MicrostockGroup
Microstock Photography Forum - General => General Stock Discussion => Topic started by: Randy McKown on January 28, 2009, 22:53
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I get told a lot by photographers that the reason they dont become more active in microstock is because they do not have access to a studio or that they dont have tons of people they can have model for them. They basically think all the real money is made from business people and other portrait type shots. While I do have a great deal of people in my portfolio that's not where all my money comes from so I thought I would write a blog about how to make sales shooting things most people never think about shooting and require very little time. I think it's a good read for anyone who wants to boost their microstock income. Here's the link for anyone interested.
Get Paid Shooting Nothing (http://xposurepro.com/2009/01/get-paid-shooting-nothing/)
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link doesn't work
try this
http://xposurepro.com/2009/01/get-paid-shooting-nothing/
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If you've found a niche, or at least a successful topic to shoot, like dirt, please, please tell me, what the sense is, in writing an article so that hundreds or thousands of others can exploit your knowledge and take away your sales. I mean, do you really get enough in referrals from the links at the bottom to make this make sense? What is your concern with "a lot of photographers" who are not "more active in microstock"? Shouldn't that make you happy they aren't competing with you?
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Hi xposurepro,
Thanks for the tip good advice. Makes you think about things you might take for granted as a photographer. Especially items that are specific to your region might be a good addition. Like we don't have Gators in Seattle but I bet there in some Micro stock shooters back swamps and he/she might not think of shooting them because they have always been a part o their life.
Best,
AVAVA
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If you've found a niche, or at least a successful topic to shoot, like dirt, please, please tell me, what the sense is, in writing an article so that hundreds or thousands of others can exploit your knowledge and take away your sales. I mean, do you really get enough in referrals from the links at the bottom to make this make sense? What is your concern with "a lot of photographers" who are not "more active in microstock"? Shouldn't that make you happy they aren't competing with you?
I agree. You must be rather desperate for either:
a) To get more competition and lower your income
or
b) Publicity
I must admit I'm getting tired of reading about photographers trying to get more competition in a more than saturated marketplace, and on the other side other photographers (and sometimes the same ones), complaining about the falling sales. Sorry for the rant, but I can't see a single reason why anyone should destroy his or her own niche.
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I think your blog will appeal to anyone that hasn't tried microstock before.
Although money can be made shooting inane subjects I think that boat has sailed except for for odd rare exception, having read your blog it wasn't the niche I was expecting, here's a tip - after you've shot dirt why not lay on it and shoot skies, there's a fortune to be made!
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Tnx for the tip. I will copy every image you have. I will copy you so good, your sales will drop to almost 0! ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Seriously, I think that you are shooting yourself and everyone else in the foot by pumping up the you can make money in micro and here's my secret how stuff.. Sharing is one thing, trying to advertise your refferals and create more competition to make .03 is one of the reasons this market has become so saturated in the first place.. Why don't you advertise this (the truth) if you work your but off for a couple of years you might make a slight dent in your financial status.. I am kinda tired of looking at these you can make good money just by taking photos in your spare time bits, sign up here to make big bucks.. Thanks for the tips!!
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I agree. You must be rather desperate for either:
a) To get more competition and lower your income
or
b) Publicity
or
c) To get referral money
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I think this blog post is not shooting anyone on the foot, and it is about sharing. If I'm not mistaken, that what we are on this forum for, right ? Or are you guys giving false info to drive new comers like me in the wrong direction ? Hope not...
If he had given the 20 main specific subject matters that make his portfolio unique, then maybe it would be shooting himself on the foot. But this is not the case. What I get from the post is the general message that you don't need a big infrastructure and world class models to be productive, keep your eye open, you might have gems around you, and don't underestimate what you could consider as commodities. For example, I personnally got some great textures on public domain websites for some projects, so I considered textures as a pure commodity and didn't think about uploading them on stock websites.
This is a general approach to share, a starting point. Thank you so much for this.
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I think this blog post is not shooting anyone on the foot, and it is about sharing. If I'm not mistaken, that what we are on this forum for, right ? Or are you guys giving false info to drive new comers like me in the wrong direction ? Hope not...
If he had given the 20 main specific subject matters that make his portfolio unique, then maybe it would be shooting himself on the foot. But this is not the case. What I get from the post is the general message that you don't need a big infrastructure and world class models to be productive, keep your eye open, you might have gems around you, and don't underestimate what you could consider as commodities. For example, I personnally got some great textures on public domain websites for some projects, so I considered textures as a pure commodity and didn't think about uploading them on stock websites.
This is a general approach to share, a starting point. Thank you so much for this.
I agree with totony xposurepro is being helpful and informative I have been taking pictures of senseless objects and making money at it for years. ;D
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I think this blog post is not shooting anyone on the foot, and it is about sharing. If I'm not mistaken, that what we are on this forum for, right ? Or are you guys giving false info to drive new comers like me in the wrong direction ? Hope not...
This forum is about sharing, no doubt about that. The problem with the blog in question and similar blogs, is that they make microstock seem like a great opportunity and a possible goldmine to newcomers who are given the idea that shooting dirt or whatever is something new, diluting whatever is in this business for all.
If there are people out there who have enough ideas themselves to start shooting microstock and make some money out of it, it's fine with me. But handing out our own little niches to whoever wants to listen, is like giving away tomorrow's dinner to someone who don't have the knowledge about how to open the box, and will end up throwing the meal in the garbage. Most of the newcomers probably never even reach a payout, which is good for who? The agencies, but not for any of us or the newcomers.
Again: lets welcome those with their own ideas, and encourage them to work hard, but don't invite the crowds in.
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Wow not the response I expected .. I didn't realize there was such a fear of competition. Which when you think about it is really silly. For example, when you look at the size of my portfolio as a part of the entire microstock industry it is a tiny tiny tiny fraction of a fraction of a percent. Yet, over the years it has paid for my house, my studio and the equipment in it. Not to mention we are talking about photographing patterns and textures, a fundamental form of composition. To be afraid of creating competition in this area is just complete paranoia. If I were to actually claim that as "my niche" that would also be incredibly egotistical. I'm mean come on, should I discourage photographers from taking a picture of bark on a tree because that's "my niche"?
Trust me there is plenty of room for competition.
totony --- now he actually read the post and obviously thought about it because he picked right up on the lesson that was being expressed. He also made a really good point ... this forum is about sharing knowledge. He said he never thought about selling textures and I'm glad I was able to point out something he was missing on. I hope now that he's aware of it he sells a buttload of them.
AVAVA -- I'd just like to compliment you on your portfolio. I've personally approved a lot of your images and they are always a pleasure to look at. After seeing so many of your images at 100% it's obvious why you didn't join in on the anti-sharing of knowledge. You definitely don't have to worry about competition. :) .. oh by the way Im an administrator for one of the big 6
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Get ready reviewers here comes your latest wave of brick walls.
Especially with textures/backgrounds etc I think the amount you can make is directly related placement in the search (best match or whatever its called at each agency) You can see brick walls with 700-900 DL's and hundreds with none. No real difference between them. So if you don't come up on the first page I don't like your chances :)
There can't be too much easy money left in textures but I'd love to be wrong. (uploading dirt, brickwalls,coloured pencils, concrete, sand, skies as I type) :)
I think there are two areas for sharing
1) General techniques,software,lighting,photo reviewing,rejection reasons and alike that most people are keen to share, probably learnt some of their technique from someone else.
2) Financial details, business plans, detailed search info into niche areas etc. Some are keen to share, some treat it like asking someone you just met the age and weight.
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Wow not the response I expected .. I didn't realize there was such a fear of competition. Which when you think about it is really silly. For example, when you look at the size of my portfolio as a part of the entire microstock industry it is a tiny tiny tiny fraction of a fraction of a percent. Yet, over the years it has paid for my house, my studio and the equipment in it. Not to mention we are talking about photographing patterns and textures, a fundamental form of composition. To be afraid of creating competition in this area is just complete paranoia. If I were to actually claim that as "my niche" that would also be incredibly egotistical. I'm mean come on, should I discourage photographers from taking a picture of bark on a tree because that's "my niche"?
Trust me there is plenty of room for competition.
totony --- now he actually read the post and obviously thought about it because he picked right up on the lesson that was being expressed. He also made a really good point ... this forum is about sharing knowledge. He said he never thought about selling textures and I'm glad I was able to point out something he was missing on. I hope now that he's aware of it he sells a buttload of them.
AVAVA -- I'd just like to compliment you on your portfolio. I've personally approved a lot of your images and they are always a pleasure to look at. After seeing so many of your images at 100% it's obvious why you didn't join in on the anti-sharing of knowledge. You definitely don't have to worry about competition. :) .. oh by the way Im an administrator for one of the big 6
You're an adminisitrator and you actively recruit submitters to multiple other sites?
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Wow not the response I expected .. I didn't realize there was such a fear of competition. Which when you think about it is really silly. For example, when you look at the size of my portfolio as a part of the entire microstock industry it is a tiny tiny tiny fraction of a fraction of a percent.
Now that you're out recruiting new competitors for your images of "nothing", it will get even tinier. Congrats!
He said he never thought about selling textures and I'm glad I was able to point out something he was missing on.
... and tinier ...
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Selling mundane images is a lottery. Although you might sometimes get lucky, sales depend solely upon search engine placement, and the only way to ensure you'll make any money at it is to specialize in it by creating an overabundance so that you dominate the marketplace for such images. You didn't mention these three critical points in your article, xposurepro. Without this last caveat, your advice borders on the trivial: Yes, I can go out and shoot some pictures of bark, or dirt, or clouds, but it isn't realistic to expect it to amount to much unless a significant amount of time and effort is invested.
As far as the sharing thing goes, I don't see sharing this kind of entry-level information as a threat to anyone. If, on the otherhand, xposurepro specialized in making background and texture images, he'd be foolish for publicizing what he did and how he went about doing it. That would be shooting himself in the foot.
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No, it's not a threat to anyone here except himself, by encouraging others to dilute his sales base. There's only so many buyers for images of dirt (or whatever it doesn't take a lot of skill to shoot).
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Randy,
So you're pimping your website, fair enough, lots of people do. And on your website, you're pimping your referral links. That's rather normal too. Your website is even well above average, and there's lots of useful stuff on it. What I don't get is that you try to hide your marketing under a "need" for getting more competition.
We have lots of competition already, people here have sinking dl's per uploaded image, and more photographers are entering the market every day. Contributors who are afraid of competition don't have a future in this business, but since this is just that, a business, it looks a bit strange, at least to me, to invite more, and to recommend newcomers to do more of the same stuff that has been done a zillion times already.
Unless of course, you make more money from your website and your referrals than from your microstock images. Then it's at least understandable...
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You're an administrator and you actively recruit submitters to multiple other sites? Is that statement a threat? We definitely don't have to worry about competition?
LOL a threat .. no that part was just me complimenting on AVAVA's portfolio and I wanted to make a point that it was not just based on me looking at a persons thumbnails .. a good looking thumbnail means absolutely nothing .. AVAVA's work is excellent when viewed at 100% and that is what matters. We admins look at tons of photos every day where the people obviously do not look at it from 100% .. or 50% .. sometimes you can look at submissions at 15% and immediately tell that it is overflowing with noise or out of focus. So when we evaluate somebody like AVAVA it literally makes our day.
Anyway, yes I recruit and submit to multiple agencies. My agency is awesome and does not require me to be exclusive. I've worked for another agency in the Big 6 and they did require it .. which sucked and that's why I left them.
Selling mundane images is a lottery. Sales depend solely upon search engine placement, and the only way to ensure you'll make any sort of money at it is to specialize in them. You didn't mention these three critical points in your article, xposurepro.
I personally don't recommend anyone specialize in just one area. I have found over the years that by spreading myself out into multiple categories works better. The key is to produce top quality images .. even when shooting a mundane subject. If you limit yourself to specific categories you are limited to buyers who shop primarily in those categories. This would be the equivalent of saying Sony should specialize in stereos .. by also offering the buyer computers, TVs, hardware, DVD players, video games and so on they are exposed to a much broader consumer group. This tactic has worked great for me.
We have lots of competition already, people here have sinking dl's per uploaded image, and more photographers are entering the market every day. Contributors who are afraid of competition don't have a future in this business, but since this is just that, a business, it looks a bit strange, at least to me, to invite more, and to recommend newcomers to do more of the same stuff that has been done a zillion times already.
I haven't had a problem with sales decreasing. I have images that have been online since 2004 that still sell. Actually my sales have increased throughout the year even without uploading constantly. However I will point out that while during certain spikes where sales nearly doubled profits did not match the increase. This was due to spikes in buyer subscriptions. However, even with the spikes in subscriptions my income did continue to rise.
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IF this would be a world where money wasn't important and images could be downloaded for free ... this wouldn't be a problem at all.
Now, many are in for the money (although it didn't start that way) and because of that they don't like ANY competition. They would love the see them being the only contributor to micro's so THEY could make money, Money, MONEY, ...
do you know have I call this ... ... G R E E D ... ... it's one of the seven deadly sins (if I recall the movie seven well :o) )
No seriously. Money just kills it all. I'm happy some do share idea's / knowledge and so. If this wasn't the case I wouldn't be the photographers I am today.
just my 2 cts
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Uh oh, this thread looks like it's beginning to turn into a shooting match. (this is not aimed at you, perrush, or anyone else in particular)
It might be best if everyone backed off and away.
You've got a good amount of experience in this industry, xposurepro, and I think you'd be an asset on this forum.
I hope this experience from one of your first postings doesn't sour you too much on this place.
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Uh oh, this thread looks like it's turning into a shooting match. (this is not aimed at you, perrush, or anyone else in particular)
you don't have to take everything that serious Sharply ;) I don't either ;D
I wondered what will happen if one of the big guys (or even smaller ones) who make their complete portfolio for free. Because many microshots are so similar, I think this could have a big impact of sales across all sites. I think this will happen one day ::)
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Uh oh, this thread looks like it's beginning to turn into a shooting match. (this is not aimed at you, perrush, or anyone else in particular)
It might be best if everyone backed off and away.
You've got a good amount of experience in this industry, xposurepro, and I think you'd be an asset on this forum.
I hope this experience from one of your first postings doesn't sour you too much on this place.
Not at all, I don't get sour :) I've been around long enough to know there are always going to be shooting matches. I'm just glad everyone here is into microstock ... the anti-micro matches are so annoying and always seem to be started by people who weren't working professionally pre-dating micro. By the way, are you the sharply_done who submits a lot of airplane shots? If so, I know your work by name as well. You also have great images. ;D
I wondered what will happen if one of the big guys (or even smaller ones) who make their complete portfolio for free. Because many microshots are so similar, I think this could have a big impact of sales across all sites. I think this will happen one day ::)
Are you referring to the big guys as in a photographer or an agency? If you mean a photographer then the big guys aren't as big as you would think. When placed into the entire equation their portfolios are a fraction of a fraction ... of a fraction of a percent on a global scale. If you mean an agency . well I can't see an agency giving up their millions. The movie seven was on tv a couple days ago by the way .. awesome movie. :)
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xposure : I don't mean an agancy, I even don't mean a Yuri or Lisa. I think if even smaller photographers with between 1000 and 5000 images make their portfolios public that this could have an influence on sales because many good selling micro images are so generic. $1 is cheap, $0 is cheaper and can't be beaten.
Maybe it's just my silly brain which is turning sour ... maybe not
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By the way, are you the sharply_done who submits a lot of airplane shots?
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Yep, that's me, hence my initial post in this thread.
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just my 2 cts
Then it's really ALL about money ;)
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You might want to think twice about submitting to Fotolia or Dreamstime, with this kind of imagery. I submitted a shot of battered barn wood to the big 8 sites. All accepted, except Fotolia and Dreamstime, with the explanation that they had enough of this kind of material. I don't mean to be negative, but watch out for this kind of rejection.
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You might want to think twice about submitting to Fotolia or Dreamstime, with this kind of imagery. I submitted a shot of battered barn wood to the big 8 sites. All accepted, except Fotolia and Dreamstime, with the explanation that they had enough of this kind of material. I don't mean to be negative, but watch out for this kind of rejection.
yes, it's true. recently I had quite a bit of rejections like this. but it's fine for me, DT knows not to oversaturate the site with too many of the same old same old stuff. it won't do us any good to have too many images that don't sell either. i would rather have a small portfolio with more sales than a large port with no sales. DT is reasonable, and they give me the sales, so i will go with their rejections, if any.
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and they give me the sales.
Total sales: 25
8) don't you think you're overreacting ;D
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I had my days when I shot dirt, sky, brick wall, water and so on and sold a few. It's true that the sales went down after a while, maybe due to competition or global economy or who knows what. However, there will always be next Yuri, Andre, Lise and Ron Capple in the horizon, regardless if the OP posted his article or not. That is the fact of life.
Even though we sell our work through micro agencies, let's not become so micro minded that we are shamelessly self-serving. It surprises me that some people point finger at the people who wish to profit from a web blog, and call that greed, do you realize that the protectionist approach is just as greed? We must recognize that we each need to make a living but we must allow other people make a living too.
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Listen it's not about you or anyone sharing informatio.. That is not the point anyone has been trying to make here.. The problem I see and I think others are the micro pimping blogs for refferals.. I like a lot of your other posts on your site and I think it's great you have a site with info.. Where I think people start seeing issues are when people start going out and saying things like.. here is how you can make a bunch of money with your images by just snapshoting away or make money with your holiday pics or your images collecting dust.. Look, like Perrush said if we weren't trying to make money than that wouldn't be an issue.. But than again you only are writing about it cause you can make money.. As we all see our sale dwindling daily this type of pimping only for most is seen as more false hype on the micro train and more snapshot hopefulls wanting a piece of the pie..
My 2 cents.
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Even though we sell our work through micro agencies, let's not become so micro minded that we are shamelessly self-serving. It surprises me that some people point finger at the people who wish to profit from a web blog, and call that greed, do you realize that the protectionist approach is just as greed? We must recognize that we each need to make a living but we must allow other people make a living too.
Missing the point I think.. Sharing making money off of your blog etc. is great, I'm all for it.. But I and I think others are not that keen on the advertising of make money in micro doing nothing or your snapshots or images collecting dust.. It's not micro minded it's reality that this is not really the whole truth.. People may make a few bucks here or there doing snapshots, but we all know micro does not pay unless you really work hard at it.. And all these false hopefulls add to the oversaturation that takes food off of our tables.. I guess if you don't shoot micro seriously and are not in it for the money, than it doesn't matter to you.. But for the people that work at this like a job, it does matter because it takes food from their families.. Like I said in my last post, I like a lot of his other posts, just not big on the micro pimping the do "nothing" and making money stuff.. Sorry if my opinion offends anyone, that's just how I feel..
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This is an interesting thread. I haven't posted here before but I've really enjoyed reading a lot of interesting thoughts and opinions here. I'm surprised at the feedback he's getting from this encouraging blog post. There are a whole heck of a lot of misconceptions about microstock all over the place right now. My opinion is that the more information out there the better.
As for sharing information, tips, tricks and advice...who here or anywhere in the photography industry wouldn't be where they are today without picking up some advice from others. Who here reads the blogs from Chase Jarvis? Joe McNally? How about Strobist? These guys all offer tons of tips, advice and information without getting much in return. To me, that's what makes photography such a unique way to make a living...the sense of community you find all over the world.
Mat
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You gotta start somewhere... I have less sales on DT.
I guess every high seller had 25 sales, at one point ;)
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and they give me the sales.
Total sales: 25
8) don't you think you're overreacting ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D
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You gotta start somewhere... I have less sales on DT.
I guess every high seller had 25 sales, at one point ;)
thanks antonio, for the little time i put into my port, 25 is fine. i only reached 100 images last month simply because i had more days off.
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You gotta start somewhere... I have less sales on DT.
I guess every high seller had 25 sales, at one point ;)
True enough.
But if you find that it's taking you a long time, say two months, to reach that level, you should be re-evaluating what it is you are doing and how you are doing it.
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Perrush, we each have our own level of satisfaction. if tan is happy with 25, he will be happier when it reaches 250, and 2500 even happier. With that attitude, how can it not work for him?
Like totony said, "every high seller had 25 , at one point" 8)
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As for sharing information, tips, tricks and advice...who here or anywhere in the photography industry wouldn't be where they are today without picking up some advice from others.
Still missing the point.. It's not the sharing, it's the pimping, sign up here to make money.. Not the sharing techniques info etc. that stuff is great.. That is what we do here on MSG and were not having this argument with Leaf.. "shoot nothing and make money" SIGN UP HERE.. I think this argument is split between people that do this as a hobby or not seriously and the people who actuall count on stock as at least part of their income.. Not too many pizza places out pimping opening a pizza chain and BTW here's one of our best recipes.. Unless their getting a franchise fee.. Wonder why?
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This is an interesting thread. I haven't posted here before but I've really enjoyed reading a lot of interesting thoughts and opinions here. I'm surprised at the feedback he's getting from this encouraging blog post. There are a whole heck of a lot of misconceptions about microstock all over the place right now. My opinion is that the more information out there the better.
As for sharing information, tips, tricks and advice...who here or anywhere in the photography industry wouldn't be where they are today without picking up some advice from others. Who here reads the blogs from Chase Jarvis? Joe McNally? How about Strobist? These guys all offer tons of tips, advice and information without getting much in return. To me, that's what makes photography such a unique way to make a living...the sense of community you find all over the world.
Mat
Mat:
It seems there are a few people here who prefer criticizing to creating. I really enjoyed reading about all the different microstock agencies when I first came here. I was astounded by the plethora of information. There are some really good photographers in this group. Most of them are very helpful. You would think they would encourage the creation and sharing of ideas ... be they old ideas or a repeat of things THEY have already posted and forgotten. There's always a new face here. I hope this site will continue to be a source for creators. Lord knows, criticism is easy to find.
Warren
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Still missing the point.. It's not the sharing, it's the pimping, sign up here to make money.. Not the sharing techniques info etc. that stuff is great..
Well, there seem to be a lot of people concerned about making money here. Monthly threads on performance, daily threads on holiday sales, stats surveys, constant, constant, constant. Yet, someone suggests a good way to not dilute your sales is to not post "training" and "sign up" articles, and suddenly, you're greedy Scrooge McDuck. Like it or not, everyone is a competitor for the royalties out there, and by actively running about trying to show others how easy it is to make money, all you are doing is growing the supply pot.
Non-dilute-the-pot-threads - "Is today a holiday somewhere?" "How do I get a tax form from SS?" "Is there an easier way to upload model releases?" "Why won't my 580ex trigger?"
Grow the Buyer Base articles - "The best way to search on XYZ site" "How do you find images with clipping paths?" "Do I need an Extended License?"
Grow your competition threads/articles - "Make money by shooting XYZ!" "Even a monkey can make money in microstock!" "The best time of year to upload XYZ!"
See, you can share and chat all you want on topics people are interested in, while avoiding the last category above, and it's still a helpful discussion forum.
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You gotta start somewhere... I have less sales on DT.
I guess every high seller had 25 sales, at one point ;)
True enough.
But if you find that it's taking you a long time, say two months, to reach that level, you should be re-evaluating what it is you are doing and how you are doing it.
Point taken, sharply_done. Definitely doing this evaluation come February.
(You will see a different portfolio).
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Instead of writing articles about attracting more photographers, why not write about attracting more buyers.. You still get refferals there too..
I keep reading the replies, and it seems people are just so focused on the "why can't we share info" . "were here to share so why criticize people for sharing"?
You are still soo off target.. This is the 3rd and last time I will write this AGAIN..
It is not about sharing.. We all love Leaf, he has a website for sharing.. I love the article exposurepro wrote about how to take photos of lightning.. I LOVE SHARING.. AVAVA shares a lot and I really love reading and interacting with his posts.. I know that some people don't appreciate his sharing, but I am not one of them.. The point is, for me I LOVE SHARING TOO.. LAST TIME, I DO NOT appreciate people writing about how easy it is to make money in micro and here are my secrets on how and here is were you sign up and welcome to the piece of the pie.. TELL ALL YOUR FRIENDS about the great money, and get me some refferals.. IT IS NOT ABOUT SHARING, we all share here on MSG about how to better light subjects on how to better expose and what is shady about a websites admins etc. etc.. But every new person that signs up is that much less of the pie.. Unless you are equally out drumming up buyers you are helping to take food and medicine and other stuff from my son.. So SHARE AWAY and I will be there chiming in.. But do not expect me to cheerfully jump up and down that you are pumping in more micro wannabe's for a few cents of refferals.. Sorry not gonna happen..
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You gotta start somewhere... I have less sales on DT.
I guess every high seller had 25 sales, at one point ;)
of course, but read the whole quote :
recently I had quite a bit of rejections like this. but it's fine for me, DT knows not to oversaturate the site with too many of the same old same old stuff. it won't do us any good to have too many images that don't sell either. i would rather have a small portfolio with more sales than a large port with no sales. DT is reasonable, and they give me the sales, so i will go with their rejections, if any.
he's saying that he accept the rejections because in that way the database is under control so he can get some sales from a small portfolio ...
to be honest, I don't think you can tell that from 25 sales in 8 months.
But I wasn't really pointing the finger to him, that why the ' :D ' was in the post. Everyone was small once, I'm even small today ;D
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I was writing something but erased it. This post just reminded me of why I come here less and less.
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Perrush , not to worry, no offense taken. ;)
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so if you're one of those auto-workers laid off due to this recession, you blame all the new graduates for stealing your job too, right? ;)
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Instead of writing articles about attracting more photographers, why not write about attracting more buyers.. You still get refferals there too..
I think you'll find 'Scrooge McDuck' has done just that.
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O boy, here we go again. stealing my rice bowl... vs share and share alike
I was writing something but erased it. This post just reminded me of why I come here less and less.
http://www.microstockgroup.com/index.php?topic=6937.msg81597;topicseen (http://www.microstockgroup.com/index.php?topic=6937.msg81597;topicseen)
no Pauline, THIS (see link ) is why you have to keep coming back. We have to take the good with the bad, the paranoia with the facts.
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you're giving away all the secrets, and all these newbies will out sell me. already, i am crapping in my trousers ::)
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you're giving away all the secrets, and all these newbies will out sell me. already, i am crapping in my trousers ::)
Frankly Tu, if us newbies are that good after reading his "secrets", YOU ALL SHOULD BE :-*
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you're giving away all the secrets, and all these newbies will out sell me. already, i am crapping in my trousers ::)
Frankly Tu, if us newbies are that good after reading his "secrets", YOU ALL SHOULD BE :-*
hal, can't u spot the sarcasm ? 8)
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The ever growing number of contributors is a concern though. Not because of the competition but because mathematically the pie shrinks when someone new comes on board.
I don't think the maths are so simple: 90% of the pie is taken by the top N contributors (N=1000?)
Sharing is not such a big deal for me if you intend to compete for the big portion of the pie because your competitor do not need the information we can share here and any one who need this information will only compete for the small portion (with a few exceptions maybe).
Yuri and AVAVA understand that well IMHO.
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The ever growing number of contributors is a concern though. Not because of the competition but because mathematically the pie shrinks when someone new comes on board.
I don't think the maths are so simple: 90% of the pie is taken by the top N contributors (N=1000?)
Sharing is not such a big deal for me if you intend to compete for the big portion of the pie because your competitor do not need the information we can share here and any one who need this information will only compete for the small portion (with a few exceptions maybe).
Yuri and AVAVA understand that well IMHO.
and if the newbies are so good that they are taking that bigger chunk. you better get your rear ends up that light table and improve your photography. no more easy meal-ticket , if you can't keep up with the competition. I think Yuri and AVAVA know that, and they welcome that competition.
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and if the newbies are so good that they are taking that bigger chunk. you better get your rear ends up that light table and improve your photography. no more easy meal-ticket , if you can't keep up with the competition. I think Yuri and AVAVA know that, and they welcome that competition.
If a newbie is so good, he will take the big chunk without having to use the information shared here.
Microstock is not rocket science: it is not that complicated to figure out what are the possible path to success. Sharing here will only help people to see those paths: success is not about knowing the path, it's about being able to actually follow it and you will not learn that here.
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and if the newbies are so good that they are taking that bigger chunk. you better get your rear ends up that light table and improve your photography. no more easy meal-ticket , if you can't keep up with the competition. I think Yuri and AVAVA know that, and they welcome that competition.
If a newbie is so good, he will take the big chunk without having to use the information shared here.
Microstock is not rocket science: it is not that complicated to figure out what are the possible path to success. Sharing here will only help people to see those paths: success is not about information, it's about being able to actually follow the path and you will not learn that here.
AMEN !
my goodness, at last , we see someone who sees past the mountain made out of the molehill of paranoia.
hello araminta, i am Tuilay, a pleasure to meet you .
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Hi Tuilay... it's a pleasure too ;D
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I wonder how many of us get ideas and tips from other people that we used to produce stock images. So many free online tutorials, so many site fora and independent fora like MSG.
I learnt a few tricks from Miz's tutorials, in fact most of what I learnt about photo edition I learnt from colleagues and photo sites.
I used to write travel reports in my site, with a lot of practical information for anyone going to those places. I didn't make a cent out of it, although sometimes people write me asking for travel package prices (they think I am an agency!). I did that for the pleasure of sharing my experience and helping others.
How many people will read Xposurepro's blog that are not into stock photography yet? How many will join because of that blog? How many will take a significant share from us? How many need that blog to find out that they don't need a studio to succeed?
There has been a very provocative and angry mood in MSG lately. Geez... :-\
Now, where are those dirt images I took months gao? I forgot to edit them.
Regards,
Adelaide
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Hi All,
Like Pauly this is the kind of post that just makes me want to stay away for a while. The only value I received besides the helpfulness of Xpo was from his comment " I didn't realize there was such a fear of competition. " There is a great shot wherever the light is great. Even an icy sidewalk when light properly could still sell very well uploaded today.
I also agree with Matt when he said everyone here has benefited from someone else's sharing of knowledge. Then it appears some choose to close the door at that point and not share what someone else was good enough to share with them in the first place. I personally feel for these kind of posts. If I had to go through life so threatened by so little I would be missing out on so much.
Not one of you was left alone in a room with a camera for a year and then set forth to compete in this business and never learned from someone else, we all learned from many sources. You all studied for free or some of you might have even paid for your education the fact is you all learned from someone and now you would like it all to yourself. I have never seen it work that way in business, never has never will.
The sharing of knowledge is one of the great qualities man has to offer one another. All some of you see is the present and your "piece of the pie" at this moment. That is so far from what will fulfill you in this lifetime or even make your business strong in the long run. It is based on greed and no way around it greed kills, I've seen it kill fortune 500 companies let alone individual stock shooters.
I think the anonymity of blogs has people say things they would never think of saying face to face and I have noticed some of the most vocal quite often don't share there personal info or their links to their work. No one has to share who they are but if you are going to take a strong stance on a subject of image quality or usability for your own credibility sake you might want to think about showing the writer or all of us your own work to support your point, just an idea.
My 2 Cents,
AVAVA
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There has been a very provocative and angry mood in MSG lately. Geez... :-\
Regards,
Adelaide
Absolutely. I don't understand all the "attacks." Is it fear or just boredom? Hard to find a compliment in here. :o
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it's like a chicken coop, y'know? if you go in to grab their eggs, squuuaaaakkkk ! ;D
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Today on Oprah - "Microstock and your piece of the pie" with a special appearance by Dr. Phil about "Trying to keep your income stable can actually kill you".
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Followed by a 4 hour special in depth report on " People living in Fear " ;D
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Today on Oprah - "Microstock and your piece of the pie" with a special appearance by Dr. Phil about "Trying to keep your income stable can actually kill you".
HA!HA!, no sjlocke, the stock market (the other one, the big one) takes care of that (ie. kill ya) ;)
Followed by a 4 hour special in depth report on " People living in Fear " ;D
followed by new book "How to survive the sky falling down" (chicken little and toad under a toadstool) ;D
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thank u so much 4 a luvly afternoon. xcuz me , i have 2 get back to read MAGARET ATWOOD "payback". .. and a breathy Hitchcock "goooood evvvening 2 u !" ;D ;D ;D
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Tan,
You have an excellent sense of humor. Keep us laughing. ;D
Best,
AVAVA
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There has been a very provocative and angry mood in MSG lately. Geez... :-\
Regards,
Adelaide
Absolutely. I don't understand all the "attacks." Is it fear or just boredom? Hard to find a compliment in here. :o
Agree...
People sometimes think that few new photographers will take all money from them. Anyway, new photographers WILL come, with this guy or without him. There are more than 100 000 of us in this business. So I think there is no place for mass panic attacks because of newcomers.
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right, sorry for caring about people trying to sign up microstockers in masses and for worrying about my dropping sales inspite of more uploads and worrying about people lossing their jobs and me still having to make sure my son is fed and has a home etc. etc..
I appologize for not being completely open to inviting the world into microstock, I am such a jerk.. What was I thinking.. I'm gonna go out right now and write an article on how to make millions in micro right now and try to get a ton of people to sign up to SS.. I was so blind before.. Thanks for opening my eyes, to the great world of getting as much competition as I can.. You know it's great to have to double your hours to maintain your income, I know my wife and son will be happy when I say.. Well I guess you either need to.
A. go without seeing me for a few more hours aday, because I have to work double time.
Or
B. Eat less in the coming months
Or
C. We'll just forget about all the effort and sacrifice our family put into stock the last couple years, because we want to make sure that bloggers can pimp microstock photograper refferals as much as they want..
Or
D. Daddy needs to go out and try to get another job in the worst job market in decades.. Because we all don't want to threatened by competition and we need to work harder to keep up, but daddy's RPI is dropping so time to effort is not going to feed you for much longer..
Cool, those are great options.. Sorry for being so greedy..
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There is a term in psychiatry for this state of mind. It's called paranoia.
For the information of all of you. I will probably lose my job in the next month because my company already fires 65% of employees, I have a son too, who's birthday is today, and we had to celebrate it no matter I will lose my job, and no matter 30 000 people lost their jobs in neighbour city of 200 000 people.
My salary is decreased for 30%, and I have a credit for a car, and my wife has credit for an apartment, as we live separate. So, we have double bills for electricity, water, garbage and telephone.
So, don't tell me about your "poor financial situation". If someone here knows how it looks like, it's me.
And, yes, I hope I opened your eyes now. You are afraid of few more photographers in the world of more than 100 000 microstock photographers. You are afraid of people who will submit 3-4 photos per week, and you are not afraid of people who are already submitting hundreds of photos per week, and make some good money here.
Even if wee all submit the same number of photos per week, with these newcomers your sales will drop 0,000 001%-0,000 005%
Now tell me, if you know math, where do you see reason for panic??
And, you didn't even think that some of us will maybe stop uploading, or even die these days. Do you want to hope that someone of us will die for you not to lose 0,000 001% of your sales? Do you?
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Well said whitechild! No need to say anything else.
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I've waded thru the sarcasm and still can't understand why some people post here. Aren't you afraid you may slip up and reveal something positive? ;D
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Well said whitechild! No need to say anything else.
ditto
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Well, I had to write all this, because when someone say something about "poor financial situation", I feel like Pamela Anderson when they call her "Doll" in a movie "Barb wire" :D
I work here all month for 400$, and prices of food and clothes are like in California. I know because I was there last fall, and I am not ashamed to say that my friend from California paid for my airplane ticket. Otherwise, I would never see California. I never go to winter vacation, and I travel only once a year to seaside, for 10-15 days with my family, and I collect money for this all year because I don't want my son to suffer because his dad can't earn enough money. And I am a vet... I saw how my colleagues live in California.
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I am sorry I came too late, but I am sure they will read this, and I hope they will realize how funny they look to me.... afraid of few newcomers who will take away that precious last peace of bread right from their mouth and eat it.... how pathetic
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I am sorry I came too late, but I am sure they will read this, and I hope they will realize how funny they look to me.... afraid of few newcomers who will take away that precious last peace of bread right from their mouth and eat it.... how pathetic
AND A DOUBLE T.K.O. (good left hook, whitechild). 8)
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I have to add this: Whitechild is one of the most generous people I've ever met. He has helped me to start with the stock photography, and I know for that fact that he has helped many others as well. For that I am very grateful to him. This is how it usually happens in life, the people that maybe have less, are often willing to share more.
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Well put Whitechild! A lot of the people complaning about competion remind me of how the old macrostock photographers cried about what microstock was doing to their earnings.Seems the "shoe is on the other foot".
Smiling Jack
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you're giving away all the secrets, and all these newbies will out sell me. already, i am crapping in my trousers ::)
AND last word, I wish you ppl don't get Tu so riled up to crap in his pant. I'm tired of having to scrub it ;D
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you're giving away all the secrets, and all these newbies will out sell me. already, i am crapping in my trousers ::)
AND last word, I wish you ppl don't get Tu so riled up to crap in his pant. I'm tired of having to scrub it ;D
Good one!!
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Now tell me, if you know math, where do you see reason for panic??
And, you didn't even think that some of us will maybe stop uploading, or even die these days. Do you want to hope that someone of us will die for you not to lose 0,000 001% of your sales? Do you?
Ummmm, I see no panic anyone here except for this hysterical statement above. Just common sense thoughts.
I will bookmark this thread. Someday, when complaints arise about profits dropping, I will pull it out to see who is being greedy, and not sharing enough with all their competition.
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If you think your sales are dropped because of few more photographers, than you should maybe follow stock market everyday, and see the connection between global economic crisis and your sales. You will see that every day stock market goes down, your sales go down as well, and vice versa.
And, as someone already said, if you are afraid of new photographers, maybe it's time to try to find your self in some other business. Creative people will find a way to stand against the crowd. They are not afraid
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I don't know why we have to accuse people of being greedy because they worry about competition. Everyone who runs a business has to worry about competition to one degree or another.
The economy has lots of folks spooked right now. Tubed and Whitechild are both concerned for their family and their financial well being, as are probably most of us. I don't think either one is any worse than the other - they are just approaching the problem with a different point of view.
I have been doing this for 4 years and believe me, from that perspective there definitely IS more competition, and it is harder to make a living doing this than it was back when there were far fewer people doing it. If microstock is your main source of income it is perfectly natural to worry about its future direction and what effect competition will have.
That said, I prefer not to get sucked into the negativity and the fear. I have no objection to people sharing information. In fact I have really enjoyed learning from some of the more experienced pros who have been kind enough to share. I really believe that ITLR a rising tide lifts all boats, and cooperation rather than competition is the way to keep this industry growing and healthy for all of us.
Sorry if the above is too Pollyanna, but look at it another way - you can't control who shares what with whom anyway, so why stress over it? Better to spend the energy on what you CAN control, like your own portfolio and skill development.
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If you think your sales are dropped because of few more photographers, than you should maybe follow stock market everyday, and see the connection between global economic crisis and your sales. You will see that every day stock market goes down, your sales go down as well, and vice versa.
And, as someone already said, if you are afraid of new photographers, maybe it's time to try to find your self in some other business. Creative people will find a way to stand against the crowd. They are not afraid
"Creative people will find a way to stand against the crowd. They are not afraid." Well said, Whitechild!
The NON Creative ones will fail.
I have been in photography since the early 50's and had lots of competition, yet I was able to put my kids through college on my earnings from photography. I had competition every year and in everyting I tried. Some times I won sometimes I lost. Yet I will offer help to anyone who asks for it. I have helped many and many have helped me including Whitechild.
Anyone afraid of competition should take up gambling. It's you and the machine or dealer. No competition!
-Larry
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Thank you Larry and thank you Lisa for your well balanced post. When I started microstock, one man helped me too. It's one of the greatest stock photographers, and he is doing this for some 45 years. He didn't mind to help me, especially when I had to apply for SS. He is really "big fish" in this business. I am really thankful to him and to all people that gave me advices.
Lisa, well said: "Better to spend the energy on what you CAN control, like your own portfolio and skill development." I'm off to bed now. It's late here. Have to refill my batteries for tomorrow.
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Sorry but IMHO the OP is simply making yet another pathetic attempt to drum up referrals whilst writing complete nonsense in his 'article'. Only the most feeble-brained newbie (the sort that has no chance whatsoever of achieving success) could possibly learn anything from it.
These twats pop up every couple of weeks or so. I really don't know why you guys are wasting the time to indulge his ego (and keep his thread active).
Please can we let it die a natural death as soon as possible now? TIA.
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People helped me too and I have helped others many times.. 4th time saying this I AM ALL FOR POSTING HELPFULL INFO AND HELPING PEOPLE WITH QUESTIONS ETC. ETC. I LOVE PEOPLE HELPING PEOPLE..
My point in every post in this thread is (seems like people are selective reading).. I am not supportive of photographers out drumming up competition for refferals, and with false truths about how easy it is to make that money in micro.. Competition will come and that is normal and expected, but that doesn't meen I'm gonna get excited about someone out promoting a blog post that is clearly trying to attract people to sign up for refferals.. The title of this thread sais it all "make money shooting nothing".. I think the sites themselves do enough recruiting.. BTW AGAIN I like XposurePro's post about lightning.
I won't respond to any of the silly crapping pants and "good left hook" comments. I have not said anything here to insult anyone and am not going to start now, I have just been trying to arguing my perspective respectfully.. I don't expect everyone or anyone to see it my way (that's what's great about freedom) but I don't think that starting a high school e-brawl and chanting go get em' get's anyone many points..
I think Ive stated my points a few 3 or 4 times so I think at this point it's just going in circles so I am not going to waste more time repeating stuff. I LIKE SHARING! YAY 4 SHARING!! Not refferal Pimping..
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I AM ALL FOR POSTING HELPFULL INFO AND HELPING PEOPLE WITH QUESTIONS ETC. ETC. I LOVE PEOPLE HELPING PEOPLE..
Why all the shouting? You sound like some swivel-eyed, green-ink-writing nutcase to me.
You could help all of us by refraining fromsuch hysterical clap-trap.
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The NON Creative ones will fail.
Oh, I doomed! ::)
Sorry but IMHO the OP is simply making yet another pathetic attempt to drum up referrals whilst writing complete nonsense in his 'article'.
So why not just ignore him? Why the need for accusations? I saw accusations against Miz in the past too - like his tutorials were nothing new, etc. - yet for some people (like me) they were helpful. He helped me understand how to work with masks, something that is old news for experienced photoshoppers.
There are many threads in this forum that are (to me) nothing more than traffic generators to personal websites and blogs. "This is a new software. Click here to read more in my blog". "Have you tested it? Have you compared to another?" Even though I find it annoying, I didn't know this was forbidden.
The main source of critics to Xposure however has been the "threat" of his blog post bringing new stock photographers, that is, competition. His blog must be very popular!
I wonder what will happen when another novice comes here and asks for advice on how to make a good isolation. Will everyone keep quiet afraid of competition?
Regards,
Adelaide
PS: I am in a very comfortable position, as photography is not a significant source of income for me. But in my professional life as an engineer I always shared information, even to colleagues who did not do the same (and even benefited from keeping information to themselves). These colleagues may be my competitors when it comes to promotion, salary raise or mere recognition, but more important to me is, without the need to keep "strategic" information to myself, is to see the gratefulness in my colleagues, especially the new generation, for having shared my knowledge with them.
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If you think your sales are dropped because of few more photographers, than you should maybe follow stock market everyday, and see the connection between global economic crisis and your sales. You will see that every day stock market goes down, your sales go down as well, and vice versa.
And, as someone already said, if you are afraid of new photographers, maybe it's time to try to find your self in some other business. Creative people will find a way to stand against the crowd. They are not afraid
Got it. The only thing that affects your sales is the stock market, and nothing else. Seems to be an awfully narrow indicator of what affects your performance, but I'm not one to judge how your sales are affected.
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So why not just ignore him?
If you read my spiel that's exactly what I'm recommending.
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PS: I am in a very comfortable position, as photography is not a significant source of income for me. But in my professional life as an engineer I always shared information, even to colleagues who did not do the same (and even benefited from keeping information to themselves). These colleagues may be my competitors when it comes to promotion, salary raise or mere recognition, but more important to me is, without the need to keep "strategic" information to myself, is to see the gratefulness in my colleagues, especially the new generation, for having shared my knowledge with them.
Exactly my experience as well. I am an engineer too and I am blessed to work in a team where knowledge sharing is understood to be beneficial to all. While we do all work in a same team, unlike stock contributors, as individuals we can still become potential competitors when it comes to benefits at work, including not being laid off. However, I would never keep information from my colleagues and, in turn I also believe they don't keep it from me, at least not in my present team. That level of trust is what keeps me happy at my job.
As Adelaide pointed out, it is very gratifying to see that your colleagues, especially the junior ones, are grateful and happy that they learned something new from you.
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Exactly my experience as well. I am an engineer too and I am blessed to work in a team where knowledge sharing is understood to be beneficial to all. While we do all work in a same team, unlike stock contributors, as individuals we can still become potential competitors when it comes to benefits at work, including not being laid off. However, I would never keep information from my colleagues and, in turn I also believe they don't keep it from me, at least not in my present team. That level of trust is what keeps me happy at my job.
As Adelaide pointed out, it is very gratifying to see that your colleagues, especially the junior ones, are grateful and happy that they learned something new from you.
With that philosophy I guess Bill Gates must be cursing his decision not to provide MSDOS as freeware. Not.
Trouble is Goldenangel it is easy to be generous when what you have has sod-all monetary value anyway.
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These twats pop up every couple of weeks or so. I really don't know why you guys are wasting the time to indulge his ego (and keep his thread active).
Please can we let it die a natural death as soon as possible now? TIA.
That's from several hours ago, gostwyck.
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I AM ALL FOR POSTING HELPFULL INFO AND HELPING PEOPLE WITH QUESTIONS ETC. ETC. I LOVE PEOPLE HELPING PEOPLE..
Why all the shouting? You sound like some swivel-eyed, green-ink-writing nutcase to me.
You could help all of us by refraining fromsuch hysterical clap-trap.
Sorry,
It's just everyone is totally ignoring these parts of my posts.. I am not against newbies, I am not against sharing info.. What I am against is people beating the drums to collect more microstock contributors to get more refferals. I said it like 4 times and yet people are still like - why are you so scared to share info? why are you so scared of helping newbies? That is not even close to what I ever said.. I bolded stuff I already said in other posts so people would stop ignoring it.. I will share with Newbs with collegues, whatever and encourage others to do the same.. If a newby asks me a question I have and will help them, never said otherwise.. But people have been completely ignoring those sentences in my posts..
The OP is not a newby. he's a site admin at one of the big 6 and he is here marketing his blog and drumming for refferals and Google advertising income (Google, banners and ads income is totaly cool with me) his traffic has nothing to do with it, I hope he has great advertising sales through Google, self sales, whatever and I hope he get's lot's of traffic.. I just don't like the microstock signup pimping. Some of his other blog posts are pretty good and I hope people get some use from them.
Whatever, I am soo over this stuff.. I guess people can go ahead and twist my words how they like, I'm tired of trying to explain things people ignore, their only looking at the parts they want to see not the whole view..
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;-)
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I'm a little concerned about what is going to happen over the course of the year as I continue to post articles that will help photographers grow their businesses, find new ways to promote their services, expand on their photographic knowledge and yes clue them in on tricks of the trade in microstock. Due to the fact that I evaluate and review thousands of microstock photographers on a monthly basis I am extremely aware of exactly why they are being rejected and losing sales. I have access to the primary statistics that the rest of you who are struggling do not have access to. I know that when a lot of you get a reject most often you are confused on exactly why it was rejected. When we reject an image we select a pre-defined reason that is closest to our reason for rejection. However, we cannot spend all day writing out custom notifications explaining in detail why it was rejected. Im going to use this in hope that I can shed some light on certain issues that will allow photographers to decrease their rejections and increase their profits.
Will me training newcomers cause the sky to fall and our incomes to drop and put us all out of business? Did the stock industry crash when I switched to microstock 5 years ago? Did stock photographers freak out when I licensed my very first stock image in 1990 before I was even old enough to drive? No it didn't and if I thought I alone had a global effect on it .. well that would be extremely foolish and egotistical of me. So .... Did the microstock industry go into a downward spiral when somebody clued you into it?
Incidentally, it seems some of you are bothered thinking I shared knowledge in exchange for massive referrals .. which if you were running a blog you probably would put them on there too .. it would be foolish to not do so. However, the excuse of bashing the sharing of knowledge based on referral links is just a bit silly. If I was looking for referrals do you think I would go to a place where everybody already knows about microstock??? No .. everyone here is probably already signed up to all the agencies so me looking for referrals here makes no sense. If I want massive referrals I'm going to target an audience that is unaware of the microstock industry .. not groups that specialize in it. If you were not able to catch on to that maybe you should ask yourself .. how much of a business sense do I really have? Rather than worrying about other photographers getting ahead you should focus on learning a few new tricks yourself ... I will be making a habit of sharing everything I know. ;D
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Trouble is Goldenangel it is easy to be generous when what you have has sod-all monetary value anyway.
Thank you. I think I know better what (monetary) value my knowledge has.
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It took me a while to read through all this.. I am quite surprised on the reaction to the helpfulness but I guess there always has to be some snoots be yatching about something. I found it funny that Yuri is mentioned a few times... he isnt even in this conversation. I am positive he is not worried about competition of the newbies.His photography stands out from most.
Hundreds of newbies submit to microstock each day and let me tell you.. a majority of them have alot to learn just like you did. SO if you are so worried and not confident that a newbie will steal your sales away from you... you need to get better in your craft.. don't you think?
When anyone starts microstock, they learn so much... most people do not know what artifacts are or how to check for focus.
If they are not professionals.. they have not learned composition.
What is wrong with sharing information to help people hone their craft? You must be a greedy grinch to not want XposurePro to share tips of the trade. I will share anything I know of tips to help anyone do better and with the economy like it is, people are looking for ways to make money on the side to help with their bills. How can you not want to help people in need?
If you do not sell much.. maybe its because your images are not good or need work. Maybe you need to be reading the tips and taking them to heart.
I bet if everyone told what their biggest seller is, it would be surprising. My biggest seller isnt even very good. LOL Every day nothings sell more than fancy somethings!
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I personally found the blog very interesting. It has made me start looking at things that I would not normally look at to possibly photograph and even better, to use as backgrounds for other pictures and so on. I'm glad it was posted and wanted to just say thank you for sharing. I am surprised at all the negative reactions - it's like reading a forum at IS - everyone pooh-poohing the person who posts. That's why I rarely post anything at the IS forum, people are so negative and condescending. I'm sad to see it is happening here also.
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PS: I am in a very comfortable position, as photography is not a significant source of income for me. But in my professional life as an engineer I always shared information, even to colleague...
Exactly my experience as well. I am an engineer too and I am blessed to work in a team where knowledge sharing is understood to be beneficial to all...
In any company, sharing knowledge between teams is not only necessary, but it is required. The company you are working for ask you to do the best to improve its business and sharing is a good way to make the company more efficient. The company does not care about the fact that you may compete with your colleagues for promotion and you are not supposed to keep information in order to be in a better personal position: it would be a reason to fire you I would say.
But do you share information with the guy working for your company's competitor?
Not a good example IMHO ;)
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Concerning sharing, I feel myself somewhere between Yuri/AVAVA and Sean... the truth is always somewhere inbetween.
But I have a question to all sharers: let's say tomorrow you find a simple way to double your sales at IS by just adding a specific keyword in all your photos (e.g. a bug in the best match algorithm which would then put all your images at the top).
Would you share this information here?
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Guys, we talk about competition among hundreds of thousands of competitors. Few more competitors don't make any difference.
So, araminta, your example cannot apply to this situation here. It's not equivalent. If there is a bug like this, to double your sales, I would say it would be equivalent to situation of doubling the number of contributors, and decreasing your sales for 50%
Anyway, I will repeat again. New photographers WILL come. Do you plan to make a strategu to prevent their arrival, or you will accept that you are not the only one who wants to earn some money selling photos?
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So, araminta, your example cannot apply to this situation here. It's not equivalent. If there is a bug like this, to double your sales, I would say it would be equivalent to situation of doubling the number of contributors, and decreasing your sales for 50%
It's relevant to the fact that the more you have to gain/lose from a piece of information, the less you are eager to share it. It's about the fact that it is easy to say "you are greedy" when you have nothing to lose, but everything to gain in sharing :D
And some information are quite important for some niche contributors: I would like MISHA to share how he is doing that: http://www.istockphoto.com/file_search.php?action=file&lightboxID=3362561&removeCache=1 (http://www.istockphoto.com/file_search.php?action=file&lightboxID=3362561&removeCache=1)... but I guess he won't ;D
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Exactly as you said "when you have nothing to lose".
You have nothing to lose here, that's why I said this is just paranoia...when you are afraid of things that can't hurt you.
There is always a limit about everything in life
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I agree the example was not the best, even though it does apply as the company often does not know the extent of our knowledge and, therefore cannot require us to share a specific piece of information
But then again, what is the purpose of this forum? I thought it was sharing the information. Sharing ANY information here helps other people, doesn't it?
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I don't think the OP's blog is going to be a threat to anybody for a couple of reasons:
Firstly he's encouraging people to shoot dirt, if anybody is stupid enough to believe they are going to make any real money with the advice he's giving then let them try.
Secondly as he keeps telling everyone he is a administrator/reviewer, there's only one reason that anybody would want to sit in front of their computer for hours on end looking at other peoples photos for the lowest wage on the planet !!
People that have the talent to make money in this industry are out there doing it, not making blogs, trying to get referrals and certainly not by being a reviewer.
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You have nothing to lose here, that's why I said this is just paranoia...when you are afraid of things that can't hurt you.
There is always a limit about everything in life
I mostly agree as I explained in a previous message: most information shared here and there will not hurt any good/creative contributor.
But as you say: there is a limit.
And this limit is not the same for everybody as some are more exposed than others or have more to lose.
I would be interested in knowing your position in a few years when your microstock earnings are sufficient to pay for your house. Then a flow of millions of contributors from China will come to microstock through chinese agencies with $0.01 commission per download. And chinese contributors will come here to ask you how to do a good isolation.
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Secondly as he keeps telling everyone he is a administrator/reviewer, there's only one reason that anybody would want to sit in front of their computer for hours on end looking at other peoples photos for the lowest wage on the planet !!
No replies on Friends ReUnited ?
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I will catch as many of them to become my referrals, and make a profit, just like I am doing right now. :)
The list of my referrals is growing :) 50% of my income at SS comes from referrals right now ;)
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I will catch as many of them to become my referrals, and make a profit, just like I am doing right now. :)
The list of my referrals is growing :) 50% of my income at SS comes from referrals right now ;)
This is a possible business strategy indeed :)
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Also, I am trying to attract buyers as well. My list of referrals at IS is growing too.
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Also, I am trying to attract buyers as well. My list of referrals at IS is growing too.
Well, for $10 per referral I wouldn't bother with that myself.
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Well, for now I have 7 referrals, and one of them brought me 20$ because he joined in september last year, when IS used to give 20$ for a referral. And I don't bother with that. I made a simple website. I spent about one hour of my time to make it, and now I get 10 dollars from time to time. I think it's worth it. I do nothing, and referrals are joining.
Maybe we all should spend some time to attract buyers, instead of spending time and energy to prevent new photographers to join. I think it would be more productive
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I'm a little concerned about what is going to happen over the course of the year as I continue to post articles that will help photographers grow their businesses, find new ways to promote their services, expand on their photographic knowledge and yes clue them in on tricks of the trade in microstock.
Why don't you spend your time trying to increase the buyer base instead? That will be beneficial to all contributors, help them as sales grow and educate new buyers out there as to the options available. The sort of approach where "I make money from X, I want to train others to compete with me in X" just seems masochistic to me.
Will me training newcomers cause the sky to fall and our incomes to drop and put us all out of business? Did the stock industry crash when I switched to microstock 5 years ago? Did stock photographers freak out when I licensed my very first stock image in 1990 before I was even old enough to drive? No it didn't and if I thought I alone had a global effect on it .. well that would be extremely foolish and egotistical of me. So .... Did the microstock industry go into a downward spiral when somebody clued you into it?
You and others keep saying "well, one more won't hurt". A - It ain't going to help. B - You forget there's an entire world out there poking around the internet. you hardly know what waves you are going cause.
If I want massive referrals I'm going to target an audience that is unaware of the microstock industry .. not groups that specialize in it. If you were not able to catch on to that maybe you should ask yourself .. how much of a business sense do I really have? Rather than worrying about other photographers getting ahead you should focus on learning a few new tricks yourself ... I will be making a habit of sharing everything I know. ;D
You are targeting an audience that is unaware, with your "shoot pictures of dirt to make money theme". Lee Torrens posts perfectly useful stuff on his blog that we can all enjoy discussing, but he's not running about trying to sign up the next 1000 contributors.
Again, I (and others) certainly don't think the sky is falling because you posted an article on shooting mundane things, regardless of all the words like "panic" and "fear" people seem to use around here. And having the insight you do could provide help for experienced micro shooters (again, probably to your detriment). But as one piece of the pie, it just doesn't seem to make financial or business sense to me.
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Quiz
If you were the only contributor to a site that pays 50% and does $1,000,000 in sales, how much would you make?
If you were one of 1,000,000 contributors to a site that pays 50% and does $1,000,000 in sales, how much would you make?
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If you were the only contributor to a site that pays 50% and does $1,000,000 in sales, how much would you make?
$500'000
If you were one of 1,000,000 contributors to a site that pays 50% and does $1,000,000 in sales, how much would you make?
$450'000... if you are the best!
;)
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If you were one of 1,000,000 contributors to a site that pays 50% and does $1,000,000 in sales, how much would you make?
Depends on how many of the 1,000,000 are your referrals and what the sales of dirt are like there I suppose.
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I would be interested in knowing your position in a few years when your microstock earnings are sufficient to pay for your house. Then a flow of millions of contributors from China will come to microstock through chinese agencies with $0.01 commission per download. And chinese contributors will come here to ask you how to do a good isolation.
Hey ppl, forget the chinese, I was driving to work and I saw a busload of autoworkers all headed downtown . Some ex-stock photographer is offering free advice on how to make millions shooting
toilet paper products.
hey, that's a good reason to crap in my pants again (sorry Hali)...
count them: 25,000 Laid off Autoworkers from Detroit.
Every single one of them just bought a Canon DSLR.
Man, we are heading for Sh#t Creek. There goes my 2009 Porsche :o
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oh shoot (bad pun), I forgot the other bunch of competitors already there at the OTHER convention. Laid off Starbucks workers looking for Photoshop genius to teach them isolation work. Their destructive insurgence against us, "make $$$$ shooting isolation shot of coffee and coffee products. Starbucks will supply the coffee. :o
Panic Button already pushed twice.
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Quiz
If you were the only contributor to a site that pays 50% and does $1,000,000 in sales, how much would you make?
If you were one of 1,000,000 contributors to a site that pays 50% and does $1,000,000 in sales, how much would you make?
If I was the only contributor, the buyers would all go to the other sites :) I used to be concerned about extra competition but now I think there are only a small percentage of contributors that can make much money. The rest will get bored and move on or continue making tiny amounts. There are lots of buyers and that is going to increase a lot in the future. The sites would close their doors to contributors if they had too many images and not enough buyers, like some of the traditional sites have.
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Why don't you spend your time trying to increase the buyer base instead? That will be beneficial to all contributors, help them as sales grow and educate new buyers out there as to the options available. The sort of approach where "I make money from X, I want to train others to compete with me in X" just seems masochistic to me.
My target audience consists of photographers .. Microstock is only one aspect of photography that I cover in my blog .. I will be posting a great deal about running a photography business, a small part of which is microstock. If I write a blog post trying to influence buyers I will be offering advice to a completely different audience who would never read it because they are not apart of my targeted audience .. thus I would fail. That would just be a bad business move and it wouldn't help anyone.
You and others keep saying "well, one more won't hurt". A - It ain't going to help. B - You forget there's an entire world out there poking around the internet. you hardly know what waves you are going cause.
I'm not forgetting there's an entire world out there. I've been in this business since 1990 .. long before microstock or the internet for that matter. I'm quite aware of the reality of this business. I do want to create a wave to be honest. I want to put my experience to a meaningful use and do what I can to improve the quality of photography as a whole. Everyone who is so concerned with their sales should ask themselves a few questions. Do you realize how many photographers are getting into microstock that have no experience in photography? Do you realize how many photos have gone online that do not meet the traditional standards of quality? Do you realize how many freebie sites are associating themselves with the industry? Do you realize that mircostock agencies are beginning to ask for the option that rejects be offered for free and what impact this will have if it becomes mainstream? Have you paid attention to the fact that the information provided by magazine publishers over the last 2 decades follows a steady slope from targeting professionalism to targeting the general consumer and what impact that has had on this industry? I could go on and on about waves that have already been created and are building. Most people's problem is they think about "ME" they think about "NOW" they don't think about 5, 10 or 20 years into the future. The answers to all the questions I just asked points to a decrease in photographic quality on a global scale. Rather than everyone being concerned with "what if all these new photographers are better than me and I have to compete with them for sales?" you need to be asking yourself "what is going to happen to the industry when it becomes totally flooded by photographers with no training?"
You are targeting an audience that is unaware, with your "shoot pictures of dirt to make money theme". Lee Torrens posts perfectly useful stuff on his blog that we can all enjoy discussing, but he's not running about trying to sign up the next 1000 contributors.
Again, I (and others) certainly don't think the sky is falling because you posted an article on shooting mundane things, regardless of all the words like "panic" and "fear" people seem to use around here. And having the insight you do could provide help for experienced micro shooters (again, probably to your detriment). But as one piece of the pie, it just doesn't seem to make financial or business sense to me.
Once again, do you think I will get a ton of referrals by targeting an audience who are already aware of the available microstocks sites? There's a huge list of them going down the right side of this page. Chances are the majority will find these sites without the aid of my post. If you add up all the direct referral links that can be seen on this forum it would rank in the millions ... I do not have a single one on here .. not one. Yet I am trying to trick people into giving me referrals? There's simply no logic in that. Lee Torrens site was also probably a bad example to use. His site leans more towards what new rather than how to where my site leans towards how to rather than whats new. That and you are trying to make a claim that I am seeking mass referrals and that he is not. The number of referral links on my site does not even come close to the number of referral links that can be found on his site, so once again ... that just doesnt even make sense ... and before anyone starts claiming I just said Lee had a bad site, read more carefully. I said it was a bad example for this topic not a bad site. (just thought I would nip that in the bud before the old lady gossip started)
On a side note, don't take anything I say personal. We all know it's hard to tell "how" a person is saying something when you are just reading text on a screen. All my comments are based simply on business standards, deductive logic and experience and not on emotion. If you don't want to follow it .. that's fine. But it's a shame that the attitude exists where those feel they have to grab newcomers by the collar and pull them away from learning something that could prove to be very valuable to them .. simply based on their own personal opinions and not fact. Because the fact is, my post is in no way a get rich quick style post .. I talk about making hundreds to a couple thousand over time from building a collection of quality photos of simple subjects ... I never imply that you can make millions a month uploading junk like some of you have tried to give the impression. If you read my post and honestly did not understand that .. it's time to turn down the ego volume and spend a little more time learning because you have a long way to go. That statement might seem harsh. Don't take it personal. I'm saying it because if you do not continue to learn and take your time rather than quickly scanning through something and jumping to conclusions .. you will eventually fall behind and be replaced. I personally dont want to see that happen to any of you because I know progress is fueled by competition.
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Dear Xposure,
I hate to participate in this embarrasing thread, but I just wanted you to know that I dig blogs like yours and that I've added it to my feeds.
MSG is usually a pleasant place, but I have noticed that many photographers who have enjoyed any measure of success often get bullied on these boards. Please do enjoy the fact that you have been attacked ;).
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There are lots of buyers and that is going to increase a lot in the future. The sites would close their doors to contributors if they had too many images and not enough buyers, like some of the traditional sites have.
Very good point
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There are lots of buyers and that is going to increase a lot in the future. The sites would close their doors to contributors if they had too many images and not enough buyers, like some of the traditional sites have.
Very good point
Not really. The number of images they carry is no concern to the agency. They'll make the sales regardless of who they come from. It is concerning from the contributor's point of view, not the agencies' point of view.
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Hi All,
If you are a skilled photographer especially when it comes to lighting and composition I think the concern of others competing goes away or decreases by a strong margin. Maybe not, maybe it is a personality thing about self confidence. I am just guessing here but the same people keep coming back to show their worries about competition. Get ready there are a bunch more coming no matter what you say. I did an ASMP lecture on stock last week and in all the years I have never seen the house so packed. We are the home of Boeing, Starbucks and Microsoft and they all started huge lay off plans this month.
Many more to come and these people are not stupid the internet is crawling with info on Micro. They will find their way into every opportunity out there that pays the bills what we say and do not say will not discourage that from happening. Really I think you all give yourself a bit to much credit if you think the world is not aware or will not become aware of Micro if everyone here stays quiet. " PSST! HEY BUDDY have I got a deal for you. Come over hear to the alley and let me show you something that is going to change your life, it's called Micro. SHHH!. " It's not hidden treasure gang, it's more like Las Vegas, just add the alcohol and you're there. ;D
Have a great day and remember the cream always rises,
AVAVA
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Get ready there are a bunch more coming no matter what you say. I did an ASMP lecture on stock last week and in all the years I have never seen the house so packed. We are the home of Boeing, Starbucks and Microsoft and they all started huge lay off plans this month. ...
PSST! HEY BUDDY have I got a deal for you. Come over hear to the alley and let me show you something that is going to change your life, it's called Micro. SHHH!. " It's not hidden treasure gang, it's more like Las Vegas, just add the alcohol and you're there. ;D
so Tuilay was right. I knew it was you AVAVA. you tell-all, you !
I am going to drop by after work, I want your autograph..
also, you get that alcohol ready... I got some friends recently laid off from Starbucks coming with you ;)
oh another thing, Angelina Jolie wants to adopt another child. so she's getting into micro to earn some extra money (SHHHHHH, just between us all here).
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There are lots of buyers and that is going to increase a lot in the future. The sites would close their doors to contributors if they had too many images and not enough buyers, like some of the traditional sites have.
Very good point
Not really. The number of images they carry is no concern to the agency. They'll make the sales regardless of who they come from. It is concerning from the contributor's point of view, not the agencies' point of view.
Then why does everybody have a "We have enough of these" policy in place. Tried uploading a photo of a flower lately or a cloudscape?
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Then why does everybody have a "We have enough of these" policy in place. Tried uploading a photo of a flower lately or a cloudscape?
I can't speak for other agencies, but iStock does not.
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Dear Xposure,
I hate to participate in this embarrasing thread, but I just wanted you to know that I dig blogs like yours and that I've added it to my feeds.
MSG is usually a pleasant place, but I have noticed that many photographers who have enjoyed any measure of success often get bullied on these boards. Please do enjoy the fact that you have been attacked ;).
pixart, that's somethng I never thought of ! I 've always thought these motley crew were out against newbies coming in. Now that you've mentioned it, No! they are actually more worried about someone with the ability to shoot well, and know the market, encroaching on their territory.
wow, my eyes have seen the glory of the coming of Apocalypse III :o
and us newbies can rest a bit. ;) (...hey guys, it's not us they're attacking !!!)
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Then why does everybody have a "We have enough of these" policy in place. Tried uploading a photo of a flower lately or a cloudscape?
I can't speak for other agencies, but iStock does not.
Take another look http://www.istockphoto.com/needed.php
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Sorry, I can't find the thread right now, but "Not Needed" was dropped as a rejection a long time ago. While things on the "not needed" list are subject to higher scrutiny, good shots will make it in.
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Hey Hali,
You can drop by anytime. Maybe we should all meet for coffee at a Starbucks and keep one more employee from switching over to the dark side of MICRO. :-\
Peace,
AVAVA
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Hey Hali,
You can drop by anytime. Maybe we should all meet for coffee at a Starbucks and keep one more employee from switching over to the dark side of MICRO. :-\
Peace,
AVAVA
GOOD IDEAA Av, I am sooo sick and tired of someone shooting with a recently bought Canon set at Auto, stealing my sales.
:o
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I was at the ASMP meeting AVAVA spoke at last week..by the way..great job dude, you stole the show, and not just because you were the loudest :)
He referred to a point I would like to also make..no matter how many thousands, millions, billions or trillions of photographers and wannabe photographers scramble to upload as many photo's as they can, if you know what people are buying and can shoot those photo's better than anyone else you will make more money. Simple as that. Focus on constantly improving your portfolio and no matter how many people you are up against, you will succeed.
A trend I often see is people making excuses and justifying their lack of success by laying blame on external factors completely out of their control..the economy, too many other photographers, etc. I watch a lot of the portfolio's of the loudest people and find that there aren't many new images being uploaded. You cannot sit on your tail and expect the work you have done in the past to carry you into the future. You have to constantly work, learn and evolve or you will fail.
That's my .02 anyway...it's only worth about .007 but what the heck.
Mat
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Hi Mat,
Thanks for the kind words. You know I was the loudest I always am. ;) Theater family background we all learned to speak from the diaphragm at a very young age. ;) Also coaching sports for all these years yes I am quite often the loudest unless someone else from my family is in the room, you would need ear plugs for a holiday meal at my house. ::)
Best,
AVAVA
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I would be interested in knowing your position in a few years when your microstock earnings are sufficient to pay for your house. Then a flow of millions of contributors from China will come to microstock through chinese agencies with $0.01 commission per download. And chinese contributors will come here to ask you how to do a good isolation.
Hey, I was researching the possible threat of Chinese photographers. Not the newbies who carry an instamatic, but the real photographers who will w#pe your a#se off with their photography technique.
Guess what? Are you ready with your paramedics, and tranquilizers (I suggest lithium or valium)...
???
News on the web CHINA GOVT TO BAN WEB PORN.
what this means to you motley crew of paranoia?
hundreds of unemployed porn workers and get this PHOTOGRAPHERS ... i repeat PHOTOGRAPHERS..
all pro shooters... will have to look for an easy way to replace their loss of income.
MICRO STOCK !!!
THE SKY HAS FALLEN ! better start shooting dirt !!! 8)
(aw hali, you better scrub this one again , sorry!) ;D ;D ;D
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Hi Mat,
Thanks for the kind words. You know I was the loudest I always am. ;) Theater family background we all learned to speak from the diaphragm at a very young age. ;) Also coaching sports for all these years yes I am quite often the loudest unless someone else from my family is in the room, you would need ear plugs for a holiday meal at my house. ::)
Best,
AVAVA
Too funny. Your family sounds exactly like mine. We are loud diaphragm talkers with theater backgrounds too. Now I will look forward to meeting you so we can see who's the loudest, not to mention the most dramatic :D
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Easy to clear a restaurant if we all got together huh. ;D
Best,
AVAVA
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But do you share information with the guy working for your company's competitor?
Depending on the information, sure. I won't talk about some new development that is being patented, but I may share experience about less strategic information. I don't consider saying "you can earn money from photographing dirt" a strategic information about the microstock market. Do you?
Due to the fact that I evaluate and review thousands of microstock photographers on a monthly basis I am extremely aware of exactly why they are being rejected and losing sales. I have access to the primary statistics that the rest of you who are struggling do not have access to. I know that when a lot of you get a reject most often you are confused on exactly why it was rejected.
Please don't tell me. Ignorance is a bliss and I don't want to find out that my rejections are not the reviewers' faults! ;D
Regards,
Adelaide
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Easy to clear a restaurant if we all got together huh. ;D
LOL! You bet! But of course if they are smart they will put up with us. We are great tippers :D
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Please don't tell me. Ignorance is a bliss and I don't want to find out that my rejections are not the reviewers' faults! ;D
Regards, Adelaide
nao migoodnez nao, combinado with Adelaide. I'd rather live the rest of my week thinking that perharps the myopic reviewer put on the wrong pair of glasses :D
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But do you share information with the guy working for your company's competitor?
Depending on the information, sure. I won't talk about some new development that is being patented, but I may share experience about less strategic information. I don't consider saying "you can earn money from photographing dirt" a strategic information about the microstock market. Do you?
Due to the fact that I evaluate and review thousands of microstock photographers on a monthly basis I am extremely aware of exactly why they are being rejected and losing sales. I have access to the primary statistics that the rest of you who are struggling do not have access to. I know that when a lot of you get a reject most often you are confused on exactly why it was rejected.
Please don't tell me. Ignorance is a bliss and I don't want to find out that my rejections are not the reviewers' faults! ;D
Regards,
Adelaide
I'm actually working on some things right now about detailed reasons for rejections that will be popping up on my blog in the weeks and months to come .. so if you don't want to know you'll have to cover your eyes.
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I have added you blog to Google Reader. It looks like you have some interesting things to say :-)
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I don't think the OP's blog is going to be a threat to anybody for a couple of reasons:
Firstly he's encouraging people to shoot dirt, if anybody is stupid enough to believe they are going to make any real money with the advice he's giving then let them try.
Secondly as he keeps telling everyone he is a administrator/reviewer, there's only one reason that anybody would want to sit in front of their computer for hours on end looking at other peoples photos for the lowest wage on the planet !!
People that have the talent to make money in this industry are out there doing it, not making blogs, trying to get referrals and certainly not by being a reviewer.
Well let me give you a wake up call, firstly are you paying your house payment with your stock? WE are most months So shooting dirt, textures, wall plugs, broken glass, common things around the house and outside the house do pay the bills.
And BTW,.an inspector makes pretty good money.. obviously you have never done it. There is nothing like sitting at home with my kids all year working when I want to and being able to make just as much money as I could at a normal job. In a morning.. I can make more than I can make in 8 hours at a normal job I would work.
Not bad for "the lowest wage on the planet" It is definitely an awesome job and I love it. If you are only looking at how much you earn per image reviewed... add them up per 20,0000 or so in a month in your spare time.
I don't mind newbies joining... keeps my job in demand. Hundreds of people join every day. Keep em coming! Everyone do Referrals and give more great tips! It isnt hurting my sales any.
Nothing wrong with getting referrals. There is some real money in it. Have you researched it? Obviously not. I would love to have referrals and to anyone that gets them... I think that is wonderful for them!
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Ok Ok everyone can take a break and breath easy .. All I did today was blog about photographing waterfalls .. I didn't give away any trade secrets or anything so everyone sleep well ;D
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Hey, I was researching the possible threat of Chinese photographers. Not the newbies who carry an instamatic, but the real photographers who will w#pe your a#se off with their photography technique.
The current featured photographer (http://www.dreamstime.com/Sleiselei_info) at DT is a Chinese. I remember when he was beginning (half 2006), even exchanged some messages with him and helped him out with keywords. He got better fast, and he even doesn't do studio work. He has "snapshots" of his daughter, fire, clouds, cats, landscapes, flowers. All the things that iStock hates.
He got 131 downloads on a simple leaf detail with droplets. His keywords are bad, his subjects are "dirt". He doesn't have a website. He had 166 uploads this month, over 5,000 in 1 1/2 year. Mystery... except that he is exclusive with DT. Would DT pimp its exclusives too? Not really, he just shoots "boring" subjects better.
Whatever, we've got the invasion of the "Russians" and the "Polish plumber" in Europe 20 years ago. In those countries with a lower price level, microstock can still make a difference. In the US and Western Europe, it really can't. Any real job will make you more per hour, if you are honest.
China has 1,3 billion people, creative and smart. They just don't have the cams yet and they don't know about microstock. The cost of living is very low, if you go 50kms outside Bejing, Shanghai or HongKong. The "Russians" are already here, and dominating microstock. The "Chinese" will be soon. That's the real competition.
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And BTW,.an inspector makes pretty good money.. obviously you have never done it.
10 dollarcents per image, download, inspect full size... To make 10 dollars per hour (flipping hamburgers in Europe is 8 euro at least) you need to inspect 100 images per hour, that's one per 40 sec. Didn't Obama abolish torture? I'd rather flip hamburgers.
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And BTW,.an inspector makes pretty good money.. obviously you have never done it.
10 dollarcents per image, download, inspect full size... To make 10 dollars per hour (flipping hamburgers in Europe is 8 euro at least) you need to inspect 100 images per hour, that's one per 40 sec. Didn't Obama abolish torture? I'd rather flip hamburgers.
Ah FD, flipping burgers does not give you the sadistic pleasure pushing disposition code XXX "lens flare" , code XX "over-saturated". Anal reviewer is an awesomely cooler job ;)
Oh, another thing, with your IS reviewer badge, you can make sure the barn door is closed to any chinese photographers who is your real threat. Rejection en masse, one push of the button...no exclusiveness for you my dear chinese friends. ;D This pie is all to ourselves 8)
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Flemish said it all. As someone else mentioned elsewhere, shooting for micro is no rocket science. Any chimp can do it, as we see here with all those in panic ;D except perharps the chimps due to their lack of the written language don't know how to express any better ;)
The point is, if we are so blooming scared, it's probably because some of us have run out of ideas to SHOOT DIRT BETTER than the newbies.
Oh well, as the horse trader would say to an old toothless horse "if you can't keep up, maybe it's time we put you out . not to worry it will painless !" ;)
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...you need to inspect 100 images per hour, that's one per 40 sec.
More....much more in some agencies ;)
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When my blog comes on-line it will have no tips,advice or shooting idea's.No mention of photography at all in fact.What it will contain though is.........
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Oh my, aren't they a laughable bunch, those Istock guys?
Shattering diamonds all in fear of the perplexed newbie coming at them with better dirt!
Hahaha, that's both sad and funny :)
Not to mention that by now, gostwyck is downright nasty.
But then again, nastiness seems to be an important pre-requisite of Istock exclusivity. He fits right in.
The fear of the Newbie shows insecurity.
And some of them are quite right to live in horror.
I've seen plenty of Istock exclusive flames photos that only got to be on fire because they've been online for ages. In reality, those images are ugly shots and deserve no such fame.
Their time has come!
Improve, or live in fear! (of dirt, of blogs, of helpfulness and most of all, of wonderful, beautiful creativity. It is the one, magic ingredient that makes dirt sparkle like stardust.)
Thank you AVAVA for your shooting list, for being kind with us even if we only have 150 images online!
And do not worry! We are never going to be a threat to your sales. You're simply too good.
Thank you Exposurepro for taking the time to write the blog and for your willingness to share! It shows confidence in your work. And I'm sure it's well deserved.
The newbie shouldn't be feared.
It's the lack of one's own imagination and skills that should instead, be questioned.
Best to the best,
Anna
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Oh my, aren't they a laughable bunch, those Istock guys?
Shattering diamonds all in fear of the perplexed newbie coming at them with better dirt!
Hahaha, that's both sad and funny :)
Not to mention that by now, gostwyck is downright nasty.
But then again, nastiness seems to be an important pre-requisite of Istock exclusivity. He fits right in.
The fear of the Newbie shows insecurity.
And some of them are quite right to live in horror.
I've seen plenty of Istock exclusive flames photos that only got to be on fire because they've been online for ages. In reality, those images are ugly shots and deserve no such fame.
Their time has come!
Improve, or live in fear! (of dirt, of blogs, of helpfulness and most of all, of wonderful, beautiful creativity. It is the one, magic ingredient that makes dirt sparkle like stardust.)
Thank you AVAVA for your shooting list, for being kind with us even if we only have 150 images online!
And do not worry! We are never going to be a threat to your sales. You're simply too good.
Thank you Exposurepro for taking the time to write the blog and for your willingness to share! It shows confidence in your work. And I'm sure it's well deserved.
The newbie shouldn't be feared.
It's the lack of one's own imagination and skills that should instead, be questioned.
Best to the best,
Anna
LMAO too much, Anna ! well spoken ! ;D
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Ah FD, flipping burgers does not give you the sadistic pleasure pushing disposition code XXX "lens flare" , code XX "over-saturated". Anal reviewer is an awesomely cooler job ;)
Anal reviewer? Oh, you mean a proctologist? Better get your keywords right :P
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...you need to inspect 100 images per hour, that's one per 40 sec.
More....much more in some agencies ;)
:P - I'm used to bargain at Asian markets. Which agencies and how much? ;D
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When my blog comes on-line it will have no tips,advice or shooting idea's.No mention of photography at all in fact.What it will contain though is.........
Lesbians? Sorry, but that subject I've taken (http://www.dreamstime.com/lesbian-brides-image1102773), with 128 downloads. Try dirt. ::)
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And BTW,.an inspector makes pretty good money.. obviously you have never done it.
10 dollarcents per image, download, inspect full size... To make 10 dollars per hour (flipping hamburgers in Europe is 8 euro at least) you need to inspect 100 images per hour, that's one per 40 sec. Didn't Obama abolish torture? I'd rather flip hamburgers.
Obama hasnt done snizzle yet. It is going to take the US one hundred million trillion light years to get us out of the problems Bush made. You take them greasy burgers and I will take inspecting your images any day. Grease breaks my skin out. One morning I sat down and in 3 hours made $100. I just never sit down long enough... I cant sit still. I dont pay for a baby sitter and I am home and dont pay for gas to get to any job and can dress the way I want all day... I dont have anyone telling me what to do and when to do it. I treasure my job. Plus I have a studio downtown and work by appointment so it gives me all the freedom I need.
Minimum wage is $7.25 per hour effective July 24, 2009. I personally have never worked for that wage ever. Here a $10.00 hour job is not a bad wage where I live. Cost of living is low.
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If you were the only contributor to a site that pays 50% and does $1,000,000 in sales, how much would you make?
$500'000
If you were one of 1,000,000 contributors to a site that pays 50% and does $1,000,000 in sales, how much would you make?
$450'000... if you are the best!
;)
Bunch a smart arses :)
The point I was trying to make was that while we probably aren't direct competition we're all still competition.
Even the top contributor at any of the main sites probably isn't making more than 1 or 2% of the total revenue. So your $450,000 in reality would probably be closer to $10,000 or $20,000. A big dip from $500,000.
I think some of the paranoia comes from people that have had stock become a main source of income. Most of the hobbyists probably don't see much of a threat with more contributors joining. But what happens when it's paying the mortgage and feeding your family?
MSG seems to have become a bit more confrontational and hostile place in the past year. Competition? Economy?
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EDITED
I think some of the paranoia comes from people that have had stock become a main source of income. Most of the hobbyists probably don't see much of a threat with more contributors joining. But what happens when it's paying the mortgage and feeding your family?
MSG seems to have become a bit more confrontational and hostile place in the past year. Competition? Economy?
granted there is a paranoia, or worry, if you prefer , that someone is going to steal your ricebowl.
but everyone is hurting today; not just microstock longtimers. it's not endemic.
so if you are an autoworker from detroit who just got laid off , and we know how much they make, and how much they tend to lose... much more than here, i dare say... what do you do?
do you go out to the university and throw a rock through the window BECAUSE THE NEW GRADUATES are going to STEAL YOUR JOB?
or worse, do you stalk the professors ? after all it's their fault ,they are the one who train these young kids .
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Hi Paulie,
I really don't think the economy creates the confrontations we see here. Yes, I think it stimulates the people we truly are and shows how people react under pressure and all of us are under completely different levels of such pressure at any given time.
I really feel it comes down to weather you are someone who finds pleasure in helping others or not, as well as those somewhere slightly in between. No one type is superior some are just easier to communicate and work with than others. I tell my kids when they go to school " Don't spend to much time trying to get along with the mean kids you might find it disappointing. Search out the kind people and you will generally have a much happier life".
Everyone is so different my oldest son took it upon himself to make friends with those that pushed his buttons and tried to bully him. He felt inspired by the transformation of the relationship even as a 4 year old. Now he is 13 and still the same, everyones friend. My next son could give a rat's a*s if someone isn't nice he won't give them the time of day but if you're cool he will hang out with you. He's never a button pusher to laid back for that at 10 years old. ;) I personally think it is more Physiological than Physiological however it is a combination of the two. My thoughts only here.
Just kids but a lot like us here on MSG in my opinion. Remember being in competition starts way before you begin a job it starts as early as birth with your siblings. It is instilled in our school years not once we become part of the work force at that point a large portion of who we will become has already been established.
2 Cents,
AVAVA
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Very well said Jonathan! Love the advice you gave your kids about having a happy life. That is absolutely the truth. Knowing that early will save them a lot of heartache if they follow it.
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good one Jonathan (violins playing )... Sermon # 2...
really, we are all no different from the baboons, or any wild birds or animals. we more or less categorize ourselves among the strong, the weak, and the neutral.
children learn that very quick too. the lesson about bullies and the protector or just the leeches or neutral, whatever you call them, is everywhere.
example, i spend a lot of time by the waterfront, in my city which is a port. i would sit and enjoy my fish and chip after a long stroll taking photographs of ships,etc..
while eating my fish and chip, gulls and starlings would gather around me. i throw a few crumbs to them. you see the lesson in life come alive before you. the good large birds will share with the little ones, sometimes even blocking the weak to fence the bullies away. then the bullies take on the weak and hurt, or the fledglings. and you see the battle begins. the nurturer vs the bullies.
i think we all take on a role at an early stage in life. the bullies will always be there, waiting to find a weak fledgling to pick on. very seldom if any would they pick on someone their size, or someone much smaller but tough as nails who will hit back. survival of the fittest? perharps. all of us, nothing but a bunch of chimpanzees.
my two bobs worth here. now, shut up and stuff your face with another banana, cheetah ! ;D
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aw... so cute ! two grown man telling us their little stories of life.
makes me wanna cry already :'(
;D
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Oh my, aren't they a laughable bunch, those Istock guys?
Shattering diamonds all in fear of the perplexed newbie coming at them with better dirt!
Hahaha, that's both sad and funny :)
Not to mention that by now, gostwyck is downright nasty.
But then again, nastiness seems to be an important pre-requisite of Istock exclusivity. He fits right in.
The fear of the Newbie shows insecurity.
And some of them are quite right to live in horror.
I've seen plenty of Istock exclusive flames photos that only got to be on fire because they've been online for ages. In reality, those images are ugly shots and deserve no such fame.
Their time has come!
Improve, or live in fear! (of dirt, of blogs, of helpfulness and most of all, of wonderful, beautiful creativity. It is the one, magic ingredient that makes dirt sparkle like stardust.)
Thank you AVAVA for your shooting list, for being kind with us even if we only have 150 images online!
And do not worry! We are never going to be a threat to your sales. You're simply too good.
Thank you Exposurepro for taking the time to write the blog and for your willingness to share! It shows confidence in your work. And I'm sure it's well deserved.
The newbie shouldn't be feared.
It's the lack of one's own imagination and skills that should instead, be questioned.
Best to the best,
Anna
I'm not 'downright nasty' __ I'm just direct and tell it how it is.
Much better that than a wishy-washy, inaccurate diatribe of conspiracy theories followed by painfully large helpings of sugary, oversentimental nonsense. Get over it and get real.
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I'm not 'downright nasty' __ I'm just direct and tell it how it is.
Much better that than a wishy-washy, inaccurate diatribe of conspiracy theories followed by painfully large helpings of sugary, oversentimental nonsense. Get over it and get real.
my goodness, is this series not ever going to end or what? ::)
and gostwyck, u r so predictable.. ;D ;D ;D your button has just been pushed ;D ;D ;D
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Hi gostwyck,
It is Super Bowl Sunday so for me it is kind of a holiday but after reading what was posted yesterday I shall add another installment to this ongoing conversation. I have to say looking back through all your interest in this post I am curious "why do you keep coming back if you are so bothered by it". I would classify the following statement from you as disrespectful and I do not see how it " Tells it like it is " here is one example I am referring to.
"These twats pop up every couple of weeks or so. I really don't know why you guys are wasting the time to indulge his ego (and keep his thread active)
TWATS? I don't find this appropriate conversation and it doesn't come across as anything but derogatory.
That to me is someone trying to control the response of others through aggressive verbal remarks. More flies with honey my friend. ;D You don't have to cover something in sugar to be polite and courteous it is just being reasonable and respectful. ;)
Once again, if you don't like the post just don't read it but maybe try to bring the expletive's down a notch if you want people to here you. There are people on this site that are concerned to speak up because of responses like that.
I would much rather get as many contributors as possible talking here. Maybe next time unless it is a question or informative you might choose your words more carefully before posting, or not. ::) Thanks for your time. :)
2 Cents,
AVAVA
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Hi gostwyck,
It is Super Bowl Sunday so for me it is kind of a holiday but after reading what was posted yesterday I shall add another installment to this ongoing conversation. I have to say looking back through all your interest in this post I am curious "why do you keep coming back if you are so bothered by it". I would classify the following statement from you as disrespectful and I do not see how it " Tells it like it is " here is one example I am referring to.
"These twats pop up every couple of weeks or so. I really don't know why you guys are wasting the time to indulge his ego (and keep his thread active)
TWATS? I don't find this appropriate conversation and it doesn't come across as anything but derogatory.
edited
SO AVAVA, it's not gostwyck's fault not to be brought up with manner. 8)
can't change nuthin' ...
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That to me is someone trying to control the response of others through aggressive verbal remarks. More flies with honey my friend. ;D You don't have to cover something in sugar to be polite and courteous it is just being reasonable and respectful. ;)
Once again, if you don't like the post just don't read it but maybe try to bring the expletive's down a notch if you want people to here you. There are people on this site that are concerned to speak up because of responses like that.
I would much rather get as many contributors as possible talking here. Maybe next time unless it is a question or informative you might choose your words more carefully before posting, or not. ::) Thanks for your time. :)
2 Cents,
AVAVA
Considering the amazing display of venom you spewed out on New Years Eve, I'm surprised 'reasonable' and 'respectful' are in your vocabulary. I wonder what your kids would have thought if they'd seen it. Not many did though as the thread and your previous identity soon went south.
After that I would consider you the last person to preach on forum etiquette.
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That to me is someone trying to control the response of others through aggressive verbal remarks. More flies with honey my friend. ;D You don't have to cover something in sugar to be polite and courteous it is just being reasonable and respectful. ;)
Once again, if you don't like the post just don't read it but maybe try to bring the expletive's down a notch if you want people to here you. There are people on this site that are concerned to speak up because of responses like that.
I would much rather get as many contributors as possible talking here. Maybe next time unless it is a question or informative you might choose your words more carefully before posting, or not. ::) Thanks for your time. :)
2 Cents,
AVAVA
Considering the amazing display of venom you spewed out on New Years Eve, I'm surprised 'reasonable' and 'respectful' are in your vocabulary. I wonder what your kids would have thought if they'd seen it. Not many did though as the thread and your previous identity soon went south.
After that I would consider you the last person to preach on forum etiquette.
This thread has officially been hijacked. :(
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Hi Sentinel,
I have to agree, I did make a mistake then. I wish I hadn't. I made a clear post on the portion of my responsability in the error and tried to take accountability http://www.microstockgroup.com/index.php?topic=6717.0 Yes, I made a mistake and took responsability for it by apologizing and offering my condolances to all I hurt or upset, I 'm not sure what else a person can do.
If you believe calling people Twats is cool, then that is your opinion. Mine is that it is not. I believe I posted it as " My 2 Cents " If this is a subject I am not allowed to participate in just let me know.
I like the way you brought my kids into it, classy. Having a great day ???
AVAVA
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Is this how threads go on here? What was this thread about in the beginning? LOL
Get paid to shoot nothing I think it was. So true the hijackers have done their job! :P
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I like the way you brought my kids into it, classy. Having a great day ???
AVAVA
You brought the mention of your kids into this forum, along with your continued sarcasm.
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Please can we stop this? :(
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Guys, we talk about competition among hundreds of thousands of competitors. Few more competitors don't make any difference.
Every new competitor makes a difference. That's very simple mathematics. A few makes less difference than many obviously, but it all adds up.
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I'm a bit surprised that someone would share such valuable information, secrets, ideas, etc., that would directly have an impact on their income. Sure we can speculate about how much of an impact this thread will have on the OP's income, but I thought it was common knowledge that sharing some basic info is pretty harmless, while showing your all of your cards is entirely different and not too smart. It's hardly arguable that posting about a particular image selling well will no doubt result in at least a few copy cats producing their own version of that image, along with the usual slew of "inspired" images that will dilute that segment of the market even further.
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Yep.
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I'm a bit surprised that someone would share such valuable information, secrets, ideas, etc., that would directly have an impact on their income. Sure we can speculate about how much of an impact this thread will have on the OP's income, but I thought it was common knowledge that sharing some basic info is pretty harmless, while showing your all of your cards is entirely different and not too smart. It's hardly arguable that posting about a particular image selling well will no doubt result in at least a few copy cats producing their own version of that image, along with the usual slew of "inspired" images that will dilute that segment of the market even further.
I think he is focussing on attracting traffic, to attain advertising and refferal income.. Guess his data shows that will be more profitable than the image sales??