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Poll

If there was a new non-exclusive RM agency, what do you think would be the fair royalty split Photographer/Agency in %

50/50
31 (75.6%)
60/40
7 (17.1%)
65/35
0 (0%)
70/30
1 (2.4%)
75/25
2 (4.9%)

Total Members Voted: 41

Voting closed: April 11, 2019, 11:28

Author Topic: Fair Royalty Split  (Read 1134 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

« on: April 04, 2019, 11:28 »
0
Please consider carefully, both, the agency and the photographer have expenses and need money to operate. What do you consider to be the fair royalty that would attract you to a new non-exclusive Rights Managed agency, not just the royalty which pays you the most money.

Thanks!
Alex


« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2019, 11:30 »
+2
Why are you asking this?

« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2019, 11:37 »
+1
Because I am starting one, and trying to be as fair to other photographers as i can, since I am a photographer myself. But want to make sure we are on the same page with others.

Thanks!

Brasilnut

  • Author Brutally Honest Guide to Microstock & Blog

« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2019, 11:43 »
+2
Why non-exclusive RM?

« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2019, 11:53 »
+6
This metric on its own would not really feature in my decision. What is important to me is a convincing plan to find buyers and the potential return in $$$.  50% of one sale at $1. Isn't as good as 25% of $10. Attracting contributors if you design a pain free uploading process isn't a problem. Attracting buyers in a massively competitive industry is.

« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2019, 11:55 »
+7
105% / -5%

Don't worry.  You'll make it up in volume.

« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2019, 11:58 »
0
I'm not sure what value another non exclusive site adds.

« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2019, 12:00 »
+1
I believe in the value of images and that the usage of them should be only by those who sees value in them as well. Controlled and documented, removed from the circulation when license expires and having an optional exclusivity as RM license offers.

RF images spread like fire all over the internet and loose their value quickly. Who want's repetitive images on their websites and in publications? Only those who sees no value in them, just a space filler. Every agency wants RF now, yes I plan to offer it too, but that's not the main emphasis. I don't believe in sustainability of RF as a business model for photographers. I think it's good only for agencies.

Why non-exclusive? I like the exclusive model, but I would personally not give my images exclusively to a new agency without a strong sales record and other stuff to brag about. Maybe in the future, though.

« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2019, 12:02 »
0
Is this you?  http://alexmaxim.ca/

« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2019, 12:02 »
0
It will be a tightly edited collection. We are not going to compete for numbers of images, only for the value of the content. We plan to do the keywording etc. ourselves. So low-volume submissions, but only unique, interesting works.

« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2019, 12:04 »
0
Is this you?  http://alexmaxim.ca/


Yes, my old portfolio website. Let's keep the poll impersonal. I don't want any bias.

« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2019, 12:07 »
0
Is this you?  http://alexmaxim.ca/


Yes, my old portfolio website. Let's keep the poll impersonal. I don't want any bias.

Knowing who you are makes it seem like you are more serious.  My first thought was this is a strange question to be asking for someone who has a plan.  It seems very arbitrary.  I think the Stocksy model is a good one.

« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2019, 12:18 »
0
Is this you?  http://alexmaxim.ca/


Yes, my old portfolio website. Let's keep the poll impersonal. I don't want any bias.

Knowing who you are makes it seem like you are more serious.  My first thought was this is a strange question to be asking for someone who has a plan.  It seems very arbitrary.  I think the Stocksy model is a good one.


Yes, I think they have a good approach, being a co-op and highly selective. I don't agree with the RF license model that much. And I usually stay away from exclusive deals. They are very appealing to agencies, that's true, to have unique content, who wouldn't want to. But they take the distribution rights away from photographers. Maybe it's fine with most photographers, though. I don't know.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2019, 12:21 by AlexMaxim »

« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2019, 12:23 »
+1
Probably the only thing that would make me contribute to a new agency is an up front payment for images to be paid from in future earnings....then the agency would actually need to deliver on its promises.

« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2019, 12:30 »
0
Probably the only thing that would make me contribute to a new agency is an up front payment for images to be paid from in future earnings....then the agency would actually need to deliver on its promises.

Lol. And how much would you want to be paid upfront? For 1 license, for 10, for 100? The agencies have serious expenses to set everything up. They are betting even more than photographers. Can you image the accumulated debt of an agency with this business model before they even get to the market?

« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2019, 12:37 »
+1
Is this you?  http://alexmaxim.ca/


Yes, my old portfolio website. Let's keep the poll impersonal. I don't want any bias.

Knowing who you are makes it seem like you are more serious.  My first thought was this is a strange question to be asking for someone who has a plan.  It seems very arbitrary.  I think the Stocksy model is a good one.


Yes, I think they have a good approach, being a co-op and highly selective. I don't agree with the RF license model that much. And I usually stay away from exclusive deals. They are very appealing to agencies, that's true, to have unique content, who wouldn't want to. But they take the distribution rights away from photographers. Maybe it's fine with most photographers, though. I don't know.


You want to be another RM distributor with the contributor taking a cut from a cut, don't you think that there are enough of them around.  If that's the case 80/20.

swisschocolate

  • A girl from the Alps
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2019, 12:41 »
+2
Controlled and documented, removed from the circulation when license expires and having an optional exclusivity as RM license offers.

How it can be "controlled and documented" if it's non-exclusive and can be licensed by other RM agencies?

Can you image the accumulated debt of an agency with this business model before they even get to the market?

It seems to be a classic business model. They buy wholesale and then try to sell with no garantees that it will ever work. Not suggesting you to start like this :) Just a thought that this is how business usually works.

As I remember Depositphotos was paying upfront to contributors, so it's not new in microstock either.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2019, 12:47 by swisschocolate »


« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2019, 12:44 »
0
Quote
Because I am starting one, and trying to be as fair to other photographers as i can, since I am a photographer myself.

Back in 2004 I have started a whatever (actually a repairshop).
I knew as a customer that prices were too high.
I knew as a technician that components were cheap.
After all, I was raised in a protected, honest environment.
Everyone I serviced was happy.
They brought more people.
Also I felt well.
Beloved.
Respected.

And then annual expenses report and taxes arrived.

End of story.
(Actually this story ended 14 years later will losses...)

« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2019, 12:57 »
+1
Is this you?  http://alexmaxim.ca/


Yes, my old portfolio website. Let's keep the poll impersonal. I don't want any bias.

Knowing who you are makes it seem like you are more serious.  My first thought was this is a strange question to be asking for someone who has a plan.  It seems very arbitrary.  I think the Stocksy model is a good one.


Yes, I think they have a good approach, being a co-op and highly selective. I don't agree with the RF license model that much. And I usually stay away from exclusive deals. They are very appealing to agencies, that's true, to have unique content, who wouldn't want to. But they take the distribution rights away from photographers. Maybe it's fine with most photographers, though. I don't know.


You want to be another RM distributor with the contributor taking a cut from a cut, don't you think that there are enough of them around.  If that's the case 80/20.


Not at all, we don't plan to have any sub-distributors. Only a single royalty split and direct sales.

It might sound far-fetched, but we want to change the industry for the better and create a level playing field for the artists and image buyers. We have no ambition to become rich from this endeavor. I think 15-40% royalties, selling RM images with RF usage rights or selling images for a few dollars or even pennies, should become a thing of the past and be shown in museums, like dinosaurs.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2019, 17:07 by AlexMaxim »

« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2019, 13:02 »
+2
Controlled and documented, removed from the circulation when license expires and having an optional exclusivity as RM license offers.

How it can be "controlled and documented" if it's non-exclusive and can be licensed by other RM agencies?

Can you image the accumulated debt of an agency with this business model before they even get to the market?

It seems to be a classic business model. They buy wholesale and then try to sell with no garantees that it will ever work. Not suggesting you to start like this :) Just a thought that this is how business usually works.

As I remember Depositphotos was paying upfront to contributors, so it's not new in microstock either.

All agencies are supposed to give a detailed report of issued RM licenses to their contributors. Some do it upon inquiry if you have an exclusive license request or need to know an image license history. If there are RM agencies that don't report you the issued license terms, I wouldn't stay with them.

What's important is that the contributor knows when the license started, when it ends and where it's distributed.

« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2019, 13:24 »
+1
Probably the only thing that would make me contribute to a new agency is an up front payment for images to be paid from in future earnings....then the agency would actually need to deliver on its promises.

Lol. And how much would you want to be paid upfront? For 1 license, for 10, for 100? The agencies have serious expenses to set everything up. They are betting even more than photographers. Can you image the accumulated debt of an agency with this business model before they even get to the market?
I can understand that but given how many agencies there are why would I risk spending time uploading? Most businesses invest in their inventory before selling anything  why is stock different?

Stefan Dahl

  • Formerly known as Uber Images

« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2019, 13:32 »
+3
Deleted because I don't want to participate in the discussion anyway :)
« Last Edit: April 04, 2019, 13:36 by Stefan Dahl »

« Reply #22 on: April 04, 2019, 13:37 »
0
Probably the only thing that would make me contribute to a new agency is an up front payment for images to be paid from in future earnings....then the agency would actually need to deliver on its promises.

Lol. And how much would you want to be paid upfront? For 1 license, for 10, for 100? The agencies have serious expenses to set everything up. They are betting even more than photographers. Can you image the accumulated debt of an agency with this business model before they even get to the market?
I can understand that but given how many agencies there are why would I risk spending time uploading? Most businesses invest in their inventory before selling anything  why is stock different?

We plan to do all the image placement on our end. The contributors will just send hi-res images, we'll select the images we want, keyword and attribute them. So there is no time waste for photographers.

« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2019, 14:28 »
+1
So far it confirms that our original choice of 60/40 is a good one.

If you are interested in contributing, please message me a link to your portfolio. Once we are ready to invite you, and you have the kind of images we are interested in, I'll give you a shout!

Just a hint, we are more interested in artistic, dramatic, moody, atmospheric imagery in different genres. Creative, inspiring, conceptual, alternative lifestyle, natural, candid, fantasy, sensual, couples, unique travel imagery, holistically healthy, mindful, enlightening or dark and magical etc. Conventional lifestyle and corporate imagery is of little interest to us. Thought provoking is the keyword. I should mention that images we select cannot be with microstock. Sorry for that but that's our decision.

Thank you for participating in the poll!
Alex
« Last Edit: April 04, 2019, 14:34 by AlexMaxim »

« Reply #24 on: April 04, 2019, 14:39 »
+2
So far it confirms that our original choice of 60/40 is a good one.

If you are interested in contributing, please message me a link to your portfolio. Once we are ready to invite you, and you have the kind of images we are interested in, I'll give you a shout!

Just a hint, we are more interested in artistic, dramatic, moody, atmospheric imagery in different genres. Creative, inspiring, conceptual, alternative lifestyle, natural, candid, fantasy, sensual, couples, unique travel imagery, holistically healthy, mindful, enlightening or dark and magical etc. Conventional lifestyle and corporate imagery is of little interest to us. Thought provoking is the keyword. I should mention that images we select cannot be with microstock. Sorry for that but that's our decision.

Thank you for participating in the poll!
Alex
You should probably say who you are, what your terms are, how about anything about the agency?  I'm not sure having a poll up for 3 hours here is the best way to decide how to run an agency and what you pay should be based on a little more than that don't you think?  It's kind of a big important business decision.
I'll also add that being secretive is not a good way to start out.  If you are serious you need to prove that.

« Reply #25 on: April 04, 2019, 15:19 »
0
So far it confirms that our original choice of 60/40 is a good one.

If you are interested in contributing, please message me a link to your portfolio. Once we are ready to invite you, and you have the kind of images we are interested in, I'll give you a shout!

Just a hint, we are more interested in artistic, dramatic, moody, atmospheric imagery in different genres. Creative, inspiring, conceptual, alternative lifestyle, natural, candid, fantasy, sensual, couples, unique travel imagery, holistically healthy, mindful, enlightening or dark and magical etc. Conventional lifestyle and corporate imagery is of little interest to us. Thought provoking is the keyword. I should mention that images we select cannot be with microstock. Sorry for that but that's our decision.

Thank you for participating in the poll!
Alex
You should probably say who you are, what your terms are, how about anything about the agency?  I'm not sure having a poll up for 3 hours here is the best way to decide how to run an agency and what you pay should be based on a little more than that don't you think?  It's kind of a big important business decision.
I'll also add that being secretive is not a good way to start out.  If you are serious you need to prove that.

That's a fair question. We are not ready to accept a big number of contributors at this point since we are still in development mode, so by invitation only. PM me if you are serious.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2019, 22:25 by AlexMaxim »

« Reply #26 on: April 04, 2019, 15:27 »
+1
RM and non-exclusive images? It`s not possible.
There could be 1 second between a sold image on agency A and same on agency B.
I couldn`t delete this image at agency B within 1 second.
Makes no sense.


« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2019, 15:36 »
+1
RM and non-exclusive images? It`s not possible.
There could be 1 second between a sold image on agency A and same on agency B.
I couldn`t delete this image at agency B within 1 second.
Makes no sense.

You don't need to delete it. You only place a restriction on an image with all agencies if it's sold exclusively somewhere, so it cannot be relicensed for a similar usage for the duration of an exclusive license. Most RM agencies offer that functionality directly or on request.

In most cases, before an exclusive license is sold, the customer makes an inquiry, whether an image has be licensed for this usage before. You should have that info available or can request from agencies. But exclusive licenses don't come every second. Once or a few times a year is more like it. They are expensive.

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #28 on: April 04, 2019, 17:24 »
+1
Deleted because I don't want to participate in the discussion anyway :)

Actually after finding the early messages interesting, I thought, why am I reading this?  :)

« Reply #29 on: April 04, 2019, 20:25 »
0
So far it confirms that our original choice of 60/40 is a good one.

If you are interested in contributing, please message me a link to your portfolio. Once we are ready to invite you, and you have the kind of images we are interested in, I'll give you a shout!

Just a hint, we are more interested in artistic, dramatic, moody, atmospheric imagery in different genres. Creative, inspiring, conceptual, alternative lifestyle, natural, candid, fantasy, sensual, couples, unique travel imagery, holistically healthy, mindful, enlightening or dark and magical etc. Conventional lifestyle and corporate imagery is of little interest to us. Thought provoking is the keyword. I should mention that images we select cannot be with microstock. Sorry for that but that's our decision.

Thank you for participating in the poll!
Alex
You should probably say who you are, what your terms are, how about anything about the agency?  I'm not sure having a poll up for 3 hours here is the best way to decide how to run an agency and what you pay should be based on a little more than that don't you think?  It's kind of a big important business decision.
I'll also add that being secretive is not a good way to start out.  If you are serious you need to prove that.


 Not to mention marketing and advertising budget and plan. I am amazed at the people who will turn their images over to anybody who shows up and asks for them. The OP just registered on this site today! DANGER! RED FLAGS!
« Last Edit: April 04, 2019, 20:27 by cathyslife »

« Reply #30 on: April 04, 2019, 21:25 »
+2
So far it confirms that our original choice of 60/40 is a good one.

If you are interested in contributing, please message me a link to your portfolio. Once we are ready to invite you, and you have the kind of images we are interested in, I'll give you a shout!

Just a hint, we are more interested in artistic, dramatic, moody, atmospheric imagery in different genres. Creative, inspiring, conceptual, alternative lifestyle, natural, candid, fantasy, sensual, couples, unique travel imagery, holistically healthy, mindful, enlightening or dark and magical etc. Conventional lifestyle and corporate imagery is of little interest to us. Thought provoking is the keyword. I should mention that images we select cannot be with microstock. Sorry for that but that's our decision.

Thank you for participating in the poll!
Alex
You should probably say who you are, what your terms are, how about anything about the agency?  I'm not sure having a poll up for 3 hours here is the best way to decide how to run an agency and what you pay should be based on a little more than that don't you think?  It's kind of a big important business decision.
I'll also add that being secretive is not a good way to start out.  If you are serious you need to prove that.


 Not to mention marketing and advertising budget and plan. I am amazed at the people who will turn their images over to anybody who shows up and asks for them. The OP just registered on this site today! DANGER! RED FLAGS!

I am sorry that the first thing that comes to your mind is mistrust. I respect copyright and artists as I am one of them myself. Besides, copyright violations are very easy to pursue.

« Reply #31 on: April 05, 2019, 05:42 »
+3
Quote
I am sorry that the first thing that comes to your mind is mistrust.

Alex, I am a newbie here, but I have read a lot of archived threads and posts on various agencies.

There is a reason that people around here sound suspicious to everything and everyone

((edit) actually, taking the time to read the archive instead of having a random sampling
of active users, will answer  to you what contributors want in money terms and in total...).

 :)
« Last Edit: April 05, 2019, 05:45 by georgep7 »

ShadySue

« Reply #32 on: April 05, 2019, 07:51 »
+2
Quote
Besides, copyright violations are very easy to pursue.
Indeed they are not, particularly if cross border involving very expensive international IP lawyers and legislations where you are not automatically awarded expenses, even if you win the case.

« Reply #33 on: April 09, 2019, 12:45 »
+1
Thank you everyone for contributing to this poll with your votes and opinions.

It was very helpful!
Alex


 

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