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« on: May 26, 2011, 11:59 »
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I'm planning a European trip next month (3 weeks). Will be in Italy, France, Germany and Switzerland. Is it worth taking city scapes and "travel" style photos for microstock (wondering if I should bring my 5d Mark II along). My North American travel photos don't sell that well so I am considering just bringing a point and shoot for the memories...

Thanks,


« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2011, 14:14 »
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Nah __ not worth lugging all that gear around and risking loss, theft, etc. Just chill out and enoy it and you'll be better company for whoever you are with too. Serious photography is a fairly lonely pursuit.

microstockphoto.co.uk

« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2011, 18:05 »
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travel photography in Europe is my core business

I agree return per image is very low, but if you take a lot of pictures - including unplanned shots while waiting at airports, stations, etc - it may be worth it

Why not UK as well while travelling in Europe?
 

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2011, 18:26 »
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Why not UK as well while travelling in Europe?
Sssssssh - we don't need the competition; at least, that's what SuperSean says  ;)

« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2011, 19:03 »
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I'd go nuts without my SLR on a overseas trip.
Photography hasn't yet turned into a work like chore for me and taking photos is one of the reasons I like to travel. 

Point and shoot annoy me

« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2011, 20:47 »
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I have a blog post about travel photography and microstock, you may find it helpful:
http://blog.elenaphoto.com/?p=110

« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2011, 02:23 »
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Looks like the perfect excuse for a new camera.  I wouldn't want to lug a 5d Mark II around all the time but you will be guaranteed to miss some great photos with a compact.  Why not get one of the micro 4/3 cameras or one of the more compact APS sensor cameras?  If you take lots of photos and put them on alamy, it might take a few years but you should see a profit.

« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2011, 03:25 »
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Why not UK as well while travelling in Europe?
 

I would have thought four countries in three weeks is already way too many!

If you don't take a decent camera you will regret it - don't you enjoy photography?

« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2011, 11:35 »
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"Why not UK as well while travelling in Europe?"

Some other time maybe. I would have liked to visit Greece as well. I'm of Italian decent and my family in Italy have never seen my kids. One of the three weeks will be spent visiting family. We'll be driving about 3000km in the 3 weeks.

My main concern for the camaera is theft. We will be staying at several small hotels where security probably isn't a big priority.  I suppose I could dust off the old Canon 300d, 6 mega pixel camera :-(

I heard that European photos fair better at some sites such as Fotolia and Alamy. My North American photos don't do so well although I do get some sales on Dreamstime.

I have a couple more weeks to decide - really excited about the trip though.

thanks for the replies.

fotorob

  • I am a professional stock photographer

« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2011, 02:42 »
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Let's put it this way: There are enough photographers living in every major European city who contribute to microstock sites. So it will be hard to find shoots that haven't been taken, but you sare can give it a try.

« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2011, 02:55 »
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"Why not UK as well while travelling in Europe?"

Some other time maybe. I would have liked to visit Greece as well. I'm of Italian decent and my family in Italy have never seen my kids. One of the three weeks will be spent visiting family. We'll be driving about 3000km in the 3 weeks.

My main concern for the camaera is theft. We will be staying at several small hotels where security probably isn't a big priority.  I suppose I could dust off the old Canon 300d, 6 mega pixel camera :-(

I heard that European photos fair better at some sites such as Fotolia and Alamy. My North American photos don't do so well although I do get some sales on Dreamstime.

I have a couple more weeks to decide - really excited about the trip though.

thanks for the replies.

I'm Italian, I've been in many hotels in Italy, France, Greece etc. I was never stolen anything.
Please stop with those old platitudes, thank you.

« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2011, 04:57 »
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Travel insurance is essential, not only for theft but if you get sick, injured etc.

My last trip to Europe was Spain, portugal and England there was only one time I was worried about theft. (Evening photos in Porto on my own, a guy after money for the train) I get more worried in my own city. (maybe because you hear what happens).

I'm still going through photos from that trip, I doubt it would ever turn a profit but it was a family holiday which I would have taken photos anyway.

I'd recommend a camera bag that doesn't look like a camera bag and don't let it out of your site for a second.

« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2011, 05:16 »
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Yes, just use common sense and your gear should be as safe as at home - never had any problem in hotels anywhere, but take care in tourist areas and crowds, and don't leave anything visible in the car when parked.

I've even managed to forget my camera bag twice - on a vaporetto in Venice and a taxi in Budapest - both times it was returned intact.

I think though that if you're spending a week with family, you could easily take the other two weeks just exploring Italy... but whatever, have a good time.

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2011, 07:32 »
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One thing which is increasing throughout Europe is apparently theft of lenses from DSLR bodies. An iStock buddy had exactly that happen to him in ?St Petersburg? - first and until recently the only time I'd heard of this. Last month, I was contacted (in my capacity as camera club secretary) to see if our members would take part in a BBC Three programme ("The Real Hustle") highlighting just this issue, as it's becoming common.
I guess the people who do this aren't the ones who make me a bit nervous almost everywhere by obviously 'clocking' my camera and maybe muttering something like 'nice camera' in the passing.

« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2011, 08:00 »
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I'm italian too and my husband works in an hotel, be sure that there aren't more thieves here than in any other place...I've travelled a lot in Europe and in in South America too...and I can tell that my country is one of the most beautiful country in the world.Two years ago I met an american photographer in my street, he was taking pictures from the roof of his car, so I invited him in my house beacause here there's a better landscape.
Spain is very very beautiful too...expecially Andalusia. I don't love Greece too much.
Well, if you come here you are welcome...without thieves  ;)

« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2011, 08:11 »
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5D Mark II.... never leave home without it. 

Moonb007

  • Architect, Photographer, Dreamer
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2011, 11:55 »
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Travel photography is a huge chunk of my sales too.  I would bring it for sure, most hotels now of days are safe and even if you are worried a lot have a in room safe to store things.


grp_photo

« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2011, 12:01 »
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Let's put it this way: There are enough photographers living in every major European city who contribute to microstock sites. So it will be hard to find shoots that haven't been taken, but you sare can give it a try.
+1 enjoy your vacations and do some great conceptual shots at home. The work you have afterwards isn't it worth the return you have from travel-images nowadays. To make travel-photography serious you have to go alone and work very hard on every day then it may work but is not something you can do aside nowadays.
Your equipment can be stolen everywhere but I have had my brand new DSLR stolen in Italy in a Hotel five years ago, platitudes aside.

« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2011, 12:10 »
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millions travel, a few have trouble with theft.

we left a camera in a taxi in istanbul when we left near the Suleymanie - 2 hrs later, after visting several mosques, the driver tracked us down to return it

travel is a tough field, but most of my images are from travels; it's harder to take pictures on a hectic schedule. but definitely worth doing

steve

« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2011, 12:11 »
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+2.  Enjoy the trip, take pics for fun.  Plenty of people live there taking pics.

« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2011, 13:53 »
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I think the greatest danger in southern Europe is bag theft in crowded places rather than from hotels. A few years ago I was in a tourist information office in Nice when a couple of young lads breezed in and, without even breaking stride, grabbed my day-sack from the floor and walked out with it. Fortunately my girlfriend saw them and when I gave chase they quickly dropped it and ran off. They probably weren't in the office for more than 2-3 seconds in total.

A friend was on a business trip and was waiting at Barcelona airport. He had his luggage on a trolley in front of him whilst he viewed the Departures board where a number of flights had been delayed. A bloke tapped him on his left shoulder and started speaking loudly in Spanish whilst gesticuating wildly at the board. When my friend turned towards him to explain he didn't speak Spanish ... someone nipped in from the right and stole his laptop from on top of his luggage. It was a couple of minutes before he realised what had happened by which time the thieves were well away.

Crime usually happens when you least expect it.

« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2011, 14:09 »
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I think the greatest danger in southern Europe is bag theft in crowded places rather than from hotels. A few years ago I was in a tourist information office in Nice when a couple of young lads breezed in and, without even breaking stride, grabbed my day-sack from the floor and walked out with it. Fortunately my girlfriend saw them and when I gave chase they quickly dropped it and ran off. They probably weren't in the office for more than 2-3 seconds in total.

A friend was on a business trip and was waiting at Barcelona airport. He had his luggage on a trolley in front of him whilst he viewed the Departures board where a number of flights had been delayed. A bloke tapped him on his left shoulder and started speaking loudly in Spanish whilst gesticuating wildly at the board. When my friend turned towards him to explain he didn't speak Spanish ... someone nipped in from the right and stole his laptop from on top of his luggage. It was a couple of minutes before he realised what had happened by which time the thieves were well away.

Crime usually happens when you least expect it.

Do you really think that in southern europe there is more crime that in USA? When we watch tv everybody tell us about USA crime, you can belive in it or not. I belive only in my experience. I'm 34 years old, italian, and I have never been robben (Oh, really, one time when I was a child, in Sicily ). I went in Spain, Portugal, Greece, France, South Italy (I live in North East) and never, never I had a theft.
So, I think that something bad can happen everywhere if you are unlucky but usually don't happen anything and you see wonderful places...safely.
But...do you know that we don't live in caves?  ;D :D :D :D

p.s UK is a great place too, wonderful country.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2011, 14:13 by Ellerslie »

« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2011, 15:15 »
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not taking the camera because of possible theft is ABSURD! if we think of that we wouldnt leave home and even went to supermarket or other place, you can get robbed everywhere, it is life guys.. as we know there are many people travelling the world and are safe, it is LIFE!

« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2011, 15:22 »
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Do you really think that in southern europe there is more crime that in USA? When we watch tv everybody tell us about USA crime, you can belive in it or not. I belive only in my experience.

Yes. Having spent a lot of time in southern Europe (I lived in Monaco for 5 months for example) and also many times touring the US I do think there is far more tourist-related petty crime in certain southern European hot-spots. Barcelona is virtually the European capital of street crime against tourists __ try Googling it if you want to know more.

« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2011, 15:33 »
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not taking the camera because of possible theft is ABSURD! if we think of that we wouldnt leave home and even went to supermarket or other place, you can get robbed everywhere, it is life guys.. as we know there are many people travelling the world and are safe, it is LIFE!

+1

@ Gost, I belive in your words and when I speak I'm ironic (of course, I don't belive that you think that we live in caves  ;)). I'm really interested in your opinion about my country and about Europe. ...It so fun for me this thread. I think exactly like Luissantos: if we think at worst we don't leave home, in every part of the world  :D ;) :)
« Last Edit: May 29, 2011, 15:36 by Ellerslie »

microstockphoto.co.uk

« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2011, 16:16 »
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not taking the camera because of possible theft is ABSURD! if we think of that we wouldnt leave home and even went to supermarket or other place, you can get robbed everywhere, it is life guys.. as we know there are many people travelling the world and are safe, it is LIFE!

+1

@ Gost, I belive in your words and when I speak I'm ironic (of course, I don't belive that you think that we live in caves  ;)). I'm really interested in your opinion about my country and about Europe. ...It so fun for me this thread. I think exactly like Luissantos: if we think at worst we don't leave home, in every part of the world  :D ;) :)

I'm Italian as well, and yes, I feel usually safer when I travel in northern/central Europe (UK, Germany, Scandinavia, ...) than in Italy or Spain, especially when I travel alone in unknown towns. Sometimes I feel too much 'observed' by people in Italy. But maybe it's just an impression - nothing bad ever happened to me anywhere luckily, and I always travel with my camera.

« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2011, 16:16 »
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as we know every city has their worst parts, poorest areas and hours that you cannot walk alone and so on, etc there isnt a place where you are 100% safe.. we dont live in a perfect world, if so we wouldnt get a cut every year by agencies..

if we are going to think about robbery, why not talk about car accident or a bus running over you.. and then all the diseases we can get.. getting off topic yep but to say that we cannot think of all that all day or we would live alone and on a cave perhaps :)
« Last Edit: May 29, 2011, 16:19 by luissantos84 »


« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2011, 18:02 »
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I'm planning a European trip next month (3 weeks). Will be in Italy, France, Germany and Switzerland. Is it worth taking city scapes and "travel" style photos for microstock (wondering if I should bring my 5d Mark II along). My North American travel photos don't sell that well so I am considering just bringing a point and shoot for the memories...


Traveling for photography & traveling for vacation are very different experiences. The travel style photos which sell usually don't just happen, they're planned around times that usually don't coincide with usual holiday activities such as sleeping in or going out for drinks in the evenings. As others have said, if theft is a worry, just get insurance.

« Reply #28 on: May 29, 2011, 20:48 »
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wow - lots of responses here. I wasn't suggesting Italy and France are riskier than the US (or Canada). I don't always bring my equipment on North American travel either. I always keep my equipment with me when I travel (I wouldn't be able to do that on this trip). I enjoy taking photos at night and always plan my shoots. The sight seeing with the kids would be during the day and I wouldn't even use my camera during midday because of the harsh lighting. I've been to Italy several times - last time was a couple of months ago for a short trip. I did bring my equipment then but didn't get to use it at all. This is different - we would be out sight seeing during the day. The equipment and luggage would remain either in in the car or in a hotel.  I wouldn't leave the equipment in the car here in Canada, even in a relatively safe city such as Ottawa. I had a work vehicle broken into just a couple of years ago. I'm a bit paranoid now.

Thank you for all the responses. I think I've made up my mind. Looking on istock, all the sites I will be visiting seem already very over saturated with stock images. I would just be producing images similar to those that are already there and my images would get buried somewhere on the last pages. I'm not going to bring the equipment.

John

« Reply #29 on: May 29, 2011, 23:09 »
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It's hard to see how can one get a decent return on investment traveling in expensive european cities like London or Stockholm.

The most dangerous place in my opinion is still south america and especially Colombia, Peru, and Brazil.
Plenty of people there who would kill somebody for a DSLR.

« Reply #30 on: May 30, 2011, 01:48 »
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The most dangerous place in my opinion is still south america and especially Colombia, Peru, and Brazil.
Plenty of people there who would kill somebody for a DSLR.


Agreed __ and you can add Panama to that list too. Totally different level of criminality.

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #31 on: May 30, 2011, 02:34 »
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It's hard to see how can one get a decent return on investment traveling in expensive european cities like London or Stockholm.
The point is that if you're going to be in a place anyway, why not take photos when you're there? We're not talking about making a trip especially.
@OP: a lot depends on how tolerant your travelling companions are to your plans. My sister is extremely intolerant, but I still managed to shoot  a photo that sold for $500/300 to me on our last trip, as well as some which have sold 'a few times' so far on iStock, with lots of images on both sites. Couldn't have done that if I'd left my camera at home.
Anyway, I always take my camera on trips, even day trips: they're by far my best chance, as I don't have a studio or models. YMMV.

« Reply #32 on: May 30, 2011, 04:29 »
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It's hard to see how can one get a decent return on investment traveling in expensive european cities like London or Stockholm.

The most dangerous place in my opinion is still south america and especially Colombia, Peru, and Brazil.
Plenty of people there who would kill somebody for a DSLR.

Yeah best not to travel anywhere. Its expensive and full of killers just waiting for you to turn up with things they can rob.

« Reply #33 on: May 30, 2011, 05:29 »
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...and there's a terrible swarm of killer bees and, somewhere they eat people  :D ::)

« Reply #34 on: May 30, 2011, 05:32 »
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...have you never watch a Michael Moore film? When I speaks about the politics of terror...may be...is it true? ::)

« Reply #35 on: May 30, 2011, 07:03 »
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It's hard to see how can one get a decent return on investment traveling in expensive european cities like London or Stockholm.

The most dangerous place in my opinion is still south america and especially Colombia, Peru, and Brazil.
Plenty of people there who would kill somebody for a DSLR.

Yeah best not to travel anywhere. Its expensive and full of killers just waiting for you to turn up with things they can rob.

I was travelling in Scotland one time and a pair of young tourists (country withheld) were complaining that Scotland was a dumb place because they had A4 paper not foolscap. Life must be pretty annoying if you have an attitude like that.

I've never been to South America,I heard some great and some not so great stories relating to security.

« Reply #36 on: May 30, 2011, 08:25 »
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I've never been to South America,I heard some great and some not so great stories relating to security.

The scary thing is almost all south americans after they finished telling me how good south america is they recommend
me to not even think walking alone with my camera on my neck in their own cities.

Said that, never had troubles so far nor robberies or aggressions.


« Reply #37 on: May 30, 2011, 17:23 »
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My wife and I are traveling to Zurich, Rome, Venice, and Milan later this month. I will be leaving my Canon 1ds Mark III at home, not because of theft danger but because I agree with one of the above postings that to vacation with someone else is not to photograph with any serious intent. Way too intense and time-consuming. I'll be toting my 12 megapixel IS point and shoot in a nice secure front pocket alongside my wallet. I won't even try to compete in the stock field but I may see a shot opportunity that may fit in with some composite image I'm working on. My wife has a few minutes patience at such times and I won't delay the tour group with whom we'll be gawking.

« Reply #38 on: May 30, 2011, 23:08 »
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even on tours there are opportunities

first, there's the free models of "tourists looking at Taj Mahal"

i usually trail the group, keeping an eye on the guide, but it lets me take more time finding the images i want.  evening sound & light shows are particularly useful this way -- you can usually wander the ruins with only a coupla other like minded photographers

another handy trick for any market is to walk behind the stalls, looking out over the sellers at the customers; often a good way to start conversations and end up with more candids of the vendors after you take the required "here i am holding my prize zucchini shot " of them

« Reply #39 on: May 30, 2011, 23:16 »
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From my experience it's often a matter of authority :

Trying to hide and keeping a low profile only got me in troubles and unwanted attentions.
Working like a professional street photographer instead will still bring unwanted attention but nobody will also make a fuss about it, the worst it can happen is some local camera freak asking you boring technical questions, but in most of the cases if people recognize you're a photographer they are happy about it and let you take good photos or simply say no and you shoot the next interest subject.

So, how to be recognized as Pro ? Ironic but in my case all it takes is having a huge battery pack and a big flash, don't ask me why but that's probably what people instantly think is a pro shooter instead of yet another tourist with a DSLR.

Thinking about it, there's a flood of tourists with their canon rebel or entry level nikons, but none of them have external flash and certainly not battery packs, and finally they don't look around like a photographer nor they are firm in replying to complaints nor they engage in any "shoot and run" activity as i do :)

« Reply #40 on: May 30, 2011, 23:19 »
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Yeah best not to travel anywhere. Its expensive and full of killers just waiting for you to turn up with things they can rob.

Traveled in more than 50 countries so far and still alive, thanks.

« Reply #41 on: May 31, 2011, 00:48 »
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Yeah best not to travel anywhere. Its expensive and full of killers just waiting for you to turn up with things they can rob.

Traveled in more than 50 countries so far and still alive, thanks.

If that's true then it makes your comments about the people who would kill you for your DSLR in Peru, Brazil or Colombia even sadder.

« Reply #42 on: May 31, 2011, 01:12 »
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There are dead tourists almost every day in south america, but maybe you only stick to the safe touristic areas ?

« Reply #43 on: May 31, 2011, 02:40 »
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There are dead tourists almost every day in south america, but maybe you only stick to the safe touristic areas ?


Is that an official statistic or something that just popped up in your head? I spent about 12 months in Latin America - including 3 months in Colombia, 2 in Peru and one in Brazil. Obviously there are dangerous parts of each country, but its no different to anywhere else in the world. Colombia in particular has a high homicide rate, but its mainly related to the drug trade, not tourists who have DSLRs.

If you want a better picture of how and why people die of non-natural causes there's always the US state department website. For example in Brazil (which receives the most visitors of any South American country) they only list 10 US citizens that have died of homicide between Oct 2002 to December 2010 (58 deaths from other non-natural causes such as vehicle accidents, suicide & drowning). Compared to well over 600,000 US tourists each year to Brazil its not a particularly significant number.

http://travel.state.gov/law/family_issues/death/death_600.html

Anyhow... sorry for continuing this thread way off topic.

« Reply #44 on: May 31, 2011, 03:28 »
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There are dead tourists almost every day in south america, but maybe you only stick to the safe touristic areas ?


Is that an official statistic or something that just popped up in your head? I spent about 12 months in Latin America - including 3 months in Colombia, 2 in Peru and one in Brazil. Obviously there are dangerous parts of each country, but its no different to anywhere else in the world. Colombia in particular has a high homicide rate, but its mainly related to the drug trade, not tourists who have DSLRs.

If you want a better picture of how and why people die of non-natural causes there's always the US state department website. For example in Brazil (which receives the most visitors of any South American country) they only list 10 US citizens that have died of homicide between Oct 2002 to December 2010 (58 deaths from other non-natural causes such as vehicle accidents, suicide & drowning). Compared to well over 600,000 US tourists each year to Brazil its not a particularly significant number.

http://travel.state.gov/law/family_issues/death/death_600.html

Anyhow... sorry for continuing this thread way off topic.



++++++++++++++++



Really, I thought that it was very sad if a Brasilian or a south american read this treadh and read that he can kill someone for few dollars. Terrible. Sometimes would be a nice thing to put themselves in the shoes of others.  ::)

« Reply #45 on: June 01, 2011, 00:02 »
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well i'm not interested in stirring up a rant about violent crime in south america.
suffice to say when i was in colombia the headlines in the news where about a guy being beheaded, and i met so many people warning me about thefts and robberies, especially the locals themselves.

maybe Holgs was shooting with a point&shoot, but to me is not easy to keep a low profile with a big zoom and big flash and despite i never had troubles everybody was always staring at me and often foaming from their mouth looking at my Nikon, a few taxi drivers called me "loco" for walking around alone like i did in suburbs and favelas ...

« Reply #46 on: June 01, 2011, 05:16 »
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Last April i decided to spend some days in Barcelona. I buy a airoplane passage to 27 to 30 of May.
Last week in the TV i saw some news of riots and police charging people that occupy the Catalunya square.

And I read in the internet that i pay special attention in Barcelona for robbery and crime (special in crowded places)

Guess what... the bus let the tourist in Catalunya square when we get out of the aeroport. The square as full of smelly people, rastafari, tribal and people considered "normal". First thing i do when i get from the bus... mingle with the crowd and take some shoot of the square occupation with my DSLR.
Next day Barcelona FC win the champions and people get crazy in the streets with lots of party and drunk people party. Shakira was in town for a concert (more people crazy and drinking)

Problems that i have during this days... 0. Always with my DSLR in my hand.
You will find some poor bustard that need money for food or drug all over the world. The bad luck is if they see you as a potential fix for there problems, but this can append in your street or home town.

Life is the primary cause of death ;) But death is the only thin that we all experience sooner or latter. Dont think much in death because you will not live life.

I live in Portugal and i never had any problems with my DSLR. A very safe place. And i never had problems in Portugal, Spain; France; Netherlands; Italy; germany; Switzerland; Republic Dominican; Tunis; Marrocos and all the places i visit.

My opinion is, take the machine and enjoy the trip and get family photos. If you get lucky you will take some photos for stock that help you pay the trip. In the worst case scenario you will get some great family pictures ;)

I think the greatest danger in southern Europe is bag theft in crowded places rather than from hotels. A few years ago I was in a tourist information office in Nice when a couple of young lads breezed in and, without even breaking stride, grabbed my day-sack from the floor and walked out with it. Fortunately my girlfriend saw them and when I gave chase they quickly dropped it and ran off. They probably weren't in the office for more than 2-3 seconds in total.

A friend was on a business trip and was waiting at Barcelona airport. He had his luggage on a trolley in front of him whilst he viewed the Departures board where a number of flights had been delayed. A bloke tapped him on his left shoulder and started speaking loudly in Spanish whilst gesticuating wildly at the board. When my friend turned towards him to explain he didn't speak Spanish ... someone nipped in from the right and stole his laptop from on top of his luggage. It was a couple of minutes before he realised what had happened by which time the thieves were well away.

Crime usually happens when you least expect it.


 

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