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Author Topic: Fine Arts America.  (Read 3618 times)

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« on: September 16, 2020, 14:44 »
0
Is anyone having a problem uploading to Fine Arts America?  Also I am seeing missing letters all over the portfolio page.  Thanks.


« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2020, 15:39 »
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After a very long hiatus, I've been uploading there today. So far (other than the clunky UI) everything is working as expected). Mac OS, Chrome Browser

« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2020, 17:22 »
+2
Is anyone having a problem uploading to Fine Arts America?  Also I am seeing missing letters all over the portfolio page.  Thanks.

I wasnt uploading there for a while but If you are using their batch uploader, that thing is pretty much always buggy so I stick with single image upload.

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2020, 12:08 »
+1
Is anyone having a problem uploading to Fine Arts America?  Also I am seeing missing letters all over the portfolio page.  Thanks.

I wasnt uploading there for a while but If you are using their batch uploader, that thing is pretty much always buggy so I stick with single image upload.

Thanks for the warming, FAA is on my Fall project list.

« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2020, 13:49 »
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I don't know Fine Arts America, but it sell for good price? Can i sell landscape photos i have in microstock there? People from Venezuela can sell there?
Thanks!

« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2020, 16:08 »
+2
I don't know Fine Arts America, but it sell for good price? Can i sell landscape photos i have in microstock there? People from Venezuela can sell there?
Thanks!

You can sell prints or print-on-demand items (tote bags, greetings cards, etc.) via Fine Art America and you get to set the markup. In other words, if their cost to print an item on canvas is $25, you get to set your markup (let's say $10) and the resulting price for the buyer is $35.

You can use microstock images - nothing is exclusive - but bear in mind what sells is something people want to look at (versus some of the useful shots that do well for stock agencies). I don't know of any reason they couldn't allow a contributor from Venezuela, but you have to be able to receive payments via PayPal.

https://fineartamerica.com/termsofuse.html?document=contributortermsofuse

If you start with a free account, you can only upload 25 items and see how things go. If you want to upload more, you need the premium account at $30 per year.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2020, 17:05 by Jo Ann Snover »

« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2020, 16:18 »
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and while uploading is a hassle, setting up templates for products is easy

« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2020, 16:30 »
+1
I am there and so far so good.

« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2020, 18:13 »
0
I don't know Fine Arts America, but it sell for good price? Can i sell landscape photos i have in microstock there? People from Venezuela can sell there?
Thanks!

You can sell prints or print-on-demand items (tote bags, greetings cards, etc.) via Fine Art America and you get to set the markup. In other words, if their cost to print an item on canvas is $25, you get to set your markup (let's say $10) and the resulting price for the buyer is $35.

You can use microstock images - nothing is exclusive - but bear in mind what sells is something people want to look at (versus some of the useful shots that do well for stock agencies). I don't know of any reason they couldn't allow a contributor from Venezuela, but you have to be able to receive payments via PayPal.

https://fineartamerica.com/termsofuse.html?document=contributortermsofuse

If you start with a free account, you can only upload 25 items and see how things go. If you want to upload more, you need the premium account at $30 per year.
Thank you so much very kind Jo Ann Snover.
I have another question. I have to print the photos and send them,   or someone else will do it in the Fine Art America web page give print service?
I would sell nature landscapes from Venezuela, and another South America countries.
Thank you again! :)
« Last Edit: September 18, 2020, 18:15 by alexandersr »

« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2020, 19:21 »
+2
I have to print the photos and send them,   or someone else will do it in the Fine Art America web page give print service?

Fine Art America does all the printing and shipping. You just collect your share from them - they pay out on the 15th of each month automatically.

« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2020, 07:39 »
0
I have to print the photos and send them,   or someone else will do it in the Fine Art America web page give print service?

Fine Art America does all the printing and shipping. You just collect your share from them - they pay out on the 15th of each month automatically.
Thank you so much! You are very kind! :)

« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2020, 09:26 »
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Can you upload to Fine Art America via FTP?

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2020, 10:02 »
+1
I don't know Fine Arts America, but it sell for good price? Can i sell landscape photos i have in microstock there? People from Venezuela can sell there?
Thanks!

Aside from all the great answers from Jo Ann, it's simply a Print On Demand site, you upload your images, decide what prices (I use the default) they make the items, ship and credit you with a percentage. Wall Art

There is also the Pixels.com Sister site, with home decor, mugs, stationary, T-shirts. Everything you upload to FAA is mirrored on Pixels.

I have the free 25 account, which is a good way to see what you think of the site. They dropped the annual fee for the pay accounts, which makes this more interesting as an alternative. I'm thinking of something as a Winter project.

My 25 are selected as wall art, many are not on Microstock, some are a bit "artsy". Two sales large prints. Never a sale on Pixel yet but someone would have to want a panorama or scenic on their blanket or mug?


« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2020, 10:48 »
0
I don't know Fine Arts America, but it sell for good price? Can i sell landscape photos i have in microstock there? People from Venezuela can sell there?
Thanks!

Aside from all the great answers from Jo Ann, it's simply a Print On Demand site, you upload your images, decide what prices (I use the default) they make the items, ship and credit you with a percentage. Wall Art

There is also the Pixels.com Sister site, with home decor, mugs, stationary, T-shirts. Everything you upload to FAA is mirrored on Pixels.

I have the free 25 account, which is a good way to see what you think of the site. They dropped the annual fee for the pay accounts, which makes this more interesting as an alternative. I'm thinking of something as a Winter project.

My 25 are selected as wall art, many are not on Microstock, some are a bit "artsy". Two sales large prints. Never a sale on Pixel yet but someone would have to want a panorama or scenic on their blanket or mug?
Thank you Uncle Pete !

« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2020, 14:46 »
+2
The $30 fee is still there

https://fineartamerica.com/membershipplans.html

I stopped paying for several years (I didn't upload). I kept all the uploads I already had and received my payment on sales (just not the accessory commission you get if you're a "premium" member).

I wanted to add some more work there, so I re-upped my fee to allow me to upload again.

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2020, 15:38 »
+4
Also be aware that FAA's main (not 'only') market is the US*, so you should prioritise providing material for them. The base prices (even without artist commission) seem very expensive to me (in the UK) but I've heard a few people say that the prices are fairly standard in the US market.

Be careful about believing too much of what they say, both officially and on their forum. Things aren't necessarily what they seem there.
That said, I've heard that the quality of purchased products is good, and I get a few sales there, so I just keep going.

*This is a "random selection" of recent print sales, so you can get an idea of what sells: https://fineartamerica.com/recentprintsales.html
« Last Edit: September 19, 2020, 15:48 by ShadySue »

« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2020, 16:42 »
+2
Also be aware that FAA's main (not 'only') market is the US*, so you should prioritise providing material for them. The base prices (even without artist commission) seem very expensive to me (in the UK) but I've heard a few people say that the prices are fairly standard in the US market.

Be careful about believing too much of what they say, both officially and on their forum. Things aren't necessarily what they seem there.
That said, I've heard that the quality of purchased products is good, and I get a few sales there, so I just keep going.

*This is a "random selection" of recent print sales, so you can get an idea of what sells: https://fineartamerica.com/recentprintsales.html

I was looking through the recently solds...its kind of incredible what people will pay good money for and hang on their walls! 😀

I had some things there a long time ago. Never sold anything, but I mostly shot for print and web, not much nature, etc. Did they always charge the annual fee? If not, thats probably why I left, when they instituted it. I just didnt think I could even recoup the fee.



« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2020, 17:36 »
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The $30 fee is still there

https://fineartamerica.com/membershipplans.html

I stopped paying for several years (I didn't upload). I kept all the uploads I already had and received my payment on sales (just not the accessory commission you get if you're a "premium" member).

I wanted to add some more work there, so I re-upped my fee to allow me to upload again.
Thank you again!

« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2020, 17:36 »
0
Also be aware that FAA's main (not 'only') market is the US*, so you should prioritise providing material for them. The base prices (even without artist commission) seem very expensive to me (in the UK) but I've heard a few people say that the prices are fairly standard in the US market.

Be careful about believing too much of what they say, both officially and on their forum. Things aren't necessarily what they seem there.
That said, I've heard that the quality of purchased products is good, and I get a few sales there, so I just keep going.

*This is a "random selection" of recent print sales, so you can get an idea of what sells: https://fineartamerica.com/recentprintsales.html

Thank you!

« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2020, 12:12 »
+2
I make back the $30 fee shortly after I pay it each year. With COVID sales have slowed there (although the stimulus checks in April here in the US seemed to set off a buying spree - but down to one or two sales a month since then). I'm hopeful it will get back to normal whenever the world does.

I'm in the US and sell mostly US scenics as well as some more experimental fine art and digital art there.

I'm also on Photo4Me, a UK site and have only sold European scenics there.

« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2020, 12:23 »
+3
I have been on FA for about four years. I  made back my yearly subscription cost the first two years. I stopped paying the subscription fee the next two years and they keep my images online and they keep selling them.  Making around 60 bucks a year with 1800 images. I could not upload new images without renewing the subscription. I just renewed it about three weeks ago and started uploading new items. We will see how this years goes. 

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2020, 13:07 »
+3
I have been on FA for about four years. I  made back my yearly subscription cost the first two years. I stopped paying the subscription fee the next two years and they keep my images online and they keep selling them.  Making around 60 bucks a year with 1800 images. I could not upload new images without renewing the subscription. I just renewed it about three weeks ago and started uploading new items. We will see how this years goes.
That's odd, one year I forgot I'd had to change my credit card so my and all of my content was removed from FAA immediately they tried to collect the money and failed (they use that sneaky thing which isn't a direct debit or standing order, can't remember what it's called) - i.e. it was gone by the time I saw the email telling me. Luckily, it was just 'switched off' and the minute I paid, it was restored, I didn't have to upload everything again.

« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2020, 17:20 »
+3
FAA is a different market than MS -- 'fine art' for prints & greeting cards, but patterns etc for phone covers, mugs etc

FAA pushes artist 'involvement' with likes & comments & follows but no real value there; getting your image featured puts it on on the group's home page. each group has a forum, but there's rarely any discussions or questions.

I admin 7 groups with 1000, 350 artists & about 50 each for the other 5.  they have 10k, 4 k & 200--600 images, so reasonable search size if you can get buyers to your group. it's unclear how many buyers use the groups and just do a keyword search

rinderart

« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2020, 22:41 »
+2
Im sorry But after   25 years Plus selling Online I would never....."EVER" recommend FAA to sell anything Original I created. The Place is filled with IE...Idiots who see a Lennon Photo taken Before they were Born...Run it through a stupid filter and sell it as their "ART" Im sorry. That is not their art. I tried with my work when they started then bailed Out right away.
Sites Like this are nothing but an embarrassment. One of many guys.
Build your own site and do the promotion work. Thats what it takes.
WWW.Rinderart.com I sell a whole Lot of stuff to be used in TV shows ETC.....and I have contracts ready to be signed. Will Smiths daughter was My last Customer. She Paid $400.00 for the use of a Image.

Suggest Most of you get you heads out of Penny stock. It's over.Sorry.And been Over quite awhile if this is your Profession.
maybe, Just maybe there better at this now. Build a site and Promote it.Still the best way. but, It's a job.
https://www.microstockgroup.com/product-resale-forum/my-fine-art-america-account-is-closed/

Maybe FAA is better now. don't know.....Don't care.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2020, 11:00 by rinderart »

« Reply #24 on: September 21, 2020, 11:10 »
0
Im sorry But after   25 years Plus selling Online I would never....."EVER" recommend FAA to sell anything Original I created. The Place is filled with IE...Idiots who see a Lennon Photo taken Before they were Born...Run it through a stupid filter and sell it as their "ART" Im sorry. That is not their art. I tried with my work when they started then bailed Out right away.
Sites Like this are nothing but an embarrassment. One of many guys.
Build your own site and do the promotion work. Thats what it takes.
WWW.Rinderart.com I sell a whole Lot of stuff to be used in TV shows ETC.....and I have contracts ready to be signed. Will Smiths daughter was My last Customer. She Paid $400.00 for the use of a Image.

Suggest Most of you get you heads out of Penny stock. It's over.Sorry.And been Over quite awhile if this is your Profession.
maybe, Just maybe there better at this now. Build a site and Promote it.Still the best way. but, It's a job.
https://www.microstockgroup.com/product-resale-forum/my-fine-art-america-account-is-closed/

Maybe FAA is better now. don't know.....Don't care.

How do you prevent your photos from being stolen?

« Reply #25 on: September 21, 2020, 18:10 »
0
Just a tip for those who plan to sell based just on their search engine:

Lets say you are selling landscapes. If Im not mistaken their pages show 35 pages of results and about 70 or so images per page so only 2450 images altogether are shown in the search.
So, there are cca 2,5M images results for landscape of which 2 497 550 don't even show in the search.

Same goes even for long-tail keywords if the words are popular.

Basically if you want to sell there on constant basis you have to build your marketing system and actively promote your work or have a specialized niche with low competition. Sure, occasional sales are happening but most people who do really well there say that they spend way more time on promoting than on creating art.   






« Reply #26 on: September 21, 2020, 18:23 »
+1
Easy you put a watermark Big and a low res photo Besides when you upload something online you know someone will grab it At least low res files prevent the thiefs to use the image commercially which in that case they need the big size of the photo


« Reply #27 on: September 21, 2020, 18:26 »
+1
Im sorry But after   25 years Plus selling Online I would never....."EVER" recommend FAA to sell anything Original I created. The Place is filled with IE...Idiots who see a Lennon Photo taken Before they were Born...Run it through a stupid filter and sell it as their "ART" Im sorry. That is not their art. I tried with my work when they started then bailed Out right away.
Sites Like this are nothing but an embarrassment. One of many guys.
Build your own site and do the promotion work. Thats what it takes.
WWW.Rinderart.com I sell a whole Lot of stuff to be used in TV shows ETC.....and I have contracts ready to be signed. Will Smiths daughter was My last Customer. She Paid $400.00 for the use of a Image.

Suggest Most of you get you heads out of Penny stock. It's over.Sorry.And been Over quite awhile if this is your Profession.
maybe, Just maybe there better at this now. Build a site and Promote it.Still the best way. but, It's a job.
https://www.microstockgroup.com/product-resale-forum/my-fine-art-america-account-is-closed/

Maybe FAA is better now. don't know.....Don't care.


Sure, there are idiots everywhere but there are also a lot of great artists there who don't have anything to be embarrassed from. Same as on microstock sites and you still decided to sell there.

One of the things that makes FAA convenient is that you get your personal pixels.ccom site which is basically FAA store clone  which you can use as a store implemented in your personal website or by app on page, or via link to your pixels store where only your work is shown. Extremely useful especially for reducing shipping costs because they have like 10 or so print facilities around the world and they ship from buyers nearest location. Not even to mention that everything is automated so you don't have to do anything. Some say that their base print price is high, but comparing to small place where I live I save a lot even on that + shipping costs + time not invested on printing packing and + occasional sales from FAA main page trough search engine. So It works well for me.

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #28 on: September 22, 2020, 10:09 »
+2
Is anyone having a problem uploading to Fine Arts America?  Also I am seeing missing letters all over the portfolio page.  Thanks.

Note: it's  Fine Art America  :)

Im sorry But after   25 years Plus selling Online I would never....."EVER" recommend FAA to sell anything Original I created. The Place is filled with IE...Idiots who see a Lennon Photo taken Before they were Born...Run it through a stupid filter and sell it as their "ART" Im sorry. That is not their art. I tried with my work when they started then bailed Out right away.
Sites Like this are nothing but an embarrassment. One of many guys.
Build your own site and do the promotion work. Thats what it takes. I sell a whole Lot of stuff to be used in TV shows ETC.....and I have contracts ready to be signed. Will Smiths daughter was My last Customer. She Paid $400.00 for the use of a Image.

Maybe FAA is better now. don't know.....Don't care.

How do I contact the people and sell to TV shows like you do?


Sure, there are idiots everywhere but there are also a lot of great artists there who don't have anything to be embarrassed from. Same as on microstock sites and you still decided to sell there.

One of the things that makes FAA convenient is that you get your personal pixels.ccom site which is basically FAA store clone  which you can use as a store implemented in your personal website or by app on page, or via link to your pixels store where only your work is shown. Extremely useful especially for reducing shipping costs because they have like 10 or so print facilities around the world and they ship from buyers nearest location. Not even to mention that everything is automated so you don't have to do anything. Some say that their base print price is high, but comparing to small place where I live I save a lot even on that + shipping costs + time not invested on printing packing and + occasional sales from FAA main page trough search engine. So It works well for me.

True, the site is what people make of it and the Pixels can be used on my own website, if I want to promote.

rinderart

« Reply #29 on: September 22, 2020, 11:09 »
0
I sell Framed Prints.....For a Lot of Money. I want the best I can get. FAA does not do that. If it works for your customers?....Great. I Custom mount and frame My Prints also. I tested many, many Printers. I rated FAA a 4. I use "NASH EDITIONS" Graham Nash from Crosby,Stills and Nash His company is #1. My clients and where I show. demands the Best I can get.. Ya just want a fairly good Print. go to Costco. I need color matched Archival work and I need Proofing.I also do the signed archival matts and build My frames, I've been Printing My work over 50 Years........And BTW.....I just got a Large raise at SS.
Why? Don't know......Don't Care.
And what . does this mean. Microstock is Only one Outlet man. and Im doing stock  a Lot longer than SS has been around and Longer than the Internet.

"Same as on microstock sites and you still decided to sell there."
This Place is getting real Boring.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2020, 11:13 by rinderart »

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #30 on: September 22, 2020, 11:27 »
+1
I sell Framed Prints.....For a Lot of Money. I want the best I can get. FAA does not do that. If it works for your customers?....Great. I Custom mount and frame My Prints also. I tested many, many Printers. I rated FAA a 4. I use "NASH EDITIONS" Graham Nash from Crosby,Stills and Nash His company is #1. My clients and where I show. demands the Best I can get.. Ya just want a fairly good Print. go to Costco. I need color matched Archival work and I need Proofing.I also do the signed archival matts and build My frames, I've been Printing My work over 50 Years........And BTW.....I just got a Large raise at SS.
Why? Don't know......Don't Care.
And what . does this mean. Microstock is Only one Outlet man. and Im doing stock  a Lot longer than SS has been around and Longer than the Internet.

"Same as on microstock sites and you still decided to sell there."
This Place is getting real Boring.

FAA is not Microstock it's a Print on Demand site, and pixels makes mugs, blankets, shirts, cards and products. I have one of those "cool" canvas prints on my wall, free from Walgreens as a promotion. Nice, entertaining, looks nice, no frame. People like them, while I'm not a fan. But for free I have a nice waterfall photo in the living room.  8)

Nope they aren't color matched archival products, in expensive custom frames, but no one claims they are anything other than print on demand, easy distribution and an available outlet.

I wish I could understand what your point was in that?

« Reply #31 on: September 22, 2020, 13:43 »
+2
I sell Framed Prints.....For a Lot of Money. I want the best I can get.

So do I...and Im not complaining either.

If it works for your customers?....Great. I Custom mount and frame My Prints also.

It obviously does because they keep coming back.  FAA offers nice selection of 100+ pretty quality frames that buyers can select on the spot without need that I loose my time discussing that with them.

I tested many, many Printers. I rated FAA a 4. I use "NASH EDITIONS" Graham Nash from Crosby,Stills and Nash His company is #1. My clients and where I show. demands the Best I can get...Ya just want a fairly good Print. go to Costco.

As I focus on large prints where FAA can deliver 108" and as I see Nash Editions can do up to 60" that's a huge point for FAA which in my case nullifies slight difference in colors which most of the buyers wont even notice even if you point that out to them.

I need color matched Archival work and I need Proofing.I also do the signed archival matts and build My frames

I need a place with good quality products, low expenses in terms of material, printing, packing and shipping costs where I can showcase and sell my prints to buyers who are happy with my art to the level that they keep coming back and recommend my work to their friends. FAA does exactly that.

I've been Printing My work over 50 Years......


Good for you, I'm doing it for 20 and Im not planning to stop.   

And BTW.....I just got a Large raise at SS.
Why? Don't know......Don't Care.

And what . does this mean. Microstock is Only one Outlet man. and Im doing stock  a Lot longer than SS has been around and Longer than the Internet.


I agree, don't know....don't care. But if I have to guess, probably they don't want to get rid of the only living photographer who witnessed and is in possession of original negatives of the Big Bang or the moment Eve decided to take the apple from that snake.


"Same as on microstock sites and you still decided to sell there."
This Place is getting real Boring.

When you call out and insult other artist that they have to be embarrassed to sell among "idiots" on FAA and you should at least expect a remark on your SS work. I mean the man, the myth, the legend putting his work for sale at 10cents among amateur snapshots of smiley faces finger drawn in minced meat, something doesn't hold water. I mean I would expect such move from myself who don't care about color matched Archival work and and who doesn't  need Proofing or buildin my own frames...but from you, never.

The only thing boring here is when one reads your post about being there from stone age for the 3765234576889787. time as an argument in serious conversation.






rinderart

« Reply #32 on: September 22, 2020, 13:59 »
+1
OK...MSG account closed, Im done. be well.BTW. I don't get 10 cents.  got a raise today from SS.

« Reply #33 on: September 22, 2020, 14:14 »
0
OK...MSG account closed, Im done. be well.BTW. I don't get 10 cents.  got a raise today from SS.

Im sorry things got a bit hot and that you decided to leave and I can just wish you the best.

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #34 on: September 22, 2020, 14:26 »
0
OK...MSG account closed, Im done. be well.BTW. I don't get 10 cents.  got a raise today from SS.

Im sorry things got a bit hot and that you decided to leave and I can just wish you the best.
He said last week that he was going to leave here very soon.

« Reply #35 on: September 22, 2020, 14:27 »
+5
OK...MSG account closed, Im done. be well.BTW. I don't get 10 cents.  got a raise today from SS.

Hell be back. And Ill be pleased. In the years Ive been in the group Ive learned more about b/w photography from Lauren Rinder (in posting asides, not in actively seeking his help) than anywhere else. In printing, framing and glazing your own images its a nightmare. European and the US postal services are incredibly resourceful in finding ways to shatter glass.

Photoshelter offers a selection of printers which works for me as one is close by, professional and takes the risk on things getting broken. I put some arty stuff on FAA and stuck a couple of other items on the end to fill my free quota. What sold? Yup, the stuff on the end. Including a duvet cover. That is how I want my kids to remember me: my dad took a picture so good people wanted to sleep with it.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2020, 14:43 by douglas »

« Reply #36 on: September 23, 2020, 10:07 »
0
What's happened?


« Reply #37 on: September 23, 2020, 10:59 »
+10
What's happened?

If you mean to Lauren Rinder, he closed his account and left. He's been around microstock almost from the beginning, and is a very talented photographer, but is very impatient & volatile. Periodic blow-ups and walk-outs are part of the scenery.

If you were wondering if it was something you said, no worries :)

« Reply #38 on: September 23, 2020, 11:29 »
0
Yeah don't worry about, he'll be back in a few days. Does this all the time on here and on SS

« Reply #39 on: September 23, 2020, 14:23 »
0
Quote
  Hell be back. And Ill be pleased. In the years Ive been in the group Ive learned more about b/w photography from Lauren Rinder (in posting asides, not in actively seeking his help) than anywhere else.     

I agree. I just hope that physically hes ok. Hes always been kind to me. As for blowups, I totally get that. Ive seen lots of people over the years do the same. Sometimes people here just try your patience.

« Reply #40 on: September 23, 2020, 22:10 »
0
Easy you put a watermark Big and a low res photo Besides when you upload something online you know someone will grab it At least low res files prevent the thiefs to use the image commercially which in that case they need the big size of the photo

huh? why would a thief be interested in then buying your image when there are so many hi res images to choose from?

worrying about theft is a waste of time - it'll happen and there's little you can do about it, other than crippling your site so it ticks off legitimate users (there are, of course, ways to disable the use of right click to download an image)

« Reply #41 on: September 23, 2020, 22:19 »
0
   
 
One of the things that makes FAA convenient is that you get your personal pixels.ccom site which is basically FAA store clone  which you can use as a store implemented in your personal website or by app on page, or via link to your pixels store where only your work is shown. 

EXCEPT for the little fact that when  someone does a search on 'your' pixel site, the results come from the entire FAA collection, so any users you may attract are soon lured away

« Reply #42 on: September 24, 2020, 01:49 »
0
wordplanet wrote:
#I'm in the US and sell mostly US scenics as well as some more experimental fine art and digital art there.

I'm also on Photo4Me, a UK site and have only sold European scenics there.#

I know about that. My problem is, I stay in Indonesia and take of course many photos from here, Malaysia, Thailand and Singapore.

Where is a market for prints from landsscapes and other kind of PHOTOS based in Asia?

Any kind of FAA in Asia?

Thanks for your ideas.

And one other thing:
Mostly sold on FAA are not photographs, mostly real painted arts or strange motifs which of course only get sold in America.

Is there any kind of FAA, where PHOTOS for print sold more than others?

« Reply #43 on: September 24, 2020, 10:28 »
0
wordplanet wrote:
#I'm in the US and sell mostly US scenics as well as some more experimental fine art and digital art there.

I'm also on Photo4Me, a UK site and have only sold European scenics there.#

I know about that. My problem is, I stay in Indonesia and take of course many photos from here, Malaysia, Thailand and Singapore.

Where is a market for prints from landsscapes and other kind of PHOTOS based in Asia?

Any kind of FAA in Asia?

Thanks for your ideas.

And one other thing:
Mostly sold on FAA are not photographs, mostly real painted arts or strange motifs which of course only get sold in America.

Is there any kind of FAA, where PHOTOS for print sold more than others?
What about Photo4Me, it sells well?

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #44 on: September 24, 2020, 10:57 »
0

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #45 on: September 24, 2020, 11:25 »
+1
What about Photo4Me, it sells well?
wordplanet wrote:
Quote
I'm also on Photo4Me, a UK site and have only sold European scenics there.
I have one pic there. Seemed like you had to get into a lot of likes to get likes back which might push your photos up in the rankings. The market is mostly UK, as far as I know.

« Reply #46 on: September 24, 2020, 13:01 »
0
I am on both, FAA and s6,

but I look for a market, which like photos from Asia, maybe a market like FAA or s6, but in Aisa.


« Reply #47 on: September 24, 2020, 15:13 »
+2
   
 
One of the things that makes FAA convenient is that you get your personal pixels.ccom site which is basically FAA store clone  which you can use as a store implemented in your personal website or by app on page, or via link to your pixels store where only your work is shown. 

EXCEPT for the little fact that when  someone does a search on 'your' pixel site, the results come from the entire FAA collection, so any users you may attract are soon lured away

No it doesn't. That happens only on your FAA profile page. On your personal pixels.com site only your work shows up and nothing else.

I was 100% sure in this but I just checked again. Only your work shows up and its a huge + 

« Reply #48 on: September 24, 2020, 15:53 »
0
What about Photo4Me, it sells well?
wordplanet wrote:
Quote
I'm also on Photo4Me, a UK site and have only sold European scenics there.
I have one pic there. Seemed like you had to get into a lot of likes to get likes back which might push your photos up in the rankings. The market is mostly UK, as far as I know.
Thanks!

« Reply #49 on: September 24, 2020, 16:19 »
+1
   
 
One of the things that makes FAA convenient is that you get your personal pixels.ccom site which is basically FAA store clone  which you can use as a store implemented in your personal website or by app on page, or via link to your pixels store where only your work is shown. 

EXCEPT for the little fact that when  someone does a search on 'your' pixel site, the results come from the entire FAA collection, so any users you may attract are soon lured away

No it doesn't. That happens only on your FAA profile page. On your personal pixels.com site only your work shows up and nothing else.

I was 100% sure in this but I just checked again. Only your work shows up and its a huge +

correct - when someone comes to your page only your work is shown but , as i sad,  do a SEARCH from the top of your page and the user sees work from everyone

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #50 on: September 24, 2020, 16:41 »
+1
   
 
One of the things that makes FAA convenient is that you get your personal pixels.ccom site which is basically FAA store clone  which you can use as a store implemented in your personal website or by app on page, or via link to your pixels store where only your work is shown. 

EXCEPT for the little fact that when  someone does a search on 'your' pixel site, the results come from the entire FAA collection, so any users you may attract are soon lured away

No it doesn't. That happens only on your FAA profile page. On your personal pixels.com site only your work shows up and nothing else.

I was 100% sure in this but I just checked again. Only your work shows up and its a huge +

correct - when someone comes to your page only your work is shown but , as i sad,  do a SEARCH from the top of your page and the user sees work from everyone
Not in pixels.com - just my own work inside my pixels 'site', and that's with me logged out, so not 'flattering' me in the search, which sometimes happens in FAA.

« Reply #51 on: September 24, 2020, 21:49 »
+1
   
 
One of the things that makes FAA convenient is that you get your personal pixels.ccom site which is basically FAA store clone  which you can use as a store implemented in your personal website or by app on page, or via link to your pixels store where only your work is shown. 

EXCEPT for the little fact that when  someone does a search on 'your' pixel site, the results come from the entire FAA collection, so any users you may attract are soon lured away

No it doesn't. That happens only on your FAA profile page. On your personal pixels.com site only your work shows up and nothing else.

I was 100% sure in this but I just checked again. Only your work shows up and its a huge +

correct - when someone comes to your page only your work is shown but , as i sad,  do a SEARCH from the top of your page and the user sees work from everyone

Again...as I said...no it doesn't  :D .  There is no way that someone using top search on MY pixels.com page get any art that is not mine and that I haven't uploaded there.
I dont know if it happens with free option or when your subscription expires,  but at this point there is no way that it happens.

You are probably talking about pixel.com main page profiles and not about personal pages which act as private stores. On any personal page you can just search trough that persons art, and any search on that private store cannot take you away besides two little links to FAA and pixels.com at the bottom of the footer.

You can even assign a custom domain yourname.com to it if you want.


Here is an example of a nice little pixels.com shop i just googled so feel free to test the search and you an see for yourself that you can browse just trough his artwork and nothing else.

https://guido-borelli.pixels.com/



« Last Edit: September 24, 2020, 22:08 by Lizard »

« Reply #52 on: September 25, 2020, 09:22 »
0
   
 
One of the things that makes FAA convenient is that you get your personal pixels.ccom site which is basically FAA store clone  which you can use as a store implemented in your personal website or by app on page, or via link to your pixels store where only your work is shown. 

EXCEPT for the little fact that when  someone does a search on 'your' pixel site, the results come from the entire FAA collection, so any users you may attract are soon lured away

No it doesn't. That happens only on your FAA profile page. On your personal pixels.com site only your work shows up and nothing else.

I was 100% sure in this but I just checked again. Only your work shows up and its a huge +

It's happened in the past. Then a bunch of users complained on the forum there, and eventually it was fixed.  I think this happened more than once.

I've been selling there for years, usually a few a month.

« Reply #53 on: September 25, 2020, 13:08 »
0
   
 
One of the things that makes FAA convenient is that you get your personal pixels.ccom site which is basically FAA store clone  which you can use as a store implemented in your personal website or by app on page, or via link to your pixels store where only your work is shown. 

EXCEPT for the little fact that when  someone does a search on 'your' pixel site, the results come from the entire FAA collection, so any users you may attract are soon lured away

No it doesn't. That happens only on your FAA profile page. On your personal pixels.com site only your work shows up and nothing else.

I was 100% sure in this but I just checked again. Only your work shows up and its a huge +

It's happened in the past. Then a bunch of users complained on the forum there, and eventually it was fixed.  I think this happened more than once.

I've been selling there for years, usually a few a month.

Really strange, Im there from 2013. and somehow it never happened to me, and Im on my account almost on daily basis so I would probably have noticed. That not happening is one of the main reasons i use FAA at first place because than the personal store would lose its purpose.

« Reply #54 on: September 25, 2020, 17:38 »
0
   
 
One of the things that makes FAA convenient is that you get your personal pixels.ccom site which is basically FAA store clone  which you can use as a store implemented in your personal website or by app on page, or via link to your pixels store where only your work is shown. 


EXCEPT for the little fact that when  someone does a search on 'your' pixel site, the results come from the entire FAA collection, so any users you may attract are soon lured away

No it doesn't. That happens only on your FAA profile page. On your personal pixels.com site only your work shows up and nothing else.

I was 100% sure in this but I just checked again. Only your work shows up and its a huge +

It's happened in the past. Then a bunch of users complained on the forum there, and eventually it was fixed.  I think this happened more than once.

I've been selling there for years, usually a few a month.

Really strange, Im there from 2013. and somehow it never happened to me, and Im on my account almost on daily basis so I would probably have noticed. That not happening is one of the main reasons i use FAA at first place because than the personal store would lose its purpose.

pixels does a nice display of your work, it's the search that lures people away

 i noticed this when  i first returned earlier this year & FAA acknowledged this was the case and went on to say pixels wasnt really meant for personal sites but to display the entire collection by all!

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #55 on: September 25, 2020, 17:46 »
+2
   
 
One of the things that makes FAA convenient is that you get your personal pixels.ccom site which is basically FAA store clone  which you can use as a store implemented in your personal website or by app on page, or via link to your pixels store where only your work is shown. 


EXCEPT for the little fact that when  someone does a search on 'your' pixel site, the results come from the entire FAA collection, so any users you may attract are soon lured away

No it doesn't. That happens only on your FAA profile page. On your personal pixels.com site only your work shows up and nothing else.

I was 100% sure in this but I just checked again. Only your work shows up and its a huge +

It's happened in the past. Then a bunch of users complained on the forum there, and eventually it was fixed.  I think this happened more than once.

I've been selling there for years, usually a few a month.

Really strange, Im there from 2013. and somehow it never happened to me, and Im on my account almost on daily basis so I would probably have noticed. That not happening is one of the main reasons i use FAA at first place because than the personal store would lose its purpose.

pixels does a nice display of your work, it's the search that lures people away

 i noticed this when  i first returned earlier this year & FAA acknowledged this was the case and went on to say pixels wasnt really meant for personal sites but to display the entire collection by all!
I've just been again on my pixels site, and like last night, I can't seem to do anything there which brings up anyone's images other than my own. What are you doing to bring up a general search?

« Reply #56 on: September 25, 2020, 18:40 »
+1
   
 
One of the things that makes FAA convenient is that you get your personal pixels.ccom site which is basically FAA store clone  which you can use as a store implemented in your personal website or by app on page, or via link to your pixels store where only your work is shown. 


EXCEPT for the little fact that when  someone does a search on 'your' pixel site, the results come from the entire FAA collection, so any users you may attract are soon lured away

No it doesn't. That happens only on your FAA profile page. On your personal pixels.com site only your work shows up and nothing else.

I was 100% sure in this but I just checked again. Only your work shows up and its a huge +

It's happened in the past. Then a bunch of users complained on the forum there, and eventually it was fixed.  I think this happened more than once.

I've been selling there for years, usually a few a month.

Really strange, Im there from 2013. and somehow it never happened to me, and Im on my account almost on daily basis so I would probably have noticed. That not happening is one of the main reasons i use FAA at first place because than the personal store would lose its purpose.

pixels does a nice display of your work, it's the search that lures people away

 i noticed this when  i first returned earlier this year & FAA acknowledged this was the case and went on to say pixels wasnt really meant for personal sites but to display the entire collection by all!

Once again we are not talking about pixels.com main site but personal pages you get to use as your own stores.

Here is a link to one random example store, anyone can try a top search and the only authors work  you can get is the page owner. Try it yourself. It absolutely impossible to get anyone elses work. Which more prove do you need ? 

https://guido-borelli.pixels.com
« Last Edit: September 25, 2020, 18:46 by Lizard »


« Reply #57 on: September 25, 2020, 19:27 »
+1
   
 
One of the things that makes FAA convenient is that you get your personal pixels.ccom site which is basically FAA store clone  which you can use as a store implemented in your personal website or by app on page, or via link to your pixels store where only your work is shown. 


EXCEPT for the little fact that when  someone does a search on 'your' pixel site, the results come from the entire FAA collection, so any users you may attract are soon lured away

No it doesn't. That happens only on your FAA profile page. On your personal pixels.com site only your work shows up and nothing else.

I was 100% sure in this but I just checked again. Only your work shows up and its a huge +

It's happened in the past. Then a bunch of users complained on the forum there, and eventually it was fixed.  I think this happened more than once.

I've been selling there for years, usually a few a month.

Really strange, Im there from 2013. and somehow it never happened to me, and Im on my account almost on daily basis so I would probably have noticed. That not happening is one of the main reasons i use FAA at first place because than the personal store would lose its purpose.

pixels does a nice display of your work, it's the search that lures people away

 i noticed this when  i first returned earlier this year & FAA acknowledged this was the case and went on to say pixels wasnt really meant for personal sites but to display the entire collection by all!

Once again we are not talking about pixels.com main site but personal pages you get to use as your own stores.

Here is a link to one random example store, anyone can try a top search and the only authors work  you can get is the page owner. Try it yourself. It absolutely impossible to get anyone elses work. Which more prove do you need ? 

https://guido-borelli.pixels.com

Thanks!

Yes , i can see and i figure out with your example and i can see my page in pixels.com, look https://1-alexander-sanchez.pixels.com/

« Reply #58 on: September 26, 2020, 18:43 »
0

I've just been again on my pixels site, and like last night, I can't seem to do anything there which brings up anyone's images other than my own. What are you doing to bring up a general search?

ok, i found the reason for diff results

there are 2 ways to access a site

 https://steve-estvanik.pixels.com  is the one y'all have been using and keeps you on the site


but there's another version from within FAA and which i found searching google for 'pixels estvanik' (i didnt remember the site name since i use the widget on my website)
https://pixels.com/art/estvanik   this one takes you away when you search   
« Last Edit: September 26, 2020, 18:46 by cascoly »

« Reply #59 on: September 26, 2020, 20:15 »
+3

I've just been again on my pixels site, and like last night, I can't seem to do anything there which brings up anyone's images other than my own. What are you doing to bring up a general search?

ok, i found the reason for diff results

there are 2 ways to access a site

 https://steve-estvanik.pixels.com  is the one y'all have been using and keeps you on the site


but there's another version from within FAA and which i found searching google for 'pixels estvanik' (i didnt remember the site name since i use the widget on my website)
https://pixels.com/art/estvanik   this one takes you away when you search

Right, because the second one is just your profile on main pixel.com site which is pretty much same as FAA main site and the top search includes art from all artists.

The firs link is your store and if you want to keep you customers around your art only you should promote just that one.   

« Reply #60 on: September 27, 2020, 14:25 »
+2
I've been on FAA for about 8 years, and by some miracle I usually sell a few photos every month.I've been reading their user forum all that time, and I've seen the issues.   You want opinions on FAA, you've come to the right place, I have them.

The FAA "Artist Web Site" sounds like a good deal, and it's better than nothing, but it has some serious shortcomings.

It's not really a web site, just a customized view of the FAA site restricted to your work.  You can't use your own domain (although you can redirect it).   

Customization is very limited; you can't actually get at the HTML/CSS or add any of your own. 

The big issue in my mind is Google.  FAA plays lots of games to funnel Google keyword searches to their main site, not to "your" site.  I think it's very questionable whether an FAA 'Artist' web site gets indexed in any meaningful way, or has useful search ranking.  You never build up your own 'domain authority', you're just adding to FAA's.  And since you don't own the domain, you can't hook up Google Search Console and see what's really happening.

If you use Google's site performance tool, you'll see that an FAA 'artist' site ranks poorly for speed, due mainly to the overly large JPGs they're serving, which the browser has to resize (this is NOT the case on their main site).  And it's also bad on mobile devices.  Google is probably penalizing these sites because of this.  While you can have keywords and a description, the image pages overall are cluttered and repetitious, likely to be rejected by Google's crawler.

Bottom line, one of these 'artist sites' can be useful IF you have your own ways of sending customers to it.  But I don't think you can ever build up a Google ranking.

These are just my opinions and observations.  If someone thinks they're getting good Google ranking for their work on an FAA 'artist' site,  please jump in here.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2020, 16:58 by stockastic »

steheap

  • Author of best selling "Get Started in Stock"

« Reply #61 on: September 27, 2020, 14:33 »
0
Quote
You want opinions on FAA, you've come to the right place, I have them.

Have you ever experimented with pricing - ie bring your margins low for a period to see if sales increase? I think if you have a sale it makes it a bit more likely for that file to appear higher in their own searches so getting some low margin sales might help when you put your prices up again

Steve

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #62 on: September 27, 2020, 15:33 »
0
I've been on FAA for about 8 years, and by some miracle I usually sell a few photos every month.I've been reading their user forum all that time, and I've seen the issues.   You want opinions on FAA, you've come to the right place, I have them.

The FAA "Artist Web Site" sounds like a good deal, and it's better than nothing, but it has some serious shortcomings.

It's not really a web site, just a customized view of the FAA site restricted to your work.  You can't use your own domain (although you can redirect it).   

Customization is very limited; you can't actually get at the HTML or add any of your own. 

The big issue in my mind is Google.  FAA plays lots of games to funnel Google keyword searches to their main site, not to "your" site.  I think it's very questionable whether an FAA 'Artist' web site gets indexed in any meaningful way, or has useful search ranking.  You never build up your own 'domain authority', you're just adding to FAA's.  And since you don't own the domain, you can't hook up Google Search Console and see what's really happening.

If you use Google's site performance tool, you'll see that an FAA 'artist' site ranks poorly for speed, due mainly to the overly large JPGs they're serving, which the browser has to resize (this is NOT the case on their main site).  And it's also bad on mobile devices.  Google is probably penalizing these sites because of this.  While you can have keywords and a description, the image pages overall are cluttered and repetitious, likely to be rejected by Google's crawler.

Bottom line, one of these 'artist sites' can be useful IF you have your own ways of sending customers to it.  But I don't think you can ever build up a Google ranking.

These are just my opinions and observations.  If someone thinks they're getting good Google ranking for their work on an FAA 'artist' site,  please jump in here.

I'm pretty certain you are correct with the above. FAA mostly works for those who do marketing themselves (I don't), they don't pretend otherwise. However, some of their claims, like 'Fully customisable artist website', as you noted, are Trumpian in hoodwinkery.

A similar thing happens, or did until recently, I probably haven't checked for a couple of months, with both iS/Getty and Alamy, whereby if your file turns up in a Google search and  you click on the file and it takes you to a general page, on which your file may not even be visible, which you'd think might be annoying for buyers, but I don't know how many buyers do a google search for stock.

« Reply #63 on: September 27, 2020, 16:12 »
+1
Quote
You want opinions on FAA, you've come to the right place, I have them.

Have you ever experimented with pricing - ie bring your margins low for a period to see if sales increase? I think if you have a sale it makes it a bit more likely for that file to appear higher in their own searches so getting some low margin sales might help when you put your prices up again

Steve

I probably don't sell enough to conduct a useful test.  My markups are pretty low anyway. And for a big print or canvas, the shipping charges outweigh everything else.

I'd say that FAA's internal search rankings are based almost completely on past sales.  And although I do sell some, I haven't seen an upward trend.  During the time I've been there, big content companies like Getty and Conde Nast have cut deals with FAA and come in with their 10s of thousands of images, and so we're now selling against them, in addition to the thousands of new wannabes like me who come in all the time.


gillian vann

  • *Gillian*
« Reply #64 on: September 27, 2020, 17:54 »
0
OK...MSG account closed, Im done. be well.BTW. I don't get 10 cents.  got a raise today from SS.

Im sorry things got a bit hot and that you decided to leave and I can just wish you the best.
He said last week that he was going to leave here very soon.

I only pop in here from time to time so missed this bit of drama. 

Can anyone explain the "I don't get 10 cents.  got a raise today from SS." bit?

« Reply #65 on: September 27, 2020, 19:19 »
+1
OK...MSG account closed, Im done. be well.BTW. I don't get 10 cents.  got a raise today from SS.

Im sorry things got a bit hot and that you decided to leave and I can just wish you the best.
He said last week that he was going to leave here very soon.

I only pop in here from time to time so missed this bit of drama. 

Can anyone explain the "I don't get 10 cents.  got a raise today from SS." bit?

It sounded to me like he negotiated a deal with SS for more money. I think people who sell alot can do that. Im pretty sure Africa Studios negotiated a better deal with SS, too.

« Reply #66 on: October 01, 2020, 01:50 »
0

*This is a "random selection" of recent print sales, so you can get an idea of what sells: https://fineartamerica.com/recentprintsales.html

Very diverse. I'm surprised to see a number of images in there that would normally be submitted to stock agencies as editorial. Images that feature company names, private businesses and copyrighted products. I thought it would be pretty risky submitting content like that to a POD site. I'm not sure how a company would feel if they see their brand name or whatever displayed on a product like a coffee mug without their consent.


« Reply #67 on: October 01, 2020, 11:00 »
0
I'm keen on submitting some of my images to FAA. Though when clicking on individual images to bring up a larger version, I notice there's not much protection against thieves. Some images have a very small watermark near the bottom right hand corner which is not much of a hindrance. And some images have no watermark at all. Is anyone worried about this?

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #68 on: October 01, 2020, 14:52 »
+1
I'm keen on submitting some of my images to FAA. Though when clicking on individual images to bring up a larger version, I notice there's not much protection against thieves. Some images have a very small watermark near the bottom right hand corner which is not much of a hindrance. And some images have no watermark at all. Is anyone worried about this?
Yes**, but I've seen my files* being used on pornsites with big watermarks on porn sites, so you either keep your files off the internet or take a deep breath.
*wildlife images, not (thank goodness) people pics, which I don't do. I can only imagine they thought that someone wanting to see a photo of an elephant or a hippo or whatever really wanted to see porn and would click through and buy.  ::)

** and FAA specifically advise not to use the watermark option, as it puts off buyers. They say they have proof of that. And if you look up a lot of 'big name' fine art photographers, they sell their files much larger off their own or 'curated gallery' sites with no watermarks, so watermarks aren't usual in the pukka Fine Art market.

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #69 on: October 02, 2020, 10:20 »
+1

*This is a "random selection" of recent print sales, so you can get an idea of what sells: https://fineartamerica.com/recentprintsales.html

Very diverse. I'm surprised to see a number of images in there that would normally be submitted to stock agencies as editorial. Images that feature company names, private businesses and copyrighted products. I thought it would be pretty risky submitting content like that to a POD site. I'm not sure how a company would feel if they see their brand name or whatever displayed on a product like a coffee mug without their consent.

Recent Sales, if you look, many of these look like custom POD orders, where for example, someone takes a photo of a specific pet, or car or something else, personal. Then the photographer posts it on FAA and the customer can choose what they want. This makes it much easier for a photographer to sell many items, on demand, without the complications of production or shipping. They might have been paid for the shoot as well and this is just a delivery system.

Don't assume that people are just uploading images and being discovered through the search.

I don't know why or how FAA ignores the trademark and copyright laws and gets away with it. There are FAA artists who simply copy a photo of someone famous, add some filters and publish it as their own. There are people who take news photos straight from magazines and do the same, and sell them (try to sell them?) as original art.

Looking today, Campbell's Soup Can, Andy Warhol, POD really? A whole collection, made of others art. Another "...is a british professional photographer who specializes in photographing art.   His images sell throughout the world via the major agencies.   He has photographed art in the best art galleries and museums around the world from St Petersburg to Chicago. " This is just one, the practice is common on FAA. Mick Jagger, Frank Sinatra, Janis Joplin and many more. There's some technicality with Marilyn Monroe not protected?

I know that pretty much everyone here, who creates, also respects the laws that protect us and won't steal others works, but there are some people who do nothing but copy, alter, and sell on POD sites.

With that, consider someone like me, making my own images, will sell, just by being found on FAA or Pixels. Not very likely compared to the competition. I still think there's room for a test and I'll see if I can sell some wall art, of my own making, or the products that are on Pixels. Maybe in November?

I'd look forward to anyone here who has found success selling on FAA and Pixels and what kind of things are most likely to create some return? I don't ask for best sellers or specifics, just concepts and what the market actually is?


 

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