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Author Topic: Fake/prop money, how do I print it?  (Read 22718 times)

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wut

« on: January 26, 2012, 07:42 »
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It has to be fake since it's going to be destroyed, I'm looking for Euros and $. And I don't have a lot of time, it's going to be part of a shoot on Saturday. And know it's hard to come by and PS gives you a hard time, but there sure is a way to do it, top stockers have drawers full of fake money (and vaults full of real;)


« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2012, 07:49 »
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It has to be fake since it's going to be destroyed, I'm looking for Euros and $. And I don't have a lot of time, it's going to be part of a shoot on Saturday.
I don't want to sound harsh but what do you expect? Somebody is going to Fedex you (a competitor) some fiat money by Saturday on a priority rate?  ;)

RT


« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2012, 07:55 »
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Can't speak for the Euro or dollar but if YOU produce fake money in the UK without the authority of the Bank of England then you commit fraud, there's no offence in photographing fake or even real UK money (and before anybody jumps in with the usual 'oh but x agency says you can't photograph UK money and sell it as stock' - yes you can, I'm not going to argue with you, go and learn the law) but there is an offence if you produce it.

My advice is go and buy some fake money from a theatre/stage prop production company in the country you're in.

« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2012, 12:01 »
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Too bad you need it by Saturday, because I'd recommend finding it on eBay.  I purchased several bundles a few years ago, all of which are marked as props and are not exact replicas...the stuff RT is mentioning.

wut

« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2012, 12:15 »
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Yeah that's the thing, I don't have the time to buy it on the internet and I doubt there are any stores like that in my area (I'll still ask on FB though). I don't like the hassle of looking for a way and printing it. I'm not worried at all for being an offence, I'd print it and as I said destroy it during the shoot (who's ever going to know I "produced" it). Although I know what you mean and tnx for pointing it out, since you never know what some overly ambitious new employee at a copy store would do (he'd rat me out in a heartbeat)

RT


« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2012, 12:36 »
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I'm not worried at all for being an offence, I'd print it and as I said destroy it during the shoot (who's ever going to know I "produced" it).

As I said I don't know which country you're from, but if you did a photo destroying UK money you'd need to prove it was fake money that was legally produced with authority from the BoE, otherwise you commit an offence for destroying real bank notes. That's the reason that the BoE have the statement about producing bank notes (the one that confuses most people including agencies into thinking you can't photograph them) you need permission to produce fakes so that you can destroy them without committing an offence.

« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2012, 12:39 »
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Have you tried looking for a stock illustration that you could print yourself?  Just as long as it's not an exact replica, you should be fine.

ShadySue

« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2012, 12:44 »
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Have you tried looking for a stock illustration that you could print yourself?  Just as long as it's not an exact replica, you should be fine.

I'm pretty sure iStock, for example, doesn't allow elements of purchased stock to be used in submissions by different contributors.
(That said, the OP didn't actually say they would be using their image for stock)

wut

« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2012, 12:50 »
0
I'm not worried at all for being an offence, I'd print it and as I said destroy it during the shoot (who's ever going to know I "produced" it).

As I said I don't know which country you're from, but if you did a photo destroying UK money you'd need to prove it was fake money that was legally produced with authority from the BoE, otherwise you commit an offence for destroying real bank notes. That's the reason that the BoE have the statement about producing bank notes (the one that confuses most people including agencies into thinking you can't photograph them) you need permission to produce fakes so that you can destroy them without committing an offence.

I did say I needed US dollar and Euros. It may also be an offence to destroy one/both bills of those currencies though.

wut

« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2012, 12:51 »
0
Have you tried looking for a stock illustration that you could print yourself?  Just as long as it's not an exact replica, you should be fine.

I'm pretty sure iStock, for example, doesn't allow elements of purchased stock to be used in submissions by different contributors.
(That said, the OP didn't actually say they would be using their image for stock)

I do ;)

ShadySue

« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2012, 13:20 »
0
I'm not worried at all for being an offence, I'd print it and as I said destroy it during the shoot (who's ever going to know I "produced" it).

As I said I don't know which country you're from, but if you did a photo destroying UK money you'd need to prove it was fake money that was legally produced with authority from the BoE, otherwise you commit an offence for destroying real bank notes. That's the reason that the BoE have the statement about producing bank notes (the one that confuses most people including agencies into thinking you can't photograph them) you need permission to produce fakes so that you can destroy them without committing an offence.

I did say I needed US dollar and Euros. It may also be an offence to destroy one/both bills of those currencies though.
Worth checking. You can be thrown in prison in Kenya for destroying a banknote.
(or at least I read that in the Rough Guide before my first safari)

traveler1116

« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2012, 13:50 »
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I'm not worried at all for being an offence, I'd print it and as I said destroy it during the shoot (who's ever going to know I "produced" it).

As I said I don't know which country you're from, but if you did a photo destroying UK money you'd need to prove it was fake money that was legally produced with authority from the BoE, otherwise you commit an offence for destroying real bank notes. That's the reason that the BoE have the statement about producing bank notes (the one that confuses most people including agencies into thinking you can't photograph them) you need permission to produce fakes so that you can destroy them without committing an offence.

I did say I needed US dollar and Euros. It may also be an offence to destroy one/both bills of those currencies though.
Worth checking. You can be thrown in prison in Kenya for destroying a banknote.
(or at least I read that in the Rough Guide before my first safari)
I'm pretty sure if the authorities in Thailand saw that you were defacing the king's image by destroying money you would be in some trouble too, you may even end up in jail.

wut

« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2012, 14:01 »
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So you're ok as long as you don't destroy a royal face? :)

« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2012, 19:27 »
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I have a couple of multi function printers (print/scan/copy), and could not get anything printed through Photoshop/Mac OS X/the printer software. Nothing I did worked. Until i just used the copy function on the printer. Worked fine. If you do not need 1:1 size, you can enlarge the copy for better detail (I used 2x enlargement):

http://imgs.no/search.php?search=burning+money&match_type=all

ShadySue

« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2012, 19:29 »
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So you're ok as long as you don't destroy a royal face? :)
It's the Prez's face in Kenya which is the issue, so not royal.

wut

« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2012, 19:32 »
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So you're ok as long as you don't destroy a royal face? :)
It's the Prez's face in Kenya which is the issue, so not royal.

OK I thought it was just the same example as in UK and Thailand (and there seems to be no problems with US$ and EUR)

wut

« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2012, 19:34 »
0
I have a couple of multi function printers (print/scan/copy), and could not get anything printed through Photoshop/Mac OS X/the printer software. Nothing I did worked. Until i just used the copy function on the printer. Worked fine. If you do not need 1:1 size, you can enlarge the copy for better detail (I used 2x enlargement):

http://imgs.no/search.php?search=burning+money&match_type=all


If I get my hands on a color copier I'll do that. Tnx for the tip


ShadySue

« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2012, 19:42 »
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So you're ok as long as you don't destroy a royal face? :)
It's the Prez's face in Kenya which is the issue, so not royal.

OK I thought it was just the same example as in UK and Thailand (and there seems to be no problems with US$ and EUR)

It's the same issue, disrespect for a head of state rather than disrespect for the currency.

jbarber873

« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2012, 19:44 »
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   I was just researching this. Here's how to make US money. The guy has a lot of good ideas, and a link to an image file to use.
UK money I don't know about.
here's a link.
Briefcase of Prop Money : BFX : DIY

wut

« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2012, 19:48 »
0
So you're ok as long as you don't destroy a royal face? :)
It's the Prez's face in Kenya which is the issue, so not royal.

OK I thought it was just the same example as in UK and Thailand (and there seems to be no problems with US$ and EUR)

It's the same issue, disrespect for a head of state rather than disrespect for the currency.

I was just making a small joke, it was about the pattern ;)

wut

« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2012, 19:57 »
0
   I was just researching this. Here's how to make US money. The guy has a lot of good ideas, and a link to an image file to use.
UK money I don't know about.
here's a link.
Briefcase of Prop Money : BFX : DIY


That's pretty cool, tnx, but I'm not really big on the DIY stuff. I don't have the time to do it either. Might be useful also if I indend to do something like this in the future :)
The Godfather (Rmi GAILLARD)

ShadySue

« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2012, 20:04 »
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According to Wikipedia, you can't burn US dollars:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_burning#United_States

In the United States, burning banknotes is prohibited under 18 U.S.C. 333: Mutilation of national bank obligations, which includes "any other thing" that renders a note "unfit to be reissued".[15] In an amicus brief for Atwater v. City of Lago Vista, Solicitor General Seth Waxman writes that arresting an individual who removes the corner dollar values "may expose a counterfeiting operation".[16] It is unclear if the statute has ever been applied in response to the complete destruction of a bill. Certainly people have publicly burned small amounts of money for political protests that were picked up by the media Living Things at South by Southwest,[17] Larry Kudlow on The Call[18] without apparent consequence.

The question of legality has been compared to the much more politically charged issue of flag desecration. In 1989, in a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing on the Flag Protection Act, former US Attorney General William Barr testified that any regulation protecting something purely for its symbolic value would be struck down as unconstitutional. The Senate report recommending passage of the Act argued that Barr's theory would render 18 U.S.C. 333 unconstitutional as well.[19] In a dissent in Smith v. Goguen, Justice Rehnquist counted 18 U.S.C. 333 in a group of statutes in which the Government protects its interest in some private property which is "not a traditional property interest".[20] On the other hand, the Government's interest in protecting circulating currency might not be purely symbolic; it costs the Bureau of Engraving and Printing approximately 5 cents to replace a note.[15]


Seems not to apply to fake money, though:
Legal Tender,[21] a 1996 telerobotic art installment by Ken Goldberg, Eric Paulos, Judith Donath, and Mark Pauline, was an experiment to see if the law could instill a sense of physical risk in online interactions. After participants were advised that 18 U.S.C. 333 threatened them with up to six months in jail, they were given the option of remotely defacing small portions of a pair of "purportedly authentic" $100 bills over the web. A crime may be occurring but "only if the bills are real, the web site is authentic, and the experiment actually performed."[22] In fact, one bill was real and the other counterfeit.[23] Almost all of the participants reported that they believed the experiment and the bills to be faked.[24]

The destruction of money is also bound by the same laws that govern the destruction of other personal property. In particular, one cannot empower the executor of one's estate to burn one's money after one dies.[25]

wut

« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2012, 04:18 »
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But still, that doesn't seem to stop tons of togs burning it http://www.istockphoto.com/search/text/burning%20dollars/source/basic#136f0c86. Besides US laws don't apply to us, they could just force US based agencies to withdraw such images

ShadySue

« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2012, 06:28 »
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But still, that doesn't seem to stop tons of togs burning it http://www.istockphoto.com/search/text/burning%20dollars/source/basic#136f0c86. Besides US laws don't apply to us, they could just force US based agencies to withdraw such images

That'll be (assumed to be) fake money, which according to that Wikipedia article is OK to burn.

« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2012, 06:37 »
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I will hereby issue a warning.

WARNING!

It is illegal to produce money!
It is illegal to destroy money!
It is illegal to take part in both of the above.

Means what wut has on his mind is illegal.

AND it is illegal to help him.

I suggest to delete this thread.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2012, 06:41 by JPSDK »

wut

« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2012, 06:40 »
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But still, that doesn't seem to stop tons of togs burning it http://www.istockphoto.com/search/text/burning%20dollars/source/basic#136f0c86. Besides US laws don't apply to us, they could just force US based agencies to withdraw such images

That'll be (assumed to be) fake money, which according to that Wikipedia article is OK to burn.


We're talking about fake money from 1st post on ;)

ShadySue

« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2012, 06:51 »
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But still, that doesn't seem to stop tons of togs burning it http://www.istockphoto.com/search/text/burning%20dollars/source/basic#136f0c86. Besides US laws don't apply to us, they could just force US based agencies to withdraw such images

That'll be (assumed to be) fake money, which according to that Wikipedia article is OK to burn.


We're talking about fake money from 1st post on ;)


Yes, but it seems it would be illegal to make fake UK currency to destroy, but it seems that would not apply to fake US$.
Allegedly. E&OE.  IANAL, etc.


RT


« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2012, 06:56 »
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AND it is illegal to help him.

I suggest to delete this thread.

Read through the replies and you'll see people here are trying to help him so that he doesn't do anything illegal.

ShadySue

« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2012, 07:17 »
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You might find some useful info here from the European Central Bank regarding Euro banknotes:
http://www.ecb.int/pub/pdf/other/bnlegalen.pdf
(Only 103 pp. Start reading from p7, which section, on an extremely quick skim, might address the faking issue.)

Depending on how you intend to destroy the notes in your image, would it work if you make very generic fake money for your shoot?

« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2012, 07:19 »
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Things are not always what they seem to be.

Read the title of the post and consider the place it appears.

wut

« Reply #30 on: January 27, 2012, 12:19 »
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Things are not always what they seem to be.

Read the title of the post and consider the place it appears.

Is paranoia your middle name, you could be called paranoid John or something ;)

wut

« Reply #31 on: January 27, 2012, 12:23 »
0
You might find some useful info here from the European Central Bank regarding Euro banknotes:
http://www.ecb.int/pub/pdf/other/bnlegalen.pdf
(Only 103 pp. Start reading from p7, which section, on an extremely quick skim, might address the faking issue.)

Depending on how you intend to destroy the notes in your image, would it work if you make very generic fake money for your shoot?


Liz, I'm really thankful you're trying so hard to help me, but I don't have the time (nor the will to be honest) to go through all that. I just spoke to a microstocker from my city, they went to the copy store and they copied few sheets of dollars, they even asked if they want them cut into bills. Complete service. I'll just do that, it's the simplest way. I love the fact I live in a country where ppl don't overcomplicate things :)

« Reply #32 on: January 27, 2012, 12:43 »
0
Things are not always what they seem to be.

Read the title of the post and consider the place it appears.

Is paranoia your middle name, you could be called paranoid John or something ;)

Maybe so.
I Used to work with internet security and legal issues in big companies and  I used to be a private detective.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2012, 12:45 by JPSDK »

ShadySue

« Reply #33 on: January 27, 2012, 17:47 »
0
You might find some useful info here from the European Central Bank regarding Euro banknotes:
http://www.ecb.int/pub/pdf/other/bnlegalen.pdf
(Only 103 pp. Start reading from p7, which section, on an extremely quick skim, might address the faking issue.)

Depending on how you intend to destroy the notes in your image, would it work if you make very generic fake money for your shoot?


Liz, I'm really thankful you're trying so hard to help me, but I don't have the time (nor the will to be honest) to go through all that. I just spoke to a microstocker from my city, they went to the copy store and they copied few sheets of dollars, they even asked if they want them cut into bills. Complete service. I'll just do that, it's the simplest way. I love the fact I live in a country where ppl don't overcomplicate things :)


Bear in mind that the stock agencies should be up on this and depending on the image you may get rejections if they are nervous about legal issues.

wut

« Reply #34 on: January 27, 2012, 17:52 »
0
You might find some useful info here from the European Central Bank regarding Euro banknotes:
http://www.ecb.int/pub/pdf/other/bnlegalen.pdf
(Only 103 pp. Start reading from p7, which section, on an extremely quick skim, might address the faking issue.)

Depending on how you intend to destroy the notes in your image, would it work if you make very generic fake money for your shoot?


Liz, I'm really thankful you're trying so hard to help me, but I don't have the time (nor the will to be honest) to go through all that. I just spoke to a microstocker from my city, they went to the copy store and they copied few sheets of dollars, they even asked if they want them cut into bills. Complete service. I'll just do that, it's the simplest way. I love the fact I live in a country where ppl don't overcomplicate things :)


Bear in mind that the stock agencies should be up on this and depending on the image you may get rejections if they are nervous about legal issues.


At least when it comes to photodune I'm sure I'll be better off than with shoots that are featuring nipple protrusion ;D . Well I'm not even sure I'm going to be in the mood for all that hassle tomorrow. I'll report back about inspections if I do manage to produce and shoot fake money in question


 

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