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Author Topic: FACTOID Copyright registrations - WARNING...this is a MIZ posted thread  (Read 16756 times)

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« on: July 09, 2008, 15:37 »
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This pertains to United States Federal Laws (Not world wide)

Scenario: You have an image that some one copied from your website
1. You can NOT sue some one for copyright infringement in a small claims court. Copyrights pertain to federal law and regulations.
2. The fact that you took a picture, displayed it on your website, stated it was copyrighted by you, does not mean you will win in court.
3. In order to win a copyright claim, your image MUST have a copyright registration.
4. You have 90 days within the alleged infringement to register your image, regardless of of the date the image was taken.
5. If you sue and have had it registered within 90 days, or was already registered you may be awarded discretionary damages and attorney's fees.
6. If you register AFTER 90 days of the infringement, you may still be entitled to reasonable value of the image.

One note to ponder: If you were sick would you ask another photographer for advice, or would you ask a doctor?
So if you have a copyright issue problem my recommendation to to seek legal advice, not that of another photographer.

Cranky MIZ
The voice of reason


« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2008, 15:47 »
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This pertains to United States Federal Laws (Not world wide)



One note to ponder: If you were sick would you ask another photographer for advice, or would you ask a doctor?


/quote]


funny.

« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2008, 15:50 »
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It was NOT advice....it was my recommendation.

Still find it funny?

Cranky MIZ
The voice of reason

« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2008, 16:03 »
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most of the things you write MIZ are very funny.


RT


« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2008, 17:28 »
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One note to ponder: If you were sick would you ask another photographer for advice, or would you ask a doctor?
So if you have a copyright issue problem my recommendation to to seek legal advice, not that of another photographer.

I know of both Doctors and Lawyers that are photographers, and in the case of photo copyright a lawyer that is also a photographer would probably be your best bet as they would have a better understanding of the subject.


« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2008, 17:47 »
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indeed, a person ambidextrously versed in both arts (one revealing and one concealing) will be your best bet, MIZ.

« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2008, 19:42 »
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MIZ it looks like you are quoting a well known lawyer, Ed Greenberg, that recently had a segment on PhotohopUserTV. 

This is very good advice.  Within the next two weeks there will be a presentation on registering your work on PhotoshopUserTV.  Scott Kelby may post the seqment on his blog (www.scottkelby.com) as well.

Scott

« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2008, 20:54 »
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Thanks Scott

Cranky MIZ
The voice of reason

« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2008, 21:42 »
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congrats, MIZ!

 

« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2008, 21:45 »
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I win something?

Cranky MIZ
The voice of reason

« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2008, 22:37 »
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you become part of the microstock universe, and the universe became part of you. in that generous exchange someone commended you, as expected.  ;D



RacePhoto

« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2008, 01:30 »
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Quote
2. The fact that you took a picture, displayed it on your website, stated it was copyrighted by you, does not mean you will win in court.

3. In order to win a copyright claim, your image MUST have a copyright registration.

4. You have 90 days within the alleged infringement to register your image, regardless of of the date the image was taken.



2. There is never a guarantee that you will win in court, so your premise is flawed. The fact is, you don't have to state that a photo is copyrighted to protect it.

As of January 1, 1978, under U.S. copyright law, a work is automatically protected by copyright when it is created.

http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html

Read about it at the above site.

Copyright protection subsists from the time the work is created in fixed form. The copyright in the work of authorship immediately becomes the property of the author who created the work. Only the author or those deriving their rights through the author can rightfully claim copyright.

3. Is NOT completely true.

Registration proves for more protection and legal rights for the owner.

In general, copyright registration is a legal formality intended to make a public record of the basic facts of a particular copyright. However, registration is not a condition of copyright protection. Even though registration is not a requirement for protection, the copyright law provides several inducements or advantages to encourage copyright owners to make registration. Among these advantages are the following:

    * Registration establishes a public record of the copyright claim.

    * Before an infringement suit may be filed in court, registration is necessary for works of U.S. origin.

    * If made before or within 5 years of publication, registration will establish prima facie evidence in court of the validity of the copyright and of the facts stated in the certificate.

    * If registration is made within 3 months after publication of the work or prior to an infringement of the work, statutory damages and attorney's fees will be available to the copyright owner in court actions. Otherwise, only an award of actual damages and profits is available to the copyright owner.


Example: You can register a work a year later, if it's before the infringement occurs, and be able to make full recovery in court actions. It's not 90 days as you suggest.

4. Is not true.

50% accurate, you win nothing...

I agree. FUNNY!  ;D

« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2008, 03:48 »
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Look Racephoto,
I'm only paraphrasing what I heard am intellectual property lawyer say during an interview,

If you think you know mopre than him fine. I am not a lawyer so either one of you could be right.

Cranky MIZ
The voice of reason

RT


« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2008, 04:39 »
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MIZ,

This is a fine example then of why you should never quote anybody else, unless you know for 100% certain that it's true.

The majority of my career was involved in law, and what I can tell you is that no matter how many lawyers tell you how many different things regarding any type of property matter it all comes down to one thing,
you can either prove you own something or you can't, if you can you'll win if you can't it can go either way depending on circumstances, and the info about registering your copyright may help matters proceed a bit quicker but it can't replace fundemental law, irrespective of what country you're in.

What I will suggest to anyone is always shoot in RAW and always always always keep the original file.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2008, 04:40 by RT »

Microbius

« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2008, 05:44 »
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As far as I know registering copyright ONLY proves you had possession of that image on a certain date.

I could download an image from IStock and register copyright on it now.

Would I win in court? No because the owner can easily prove he had possession of the image before I registered the copyright (because of the upload date etc.)
If someone can prove they had the image previously to the person who posted it on IStock, the uploader would have to prove they had possession of it before that.

As most of our work is uploaded to multiple sites as soon as it's created we can pretty much prove we are the creators and thus the copyright holders (provided we have not contractually transfered the copyright) simply by virtue of being able to demonstrate when we first uploaded the image.

« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2008, 07:44 »
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Another uninformed trolling post by MIZ.

Microbius

« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2008, 10:16 »
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I don't know what you have against Miz. If you don't like what he has to say ignore it, or state your views, or whatever. I don't know why you have to personally attack him.

I've always found him to be honest, straight forward, and the first to point out his own shortcomings, unlike some.

The other day, without a hint of irony, another member who has been an artist all his life attacked the Miz-sters level of social responsibility pointing out that he (the other member) is only here to help others implying that Miz isn't interested in helping others.

Leaving aside that this was from someone who when questioned about techniques will often PM, while Miz shares his knowledge freely via tutorials on his site -- Miz is also a retired prison guard. You know, one of the guys who spent his days locked up with criminals who wanted to kill him so we didn't have to deal with them in the outside world?



« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2008, 11:13 »
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The information, which was a high level description of the law in the US, was accurate.  Yes, there are specifics and more detail to each and every one of the details that he quoted.  Yes, each and everything he said can be twisted in many different ways as that is the way with the legal system. 

MIZ - it was a great idea to post your original post in this thread, next time say name the person you are quoting. . . 

By the way if you do not register your copyright, and you are infringed, you will not get an award.  The first step when on is infringed, is to register your image or better have your attorney register it for you.  If you do not register your image your case will not stand in court.  (note:  I am not a lawyer, but I had an infringement case several years ago, my attorney registered the copyright, as is the standard procedure in infringement cases, and we won albeit out of court once I showed related frames on either side of the infringed image to prove it was my image and not some one else's image). 

If you do not register, you can not go to court and have a chance to win.  As RT eluded to, there are certainities that you will win, but if you do not register as soon as possible after (or before infringement) you will do be able to "play" in court.

Keep in mind that we have the copyright once we click the shutter, but for infringement, the procedure is to register it with the copyright office.  This is the case in the US, but not necessarily the case outside the US. 

As usual when you need legal advice concerning copyright, go to an attorney familar with the respective laws in your jurisdiction, do not go to a photoforum.

Here's links to the Ed Greenberg interview:

Part 1:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4czzNOPbJWk" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4czzNOPbJWk</a>


Part 2:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGZ_pJQ-_EU" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGZ_pJQ-_EU</a>





Scott
« Last Edit: July 10, 2008, 11:18 by NikonScott »

« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2008, 14:08 »
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MIZ - it was a great idea to post your original post in this thread, next time say name the person you are quoting. . . 


I was not quoting him. I was stating the facts of the law as I had understood them to be, AFTER I viewed his interview.
After all he himself did not make the laws he was explaining them as facts. Thats just what I attempted to do.

Thanks for your support though. Seems like everyone wants to contradict ANYTHING I say.

Cranky MIZ
The voice of reason

« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2008, 16:14 »
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Seems like everyone wants to contradict ANYTHING I say.


No, this is absolutely NOT true.
 ;D  ;D  ;D

Claude

« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2008, 17:37 »
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Seems like everyone wants to contradict ANYTHING I say.
No, this is absolutely NOT true.
Claude

See what I mean!

Cranky MIZ
The voice of reason

« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2008, 21:22 »
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I don't know what you have against Miz. If you don't like what he has to say ignore it, or state your views, or whatever. I don't know why you have to personally attack him.

Miz is also a retired prison guard. You know, one of the guys who spent his days locked up with criminals who wanted to kill him so we didn't have to deal with them in the outside world?
There was no personal attack in my post, I was stating fact. It was a trolling post. Everyday Miz posts at least one thread which should be called Miz's random thought of the day. Yesterday he posted on this topic, which has been part of my job for years and years. I classified it as a trolling post and uninformed because that is what it was. You can't boil down US copyright law to 6 statements (especially ones poorly paraphrased from something you heard in an interview). It is like me (someone who knows very little about photoshop) posting a tutorial on photoshop. I mean, really, what was the point of the post? I have no problem with MIZ, I have a problem with the constant deluge of MIZ threads on mostly irrelevant topics, or ones like this that don't really add to the communal knowledge.

I'm also not sure how Miz being a prison guard is relevant.

Microbius

« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2008, 02:52 »
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I take your point, but why bother posting on every thread he starts saying he's a troll? Why not either ignore it or post a specific rebuke?

The prison guard bit wasn't directed at you in particular, but at another forum member (I think Miz knows who I mean), who recently tried to take the moral high ground over Miz with their usual "I am a saintly guru while everyone else is a selfish b*stard routine". I think Miz's previous career is relevant in that context.

« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2008, 03:55 »
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Miz, take a look at this post.
http://submit.shutterstock.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=41775
You've been called a comic genius on the SS forums. :)

tan510jomast

« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2008, 10:57 »
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Racephoto, this is true for Canada as well. We don't have to register our creative works, but even a simple protection as mailing a cd, or dvd, of the works to ourselves by registered post, is enough ammunition , IN CASE OF COPYRIGHT THEFT.

i am glad too lately that Canada has become even more strict about copyright infringement. lots of civil libertarians ..(led by a university professor, go figure !  ::)  .. are angry, but artists are glad about this.

also, the advice to keep your RAW files is good advice.
i also keep my jpg (i only started shooting RAW when i joined stock sites)
the one i cloned off logos and people,etc...
this is ample proof of my original , i suppose.

OH, hey MIZ, I DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOU SAY...
we don't always disagree with you.
your light hearted cynicism is what makes this forum interesting,
and you are not afraid to call a spade a spade .

so good for you!  Not a big fan of MIZ, but just this once, i cheer for you !  ;D
« Last Edit: July 11, 2008, 11:00 by tan510jomast »


 

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