the UK to join the USA rather than the EU.

as for Greece their Plan B is to be saved by Russia in exchange for lucrative oil/gas and military long-term deals, which also applies to Turkey, which is why Erdogan is now under fire.

« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2015, 03:13 »
0
Pierre, if you write a book, then create a movie - i wish you to become a millionaire, you can. No sarcasme, but if?


Tror

« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2015, 06:00 »
+5
The EU brings many good things, but does so much harm as well. They destroy step by step any business friendly environment, kill off startups with tons of useless bureaucracy and regulations, suck out freedom and independency of local governments and identities....I hope they continue pushing BS like this until it all collapses.

To you Brits (and Greeks :-) ): Get out of the EU. Independence and freedom is worth way more than a couple of trade agreements bundled with a truckload of unnecessary regulations. And no, the EU does not create wealth. Only amongst some already wealthy and "too big too fail" Institutions.

« Last Edit: June 19, 2015, 06:04 by Tror »

Semmick Photo

« Reply #28 on: June 19, 2015, 06:07 »
+17
This a moment I wish the disagree button was back. Couldnt disagree more. You need to educate yourself on what Europe has enabled.

Free travel, one currency, freedom of movement, freedom of work, reduced loads of price fixing such as the mobile providers, constantly fining big US conglomerates trying to push their illegalities on the good people of the union. etc etc Europe is a better place for it. Not all is good, I dont like Europe messing with local laws, but its not all as bad as you make it out to be.

In your theory, all US states need to be separate countries too.

« Reply #29 on: June 19, 2015, 06:24 »
0

In your theory, all US states need to be separate countries too.
In paper the states aren't.
Oh,except Detroit.Michigan.

« Reply #30 on: June 19, 2015, 06:25 »
0

In your theory, all US states need to be separate countries too.
In paper the states aren't.
Oh,except Detroit,Michigan.

Semmick Photo

« Reply #31 on: June 19, 2015, 06:25 »
0

In your theory, all US states need to be separate countries too.
In paper the states aren't.
Oh,except Detroit.
I didnt say they were

« Reply #32 on: June 19, 2015, 06:32 »
+3

In your theory, all US states need to be separate countries too.
In paper the states aren't.
Oh,except Detroit.
I didnt say they were

So ultimately we are arguing whether Europe as a constitution despite it's achievements (and MAJOR screwups) can impose laws as an authority to it's counterparts or whether we would like this to happen more often?
Do we want a truly united Europe with a central head making decisions?(hence the Detroit example). Well thats what the Brussels beaureocrats are fantacising day and night.
We can debate this but the truth is that pretty soon the European structure will crumble (it already has thanks to the stupidity of its leaders) .
« Last Edit: June 19, 2015, 06:38 by gcrook »

« Reply #33 on: June 19, 2015, 06:54 »
+1
Pierre, if you write a book, then create a movie - i wish you to become a millionaire, you can. No sarcasme, but if?


actually the oil/gas deal with russia and turkey are already under way :
http://rt.com/business/268279-russia-greece-turkish-stream/

and Putin openly talked today about bailing out greece, he's meeting Tsipras in this very moment :
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jun/17/tsipras-to-meet-putin-over-bailout-loan-as-fears-of-greek-exit-from-eu-mount

« Reply #34 on: June 19, 2015, 07:04 »
+2
The EU brings many good things, but does so much harm as well. They destroy step by step any business friendly environment, kill off startups with tons of useless bureaucracy and regulations, suck out freedom and independency of local governments and identities....I hope they continue pushing BS like this until it all collapses.

To you Brits (and Greeks :-) ): Get out of the EU. Independence and freedom is worth way more than a couple of trade agreements bundled with a truckload of unnecessary regulations. And no, the EU does not create wealth. Only amongst some already wealthy and "too big too fail" Institutions.

just like in china and the US, the core issues affecting the EU are systemic and they're also the result of 70 yrs of american involvement in the colonization of the continent.

while the medias are busy screaming about the latest immigration scandals and emergencies very few are discussing about the root issues that led to the actual scenario.

strictly speaking, we're witnessing the final stage of the moribund social experiment called "euro-style social democracy" .. negative population growth, high unemployment, millions of illegals crossing our borders in total impunity, and this is just the tip of the iceberg.

Semmick Photo

« Reply #35 on: June 19, 2015, 07:05 »
0

In your theory, all US states need to be separate countries too.
In paper the states aren't.
Oh,except Detroit.
I didnt say they were

So ultimately we are arguing whether Europe as a constitution despite it's achievements (and MAJOR screwups) can impose laws as an authority to it's counterparts or whether we would like this to happen more often?
Do we want a truly united Europe with a central head making decisions?(hence the Detroit example). Well thats what the Brussels beaureocrats are fantacising day and night.
We can debate this but the truth is that pretty soon the European structure will crumble (it already has thanks to the stupidity of its leaders) .
Thats not what I am saying. We have some misunderstandings here. Anyhoo, I am not up for a political dicussion today

« Reply #36 on: June 19, 2015, 07:09 »
+4
Free travel, one currency, freedom of movement, freedom of work, reduced loads of price fixing such as the mobile providers, constantly fining big US conglomerates trying to push their illegalities on the good people of the union. etc etc Europe is a better place for it. Not all is good, I dont like Europe messing with local laws, but its not all as bad as you make it out to be.

In your theory, all US states need to be separate countries too.

i'm from europe and i fully agree we're having it a lot better than in the 80s, traveling in particular is a breeze now but also working in EU countries is no longer a burocratic mess like in the past, you ca get all the red tape sorted out in days or weeks.

said that, i remain of the opinion nobody needs this kind of monolithic centralized non-elected government elite, the original vision has always been about a federation of states.

the way it's going now reminds me a lot of the USSR instead and will follow the same steps.
for starters it's already a police state.


« Reply #37 on: June 19, 2015, 07:16 »
0

In your theory, all US states need to be separate countries too.
In paper the states aren't.
Oh,except Detroit.
I didnt say they were

So ultimately we are arguing whether Europe as a constitution despite it's achievements (and MAJOR screwups) can impose laws as an authority to it's counterparts or whether we would like this to happen more often?
Do we want a truly united Europe with a central head making decisions?(hence the Detroit example). Well thats what the Brussels beaureocrats are fantacising day and night.
We can debate this but the truth is that pretty soon the European structure will crumble (it already has thanks to the stupidity of its leaders) .
Thats not what I am saying. We have some misunderstandings here. Anyhoo, I am not up for a political dicussion today

Strange i thought that we were on the same path here,where each one of us was deviating slightly at some point.Anyway, good discussion.
I will just comment on your last remark though,unfortunately this thread is the epitome of politics.You can get much more political than that.
Off to shoot a non political timelapse (its an abandoned factory although politics shut it down-ok now im confused) :)

ultimagina

« Reply #38 on: June 19, 2015, 07:31 »
+3
No major forum is imune to Putin's troll army. With all this bashing against EU, US, capitalism, etc, I would not be surprised if this one is also infected or influenced


Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: June 19, 2015, 07:33 by ultimagaina »

« Reply #39 on: June 19, 2015, 08:40 »
+2
positions are inherited from their family members from the past that have started the project in the first place.

same for US presidents ... Bill Clinton and now  Hillary Clinton, the Bush Sr and Junior and now Jeb Bush, the Kennedy dinasty, etc etc

Even if they are related, the positions aren't inherited. They still have to get elected. And it's nothing new. Benjamin Harrison was the grandson of William Henry Harrison, both presidents, and FDR was a nephew of Theodore Roosevelt, with lots of different presidents in-between. They all still have to get elected on their own merits.

In fact, Jeb probably should have been the only other Bush to get elected instead of W.

« Reply #40 on: June 19, 2015, 08:52 »
+2
This a moment I wish the disagree button was back. Couldnt disagree more. You need to educate yourself on what Europe has enabled.

Free travel, one currency, freedom of movement, freedom of work, reduced loads of price fixing such as the mobile providers, constantly fining big US conglomerates trying to push their illegalities on the good people of the union. etc etc Europe is a better place for it. Not all is good, I dont like Europe messing with local laws, but its not all as bad as you make it out to be.

In your theory, all US states need to be separate countries too.

The U.S. states were originally intended to be like separate countries with a federal government getting certain limited powers. Then we had a large Civil War and the side that wanted to keep it that way for the wrong issue lost. I personally would rather keep things decentralized for the reasons the EU is now facing but sometimes local governments can be very wrong just as easily as big distant ones.

« Reply #41 on: June 19, 2015, 09:58 »
+3
All I can say is that I'm British, and the sooner we are out of this silly, self serving, extra layer of unnecessary bureaucracy the happier I will be.
"Unsustainable" is a word that is often bandied around here.
That's what the EU is.
Yeh, on the other hand do not forget the primary purpose of the EU - which is peace among the member countries. What was unimanigable for hundreds of years was made possible by the establishing EU (or its predecessors). If one of the strongest EU countries leaves and the other follow, wouldn't there be a possibility of future wars again? I say lets reform and simplify this beast but keep it as tool which helps and not tries to rule us...

First of all it was never about the peace, it was about the money and trading...

You are writing about removing possibilities of future wars, man they got us at the gates of the next one deploying nuclear bases all around the place at this same time.

They are reforming all the time and the directions of their reforms are fully and clearly visible, they are kicking more and more people out of their homes , using their money to save the banks that created this situation anyway and the middle class is disappearing as the rich are getting richer.

 

ultimagina

« Reply #42 on: June 19, 2015, 12:07 »
+4
sometimes local governments can be very wrong just as easily as big distant ones.

Without the pressure from strict EU standards, a lot of local governments would continue or multiply their corrupt wrongdoings
For some countries, the EU membership and the rules that came along, is the best thing that happened in their recent history.


Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

StockPhotosArt.com

« Reply #43 on: June 19, 2015, 12:29 »
+3
Without the pressure from strict EU standards, a lot of local governments would continue or multiply their corrupt wrongdoings
For some countries, the EU membership and the rules that came along, is the best thing that happened in their recent history.

On the other hand, the EU and some of the most powerful parties of the most powerful countries kept funding corrupt parties and corrupt governments to keep them in power since it's allways useful to have lackeys at hand.

Many of these parties ended up creating and assigning tv licenses to former leaders, or companies directed by former leaders of those parties as a way to guarantee that any political opposition would get destroyed.

This way, the EU assured that they were able to continue their wrongdoings, even if it was common knowledge that the EU funds were being distributed by friends to buy countless Ferraris, and not applied to the development of the economy which was great since there would be less competition to some economies.

Long story short, in the case o Portugal all ended in:
- a possible future default,
- an extremely impoverished population that has lost the few rights they conquered in the revolution,
- hundreds of thousands of our youth (the most qualified generation in 900 years of history) seeking work in other countries flushing all the effort the country put into their education and supplying rich countries with a highly educated workforce on which they haven't spent a dime.

So, in Portugal's case there could have been some advantages to be part of the EU, but the result was a support and finance of the corrupt parties that change places in government so they may divide the loot.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2015, 14:16 by StockPhotosArt »

Semmick Photo

« Reply #44 on: June 19, 2015, 13:10 »
0
This a moment I wish the disagree button was back. Couldnt disagree more. You need to educate yourself on what Europe has enabled.

Free travel, one currency, freedom of movement, freedom of work, reduced loads of price fixing such as the mobile providers, constantly fining big US conglomerates trying to push their illegalities on the good people of the union. etc etc Europe is a better place for it. Not all is good, I dont like Europe messing with local laws, but its not all as bad as you make it out to be.

In your theory, all US states need to be separate countries too.

The U.S. states were originally intended to be like separate countries with a federal government getting certain limited powers. Then we had a large Civil War and the side that wanted to keep it that way for the wrong issue lost. I personally would rather keep things decentralized for the reasons the EU is now facing but sometimes local governments can be very wrong just as easily as big distant ones.
Well said Rob.

Semmick Photo

« Reply #45 on: June 19, 2015, 13:13 »
+3
Without the pressure from strict EU standards, a lot of local governments would continue or multiply their corrupt wrongdoings
For some countries, the EU membership and the rules that came along, is the best thing that happened in their recent history.

On the other hand, the EU and some of the most powerful parties of the most powerful countries kept funding corrupt parties and corrupt governments to keep them in power since it's allways useful to have lackeys at hand.


How does that work when the people choose the people in power? The EU is not a separate being. The people running the EU are voted into office by the people of the countries. The EU doesnt put local governments in power either. Dont blame the EU then, blame the people who voted.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2015, 13:16 by Semmick Photo »

ultimagina

« Reply #46 on: June 19, 2015, 14:02 »
+2
Maybe not everybody realizes that mr Putin loves to divide and conquer.

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StockPhotosArt.com

« Reply #47 on: June 19, 2015, 14:14 »
+1
How does that work when the people choose the people in power? The EU is not a separate being. The people running the EU are voted into office by the people of the countries. The EU doesnt put local governments in power either. Dont blame the EU then, blame the people who voted.

Don't worry, I do severely blame the citizens of my country for the choices they've been making for the past decades.

But don't underestimate what happens in the elections of (some) European countries just because we're in Europe. There are many examples worldwide where people are manipulated through the Media into voting in some candidates, and that happens in Europe too. The two main parties spend millions of euros in the campaigns violating all the laws. Money that come from banks, and other European parties promoting a propaganda tsunami barely impossible to fight by smaller parties, making them almost invisible.

In the case of Portugal you also have the two private TV channels owned by people linked to the two parties that alternate in power. The parties in the opposition are either ignored, ridiculed or a target for defamatory campaigns. The other "main" party not in power at the moment always get some great exposure. The public channel is always a propaganda channel for the party in power.

Even at this moment, there's a new party with a very well known person in front of it that could potentially make a serious dent in the parliament configuration, and the campaigns of character assassination have already started. And we're months away from the elections.

By then I believe all sorts of unfunded accusations have been risen, his reputation stained and it will take years for the courts to rule he's innocent of those accusations. In the end, if the court gives him reason that will be ignored by the media, or the case will prescribe as it happens with all the processes involving politicians from the two main parties or people associated with it.

Plus, Portuguese voters came out of a dictatorship with medieval values (literally) in 1974, with the few people that had any education with only 4 years of studies and extremely limited capability to understand even simple issues. They are unable to interpret an article in a newspaper. Many of them started to vote in a certain party by counseling of the priest and they kept doing it with a football club support perspective, we vs. them. If you ask people they cannot articulate arguments to justify their vote.

Their children, more educated, are now completely alienated from politics and most of the young people in Portugal doesn't vote because they don't believe in the main parties and repeat the propaganda the media feed them about other parties and candidates. Yet they know the name of all the characters of the tele-novelas or the name of players of the main football teams.

Many high-profile and honest people, I believe, don't get into politics because those two parties dominate the economy, and their family members can suffer consequences. And when someone tries to fight the corrupt power, he gets menaced, their pets killed and children stalked as a warning just as it happened to the judge of the case involved the former prime-minister and other examples like the menaces around reporters.

The current prime-minister in the recent past evaded taxes (forgot that he earned 5000 monthly for two years and so forgot to declare it!!!), evaded the contributions to the Social Security (didn't know that independent workers had to pay Social Security!!!) and NOTHING happened to him. And no state organization made anything despite the massive protests of those who still care.

So, simply saying that people vote in some parties is only part of the reality. Things are much more complicated than that. With enough power and control people turn into mere puppets, happy to have bread and circus.

And this is only the tip of the iceberg.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2015, 14:21 by StockPhotosArt »

« Reply #48 on: June 19, 2015, 14:46 »
+1
Maybe not everybody realizes that mr Putin loves to divide and conquer.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

... true - I don t realize it ....

ultimagina

« Reply #49 on: June 19, 2015, 16:02 »
0
Maybe not everybody realizes that mr Putin loves to divide and conquer.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

... true - I don t realize it ....

I'm sure you are not the only one living under a rock.

« Reply #50 on: June 19, 2015, 16:42 »
+4
Without the pressure from strict EU standards, a lot of local governments would continue or multiply their corrupt wrongdoings
For some countries, the EU membership and the rules that came along, is the best thing that happened in their recent history.

On the other hand, the EU and some of the most powerful parties of the most powerful countries kept funding corrupt parties and corrupt governments to keep them in power since it's allways useful to have lackeys at hand.

The people running the EU are voted into office by the people of the countries. The EU doesnt put local governments in power either. Dont blame the EU then, blame the people who voted.
How does that work when the people choose the people in power? The EU is not a separate being.



Not true at all

StockPhotosArt.com

« Reply #51 on: June 19, 2015, 17:01 »
+2
@ Semmick Photo

As a complement to my previous post I'll repeat what Pinto de Balsemo, publicly stated about the elections in Portugal:

"Electing the President of the Republic is like selling a shampoo"

Balsemo is, among other things:

- a former deputy on the mock parliament of the fascist regime,
- one of the founders of PSD - the fake Social-Democrat Party - that have been in half of the governments of Portugal for the past 40 years,
- a former Prime-Minister himself,
- owner of one of the two private TV stations in open-channel, and major newspapers including tabloids and pink press,
- a permanent Bilderberg member,

And you can multiply the people with this profile by the tenths in Portugal. Former government members with permanent presence in the TV as commentators, analysts, etc.

Apart the people from the two parties in the government, I don't think anyone with alternative point of views have a regular place in the TV to express other ideas and are constantly demonized.

« Last Edit: June 19, 2015, 17:05 by StockPhotosArt »

« Reply #52 on: June 20, 2015, 02:31 »
+2
um, not that I want to interrupt the discussion about the presidents of the US, the civil war and history of wars and US an Russian intervention in Europe. 

Does this mean I can't sell editorial or commercial stock photos taken in Europe ?

« Reply #53 on: June 20, 2015, 02:44 »
+5
um, not that I want to interrupt the discussion about the presidents of the US, the civil war and history of wars and US an Russian intervention in Europe. 

Does this mean I can't sell editorial or commercial stock photos taken in Europe ?

Still you can. But no one knows how the bureaucrats in Brussels decide. Europe is developing into a great Soviet Union!

Semmick Photo

« Reply #54 on: June 20, 2015, 02:48 »
0
Without the pressure from strict EU standards, a lot of local governments would continue or multiply their corrupt wrongdoings
For some countries, the EU membership and the rules that came along, is the best thing that happened in their recent history.

On the other hand, the EU and some of the most powerful parties of the most powerful countries kept funding corrupt parties and corrupt governments to keep them in power since it's allways useful to have lackeys at hand.

The people running the EU are voted into office by the people of the countries. The EU doesnt put local governments in power either. Dont blame the EU then, blame the people who voted.
How does that work when the people choose the people in power? The EU is not a separate being.



Not true at all
oh

« Reply #55 on: June 20, 2015, 04:58 »
+8
Back to the OP:
You'll just have to be careful what you photograph.

If you aim you a camera at a government building or a bridge, you'll be accused of being a terrorist
if you photograph a female, you are a stalker and exploiter of women
if you photograph children, you are definitely a pedophile
if you photograph a homeless person, you are an insensitive clod
if you take a selfie, you must be a narcissist

best, stick to shooting butterflies and birds





« Reply #56 on: June 20, 2015, 09:51 »
+1
The next step will be that the EU introduces the light-tax for all fotographs!


KB

« Reply #57 on: June 20, 2015, 12:09 »
0
Back to the OP:
You'll just have to be careful what you photograph.

If you aim you a camera at a government building or a bridge, you'll be accused of being a terrorist
if you photograph a female, you are a stalker and exploiter of women
if you photograph children, you are definitely a pedophile
if you photograph a homeless person, you are an insensitive clod
if you take a selfie, you must be a narcissist

best, stick to shooting butterflies and birds
This is just as true in the US as in the EU.  :(

« Reply #58 on: June 21, 2015, 04:42 »
+1
positions are inherited from their family members from the past that have started the project in the first place.

same for US presidents ... Bill Clinton and now  Hillary Clinton, the Bush Sr and Junior and now Jeb Bush, the Kennedy dinasty, etc etc

Even if they are related, the positions aren't inherited. They still have to get elected. And it's nothing new. Benjamin Harrison was the grandson of William Henry Harrison, both presidents, and FDR was a nephew of Theodore Roosevelt, with lots of different presidents in-between. They all still have to get elected on their own merits.

In fact, Jeb probably should have been the only other Bush to get elected instead of W.

sure they have to be elected but they don't start from zero like anyone else, they start from having already a family "brand" and all their political links not to mention these families tend to be billionaires so money is never an issue and you definitely need to be rich to afford a presidential campaign .. outsiders like Obama are just the exception to the rule.




« Reply #59 on: June 21, 2015, 04:50 »
+4
Maybe not everybody realizes that mr Putin loves to divide and conquer.


if this was true the scenario would be very different especially in eastern europe.

sure, now they're ready to bail out greece but that's the only realistic exception i can remember in the last 20 yrs, russia hasn't been directly involved too much in EU politics apart for oil/gas contracts and other import/export deals.

in particular there's no widespread political support for russia among the major political parties in europe, only the european right wing is vaguely pro-russian but just out of desperation and anti-americanism.

historically it's always been the UK doing their best to divide and boycott the continental powers.



ShadySue

« Reply #60 on: June 21, 2015, 07:57 »
+3
Is there any way to split this thread into the OP's point, in General Stock Discussion, and the politics in Ranting: Off Topic?
I'd like to follow the original photography discussion, but it's getting lost in the other pontifications, interesting as they may (or may not) be.

« Reply #61 on: June 21, 2015, 09:03 »
0
Maybe not everybody realizes that mr Putin loves to divide and conquer.


if this was true the scenario would be very different especially in eastern europe.

sure, now they're ready to bail out greece but that's the only realistic exception i can remember in the last 20 yrs, russia hasn't been directly involved too much in EU politics apart for oil/gas contracts and other import/export deals.

in particular there's no widespread political support for russia among the major political parties in europe, only the european right wing is vaguely pro-russian but just out of desperation and anti-americanism.

historically it's always been the UK doing their best to divide and boycott the continental powers.

-1

« Reply #62 on: June 21, 2015, 15:59 »
+3
Here's a sane and rational article about this potential legislation and what Europeans can do to help change it:

https://medium.com/@owenblacker/freedom-of-panorama-is-under-attack-6cc5353b4f65

ShadySue

« Reply #63 on: June 21, 2015, 17:40 »
0
Here's a sane and rational article about this potential legislation and what Europeans can do to help change it:

https://medium.com/@owenblacker/freedom-of-panorama-is-under-attack-6cc5353b4f65

Thanks for that.
However, the author doesn't seem to make any distinction between 'open' use of files and 'editorial' use.
For example, he says, "It is illegal to publish photographs of the Atomium until the copyright expires on 1 January 2076.", yet there are plenty of photos available for editorial use on iS and SS (and no doubt everywhere else which sells editorial).
Rather peculiarly, Getty/iS's Technical Wiki writer on the Atomium doesn't seem to know the difference between RM/RF and open/editorial only use, as it says:
"Located in Brussels and built for the 1958 Brussels World Fair (Expo 58) the Atomium monument is a representation of a unit of iron crystal.
Imagery of the Atomium is not suitable for royalty-free collections
The Atomium may be suitable within rights-managed collections."

When they clearly meant open use vs editorial.

Someone needs to edit the Technical Wiki.
The linked article says:
"Copyright on the Eiffel Tower has expired. Since a 1990 court case, however, its lighting displays are considered original visual creations, thus this image is censored due to French FoP laws."
Again there are many images of the ET lit up at night available as editorial on iS, SS and no doubt the others, even though Getty/iS technical wiki says:
"The Eiffel Tower is an iconic landmark situated in the heart of Paris, with the lighting set up being subject to copyright protection within France.
The Eiffel tower (by day) is acceptable within Royalty-free imagery as main focus, or as part of a cityscape; imagery taken at twilight when the lights are NOT lit may also be acceptable. Imagery taken at night when the lights are aglow are not suitable for Royalty-free.
Images of the tower by day, as main focus, or as part of a cityscape may be acceptable as Royalty-free Editorial content.

Yet iS has 16,845 'creative' images tagged Eiffel Tower.

Furthermore, images taken at night-time where the tower is part of a city scene, and not the main focus of the images, may also be acceptable. Imagery taken at night when the lights are aglow, and where the Eiffel tower is the main focus, are not suitable as Royalty-free Editorial content.
Imagery of the tower by day, or by night, may be acceptable as Rights-managed content.

But RM can be for commercial use, so how does that work?

No wonder everyone is confused.

« Reply #64 on: June 22, 2015, 02:27 »
0
No wonder everyone is confused.

of course.
these laws are unenforceable unless both the publisher and the photographer live and work in France and their photos end up in a high profile case.

if that matters in many countries it's even illegal to shoot photos inside train stations and airports and yet how many people have been fined or arrested for that ? zero, i guess ...

nothing is going to change until the major powers find a common agreeement on a sort of international "internet police", a kind of Interpol focused on online crimes.

at the moment we're de facto in a Wild West situation that can only get worse, 80-90% of Youtube's content is openly illegal and nobody is moving a finger, even the legitimate copyright holders and their publishers.

it's just too expensive and cumbersome to sue someone in a foreign country for having "shared" stolen material, all the odds are stacked against you, even the major hollywood firms had to fight Youtube for years, if they can't win .. who will ?




« Reply #65 on: June 26, 2015, 02:49 »
0
And what about Google street view? Is that considered as publishing the photos?

« Reply #66 on: June 26, 2015, 02:56 »
+2
I think yes. And they provide commercial services from their site.


Uncle Pete

« Reply #67 on: June 29, 2015, 19:25 »
0
Has anyone been able to fined the actual proposal? Almost 50,000 people have signed a petition without ever reading the document? Amazing!

Please someone provide a link, so I can see what this is all about and what's behind it.

I see someone else saying that what happened is the committee didn't include protection, not that they are changing the laws and revoking it? Is that right? That's very different from adding a new law or regulation.

« Reply #68 on: July 02, 2015, 02:09 »
0
Link to the online petition against the current EU proposals to require permission to publish images of public buildings:

newbielink:https://www.change.org/p/european-parliament-save-the-freedom-of-photography-savefop-europarl-en [nonactive]

And information that's on the EU site:

newbielink:http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/news-room/content/20150615IPR66497/html/EU-copyright-reform-must-balance-rightholders%E2%80%99-and-users%E2%80%99-interests-say-MEPs [nonactive]

If this get's through then looks like I'll be staying at home to photograph tomatoes on white instead of touring Europe.

« Reply #69 on: July 03, 2015, 02:02 »
0
One of biggest problems is to give definitions for commercial and editorial use. There are so many if not a majority of cases when pure commercial is close of mixed with editorial in the same publication, article, edition, book, show, site etc etc etc. And question of privileges and corruption for receiving of any kind of permission.


 

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