MicrostockGroup
Microstock Photography Forum - General => General Stock Discussion => Topic started by: Dakota on September 16, 2017, 19:03
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I was shocked to find this shop called LILAxLOLA reselling tons of shutterstock files as downloadable digital files and making huge amounts of money, upto $1000 a day. (total $368,000!)
https://www.etsy.com/uk/shop/LILAxLOLA?ref=l2-shopheader-name (https://www.etsy.com/uk/shop/LILAxLOLA?ref=l2-shopheader-name)
It's disgusting that this is allowed. It costs a lot of money to produce special photos for some lazy stay at home designer to resell for huge amounts of money.
Check your files are not on there, I noticed tons of Shutterstock files there. I emailed Etsy and they took my files down quickly.
Report the shop on the Etsy home page, bottom left where it says: "Report this shop to Etsy"
Also report to Shutterstock. This thief must be stopped!
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Perhaps Shutterstock contributors could learn from this: you can make $1k a day on Etsy, so why bother with Shutterstock?
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That's amazing that they could earn that sort of money on those images. Does anyone else here sell on etsy?
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Those sales numbers are hard to believe. I wonder if they've been inflated by shil buyers.
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In a case like this, the relevant artist shouldn't just contact Etsy, they should Seek the identity of the seller and seek damages for breach of contract & require an account of profits from them. This isn't just a DCMA situation - its a situation where Etsy has paid out royalties that should be due to the original copyright holder.
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any hint to photo in shutter stock used? i saw the files on sale right now and cannot find any in ss. in case i will contact ss and ask to do something, or if not i will do the same, buy some images in ss, digitalize with some filters and resell as digital files...if a war is in act let's play the war game. i'm full of being fuckd up.
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Thanks for posting this Dakota. I discovered one of my files for sale (cropped and filtered). The seller had bought an EL so I actually wondered at first if this was an OK usage (I checked on the SS forum). I've notified Etsy and SS and my image is now no longer on sale.
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How do you know these are downloaded from Shutterstock? They might have been bought elsewhere which allows resale as POD, such as CanStockPhoto and Fotolia
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How do you know these are downloaded from Shutterstock? They might have been bought elsewhere which allows resale as POD, such as CanStockPhoto and Fotolia
But isn't that different from this example? This is not a printing service, you just get the digital image and then you can print it if you want. Or not.
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How do you know these are downloaded from Shutterstock? They might have been bought elsewhere which allows resale as POD, such as CanStockPhoto and Fotolia
But isn't that different from this example? This is not a printing service, you just get the digital image and then you can print it if you want. Or not.
That would be considered re-selling, which is usually not allowed.
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The problem with Etsy is a familiar one: you have to figure out how to drive people to your shop. I have a shop on Etsy, and get one or two small sales a month; it's worth doing but just barely. I don't do any social media advertising (hate doing that), and as a result I get very few daily views; usually 1 to 5 if that. The really successful people on Etsy are the crafters; they'll complain if they get less than several hundred views a day.
Another problem with Etsy, is that it's a hive of illegal stuff being ripped-off and sold. Just do a search for Disney or Star Wars and you'll see what I mean.
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There are plenty of Shutterstock files on there. I would not of made such a statement without evidence. Reverse image search does not work on many of the files because the images are flipped, cropped or placed in frames. Look deeper by searching for subjects. Some might come from other agencies.
Zero of those images have been created by that designer. What I think she has done is bought a basic subscription, maybe tweaked a few, made B&W and watched the money roll in. What is crazy is she is not even offering prints just downloads!
Here is one example:
https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/484188644/black-cockatoo-print-large-wall-art?ref=shop_home_active_53 (https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/484188644/black-cockatoo-print-large-wall-art?ref=shop_home_active_53)
https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/black-cockatoo-on-perch-112430822?src=6DHsHj2--35Vj0HMQgQD7g-1-14 (https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/black-cockatoo-on-perch-112430822?src=6DHsHj2--35Vj0HMQgQD7g-1-14)
Can everyone do that? Buy a basic subscription to Shutterstock, download hundreds of images and resell as digital files Etsy, no printing involved, sounds like a great plan to get rich!
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There are plenty of Shutterstock files on there. I would not of made such a statement without evidence. Reverse image search does not work on many of the files because the images are flipped, cropped or placed in frames. Look deeper by searching for subjects. Some might come from other agencies.
Zero of those images have been created by that designer. What I think she has done is bought a basic subscription, maybe tweaked a few, made B&W and watched the money roll in. What is crazy is she is not even offering prints just downloads!
Here is one example:
https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/484188644/black-cockatoo-print-large-wall-art?ref=shop_home_active_53 (https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/484188644/black-cockatoo-print-large-wall-art?ref=shop_home_active_53)
https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/black-cockatoo-on-perch-112430822?src=6DHsHj2--35Vj0HMQgQD7g-1-14 (https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/black-cockatoo-on-perch-112430822?src=6DHsHj2--35Vj0HMQgQD7g-1-14)
Can everyone do that? Buy a basic subscription to Shutterstock, download hundreds of images and resell as digital files Etsy, no printing involved, sounds like a great plan to get rich!
Utterly shameful. Thanks for exposing that scam.
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Etsy copyright infringement seems to be a chronic problem for others as well and there are not many good options. Read this
https://artlawjournal.com/etsy-copyright-infringement/
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Etsy used to be a unique site selling hand-made items. Then it become a Big Company in search of Growth and began steadily destroying its identity and becoming just another site trying to sell everything to everybody and not caring about any ethical nonsense.
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She might not even be a real person. Just a fake identity as a front for whoever set this system. That's what I'd do if I were to set up an unethical thing like this.
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That's amazing that they could earn that sort of money on those images. Does anyone else here sell on etsy?
No. Because they don't sell.
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Thank you for warning us.
I hope Shutterstock goes after them as well with whatever legal means they have.
This is truly frightening.
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Investors are also not happy with Etsy's rampant copyright violations
http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2015/05/17/368456.htm (http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2015/05/17/368456.htm)
Etsy Sued by Investors Alleging Firm Hid Products’ Trademark Risks
"Etsy Inc. is facing fraud claims from investors after allegations that millions of items sold through its online crafts and specialty wares marketplace likely violate trademarks.
Investors filed a proposed class action against the Brooklyn, New York-based company and its executives after an analyst said this week that more than 5 percent of about 40 million listings may be counterfeit or otherwise infringe well- known brands."
Update: the investors lost the suit in 2017
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Any know if those "sales" figures are really accurate....seem remarkably ie unfeasibly high to me
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Just found another etsy member reselling images, here's an example with one of my photos
https://www.etsy.com/de/listing/517053752/beach-photography-aerial-people-on-the#item-reporter%3Ffrom_reg%3D2%26joined%3D1
(https://www.etsy.com/de/listing/517053752/beach-photography-aerial-people-on-the#item-reporter%3Ffrom_reg%3D2%26joined%3D1)
My original:
https://www.dreamstime.com/stock-images-beach-scene-aerial-view-image20325324
(https://www.dreamstime.com/stock-images-beach-scene-aerial-view-image20325324)
That seller has had 3385 sales and I bet none of the photos is her own work
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Sadly there are tons of these shops reselling digital downloads from micro sites.
I looked at another one of her beach prints:
https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/506655694/beach-photography-aerial-people-on-the?ref=related-7 (https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/506655694/beach-photography-aerial-people-on-the?ref=related-7)
on Shutterstock,
https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/aerial-view-above-ocean-sea-beach-482253985 (https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/aerial-view-above-ocean-sea-beach-482253985)
Just found another etsy member reselling images, here's an example with one of my photos
https://www.etsy.com/de/listing/517053752/beach-photography-aerial-people-on-the#item-reporter%3Ffrom_reg%3D2%26joined%3D1
(https://www.etsy.com/de/listing/517053752/beach-photography-aerial-people-on-the#item-reporter%3Ffrom_reg%3D2%26joined%3D1)
My original:
https://www.dreamstime.com/stock-images-beach-scene-aerial-view-image20325324
(https://www.dreamstime.com/stock-images-beach-scene-aerial-view-image20325324)
That seller has had 3385 sales and I bet none of the photos is her own work
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Sadly there are tons of these shops reselling digital downloads from micro sites.
I looked at another one of her beach prints:
https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/506655694/beach-photography-aerial-people-on-the?ref=related-7 (https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/506655694/beach-photography-aerial-people-on-the?ref=related-7)
on Shutterstock,
https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/aerial-view-above-ocean-sea-beach-482253985 (https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/aerial-view-above-ocean-sea-beach-482253985)
Hold on now, she (or he) zoomed in, surely that's entirely OK and a new work! ;)
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I've just had discussion with a shop owner on Etsy and she claims that Getty agreed with the resale of modified files purchased with Extended Licence. If this is truth, then perhaps Getty is to blame in this case.
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This is why I'm opted out of EL's. (Except fotolia because I can't but it is set at $100)
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I've just had discussion with a shop owner on Etsy and she claims that Getty agreed with the resale of modified files purchased with Extended Licence. If this is truth, then perhaps Getty is to blame in this case.
If you got a 'products for resale' EL, then indeed she is covered.
'Enhanced licences' on SS also allow for 'merchandise'.
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I've just had discussion with a shop owner on Etsy and she claims that Getty agreed with the resale of modified files purchased with Extended Licence. If this is truth, then perhaps Getty is to blame in this case.
If you got a 'products for resale' EL, then indeed she is covered.
'Enhanced licences' on SS also allow for 'merchandise'.
but not the resale of digital files.
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Just found another etsy member reselling images, here's an example with one of my photos
https://www.etsy.com/de/listing/517053752/beach-photography-aerial-people-on-the#item-reporter%3Ffrom_reg%3D2%26joined%3D1
(https://www.etsy.com/de/listing/517053752/beach-photography-aerial-people-on-the#item-reporter%3Ffrom_reg%3D2%26joined%3D1)
My original:
https://www.dreamstime.com/stock-images-beach-scene-aerial-view-image20325324
(https://www.dreamstime.com/stock-images-beach-scene-aerial-view-image20325324)
That seller has had 3385 sales and I bet none of the photos is her own work
Very surprised to see that etsy took the file down just hours after I claimed my copyright to the file. Wonders happen!
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Very surprised to see that etsy took the file down just hours after I claimed my copyright to the file. Wonders happen!
Good to hear! They're facing lots of problems with this stuff right now so it's good to see they're on top of things.
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I've just had discussion with a shop owner on Etsy and she claims that Getty agreed with the resale of modified files purchased with Extended Licence. If this is truth, then perhaps Getty is to blame in this case.
If you got a 'products for resale' EL, then indeed she is covered.
'Enhanced licences' on SS also allow for 'merchandise'.
but not the resale of digital files.
True, I forgot it's digital files she's selling. I guess the author would have to contact Getty to see if there was a deal.
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Related question: assuming we are not exclusive in any agency, can we sell our videos and photos on Etsy? Does anyone do it here?
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk
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can we sell our videos and photos on Etsy?
Why wouldn't you be able to?
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Related question: assuming we are not exclusive in any agency, can we sell our videos and photos on Etsy? Does anyone do it here?
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk
Yes you can, I never have though.
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Related question: assuming we are not exclusive in any agency, can we sell our videos and photos on Etsy? Does anyone do it here?
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk
Why would you, without any license restrictions?
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Yes. I sell digital downloads on Etsy.
There is a big market on many sites for components for scrapbooking and digital art. People want digital downloads.
Here is an example of what I am talking about. https://www.etsy.com/shop/MagicalRealityDesign (https://www.etsy.com/shop/MagicalRealityDesign) (This is not my shop, but one I purchase from when I am not making my own graphics.)
I use a lot of my own stock images to create graphics for children's books and the like, but I also sell them to designers.
This is my shop. https://www.etsy.com/shop/LivingstonAtLarge (https://www.etsy.com/shop/LivingstonAtLarge)
Not much in it at the moment because I am remodeling my house, hence, not much in sales, but when I have it full, it does okay.
Now that I see the LILAxLOLA shop I might consider giving them a run for their money on that one. I have a couple hundred thousand images to work with that are ALL mine AND my daughter owns an online printing company.
Ginger
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Related question: assuming we are not exclusive in any agency, can we sell our videos and photos on Etsy? Does anyone do it here?
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk
Why would you, without any license restrictions?
Most have somewhat restricted TOU's. (Terms of Use) Especially about reselling as digital downloads. So, you can use for physical projects with limited sales but not repackage and sell as your own digital downloads in some other downloadable package.
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Related question: assuming we are not exclusive in any agency, can we sell our videos and photos on Etsy? Does anyone do it here?
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk
Why would you, without any license restrictions?
Most have somewhat restricted TOU's. (Terms of Use) Especially about reselling as digital downloads. So, you can use for physical projects with limited sales but not repackage and sell as your own digital downloads in some other downloadable package.
I dunno. Seems risky somehow.
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Here is an example of what I am talking about. https://www.etsy.com/shop/MagicalRealityDesign (https://www.etsy.com/shop/MagicalRealityDesign) (This is not my shop, but one I purchase from when I am not making my own graphics.)
That's crazy. It's like a mix of Creative Market (upload whatever you want) and design from the 80s. What do people do with these "digital downloads". And why would they go to Etsy to find them, when Etsy is supposed to be crafts and physical goods?
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I've just had discussion with a shop owner on Etsy and she claims that Getty agreed with the resale of modified files purchased with Extended Licence. If this is truth, then perhaps Getty is to blame in this case.
What does 'modified' mean?
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That's crazy. It's like a mix of Creative Market (upload whatever you want) and design from the 80s. What do people do with these "digital downloads". And why would they go to Etsy to find them, when Etsy is supposed to be crafts and physical goods?
People use them in both scrapbooking (Which I know very little about) and very exotic composite digital art pieces (Which I know a lot about). It's a fine art genre that is VERY popular for all kinds of decor. Also, for me, I use them in art compositions for children's books.
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I've just had discussion with a shop owner on Etsy and she claims that Getty agreed with the resale of modified files purchased with Extended Licence. If this is truth, then perhaps Getty is to blame in this case.
What does 'modified' mean?
I got a similar mail from the owner of the etsy shop that sold my image (and was taken down after my complaint) Here's what she wrote and my reply regarding "modification":
Hello Oliver,
My name is Amy and I am from Hello Gorgeous Wall Art on Etsy. I received a notice from Etsy on September 20th that a claim has been filed against me that states I am infringing on your intellectual property by selling digital art using a photograph unauthorized by you.
I am writing in response to your claim. I have legally purchased and licensed the photograph from iStock under the appropriate enhanced license and I am in full legal compliance to sell my file on Etsy.
[url]http://www.istockphoto.com/photo/grand-canary-beach-aerial-view-gm497549897-41841904
[/url] ([url]http://www.istockphoto.com/photo/grand-canary-beach-aerial-view-gm497549897-41841904
[/url])
When I started my shop on Etsy I had a lengthy conversation with iStock. I told them I was interested in selling digital art on Etsy and asked them specifically which imagery can I use to create my files and which ones can’t I use. I specifically asked them how can I use the imagery and how am I not allowed to use it. I asked if I can sell my created files that include imagery on Etsy or on any print-on-demand website. I asked that if I am, in fact, allowed to sell them on print-on-demand websites, what do I need to adhere to regarding using any imagery to create my files. And lastly, I asked how can I be assured I am not going to breach any license agreement or find myself in any legal claims made by the original artists or photographers.
iStock informed me that I can use any image on iStock as long as:
1. It comes specifically from the Essentials collection.
2. It is purchased under the extended license.
3. The image is modified and that I have the Photoshop files to show how it was modified.
I was told that as long as all three of the conditions above are met, I can sell my modified art file as a digital product on Etsy and can also use the art as print-on-demand art for selling on print-on-demand websites.
The original image I purchased in reference to your claim is from the Essentials collection, I purchased it under the enhanced license, and I have modified it to create a my new file. I have met all three conditions listed above and I am legally in compliance.
It states very clearly in the Content License Agreement Section 4c that no image can be resold “as a standalone file (meaning just the content file itself, separate from the project or end use)”. It was explained to me that “standalone” means just the purchased file itself, that I cannot purchase the file, even if under the extended license, and resell it “as is”, untouched. They clearly stated that as long as I change the original image and modify it in a new file (a project), it is no longer the original standalone file. They added that as long as I have the Photoshop file to show that the original image is modified, then I am legally allowed to sell my file.
I do not use, purchase, or sell images from a site called Dreamstime and I had never heard of that website until now.
After consulting with my legal council regarding this claim, we are confident that this claim made against me on Etsy will be retracted as soon as possible.
And further, that you inform your representative that his assumptions are incorrect and may possibly damage my reputation and business.
And I assume that he will further post a retraction on the Micro Site Group forum where he originally mis-stated that I do not have the legal right to sell my image.
Amy Peterson
My reply:
"Hi Amy,
you might have purchased an EL for my work on stock and I believe you that you acted in good faith, when you put that file on etsy.
But let me explain why you are still infringing on my intellectual property:
I sell Extended Licenses of this file quite often on dreamstime, since it is offered as physical wall art by major companies like Bed, Bath and Beyond and others. They purchase an EL for every canvas print they sell.
Now, dreamstime has a reverse search feature (like google images), so I can see where my images are in use. This is how I found my image in your etsy shop. This goes to show, that you didn’t modify my image in a way that makes it a standalone work. Actually, as far as I remember, you just cropped it and made it a tad brighter. This is not enough to offer digital downloads, neither by the TOS of istock nor by etsy’s Intellectual Property Policy. If it was legal, it could easily destroy istock's business as well as the businesses of thousands of photographers.
Rest assured, if you continue to sell my file I can and will inform every single photographer whose works you are selling and in an instant you’ll receive tons of DMCA complaints and your shop will be closed faster than you can spell „copyright“
Regards
Oliver"
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I am selling on Etsy too, but not just my stock JPGs. As a newborn photographer, I know parents love it if I make "dream photos" of their baby, like a baby sleeping on a toadstool in a forest (you love it or you hate it, I know). What I sell on Etsy are the LAYERED TIF files of my finished dream photos, without the baby of course. So other baby photographers in the world might buy a "template", cut out their client's baby and put it in one of my layered TIF's. As I am far too busy for extensive marketing on Etsy, my files are not selling very well (about 350 dollars/year), but as I am making the templates for my own customers, there is no extra work involved except putting them on Etsy. Every file I sell is accompanied by a very clear TOU in which is explained that the EMPTY template can never be sold, but it can be used for as many babies or other composites as they want.
To LivingstoneAtLarge and other sellers on Etsy I ask : the reason why I would not sell stock images in large numbers at Etsy is that you have to pay money (about 20 cents) per file, which would be quite a lot of money if I would do that with thousands of images. Is this also true for larger quantities? And if yes, then I understand why you sell them as "collections"!
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You did the right thing. Why should shops on Etsy benefit financially from your hard work. It's not like they have even left the comfort of their home to get to a special location to get the shot. I like how she threatens you with big talk about talking to her lawyer!
All these frauds are doing is reselling digital files and watching the money roll in. The top seller is making $1000 a day!
The reason they only sell digital files is because it's so easy for their buyers to pop down to Walmart and get a print made. A print which is dirt cheap. Sending a physical print is a lot of trouble.
Let me state there are tons of these shops on Etsy reselling digital files from micro agencies. Someone high up in Shutterstock and Istock needs to take action because it's costing them millions of dollars in lost revenue.
All these shops need to be exposed. Why should they get away with it while hard working photographers struggle.
I've just had discussion with a shop owner on Etsy and she claims that Getty agreed with the resale of modified files purchased with Extended Licence. If this is truth, then perhaps Getty is to blame in this case.
What does 'modified' mean?
I got a similar mail from the owner of the etsy shop that sold my image (and was taken down after my complaint) Here's what she wrote and my reply regarding "modification":
Hello Oliver,
My name is Amy and I am from Hello Gorgeous Wall Art on Etsy. I received a notice from Etsy on September 20th that a claim has been filed against me that states I am infringing on your intellectual property by selling digital art using a photograph unauthorized by you.
I am writing in response to your claim. I have legally purchased and licensed the photograph from iStock under the appropriate enhanced license and I am in full legal compliance to sell my file on Etsy.
[url]http://www.istockphoto.com/photo/grand-canary-beach-aerial-view-gm497549897-41841904
[/url] ([url]http://www.istockphoto.com/photo/grand-canary-beach-aerial-view-gm497549897-41841904
[/url])
When I started my shop on Etsy I had a lengthy conversation with iStock. I told them I was interested in selling digital art on Etsy and asked them specifically which imagery can I use to create my files and which ones can’t I use. I specifically asked them how can I use the imagery and how am I not allowed to use it. I asked if I can sell my created files that include imagery on Etsy or on any print-on-demand website. I asked that if I am, in fact, allowed to sell them on print-on-demand websites, what do I need to adhere to regarding using any imagery to create my files. And lastly, I asked how can I be assured I am not going to breach any license agreement or find myself in any legal claims made by the original artists or photographers.
iStock informed me that I can use any image on iStock as long as:
1. It comes specifically from the Essentials collection.
2. It is purchased under the extended license.
3. The image is modified and that I have the Photoshop files to show how it was modified.
I was told that as long as all three of the conditions above are met, I can sell my modified art file as a digital product on Etsy and can also use the art as print-on-demand art for selling on print-on-demand websites.
The original image I purchased in reference to your claim is from the Essentials collection, I purchased it under the enhanced license, and I have modified it to create a my new file. I have met all three conditions listed above and I am legally in compliance.
It states very clearly in the Content License Agreement Section 4c that no image can be resold “as a standalone file (meaning just the content file itself, separate from the project or end use)”. It was explained to me that “standalone” means just the purchased file itself, that I cannot purchase the file, even if under the extended license, and resell it “as is”, untouched. They clearly stated that as long as I change the original image and modify it in a new file (a project), it is no longer the original standalone file. They added that as long as I have the Photoshop file to show that the original image is modified, then I am legally allowed to sell my file.
I do not use, purchase, or sell images from a site called Dreamstime and I had never heard of that website until now.
After consulting with my legal council regarding this claim, we are confident that this claim made against me on Etsy will be retracted as soon as possible.
And further, that you inform your representative that his assumptions are incorrect and may possibly damage my reputation and business.
And I assume that he will further post a retraction on the Micro Site Group forum where he originally mis-stated that I do not have the legal right to sell my image.
Amy Peterson
My reply:
"Hi Amy,
you might have purchased an EL for my work on stock and I believe you that you acted in good faith, when you put that file on etsy.
But let me explain why you are still infringing on my intellectual property:
I sell Extended Licenses of this file quite often on dreamstime, since it is offered as physical wall art by major companies like Bed, Bath and Beyond and others. They purchase an EL for every canvas print they sell.
Now, dreamstime has a reverse search feature (like google images), so I can see where my images are in use. This is how I found my image in your etsy shop. This goes to show, that you didn’t modify my image in a way that makes it a standalone work. Actually, as far as I remember, you just cropped it and made it a tad brighter. This is not enough to offer digital downloads, neither by the TOS of istock nor by etsy’s Intellectual Property Policy. If it was legal, it could easily destroy istock's business as well as the businesses of thousands of photographers.
Rest assured, if you continue to sell my file I can and will inform every single photographer whose works you are selling and in an instant you’ll receive tons of DMCA complaints and your shop will be closed faster than you can spell „copyright“
Regards
Oliver"
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Hello Oliver,
My name is Amy and I am from Hello Gorgeous Wall Art on Etsy. I received a notice from Etsy on September 20th that a claim has been filed against me that states I am infringing on your intellectual property by selling digital art using a photograph unauthorized by you.
I am writing in response to your claim. I have legally purchased and licensed the photograph from iStock under the appropriate enhanced license and I am in full legal compliance to sell my file on Etsy.
[url]http://www.istockphoto.com/photo/grand-canary-beach-aerial-view-gm497549897-41841904
[/url] ([url]http://www.istockphoto.com/photo/grand-canary-beach-aerial-view-gm497549897-41841904
[/url])
When I started my shop on Etsy I had a lengthy conversation with iStock. I told them I was interested in selling digital art on Etsy and asked them specifically which imagery can I use to create my files and which ones can’t I use. I specifically asked them how can I use the imagery and how am I not allowed to use it. I asked if I can sell my created files that include imagery on Etsy or on any print-on-demand website. I asked that if I am, in fact, allowed to sell them on print-on-demand websites, what do I need to adhere to regarding using any imagery to create my files. And lastly, I asked how can I be assured I am not going to breach any license agreement or find myself in any legal claims made by the original artists or photographers.
iStock informed me that I can use any image on iStock as long as:
1. It comes specifically from the Essentials collection.
2. It is purchased under the extended license.
3. The image is modified and that I have the Photoshop files to show how it was modified.
I was told that as long as all three of the conditions above are met, I can sell my modified art file as a digital product on Etsy and can also use the art as print-on-demand art for selling on print-on-demand websites.
The original image I purchased in reference to your claim is from the Essentials collection, I purchased it under the enhanced license, and I have modified it to create a my new file. I have met all three conditions listed above and I am legally in compliance.
It states very clearly in the Content License Agreement Section 4c that no image can be resold “as a standalone file (meaning just the content file itself, separate from the project or end use)”. It was explained to me that “standalone” means just the purchased file itself, that I cannot purchase the file, even if under the extended license, and resell it “as is”, untouched. They clearly stated that as long as I change the original image and modify it in a new file (a project), it is no longer the original standalone file. They added that as long as I have the Photoshop file to show that the original image is modified, then I am legally allowed to sell my file.
I do not use, purchase, or sell images from a site called Dreamstime and I had never heard of that website until now.
After consulting with my legal council regarding this claim, we are confident that this claim made against me on Etsy will be retracted as soon as possible.
And further, that you inform your representative that his assumptions are incorrect and may possibly damage my reputation and business.
And I assume that he will further post a retraction on the Micro Site Group forum where he originally mis-stated that I do not have the legal right to sell my image.
Amy Peterson
My reply:
"Hi Amy,
you might have purchased an EL for my work on stock and I believe you that you acted in good faith, when you put that file on etsy.
But let me explain why you are still infringing on my intellectual property:
I sell Extended Licenses of this file quite often on dreamstime, since it is offered as physical wall art by major companies like Bed, Bath and Beyond and others. They purchase an EL for every canvas print they sell.
Now, dreamstime has a reverse search feature (like google images), so I can see where my images are in use. This is how I found my image in your etsy shop. This goes to show, that you didn’t modify my image in a way that makes it a standalone work. Actually, as far as I remember, you just cropped it and made it a tad brighter. This is not enough to offer digital downloads, neither by the TOS of istock nor by etsy’s Intellectual Property Policy. If it was legal, it could easily destroy istock's business as well as the businesses of thousands of photographers.
Rest assured, if you continue to sell my file I can and will inform every single photographer whose works you are selling and in an instant you’ll receive tons of DMCA complaints and your shop will be closed faster than you can spell „copyright“
Regards
Oliver"
These people are really playing with fire. She had a lengthy conversation with iStock? I wonder if she could produce the record (e.g. emails) of this "conversation" so everyone could see what was really written, and the name of the person that she "conversed with".
Those people should realize that if in breach taking down a shop would be the least of their financial problems. How about compensation plus punitive damages?
BTW the link doesn't work.
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I've just had discussion with a shop owner on Etsy and she claims that Getty agreed with the resale of modified files purchased with Extended Licence. If this is truth, then perhaps Getty is to blame in this case.
What does 'modified' mean?
I got a similar mail from the owner of the etsy shop that sold my image (and was taken down after my complaint) Here's what she wrote and my reply regarding "modification":
Hello Oliver,
When I started my shop on Etsy I had a lengthy conversation with iStock.
...
iStock informed me that I can use any image on iStock as long as:
1. It comes specifically from the Essentials collection.
2. It is purchased under the extended license.
3. The image is modified and that I have the Photoshop files to show how it was modified.
I was told that as long as all three of the conditions above are met, I can sell my modified art file as a digital product on Etsy and can also use the art as print-on-demand art for selling on print-on-demand websites.
Amy Peterson
My reply:
"Hi Amy,
you might have purchased an EL for my work on stock and I believe you that you acted in good faith, when you put that file on etsy.
But let me explain why you are still infringing on my intellectual property:
... ... This goes to show, that you didn’t modify my image in a way that makes it a standalone work. Actually, as far as I remember, you just cropped it and made it a tad brighter. This is not enough to offer digital downloads, neither by the TOS of istock nor by etsy’s Intellectual Property Policy. If it was legal, it could easily destroy istock's business as well as the businesses of thousands of photographers.
...
Have you contacted iS about this? Interesting to hear what they have to say.
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I don't think you have to quote the entire post every time... :P
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I don't think you have to quote the entire post every time... :P
True :-[
I'll snip.
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Wow, that's crazy. And who (well we know who) would put out the money for an EL on the off chance they might sell a few on Etsy?
http://www.istockphoto.com/legal/license-agreement#restricted-use (http://www.istockphoto.com/legal/license-agreement#restricted-use)
BTW, I can't find any terms for extended licenses on iStock. All I can find is "what you can't do, unless you buy an EL". It doesn't actually specify the rights granted by an extended license. But the products for resale license says:
"No Products for Resale. Unless you purchase an extended license, you may not use content in connection with any goods or services intended for resale or distribution where the primary value lies in the content itself including, without limitation, cards, stationery items, paper products, calendars, apparel items, posters (printed on paper, canvas, or any other media), DVDs, mobile applications or other items for resale, license or other distribution for profit. This includes "on demand" products (meaning products in which content is selected by a third party for customization on such product on a made-to-order basis), including, without limitation, postcards, mugs, t-shirts, posters and other items (this includes the sale of products through custom designed websites, as well as sites such as zazzle.com and cafepress.com)"
So, if we flip it around, "You may use content in connection with any goods or services intended for resale or distribution where the primary value lies in the content itself including, without limitation, cards, stationery items, paper products, calendars, apparel items, posters (printed on paper, canvas, or any other media), DVDs, mobile applications or other items for resale, license or other distribution for profit." The way it reads is that there is another good, or item or service, that the content is "attached" or "used in connection with". Not that the content itself is the primary item, modified or not.
It also does not specify or mention (or therefore allow) "digital downloads", modified or not. There is nothing in the license about "modified".
My opinion.
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http://www.istockphoto.com/gb/help/licenses (http://www.istockphoto.com/gb/help/licenses)
this has a breakdown of what is allowed with links to more details
ETA
http://www.istockphoto.com/gb/legal/license-agreement (http://www.istockphoto.com/gb/legal/license-agreement)
"3.c.
No Standalone File Use. You may not use content in any way that allows others to download, extract, or redistribute content as a standalone file (meaning just the content file itself, separate from the project or end use)."
In my opinion that definitely means that she can't offer digital downloads even with an EL.
I can't see any court agreeing that a crop, or brightness adjustment, or rotation will be enough of change to make it a new project.
Also anyone familiar with Etsy's terms? would she have signed off saying she owns the copyright to any photos she is selling? Can't be bothered to look it up myself as my work isn't effected in this case.
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Yes that "plain English" page just links back to the page I linked.
And this use would definitely not be allowed under those descriptions.
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BTW, I can't find any terms for extended licenses on iStock. All I can find is "what you can't do, unless you buy an EL". It doesn't actually specify the rights granted by an extended license.
Huh? It's easier to find EL info in iS than most other sites, IMO.
Every single file has a link to a link sic! to this page:
http://www.istockphoto.com/gb/help/licenses (http://www.istockphoto.com/gb/help/licenses) which might be where you got the info you posted above.
Directly underneath that paragraph is the info about what you can do with an EL:
(http://www.lizworld.com/ELs.jpg)
Nothing about directly selling the digital files with or without unspecified modifications.
BTW, IME ELs on iS for the last couple of years have been almost non-existent. IIRC I got one last year and none so far this. In the past, I had an average of at least one a month.
Still, I don't want them being resold digitally.
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Sorry Sue, updated my previous post with the reference to standalone digital files.
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Yes, you're just posting what I posted. There is nothing that states directly what you _can_ do with an EL. It states what you _can't_ do without one, which isn't the same.
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Yes, you're just posting what I posted. There is nothing that states directly what you _can_ do with an EL. It states what you _can't_ do without one, which isn't the same.
Huh?
Why isn't:
"Extended Licence:
Up to 100,000 postcards, greeting cards or other cards, stationery, stickers and paper products;
Up to 10,000 posters, calendars or other similar publications, mugs or mousepads; or
Up to 2,000 t-shirts, sweatshirts, or other apparel, games, toys, entertainment goods like CDs or DVDs, framed or mounted artwork.
Unlimited for electronic products such as mobile applications and electronic templates."
What you can do with an EL?
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Found in TERMS OF USE of Etsy :
A. Responsibility for Your Content. You understand that you are solely responsible for Your Content. You represent that you have all necessary rights to Your Content and that you’re not infringing or violating any third party’s rights by posting it.
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Sorry Sue, updated my previous post with the reference to standalone digital files.
We crossed while posting, but I was replying more to Sean's point about not seeing what you can do with ELs.
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Ah yes, I see what you're saying. And if that is the only definition, this is definitely prohibited, unless the claim "electronic product"?
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Also anyone familiar with Etsy's terms? would she have signed off saying she owns the copyright to any photos she is selling? Can't be bothered to look it up myself as my work isn't effected in this case.
Well, they have an IP policy in place. They sound pretty serious about it.
https://www.etsy.com/uk/legal/ip/ (https://www.etsy.com/uk/legal/ip/)
and they have TOS releasing them from a liability for copyright violations by users. That of course does not cover the case when they know about an infringement, so I expect that they would act promptly upon notification. Which apparently they do.
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*****
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[url]http://www.istockphoto.com/gb/legal/license-agreement[/url] ([url]http://www.istockphoto.com/gb/legal/license-agreement[/url])
"3.c.
No Standalone File Use. You may not use content in any way that allows others to download, extract, or redistribute content as a standalone file (meaning just the content file itself, separate from the project or end use)."
And funnily enough this was one of the reasons I only ever bought one iS file to use while teaching: I didn't have the knowledge of how to prevent my department members from extracting the image from a Powerpoint presentation. (Probably it can be done, I just didn't know how).
But also presumably many people use files in such as powerpoints etc and give them to employees to give presentations.
And obviously files can almost always be easily "downloaded or extracted as standalone files" from websites, so again, an unpoliceable restriction.
But still, these examples aren't the same as selling digital files online.
I hope we can get a reply from iS.
However, as I've posted before, I've had several very different answers to the same question from iS support: it seems to depend who answers your question.
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If the buyer of the ELs is correct and Getty gave permission to use the files as they have done then any answer from getty is unlikely to illicit the whole truth and nothing but the truth, should they know what that is.
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On Etsy you could file for copyright infringement through their forms, they take down the listing but then the person could counter a notice of copyright infringement and then if you don't sue him in ten days he is allowed to upload the same listing again.
That said if that person receives several infringement notices they could take down his account.
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If the buyer of the ELs is correct and Getty gave permission to use the files as they have done then any answer from getty is unlikely to illicit the whole truth and nothing but the truth, should they know what that is.
True, but presumably if she was given that answer from a Getty employee, she's in the clear, even if the answer turns out to be counter to Getty policy as stated in their terms as outlined above (if they indeed know what that means).
Not sure where Getty or the file author could go from there (sue the employee?)
Anyone see any of their own files there which were NOT licensed from iS (with an EL)?
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The whole EL thing is nonsense because the terms are deliberately vague and there's no enforcement. 100,000 prints - excuse me, I meant "paper products" - and no one is bothering to count.
Basically you give them the money, they give you the file, you do anything you want with it, and if a photographer doesn't like it, he can either jump the DMCA hoops, or pound sand. The new, corporate, "growth-oriented" Etsy couldn't care less.
It's nice to know that this cr@p is being promoted by IS and SS - because I got out of both a year ago. I wonder though if Alamy is "safe" in this regard.
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It's nice to know that this cr@p is being promoted by IS and SS - because I got out of both a year ago.
Makes no difference, if anyone is doing it, it affects us all, to some degree, as buyers often satisfice, in all areas of commerce.
I wonder though if Alamy is "safe" in this regard.
We can't know until we see a use and question it whether any agency is 'safe' - it seems like many enter into individual arrangements which are outside the terms and conditions which can be seen by the public.
From time to time on Alamy's forum, 'special arrangements' are discovered and noted, as with iS (and maybe, for all I know, SS).
I doubt if any are immune from chasing up whatever cents they can muster.
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If there's a Getty spokesman who told the seller he could resell digital files, I think he told that to more than one seller ...
I already found two almost identical shops, in different countries :
https://www.etsy.com/shop/SisiAndSeb (https://www.etsy.com/shop/SisiAndSeb)
https://www.etsy.com/shop/DeziDeziDesigns?ref=l2-shopheader-name (https://www.etsy.com/shop/DeziDeziDesigns?ref=l2-shopheader-name)
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There's a ton of shops on Etsy selling the same or similar image files. It's really quite discouraging when you start searching about the site and find the same illegal stuff over and over again in different shops.
Re: sales figures, the OP's mentioned shop, LILAxLOLA is not making $1000 a day, far from it. LILAxLOLA had about 25 sales in the past 24 hours (just do screen shots of her #of sales at different times and do the math). She appears to be selling these at $7.26 each, which would make her gross for the day at $181.50. A pretty good sum, but far from $1000. But that's gross: you then have to subtract listing fees, credit card processing fees, and Etsy's own transaction fees; these can add up to quite a bit. She also offers a 30% discount for purchasing 3 or more downloads, which would lower her gross sales total even further. She may have offered other discounts at other times; most of the digital shops on Etsy do this. Because of all these factors, there's no way to know exactly how much she's actually making, but I'd be surprised if she was making more than $100 (net) a day. That's still pretty good money, though I'm pretty sure she's the exception to the rule. I've looked at least 100 different Etsy shops that sell only digital downloads, and the vast majority of them have nowhere near the sales volume that LILAxLOLA has.
Since she doesn't have to create her own art, she probably spends most of her time doing advertising promotion for her shop; I'd love to know how she does that. That's the real secret to success on Etsy: figuring out how to drive buyers to your shop. Sounds familiar, doesn't it.
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You are totally onto something. There seem to be alot of shops selling the same images and same subjects.
Now it's possible it is the same person or just alot of people copying each other. Nearly all these shops sell cute baby pictures of animals, beach sences, trees, abstract art etc
If there's a Getty spokesman who told the seller he could resell digital files, I think he told that to more than one seller ...
I already found two almost identical shops, in different countries :
https://www.etsy.com/shop/SisiAndSeb (https://www.etsy.com/shop/SisiAndSeb)
https://www.etsy.com/shop/DeziDeziDesigns?ref=l2-shopheader-name (https://www.etsy.com/shop/DeziDeziDesigns?ref=l2-shopheader-name)
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Etsy's FAQ - Terms of Use seems to exclude the use of "stock photos". Seems this could apply even if an extended license was bought.
"You are using your own photographs -- not stock photos, artistic renderings, or photos used by other sellers or sites. Read more about using appropriate photographs in this Help article."
https://www.etsy.com/legal/sellers/#allowed?ref=us_sell (https://www.etsy.com/legal/sellers/#allowed?ref=us_sell)
"Using commercial stock images or other’s images of items similar to your own is not permitted. Etsy defines stock images as any image produced by individuals who are not involved in your shop for items they have made. We also restrict the use of digitally produced, mocked-up, or rendered images that aren’t of the finished product."
https://www.etsy.com/help/article/6128 (https://www.etsy.com/help/article/6128)
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Good job Trek!
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Etsy's FAQ - Terms of Use seems to exclude the use of "stock photos". Seems this could apply even if an extended license was bought.
"You are using your own photographs -- not stock photos, artistic renderings, or photos used by other sellers or sites. Read more about using appropriate photographs in this Help article."
https://www.etsy.com/legal/sellers/#allowed?ref=us_sell (https://www.etsy.com/legal/sellers/#allowed?ref=us_sell)
"Using commercial stock images or other’s images of items similar to your own is not permitted. Etsy defines stock images as any image produced by individuals who are not involved in your shop for items they have made. We also restrict the use of digitally produced, mocked-up, or rendered images that aren’t of the finished product."
https://www.etsy.com/help/article/6128 (https://www.etsy.com/help/article/6128)
That simply relates to how items are displayed in a shop in that the images representing the items for sale must be of the actual items for sale and not photos or drawings of something similar.
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You are totally onto something. There seem to be alot of shops selling the same images and same subjects.
Now it's possible it is the same person or just alot of people copying each other. Nearly all these shops sell cute baby pictures of animals, beach sences, trees, abstract art etc
If there's a Getty spokesman who told the seller he could resell digital files, I think he told that to more than one seller ...
I already found two almost identical shops, in different countries :
https://www.etsy.com/shop/SisiAndSeb (https://www.etsy.com/shop/SisiAndSeb)
https://www.etsy.com/shop/DeziDeziDesigns?ref=l2-shopheader-name (https://www.etsy.com/shop/DeziDeziDesigns?ref=l2-shopheader-name)
Similar design and similar products in dozens of shops. Is this some kind of franchise operation?
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This is just the final straw for me. I've already gotten out of microstock except for Alamy (and GL, which seems to be dead). If I figure out that Alamy is doing this too, I'll leave them as well.
These days I sell photos on FAA - not often, but when I do, I might make 30 bucks. If SS sells your photo to one of these Etsy parasites you might get $30 for an EL, and think wow that's great - but it's a one time payment. You get absolutely nothing for any additional sales on Etsy. Plus, the Etsy seller can easily undercut your price on FAA for your own photo.
I'm disgusted with microstock agencies, I'm disgusted with Etsy. They've become slimeballs.
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LilaxLola can be found on Pinterest and Twitter, of course. Interesting.
I wonder what else they're doing for promotion because not that much comes up in the Twitter search.
I really appreciate the effort you guys put into these threads.
I was halfway thinking of doing some stock (I have been doing artsy wildlife stuff and some fashion) but jeez it just seems to be a mess.
Interesting how so many people not in the business think you can still make some big killing as a photographer.
I guess my biggest beef is all these photographers out there "selling the dream".
I swear I'll never buy another "inspiring tutorial" again. Pfft.
Once you know the basics, it's up to you to find your own schtick and make your own
mistakes I guess.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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You are totally onto something. There seem to be alot of shops selling the same images and same subjects.
Now it's possible it is the same person or just alot of people copying each other. Nearly all these shops sell cute baby pictures of animals, beach sences, trees, abstract art etc
type "inhale exhale" into the search bar and you will see many identical images
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Hi everyone,
I've been following this conversation and I just wanted to let you all know that I just reported 250 shops to Etsy who sell digital downloads that have prohibited stock imagery in them.
If you would like the list yourself so you can also report them all to Etsy, please ping me and I'd be happy to email that list to you. If enough people report these shops, Etsy takes the listings and/or shops down.
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Perhaps Shutterstock contributors could learn from this: you can make $1k a day on Etsy, so why bother with Shutterstock?
Easy for that person to sell on Etsy cause those images are not theirs. So no responsibility there. No worries of someone else stealing and making a buck.
Kind of like, its easy to trash a public place but when someone does it to your home, watch out.
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Couldn't some of those shops legitimately belong to the photographers who own the copyright?
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Hi everyone,
I've been following this conversation and I just wanted to let you all know that I just reported 250 shops to Etsy who sell digital downloads that have prohibited stock imagery in them.
If you would like the list yourself so you can also report them all to Etsy, please ping me and I'd be happy to email that list to you. If enough people report these shops, Etsy takes the listings and/or shops down.
I hope you did not report me, as my templates are all mine. How did you check whether they owned the copyright or not? 250 shops sounds a whole lot of checking out (congrats if you did!).
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Hi everyone,
I've been following this conversation and I just wanted to let you all know that I just reported 250 shops to Etsy who sell digital downloads that have prohibited stock imagery in them.
If you would like the list yourself so you can also report them all to Etsy, please ping me and I'd be happy to email that list to you. If enough people report these shops, Etsy takes the listings and/or shops down.
Yes, did you check to see so that the stores contain images from several stock accounts? Not just one.
There's nothing more annoying than having your legitimate store taken down on false grounds.
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You did the right thing.
I welcome the reporting of these scam shops. There are hundreds of these shops reselling digital files, they are not even selling prints. They don't own the copyright to any of those pictures. The reason they sell so well is they have chosen the most commercially appealing images from stock libraries.
Why should these scammers who stay at home make big bucks of your hard work. None have even lifted a camera to take a picture!
Hi everyone,
I've been following this conversation and I just wanted to let you all know that I just reported 250 shops to Etsy who sell digital downloads that have prohibited stock imagery in them.
If you would like the list yourself so you can also report them all to Etsy, please ping me and I'd be happy to email that list to you. If enough people report these shops, Etsy takes the listings and/or shops down.
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Why should these scammers who stay at home make big bucks of your hard work. None have even lifted a camera to take a picture!
They shouldn't. But checking 250 shops against stock libraries and making sure there are pictures from several accounts would take a very long time.
That's why we're asking if she checked, or just reported any store selling digital files...
Plenty of people who sell on stock sites also sell on Etsy, their own images, perfectly legitimate. Getting trigger happy and reporting anyone selling digital downloads is not the way to go.
But if she checked all of these stores and made sure the images were gathered from several stock sources, then absolutely.
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I also sell my drawings on stock sites, on etsy and on print on demand sites.
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Hi everyone,
I've been following this conversation and I just wanted to let you all know that I just reported 250 shops to Etsy who sell digital downloads that have prohibited stock imagery in them.
If you would like the list yourself so you can also report them all to Etsy, please ping me and I'd be happy to email that list to you. If enough people report these shops, Etsy takes the listings and/or shops down.
Nice work. But unless Etsy changes their policies, won't 250 new pirate shops show up to replace the ones taken down today?
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I took a look, nothing of mine is being resold, but then I noticed this, People selling downloads direct on Etsy? I didn't look at the costs to see what I could get for something of mine, but doesn't that seem risky since anyone can pay for a download, get a perfect file and start reselling it? Oh right, most of these people are probably just stealing the work to start with. >:(
Anyone selling downloads on Etsy?
Downloading a Digital Item
If you have an Etsy account, after your purchase you’ll see a View your files link which goes to the Downloads page. Here, you can download all the files associated with your order.
Downloads are available once your payment is confirmed. If you paid with PayPal or a credit card on Etsy, confirmation might take a few minutes.
We’ll also send you a download notification email separate from any transaction notification emails you receive from Etsy and/or PayPal.
If you're unsure if you've purchased a Digital Item, you can always go back to the listing page. If it is a digital download, you should see an "Instant Download" message on the images for the item.
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I took a look, nothing of mine is being resold, but then I noticed this, People selling downloads direct on Etsy? I didn't look at the costs to see what I could get for something of mine, but doesn't that seem risky since anyone can pay for a download, get a perfect file and start reselling it?
Anyone can pay for a download and start reselling it anywhere. It probably happens every minute of every hour every day.
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Hi everyone,
I've been following this conversation and I just wanted to let you all know that I just reported 250 shops to Etsy who sell digital downloads that have prohibited stock imagery in them.
If you would like the list yourself so you can also report them all to Etsy, please ping me and I'd be happy to email that list to you. If enough people report these shops, Etsy takes the listings and/or shops down.
And you checked each and every shop to make sure they are selling the work of others? Or have you carelessly reported them all?
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To LivingstoneAtLarge and other sellers on Etsy I ask : the reason why I would not sell stock images in large numbers at Etsy is that you have to pay money (about 20 cents) per file, which would be quite a lot of money if I would do that with thousands of images. Is this also true for larger quantities? And if yes, then I understand why you sell them as "collections"!
It's .20 per listing.....and you can make, say, 100 copies available, or a 1000, whatever for that same .20.
Then there is a fee when it sells. (3.5%)
So, if I sell a digital file for $7 on the first one I have lost the .20 listing cost and the 3.5% sale cost (.25). I clear $6.55 on the first one and $6.75 on all the rest I listed for that .20 fee.
The listings stay active for 4 months. If I sold even one download it would be better than selling it 19x on SS. (And let's face it. I'm not going to sell a plain old rabbit 19x on SS or DT.)
As to the downloading and reselling by others. Apparently they're doing that anyway from SS and DT. The likelihood of me catching them is slim. I might as well make as much as I can per file wherever I can. (IMHO)
For me the real time and effort (besides taking the shot, which I already have a couple hundred thousand sitting around doing nothing) is the artwork, editing, resizing for easy printing, uploading. Which does take a fair amount of time, once.
$100 a day is still much better than anything I am doing with the agencies I am with......for rabbits and llamas and flowers. ::)
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$100 a day is still much better than anything I am doing with the agencies I am with......for rabbits and llamas and flowers. ::)
It says you have 147 sales, so you're making far from $100 per day then?
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It says you have 147 sales, so you're making far from $100 per day then?
No. I never said I was making $100 a day. I was going off the posts that said they (The Lola site) are making a $1000 a day that got whittled down to $100 a day.
I have only a few things up. What I am saying is that if I followed their business model with a lot of my own images that I have sitting around, I might. I'm considering it for sure.
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Thanks for the post. I too found two of my images in relatively new store and have informed Etsy.