MicrostockGroup
Microstock Photography Forum - General => General Stock Discussion => Topic started by: lucato on January 15, 2012, 04:08
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Hi folks, I have read a lot of threads here with some advices about quitting the iStock exclusivity, but these threads don't mention how are the things doing after the move made. So, I want to hear the experiences from members that have quitted the iStock exclusivity and started to work with other agencies. I want to hear your experiences, sites you've submitted, if you're making much more money than you're doing as exclusive at iStock, size of portfolios, best sellers sites, how long did you take to reach the same income you were doing as exclusive at iStock, are you making more, and so on.
Feel free to express any experiences. ;0)
I'm seriously considering to move on after this terrible earnings cut and drop sales in 2011 and after 9 years of "partnership" with iStock and I'll appreciate your help sharing your experiences after quitting the exclusivity there.
Thanks in advance.
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I think its a good idea, if people are willing to share such info.
I also think people would apreciate you sharing some of your own info.
Like:
Was the negative trend in all file types ?
How much have you been uploading ?
Are you in the PP program ?
Since you are a multimedia contributor is most of the drop in revenue because of going down a notch (or 2) in the royalty rate or just declining sales ?
Are you full or part time ?
Real numbers is always a nice bonus...
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I think its a good idea, if people are willing to share such info.
I also think people would apreciate you sharing some of your own info.
Real numbers is always a nice bonus...
He has done. See here;
http://www.istockphoto.com/forum_messages.php?threadid=338999&page=4 (http://www.istockphoto.com/forum_messages.php?threadid=338999&page=4)
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Welcome Lucato. Looks like all the exclusives will soon be here.
I am making one last push with uploading as much as I can (although I am only a part timer) this year and if that doesnīt help, then I will have to consider making the jump :(
I really, really donīt want to. But with the total lack of communication from HQ on how they want to increase sales and grow the business, you begin to wonder if growing the business is still something they are interested in. And if nobody contacted the talent that just quit exclusivity to talk to them and see how to win them back, then the exclusives are apparently not a priority as they used to be. I am also amazed at the "attitude" some admins are allowed to show in public. The contributors are paying customers, obviously there is no boss in charge reminding them where their salaries come from.
Maybe they feel they have enough exclusive Getty content, so they donīt need our files to offer content other sites donīt have. I really donīt know.
Every photographer that I know has switched to generic model releases without the istock logo and some are even contacting models from older shootings to make them sign a new generic release. Others are going over their portfolio, adding proper keywords and descriptions into the EXIF data, because so many of us have become used to deepmeta.
I am still using the istock release, but for the next shooting Iīll follow their example.
istock is such a fantastic site with a great infrastructure for the digital entrepreneur, but it takes professional leadership and business vision to leverage itīs potential. And the team active behind the scenes is incredibly hard working. Totally dedicated people. It must be unbelievably frustrating to see the site lose itīs reputation like this.
Very sad times :(
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@gostwyck
Thanks for the reply and link. Anyway, I'll repeat such info here for those interested in numbers. :0) Have a nice weekend.
@aeonf
Yup, it is a good idea, but the topic subject isn't about my experiences as exclusive, it is about the experiences of who left the exclusivity at iStock. ;0) Anyway I'll answer your doubts and post the content of the link posted by Gostwyck.
Regarding your doubts:
Was the negative trend in all file types? YES;
How much have you been uploading? A LOT. Actual portfolio +7000 files;
Are you in the PP program? YES. It doesn't make tickles in the pocket results;
Since you are a multimedia contributor is most of the drop in revenue because of going down a notch (or 2) in the royalty rate or just declining sales? BOTH;
Are you full or part time ? FULL.
Regarding the posted thread at iStock:
Very disapointed with iStock!
2011 Earnings compared to 2010 :
-01% > Jan/11
-20% > Feb/11
-30% > Mar/11
-40% > Apr/11
-26% > May/11
-32% > Jun/11
-34% > Jul/11
-32% > Ago/11
-44% > Sep/11
-45% > Oct/11
-48% > Nov/11
-32% > Dec/11
Downloads: -34%
The latest years I used to grow 10%-15% per year, now in 2011 iStock with this RC cut decreased my monthly avarage earnings in 32% without growing any percentual in downloads, just going down too! If it was a huge cut in my pocket and for others too, I can imagine how much iStock saved! The new reviewd RC can be rereviwed for lower values for the next levels!
Now, lets get back to the 1st post. ;0)
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Maybe they feel they have enough exclusive Getty content, so they donīt need our files to offer content other sites donīt have. I really donīt know.
I think that's a very good point. They're probably going to kick you to the curb like a rabid dog, just like they kicked us indies in Sep 2010. I mean really, how much content do you really need, top 10 (or even more) photographers (Lise Gagne excluded) all have nearly identical shots, if half of them were to disappear, no one would even notice. Especially with some really awesome ports being transferred from Getty, creative stuff that was also superbly executed (the only problem with those ports is that they're all 100% TAC). And then there's a lot of average stuff of course and then there's Edstock :)
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the exclusives are apparently not a priority as they used to be.
That's for sure. They don't even seem to have any mechanism in hand to help people who want to become exclusive but are prevented by the bug, which they caused, resetting everyone's acceptance rate as 0.
I was particuarly sorry for the contributor a couple of days ago (can't find the post offhand) who said s/he'd deleted all their files off all the other agencies but now they can't become exclusive because of the bug.
An admin (Kelvin, I think) told them to contact Support; someone else chipped in and said they had already contacted Support, but there was nothing they could do.
I thought it was on either the Discussion or Help forum; maybe it's been moved or removed.
(If DM can continue to hold our AR, why can't admin do something for the handful of people who might want to become exclusive nowadays? Other than they don't really care and can continue to make <20% off their sales - profitability coming before bottom line. If I had deleted my files from elsewhere, I'd be spitting fire.
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Maybe they feel they have enough exclusive Getty content, so they donīt need our files to offer content other sites donīt have. I really donīt know.
That's exactly what I'm thinking. The people and images that made iStock great don't matter anymore, just like at StockXpert. If we did, they wouldn't be making the decisions they have been the past two years. It's profit that matters now.
I feel so bad for all the exclusives. These stories are becoming heartbreaking.
Try as I might to post objectively about IS, it's very difficult to do sometimes. Here's the facts:
My earnings in 2009 at StockXpert and IS were 29% of my annual income. In 2011, total annual earnings at both sites dropped to 22%. Actual revenue dropped 63%. Getty shut down StockXpert, removed our images for all partner sites except Thinkstock, and stripped the website bare. StockXpert no longer exists. The StockXpert collection now exists as the Hemera Collection without any attribution to the artists. It's a shame, because StockXpert was once one of the top five earners. Now the revenue is insignificant and I'm struggling to stay in business as a result of these losses.
Getty's track record doesn't give me any reason to hold out hope IS will ever improve. Maybe my experience with StockXpert has left me cynical, but I can't help but think they are actually trying to push out all the contributors so they can use the brand name iStockphoto for older Getty images they wholly own. They get 100% of the royalties for those images and minimal labor is involved. Moving Getty images onto iStock is cheap and efficient.
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Welcome Lucato. Looks like all the exclusives will soon be here.
Thanks. Yes, I thik so.
I am making one last push with uploading as much as I can (although I am only a part timer) this year and if that doesnīt help, then I will have to consider making the jump :(
Yes, the approval line is quite fast these days, but as you can see the numbers I posted above, the cut of 1/3 of my earnings is too much to sustain another year. That is why I started this thread to hear from others how they are doing, if it worths to take the risk and so on.
I really, really donīt want to. But with the total lack of communication from HQ on how they want to increase sales and grow the business, you begin to wonder if growing the business is still something they are interested in. And if nobody contacted the talent that just quit exclusivity to talk to them and see how to win them back, then the exclusives are apparently not a priority as they used to be. I am also amazed at the "attitude" some admins are allowed to show in public. The contributors are paying customers, obviously there is no boss in charge reminding them where their salaries come from.
Yes, I don't want too for several reasons, such as managing several sites, using time for it instead for for treating and taking new shots and so on, on the other hand, you avoid to have all eggs in one basket. Besides that, iStock has changed a lot, and the crown and diamond doesn`t seem to have any importance over there.
Maybe they feel they have enough exclusive Getty content, so they donīt need our files to offer content other sites donīt have. I really donīt know.
I have no idea too.
Every photographer that I know has switched to generic model releases without the istock logo and some are even contacting models from older shootings to make them sign a new generic release. Others are going over their portfolio, adding proper keywords and descriptions into the EXIF data, because so many of us have become used to deepmeta.
Actually I need to update few, when models signed for me I've asked to sign 2, one with logo and other without with the exact content. :0) Thanks for the tip.
istock is such a fantastic site with a great infrastructure for the digital entrepreneur, but it takes professional leadership and business vision to leverage itīs potential. And the team active behind the scenes is incredibly hard working. Totally dedicated people. It must be unbelievably frustrating to see the site lose itīs reputation like this.
Very sad times :(
I agree!
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I think its a good idea, if people are willing to share such info.
I also think people would apreciate you sharing some of your own info.
Have you even shared your partner's portfolio?
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Every photographer that I know has switched to generic model releases without the istock logo and some are even contacting models from older shootings to make them sign a new generic release. Others are going over their portfolio, adding proper keywords and descriptions into the EXIF data, because so many of us have become used to deepmeta.
Actually I need to update few, when models signed for me I've asked to sign 2, one with logo and other without with the exact content. :0) Thanks for the tip.
I had some model releases with the IS logo on them, and instead of contacting all of my models, I just replaced the IS information with my own in Photoshop. Much easier.
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And the team active behind the scenes is incredibly hard working. Totally dedicated people. It must be unbelievably frustrating to see the site lose itīs reputation like this.
I wonder how many of them are investigating an exit strategy.
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Every photographer that I know has switched to generic model releases without the istock logo and some are even contacting models from older shootings to make them sign a new generic release. Others are going over their portfolio, adding proper keywords and descriptions into the EXIF data, because so many of us have become used to deepmeta.
Actually I need to update few, when models signed for me I've asked to sign 2, one with logo and other without with the exact content. :0) Thanks for the tip.
I had some model releases with the IS logo on them, and instead of contacting all of my models, I just replaced the IS information with my own in Photoshop. Much easier.
Is that not potentially risky? You changed information they had signed to.
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And the team active behind the scenes is incredibly hard working. Totally dedicated people. It must be unbelievably frustrating to see the site lose itīs reputation like this.
I wonder how many of them are investigating an exit strategy.
Or have already exited. Have there been layoffs we don't know about?
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Uh, oh - changing a contract in Photoshop? I would be very careful with that. I am not a lawyer but I would never even remove an inkspot from a signed original conract.
No, never heard of any layoffs, all we ever is that istock is strong and healthy. Sadly it does not seem to visible in the monthly threads.
But there are some artists still doing extremly well. However, the ones I know do stock full time and upload a very large amount of files.
Perhaps the future on istock belongs to the full time artists preferably with assistants who can upload 200 files a month.
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Maybe they feel they have enough exclusive Getty content, so they donīt need our files to offer content other sites donīt have. I really donīt know.
I think that's a very good point. They're probably going to kick you to the curb like a rabid dog, just like they kicked us indies in Sep 2010. I mean really, how much content do you really need, top 10 (or even more) photographers (Lise Gagne excluded) all have nearly identical shots, if half of them were to disappear, no one would even notice. Especially with some really awesome ports being transferred from Getty, creative stuff that was also superbly executed (the only problem with those ports is that they're all 100% TAC). And then there's a lot of average stuff of course and then there's Edstock :)
Sorry this is happening to you and most other contributors at IS. I had a chat not too long ago with a very successful microstocker (they make a FT living at it) and she has all but stopped adding new images to Istock, instead focusing on other ventures such as studio work. I am wondering if Istock really cares about the exclusive defect rate or, for whatever reason, wants that to happen. Was the recent exclusive best match push their last minute desperate attempt at appeasing exclusives or was it a mistake? They don't seem to care (based solely on the opinions of those who have left exclusivity), there has been no "correspondence" that I know of between IS and exclusives asking them to reconsider....I would think that some of this would leak to the MSG boards, but I could be wrong. Something just doesn't smell right given that exclusives are the primary differentiators for IS. It's confusing and there isn't a "one voice" strategy that they are sharing (high level, of course) showing how contributors will help support and grow the business, particularly exclusives. I do feel for them, but even with the few disagreements I've had here in the past with some of you high enders I fell for you too. I do know what it takes to get a good image and all the cost, work etc that goes into it and when I hear your sales are dropping it makes me feel ill.
OK vent over.
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...Perhaps the future on istock belongs to the full time artists preferably with assistants who can upload 200 files a month.
With one of the perks of exclusivity being the time savings of not having to upload to multiple sites (which is debatably not a real perk when it takes longer to upload to istock than anywhere else), I would guess that a team of photographer and assistant(s) wouldn't be concerned with uploading to tons of sites. I wonder if there even are many (or any) teams working exclusively on istock.
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I think its a good idea, if people are willing to share such info.
I also think people would apreciate you sharing some of your own info.
Have you even shared your partner's portfolio?
No I haven't, but I do share my experience and pretty exact numbers every month...
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I really, really donīt want to. But with the total lack of communication from HQ on how they want to increase sales and grow the business, you begin to wonder if growing the business is still something they are interested in. And if nobody contacted the talent that just quit exclusivity to talk to them and see how to win them back, then the exclusives are apparently not a priority as they used to be. I am also amazed at the "attitude" some admins are allowed to show in public. The contributors are paying customers, obviously there is no boss in charge reminding them where their salaries come from.
I was talking to a top 10 exclusive a while back and my question was "does istock every contact you?" I asked this because you would think istock would have a team that manages the top 50 exclusives just like any company's sales force. The top 10 exclusive thought about the question and said "no, they have not ever contacted me outside of standard e-mails everyone else gets". That is crazy to me. I know sales reps who territory brings half the sales of this istock contributor who talk to a sales manager weekly and is flown to HQ for training/meetings yearly. It is a weird business! There is a wall up between istock and exclusive contributors that is a major problem for contributor relations. It has gotten worse with the appointment of the new "insert title here" lady. It is as though getty bought istock and doesn't have to worry about any other competition rising up against them in their minds.
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I feel so bad for all the exclusives. These stories are becoming heartbreaking.
And on the other hand, I feel bad for all the contributors who helped build istock up from the get-go (myself included-even before the club known as exclusivity was started), who helped Bruce get his $50 million, and went on to help Getty get to the number one slot, then got treated as if they didn't matter, whether they were exclusive, not exclusive, part-time, full-time, or whatever. A good image sells and makes money for Getty whether the contributor is part-time or full-time. It sells and makes money for Getty whether the contributor is exclusive or not. They sure didn't turn down the money all these years from part-time, non-exclusives, now did they?
I feel bad for all those aforementioned contributors who were even willing to take a measly 30% to begin with (or whatever the starting % was way back when), who had high hopes of continuing on to better their skills, upload even more, and grow right along with Getty. Unfortunately, that wasn't good enough for Getty, now was it?
I don't feel any more bad for exclusives than I do for all the rest of the contributors. Everybody made their own choices, and all but a select few now will be paying the price. >:(
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My earnings fell 20-30% my first month back at independent. I made up some ground in month 2. By month 3, my Shutterstock portfolio was getting hot, and many of my Dreamstime images started moving up in Level. This was the month that independence became more lucrative than exclusivity, and that never changed.
I don't contribute anywhere these days. My heart is no longer in microstock. But I still make good earnings per month with a static portfolio.
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Another opportunity recommend Briget (Stockcube)'s excellent blog where she details her experiences of dropping exclusivity in 2010. I am sure it will be very helpful :)
http://stockcube-stockcube.blogspot.com/ (http://stockcube-stockcube.blogspot.com/)
Sorry to hear it has come to this Lucato. Istock really can't afford to lose longtime exclusives like you. They don't seem to realize it though. Best of luck whatever you decide.
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Uh, oh - changing a contract in Photoshop? I would be very careful with that. I am not a lawyer but I would never even remove an inkspot from a signed original conract.
To be clear, I was only referring to the very top of the page with IS's logo and address, not the actual contract itself (any reference to IS within the contract was removed prior to signing). I had to do that, because the models involved never returned the new contract I sent them, and Dreamstime wouldn't accept the model release with IS's logo on it.
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This is a pretty decent summary (http://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/how-was-your-2011/msg235552/#msg235552) of my 2011; my exclusivity was up June 4th.
To put the 2011 situation in perspective, my 2010 income was up 72% over my 2009 income (exclusive both years; I became exclusive in August 2008). 2010 was a spectacular year for me and if I thought I could have even equalled it in 2011 I'd have stayed exclusive - IOW I didn't expect to see annual increases of 70% on an ongoing basis.
I'm part time at this; I do think it's hard to extrapolate from my experience to other people's - portfolios vary, I'm not at Fotolia but other people could be, etc.
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My earnings fell 20-30% my first month back at independent. I made up some ground in month 2. By month 3, my Shutterstock portfolio was getting hot, and many of my Dreamstime images started moving up in Level. This was the month that independence became more lucrative than exclusivity, and that never changed.
I don't contribute anywhere these days. My heart is no longer in microstock. But I still make good earnings per month with a static portfolio.
Thanks for sharing. It is a pitty your heart is no longer in microstock, but certainly you've moved to something better. ;0)
All the best and success in 2012!
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Another opportunity recommend Briget (Stockcube)'s excellent blog where she details her experiences of dropping exclusivity in 2010. I am sure it will be very helpful :)
[url]http://stockcube-stockcube.blogspot.com/[/url] ([url]http://stockcube-stockcube.blogspot.com/[/url])
Sorry to hear it has come to this Lucato. Istock really can't afford to lose longtime exclusives like you. They don't seem to realize it though. Best of luck whatever you decide.
Hi Lisa, thanks for the link. I'll check this out. Yes, it is a pitty, unfortunatelly they realize, but they don't care. Its better for them having me as non-exclusive and getting more from me. I think they intend to drop all exclusives and just keep the collectors of black diamonds.
Thanks for your input and all the best.
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I think its a good idea, if people are willing to share such info.
I also think people would apreciate you sharing some of your own info.
Have you even shared your partner's portfolio?
No I haven't, but I do share my experience and pretty exact numbers every month...
I know your partner portfolio, found it myself with the gauge help and stock charts, havenīt said or will say to anybody :)
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Was the recent exclusive best match push their last minute desperate attempt at appeasing exclusives
Doubt it: it was during a very slow time of the year and wouldn't have made much difference to anybody. Also it's hard to guess what percentage of sales comes from already lightboxed images and how many straight from search.
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I'm seriously considering to move on after this terrible earnings cut and drop sales in 2011 and after 9 years of "partnership" with iStock and I'll appreciate your help sharing your experiences after quitting the exclusivity there.
Perhaps just as important as looking backwards at how others have fared, after dropping exclusivity, is to project what the future may hold for you if you don't.
Having always been independent Istock have historically contributed roughly 36% of my total microstock earnings from say 2006 (when my data began to stabilise) until the summer of 2010. Ever since then they have been in steady decline and are projected to contribute just 20% this month (last month 23%). According to my data Istock are losing market share to other agencies, notably Shutterstock, on a monthly basis. There is nothing in my data to suggest that that pattern is slowing either __ if anything it may be accelerating.
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I think that different peoples experiences will differ greatly. I would not put too much stock in anyone else's experiences.
Bridget's (stockcube) blog is interesting but shouldn't really hold any weight with the OP on what return he should expect to get. I am sure Bridget would say there is a world of difference between portfolios and expectations. Jo Ann's experience would be closer but different too.
Someone who did very successfully go from exclusive to nonexclusive was monkeybusiness, but I think that was a tactical move to get a lot on istock and up to diamond. Also another stock site gave them permission to dump their whole portfolio onto their site as well.
Model releases should really be acceptable any where as they are a contract between a model and a photographer. If there was any legal action then the original signed document would be required.
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Model releases should really be acceptable any where as they are a contract between a model and a photographer. If there was any legal action then the original signed document would be required.
Exactly. As long as the original model release isn't changed, removing IS's logo from a digital copy shouldn't pose a problem.
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Someone who did very successfully go from exclusive to nonexclusive was monkeybusiness, but I think that was a tactical move to get a lot on istock and up to diamond.
Huh?? You're saying Monkeybusiness started out as exclusive to Istockphoto, before going independent? AFAIK, they've never been Istock exclusive. Istockcharts shows them starting in March of 08, and that's the same date they started on DT. Not to mention they only managed to upload 4600 out of 25000 images on Istock, which averages to 100 uploads a month - well within the non-exclusive upload limits.
Monkeybusinessimages could not possibly have been exclusive to IS. Why would you state something like that as a fact?? Maybe I am misunderstanding you...?
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Hey Lucato, good to hear from you - I hope you find something of interest on my blog (thanks for the plug again Lisa) - it is worth mentioning before you look at my income stats that I have not been able to concentrate on stock much since going independent and have only just picked it up again in the past couple of months. I did note with interest the other day though that my current indie income with only a limited amount of images available is beating what I was earning at iStock in 2009 with a similar number of images. Obviously this does not take price increases and quality of portfolio into account though.
Another former exclusive and I were chatting on Facebook the other day and we agreed that we had both experienced an enormous sense of relief when giving up the crown that we could finally put the drama behind us and stop stressing over what and increasingly remote iStock management were going to do next. I hope you find the same peace if you do decide to join us ;D
All the best whatever you decide,
Bridget
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Hi Bridget, thanks for your reply and congratulations for your blog, really nice info shared over there.
Yes, maybe I'm needing this peace you're talking about and I have to take the risk. I'm 90% bent to move on.
Thanks for our input and have a nice week.
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Where can you find a generic property and/or model release out there that all of the agencies accept instead of have to use each agencies different version?
I'm exclusive with vectors and non-exclusive with photos and I just upload raster illustrations to the other sites. One big difference I've noticed for illustrators, specifically Istock exclusives, is that you can't just upload a jpeg of your reference file. You have to upload a completed property release. This isn't asked for all files but it is something you need to anticipate.
The different releases and keywording add up to a lot of time.
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A lot of folks customize IS's model and property releases (because they're the most airtight). Just copy and paste the text into Word, and replace all references to IS with your own information. All of the agencies, including IS, accept personalized model and property releases, and don't require that we use their own versions.
Also, the only place that requires its own brand of keywording is IS, but you can still add your keywords to the metadata and then simply disambiguate in Deep Meta or on IS's website. None of the other sites have CVs or disambiguation. Oh wait...I take that back. Veer has a disambiguation process, but you can still enter the same keywords as everywhere else in the metadata. You don't have to do anything special.
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I use a generic MR at iS. No problem so far.
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A lot of folks customize IS's model and property releases (because they're the most airtight). Just copy and paste the text into Word, and replace all references to IS with your own information. All of the agencies, including IS, accept personalized model and property releases, and don't require that we use their own versions.
Also, the only place that requires its own brand of keywording is IS, but you can still add your keywords to the metadata and then simply disambiguate in Deep Meta or on IS's website. None of the other sites have CVs or disambiguation. Oh wait...I take that back. Veer has a disambiguation process, but you can still enter the same keywords as everywhere else in the metadata. You don't have to do anything special.
What makes you say they are the most airtight?
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A lot of folks customize IS's model and property releases (because they're the most airtight). Just copy and paste the text into Word, and replace all references to IS with your own information. All of the agencies, including IS, accept personalized model and property releases, and don't require that we use their own versions.
Also, the only place that requires its own brand of keywording is IS, but you can still add your keywords to the metadata and then simply disambiguate in Deep Meta or on IS's website. None of the other sites have CVs or disambiguation. Oh wait...I take that back. Veer has a disambiguation process, but you can still enter the same keywords as everywhere else in the metadata. You don't have to do anything special.
What makes you say they are the most airtight?
Just something else to argue about. ;D
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Where can you find a generic property and/or model release out there that all of the agencies accept instead of have to use each agencies different version?
I have been using and changing it too when needed, latest one was shoot date.. it is mainly Yuri Arcurs release but with 2 or 3 things different, mainly fields not the agreement
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8294845/model%20release%20over%2018.docx (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8294845/model%20release%20over%2018.docx)
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A lot of folks customize IS's model and property releases (because they're the most airtight). Just copy and paste the text into Word, and replace all references to IS with your own information. All of the agencies, including IS, accept personalized model and property releases, and don't require that we use their own versions.
Also, the only place that requires its own brand of keywording is IS, but you can still add your keywords to the metadata and then simply disambiguate in Deep Meta or on IS's website. None of the other sites have CVs or disambiguation. Oh wait...I take that back. Veer has a disambiguation process, but you can still enter the same keywords as everywhere else in the metadata. You don't have to do anything special.
What makes you say they are the most airtight?
Just something else to argue about. ;D
LOL :D
Last time I read the various releases, which has been about five years now, IS's had more protections for the photographer, and contained more complete information for the model, which better helps them understand exactly what they are signing.
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@luissantos84 Thanks! I just need to modify that into a property release and I should be good.
I'll be using the property release the most for sketch reference but I'm glad to hear that generic property / model releases are acceptable. That will be a huge time saver.
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Link to Yuri's free and downloadable releases here:
http://www.arcurs.com/what-is-a-model-release (http://www.arcurs.com/what-is-a-model-release)
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Someone who did very successfully go from exclusive to nonexclusive was monkeybusiness, but I think that was a tactical move to get a lot on istock and up to diamond.
Huh?? You're saying Monkeybusiness started out as exclusive to Istockphoto, before going independent? AFAIK, they've never been Istock exclusive. Istockcharts shows them starting in March of 08, and that's the same date they started on DT. Not to mention they only managed to upload 4600 out of 25000 images on Istock, which averages to 100 uploads a month - well within the non-exclusive upload limits.
Monkeybusinessimages could not possibly have been exclusive to IS. Why would you state something like that as a fact?? Maybe I am misunderstanding you...?
I do remember quite clearly that they were exclusive for a bit, up to about 1000 images uploaded. (I am pretty sure I am right but I may be loosing my mind). I think it was back in the days when monkeybusiness was called stockbroker.
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So far after leaving IS exclusivity and going to SS is absolutely dire. After 3 days at SS I have earned a mere $2.00 on 8 downloads. That's much worse than IS who pay more than that for one download. I have checked my images and they do come up in the searches.
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Last time I read the various releases, which has been about five years now, IS's had more protections for the photographer, and contained more complete information for the model, which better helps them understand exactly what they are signing.
I thought you were referring to them being tested in the courts ...
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So far after leaving IS exclusivity and going to SS is absolutely dire. After 3 days at SS I have earned a mere $2.00 on 8 downloads. That's much worse than IS who pay more than that for one download. I have checked my images and they do come up in the searches.
How many images do you have up at SS?
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So far after leaving IS exclusivity and going to SS is absolutely dire. After 3 days at SS I have earned a mere $2.00 on 8 downloads. That's much worse than IS who pay more than that for one download. I have checked my images and they do come up in the searches.
How many images do you have up at SS?
And did you/he read and consider my suggestion to redo keywords to make them work better for sites like SS that don't use a controlled vocabulary? After the new image bounce, what matter are keywords. And synonyms help buyers find your work.
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So far after leaving IS exclusivity and going to SS is absolutely dire. After 3 days at SS I have earned a mere $2.00 on 8 downloads. That's much worse than IS who pay more than that for one download. I have checked my images and they do come up in the searches.
How many images do you have up at SS?
And did you/he read and consider my suggestion to redo keywords to make them work better for sites like SS that don't use a controlled vocabulary? After the new image bounce, what matter are keywords. And synonyms help buyers find your work.
How does it work for other languages? I got 112 results for pollo, but 95,382 for chicken.
45 for fenetre (some 'surprising'); 290,257 for window.
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So far after leaving IS exclusivity and going to SS is absolutely dire. After 3 days at SS I have earned a mere $2.00 on 8 downloads. That's much worse than IS who pay more than that for one download. I have checked my images and they do come up in the searches.
How many images do you have up at SS?
And did you/he read and consider my suggestion to redo keywords to make them work better for sites like SS that don't use a controlled vocabulary? After the new image bounce, what matter are keywords. And synonyms help buyers find your work.
How does it work for other languages? I got 112 results for pollo, but 95,382 for chicken.
45 for fenetre (some 'surprising'); 290,257 for window.
When you go to the Spanish language version, 95,382 images come up for "pollo."
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So far after leaving IS exclusivity and going to SS is absolutely dire. After 3 days at SS I have earned a mere $2.00 on 8 downloads. That's much worse than IS who pay more than that for one download. I have checked my images and they do come up in the searches.
How many images do you have up at SS?
And did you/he read and consider my suggestion to redo keywords to make them work better for sites like SS that don't use a controlled vocabulary? After the new image bounce, what matter are keywords. And synonyms help buyers find your work.
How does it work for other languages? I got 112 results for pollo, but 95,382 for chicken.
45 for fenetre (some 'surprising'); 290,257 for window.
When you go to the Spanish language version, 95,382 images come up for "pollo."
Ah, I see that now!!! :-[
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Ok, I will try the keywording. For instance, on IS the words nobody photography horizontal vertical are used when needed. How critical is this at SS ?
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Ok, I will try the keywording. For instance, on IS the words nobody photography horizontal vertical are used when needed. How critical is this at SS ?
Not at all. I've never noticed any buyer using those keywords on either SS or DT. However it is important to include spelling variations or different words for the same thing in different countries e.g. 'aubergine' in the UK is the same as 'eggplant' in the US. On FT and DT you also need to include plurals if appropriate to the image.
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Ok, I will try the keywording. For instance, on IS the words nobody photography horizontal vertical are used when needed. How critical is this at SS ?
Not at all. I've never noticed any buyer using those keywords on either SS or DT. However it is important to include spelling variations or different words for the same thing in different countries e.g. 'aubergine' in the UK is the same as 'eggplant' in the US. On FT and DT you also need to include plurals if appropriate to the image.
Ok, thanks. I will bear that in mind.
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Hi folks, just to share with who is following my post, finally I made a decision (30 days ago) and quit the iStock exclusivity. So my portfolio are in these microstock agencies now:
- Shutterstock (Lucato's Portfolio (http://shutr.bz/IQOiyB)) - 950 files
- Fotolia (Lucato's Portfolio (http://us.fotolia.com/p/203033041/partner/203033041)) - 149 files
- Dreamstime (Lucato's Portfolio (http://www.dreamstime.com/resp590-images)) - 1450 files
- iStockphoto (Lucato's Portfolio (http://www.istockphoto.com/lucato)) - 7189 files
For a while I can't mention how are the things doing after the move made, once I just made it.
But just to share with those that intend to give up the exclusivity, one think I can tell you all for sure, it isn't a easy move even other agencies having FTP and CSV files or accepting IPTC. I mean, it is a hard job to send files to all them, re-keyword, re-categorize and so on. You must have time and be dedicated and I don't know yet if all hard work will worth. :0) I hope so. Let me cross fingers! Anyway it isn't any monster with 7 heads.
If you have other suggestion of other the biggest microsites agencies that worth the hard work to submit, please, post their names here.
All the best.
Lucato
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All the best to you! You are very brave and many here will follow your results.
To see that getty/istock is being burdened with tremendous debt by itīs owners, while cutting down support for the artists and no visionary goals and directions in sight, who knows what will happen.
At the moment for me this si no option. I need to be able to produce in high volume before I make any decisions and I really want to focus on video this year.
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If you have other suggestion of other the biggest microsites agencies that worth the hard work to submit, please, post their names here.
All the best.
Lucato
Hi, Lucato. Have a look at 123 and Depost Images. DI might just take your entire portfolio in one go and handle the work of putting it up on their site. FTP uploading to 123RF is quite simple, too, and some people do quite well there.
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Hi Cobalt, good morning and thanks for the warm wishes.
Yes, the iStock lately isn't the way it was before. Support/earnings cut and so on.
Actually IMHO you have already a enough volume. I get the double, but half had no sale over there, maybe never fit in the search adjustments. Yes, that is true.
I intended to work with video, illustrations and etc, but also you need to much time and it is very sad by being exclusive when you expend a lot of ours producing a video or illustration and get rejected. :0)
Well, all the best to you too with your new video step.
Have a nice weekend.
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If you have other suggestion of other the biggest microsites agencies that worth the hard work to submit, please, post their names here.
All the best.
Lucato
Hi, Lucato. Have a look at 123 and Depost Images. DI might just take your entire portfolio in one go and handle the work of putting it up on their site. FTP uploading to 123RF is quite simple, too, and some people do quite well there.
Thanks for the advice, I will keep that in mind and check them out.
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Good luck with your brave move Lucato. It may take a couple of years but I'm sure by then you will be certain that you made the right decision. Istock is only going in one direction as the owners have cut staff and now appear to be using it as a cash cow to recover as much of their original investment as possible. You can only screw your customers and your contributors for so long. Fortunately SS is taking up much of the slack.
The 'engine' of your earnings is almost certainly going to be SS but it will take time for your images to climb up the default sort order and gain favourable position for regular sales __ think months rather than days or weeks although some will take off immediately. The same is also true of DT and FT but sadly they too are becoming less important.
Keep us posted on how things go.
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Good luck with the transition. I agree that it's work, but having dropped exclusivity in early June 2011, I still think I made the right decision - many exclusives are seeing drops in April 2012 vs. April 2011 but I saw an increase. Impossible to say what it would have been had I stayed, but ...
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Hi folks, just to share with who is following my post, finally I made a decision (30 days ago) and quit the iStock exclusivity.
A bold move - I admire your bravery. I'm so reliant on istock for my income now I don't think I'll ever be able to do it, but will follow your progress with much interest.
Keep us informed on how it goes!
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Congratulations Lucato! Sorry to see you and other exclusives have to wrestle with this decision. I am sure you will do well, and in time all your efforts will be rewarded :).
Wishing you all the best of luck!
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@gostwyc
I hope you're completely wrong by saying "couple of years" and it be "couple of months" instead. :o) Yes, I don't have idea what Getty intend to do with iStock, let's see on the other side as non-exclusive how the things go. ;o)
Yes, by checking the Big 4, SS seams really to be the 1st, IS as 2nd, FL 3rd and DT 4th. What are all sites that you contribute and what are the ones that worth to work with in you opinion?
@jsnover
Thanks for the wishes and I hope too to have made the right decision. It scares have 50% of the earnings cut due giving up exclusivity, and worst it was already cut +34% with that RC table! Anyway iStock must be very happy with these all giving up, their income will increase a lot having a bigger commission over our sales.
I see your icons signature you contribute to several microstock agencies, in your opinion, what are the ones that worth to work with and brings you a better and significant income? Thanks.
@fotoVoyager
Thanks fotoVoyager, very concerned, but I had to quit the comfort zone. I have 7000+ images there and created a lightbox with 0 downloads and get to notice that almost 50% of them have no downloads! So, it was time to get out of a only search results/tweak and give a chance to these files into other baskets, because IMHO they aren't bad at all to have no sales within couple years. Just as curiosity if you want to check, this is the Be the first one to use lightbox (http://www.istockphoto.com/search/lightbox/2050544#189ad0&refnum=lucato) that I'm talking about. ;0)
@lisafx
Hi Lisa, good to hear from you! Thanks and thanks for your help. ;0) Yes, I'm crossing fingers here to do well, as I said to jsnover it scares, but let's give a chance to other options in our lives and get out of the square. ;0)
Thanks folks for all inputs, wishes and talking about wishes, I wish you all an amazing weekend and good luck too in your moves and sales. ;0)
Keep the opinions and comments coming. ;0)
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iStock and SS are, for me, where the big bucks are coming from. Fotolia wouldn't have me back (long story that's all in this forum somewhere) so I don't have any current experience with them, but there are lots of disenchanted gold and emerald contributors as FT has been playing some of the same games as iStock.
I keep hoping that Veer will get some volume going, but so far it's been pretty slow (and their 50 a week upload limit really slows down getting a portfolio uploaded). Their subscriptions (introduced a few months ago) appear to be all but dead, but the royalties on regular sales are very reasonable.
123rf has been good, but they've announced that starting in January they'll have a system just like iStock's RCs (with a few twists so that it's a rolling average, changing month by month versus getting set for 12 months at a time). They've tried some rather sad spin as to how this will be better for us, but it's really just another cash grab by a greedy agency, IMO.
I'd give BigStock a miss - the sales just aren't there for new work (some people who are getting decent sales have said here that it's mainly older stuff that's selling). I'd love to see something happening at StockFresh, but again, sales aren't there so I'd wait until you see posts here about how sales are picking up before you add them to your list.
CanStock is a nice company and the uploading is easy and fast. Sales are very slow but the ones through their parent company which come through periodically are much higher earnings, so they might be worth your while. I don't do DepositPhotos because their prices and commissions are too low, IMO. They offer people special deals and placement, but as they keep offering that, it would seem to dilute the value to past contributors - we can't all be getting special placement.
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I wish you much success Lucato you certainly have worked a lot to do this... Hope to hear about your earnings findings on your blog when you have enough data %.
I say support the fair agencies and stop feeding the greed.
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I'd give BigStock a miss - the sales just aren't there for new work (some people who are getting decent sales have said here that it's mainly older stuff that's selling). I'd love to see something happening at StockFresh, but again, sales aren't there so I'd wait until you see posts here about how sales are picking up before you add them to your list.
If he talks nicely to SS they might automatically mirror all his work on bigstock. That way he gets to earn a little bit from them with absolutely no effort on his part.
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@jsnover
Thanks for the extra info jsnover, I appreciate that. Regarding Fotolia, sorry to hear that you had some bad experience. If you find it among your own posts in your profile and want to share, feel free to post the link.
Veer seems to be in the 4th place from the middle tier shown here. I don't know how this data are based, if are from users input or API control. From API would be more precise.
My only concern on participating into more agencies than the top 4 that I'm already in, is if it worths the effort and time spent instead of using it to treat the thousand of images I have stored into my HD (queue) and/or take new shots and upload to the top 4 agencies.
Well, maybe it is something to think about after sending all my files to all big 4 first. :0)
Have a nice day and thanks again.
jamesbenet
Hey James, thanks. I'll try to post some articles on my blog regarding the subject and update here. ;0)
Have a great weekend.
BaldricksTrousers
Hi there, I'm sorry for the dumb question, but does SS own BigStock too? I will try to talk nicely to them if so. Thanks for the advice. I appreciate that. ;0)
Have a nice day.
Keep coming...
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Hi Lucato,
had a look at that zero download light box - I agree, there are a lot of lovely files in there, that deserve more attention. And if you really have over 3000 files in need of new exposure, your move makes a lot of sense.
Had a look at my portfolio, I have 480 files with zero downloads and maybe another 500 files with very few downloads, but many of those are either old files from when I started out with stock or the less attractive files from a series.
Thanks to stockperformer it is quite easy to see how my portfolio is doing and usually over 2 years most of my stuff will get sold.
I really need to upload more, that is my main problem right now.
With video it is different, I already have more sales and money from going independent than from being exclusive, so for me this was a good decision. It might be different if I got the same royalty rate like my pictures, but as a newbie to rise through the RC levels is impossible if it is not your main subject. I am sure this is what the RC system really wants - only be exclusive with your strong subject and spread your files for the weaker ones, so istock can get a bigger share from your second media types.
I thought it would have been good to convince artists to remain fully exclusive, but if that was their intention, they would have improved the RC system a long time ago.
But for photos I think istock is still doing a good job at selling them, it is not their fault if I donīt upload enough.
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@jsnover
Thanks for the extra info jsnover, I appreciate that. Regarding Fotolia, sorry to hear that you had some bad experience. If you find it among your own posts in your profile and want to share, feel free to post the link.
Veer seems to be in the 4th place from the middle tier shown here. I don't know how this data are based, if are from users input or API control. From API would be more precise.
My only concern on participating into more agencies than the top 4 that I'm already in, is if it worths the effort and time spent instead of using it to treat the thousand of images I have stored into my HD (queue) and/or take new shots and upload to the top 4 agencies.
Well, maybe it is something to think about after sending all my files to all big 4 first. :0)
Have a nice day and thanks again.
jamesbenet
Hey James, thanks. I'll try to post some articles on my blog regarding the subject and update here. ;0)
Have a great weekend.
BaldricksTrousers
Hi there, I'm sorry for the dumb question, but does SS own BigStock too? I will try to talk nicely to them if so. Thanks for the advice. I appreciate that. ;0)
Have a nice day.
Keep coming...
Yes, shutterstock bought bigstockphoto a couple of years ago and offer to some what they call Bridge to Bigstock. It's usually by invite but like has been suggested maybe you could email them and ask if they'd do it, there would be nothing for you to do, no categorizing, no assigning releases, no nothing.
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I thought it would have been good to convince artists to remain fully exclusive, but if that was their intention, they would have improved the RC system a long time ago.
Not have started it, or rescinded it, or at least upheld their 'grandfathered in' promise.
The fact is they don't really care if we're exclusive or not, and would probably prefer that most of us (other than the top sellers) weren't.
Added: from what I've heard, iStock don't follow through any exclusives who go indie. That in itself speaks volumes.
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Lucato, you asked a couple of times in posts above what other sites to consider uploading to. I have been very impressed with both Photodune and Depositphotos. They are newer sites, but their contributions to my monthly totals are significant, and comparable to longer established sites like 123RF and Canstockphoto (where you might also consider uploading). Hope that helps :)
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Canstock contacted me a while back to ask me to FTP my entire archive to them after they noticed that I'd not bothered sending them some of it. I think they accepted it into their collection without my having to do anything. So a mail to them might be worthwhile. I don't think it's worth bothering with them unless they make it really easy to get your portfolio on there.
With both Canstock and Deposit Photos the work in uploading your entire portfolio might involve no more than leaving an FTP server running for a while.
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The best of luck Lucato with your new journey (((hugs))). It's so sad seeing long time exclusives having to make that difficult decision. I've been pretty inactive over the last couple of years with uploading (kinda lost my spirit and enthusiasm over that last year with iS and haven't regained it), but found (after dropping exclusive) that my images started to sell pretty quickly at SS.
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Hi Luis,
itīs been a while and I hope for you that youīve seen some success yet. Unfortunately for many of us it looks more and more that youīve made the right decision. IStock currently seems to fall apart.
Would you be willing to share some of your experience again? It seems to gain importance day by day.
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Hi folks, just sharing the things after going to complete the 5th month... By the way, I'd like to hear also from other member that have left the exclusivity too how are the things doing on their side.
Well, I'm sorry to all for my delay, but it isn't not something to post daily. ;0)
Updating the other thread above where I said the agencies and files#, here is the update:
- Shutterstock (Lucato's Portfolio (http://shutr.bz/IQOiyB)) - 950 files, now it is 1524 files online (2400 submitted + 200 in the queue);
- Fotolia (Lucato's Portfolio (http://us.fotolia.com/p/203033041/partner/203033041)) - 149 files, now it is 1816 files online (2400 submitted + 200 in the queue);
- Dreamstime (Lucato's Portfolio (http://www.dreamstime.com/resp590-images)) - 1450 files, now it is 1656 files online (2400 submitted + 200 in the queue).
- iStockphoto (Lucato's Portfolio (http://tinyurl.com/8wf2m9h)) - 7189 files, now it is 7213 files online (24 submitted)
- Depositphotos (Lucato's Portfolio (http://depositphotos.com/portfolio-1757833.html?ref=1757833)) - new site, now it is 2553 files online (2600 submitted)
- BigStock (Lucato's Portfolio (http://www.bigstockphoto.com/profile/9DBx6S0taf?refid=9DBx6S0taf)) - new site, now it is 1521 files online (2400 submitted)
Regarding the iStock earnings, in sum it dropped 80% of my income by leaving the exclusivity (+ iStock sales drop), and the other agencies income didn't get close to this dropped value. So, for example if I used to make/earn 1k a month at iStock, it dropped to $200/month, and the other agencies, no one get close to 50% of it yet and summing them all, they don't reach what I was making as exclusive.
Well, it was a decision for not leaving all eggs in the same basket and as they cut our exclusivity earnings from 40% to 35% with the RC, and the sales went down drastically, plus a lot of bugs in the system, no FTP or other improvements in upload an so on. By knowing the other sites systems you see how iStock is old in its technology/system for editing/uploading images. Well, it is a long term and not for a short term results, I hope so, despite of being in the 5th month that I've left the exclusivity. When I started at iStock, I started to make my 1st $100 bucks and got to withdraw it after a year or more too.
Well, in sum, if it is you only income and you have no reserves to hold this period of going down the hill, it is a big risk and I would advice you to not take it, plus if you're not a "workaholic", I would suggest you to stay as exclusive. Keep in the "comfort zone" even with the risks iStock is showing to have.
Besides that, you cannot take my data/portfolio as reference. I mean there are photographers with much less files and making much more money than I do/did. So, it will depend on your work/portfolio content/style too.
If you have in mind to move or not, I suggest you to ALWAYS save your images with the IPTC data for keywords, descriptions and categories. I didn't know that and you can imagine what a hard work I'm having with my 7200+ files to submit to other agencies. So, keep in mind this TIP/ADVICE! If you have no idea what IPTC data is, read this article that wrote in my blog (http://ilucato.com.br/lucatowp/lang/en-us/o-que-e-iptc-data-e-sua-importancia-em-microsites-e-em-sua-hd-ganhe-muito-tempowhat-is-iptc-data-and-its-importance-in-microsites-and-your-hd-huge-time-saver/).
Well, I hope that helps your future decision. Who knows in the next 5 months I post some other news. ;0)
As I said before, I'd like to hear also from other members that have left the exclusivity also and know how are the things doing on their sides too.
Thanks and have a nice day.
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Hi Lucato,
thank you very much for your honest reporting. I think many people underestimate how long it takes for the customers to "bookmark" you and your portfolio so that they keep coming back to check what you have new. Also many other artists may already be active in your niche and again it will take time to get noticed.
When you enter a new market with products, I would expect at least 12-18 months to pass before you get a signifacant amount of repeat customers. I would expect it to be the same in the stock world, unless what you offer is so unique that noone else has it.
If you take your example of 1k earnings from istock, how much have you recovered now in total over all agenies at this stage? 300 dollars? 500?
And do you also have your own webstore where customers can buy directly from you?
I know a lot of people who are considering to quit their photo exclusivity, but I keep pointing out that the other agencies are not exactly waiting for the exclusive content.
The video market is different, because it is a new market and all the sites have very few files. It is similar to the stage photos where in in 2005.
For me the combination video independence and photo exclusive for now seems to be the best route.
But others are seeing very large drops in their sales and I understand that they are looking into alternatives. Also all the drama at istock and the lack of communication can be really hard to deal with. At least now whenever there is a disaster at istock I can just go and do a video and enjoy the really modern upload systems of SS and others and 24 hour turnaround times for video inspections.
It really helps my peace of mind to have some balance.
Looking forward to hear how your journey continues. All the best!
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I think cobalt has hit the nail on the head there and gives some good advice. Lucato, give it some more time for repeat customers and also to allow yourself to grow in the search engine rankings and im sure you will do very well, and don't rule out video as it can supplement your income.
Unfortunately being non-excluive at istock is a very sad state of affairs. You will get raped on commission, shoved to the back of the search results and be the last to get your photos inspected. And be there problems at istock, expect to be the last on the list of istock's priorities.
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You also have to consider that you have 7k images on iStock, and you submitted 1/6 on other sites.
I have mostly Illustrations but I would also put your port to Canstock, easy and quick.
Second, considering you are losing income monthly by not having your full portfolio online, I would find a Freelancer (I can refer one on my team in PM if it helps) to submit your images for you say at 10 to 15 cents per image.
The monthly income should help you get back that investment quick. At least target shutterstock to increase to the top tier as quickly as possible.
For your videos get them on Pond5 they sell well there.
Hope this helps a bit!
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Thanks for reporting your results Lucato. Interesting food for thought for exclusives thinking of making the jump. Also very good advice from Cobalt and Morphart.
If I could just add a bit to that advice - Instead of uploading some images to each new site, and building your portfolio simultaneously on all new sites you are on, you might want to concentrate on getting all 7k images on each site at a time, in order of importance. For example, I would be focusing all my energies on getting my portfolio on SS right now. The sooner your port is up to high numbers there, the faster you will see your overall earnings jump. Once they're all up on SS, then move to DT, then FT, and so on, in order of the sites' earnings potential.
Just a suggestion to help you recover lost income as quickly as possible. :)
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I am not sure if I understand correctly, and it is by no means a jab towards anyone. But am I correct in saying that 2400 images were submitted and 600 were rejected?
If thats true, he wont have 7k images online, but around 5k. Which is still phenomenal, but 2k images less will also affect potential income compared to the 7k images exclusive on IS.
I have to say, I didnt realise that being exclusive would get you so much more money than being independent.
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I am not sure if I understand correctly, and it is by no means a jab towards anyone. But am I correct in saying that 2400 images were submitted and 600 were rejected?
- Shutterstock (Lucato's Portfolio ([url]http://shutr.bz/IQOiyB[/url])) - 950 files, now it is 1524 files online (2400 submitted + 200 in the queue);
its actually 876
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Thank you for correcting my typo, keep it up and maybe someday I'll let you be my secretary
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Thank you for correcting my typo, keep it up and maybe someday I'll let you be my secretary
dont forget to eat the cereals
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Lucato, thanks so much for the update. I continue to debate with myself over what point to leave iStock Exclusivity. I don't think I am at the point just yet for a number of reasons. Your report has been very helpful.
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I am not sure if I understand correctly, and it is by no means a jab towards anyone. But am I correct in saying that 2400 images were submitted and 600 were rejected?
If thats true, he wont have 7k images online, but around 5k. Which is still phenomenal, but 2k images less will also affect potential income compared to the 7k images exclusive on IS.
I have to say, I didnt realise that being exclusive would get you so much more money than being independent.
I would submit photos that IS had rejected. Many best sellers on other agencies are rejected by Istock. I'd concentrate on the ones accepted on Istock first though.
So the overall images may be about the same after rejected ones are submitted.
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I may be wrong, but I doubt that Lucato has many rejected files. If you are exclusive you really get to know the style that istock likes very well. Many exclusives have very high acceptance rates (over 90%).
However I wonder what kind of rejections he is receiving at the other agencies. Maybe he can share some insights or tips when he has time.
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I may be wrong, but I doubt that Lucato has many rejected files. If you are exclusive you really get to know the style that istock likes very well. Many exclusives have very high acceptance rates (over 90%).
However I wonder what kind of rejections he is receiving at the other agencies. Maybe he can share some insights or tips when he has time.
I didnt mean to imply that he has many rejected images at IS. I was only looking at the numbers he mentioned himself
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I do not envy you the task of getting all the iptc data on all those files. ugh. I am guessing that as soon as the iptc is done then you upload them everywhere. - a daunting task, that is for sure. For anyone starting out or for exclusives I second the advice to keyword etc. in the iptc.
I think that IS has been insulating exclusives (mainly by shafting independents it appears) from any downturns - unfortunately for them they seem to have run out of shafting to be done to independents, so the pain is starting to hit the exclusives. It will be a painful process to jump ship, and a long road to get back to the kind of earnings you made as an exclusive. Thanks for keeping us posted.
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Yes, thanks, Lucato. Very interesting reading, and not necessarily what I've have expected from your port going indie. (I'd have expected you to be exceeding your iStock exclusive earnings by now.) But clearly it's a long haul.
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...However I wonder what kind of rejections he is receiving at the other agencies. Maybe he can share some insights or tips when he has time.
I'll give you some examples of iStock files of mine that have sold well that Shutterstock rejected (one of them I resubmitted saying that it had sold over 500 times on iStock and they accepted it; they had said it had LCV at first). In general, they don't much like dramatic light (and some of the rejects had been Vetta at iStock)
One (http://www.istockphoto.com/stock-photo-16613930-lounge-chairs-amp-yellow-umbrellas-on-tranquil-grace-bay-beach.php), two (http://www.istockphoto.com/stock-photo-9636005-margerie-glacier.php?st=1be0442), three (http://www.istockphoto.com/stock-photo-20269624-sun-setting-over-grace-bay.php?st=1be0442), four (http://www.istockphoto.com/stock-photo-11939423-first-light.php?st=1be0442), five (http://www.istockphoto.com/stock-photo-8630265-capitol-view.php?st=1be0442), six (http://www.istockphoto.com/stock-photo-12065002-austin-texas-capitol.php?st=1be0442), seven (http://www.istockphoto.com/stock-photo-9188926-magens-bay-st-thomas.php?st=1be0442), eight (http://www.istockphoto.com/stock-photo-9919216-driftwood-plank.php?st=1be0442).
On the other hand, iStock rejected some things that SS accepted and which sell well, such as this (http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-92916232/stock-photo-grace-bay-beach-turks-caicos-with-the-setting-sun-at-the-horizon.html?src=5ebd9e06797fc303a8a7fc0e479f0763-1-2), this (http://www.shutterstock.com/pic.mhtml?id=79599514) and this (http://www.shutterstock.com/pic.mhtml?id=96812335), so it really is a roundabouts and swings situation. DT's most annoying thing is the ridiculous similars policy; otherwise, they're pretty reasonable.
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Very interesting, thank you!
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Extremely daunting but brave move and in a totally oversaturated market where supply is much higher then demand and where most other agencies are turning their screws tighter and tighter around contributors.
I know somebody almost exactly in your shoes and with almost exactly the same amount of files. He keeps a low profile, doesnt really want to talk, let alone write about it. He left the entire micro industry and uploaded all his thousands of files as RF instead.
Today, just over a year later he is doing very well, almost on par with his earlier earnings.
Wish you all the luck and as Lisa said, concentrate on SS at first, thats where your bread and butter will come from. :)
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He left the entire micro industry and uploaded all his thousands of files as RF instead.
Today, just over a year later he is doing very well, almost on par with his earlier earnings.
That is, he uploaded his files RF on macro sites?
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He left the entire micro industry and uploaded all his thousands of files as RF instead.
Today, just over a year later he is doing very well, almost on par with his earlier earnings.
That is, he uploaded his files RF on macro sites?
Thats what I meant. yes.
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@Cobalt
Hi Lucato,
thank you very much for your honest reporting. I think many people underestimate how long it takes for the customers to "bookmark" you and your portfolio so that they keep coming back to check what you have new. Also many other artists may already be active in your niche and again it will take time to get noticed.
Hi Cobalt, thank you for your reply and comments.
Yes. Actually I don't even believe that at some point we get bookmarked or have any customer loyalty, once the customer will buy what the search results will bring and will fit for their needs in the project they're working on. Maybe your image will be added to some LB project for those customers that are very organized. :0)
When you enter a new market with products, I would expect at least 12-18 months to pass before you get a signifacant amount of repeat customers. I would expect it to be the same in the stock world, unless what you offer is so unique that noone else has it.
Yes, and besides that you have a lot of other factors such a "search results formula" like iStock sets every time different way wich doesn't bring always the "all products into the store" as any regular store.
If you take your example of 1k earnings from istock, how much have you recovered now in total over all agencies at this stage? 300 dollars? 500?
Here is a spreadsheet I built to show a sample assuming that iStock is the 100% income compared to the other agencies:
(http://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/experiences-after-quitting-istock-exclusivity/?action=dlattach;attach=10971;image)
And do you also have your own web store where customers can buy directly from you?
Well, IMHO, I think it doesn't worth the effort. I have no time to manage it all and besides that expend all this time to maybe get extra 100 bucks, so I don't think it is a good a idea. Maybe use this time to treat the other thousand of files parked in my HD to submit or start to make more movies. ;0) Well, by having the other agencies with "zilions" of visitors a day and making 1% as you saw in the spreadsheet above, you can imagine by having an own web store how much would make. :0) Any way I'd like to hear from those that have built its own image web store to see how it is going and percentage comparisons.
I know a lot of people who are considering to quit their photo exclusivity, but I keep pointing out that the other agencies are not exactly waiting for the exclusive content.
Well it depends if they see the image as exclusive or the contributor as exclusive. So in my case, regular images, just a exclusive contributor, so nothing like vetta, hiper power productions and so on. Well, actually I just remembered that I have some exclusive contents at iStock, the images I took from the minilypses. :0)
The video market is different, because it is a new market and all the sites have very few files. It is similar to the stage photos where in in 2005.
Thanks for the tip. I need to start to enjoy this slice. Actually two weeks ago I requested the exclusivity cancellation for video too, despite of not having a great video volume/content. Anyway, I will start to think more about video production this year and spread the few ones I have to the other agencies. The next step will be my vectors and sounds for those that will accept these type of files.
For me the combination video independence and photo exclusive for now seems to be the best route.
I need to try the photo and video independence to see how it goes. :0)
But others are seeing very large drops in their sales and I understand that they are looking into alternatives. Also all the drama at istock and the lack of communication can be really hard to deal with. At least now whenever there is a disaster at istock I can just go and do a video and enjoy the really modern upload systems of SS and others and 24 hour turnaround times for video inspections.
Yes, very sad what iStock became these days. I loved the other upload systems and editions that are much more ahead/beyond than iStock is.
It really helps my peace of mind to have some balance. Looking forward to hear how your journey continues. All the best!
Thanks, the same this side.
Have a wonderful Sunday.
P.S.: I will try to reply to everybody, just need a time. ;0)
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@Istocker2011
I think cobalt has hit the nail on the head there and gives some good advice. Lucato, give it some more time for repeat customers and also to allow yourself to grow in the search engine rankings and im sure you will do very well, and don't rule out video as it can supplement your income.
Yes, it takes time to grow in the search engine. That is because I'm feeding all agencies step by step. Thanks for talking about the video, I need to find some extra time to work with it. ;0)
Unfortunately being non-excluive at istock is a very sad state of affairs. You will get raped on commission, shoved to the back of the search results and be the last to get your photos inspected. And be there problems at istock, expect to be the last on the list of istock's priorities.
Yes I agree. A huge fall in earnings and other situations and actions. But how the thinks are, it also keeps scaring anyone to keep all eggs in one basket. If for some reason they have some outage of power, cancel the site as they did in the past with iStockPro, can you image how long will you start to build all over in other agencies and start to make money? Well to much pros and cons to thing about to take such a decision. ;0)
Have a great Sunday and thanks for your input.
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@Morphart
You also have to consider that you have 7k images on iStock, and you submitted 1/6 on other sites.
I would say something around 1/4 approved. :0)
I have mostly Illustrations but I would also put your port to Canstock, easy and quick.
Not sure if you have the same illustrations at iStock, but assuming iStock is 100%, how much Canstock income represents to your income compared to iStock?
[/quote]
Second, considering you are losing income monthly by not having your full portfolio online, I would find a Freelancer (I can refer one on my team in PM if it helps) to submit your images for you say at 10 to 15 cents per image.[/quote]
Didn't get it very well (Maybe my language barrier). :0) If you PM me with further explanation I'll appreciate. Thanks
The monthly income should help you get back that investment quick. At least target shutterstock to increase to the top tier as quickly as possible.
I hope so. ;0)
For your videos get them on Pond5 they sell well there.
I'll check this out, thanks for your tip.
Hope this helps a bit!
Yes it does. Thanks and have a nice day.
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@Lisafx
Thanks for reporting your results Lucato. Interesting food for thought for exclusives thinking of making the jump. Also very good advice from Cobalt and Morphart.
Hi Lisa, good to hear from you. Thanks for replying. Yes good points.
If I could just add a bit to that advice - Instead of uploading some images to each new site, and building your portfolio simultaneously on all new sites you are on, you might want to concentrate on getting all 7k images on each site at a time, in order of importance. For example, I would be focusing all my energies on getting my portfolio on SS right now. The sooner your port is up to high numbers there, the faster you will see your overall earnings jump. Once they're all up on SS, then move to DT, then FT, and so on, in order of the sites' earnings potential. Just a suggestion to help you recover lost income as quickly as possible. :)
Thanks for you suggestion Lisa. Good one too. Actually I thought about it, but I was a little bit concerned about building the reputation. I mean, as mentioned by iStocker2011: "grow in the search engine rankings". IMHO by sending all at once would generate different ranking and so on. Well, at least I think so. We never know how it exactly works. Maybe I will take your advice and send the next 2500 to SS and after move to the others. As you can check in the spreadsheet, SS really is in the second place for income. ;0)
Thanks Lisa for your suggestion, I appreciated that. Have a great Sunday.
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@Poncke
I am not sure if I understand correctly, and it is by no means a jab towards anyone. But am I correct in saying that 2400 images were submitted and 600 were rejected?
If thats true, he wont have 7k images online, but around 5k. Which is still phenomenal, but 2k images less will also affect potential income compared to the 7k images exclusive on IS.
Hi there, yes, let's say 600 were reject, but each agency works in its way. So for example some just accepts images with at least 4MP while iStock used to accept lower sizes, so as I sent in lot/FTP it counts, other reject due similar tittle and description or similar image or too much already in the database or some has just an automatic rejection if you pick some category or other prefer that the image be more sharpened or less effects and so on. So, a lot of factors to reject them, and I wont lose time fixing them. Let's move on and keep upload and I have also thousand of new images parked in the HD to still be treated and submitted too. But I have no time. Image if I lose time fixing some rejections or worrying about them. ;0)
I have to say, I didnt realise that being exclusive would get you so much more money than being independent.
Well, it isn't like it seems easy or other. It has canister levels to reach. I'm 10 years member, and so on. So, it isn't in a blink of eyes to get a huge income difference. Mainly now with the RC system at iStock.
Thanks and have a nice day.
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@LuisSantos84
- Shutterstock (Lucato's Portfolio ([url]http://shutr.bz/IQOiyB[/url])) - 950 files, now it is 1524 files online (2400 submitted + 200 in the queue);
its actually 876
No. Are you sure you haven't set some filters that are affecting your search results? It is really 1524 files online at SS. On the left column on the bottom try to clean your search setting by hitting the clear button.
Have a great Sunday.
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Extremely daunting but brave move and in a totally oversaturated market where supply is much higher then demand and where most other agencies are turning their screws tighter and tighter around contributors.
I know somebody almost exactly in your shoes and with almost exactly the same amount of files. He keeps a low profile, doesnt really want to talk, let alone write about it. He left the entire micro industry and uploaded all his thousands of files as RF instead.
Today, just over a year later he is doing very well, almost on par with his earlier earnings.
Wish you all the luck and as Lisa said, concentrate on SS at first, thats where your bread and butter will come from. :)
He left micro and uploaded all his files RF instead. Isn't micro RF. What are you telling us Christine?
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Hi folks, just sharing the things after going to complete the 5th month... By the way, I'd like to hear also from other member that have left the exclusivity too how are the things doing on their side.
Regarding the iStock earnings, in sum it dropped 80% of my income by leaving the exclusivity (+ iStock sales drop), and the other agencies income didn't get close to this dropped value. So, for example if I used to make/earn 1k a month at iStock, it dropped to $200/month, and the others, no one get close to 50% of it yet and summing them all, doesn't reach what I was making as exclusive.
Well, it was a decision for not leaving all eggs in the same basket and as they cut our exclusivity earnings from 40% to 35% with the RC
If you take the your $$$$ % drop after leaving istock, and apply it to your commission rate you went from 35% to 7% commission on istock sales. I believe some of this due to falling sales but If you apply a 17% commission rate to non-exclusive files being cheaper (63% of a regular exclusive file) you are at 10.7% without factoring in loss of vetta or agency $$$. That means the other combined non-istock agencies have to own 75% market share for you to make up the difference.
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There is another snag here as well. Many older files uploaded say about five, six years back would probably not pass todays quality and technical barriers.
I know for a fact that some of my own files accepted at SS and IS, around 2006, would never pass todays technical aspects irrespective of subject matter.
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Extremely daunting but brave move and in a totally oversaturated market where supply is much higher then demand and where most other agencies are turning their screws tighter and tighter around contributors.
I know somebody almost exactly in your shoes and with almost exactly the same amount of files. He keeps a low profile, doesnt really want to talk, let alone write about it. He left the entire micro industry and uploaded all his thousands of files as RF instead.
Today, just over a year later he is doing very well, almost on par with his earlier earnings.
Wish you all the luck and as Lisa said, concentrate on SS at first, thats where your bread and butter will come from. :)
He left micro and uploaded all his files RF instead. Isn't micro RF. What are you telling us Christine?
Well Mildred, I am talking RF Macro, you know, Getty, Corbis, Alamy, etc, etc.
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Hi folks, just sharing the things after going to complete the 5th month... By the way, I'd like to hear also from other member that have left the exclusivity too how are the things doing on their side.
Well, I'm sorry to all for my delay, but it isn't not something to post daily. ;0)
Updating the other thread above where I said the agencies and files#, here is the update:
- Shutterstock (Lucato's Portfolio ([url]http://shutr.bz/IQOiyB[/url])) - 950 files, now it is 1524 files online (2400 submitted + 200 in the queue);
- Fotolia (Lucato's Portfolio ([url]http://us.fotolia.com/p/203033041/partner/203033041[/url])) - 149 files, now it is 1816 files online (2400 submitted + 200 in the queue);
- Dreamstime (Lucato's Portfolio ([url]http://www.dreamstime.com/resp590-images[/url])) - 1450 files, now it is 1656 files online (2400 submitted + 200 in the queue).
- iStockphoto (Lucato's Portfolio ([url]http://tinyurl.com/8wf2m9h[/url])) - 7189 files, now it is 7213 files online (24 submitted)
- Depositphotos (Lucato's Portfolio ([url]http://depositphotos.com/portfolio-1757833.html?ref=1757833[/url])) - new site, now it is 2553 files online (2600 submitted)
- BigStock (Lucato's Portfolio ([url]http://www.bigstockphoto.com/profile/9DBx6S0taf?refid=9DBx6S0taf[/url])) - new site, now it is 1521 files online (2400 submitted)
Regarding the iStock earnings, in sum it dropped 80% of my income by leaving the exclusivity (+ iStock sales drop), and the other agencies income didn't get close to this dropped value. So, for example if I used to make/earn 1k a month at iStock, it dropped to $200/month, and the others, no one get close to 50% of it yet and summing them all, doesn't reach what I was making as exclusive.
Well, it was a decision for not leaving all eggs in the same basket and as they cut our exclusivity earnings from 40% to 35% with the RC, and the sales went down drastically, plus a lot of bugs in the system, no FTP or other improvements in upload an so on. By knowing the other sites systems you see how iStock is old in its tecnology/system for editing/uploading images. Well, it is a long term and not for a short term results, I hope so, inspite of I'm in the 5th month that I've left the exclusivity. When I started at iStock I started to make my 1st $100 to withdraw a year or more too.
Well, in sum, if it is you only income and you have no reserves to hold this period of going down the hill, it is a big risk and I would advice you to not take it, plus if you're not a "workaholic", I would suggest you to stay as exclusive. Keep in the "comfort zone" even with the risks iStock is showing to have.
Besides that, you cannot take my data/portfolio as reference. I mean there are photographers with much less files and making much more money than I do/did. So, it will depend on your work/portfolio content/style too.
If you have in mind to move or not, I suggest you to ALWAYS save your images with the IPTC data for keywords, descriptions and categories. I didn't know that and you can imagine what a hard work I'm having with my 7200+ files to submit to other agencies. So, keep in mind this TIP/ADVICE!
Well, I hope that helps your future decision. Who knows in the next 5 months I post some other news. ;0)
As I said before, I'd like to hear also from other members that have left the exclusivity also and know how are the things doing on their sides too.
Thanks and have a nice day.
Very interesting and informative post Lucato. In the 5 months since you went exclusive my own iStock earnings, as an independent, have also dropped by 33% so a significant proportion of your losses may well have happened anyway.
I believe the long-term trend remains in your favour as an independent. At the time that you dropped exclusivity iStock were contributing 30% of my total earnings (not counting PP earnings). That has steadily dropped and this month iStock will probably only be about 19% __ and it looks like going lower too. This is due to both fewer sales at IS and also incredible growth at SS.
I would concur with Lisa's excellent advice to concentrate your uploading efforts to Shutterstock initially. This month SS will contribute about 49% to my total microstock earnings and it appears that they are getting stronger every month (at the expense of every other significant agency). Good luck and I'm sure that over the next few months you will conclude that you made the right decision.
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Lucato, thanks so much for the update. I continue to debate with myself over what point to leave iStock Exclusivity. I don't think I am at the point just yet for a number of reasons. Your report has been very helpful.
You're welcome StanRohrer. I know how this debate to ourselves is. :0) Keep following this thread. ;0)
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@LuisSantos84
- Shutterstock (Lucato's Portfolio ([url]http://shutr.bz/IQOiyB[/url])) - 950 files, now it is 1524 files online (2400 submitted + 200 in the queue);
its actually 876
No. Are you sure you haven't set some filters that are affecting your search results? It is really 1524 files online at SS. On the left column on the bottom try to clean your search setting by hitting the clear button.
Have a great Sunday.
I was talking about the number of rejections
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@Cobalt
I may be wrong, but I doubt that Lucato has many rejected files. If you are exclusive you really get to know the style that istock likes very well. Many exclusives have very high acceptance rates (over 90%).
However I wonder what kind of rejections he is receiving at the other agencies. Maybe he can share some insights or tips when he has time.
Hi Cobalt, these rejections in iStock or in the other agencies have a lot of factors.
Regarding the images were accepted in iStock doesn't mean they will pass in all other agencies, once there are people behind it and the agencies polices differ. Also a good point said by ClaridgeJ that "many older files uploaded say about five, six years back would probably not pass todays quality and technical barriers". Besides that they also will fall into "over supplied photo category" now a days, where five, six years ago they were building the data base and weren't flooded with certain category images. Well, as I said before, there are a little list of reasons such as:
- Some agencies now accepts images with at least 4MP while iStock used to accept lower sizes, so as I sent in lots/FTP it counted;
- other reject due similar tittle and description;
- similar image (like police do not crop, flip, color, etc);
- too much already in the database - (Oversuplied category);
- some agencies has just an automatic rejection if you pick some category like FLOWERS :0) ;
- other prefer that the image be more sharpened or less effects and so on...
- iStock is a pain with isolation standards;
- Other is so random that seems they have a certain number of rejections to reach due the flood of images received daily.
For example a DT police to follow:
Same subject, different colors - one image, collage.
Same subject, flipped, change perspective - one image, collage.
Subject A online, subject B online - don't submit Subject A+B.
Whole view of subject A - don't submit crops, rotates, fill corners, multiple 'stamps' of it etc.
Subject A isolated on white - don't submit same with background color changed.
Cheers.
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@Cobalt
For example a DT police to follow:
Same subject, different colors - one image, collage.
Same subject, flipped, change perspective - one image, collage.
Subject A online, subject B online - don't submit Subject A+B.
Whole view of subject A - don't submit crops, rotates, fill corners, multiple 'stamps' of it etc.
Subject A isolated on white - don't submit same with background color changed.
Cheers.
Blimey, "Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!" I'm only here for the beer. ;D
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:):D ;D :P
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@ Pancaketom
I do not envy you the task of getting all the iptc data on all those files. ugh. I am guessing that as soon as the iptc is done then you upload them everywhere. - a daunting task, that is for sure. For anyone starting out or for exclusives I second the advice to keyword etc. in the iptc.
I think that IS has been insulating exclusives (mainly by shafting independents it appears) from any downturns - unfortunately for them they seem to have run out of shafting to be done to independents, so the pain is starting to hit the exclusives. It will be a painful process to jump ship, and a long road to get back to the kind of earnings you made as an exclusive. Thanks for keeping us posted.
I agree it will be a long road to get bet the earnings I used to make at iStock, but even as exclusive the 2010 was The Best Year Ever and in 2012 the sales dropped 50~60% as exclusive. Well, I hope to get back soon to the earning I was making, otherwise I will need to find another way to make money like go back to work in th office. Knock on the wood. :0)
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@ ShadySue
Yes, thanks, Lucato. Very interesting reading, and not necessarily what I've have expected from your port going indie. (I'd have expected you to be exceeding your iStock exclusive earnings by now.) But clearly it's a long haul.
You're welcome. Yes a hard haul, actually I didn't expected to pair the income with iStock less than 6 months, but it seems will tack a year or more to pass it. I hope note.
Have a nice week.
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@jsnover
...However I wonder what kind of rejections he is receiving at the other agencies. Maybe he can share some insights or tips when he has time.
I'll give you some examples of iStock files of mine that have sold well that Shutterstock rejected (one of them I resubmitted saying that it had sold over 500 times on iStock and they accepted it; they had said it had LCV at first). In general, they don't much like dramatic light (and some of the rejects had been Vetta at iStock)
One ([url]http://www.istockphoto.com/stock-photo-16613930-lounge-chairs-amp-yellow-umbrellas-on-tranquil-grace-bay-beach.php[/url]), two ([url]http://www.istockphoto.com/stock-photo-9636005-margerie-glacier.php?st=1be0442[/url]), three ([url]http://www.istockphoto.com/stock-photo-20269624-sun-setting-over-grace-bay.php?st=1be0442[/url]), four ([url]http://www.istockphoto.com/stock-photo-11939423-first-light.php?st=1be0442[/url]), five ([url]http://www.istockphoto.com/stock-photo-8630265-capitol-view.php?st=1be0442[/url]), six ([url]http://www.istockphoto.com/stock-photo-12065002-austin-texas-capitol.php?st=1be0442[/url]), seven ([url]http://www.istockphoto.com/stock-photo-9188926-magens-bay-st-thomas.php?st=1be0442[/url]), eight ([url]http://www.istockphoto.com/stock-photo-9919216-driftwood-plank.php?st=1be0442[/url]).
On the other hand, iStock rejected some things that SS accepted and which sell well, such as this ([url]http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-92916232/stock-photo-grace-bay-beach-turks-caicos-with-the-setting-sun-at-the-horizon.html?src=5ebd9e06797fc303a8a7fc0e479f0763-1-2[/url]), this ([url]http://www.shutterstock.com/pic.mhtml?id=79599514[/url]) and this ([url]http://www.shutterstock.com/pic.mhtml?id=96812335[/url]), so it really is a roundabouts and swings situation. DT's most annoying thing is the ridiculous similars policy; otherwise, they're pretty reasonable.
Yes, It is so random or if you get some inspector with a not good mood in that day. Check also this post above (http://www.microstockgroup.com/15170/15170/msg277419/#msg277419). :0) Hey JoAnn, you're in the same boat too, right? I mean, you have left the exclusivity too, if I'm not wrong. Would you ming to give your feedback if possible telling how are the things going for you. How long have you quit the exclusivite? Did you get to make equal or pass the iStock income? What agencies are you working with? Do you intend to keep as independent? and whatever you want to share with use... ;0)
Have a nice week.
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@ClaridgeJ
Extremely daunting but brave move and in a totally oversaturated market where supply is much higher then demand and where most other agencies are turning their screws tighter and tighter around contributors.
Yes it is very daunting, but more scary is to keep all eggs in the same basket the ways iStock is driving its ship now a days. But I may agree with you the oversaturaded market, anyway there is room for everybody, but the profit won't be the same as before.
I know somebody almost exactly in your shoes and with almost exactly the same amount of files. He keeps a low profile, doesnt really want to talk, let alone write about it. He left the entire micro industry and uploaded all his thousands of files as RF instead.
Today, just over a year later he is doing very well, almost on par with his earlier earnings.
Thanks for sharing.
Wish you all the luck and as Lisa said, concentrate on SS at first, thats where your bread and butter will come from. :)
Thanks for your wishes and I'll follow this advice now for the next 2500 files to see how it goes. The only concern is what I said before, the ranking by sending all at once and not spreading as I was doing. :0)
Have a great week.
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@pro@stockphotos
If you take the your $$$$ % drop after leaving istock, and apply it to your commission rate you went from 35% to 7% commission on istock sales. I believe some of this due to falling sales but If you apply a 17% commission rate to non-exclusive files being cheaper (63% of a regular exclusive file) you are at 10.7% without factoring in loss of vetta or agency $$$. That means the other combined non-istock agencies have to own 75% market share for you to make up the difference.
Now I got a headache. :0) Thanks for your input.
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@ClaridgeJ
There is another snag here as well. Many older files uploaded say about five, six years back would probably not pass todays quality and technical barriers.
I know for a fact that some of my own files accepted at SS and IS, around 2006, would never pass todays technical aspects irrespective of subject matter.
Yes, good point! And as I said a little back also there is the "over supplied photo category" issue now a days, where five, six years ago they were building the data base and weren't flooded with certain category images.
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@gostwyck
Very interesting and informative post Lucato. In the 5 months since you went exclusive my own iStock earnings, as an independent, have also dropped by 33% so a significant proportion of your losses may well have happened anyway.
I believe the long-term trend remains in your favour as an independent. At the time that you dropped exclusivity iStock were contributing 30% of my total earnings (not counting PP earnings). That has steadily dropped and this month iStock will probably only be about 19% __ and it looks like going lower too. This is due to both fewer sales at IS and also incredible growth at SS.
I would concur with Lisa's excellent advice to concentrate your uploading efforts to Shutterstock initially. This month SS will contribute about 49% to my total microstock earnings and it appears that they are getting stronger every month (at the expense of every other significant agency). Good luck and I'm sure that over the next few months you will conclude that you made the right decision.
Thanks for your input and advices. I appreciated that. Have a nice week and good sales.
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@LuisSantos84
I was talking about the number of rejections
Ops, my fault. I'm sorry about that. Thanks.
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Yes, I was exclusive from 2008-11, having been independent from 2004-8 and since last June. As with you, 2010 was my best year (in spite of IS messing with the site in the busy season) and even before I left exclusivity in June 2011, things were down from the comparable month the prior year.
You can see which sites I contribute to from the links below my posts. We have monthly threads here where we discuss earnings, and you can see some of my recent posts here (http://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/september-2012-earnings-thread/msg274010/#msg274010), http://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/earnings-in-july-2012/msg265905/#msg265905 (http://[url=http://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/earnings-in-july-2012/msg265905/#msg265905)]here[/url] and here (http://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/april-earnings-15932/msg252885/#msg252885).
In terms of how things are going overall, it'll be easier to answer once the Sept - November stats are fully in, including PP sales from IS, which are getting later and later, but I think Sept 2012 will be about 85% of Sept 2010 (the PP numbers aren't all in). Down 15% doesn't seem too bad given the plummeting sales reports from many diamond exclusives.
Sept 2012 was up 54% over Sept 2011, so things continue to improve as the months go by, largely because SS is doing so well.
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Hey Lucato - good to see you went indie. I am sure I have probably posted this before, but I will link to my blog where you can see my stats again (just in case anyone missed it!) I have over 5 years of stats there now, both iS exclusive and indie. Cheers
http://stockcube-stockcube.blogspot.co.uk/ (http://stockcube-stockcube.blogspot.co.uk/)
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StockCube, you need to update your blog. Last post was Feb?
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Hi Lucato,
Iīm now one of the indies.
You can follow my progress here:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Cobaltstockcom/169793413171571 (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Cobaltstockcom/169793413171571)
I want to upload my files slowly and mix new images from fresh shootings with older files. I believe the main problem is that people underestimate how long it takes to attract repeat customers.
I also want to do more video.
How are you doing? Any recommendations...?
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Yes, I was exclusive from 2008-11, having been independent from 2004-8 and since last June. As with you, 2010 was my best year (in spite of IS messing with the site in the busy season) and even before I left exclusivity in June 2011, things were down from the comparable month the prior year.
You can see which sites I contribute to from the links below my posts. We have monthly threads here where we discuss earnings, and you can see some of my recent posts here ([url]http://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/september-2012-earnings-thread/msg274010/#msg274010[/url]), [url]http://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/earnings-in-july-2012/msg265905/#msg265905[/url] (http://[url=http://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/earnings-in-july-2012/msg265905/#msg265905)]here[/url] and here ([url]http://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/april-earnings-15932/msg252885/#msg252885[/url]).
In terms of how things are going overall, it'll be easier to answer once the Sept - November stats are fully in, including PP sales from IS, which are getting later and later, but I think Sept 2012 will be about 85% of Sept 2010 (the PP numbers aren't all in). Down 15% doesn't seem too bad given the plummeting sales reports from many diamond exclusives.
Sept 2012 was up 54% over Sept 2011, so things continue to improve as the months go by, largely because SS is doing so well.
jsnover: I think 85% of 2010 is quite good! I'm still exclusive at iStock and sales keep getting worse. I wouldn't be surprised if I drop the crown before the year is out. It just seems like such a daunting undertaking.
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Hi Lucato,
Iīm now one of the indies.
You can follow my progress here:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Cobaltstockcom/169793413171571 (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Cobaltstockcom/169793413171571)
I want to upload my files slowly and mix new images from fresh shootings with older files. I believe the main problem is that people underestimate how long it takes to attract repeat customers.
I also want to do more video.
How are you doing? Any recommendations...?
Hi Cobalt, good to hear from you! I have posted a bunch of things over there. We keep in touch. Have a nice Sunday and good luck in this new step.
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Hi Lucato,
thank you very much! I am a little shocked that Dreamstime is performing so poorly. From the site itself and the web traffic I would have thought they are a good agency.
And what has your experience been with fotolia?
If jsnover was able to recover 85 % of her 2010 earnings than she is already making more than many exclusives, who stayed exclusive and keep uploading.
I will try to get 600 files up in the next 2 months and then I will focus on mixing new and old while I shoot and upload.
Let's keep reporting our results, because many people are watching us ;)
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I am a little shocked that Dreamstime is performing so poorly. From the site itself and the web traffic I would have thought they are a good agency.
A couple of things you need to know about DT. Firstly it does take quite some time to build earnings at DT as your files need to to climb the Levels through sales. The vast majority of my sales nowadays are at Levels 4 & 5 so my RPD is at $2.60 this month (it's averaged about $2.40 over the last few months).
Not only does the price of images go up but so does the % royalty you receive too (between 25%-45%). A medium image sale at Level 0 will earn the contributor $1.25 whereas a medium sale at Level 5 will earn the contributor $9. That's a huge difference.
Another bizarre thing about DT is that the default sort-order appears to favour different contributors at different times on something like a 10-day cycle. It means that you end up with 10 days of 'feast' followed by 10 days of 'famine' and so on.
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..jsnover: I think 85% of 2010 is quite good! I'm still exclusive at iStock and sales keep getting worse. I wouldn't be surprised if I drop the crown before the year is out. It just seems like such a daunting undertaking.
November & December 2012 I matched my Nov & Dec 2010 exclusive earnings, so I was happy about that. This year will be different as I left iStock (all but my iStockalypse and editorial images) on D-day in February and just left Bigstock (over the lack of an opt out from their low-ball subscription program).
I'm well aware that my earnings will take a hit from this - and if SS reduces my royalties I won't hesitate to leave them too, and I'm expecting that will happen at some point this year, possibly after the 6 month window they gave the Bridge to Bigstock folks is up in August.
Regarding DT, my RPD is $2 and in Nov 2012 (my highest month of 2012) it was $1.82, however I still made more money total in November 2006 when they were making me half as much per download but the volume was better. I think their pricing model is a mess and that they could be so much better than they are.
In addition to the similars policy (don't upload a whole series that would be perfectly acceptable at any other agency; DT will rejeted all but a few and your approval percentage will take a hit), this apparent cycle that they maintain (it sounds insane, but you'll get a period with almost nothing but subs and then one with almost nothing but credit sales; I can't figure out why that would be), and some saying that your approval percentage factors in to your search placement, there has been talk in the past that you need to have your significant keywords in the title for best search placement.
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I have another question - do you guys make use of the option to upload exclusive images? My super secret plan involves making dedicated exclusive shootings for the different agencies to increase overall visibility of the whole portfolio. However I need to get a feeling for the agencies first to see what they sell best and also what style they sell best.
So if an agency is good at shooting lifestyle they get exclusive lifestyle, if somebody is good at selling my amateur food images, they get more food, if they sell backgrounds...etc...
I think this would work particularly well for regional content. If you know an agency is US centric I would try to make the models smile more, if I shoot for the German or European market, I could include local settings etc...
Longterm I would try to give an agency that takes exclusive images around 30% exclusive content.
If istock had the option of accepting exclusive files I would definetly send them good material.
Or do you think this is a bad idea and that I should just always send everything everywhere?
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Yes, I was exclusive from 2008-11, having been independent from 2004-8 and since last June. As with you, 2010 was my best year (in spite of IS messing with the site in the busy season) and even before I left exclusivity in June 2011, things were down from the comparable month the prior year.
You can see which sites I contribute to from the links below my posts. We have monthly threads here where we discuss earnings, and you can see some of my recent posts here ([url]http://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/september-2012-earnings-thread/msg274010/#msg274010[/url]), [url]http://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/earnings-in-july-2012/msg265905/#msg265905[/url] (http://[url=http://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/earnings-in-july-2012/msg265905/#msg265905)]here[/url] and here ([url]http://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/april-earnings-15932/msg252885/#msg252885[/url]).
In terms of how things are going overall, it'll be easier to answer once the Sept - November stats are fully in, including PP sales from IS, which are getting later and later, but I think Sept 2012 will be about 85% of Sept 2010 (the PP numbers aren't all in). Down 15% doesn't seem too bad given the plummeting sales reports from many diamond exclusives.
Sept 2012 was up 54% over Sept 2011, so things continue to improve as the months go by, largely because SS is doing so well.
I'm sorry for my delay. I saw that my microstock emails are not hitting me and some getting into spam folder which I detect today from cobalt I saw your and others latest replies. I will give a look on the links you post, thanks for sharing. I'll put soon a new table with the actual percentage as I put before comparing months to iStock income. Thanks for your input. ;0)
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Hey Lucato - good to see you went indie. I am sure I have probably posted this before, but I will link to my blog where you can see my stats again (just in case anyone missed it!) I have over 5 years of stats there now, both iS exclusive and indie. Cheers
[url]http://stockcube-stockcube.blogspot.co.uk/[/url] ([url]http://stockcube-stockcube.blogspot.co.uk/[/url])
Hey StockCube, thanks for your input and I'm sorry also for my delay. As I said above, I saw that my microstock emails are not hitting me and some getting into spam folder which I detect today from cobalt's email and I saw yours and others latest replies. I will also give a look into your link for the stats and so on. Thanks for sharing it. As I mentioned, I'll put soon a new table with the actual percentage as I put before comparing months to iStock income. Have a nice week. ;0)
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Hi Lucato,
thank you very much! I am a little shocked that Dreamstime is performing so poorly. From the site itself and the web traffic I would have thought they are a good agency.
And what has your experience been with fotolia?
If jsnover was able to recover 85 % of her 2010 earnings than she is already making more than many exclusives, who stayed exclusive and keep uploading.
I will try to get 600 files up in the next 2 months and then I will focus on mixing new and old while I shoot and upload.
Let's keep reporting our results, because many people are watching us ;)
@Cobalt and all folks.
Regarding my experience with Fotolia, is my 3rd agency "better" income as you can check on the table below. So, by taking the iStock earnings as 100% (as independent) you will see on the table below how many % represents each other agency monthly compared to my iStock income (as independent) from each month:
(http://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/experiences-after-quitting-istock-exclusivity/?action=dlattach;attach=11299;image)
So, based o the table above, you can notice that IS is my best income and the ShutterStock is my 2nd better income with a good monthly growth and always going up, on the other hand, DT is going down on the latest months. So, DT is the worst agency income for me lately. Fotolia as you had asked is in the 3rd position, but far away from SS which represents almost 68% of my income at iStock while Fotolia is just almost 8%. Well, enjoy the table and get your conclusions. ;0)
Well for those that don't want to read all these percentage numbers, for example if I get Feb/2013 and suppose that I've made $100.00 at iStock (as independent), I have made in the other agencies (ordered by earnings):
IS: $100.00
SS: $ 67.77
FL: $ 9.73
BS: $ 2.62
DT: $ 1.80
DF: $ 0.00 (Started this month)
PD: $ 0.00 (Started this month)
That was why I said as an advice from Lisa from here: "If I could just add a bit to that advice - Instead of uploading some images to each new site, and building your portfolio simultaneously on all new sites you are on, you might want to concentrate on getting all 7k images on each site at a time, in order of importance. For example, I would be focusing all my energies on getting my portfolio on SS right now. The sooner your port is up to high numbers there, the faster you will see your overall earnings jump. Once they're all up on SS, then move to DT, then FT, and so on, in order of the sites' earnings potential."
I hope that can be useful some way :0)
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That is very, very useful information, thank you very much!!
This is my first week of independence, well first few days, actually. So I am trying to get to know the agencies in general and I want to make sure I get something like 300-500 interesting images up on all sites in the next 4-6 weeks.
Then I will continue to upload a mix of video, new shootings and old files and I will, like Lisa suggested, give more importance to the sites that actually sell.
According to your table that should be Shutterstock.
But the one thing you havenīt tried to raise the visibility of your portfolio, if I understand correctly, is to give exclusive series or files to the different agencies.
Again, thank you. I will share when I have some new info, but it will be a few months before I have enough data about the overall market.
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You're welcome Cobalt.
Oww, a indie baby. :0) Yes, in my case, the Shutterstock is the far away the 2nd best income (post edited above).
Humm, I didn't get very well what you meant with "But the one thing you havenīt tried to raise the visibility of your portfolio, if I understand correctly, is to give exclusive series or files to the different agencies.". Maybe my language barrier. kkk. What did you want to mean that I didn't try to rise my visibility? Should I have given some exclusive files to achieve that? Would please elaborate it better. I'm sorry. :0)
Yes, we will share when we have some new info. My next update also will be a few months later until I have enough data about the overall market again and with the 2 new agencies.
Have a great week.
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I have another question - do you guys make use of the option to upload exclusive images? My super secret plan involves making dedicated exclusive shootings for the different agencies to increase overall visibility of the whole portfolio. However I need to get a feeling for the agencies first to see what they sell best and also what style they sell best.
So if an agency is good at shooting lifestyle they get exclusive lifestyle, if somebody is good at selling my amateur food images, they get more food, if they sell backgrounds...etc...
I think this would work particularly well for regional content. If you know an agency is US centric I would try to make the models smile more, if I shoot for the German or European market, I could include local settings etc...
Longterm I would try to give an agency that takes exclusive images around 30% exclusive content.
If istock had the option of accepting exclusive files I would definetly send them good material.
Or do you think this is a bad idea and that I should just always send everything everywhere?
I would strongly advise against it. The only agencies that offer exclusivity for images tend to be relatively low sellers like DT and FT. With DT the incentive is nothing like enough to make it economically viable. Some years ago I tried a few on FT, which were selling particularly well there (and not much elsewhere), and the incentive at the time (about 6x more per sale if I remember correctly) was good. Since then the incentive has been hugely reduced and anyway, because FT's default sort-order now only favours newish files, those previously best-sellers are hardly ever seen. My exclusive images with FT are now firmly buried and only rarely sell.
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Well gostwyck already answered my question. I meant exclusive images. You just take a series and upload it only to fotolia or dreams time.
Thank you for the input!
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The financial drop on istock comes from the much lower prices for indie files and the lower percentage. Basically you will immediatly earn 75% less, even if you have the same number of downloads.
My understanding of Lucatos table is that in February the earnings from all the other sites combined was around 80% of his istock earnings. But since these are just 25% of what he used to earn, he now gets around 40-50% of what he used to earn from istock when he was exclusive.
However, he still hasnīt uploaded all his 7000 files. And i donīt know how much new content he uploaded along the older files.
Actually if in 9 months I can get 50% of my last istock earnings with just a fraction of my portfolio I would consider it a great success.
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I am expecting it to take two years to get back to a level I feel comfortable with.
This is simply becuase by uploading to a new agency, you are entering a new marketplace. The customers need to get to know you as a reliable resource, they have to bookmark you, lightbox your files, "follow you" etc...Then the client has to approve the project and my files and then comes th download...and then a few months later the project gets extended and they download even more files etc...
The only variable is video. That is a new market and there is very little good content. And video files earn a lot more. So, if I learn how to make good videos, I might be able to speed up my income. But 18 months should be a minimum time frame. unless I become superhuman and can upload 500 files a month. But that is simply not possible unless I hire people. And at this time I donīt want to.
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What I understood from the table is that in february lucatos earn are 80% of the old earnings in iStock as exclusive. Pros and cons...
Cons: earning dropped
Pros: Not all the eggs in a basket; the money growing mounth by mounth; and 100% stated is refered at the old-gold days from 2010. I think that lucatos is happy, considering the fact that istock earning are dropping for all and at the end of february 2013 the 100% stated as base at the beginning of the series it's quietly impossible to reach at istock nowdays. Probably if lucatos was exclusive now, selling only at istock reach the 50% 60% of the old 100%.
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I don't think there is anything in the numbers about his old earnings the 80% is for that month at Istock, not compared to the past. Using his system if Istock is down then all the other numbers should be lower too since they are percentages of his Istock numbers.
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I realized that problably you are right
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What I understood from the table is that in february lucatos earn are 80% of the old earnings in iStock as exclusive.old 100%.
Nope, I'll edit my post. This 100% at iStock is my actual income at iStock as independent. I cant' compare the month by month independence with exclusivity, if I'm no more exclusive and can't have images at other sites if I'm exclusive. So, I'm comparing independence with independence. So, at iStock now a days with 18% comission as independent it represents the 100% (Exclusive now a days makes 35% if reaches the RC system) . So, as I posted before, if for example I've made at iStock as independent $100.00 in Feb/2013, based on the percentage at others also in Feb/2013 I've made...
IS: $100.00 (Independent)
SS: $ 67.77
FL: $ 9.73
BS: $ 2.62
DT: $ 1.80
DF: $ 0.00 (Started this month)
PD: $ 0.00 (Started this month)
Is that better now? ;0)
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I am expecting it to take two years to get back to a level I feel comfortable with.
This is simply becuase by uploading to a new agency, you are entering a new marketplace. The customers need to get to know you as a reliable resource, they have to bookmark you, lightbox your files, "follow you" etc...Then the client has to approve the project and my files and then comes th download...and then a few months later the project gets extended and they download even more files etc...
The only variable is video. That is a new market and there is very little good content. And video files earn a lot more. So, if I learn how to make good videos, I might be able to speed up my income. But 18 months should be a minimum time frame. unless I become superhuman and can upload 500 files a month. But that is simply not possible unless I hire people. And at this time I donīt want to.
Why so long? We plan to have our entire 5K+ portfolio up and running in at least 10 different MS sits in about 1 month after exclusivity ends.
We are 2 people though...
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I am expecting it to take two years to get back to a level I feel comfortable with.
This is simply becuase by uploading to a new agency, you are entering a new marketplace. The customers need to get to know you as a reliable resource, they have to bookmark you, lightbox your files, "follow you" etc...Then the client has to approve the project and my files and then comes th download...and then a few months later the project gets extended and they download even more files etc...
The only variable is video. That is a new market and there is very little good content. And video files earn a lot more. So, if I learn how to make good videos, I might be able to speed up my income. But 18 months should be a minimum time frame. unless I become superhuman and can upload 500 files a month. But that is simply not possible unless I hire people. And at this time I donīt want to.
Why so long? We plan to have our entire 5K+ portfolio up and running in at least 10 different MS sits in about 1 month after exclusivity ends.
We are 2 people though...
Good luck with it! I am sure with your 'go for it' attitude you will be very successful. Your track record of earnings growth on IS was extremely impressive, at least until Getty screwed it up for you. Less pondering, a bit less analysing and more doing is what really works. I really should do more of the latter and less of the former myself, if truth be told.
The finest definition of 'an expert' I ever heard was 'one that has made the most mistakes'.
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Why so long? We plan to have our entire 5K+ portfolio up and running in at least 10 different MS sits in about 1 month after exclusivity ends.
We are 2 people though...
I hope you and your partner really get to categorize and assign MR/PR for the 5K+ in 10 different MS in a month, which will be "50k+" images to be categorized one by one. Of course there are sites that don't need categories. Anyway I hope you get to accomplish it. Keep us updated and tell us how you made it. ;0)
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Lucato am I correct in reading your numbers to say that February was the first month you made more as an independent than as an exclusive, the other 9 months losing a considerable amount of money? Do you see your downloads dropping at Istock since going independent, because of a lower search position? That would cause the other %s to go up but would make the overall money still lower than as an exclusive. Thanks for sharing your numbers, it's valuable to know what's going on out there.
Hi, TickStock, no, you're reading it wrong. I'm comparing independence with independence.
Regarding downloads dropping at iStock they are dropping since I was exclusive. Check the image below and see how it started to drop since 2007...
(http://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/experiences-after-quitting-istock-exclusivity/?action=dlattach;attach=11301;image)
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I am expecting it to take two years to get back to a level I feel comfortable with.
This is simply becuase by uploading to a new agency, you are entering a new marketplace. The customers need to get to know you as a reliable resource, they have to bookmark you, lightbox your files, "follow you" etc...Then the client has to approve the project and my files and then comes th download...and then a few months later the project gets extended and they download even more files etc...
The only variable is video. That is a new market and there is very little good content. And video files earn a lot more. So, if I learn how to make good videos, I might be able to speed up my income. But 18 months should be a minimum time frame. unless I become superhuman and can upload 500 files a month. But that is simply not possible unless I hire people. And at this time I donīt want to.
I was expecting a year instead of two otherwise my savings won't survive until there. I have already started doing some extra jobs as workshops, photoshop classes and selling some old equipments that were on the shelves. ;0) See not easy task to quit exclusivity. I hope it will compensate in a very near future. ;0)
I don't trust too much that customers bookmark you and follow you. I think if you need an image for your image, they will use the keywords and find it and won't search what they need into anybody portfolio, even they like your work. Well, my opinion, unless you have a really quite different job, illustration or image series that they need for a campaign and so on.
Video is something that I really need to start with, the only problem here is time to manage it all. I didn't get to send half of my portfolio to other agencies yet. :0)
Hire people is an option, but not yet once I don't get to pay to myself now a days. kkkk
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So you feel like your Istock downloads now are about the same as if you stayed exclusive? I would expect a significant drop because exclusive files get a best match advantage.
As I said before, iStock is always dropping the downloads since 2007 as the table you saw. The previous total in 2011 was 6887 DL, and now on graph below you will see that 2012 was 4902 DL. Regarding the significant drop, you can see the months 1 to 4/2012 as exclusive and 5 to 12/2012 as non-exclusive (independent):
(http://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/experiences-after-quitting-istock-exclusivity/?action=dlattach;attach=11303;image)
But, pay attention, it is my case, you can't take my case as reference for everything. Of course there are people just growing at iStock. Each one has its style, better portfolio and so on. So my portfolio has not high level and professional model images and professional still images and so on. Anyway I know very talented exclusive photographers with very high professional images that are on the same boat. ;0)
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Thanks for the information. I have to say those numbers don't make going independent look very good. I hope things turn around for you this year, good luck.
are you reading the same stats as I? how could Lucato be better with exclusivity? he will do fine soon
2007 - 20k
2008 - 15k
2009 - 15k
2010 - 10k
2011 - 7k
2012 - 5k
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Thanks for the information. I have to say those numbers don't make going independent look very good. I hope things turn around for you this year, good luck.
are you reading the same stats as I? how could Lucato be better with exclusivity? he will do fine soon
2007 - 20k
2008 - 15k
2009 - 15k
2010 - 10k
2011 - 7k
2012 - 5k
I won't bore you with the calculations but basically there was a considerable drop in downloads after giving up exclusivity, it's clear from the graph what happens to the blue part. For the independent income to be equal to exclusive income the total of all the independent sites would need to be 300% of Istock income assuming that Istock downloads stayed the same, they dropped so one would need over 300% from the other sites.
yep I know the 3.5 times but does that mean that 4k this year and 3k in 2014 would be still cool to stay at iStock? come on... who can keep up and be safe with that trend?
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Why so long? Because your files need to move into customer lightboxes and your images need to rise in the search engines. There is lots of superb indepedent content, the customers have not been waiting for you.
It is the same way like opening any other webshop, or a store on amazon and ebay, even if all your products are available for sale immediatly, you will not earn as much as in 2 years when you have a loyal following of repeat customers.
The other thing is best match. If you upload all files one month then all your files have the same "time stamp". If files from that particular month are out of favor, you're 5000 files will all rise and drop together in the time factor of a best match.
Anyway, good luck with your system. If you can of course then continue to keep adding high volumes of new content every month, maybe it will work.
Please let us know your results.
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Hi Lucato,
do you think you could give us a table comparing your current earnings with your previous exclusive earnings?
If you take an average exckusive income and set that as 100% and then add a second column with your total indie earnings. And then show us how did it all develop over time.
I think you are currently at 40% of your previous exclusive income. Is that correct?
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Why so long? We plan to have our entire 5K+ portfolio up and running in at least 10 different MS sits in about 1 month after exclusivity ends.
We are 2 people though...
I hope you and your partner really get to categorize and assign MR/PR for the 5K+ in 10 different MS in a month, which will be "50k+" images to be categorized one by one. Of course there are sites that don't need categories. Anyway I hope you get to accomplish it. Keep us updated and tell us how you made it. ;0)
That is the main time consumer indeed, uploading 100gb+ to each site also takes time, but 1 month after exclusivity ends + 30 days notice to IS = 2 months, which is quite a lot of time with 2 people and my new 3mb upload DSL helps :)
gostwyck: thanks a lot, I hope for the best but it is a bit difficult to be optimistic after such a bad year. I feel like a beaten wife leaving her abusive husband.
Cobalt: an income hit is expected, I was talking of the time needed to get the port up and running at the different MS sites, with the "big 4" being a priority. The faster they get there the less you lose. I do plan to open a new thread on our experience and share what ever I can so maybe I can help the others who are considering doing the same, but we still have 3 weeks waiting period at IS and anyways this is Lucato's thread :)
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...and anyways this is Lucato's thread :)
No aeonf, it is for the community, this isn't my thread to talk only about my experiences after quitting iStock exclusivity. You and anyone is very welcome to put yours experiences too. ;0)
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Hi Lucato,
if you write to depositphotos that you have many files but have little time they will help you upload and edit your files to get them online faster. They just made me that offer last, I am sure they would offer the same to you.
I wrote back that for now I want to try doing it myself, but because deposit is a smaller site, perhaps I will take them up on that offer.
@aeonf
I have seen many exclusives go indie "dump" their portfolios quickly on the other site, often with the help from the agencies themselves and then be very dissapointed with the results. And since they have great content my theory is that they just sent them up too fast and best match seasonalities worked against them.
But if you put your files online fast and then share your results we can all see what strategy works best longterm.
It also all depends on how many new files you can generate. I can only do 50-100 a month, so I wanted to add the older files for regular uploads.
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Hi Lucato,
do you think you could give us a table comparing your current earnings with your previous exclusive earnings?
If you take an average exckusive income and set that as 100% and then add a second column with your total indie earnings. And then show us how did it all develop over time.
I think you are currently at 40% of your previous exclusive income. Is that correct?
Hi Cobalt, sure. Here is the table, but far away from 40% :0(, but the total is growing little by little monthly. :0)
Well, considering I've left exclusivity on April/12, I got the data from a year before, May/11 through Feb/12 (Exclusive) to compare with May/12 through Feb/13 as indie.
So, here is the data and a total on the end summing up all agencies % income:
(http://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/experiences-after-quitting-istock-exclusivity/?action=dlattach;attach=11305;image)
Just as a curiosity to show how the income drops after quitting the exclusivity, here is also a little graphic:
(http://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/experiences-after-quitting-istock-exclusivity/?action=dlattach;attach=11307;image)
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Hi Lucato,
if you write to depositphotos that you have many files but have little time they will help you upload and edit your files to get them online faster. They just made me that offer last, I am sure they would offer the same to you.
I wrote back that for now I want to try doing it myself, but because deposit is a smaller site, perhaps I will take them up on that offer.
I already knew that, anyway thanks for the tip. ;0)
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I have another question - do you guys make use of the option to upload exclusive images? My super secret plan involves making dedicated exclusive shootings for the different agencies to increase overall visibility of the whole portfolio. However I need to get a feeling for the agencies first to see what they sell best and also what style they sell best.
So if an agency is good at shooting lifestyle they get exclusive lifestyle, if somebody is good at selling my amateur food images, they get more food, if they sell backgrounds...etc...
I think this would work particularly well for regional content. If you know an agency is US centric I would try to make the models smile more, if I shoot for the German or European market, I could include local settings etc...
Longterm I would try to give an agency that takes exclusive images around 30% exclusive content.
If istock had the option of accepting exclusive files I would definetly send them good material.
Or do you think this is a bad idea and that I should just always send everything everywhere?
I would strongly advise against it. The only agencies that offer exclusivity for images tend to be relatively low sellers like DT and FT. With DT the incentive is nothing like enough to make it economically viable. Some years ago I tried a few on FT, which were selling particularly well there (and not much elsewhere), and the incentive at the time (about 6x more per sale if I remember correctly) was good. Since then the incentive has been hugely reduced and anyway, because FT's default sort-order now only favours newish files, those previously best-sellers are hardly ever seen. My exclusive images with FT are now firmly buried and only rarely sell.
My experiences exactly. If SS had an exclusive IMAGE offering, given their volume of sales, I'd consider putting some of my more unique stuff there as exclusive. There, we might see some actual benefit from image exclusivity.
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I don't think contributor exclusivity makes sense for anyone but if DT offered the same deal for exclusive images as exclusive contributors I'd strongly consider making my level 4s and 5s exclusive - even for an XS I've been getting $4-$5 and, even though sales volumes for these images are much higher on SS and FT, I'd make more money.
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Thank you for the new table Lucato. So after 9 months your indie earnings are 21%
But what about your indie istock earnings? Are they included in the 21%? Or would that be another column for your table ;)? Maybe then your total earnings are higher?
Everyone else, thank you for your input. I think this discussion will help everyone who is considering to go independent.
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I don't think contributor exclusivity makes sense for anyone but if DT offered the same deal for exclusive images as exclusive contributors I'd strongly consider making my level 4s and 5s exclusive - even for an XS I've been getting $4-$5 and, even though sales volumes for these images are much higher on SS and FT, I'd make more money.
DT does offer image exclusivity, and contributor exclusivity.....both.
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But what about your indie istock earnings? Are they included in the 21%? Or would that be another column for your table ;)? Maybe then your total earnings are higher?
No Cobalt, the iStock itself as indie was not included. Well noticed. I'll generate a new one with iStock indie included.
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Cobalt, here is the table with iStock indie included:
(http://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/experiences-after-quitting-istock-exclusivity/?action=dlattach;attach=11309;image)
Now, no more tables until some months ahead. :0) I need to go back and upload and categorize images. kkkk. Just kidding.
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AHA!!! Nearly 50% after 9 months and you still have thousands of files to upload. Very encouraging!!!
Could you post this table on your facebookpage (for the public) then I would repost it on my own page for cobalt stock.
This is very good news, indeed.
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AHA!!! Nearly 50% after 9 months and you still have thousands of files to upload. Very encouraging!!!
Could you post this table on your facebookpage (for the public) then I would repost it on my own page for cobalt stock.
This is very good news, indeed.
Sure, as soon as I do it, I'll let you know.
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Here it goes:
http://tinyurl.com/brjcjzt (http://tinyurl.com/brjcjzt)
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AHA!!! Nearly 50% after 9 months and you still have thousands of files to upload. Very encouraging!!!
Could you post this table on your facebookpage (for the public) then I would repost it on my own page for cobalt stock.
This is very good news, indeed.
That's encouraging? Down 66% over 9 months. I hope Lucato's trend keeps getting better but at this rate it will be 5 years before he breaks even.
You're forgetting to factor in rapidly diminishing sales at iStock, affecting exclusives as well as indies. If they don't get things sorted, there won't be an iStock in 5 years.
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...but at this rate it will be 5 years before he breaks even
I hope you are not a fortune teller. :0)
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I don't think contributor exclusivity makes sense for anyone but if DT offered the same deal for exclusive images as exclusive contributors I'd strongly consider making my level 4s and 5s exclusive - even for an XS I've been getting $4-$5 and, even though sales volumes for these images are much higher on SS and FT, I'd make more money.
DT does offer image exclusivity, and contributor exclusivity.....both.
Yes but the commissions currently for exclusive images are way short of that for exclusive contributor images so not the same deal and not attractive enough to cover loss of sales on other sites.
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I see you have some Getty sales are those from photos that they never removed from Getty? Good luck and again, thanks for all the information.
Yes, I think these are stuck there.
The same to you and have a nice week.
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I am a little shocked that Dreamstime is performing so poorly. From the site itself and the web traffic I would have thought they are a good agency.
A couple of things you need to know about DT. Firstly it does take quite some time to build earnings at DT as your files need to to climb the Levels through sales. The vast majority of my sales nowadays are at Levels 4 & 5 so my RPD is at $2.60 this month (it's averaged about $2.40 over the last few months).
Not only does the price of images go up but so does the % royalty you receive too (between 25%-45%). A medium image sale at Level 0 will earn the contributor $1.25 whereas a medium sale at Level 5 will earn the contributor $9. That's a huge difference.
Another bizarre thing about DT is that the default sort-order appears to favour different contributors at different times on something like a 10-day cycle. It means that you end up with 10 days of 'feast' followed by 10 days of 'famine' and so on.
Good post but you left out the part about Subscriptions. ;D
I'm selling Level 4 images for 35 cents. The good part of that is that each sale leads to an increase in the Level.
The bad part is: Level 5 images are also sold for 35 cents. >:(
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I read a post in this thread, from Cobalt, I think, about stretching out the uploads. I can't find it now but it seems that it was recommending to upload large batches judiciously to avoid a nuance in the search engine that causes all images with the same "date stamp" to drop in search as a batch ... regardless of popularity.
Did I interpret that correctly?
If so, the review process at SS is REALLY hurting us. Images posted over a period of time on different dates are being reviewed as one batch, regardless of upload date.
How do you approach that problem?
And thanks for the info about "date/time stamp" peculiarity.
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If so, the review process at SS is REALLY hurting us. Images posted over a period of time on different dates are being reviewed as one batch, regardless of upload date.
How do you approach that problem?
we don't, pretty much we upload, the batch gets bigger and when approved we are already on the 7th page looking for newest content, SS doesn't feel anything, actually they save a lot of dosh, anyway I believe that good files will come up...
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@warrenprice
The only solution for that is to wait until the previous batch is approved. Maybe switch to uploading all files once every two weeks if that helps.
I am too new to see what time frame would be best. But in the end as long as sou have regular monthly uploads you should be ok. I just kow people who went indie and then brought all their files online within the first 6 weeks and then wondered a few months later hy their files are no longer showing up in searches.
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AHA!!! Nearly 50% after 9 months and you still have thousands of files to upload. Very encouraging!!!
Could you post this table on your facebookpage (for the public) then I would repost it on my own page for cobalt stock.
This is very good news, indeed.
That's encouraging? Down 66% over 9 months. I hope Lucato's trend keeps getting better but at this rate it will be 5 years before he breaks even.
You're forgetting to factor in rapidly diminishing sales at iStock, affecting exclusives as well as indies. If they don't get things sorted, there won't be an iStock in 5 years.
I don't think it's that dire. My numbers are down a bit but nowhere near 66% and I think the main reason they are down is because of the effort I've put in over the last year.
If you remember the graphs of downloads posted by Sean and several others a couple of months ago, the numbers were horrifically down. In fact if you extrapolated the data forward then Istock, at the current rate of decline, would actually have zero sales in 18-24 months. Obviously the past is no guide to the future and we don't know how representative of overall sales those graphs were but nonetheless the situation appears to be very serious. It really is 'that dire'. The constant price increases may be masking the reality somewhat but that's no reason for complacency.
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If there are no dls, it doesn't matter how much each one would theoretically cost.
I don't remember seeing that post - I must have glazed over it.
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The top selling photo at Istock over the last year has probably made about 5 times the top selling photo on Shutterstock (for the contributor) and in fact Yuri has 3 photos that made significantly more on Istock than the best selling photo on Shutterstock.
how do you know this? I do remember Yuri saying here that maybe he would have been better with IS exclusivity but its impossible to know what could have happened for him or with other top contributors
if iStock is/was such a great place we wouldn't have many top contributors bailing out and joining efforts at Stocksy, sure many are still doing well like you said but things end up for some why wouldn't they end for other in the future? Lucato is a great example of that, having 20k downloads in 2007 (not even 5k in 2012) and we aren't talking about a small portfolio, its a very big drop no?
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The top selling photo at Istock over the last year has probably made about 5 times the top selling photo on Shutterstock (for the contributor) and in fact Yuri has 3 photos that made significantly more on Istock than the best selling photo on Shutterstock.
how do you know this? I do remember Yuri saying here that maybe he would have been better with IS exclusivity but its impossible to know what could have happened for him or with other top contributors
if iStock is/was such a great place we wouldn't have many top contributors bailing out and joining efforts at Stocksy, sure many are still doing well like you said but things end up for some why wouldn't they end for other in the future? Lucato is a great example of that, having 20k downloads in 2007 (not even 5k in 2012) and we aren't talking about a small portfolio, its a very big drop no?
Sent you a message.
Which top contributors are bailing for Stocksy? I can't think of any.
Lucato is down 66% compared to last year, I think that is much worse than if he stayed exclusive. Time will tell if it was a good move and I hope it works out for him but right now he's down a lot. (I doubt it's much consolation that his downloads are probably up since the $ are down so dramatically)
sure I don't know if they are bailing for Stocksy but it does look like that, I am not going to say who they are here but they have been mentioned in this forum many times before in the latest threads (I consider a top contributor from 25k/50k up)
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sure I don't know if they are bailing for Stocksy but it does look like that, I am not going to say who they are here but they have been mentioned in this forum many times before in the latest threads
I haven't seen them yet, maybe they'll come out next week?
yep on the 25th
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I came across a couple interesting things recently. The top selling photo at Istock over the last year has probably made about 5 times the top selling photo on Shutterstock (for the contributor) and in fact Yuri has 3 photos that made significantly more on Istock than the best selling photo on Shutterstock. Maybe in the past the best selling photos on Istock made even more than that compared to Shutterstock? There are a lot of people doing well at Istock still, they just don't post here or on the forums there very often if ever. I remember from the end of year thread someone posted that they had the same downloads but made $50,000 more last year, so downloads definitely aren't the whole story.
How can you possibly know what the best-selling image at SS (or at IS for that matter) actually made? You can't unless you happened to have been a senior employee with both agencies.
There's a few people that claim to have increased earnings at IS but, when you actually click on their portfolio, it invariably turns out that they doubled or trebled their portfolio size during the year. There's a lot more people with sizeable mature portfolios, like Sean and fotovoyager for example, who are reporting staggeringly drops in downloads.
Downloads defintely will become 'the whole story' before too long, even for a newbie like you with a growing portfolio. Your optimistic posts about the benefits of exclusivity are almost identical to those of a certain contributor here ... until a few months ago. They have just ditched their crown.
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I cannot imagine anyone quit exclusivity in the last 12 months for stocksy. I certainly didn't, I didn't even know about it until leaf broke the news.
The place isn't open for buiness yet and has no customers.
I went independent because all the drama and bad management decisions of the last 2 years and especially the last 6 months. And then the Microsoft deal and the getty/google deal.
The traffic for istock is falling continuosly, it never goes back up. Istock must be losing customers on a massive scale. Everyone I knew who used to buy from istock has turned away over all the IT issues and the extremly high prices. Nobody ever goes back to istock.
And here in Germany many photographers supply Fotolia with exclusive content and do extremly well there. The best known blogger is averaging over 10k a month while being independent. And he stopped supplying istock in 2010.
His earnings and those of many others are growing well.
I think maybe 2 years ago, or 18 months ago probably as an exclusive you would have made more. But I believe with the continuing drop in downloads and focus on Thinkstock and Getty, the exclusives cannot win.
istock is just a brand fighting a losing battle for attention between all the other Getty brands. They have fired a lot of high quality staff, they have closed the office in Berlin and even the German forum no longer has a dedicated moderator and community builder.
If they don't even have money for that, than for me as a European contributor it means I have to pay attention to the agencies that are investing and building their presence in Europe.
I know it will take time to build up my portfolio on other sites. But in the end I simply have to go where the customers are going.
I have waited a long, long time to see if they will reverse the trend, but I don't see the slightest indication that the customers are coming back.
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I cannot imagine anyone quit exclusivity in the last 12 months for stocksy. I certainly didn't, I didn't even know about it until leaf broke the news.
The place isn't open for buiness yet and has no customers.
I went independent because all the drama and bad management decisions of the last 2 years and especially the last 6 months. And then the Microsoft deal and the getty/google deal.
The traffic for istock is falling continuosly, it never goes back up. Istock must be losing customers on a massive scale. Everyone I knew who used to buy from istock has turned away over all the IT issues and the extremly high prices. Nobody ever goes back to istock.
And here in Germany many photographers supply Fotolia with exclusive content and do extremly well there. The best known blogger is averaging over 10k a month while being independent. And he stopped supplying istock in 2010.
His earnings and those of many others are growing well.
I think maybe 2 years ago, or 18 months ago probably as an exclusive you would have made more. But I believe with the continuing drop in downloads and focus on Thinkstock and Getty, the exclusives cannot win.
istock is just a brand fighting a losing battle for attention between all the other Getty brands. They have fired a lot of high quality staff, they have closed the office in Berlin and even the German forum no longer has a dedicated moderator and community builder.
If they don't even have money for that, than for me as a European contributor it means I have to pay attention to the agencies that are investing and building their presence in Europe.
I know it will take time to build up my portfolio on other sites. But in the end I simply have to go where the customers are going.
I have waited a long, long time to see if they will reverse the trend, but I don't see the slightest indication that the customers are coming back.
Same here.
1) All the drama is very distracting - you never know what they are going to do next, only that it never seems to be good for contributors.
2) The IS exclusive contract is far too restrictive - when things start to go bad, it doesn't give you much opportunity to do anything to improve your situation.
3) When we quit IS exclusivity, our income was 2/3 of our BME, and we thought things would only get worse at IS, and it seems they have.
Although we are earning less, we now have fingers in lots of other pies. It's still early days, but they are starting to pay off. Cobalt will not regret her decision, I'm sure. She's giving it two years, and she's given a lot of thought to her strategy, just as we have done.
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I came across a couple interesting things recently. The top selling photo at Istock over the last year has probably made about 5 times the top selling photo on Shutterstock (for the contributor) and in fact Yuri has 3 photos that made significantly more on Istock than the best selling photo on Shutterstock. Maybe in the past the best selling photos on Istock made even more than that compared to Shutterstock? There are a lot of people doing well at Istock still, they just don't post here or on the forums there very often if ever. I remember from the end of year thread someone posted that they had the same downloads but made $50,000 more last year, so downloads definitely aren't the whole story.
How can you possibly know what the best-selling image at SS (or at IS for that matter) actually made? You can't unless you happened to have been a senior employee with both agencies.
There's a few people that claim to have increased earnings at IS but, when you actually click on their portfolio, it invariably turns out that they doubled or trebled their portfolio size during the year. There's a lot more people with sizeable mature portfolios, like Sean and fotovoyager for example, who are reporting staggeringly drops in downloads.
Downloads defintely will become 'the whole story' before too long, even for a newbie like you with a growing portfolio. Your optimistic posts about the benefits of exclusivity are almost identical to those of a certain contributor here ... until a few months ago. They have just ditched their crown.
Sent you a PM. I've been around for a few years now and know what the other sites have to offer.
Yes you did. Your logic is flawed, selective in the data used and based on both guesswork and extraplotating 3-month data to a year. It doesn't work like that.
Anyway, even if your guesswork was correct, what does that indicate or prove? Even if it were true that my best-selling image on IS made more than it's equivalent on SS (not the case), so what?
What does matter is the performance of an entire portfolio over a considerable period of time. My SS portfolio is now earning more than double that of my IS port and the differential is, quite literally, increasing month by month. The truth is my SS earnings are steadily increasing (on target for yet another BME this month) whilst my IS earnings are in decline __ like most mature portfolios are reporting.
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I went independent because all the drama and bad management decisions of the last 2 years and especially the last 6 months. And then the Microsoft deal and the getty/google deal.
The traffic for istock is falling continuosly, it never goes back up. Istock must be losing customers on a massive scale. Everyone I knew who used to buy from istock has turned away over all the IT issues and the extremly high prices. Nobody ever goes back to istock.
Same here...
+ Cut earnings from 40% to 35% and applying the new RC for old contributors instead of applying new rules for new members;
+ Referrals not works as expected or better, doesn't work at all;
+ Forums terrible to search and use;
+ Search results with a lot of problems
+ The way IS is going lately, I wanted to avoid keeping all eggs in the same basket and opted to spread my work (product) to other agencies (stores);
+ so on...
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two days left of exclusivity. I know it will be tough. it was time. have to say, the Shutterstock uploading process is great. opted out until independence day of course, but getting my files on board. excited for other ventures too ;)
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^ I have read just about everything I can get my hands on. I'll certainly be uploading carefully and gradually as I do elsewhere.
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strategy is a to-each-his-own kind of thing. not too worried about a consensus, but I think anyone in similar positions should be doing their homework.
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two days left of exclusivity. I know it will be tough. it was time. have to say, the Shutterstock uploading process is great. opted out until independence day of course, but getting my files on board. excited for other ventures too ;)
I honestly never thought this day would come. If Istock has managed to lose loyal exclusives like you, Stacy, they are really FUBAR.
Good luck with independence. I know your port will do well wherever you put it. :)
PM or e-mail me if there's anything you need to know that I can help with...
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SNP: quite a surprise! good luck!!
Care to share the results of your homework?
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I think the numbers are correct and may even be slightly biased in favor of Shutterstock. It's not supposed to indicate anything about your portfolio or anyone's for that matter, the point was that the best selling files on Istock make more than the best selling files on Shutterstock still even though downloads are going down, that is a factual statement not an opinion. You can make what you want out of that, I think it shows that one can still make a lot of money on Istock and reports of Istock's imminent collapse are exaggerated.
I don't care to guess other people's numbers but my own (factual) best-selling images, in earnings order, at the various agencies are as follows;
1 - SS
2 - IS
3 - SS
4 - SS
5 - IS
6 - IS
7 - SS
8 - DT
9 - IS
10 - IS
I think it quite possible that my actual top earning images are 3 of my exclusive images at FT but I can't find any way to extract earnings for individual images and anyway, the images were exclusive so it would not be a fair comparison.
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Thanks Lisa, you're always so supportive. I'm taking it one day at a time but certainly have been planning the move carefully. There are lots of irons in the fire and it's an exciting time. I know it's going to take hard work and I have realistic expectations, but having control over my work and feeling good about the agenc(ies) selling my work is most important to me. As I said, it was time and the decision wasn't difficult, which tells me it's right.
as for my research, it's just common sense. contacting support, reading forums, speaking to those in the know and jumping in head first....that's about it.
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Welcome aboard SNP and good luck in your new steps.
Feel free to share your experiences as indie here and free also to contact me if you want to.
Have a nice week.
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Wow! SNP too! I never thought that would happen. Good luck to you 'out here'. I'm sure you'll do well.
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Wow, Stacey. Actually, based on some of the questions you've been asking recently in the forums over there I thought you may be dropping the crown.
Best of luck to you. You've made the right decision and I'm sure there will be many following you shortly, myself included.
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some people need to get a life really, why giving a minus to Stacey post?
best of luck ;D
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thanks all. I've been a little quiet about it, it's a bittersweet thing. I really dislike that iStock and Getty put us in a position to have to make such drastic changes, but they did and
many some of us exclusives were primed to walk the plank. who knew that the sharks were actually kinda friendly :P
I'm excited about things to come, felt like posting in here today for advice as I begin life as an indie on March 20.
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thanks all. I've been a little quiet about it, it's a bittersweet thing. I really dislike that iStock and Getty put us in a position to have to make such drastic changes, but they did and many some of us exclusives were primed to walk the plank. who knew that the sharks were actually kinda friendly :P
I'm excited about things to come, felt like posting in here today for advice as I begin life as an indie on March 20.
Good luck with your future endeavours.
They certainly seem to be going out all guns blazing to alienate contributors.
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some people need to get a life really, why giving a minus to Stacey post?
best of luck ;D
Well, if i had to guess i would say it might be because of the many millions of time she called people here names because we all knew where this was headed months/years ago while she remained loyal to istock. The many times she said we were all naysayers and paranoid and we needed tin foil hats. And it was our fault what was happening to istock. Blah,blah, blah. Need i go on?
For me, she isnt worth a plus or a minus. Sure would be nice to see an apology from her for all those nasty things she said about how ignorant everyone here was, but i seriously doubt THATS ever going to happen here. ::)
She even went a couple of rounds with lisafx but looks like they are on the same team now. :D
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thanks all. I've been a little quiet about it, it's a bittersweet thing. I really dislike that iStock and Getty put us in a position to have to make such drastic changes, but they did and many some of us exclusives were primed to walk the plank. who knew that the sharks were actually kinda friendly :P
I'm excited about things to come, felt like posting in here today for advice as I begin life as an indie on March 20.
Good luck Stacey and well done on making a tough decision. I think you've probably got the timing about right.
Concentrate your efforts on uploading to SS first. Trust me, nothing else really matters as much as that to an indie. Most indies report that SS generates about 50% of total income (and growing) and IS nowadays maybe 18-25%. All the other agencies together might amount to the other 25% and even the more important of them, DT and FT, tend to be slow starters when it comes to generating income. Always upload an image, any image, to SS first because that is where it is most likely to earn the most money. Much better that you have your entire portfolio on SS and none whatsoever anywhere else rather than you try to upload uniformly to all agencies. (NB: See Lucato's stat's for the proof of that.)
I would be extremely cautious about uploading early before you images can go 'live'. Early sales can be critical to a file's long-term success. Having a file go 'live' when it is already 2-3 weeks old (by file number) could shove it so far down the New Images order that it might never be seen. Subscription buyers in particular are always interested in new content but I'm not sure how far down they delve, especially if they think they've already seen 'those' new images when they come across some that might actually have been uploaded well after yours.
Welcome to the Dark Side and the very best of luck to you! Don't hesitate to PM me if you have any questions.
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some people need to get a life really, why giving a minus to Stacey post?
best of luck ;D
Well, if i had to guess i would say it might be because of the many millions of time she called people here names because we all knew where this was headed months/years ago while she remained loyal to istock. The many times she said we were all naysayers and paranoid and we needed tin foil hats. And it was our fault what was happening to istock. Blah,blah, blah. Need i go on?
For me, she isnt worth a plus or a minus. Sure would be nice to see an apology from her for all those nasty things she said about how ignorant everyone here was, but i seriously doubt THATS ever going to happen here. ::)
She even went a couple of rounds with lisafx but looks like they are on the same team now. :D
Fine IS sucks... but it's hard to replace the GI/IS royalty per download. I have a PM from Yuri commenting to tiny royalties of Indies. IS dl's are averaging over $13 per download while GI sales averaged $43 per download for me in Jan. And not only a few dls. So no wonder it is hard to give that up, facing $.25 downloads is a hard decision. It will be interesting if Sean reveals his changes in earnings.
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some people need to get a life really, why giving a minus to Stacey post?
best of luck ;D
Well, if i had to guess i would say it might be because of the many millions of time she called people here names because we all knew where this was headed months/years ago while she remained loyal to istock. The many times she said we were all naysayers and paranoid and we needed tin foil hats. And it was our fault what was happening to istock. Blah,blah, blah. Need i go on?
For me, she isnt worth a plus or a minus. Sure would be nice to see an apology from her for all those nasty things she said about how ignorant everyone here was, but i seriously doubt THATS ever going to happen here. ::)
She even went a couple of rounds with lisafx but looks like they are on the same team now. :D
Fine IS sucks... but it's hard to replace the GI/IS royalty per download. I have a PM from Yuri commenting to tiny royalties of Indies. IS dl's are averaging over $13 per download while GI sales averaged $43 per download for me in Jan. And not only a few dls. So no wonder it is hard to give that up, facing $.25 downloads is a hard decision. It will be interesting if Sean reveals his changes in earnings.
Tough *. Suck it up.
No harder or different than original trad shooters having to accept vastly fewer sales, and later at lower prices, when microstock arose. You have no right to expect or demand $13 per sale in microstock. That's not what it's about or ever was. When Istock's prices went through the roof it was only ever going to be a matter of time before sales went through the floor. Economics 1.01.
The stupid thing is that IS claim to have 'invented' microstock ... and then gave it all away, without even a fight, to another business that simply stuck, more or less, to Istock's own original business plan. That's Getty for you though. Too arrogant to learn, accept and adapt to the new market. The perfect recipe for the demise of a previously successful business. More fool you for believing in them.
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I'm not interested in resurrecting any drama around here. I thought we'd all grown up by now.
I appreciate the majority of the well wishes and as those of you know who I chat with via messages etc., at the end of the day our interests are the same. I'm not looking for handouts or wooyays. it will be tough for a while and I know it.
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Concentrate your efforts on uploading to SS first. Trust me, nothing else really matters as much as that to an indie. Most indies report that SS generates about 50% of total income (and growing) and IS nowadays maybe 18-25%. All the other agencies together might amount to the other 25% and even the more important of them, DT and FT, tend to be slow starters when it comes to generating income.
Hey Gostwyck and folks, other day I saw a graphic and seems that ALAMY is a good seller agency too, I don't know this one. Do you know it, upload to it, have any comments on it? Does anybody else upload to ALAMY? How is it compared to the other agencies?
Thanks in advance.
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IS dl's are averaging over $13 per download while GI sales averaged $43 per download for me in Jan.
Grief, I don't have half that rpd. Even though I'm only on 30%, it still wouldn't be anything like that if I were on 40%.
Of course, I don't have any agencies and almost no Vettas, and that would make a big difference.
However, that would indeed be very difficult to give up - if the dls kept pace.
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I am also surprised by those numbers. I was on 35% and got around 7 dollars on average. Only for vetta files was I seeing an average of maybe 12 - 16 dollars. And my average for vetta was higher than my average for gettyimages. They only pay 20% and have so many 1 dollar downloads that the average is brought down significantly. I have been a Getty house contributor since 2008.
For most of the people I know the average for Vetta or agency files was always higher than on getty, whch is why so many good artists stopped supplying getty directly and only upload via istock/vetta, agency or E+.
Just look at the size of the portfolios of the istock brass on getty and istock and you will usually see they hardly upload directly to getty.
But good for you if these are your numbers. You should obviuosly focus all your energy on getty itself.
But this is the first time ever, I hear numbers like this.
Are you perhaps doing a lot of high end video?
ETA: just saw you said "in January". Ok, then you probably had a good month with a few higher downloads and not so many 1 dollar downloads. But if you look at your average over the 12 months and especially the trend over the last two years, is your average going up or down?
If the average royalty on Getty was 43 dollars everybody would be fighting to get in there! And you would never hear the macro shooters whine and complain on all the stock forums of the internet.
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ETA: just saw you said "in January". Ok, then you probably had a good month with a few higher downloads and not so many 1 dollar downloads. But if you look at your average over the 12 months and especially the trend over the last two years, is your average going up or down?
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For my part, I can't match prostock's figures but my average RPD has indeed gone up over the years - figures for iStock royalties only:
2011: $4.11
2012: $6.59
2013: $9.05 (so far)
And yes, the total DLs has gone down, but I'm still ahead overall - though not by a lot.
I'd concur with the comments on GI sales; the amounts are highly variable. I usually get a couple of high ones and a number of low ones, so the average isn't very meaningful - my average RPD for GI in January would be about $16, but I can see that if I had a lucky month with few low ones it could easily be a lot more. Not enough data yet for any meaningful conclusion.
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"You have no right to expect or demand $13 per sale in microstock. That's not what it's about or ever was" (Gostwick)
I'm certainly not going to sell files for cents while I can sell for dollars. That's about shooting, selling and having benefits.
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I've never looked at those figures before and I'm not sure they have any real value since they don't represent the steep decline in downloads, but in January, mine were:
IS $12.50
GI $32
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I'm not interested in resurrecting any drama around here. I thought we'd all grown up by now.
I appreciate the majority of the well wishes and as those of you know who I chat with via messages etc., at the end of the day our interests are the same. I'm not looking for handouts or wooyays. it will be tough for a while and I know it.
Stacey, good luck to you as an independent. I think there may ultimately be many more of us exclusives to follow if things continue as they are at iS.
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I'm not interested in resurrecting any drama around here. I thought we'd all grown up by now.
I appreciate the majority of the well wishes and as those of you know who I chat with via messages etc., at the end of the day our interests are the same. I'm not looking for handouts or wooyays. it will be tough for a while and I know it.
Stacey, good luck to you as an independent. I think there may ultimately be many more of us exclusives to follow if things continue as they are at iS.
Thank you :-)
Ref: Alamy: I like Alamy. I've been uploading RM and editorial there for a while. I know they are small comparatively, but so far great contributor relations. I plan on putting a lot more up now that I can. The only downside is their upload system; so clunky and time consuming.
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She even went a couple of rounds with lisafx but looks like they are on the same team now. :D
I've always liked Stacey personally, and respected her talent and work ethic. We've disagreed on some issues over the years, but I think we managed to stay on friendly terms even when we've disagreed.
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(...) I want to hear the experiences from members that have quitted the iStock exclusivity and started to work with other agencies. I want to hear your experiences, sites you've submitted, if you're making much more money than you're doing as exclusive at iStock, size of portfolios, best sellers sites, how long did you take to reach the same income you were doing as exclusive at iStock, are you making more, and so on.
As usual with my posts, going back to the subject and main question.
On my blog http://targoszstock.blogspot.com/ (http://targoszstock.blogspot.com/) i post exactly what you were looking for. If you have any other questions feel free to send me a targoszstock gmail : )
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well, I had my first sales on SS today.
Fotolia and Dreamstime, do they both require 6 month commitment?
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^ thank you...
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this may be a moot question, but has anybody done better financially by dropping exclusivity? i have not seen an overwhelming yes.
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this may be a moot question, but has anybody done better financially by dropping exclusivity? i have not seen an overwhelming yes.
This may not be so obvious when you look at my sales statistics, however if you take average income over several months, and portfolio size in to account, I am doing definitely better.
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Yes, these are video stats only.
You say stagnant, I say stable - on a level that IS came close three times only.
I believe my last months of IS exclusivity were a rollercoaster as it was throughout all the years. By accident it only seems to be a trend. I bet if I stayed exclusive i would have a month with quarter the income very soon, as it has happened in the past.
Other than that, these IS statistics have some getty sales within. I will redo the chart someday to separate them from the dark gray bar. My portfolio is still available on getty, just no more sales.
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well, I had my first sales on SS today.
Fotolia and Dreamstime, do they both require 6 month commitment?
Congrats on your first sale at SS, Stacey!
I've seen negative news here about Fotolia. I can't recall the specifics (I hope someone else can chime in with a few highlights), but I figure that since I left IS exclusivity partly due to trends that were anti-contributor, I would just be making a deal with the devil I don't know if I linked up with Fotolia. A year or two back I was excited about them but am under the impression now that they've started down IS's path. If I am mistaken, I'll take it back.
I had enough frustration with DT back before becoming exclusive that I won't work with them again.
For me going forward, it's co-ops and agencies that pay 50% commissions or better. I will contribute to SS also, because they're a major player with good sales that's been transparent with contributors. I still have a soft spot for Jon from the time(s) they gave contributors a raise back in the day. Imagine that! ;)
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well, I had my first sales on SS today.
Fotolia and Dreamstime, do they both require 6 month commitment?
Congrats on your first sale at SS, Stacey!
I've seen negative news here about Fotolia. I can't recall the specifics (I hope someone else can chime in with a few highlights), but I figure that since I left IS exclusivity partly due to trends that were anti-contributor, I would just be making a deal with the devil I don't know if I linked up with Fotolia. A year or two back I was excited about them but am under the impression now that they've started down IS's path. If I am mistaken, I'll take it back.
I had enough frustration with DT back before becoming exclusive that I won't work with them again.
For me going forward, it's co-ops and agencies that pay 50% commissions or better. I will contribute to SS also, because they're a major player with good sales that's been transparent with contributors. I still have a soft spot for Jon from the time(s) they gave contributors a raise back in the day. Imagine that! ;)
i am also interested to hear about Fotolia, i have joined but i can also unjoin
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i am also interested to hear about Fotolia, i have joined but i can also unjoin
I started deleting images from Fotolia at the same time as iStock dropped royalties, and for the same reasons. Fotolia has reduced royalties three times, and increased the thresholds to reach higher levels at the same time. One time when they cut my rate they offered to reinstate it; all I had to do was give them a couple of dozen of my best sellers to give away. Needless to say, I didn't accept. But the regular moving of goalposts was enough to make me walk away. There's also the currency exchange games they play, where suppliers who are paid in Euros get more money than those of us paid in dollars. Suffice it to say that I don't trust them. And given how far my sales there have fallen (they're down to 1.4% of my total over this past year), it's no sacrifice to stop uploading there and to continue deleting what's left.
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Lucato, Regarding Alamy, the sales vary very much month by month but it's definitely worth uploading there. I'm surprised you haven't heard of them. You can also upload your RF images there (same images as on the micros). I have a small port (approx 300 images) but managed to sell 1 image for 1300 last year (I got 40%). They made more for me last year than any micro but that was just a lucky year I think.
Good luck to you.
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few more words to the discussion, and a neat graph http://targoszstock.blogspot.com/2013/11/how-does-dropping-istock-exclusivity.html (http://targoszstock.blogspot.com/2013/11/how-does-dropping-istock-exclusivity.html)