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Author Topic: Etsy bestselling photographer reselling Shutterstock files-$1000 a day earnings!  (Read 15637 times)

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ShadySue

« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2017, 18:17 »
0
I've just had discussion with a shop owner on Etsy and she claims that Getty agreed with the resale of modified files purchased with Extended Licence. If this is truth, then perhaps Getty is to blame in this case.

If you got a 'products for resale' EL, then indeed she is covered.
'Enhanced licences' on SS also allow for 'merchandise'.

« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 02:39 by ShadySue »


« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2017, 18:30 »
+3
I've just had discussion with a shop owner on Etsy and she claims that Getty agreed with the resale of modified files purchased with Extended Licence. If this is truth, then perhaps Getty is to blame in this case.

If you got a 'products for resale' EL, then indeed she is covered.
'Enhanced licences' on SS also allow for 'merchandise'.

but not the resale of digital files.

« Reply #27 on: September 21, 2017, 01:50 »
+3
Just found another etsy member reselling images, here's an example with one of my photos

https://www.etsy.com/de/listing/517053752/beach-photography-aerial-people-on-the#item-reporter%3Ffrom_reg%3D2%26joined%3D1

My original:
https://www.dreamstime.com/stock-images-beach-scene-aerial-view-image20325324

That seller has had 3385 sales and I bet none of the photos is her own work

Very surprised to see that etsy took the file down just hours after I claimed my copyright to the file. Wonders happen!

« Reply #28 on: September 21, 2017, 01:53 »
0
Very surprised to see that etsy took the file down just hours after I claimed my copyright to the file. Wonders happen!

Good to hear! They're facing lots of problems with this stuff right now so it's good to see they're on top of things.

ShadySue

« Reply #29 on: September 21, 2017, 02:05 »
+2
I've just had discussion with a shop owner on Etsy and she claims that Getty agreed with the resale of modified files purchased with Extended Licence. If this is truth, then perhaps Getty is to blame in this case.

If you got a 'products for resale' EL, then indeed she is covered.
'Enhanced licences' on SS also allow for 'merchandise'.

but not the resale of digital files.

True, I forgot it's digital files she's selling. I guess the author would have to contact Getty to see if there was a deal.

« Reply #30 on: September 21, 2017, 03:20 »
0
Related question: assuming we are not exclusive in any agency, can we sell our videos and photos on Etsy? Does anyone do it here?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk


« Reply #31 on: September 21, 2017, 03:38 »
0
can we sell our videos and photos on Etsy?

Why wouldn't you be able to?

« Reply #32 on: September 21, 2017, 03:43 »
0
Related question: assuming we are not exclusive in any agency, can we sell our videos and photos on Etsy? Does anyone do it here?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk
Yes you can, I never have though.

« Reply #33 on: September 21, 2017, 05:35 »
0
Related question: assuming we are not exclusive in any agency, can we sell our videos and photos on Etsy? Does anyone do it here?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

Why would you, without any license restrictions?

« Reply #34 on: September 21, 2017, 14:26 »
0
Yes. I sell digital downloads on Etsy.

There is a big market on many sites for components for scrapbooking and digital art. People want digital downloads.

Here is an example of what I am talking about. https://www.etsy.com/shop/MagicalRealityDesign (This is not my shop, but one I purchase from when I am not making my own graphics.)

I use a lot of my own stock images to create graphics for children's books and the like, but I also sell them to designers.
This is my shop. https://www.etsy.com/shop/LivingstonAtLarge
Not much in it at the moment because I am remodeling my house, hence, not much in sales, but when I have it full, it does okay.

Now that I see the LILAxLOLA shop I might consider giving them a run for their money on that one. I have a couple hundred thousand images to work with that are ALL mine AND my daughter owns an online printing company.

Ginger
« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 14:42 by Livingstonatlarge »

« Reply #35 on: September 21, 2017, 14:48 »
0
Related question: assuming we are not exclusive in any agency, can we sell our videos and photos on Etsy? Does anyone do it here?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

Why would you, without any license restrictions?

Most have somewhat restricted TOU's. (Terms of Use) Especially about reselling as digital downloads. So, you can use for physical projects with limited sales but not repackage and sell as your own digital downloads in some other downloadable package.

« Reply #36 on: September 21, 2017, 14:53 »
0
Related question: assuming we are not exclusive in any agency, can we sell our videos and photos on Etsy? Does anyone do it here?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

Why would you, without any license restrictions?

Most have somewhat restricted TOU's. (Terms of Use) Especially about reselling as digital downloads. So, you can use for physical projects with limited sales but not repackage and sell as your own digital downloads in some other downloadable package.

I dunno.  Seems risky somehow.

« Reply #37 on: September 21, 2017, 14:57 »
0
Here is an example of what I am talking about. https://www.etsy.com/shop/MagicalRealityDesign (This is not my shop, but one I purchase from when I am not making my own graphics.)

That's crazy.  It's like a mix of Creative Market (upload whatever you want) and design from the 80s.  What do people do with these "digital downloads".  And why would they go to Etsy to find them, when Etsy is supposed to be crafts and physical goods?

« Reply #38 on: September 21, 2017, 15:32 »
0
I've just had discussion with a shop owner on Etsy and she claims that Getty agreed with the resale of modified files purchased with Extended Licence. If this is truth, then perhaps Getty is to blame in this case.

What does 'modified' mean? 

« Reply #39 on: September 21, 2017, 17:41 »
0

That's crazy.  It's like a mix of Creative Market (upload whatever you want) and design from the 80s.  What do people do with these "digital downloads".  And why would they go to Etsy to find them, when Etsy is supposed to be crafts and physical goods?

People use them in both scrapbooking (Which I know very little about) and very exotic composite digital art pieces (Which I know a lot about). It's a fine art genre that is VERY popular for all kinds of decor. Also, for me, I use them in art compositions for children's books.

« Reply #40 on: September 22, 2017, 02:24 »
+6
I've just had discussion with a shop owner on Etsy and she claims that Getty agreed with the resale of modified files purchased with Extended Licence. If this is truth, then perhaps Getty is to blame in this case.


What does 'modified' mean?


I got a similar mail from the owner of the etsy shop that sold my image (and was taken down after my complaint) Here's what she wrote and my reply regarding "modification":

Quote from: etsy_shop_owner
Hello Oliver,



My name is Amy and I am from Hello Gorgeous Wall Art on Etsy. I received a notice from Etsy on September 20th that a claim has been filed against me that states I am infringing on your intellectual property by selling digital art using a photograph unauthorized by you.

I am writing in response to your claim. I have legally purchased and licensed the photograph from iStock under the appropriate enhanced license and I am in full legal compliance to sell my file on Etsy.



http://www.istockphoto.com/photo/grand-canary-beach-aerial-view-gm497549897-41841904



When I started my shop on Etsy I had a lengthy conversation with iStock. I told them I was interested in selling digital art on Etsy and asked them specifically which imagery can I use to create my files and which ones cant I use. I specifically asked them how can I use the imagery and how am I not allowed to use it. I asked if I can sell my created files that include imagery on Etsy or on any print-on-demand website. I asked that if I am, in fact, allowed to sell them on print-on-demand websites, what do I need to adhere to regarding using any imagery to create my files. And lastly, I asked how can I be assured I am not going to breach any license agreement or find myself in any legal claims made by the original artists or photographers.



iStock informed me that I can use any image on iStock as long as:

1. It comes specifically from the Essentials collection.
2. It is purchased under the extended license.
3. The image is modified and that I have the Photoshop files to show how it was modified.

I was told that as long as all three of the conditions above are met, I can sell my modified art file as a digital product on Etsy and can also use the art as print-on-demand art for selling on print-on-demand websites.

The original image I purchased in reference to your claim is from the Essentials collection, I purchased it under the enhanced license, and I have modified it to create a my new file. I have met all three conditions listed above and I am legally in compliance.



It states very clearly in the Content License Agreement Section 4c that no image can be resold as a standalone file (meaning just the content file itself, separate from the project or end use). It was explained to me that standalone means just the purchased file itself, that I cannot purchase the file, even if under the extended license, and resell it as is, untouched. They clearly stated that as long as I change the original image and modify it in a new file (a project), it is no longer the original standalone file. They added that as long as I have the Photoshop file to show that the original image is modified, then I am legally allowed to sell my file.



I do not use, purchase, or sell images from a site called Dreamstime and I had never heard of that website until now.

After consulting with my legal council regarding this claim, we are confident that this claim made against me on Etsy will be retracted as soon as possible.

And further, that you inform your representative that his assumptions are incorrect and may possibly damage my reputation and business.

And I assume that he will further post a retraction on the Micro Site Group forum where he originally mis-stated that I do not have the legal right to sell my image.


Amy Peterson


My reply:
"Hi Amy,

you might have purchased an EL for my work on stock and I believe you that you acted in good faith, when you put that file on etsy.
But let me explain why you are still infringing on my intellectual property:

I sell Extended Licenses of this file quite often on dreamstime, since it is offered as physical wall art by major companies like Bed, Bath and Beyond and others. They purchase an EL for every canvas print they sell.
Now, dreamstime has a reverse search feature (like google images), so I can see where my images are in use. This is how I found my image in your etsy shop. This goes to show, that you didnt modify my image in a way that makes it a standalone work. Actually, as far as I remember, you just cropped it and made it a tad brighter. This is not enough to offer digital downloads, neither by the TOS of istock nor by etsys Intellectual Property Policy. If it was legal, it could easily destroy istock's business as well as the businesses of thousands of photographers.

Rest assured, if you continue to sell my file I can and will inform every single photographer whose works you are selling and in an instant youll receive tons of DMCA complaints and your shop will be closed faster than you can spell copyright

Regards

Oliver"

« Reply #41 on: September 22, 2017, 02:52 »
+1
I am selling on Etsy too, but not just my stock JPGs.  As a newborn photographer, I know parents love it if I make "dream photos" of their baby, like a baby sleeping on a toadstool in a forest (you love it or you hate it, I know).  What I sell on Etsy are the LAYERED TIF files of my finished dream photos, without the baby of course.  So other baby photographers in the world might buy a "template", cut out their client's baby and put it in one of my layered TIF's.  As I am far too busy for extensive marketing on Etsy, my files are not selling very well (about 350 dollars/year), but as I am making the templates for my own customers, there is no extra work involved except putting them on Etsy.  Every file I sell is accompanied by a very clear TOU in which is explained that the EMPTY template can never be sold, but it can be used for as many babies or other composites as they want.

To LivingstoneAtLarge and other sellers on Etsy I ask :  the reason why I would not sell stock images in large numbers at Etsy is that you have to pay money (about 20 cents) per file, which would be quite a lot of money if I would do that with thousands of images.   Is this also true for larger quantities?  And if yes, then I understand why you sell them as "collections"!


« Reply #42 on: September 22, 2017, 03:34 »
+4
You did the right thing. Why should shops on Etsy benefit financially from your hard work. It's not like they have even left the comfort of their home to get to a special location to get the shot. I like how she threatens you with big talk about talking to her lawyer!

All these frauds are doing is reselling digital files and watching the money roll in. The top seller is making $1000 a day!

The reason they only sell digital files is because it's so easy for their buyers to pop down to Walmart and get a print made. A print which is dirt cheap. Sending a physical print is a lot of trouble.

Let me state there are tons of these shops on Etsy reselling digital files from micro agencies. Someone high up in Shutterstock and Istock needs to take action because it's costing them millions of dollars in lost revenue.

All these shops need to be exposed. Why should they get away with it while hard working photographers struggle.




I've just had discussion with a shop owner on Etsy and she claims that Getty agreed with the resale of modified files purchased with Extended Licence. If this is truth, then perhaps Getty is to blame in this case.


What does 'modified' mean?


I got a similar mail from the owner of the etsy shop that sold my image (and was taken down after my complaint) Here's what she wrote and my reply regarding "modification":

Quote from: etsy_shop_owner
Hello Oliver,



My name is Amy and I am from Hello Gorgeous Wall Art on Etsy. I received a notice from Etsy on September 20th that a claim has been filed against me that states I am infringing on your intellectual property by selling digital art using a photograph unauthorized by you.

I am writing in response to your claim. I have legally purchased and licensed the photograph from iStock under the appropriate enhanced license and I am in full legal compliance to sell my file on Etsy.



http://www.istockphoto.com/photo/grand-canary-beach-aerial-view-gm497549897-41841904



When I started my shop on Etsy I had a lengthy conversation with iStock. I told them I was interested in selling digital art on Etsy and asked them specifically which imagery can I use to create my files and which ones cant I use. I specifically asked them how can I use the imagery and how am I not allowed to use it. I asked if I can sell my created files that include imagery on Etsy or on any print-on-demand website. I asked that if I am, in fact, allowed to sell them on print-on-demand websites, what do I need to adhere to regarding using any imagery to create my files. And lastly, I asked how can I be assured I am not going to breach any license agreement or find myself in any legal claims made by the original artists or photographers.



iStock informed me that I can use any image on iStock as long as:

1. It comes specifically from the Essentials collection.
2. It is purchased under the extended license.
3. The image is modified and that I have the Photoshop files to show how it was modified.

I was told that as long as all three of the conditions above are met, I can sell my modified art file as a digital product on Etsy and can also use the art as print-on-demand art for selling on print-on-demand websites.

The original image I purchased in reference to your claim is from the Essentials collection, I purchased it under the enhanced license, and I have modified it to create a my new file. I have met all three conditions listed above and I am legally in compliance.



It states very clearly in the Content License Agreement Section 4c that no image can be resold as a standalone file (meaning just the content file itself, separate from the project or end use). It was explained to me that standalone means just the purchased file itself, that I cannot purchase the file, even if under the extended license, and resell it as is, untouched. They clearly stated that as long as I change the original image and modify it in a new file (a project), it is no longer the original standalone file. They added that as long as I have the Photoshop file to show that the original image is modified, then I am legally allowed to sell my file.



I do not use, purchase, or sell images from a site called Dreamstime and I had never heard of that website until now.

After consulting with my legal council regarding this claim, we are confident that this claim made against me on Etsy will be retracted as soon as possible.

And further, that you inform your representative that his assumptions are incorrect and may possibly damage my reputation and business.

And I assume that he will further post a retraction on the Micro Site Group forum where he originally mis-stated that I do not have the legal right to sell my image.


Amy Peterson


My reply:
"Hi Amy,

you might have purchased an EL for my work on stock and I believe you that you acted in good faith, when you put that file on etsy.
But let me explain why you are still infringing on my intellectual property:

I sell Extended Licenses of this file quite often on dreamstime, since it is offered as physical wall art by major companies like Bed, Bath and Beyond and others. They purchase an EL for every canvas print they sell.
Now, dreamstime has a reverse search feature (like google images), so I can see where my images are in use. This is how I found my image in your etsy shop. This goes to show, that you didnt modify my image in a way that makes it a standalone work. Actually, as far as I remember, you just cropped it and made it a tad brighter. This is not enough to offer digital downloads, neither by the TOS of istock nor by etsys Intellectual Property Policy. If it was legal, it could easily destroy istock's business as well as the businesses of thousands of photographers.

Rest assured, if you continue to sell my file I can and will inform every single photographer whose works you are selling and in an instant youll receive tons of DMCA complaints and your shop will be closed faster than you can spell copyright

Regards

Oliver"

« Last Edit: September 22, 2017, 03:49 by Dakota »

niktol

« Reply #43 on: September 22, 2017, 04:11 »
+1


Quote from: etsy_shop_owner
Hello Oliver,



My name is Amy and I am from Hello Gorgeous Wall Art on Etsy. I received a notice from Etsy on September 20th that a claim has been filed against me that states I am infringing on your intellectual property by selling digital art using a photograph unauthorized by you.

I am writing in response to your claim. I have legally purchased and licensed the photograph from iStock under the appropriate enhanced license and I am in full legal compliance to sell my file on Etsy.



http://www.istockphoto.com/photo/grand-canary-beach-aerial-view-gm497549897-41841904



When I started my shop on Etsy I had a lengthy conversation with iStock. I told them I was interested in selling digital art on Etsy and asked them specifically which imagery can I use to create my files and which ones cant I use. I specifically asked them how can I use the imagery and how am I not allowed to use it. I asked if I can sell my created files that include imagery on Etsy or on any print-on-demand website. I asked that if I am, in fact, allowed to sell them on print-on-demand websites, what do I need to adhere to regarding using any imagery to create my files. And lastly, I asked how can I be assured I am not going to breach any license agreement or find myself in any legal claims made by the original artists or photographers.



iStock informed me that I can use any image on iStock as long as:

1. It comes specifically from the Essentials collection.
2. It is purchased under the extended license.
3. The image is modified and that I have the Photoshop files to show how it was modified.

I was told that as long as all three of the conditions above are met, I can sell my modified art file as a digital product on Etsy and can also use the art as print-on-demand art for selling on print-on-demand websites.

The original image I purchased in reference to your claim is from the Essentials collection, I purchased it under the enhanced license, and I have modified it to create a my new file. I have met all three conditions listed above and I am legally in compliance.



It states very clearly in the Content License Agreement Section 4c that no image can be resold as a standalone file (meaning just the content file itself, separate from the project or end use). It was explained to me that standalone means just the purchased file itself, that I cannot purchase the file, even if under the extended license, and resell it as is, untouched. They clearly stated that as long as I change the original image and modify it in a new file (a project), it is no longer the original standalone file. They added that as long as I have the Photoshop file to show that the original image is modified, then I am legally allowed to sell my file.



I do not use, purchase, or sell images from a site called Dreamstime and I had never heard of that website until now.

After consulting with my legal council regarding this claim, we are confident that this claim made against me on Etsy will be retracted as soon as possible.

And further, that you inform your representative that his assumptions are incorrect and may possibly damage my reputation and business.

And I assume that he will further post a retraction on the Micro Site Group forum where he originally mis-stated that I do not have the legal right to sell my image.


Amy Peterson


My reply:
"Hi Amy,

you might have purchased an EL for my work on stock and I believe you that you acted in good faith, when you put that file on etsy.
But let me explain why you are still infringing on my intellectual property:

I sell Extended Licenses of this file quite often on dreamstime, since it is offered as physical wall art by major companies like Bed, Bath and Beyond and others. They purchase an EL for every canvas print they sell.
Now, dreamstime has a reverse search feature (like google images), so I can see where my images are in use. This is how I found my image in your etsy shop. This goes to show, that you didnt modify my image in a way that makes it a standalone work. Actually, as far as I remember, you just cropped it and made it a tad brighter. This is not enough to offer digital downloads, neither by the TOS of istock nor by etsys Intellectual Property Policy. If it was legal, it could easily destroy istock's business as well as the businesses of thousands of photographers.

Rest assured, if you continue to sell my file I can and will inform every single photographer whose works you are selling and in an instant youll receive tons of DMCA complaints and your shop will be closed faster than you can spell copyright

Regards

Oliver"



These people are really playing with fire. She had a lengthy conversation with iStock? I wonder if she could produce the record (e.g. emails) of this "conversation" so everyone could see what was really written, and the name of the person that she "conversed with".

Those people should realize that if in breach taking down a shop would be the least of their financial problems. How about compensation plus punitive damages?

BTW the link doesn't work.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2017, 04:15 by niktol »

ShadySue

« Reply #44 on: September 22, 2017, 04:16 »
0
I've just had discussion with a shop owner on Etsy and she claims that Getty agreed with the resale of modified files purchased with Extended Licence. If this is truth, then perhaps Getty is to blame in this case.

What does 'modified' mean?

I got a similar mail from the owner of the etsy shop that sold my image (and was taken down after my complaint) Here's what she wrote and my reply regarding "modification":

Quote from: etsy_shop_owner
Hello Oliver,


When I started my shop on Etsy I had a lengthy conversation with iStock.
...
iStock informed me that I can use any image on iStock as long as:
1. It comes specifically from the Essentials collection.
2. It is purchased under the extended license.
3. The image is modified and that I have the Photoshop files to show how it was modified.

I was told that as long as all three of the conditions above are met, I can sell my modified art file as a digital product on Etsy and can also use the art as print-on-demand art for selling on print-on-demand websites.


Amy Peterson

My reply:
"Hi Amy,
you might have purchased an EL for my work on stock and I believe you that you acted in good faith, when you put that file on etsy.
But let me explain why you are still infringing on my intellectual property:
... ... This goes to show, that you didnt modify my image in a way that makes it a standalone work. Actually, as far as I remember, you just cropped it and made it a tad brighter. This is not enough to offer digital downloads, neither by the TOS of istock nor by etsys Intellectual Property Policy. If it was legal, it could easily destroy istock's business as well as the businesses of thousands of photographers.
...

Have you contacted iS about this? Interesting to hear what they have to say.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2017, 05:00 by ShadySue »

« Reply #45 on: September 22, 2017, 04:36 »
+2
I don't think you have to quote the entire post every time...  :P

ShadySue

« Reply #46 on: September 22, 2017, 04:58 »
+2
I don't think you have to quote the entire post every time...  :P
True  :-[
I'll snip.

« Reply #47 on: September 22, 2017, 06:02 »
+3
Wow, that's crazy.  And who (well we know who) would put out the money for an EL on the off chance they might sell a few on Etsy?

http://www.istockphoto.com/legal/license-agreement#restricted-use

BTW, I can't find any terms for extended licenses on iStock.  All I can find is "what you can't do, unless you buy an EL".  It doesn't actually specify the rights granted by an extended license.  But the products for resale license says:
"No Products for Resale. Unless you purchase an extended license, you may not use content in connection with any goods or services intended for resale or distribution where the primary value lies in the content itself including, without limitation, cards, stationery items, paper products, calendars, apparel items, posters (printed on paper, canvas, or any other media), DVDs, mobile applications or other items for resale, license or other distribution for profit. This includes "on demand" products (meaning products in which content is selected by a third party for customization on such product on a made-to-order basis), including, without limitation, postcards, mugs, t-shirts, posters and other items (this includes the sale of products through custom designed websites, as well as sites such as zazzle.com and cafepress.com)"

So, if we flip it around, "You may use content in connection with any goods or services intended for resale or distribution where the primary value lies in the content itself including, without limitation, cards, stationery items, paper products, calendars, apparel items, posters (printed on paper, canvas, or any other media), DVDs, mobile applications or other items for resale, license or other distribution for profit."  The way it reads is that there is another good, or item or service, that the content is "attached" or "used in connection with".  Not that the content itself is the primary item, modified or not.

It also does not specify or mention (or therefore allow) "digital downloads", modified or not.  There is nothing in the license about "modified".

My opinion.

« Reply #48 on: September 22, 2017, 06:32 »
0
http://www.istockphoto.com/gb/help/licenses

this has a breakdown of what is allowed with links to more details

ETA
http://www.istockphoto.com/gb/legal/license-agreement
"3.c.
No Standalone File Use. You may not use content in any way that allows others to download, extract, or redistribute content as a standalone file (meaning just the content file itself, separate from the project or end use)."


In my opinion that definitely means that she can't offer digital downloads even with an EL.
I can't see any court agreeing that a crop, or brightness adjustment, or rotation will be enough of change to make it a new project.

Also anyone familiar with Etsy's terms? would she have signed off saying she owns the copyright to any photos she is selling? Can't be bothered to look it up myself as my work isn't effected in this case.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2017, 06:40 by Justanotherphotographer »

« Reply #49 on: September 22, 2017, 06:35 »
0
Yes that "plain English" page just links back to the page I linked.

And this use would definitely not be allowed under those descriptions.


 

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