Quote from: Reef on August 18, 2012, 18:57

Quote from: ShadySue on August 18, 2012, 16:29

Quote

Hard work and passion still mean more to me, but that's me.

Ever thought about applying for a job as a doctor, lawyer, teacher, architect, or many, many other jobs? "Oh, I don't even have any Standard Grades (or your country's equivalent), but don't worry, I'm hardworking and passionate." See where that would get you.
Jobs are so hard fought these days that not having qualifications is just an easy way of whittling down the pile of applications.
We can't all be entrepreneurs, and even the maverick formerly known as Siralan has, now that he's off the street barrow, surrounded himself with a lot of highly qualified top level employees.
You need it all nowadays as a young person: hard work, passion and, almost always, the highest qualifications. By ignoring the importance of qualifications, you are limiting your childrens' choices. It doesn't matter how hard working and passionate you are, if your application forms get skimmed and tossed.

But that doesn't make it right. I often laugh at the job hiring process these days. A bimbo office worker filtering job applications based on qualifications. How ridiculous. When I hire someone I look at what they can do not what a piece of paper says.

If you got 200+ applications would you interview them all?

Quote from: ShadySue on August 18, 2012, 13:34

Quote from: rubyroo on August 18, 2012, 09:56

I do think that those of us outside the U.S. often forget the extra burden that healthcare costs place on Americans and their families.  Because we never have to worry about that, we just don't think about it, and that one factor completely distorts our idea of how wealthy US citizens really are.

That, plus there must have been either a huge sink in earnings there or we zoomed up without really noticing.
I read an article in Times Ed several years ago (c10?) which showed that on average US teachers were being paid 1/3 more than we were, and their t&c were better (but not as good as the t&c in Germany!). Plus the cost of living was then so much lower. By the time I left, it was about even or maybe a bit lower in the US, and I'm not sure the cost of living differential was as great either. It used to be that goods in shops, eg food and clothes was $1 for �1, when a dollar was worth about 66p, and petrol was even less.

Well in England, Scotland and Ireland, we are very spoilt, National-health care, you know. Now if you take Sweden for example,  one of the most heavily taxed countries in the world, experts in technology, IT, engineering, you name it. Here, old people have no value, they die, because the elder-care is totally non existant, 2 years, etc, for a hip replacement!  and this is in one of the richest countries in the world with just a 9 million population, where big-brother is watching you around the clock.  There is no excuse.
Sweden escaped two world wars but act as if they went through three world wars. They should be ashamed.

Quote from: Lagereek on August 19, 2012, 01:20

Quote from: Reef on August 17, 2012, 19:28

Quote from: lisafx on August 17, 2012, 18:53

Quote from: Elenathewise on August 17, 2012, 18:37

I wonder where are you from? I came to Canada from Russia in 1993 with nothing but a backpack with a spare pair of jeans and a couple of t-shirts. The jeans was my most expensive possession back then. Seriously. So I am actually from that "vast majority of the world" you're talking about. The most valuable "possession" was my education though, which allowed me to succeed in life. Even if I had to live in slums I'd still spend money on my kids education, that's the most important thing parents can give. I know what it's like to be dirt poor and I don't mind it, but I also know that having some money for decent fairly comfortable living is not being "rich" - it's being normal. With money I make on microstock I don't have excesses - I drive a 10 year old car and live in a condo. You can not call that "rich" by any standards.

Really fantastic post!  Take a heart. 

Totally agree about education.  My husband and I are having to cut back a lot to put our daughter through a top college.  It will be worth it.   We have never bought a new car in our lives, and live in a 1200 sq. foot house in a nice, but working class neighborhood. 

A couple of years back we thought microstock would finance a move to a more upscale neighborhood, but if we had done that, imagine the mess we would find ourselves in today!  We will continue with our relatively modest lifestyle regardless of where microstock is in the next few years. 

To be honest, living in the good ole US of A any extra money we have gotten has gone to medical bills and high insurance premiums.  I've had three surgeries in the last three years.   Living in the only Industrialized Western nation that doesn't provide medical care to its population gets REALLY expensive. 

With regards to your children, I think I'm of the other opinion. That's not to say I do not help my children. But I would not sacrifice my life style to ensure they got the best education available. On the contrary, I would prefer they earned their way through life which will teach them respect for money, property and such. That's more important than how well educated you are or how rich you are.

Yes these are old adages, used to think the same actually. Today however Im inclined to agree with Sue and Lisa, unless born rich, education is the one and ONLY thing that counts and very often especially in richer countries, thats not even enough to get a job. I know its boring but papers and qualifications, grades, etc, is the only thing that matters nowdays. This ofcourse is the stupidity of modern societies, they will value a piece of paper more then experience. Thats the way its become and experience is ofcourse nothing but the name we give our mistakes. So whats right.

Sure education is important, although I feel that 4 years of university, studies abroad counted for nothing compared to real life work experience. In my opinion attitude (i.e. positive, willingness to work hard etc.) and connections are the 2 most important factors for success.

Quote from: Lagereek

Sure education is important, although I feel that 4 years of university, studies abroad counted for nothing compared to real life work experience. In my opinion attitude (i.e. positive, willingness to work hard etc.) and connections are the 2 most important factors for success.

I have a 7 year old son and I'm pretty sure by the time he grows up whatever we now think of as making a carrier, getting education etc. will completely change.
The good news is that access for education will be much better. Just look at all the new ideas poping up like Udacity. That is mainly good for people from developing nations and a bit less so for a small group of rich people living in western societies as the monopoly for access to good education ends.

The bad news is that the marketplace will change drastically. Lots of jobs in the next 20 years will be automated. Automated warehouses, cashiers etc. these are the things happening now and it's not only simple jobs, not only your "wall-mart greeters". After IBM build their supercomputer Watson (the one that won the Jeopardy game) they tested it in various other ways, for example with analyzing medical data, or finding legal cases relevant to a given subject. It outperformed most humans and that was 2010. That means that for many tasks we will have a machine doing 80-90% of the job and a few specialists taking on the more unusual cases and occasionally checking what the machines are doing . On one hand it'll mean for example better health care (as more basic services will get cheaper), but less work for mediocre specialists. The times where having a diploma meant you'll get a good paying job are over. No. You'll have to be exceptional to get a good job.

Obviously just like no one ever heard of a php-developer, or social media marketing specialist 20 years ago, just as well we can expect lots of new markets and jobs arise, but I don't think that all 7 billion people will be blogging about fashion tips, or selling their 3D printed hummus cupcakes via eBay. The age of the 'exceptionalists' is upon us and by definition everyone can't be exceptional.
We better teach our kids to be problem solvers, think creatively, learn to adapt to new challenges. Sending them to a university with a $100k a year tuition won't do the trick.

Quote from: Lagereek on August 19, 2012, 05:45

Yes I dont believe in horribly expensive educations either. Reminds me of a story in the London financial city, during the yuppie era, large commercial bankers were after youg dealers, they didnt go to Harrow or Eaton, they went down the worst areas in London and collected youg 22-23 year olds, real street-kids, small villains, dressed them up, this and that, gave them a free course in broking, dealing.
Many years later, the BBC or something did a documentary and well, the majority of these kids, no education what so ever exept guts and balls, they had really made it, a few were multi millionaries, married with kids and everything, they dared to do and deal, take chances, way above an Etonian, etc. This is a true story, beginning of the 90s

Reminds me of 'Trading places' when Eddie Murphy replaces Dan Aykroyd for a dollar bet  

Quote from: Lagereek on August 19, 2012, 05:45

Many years later, the BBC or something did a documentary and well, the majority of these kids, no education what so ever exept guts and balls, they had really made it, a few were multi millionaries, married with kids and everything, they dared to do and deal, take chances, way above an Etonian, etc. This is a true story, beginning of the 90s

20 years ago. Times have moved on.
20 years ago, a young, talented photographer hawked his/her physical portfolio around the agencies or galleries and got work that way, sometimes on the spot. Nowadays, the agency or gallery would have to do a big web search to make sure they hadn't downloaded stock photographs.
Yes, in some areas of life, especially entrepreneurship, education isn't the most important thing - though as I said above, even the most entrepreneurial spirits will have to use the services of well-educated lawyers, accountants, etc etc. We're not all entrepreneurs, and we should be encouraging young people in whatever area they want to go into, not straightjacketing them into one particular area.
Disclaimer: I don't have kids, but I taught for over 30 years. I also don't buy fully into the "follow your dreams" fairy tale: I saw too many pupils suckered into that fallacy. I could give loads of examples, but I'll stick to one. We had a student teacher in our school, and a few years later, there was a whole article in a magazine about her, as she'd opened an independent 'sex shop' of the Ann Summers type. How she had left teaching and how she loved her new job, how well it was doing blah de blah. Taik o' the steamie. Sure enough, about five years later, she was back with us doing supply teaching - she had never done business management and really had no idea about a lot of the 'unobvious' expenses, and hadn't factored them in ... and now owed a lot of money.
That's just one example, but I see far too many businesses start and fail around here (photographers more than any, as it happens) to believe the dream/hype. Often it's not a lack of hard work and passion, just a lack of basic marketing knowledge, i.e. knowing where there is a market for their product, or what price the local market will pay (seldom enough to sustain a business, it seems).
That said, there are no 'steady' professions these days. When I left school, there were certain guaranteed 'jobs for life': teaching, banks, law, medicine, librarianship were generally touted to girls in particular as being 'safe' jobs. Not so nowadays. So much so that while young people used to be discouraged from e.g. acting, it's right in there with anything else nowadays. Sometimes I feel that the only safe job, (other than of course undertaker and tax officer), is hairdresser. Honestly - I've never seen a halfway-decent hairdresser who didn't have more work than they could cope with. Come recession, war, plague, famine - many people will always want a hairdresser.

Having lost 1/3 of my income this year despite putting in the same amount of work, No I am not feeling the least bit rich.  On top of that, my shoots this year have failed to cover expenses.  

Quote from: lisafx on August 17, 2012, 15:24

Having lost 1/3 of my income this year despite putting in the same amount of work, No I am not feeling the least bit rich.  On top of that, my shoots this year have failed to cover expenses.  

.I wonder what's the plan of those top lifestyle togs, sjlocke as well etc, many are saying they're down on year to year basis. Are they/you going to switch for something else, for example food photography etc?

I wouldn't switch to food photography myself, since I know how hard it is to produce great food shots, it's science really. So much work, since I don't know the basics, well I do know the very basics, but nothing beyond that. Simple isolations etc won't cut, lighting has to be perfect, highlighting just the right things, emphasizing some, you have to arrange everything carefully. If I'd switch, I'd try to find a niche in sports. But how many photos can you do on a single niched sport anyway...If I'd change lifestyle for some other type of photography, people would have to be involved, I just love shooting people, makes it interesting to me, the shoot itself is alive. More difficult, for sure, not to mention the organization, locations, MRs, props, make up, hair, this and that...But that's what I love to shoot. I'd probably rather stop shooting altogether than not shoot people anymore. And I have tried almost every other type of photography. Well travel photography seems interesting, but I don't travel all that much, so that's out of the question.

Quote from: stan on August 19, 2012, 15:57

.I wonder what's the plan of those top lifestyle togs, sjlocke as well etc, many are saying they're down on year to year basis. Are they/you going to switch for something else, for example food photography etc?

Food
iStock: 1,038,091
SS: 2,144,452
Alamy: 1,784,763
Not much scope there unless you can find some niche foods that nevertheless have a market and somehow keep others off your niche. Best to find out what the Next Big Thing in food is and photograph that.
Hey, I've seen a niche. If you buy in a generic food item, and photograph it, is that a copyright breach? (E.g. but this isn't it, a scone)

I am planning to do some RM stuff also.  But bottom line is I have told my husband we may be back to him supporting us in a couple of years and he's okay with that.  He doesn't make a fortune as a teacher, but at least his job is secure and steady, unlike mine. 

LOL!  I am getting the biggest kick out of reading the posts here from people with young children who seem to think that being hard working, creative thinkers, and exceptional are in some way mutually exclusive to getting a good education.  

Guess what - you raise your kids to be all of those things AND have a quality higher education if you want them to succeed.  

What planet do you people live on that you think kids that get in to top colleges are some sort of lazy uncreative slouches??  You guys are in for a really rude awakening when your kids grow up.   Better be saving for college NOW.