Lisa, is right in a sense. Look at all these millions of out of work, bums, ( no disrespect), going into the Arts, creative this and that. When they leave school or their courses, theres no work, no jobs at all for them and what happens? dole que!  and thats the reallity of it. How many times havent one heard, Oh! Im studying to be a high-flying Art-director!  oh yeah, 3 years later, dole-que. Its all BS.

Today, education is a must and not just any education, its no point anymore, studying meaningless subjects like arts, litterature, history and similar stuff, to secure a job future, they have to study one of the bona-fide, academics, that will lead to something, it doesnt have to be, medicine, law, accountancy or enginnering, but something that gives a finished job or position.

The days of sitting around the Montmarte in paris, sipping wine, mingeling with the likes of the Impressionists are LONG GONE!.

I think you are on very dangerous territory if you say that society of today wouldn't need "meaningless subjects like arts, literature, history and similar stuff"....all those are utterly important for too many reasons to list here. They might not be the best choice for young students that want job-security, high salaries etc., but in my opinion they are essential for humanity - for example regarding history - there are many times in history that we wouldn't want repeated right? And the soul needs fed too (arts & literature).

Quote from: Lagereek on August 20, 2012, 00:25

Lisa, is right in a sense. Look at all these millions of out of work, bums, ( no disrespect), going into the Arts, creative this and that. When they leave school or their courses, theres no work, no jobs at all for them and what happens? dole que!  and thats the reallity of it. How many times havent one heard, Oh! Im studying to be a high-flying Art-director!  oh yeah, 3 years later, dole-que. Its all BS.

Today, education is a must and not just any education, its no point anymore, studying meaningless subjects like arts, litterature, history and similar stuff, to secure a job future, they have to study one of the bona-fide, academics, that will lead to something, it doesnt have to be, medicine, law, accountancy or enginnering, but something that gives a finished job or position.

The days of sitting around the Montmarte in paris, sipping wine, mingeling with the likes of the Impressionists are LONG GONE!.

I think you are on very dangerous territory if you say that society of today wouldn't need "meaningless subjects like arts, literature, history and similar stuff"....all those are utterly important for too many reasons to list here. They might not be the best choice for young students that want job-security, high salaries etc., but in my opinion they are essential for humanity - for example regarding history - there are many times in history that we wouldn't want repeated right? And the soul needs fed too (arts & literature).

Yes sure, I know exactly what you mean and agree!  BUT! how many will end up historians, authors, writers, etc? the well known ones. Out of an acting class of 90, wanna bee actors, how many do you really hit the white screen or the theatre stage? 99.99, will join the dole-que.
Few weeks back, there was a documentary on Swedish TV, from the famous creative-college, Beckmans in Stockholm. After 3 years and then exams, out of 300 students, 6, got permanent jobs.

I mean when you look at some of the subjects you can study at todays universities, its down and out scary, first thought that springs to mind is: what . is that? "Global changes? whats does that lead to?  How to translate dreams into reality?  what does that lead to.
The list is endless of totally useless courses and exams, meaningless rubbish really. Majority end up turning burgers or working as parking-lot attendants.

Quote from: Reef on August 20, 2012, 01:12

Quote from: CarlssonInc. Stock Imagery Production on August 20, 2012, 00:47

I think you are on very dangerous territory if you say that society of today wouldn't need "meaningless subjects like arts, literature, history and similar stuff"....all those are utterly important for too many reasons to list here. They might not be the best choice for young students that want job-security, high salaries etc., but in my opinion they are essential for humanity - for example regarding history - there are many times in history that we wouldn't want repeated right? And the soul needs fed too (arts & literature).

Absolutely!!! .....though if they eliminated religion I wouldn't object 

Oh really?  yet the biggest history is about religions, religious wars, goes back 2000 years, has throughout history claimed more lives then anything. Religion is history. Some contradictions here.

Part of history yes, but not as religious education.

Quote from: Lagereek on August 20, 2012, 01:21

Quote from: CarlssonInc. Stock Imagery Production on August 20, 2012, 00:47

Quote from: Lagereek on August 20, 2012, 00:25

Lisa, is right in a sense. Look at all these millions of out of work, bums, ( no disrespect), going into the Arts, creative this and that. When they leave school or their courses, theres no work, no jobs at all for them and what happens? dole que!  and thats the reallity of it. How many times havent one heard, Oh! Im studying to be a high-flying Art-director!  oh yeah, 3 years later, dole-que. Its all BS.

Today, education is a must and not just any education, its no point anymore, studying meaningless subjects like arts, litterature, history and similar stuff, to secure a job future, they have to study one of the bona-fide, academics, that will lead to something, it doesnt have to be, medicine, law, accountancy or enginnering, but something that gives a finished job or position.

The days of sitting around the Montmarte in paris, sipping wine, mingeling with the likes of the Impressionists are LONG GONE!.

I think you are on very dangerous territory if you say that society of today wouldn't need "meaningless subjects like arts, literature, history and similar stuff"....all those are utterly important for too many reasons to list here. They might not be the best choice for young students that want job-security, high salaries etc., but in my opinion they are essential for humanity - for example regarding history - there are many times in history that we wouldn't want repeated right? And the soul needs fed too (arts & literature).

Yes sure, I know exactly what you mean and agree!  BUT! how many will end up historians, authors, writers, etc? the well known ones. Out of an acting class of 90, wanna bee actors, how many do you really hit the white screen or the theatre stage? 99.99, will join the dole-que.
Few weeks back, there was a documentary on Swedish TV, from the famous creative-college, Beckmans in Stockholm. After 3 years and then exams, out of 300 students, 6, got permanent jobs.

I mean when you look at some of the subjects you can study at todays universities, its down and out scary, first thought that springs to mind is: what . is that? "Global changes? whats does that lead to?  How to translate dreams into reality?  what does that lead to.
The list is endless of totally useless courses and exams, meaningless rubbish really. Majority end up turning burgers or working as parking-lot attendants.

"Useless" is subjective in this discussion. Useless in perhaps securing a well paid job. Not everyone is after education that leads to high paying jobs. Nurses, teachers etc. all study for a long time and work hard, but are not paid very well.

Regarding actors, writers, painters etc., yes many fall to the side, but the general public gets to see and enjoy the cream of the crop on the silver screen. Similar to sports really, not everyone will become Zlatan. Not everyone can play it safe and prioritize security, good pay etc. They might experience "a calling". We need aspiring authors, painters, and other cultural workers - that is why a lot of it is "sponsored" by the government through taxes and rightly so. Art pushes boundaries, influences and affects world affairs, religion, politics etc.

Myself is well educated (US college and 4 years of Uni), worked in investment banking for 5 years and decided to give it all up for A LOT LESS pay, A LOT LESS security to do photography and focus more on my family.

Nah, let them do their "useless" courses, enable them to find themselves and at least some of them will end up influencing others whether it is through writing, painting, art or acting.

Myself is a qualified Veterinary surgeon, took me 7 years. I didnt give it up, contrary I used it for my photography ever since the 80s, it has served me well and nowdays I help friends out for free if they have any sick pets. My wife breeds Borzois, russian sighthounds, have 12 of these giant dogs, racing them, plus horses, so Im full up with work. Still, photography has always been my passion and my job.

You must understand, I dont think they are useless it that sense, I love history for example but for getting jobs, no. Even the teachers themselves agree there are far too many obscure classes and subjects at universities nowdays, which in the sense of getting permanent jobs, are meaningless.

Anyway, we are rambling on here?  perhaps we should return to the OP?

Quote from: Lagereek on August 20, 2012, 02:17

Quote from: CarlssonInc. Stock Imagery Production on August 20, 2012, 02:02

Quote from: Lagereek on August 20, 2012, 01:21

Quote from: CarlssonInc. Stock Imagery Production on August 20, 2012, 00:47

Quote from: Lagereek on August 20, 2012, 00:25

Lisa, is right in a sense. Look at all these millions of out of work, bums, ( no disrespect), going into the Arts, creative this and that. When they leave school or their courses, theres no work, no jobs at all for them and what happens? dole que!  and thats the reallity of it. How many times havent one heard, Oh! Im studying to be a high-flying Art-director!  oh yeah, 3 years later, dole-que. Its all BS.

Today, education is a must and not just any education, its no point anymore, studying meaningless subjects like arts, litterature, history and similar stuff, to secure a job future, they have to study one of the bona-fide, academics, that will lead to something, it doesnt have to be, medicine, law, accountancy or enginnering, but something that gives a finished job or position.

The days of sitting around the Montmarte in paris, sipping wine, mingeling with the likes of the Impressionists are LONG GONE!.

I think you are on very dangerous territory if you say that society of today wouldn't need "meaningless subjects like arts, literature, history and similar stuff"....all those are utterly important for too many reasons to list here. They might not be the best choice for young students that want job-security, high salaries etc., but in my opinion they are essential for humanity - for example regarding history - there are many times in history that we wouldn't want repeated right? And the soul needs fed too (arts & literature).

Yes sure, I know exactly what you mean and agree!  BUT! how many will end up historians, authors, writers, etc? the well known ones. Out of an acting class of 90, wanna bee actors, how many do you really hit the white screen or the theatre stage? 99.99, will join the dole-que.
Few weeks back, there was a documentary on Swedish TV, from the famous creative-college, Beckmans in Stockholm. After 3 years and then exams, out of 300 students, 6, got permanent jobs.

I mean when you look at some of the subjects you can study at todays universities, its down and out scary, first thought that springs to mind is: what . is that? "Global changes? whats does that lead to?  How to translate dreams into reality?  what does that lead to.
The list is endless of totally useless courses and exams, meaningless rubbish really. Majority end up turning burgers or working as parking-lot attendants.

"Useless" is subjective in this discussion. Useless in perhaps securing a well paid job. Not everyone is after education that leads to high paying jobs. Nurses, teachers etc. all study for a long time and work hard, but are not paid very well.

Regarding actors, writers, painters etc., yes many fall to the side, but the general public gets to see and enjoy the cream of the crop on the silver screen. Similar to sports really, not everyone will become Zlatan. Not everyone can play it safe and prioritize security, good pay etc. They might experience "a calling". We need aspiring authors, painters, and other cultural workers - that is why a lot of it is "sponsored" by the government through taxes and rightly so. Art pushes boundaries, influences and affects world affairs, religion, politics etc.

Myself is well educated (US college and 4 years of Uni), worked in investment banking for 5 years and decided to give it all up for A LOT LESS pay, A LOT LESS security to do photography and focus more on my family.

Nah, let them do their "useless" courses, enable them to find themselves and at least some of them will end up influencing others whether it is through writing, painting, art or acting.

Myself is a qualified Veterinary surgeon, took me 7 years. I didnt give it up, contrary I used it for my photography ever since the 80s, it has served me well and nowdays I help friends out for free if they have any sick pets. My wife breeds Borzois, russian sighthounds, have 12 of these giant dogs, racing them, plus horses, so Im full up with work. Still, photography has always been my passion and my job.

You must understand, I dont think they are useless it that sense, I love history for example but for getting jobs, no. Even the teachers themselves agree there are far too many obscure classes and subjects at universities nowdays, which in the sense of getting permanent jobs, are meaningless.

Anyway, we are rambling on here?  perhaps we should return to the OP?

Nothing wrong being a rambler

Think I know what you mean now though... not necessarily "useless" but not the best path if one wanted to secure a well paid, secure job or a good return on your investment (education).

Don't understand how you can cope with 12 dogs. Have one, and that is plenty (half Rottweiler, half Labrador) and I refer to him as my hairy son.

I tell you, I wouldnt survive without them, to see them race, the biomechnics, the intensity, the sheer strength!  fantastic! truly magnificent animals. Every time we sell a puppie, I feel sick. Im fortunate, I have plenty of land, all fenced in, so they can play and have fun all day.
Animals, are what keeps us going, really, its our escape.

Quote from: Lagereek on August 20, 2012, 00:25

The days of sitting around the Montmarte in paris, sipping wine, mingeling with the likes of the Impressionists are LONG GONE!.

More's the pity!

Yes! sadly!

Quote from: lisafx on August 19, 2012, 18:44

I am planning to do some RM stuff also.  But bottom line is I have told my husband we may be back to him supporting us in a couple of years and he's okay with that.  He doesn't make a fortune as a teacher, but at least his job is secure and steady, unlike mine.  

no one knows your real life situation beside yourself but that sounds like a joke, looks like you are making fun of us, sorry but thats my feeling (even if you are having drop month after month for over a year or two, its from the other world seeing you aren�t doing still well)

how can you as the 31th best contributor at iStock regarding number of sales needing support from husband?

I can understand.  When your earnings are on a downward slope and you project forward a few years, it isn't encouraging.  It doesn't really matter how much people have sold in the past or if they're still doing relatively well.  The reason I was doing microstock was because I thought my earnings could at least stay fairly stable, as long as I was producing some new images each year.  It's obvious now that was just a wild fantasy.  If a miracle happened and the sites guaranteed commission levels for the next 20 years, it might be worth sticking with microstock.  The reality is, we don't know how low commissions are going but there's a strong likelihood that they'll be much lower in 5 years time.  And there's still no sign of competition weakening.  It get harder and harder to compete with the millions of images being uploaded each year, especially if your passion is in one of the most saturated genres.  How can anyone feel comfortable bringing in the main household income in that situation?

Bla. bla, you will say.
But there are many people who cant read. And speaking of it, how is it with the degree of alitteracy in the USA?

I assume you mean literacy - according to Wikipedia it is 99% (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_literacy_rate).  Functional literacy would be much lower.  However, I don't see how the literacy rate in the US is relevant to anything in this discussion.

I work at a local university - a large, land-grant institution of more than 35,000 students.  I am the faculty advisor for one of the largest student clubs so talk to a lot of students from many majors and keep track of them after graduation.  Those with "worthless" majors on average certainly have a much tougher time getting a job after graduation compared to those in the more marketable majors such as computer science, engineering or business.  However, they usually end up with a job they love and often seem much happier than those who did engineering or something similar because their parents told them it would be marketable.  Many companies pay a lot to hire people with "worthless" majors because they know how to write, speak and/or make public presentations.  If you work hard, can think and write well you can go far regardless of major.  Experience of course also is very important.  The correlation between education and income is very high and undisputed (http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm).  I agree with JPDSK.  Investing in your kids' education is one of the best things you can do - I'm surprised that would be disputed here.

Quote from: ShadySue on August 20, 2012, 02:53

Quote from: Lagereek on August 20, 2012, 00:25

The days of sitting around the Montmarte in paris, sipping wine, mingeling with the likes of the Impressionists are LONG GONE!.

More's the pity!

I'll say.  That's the only life that ever appealed to me...
Let's start a campaign... 'Bring Back Bohemia!'

You write the song, I'll sing it; and we can clean up selling earplugs. 

Quote from: luissantos84 on August 17, 2012, 14:35

if 5k $ doesn't make a person rich I wonder how most of the people can live and what makes them? incredible poor?

5k $ doesn't make you rich at all we are talking about revenue here, 5k should the absolute minimum you are making if you wanna do stock fulltime.

seriously what are you talking about? do you actually know that 1k $ is a ton of money in most asia? its so relative!

... The reality is, we don't know how low commissions are going but there's a strong likelihood that they'll be much lower in 5 years time.  And there's still no sign of competition weakening.  It get harder and harder to compete with the millions of images being uploaded each year, especially if your passion is in one of the most saturated genres.  

Not sure that's true. It seems to me that 3 of the Big 4 have lowered commissions in the last couple of years ... and sales have suffered as a result. From my own data and that of others I'd be astonished if IS and FT are not earning lower profits now than before their commission cuts. The one agency that hasn't reduced commissions, SS, appears to be winning all the customers too. Not sure if there's a cause/effect relationship there; more likely that buyers prefer SS's functionality, simple pricing architecture and excellent search results.

With over 6000 Images in traditional RF (macro)... Through four different channels...
Definitively no increase in sales over the last 6 months. Sorry to say that.

Shutterstock is winning big time on it's subscription model and has always had a very restrictive commission policy. Cleaver business model, but problematic when it succeeds... For us...

I'm wondering that you are wondering, I can see a higher production value to some degree but overall your macro portfolio is the same stuff that you are doing for the micros so you are cannibalizing your own macro sales. I still think you can do good with macro but it has to be different or at least to be different from one owns micro portfolio.

Quote from: grp_photo on August 20, 2012, 13:15

Quote from: luissantos84 on August 17, 2012, 14:35

if 5k $ doesn't make a person rich I wonder how most of the people can live and what makes them? incredible poor?

5k $ doesn't make you rich at all we are talking about revenue here, 5k should the absolute minimum you are making if you wanna do stock fulltime.

seriously what are you talking about? do you actually know that 1k $ is a ton of money in most asia? its so relative!

Very seriously. And we are talking about the western world here. And again it's revenue you must be very young or a very bad businessman.