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Author Topic: Etsy bestselling photographer reselling Shutterstock files-$1000 a day earnings!  (Read 15611 times)

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ShadySue

« Reply #50 on: September 22, 2017, 06:36 »
0
BTW, I can't find any terms for extended licenses on iStock.  All I can find is "what you can't do, unless you buy an EL".  It doesn't actually specify the rights granted by an extended license. 

Huh? It's easier to find EL info in iS than most other sites, IMO.

Every single file has a link to a link sic! to this page:
http://www.istockphoto.com/gb/help/licenses which might be where you got the info you posted above.
Directly underneath that paragraph is the info about what you can do with an EL:

Nothing about directly selling the digital files with or without unspecified modifications.

BTW, IME ELs on iS for the last couple of years have been almost non-existent. IIRC I got one last year and none so far this. In the past, I had an average of at least one a month.
Still, I don't want them being resold digitally.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2017, 06:40 by ShadySue »


« Reply #51 on: September 22, 2017, 06:42 »
0
Sorry Sue, updated my previous post with the reference to standalone digital files.

« Reply #52 on: September 22, 2017, 06:51 »
+1
Yes, you're just posting what I posted.  There is nothing that states directly what you _can_ do with an EL.  It states what you _can't_ do without one, which isn't the same.

ShadySue

« Reply #53 on: September 22, 2017, 06:56 »
+1
Yes, you're just posting what I posted.  There is nothing that states directly what you _can_ do with an EL.  It states what you _can't_ do without one, which isn't the same.

Huh?
Why isn't:
"Extended Licence:
Up to 100,000 postcards, greeting cards or other cards, stationery, stickers and paper products;
Up to 10,000 posters, calendars or other similar publications, mugs or mousepads; or
Up to 2,000 t-shirts, sweatshirts, or other apparel, games, toys, entertainment goods like CDs or DVDs, framed or mounted artwork.
Unlimited for electronic products such as mobile applications and electronic templates."

What you can do with an EL?
« Last Edit: September 22, 2017, 06:59 by ShadySue »

« Reply #54 on: September 22, 2017, 06:58 »
0
Found in TERMS OF USE of Etsy :

A. Responsibility for Your Content. You understand that you are solely responsible for Your Content. You represent that you have all necessary rights to Your Content and that youre not infringing or violating any third partys rights by posting it.

ShadySue

« Reply #55 on: September 22, 2017, 06:58 »
+1
Sorry Sue, updated my previous post with the reference to standalone digital files.
We crossed while posting, but I was replying more to Sean's point about not seeing what you can do with ELs.

« Reply #56 on: September 22, 2017, 07:02 »
0
Ah yes, I see what you're saying.  And if that is the only definition, this is definitely prohibited, unless the claim "electronic product"?

niktol

« Reply #57 on: September 22, 2017, 07:05 »
0

Also anyone familiar with Etsy's terms? would she have signed off saying she owns the copyright to any photos she is selling? Can't be bothered to look it up myself as my work isn't effected in this case.

Well, they have an IP policy in place. They sound pretty serious about it.

https://www.etsy.com/uk/legal/ip/

and they have TOS releasing them from a liability for copyright violations by users. That of course does not cover the case when they know about an infringement, so I  expect that they would act promptly upon notification. Which apparently they do.

niktol

« Reply #58 on: September 22, 2017, 07:06 »
0
*****

ShadySue

« Reply #59 on: September 22, 2017, 07:14 »
+1
http://www.istockphoto.com/gb/legal/license-agreement
"3.c.
No Standalone File Use. You may not use content in any way that allows others to download, extract, or redistribute content as a standalone file (meaning just the content file itself, separate from the project or end use)."


And funnily enough this was one of the reasons I only ever bought one iS file to use while teaching: I didn't have the knowledge of how to prevent my department members from extracting the image from a Powerpoint presentation. (Probably it can be done, I just didn't know how).
But also presumably many people use files in such as powerpoints etc and give them to employees to give presentations.
And obviously files can almost always be easily "downloaded or extracted as standalone files" from websites, so again, an unpoliceable restriction.

But still, these examples aren't the same as selling digital files online.

I hope we can get a reply from iS.
However, as I've posted before, I've had several very different answers to the same question from iS support: it seems to depend who answers your question.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2017, 07:25 by ShadySue »

« Reply #60 on: September 22, 2017, 07:28 »
0
If the buyer of the ELs is correct and Getty gave permission to use the files as they have done then any answer from getty is unlikely to illicit the whole truth and nothing but the truth, should they know what that is.

Mir

« Reply #61 on: September 22, 2017, 07:45 »
+2
On Etsy you could file for copyright infringement through their forms, they take down the listing but then the person could counter a notice of copyright infringement and then if you don't sue him in ten days he is allowed to upload the same listing again.
That said if that person receives several infringement notices they could take down his account.

ShadySue

« Reply #62 on: September 22, 2017, 08:15 »
0
If the buyer of the ELs is correct and Getty gave permission to use the files as they have done then any answer from getty is unlikely to illicit the whole truth and nothing but the truth, should they know what that is.
True, but presumably if she was given that answer from a Getty employee, she's in the clear, even if the answer turns out to be counter to Getty policy as stated in their terms as outlined above (if they indeed know what that means).

Not sure where Getty or the file author could go from there (sue the employee?)

Anyone see any of their own files there which were NOT licensed from iS (with an EL)?

« Reply #63 on: September 22, 2017, 12:44 »
0
The whole EL thing is nonsense because the terms are deliberately vague and there's no enforcement.  100,000 prints  - excuse me, I meant "paper products" -  and no one is bothering to count.   

Basically you give them the money, they give you the file, you do anything you want with it, and if a photographer doesn't like it, he can either jump the DMCA hoops, or pound sand.  The new, corporate, "growth-oriented" Etsy couldn't care less.

It's nice to know that this cr@p is being promoted by IS and SS - because I got out of both a year ago.  I wonder though if Alamy is "safe" in this regard.

« Last Edit: September 22, 2017, 15:26 by stockastic »

ShadySue

« Reply #64 on: September 22, 2017, 12:54 »
0
It's nice to know that this cr@p is being promoted by IS and SS - because I got out of both a year ago.
Makes no difference, if anyone is doing it, it affects us all, to some degree, as buyers often satisfice, in all areas of commerce.

Quote
I wonder though if Alamy is "safe" in this regard.

We can't know until we see a use and question it whether any agency is 'safe' - it seems like many enter into individual arrangements which are outside the terms and conditions which can be seen by the public.

From time to time on Alamy's forum, 'special arrangements' are discovered and noted, as with iS (and maybe, for all I know, SS).

I doubt if any are immune from chasing up whatever cents they can muster.

« Reply #65 on: September 22, 2017, 13:37 »
0
If there's a Getty spokesman who told the seller he could resell digital files, I think he told that to more than one seller ...
I already found two almost identical shops, in different countries :

https://www.etsy.com/shop/SisiAndSeb
https://www.etsy.com/shop/DeziDeziDesigns?ref=l2-shopheader-name


« Reply #66 on: September 22, 2017, 14:22 »
+3
There's a ton of shops on Etsy selling the same or similar image files.  It's really quite discouraging when you start searching about the site and find the same illegal stuff over and over again in different shops.

Re: sales figures, the OP's mentioned shop, LILAxLOLA is not making $1000 a day, far from it.  LILAxLOLA had about 25 sales in the past 24 hours (just do screen shots of her #of sales at different times and do the math).  She appears to be selling these at $7.26 each, which would make her gross for the day at $181.50.  A pretty good sum, but far from $1000.  But that's gross: you then have to subtract listing fees, credit card processing fees, and Etsy's own transaction fees; these can add up to quite a bit.  She also offers a 30% discount for purchasing 3 or more downloads, which would lower her gross sales total even further.  She may have offered other discounts at other times; most of the digital shops on Etsy do this.  Because of all these factors, there's no way to know exactly how much she's actually making, but I'd be surprised if she was making more than $100 (net) a day.  That's still pretty good money, though I'm pretty sure she's the exception to the rule.  I've looked at least 100 different Etsy shops that sell only digital downloads, and the vast majority of them have nowhere near the sales volume that LILAxLOLA has. 

Since she doesn't have to create her own art, she probably spends most of her time doing advertising promotion for her shop; I'd love to know how she does that.  That's the real secret to success on Etsy: figuring out how to drive buyers to your shop.  Sounds familiar, doesn't it.


« Reply #67 on: September 22, 2017, 14:39 »
0
You are totally onto something. There seem to be alot of shops selling the same images and same subjects.

Now it's possible it is the same person or just alot of people copying each other. Nearly all these shops sell cute baby pictures of animals, beach sences, trees, abstract art etc




If there's a Getty spokesman who told the seller he could resell digital files, I think he told that to more than one seller ...
I already found two almost identical shops, in different countries :

https://www.etsy.com/shop/SisiAndSeb
https://www.etsy.com/shop/DeziDeziDesigns?ref=l2-shopheader-name

« Reply #68 on: September 22, 2017, 15:54 »
+9
Etsy's FAQ - Terms of Use seems to exclude the use of "stock photos".  Seems this could apply even if an extended license was bought.

"You are using your own photographs -- not stock photos, artistic renderings, or photos used by other sellers or sites. Read more about using appropriate photographs in this Help article."

https://www.etsy.com/legal/sellers/#allowed?ref=us_sell

"Using commercial stock images or others images of items similar to your own is not permitted. Etsy defines stock images as any image produced by individuals who are not involved in your shop for items they have made. We also restrict the use of digitally produced, mocked-up, or rendered images that arent of the finished product."

https://www.etsy.com/help/article/6128


angelawaye

  • Eat, Sleep, Keyword. Repeat

« Reply #69 on: September 22, 2017, 16:35 »
0
Good job Trek!

« Reply #70 on: September 22, 2017, 16:51 »
+2
Etsy's FAQ - Terms of Use seems to exclude the use of "stock photos".  Seems this could apply even if an extended license was bought.

"You are using your own photographs -- not stock photos, artistic renderings, or photos used by other sellers or sites. Read more about using appropriate photographs in this Help article."

https://www.etsy.com/legal/sellers/#allowed?ref=us_sell

"Using commercial stock images or others images of items similar to your own is not permitted. Etsy defines stock images as any image produced by individuals who are not involved in your shop for items they have made. We also restrict the use of digitally produced, mocked-up, or rendered images that arent of the finished product."

https://www.etsy.com/help/article/6128

That simply relates to how items are displayed in a shop in that the images representing the items for sale must be of the actual items for sale and not photos or drawings of something similar.

« Reply #71 on: September 22, 2017, 17:26 »
+1
You are totally onto something. There seem to be alot of shops selling the same images and same subjects.

Now it's possible it is the same person or just alot of people copying each other. Nearly all these shops sell cute baby pictures of animals, beach sences, trees, abstract art etc




If there's a Getty spokesman who told the seller he could resell digital files, I think he told that to more than one seller ...
I already found two almost identical shops, in different countries :

https://www.etsy.com/shop/SisiAndSeb
https://www.etsy.com/shop/DeziDeziDesigns?ref=l2-shopheader-name

Similar design and similar products in dozens of shops. Is this some kind of franchise operation?

« Reply #72 on: September 23, 2017, 18:37 »
+1
This is just the final straw for me.  I've already gotten out of microstock except for Alamy (and GL, which seems to be dead).  If I figure out that Alamy is doing this too, I'll leave them as well.

These days I sell photos on FAA - not often, but when I do, I might make 30 bucks.  If SS sells your photo to one of these Etsy parasites you might get $30 for an EL, and think wow that's great - but it's a one time payment.  You get absolutely nothing for any additional sales on Etsy.  Plus, the Etsy seller can easily undercut your price on FAA for your own photo.

I'm disgusted with microstock agencies, I'm disgusted with Etsy.  They've become slimeballs.   

« Reply #73 on: September 23, 2017, 19:32 »
+4
LilaxLola can be found on Pinterest and Twitter, of course. Interesting.

I wonder what else they're doing for promotion because not that much comes up in the Twitter search.

I really appreciate the effort you guys put into these threads.

I was halfway thinking of doing some stock (I have been doing artsy wildlife stuff and some fashion) but jeez it just seems to be a mess.

Interesting how so many people not in the business  think you can still make some big killing as a photographer.

I guess my biggest beef is all these photographers out there "selling the dream".

I swear I'll never buy another "inspiring tutorial" again. Pfft.

Once you know the basics, it's up to you to find your own schtick and make your own
mistakes I guess.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: September 23, 2017, 19:44 by sydetrips »

« Reply #74 on: September 23, 2017, 21:30 »
0
You are totally onto something. There seem to be alot of shops selling the same images and same subjects.

Now it's possible it is the same person or just alot of people copying each other. Nearly all these shops sell cute baby pictures of animals, beach sences, trees, abstract art etc


type "inhale exhale" into the search bar and you will see many identical images


 

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