Author Topic: getting worried! (Read 15408 times)

cathyslife · « **Reply #25 on:** August 29, 2012, 17:40 »

Quote from: Poncke on August 29, 2012, 16:45

Chris56 on SS and posting and boasting like mad. He is also posting on Alamy as chris58 telling everyone he is gearing up for RM since RF is dead. So he is around, just not here.

He can say whatever he wants, that doesn't make it so. There are too many small businesses and individuals who can't afford RM prices for there NOT to be a microstock agency. Remember, that's why it succeeded in the first place. The economy has only gotten worse since then, so it is necessary even more so today. But I do think that the number of agencies will be whittled down to a few successful ones. There is WAY too much supply for the demand.

Milinz · « **Reply #26 on:** August 29, 2012, 18:08 »

Quote from: lisafx on August 29, 2012, 10:55

As a buyer, I would be concerned too. Once talented micro artists stop producing or pull out and go to much more expensive traditional stock outlets, the abundance of cheap high quality images will dry up.

My suggestion would be to support fair trade sites like Stockfresh, Warmpicture, and artist's individual websites. The more buyers go to the sites that support artists, the more likely it is that the artists can keep producing top quality imagery.

BTW, Kudos to you, as a buyer, for being aware of the situation and trying to do something positive about it.

Are you and Chris/gyllens a tag team now for spam. How do I get into your private club on warmpic. Tell the truth how much do you sell on warmpic? stockfresh is also private club. You and your best bud Lager are fun to watch.

cthoman · « **Reply #27 on:** August 29, 2012, 18:09 »

Quote from: EmberMike on August 29, 2012, 14:42

Quote from: cthoman on August 29, 2012, 13:54
IS and SS are around $20 for high res files, so I'd put that closer to where the market is or should be. But, the market can probably bear higher prices than that. I'm not sure where the sweet spot is, but I'd put $10 at the minimum...

But we're only getting a small percentage for those sales. Higher prices like that discourage some buyers from buying more often, and the contributor walks away with less than they would for a high-res or vector sale at SF. $20 at istock gets someone a large image and puts $3.40 in an independent artist's pocket. $20 at SF buys 2 of the same size image and puts $10 in the artist's pocket. Why would you want $3.40 instead of $10, in a deal where the buyers gets more and is likely happier in the end and will buy more often?

I'm not sure what your point is. I don't think SS or IS are fair paying agencies either. Maybe my definition is too strict for what I think is fair, but I just don't find that most agencies are set up for the success of their contributors (especially long term).

djpadavona · « **Reply #28 on:** August 29, 2012, 18:28 »

Quote from: sjlocke on August 29, 2012, 13:44

Quote from: gostwyck on August 29, 2012, 13:25
From the buyers perspective microstock has never been healthier. Your choice of images has never been greater and you've never had more avenues or price points from which to choose. Agencies like IS, FT and DT have actually been reducing some prices of late, presumeably in reaction to customer resistance.

Right. So, I'm not seeing what the OP is "worried" about.

My assumption is that the worry is related to the amount of consternation among contributors over commission cuts, falling earnings, and the perceived unfair treatment from agencies. Enough disappointment may drive a lot of talent away from microstock, and hence the pool of high quality images for buyers gets a little shallower.

Also, for all we know gyllens is a fellow artist (such as a web or graphic designer). Artists stick together, as we often face the same plights.

EmberMike · « **Reply #29 on:** August 29, 2012, 20:47 »

Quote from: cthoman on August 29, 2012, 18:09

I'm not sure what your point is. I don't think SS or IS are fair paying agencies either. Maybe my definition is too strict for what I think is fair, but I just don't find that most agencies are set up for the success of their contributors (especially long term).

I think I get what you're talking about. I think I'd like your definition of "fair", and in a perfect world there would be plenty of agencies around who operate under those fair conditions.

I guess I just look at "fair" as something that is more attainable given where we are and how far we can realistically go from here. When I say that I think the SF pricing scheme is fair, I mean under the current state and conditions of the market, and what I think the current market will bear.

If you don't mind me saying so, I think that your definition of fair is something that might only ever possibly exist a long time from now, if ever, and hoping to see something like that become a reality is probably nothing more than wishful thinking.

And I say that based on observations of the market, particularly istock who have been steadily raising prices and are now seemingly at a point where they've gone too high for the market to bear. It's almost impossible to imagine how any company could reach similar pricing levels while still offering a fair percentage to contributors.

I view SF as the best deal on the table, and probably the best deal we'll ever be offered by any new or current company that can actually drum up some sales in the foreseeable future. I wish things were different. I wish we could get that $20 price point with any sort of decent enough sales volume to make it sustainable and a decent enough percentage for us. But so far, it's not happening, not even at SS where they have no trouble with getting enough buyers, but they have yet to have much success with that $20 single image pricing. Don't know about you but I'm only seeing about a dozen of those per month. Definitely no where near enough to make me think that option is catching on with buyers.

I guess my point is that fair is one thing, realistically fair is another, and I think SF is the closest thing to fair that we've got right now that can realistically succeed.

ShadySue · « **Reply #30 on:** August 29, 2012, 20:55 »

Quote from: EmberMike on August 29, 2012, 12:34

I don't think someone should have to pay $10 for a 350x350px jpg.

Cheap at the price! It could stay on the front page of their website for years, especially if they incorporate them into a header banner. I've revisited several of my found in-uses, and a couple of years later, there they still are.
Equally, I guess its true that they could be there today, gone tomorrow.

cthoman · « **Reply #31 on:** August 29, 2012, 21:22 »

Quote from: EmberMike on August 29, 2012, 20:47

I guess my point is that fair is one thing, realistically fair is another, and I think SF is the closest thing to fair that we've got right now that can realistically succeed.

I actually think they are pretty far from it. I see them as, at best, 123RF in the making. The $10 for high res isn't horrible, but when you add in subs and cheap rasters, you get severely undercut. Like I said, you average out with $1 or $2 RPD (which means you have to sell large quantities to make money). I know that model is fairly prevalent in micro, but that is why you see people stop uploading or leaving micro entirely. The money just isn't there.

I think my ideal agency would have been iStock (circa 2009-2010) that paid 50%. That seems like what micro should be, but that isn't happening. Plus, I add in that my own site being extremely competitive (for my earnings) with minimal sales, and it quickly paints a picture of getting ripped off by these sites.

EmberMike · « **Reply #32 on:** August 29, 2012, 21:49 »

Quote from: cthoman on August 29, 2012, 21:22

I actually think they are pretty far from it. I see them as, at best, 123RF in the making. The $10 for high res isn't horrible, but when you add in subs and cheap rasters, you get severely undercut. Like I said, you average out with $1 or $2 RPD (which means you have to sell large quantities to make money). I know that model is fairly prevalent in micro, but that is why you see people stop uploading or leaving micro entirely. The money just isn't there...

I don't consider all DLs equal, which I think will probably always be a sticking point for you and me. But even if I did expect a high RPD even for small JPGs, I'm getting that at SF. My average RPD over the last few months is $3.80, including subs (although I don't get more than a few subs per month).

And like I said, I'm not concerned much about small JPG sales, so really the way I see it, I'm getting $5 per vector sale which is really what I'm after anyway, and I'm pretty happy with that.

So what's the alternative? Especially for vectors, as far as I know there's not a whole lot of options out there beyond microstock. I know you work on your own site, and try to stick with sites that have higher prices. But there's just not much else out there for us.

HerMajesty · « **Reply #33 on:** August 30, 2012, 03:00 »

Quote from: EmberMike on August 29, 2012, 20:47

I view SF as the best deal on the table, and probably the best deal we'll ever be offered by any new or current company that can actually drum up some sales in the foreseeable future.

I could name a few places that give 50-60% and allow you to set your own prices. I think the 'drum up some sales' part is crucial here.

I also sell 3d models and there is a site that charges nothing and you receive 100% from any sale (www.digitalelements.be if anyone is interested). Well ... 100% from 0 is still 0.

heywoody · « **Reply #34 on:** August 30, 2012, 03:35 »

Quote from: Mopic on August 30, 2012, 03:00

Quote from: EmberMike on August 29, 2012, 20:47
I view SF as the best deal on the table, and probably the best deal we'll ever be offered by any new or current company that can actually drum up some sales in the foreseeable future.

I could name a few places that give 50-60% and allow you to set your own prices. I think the 'drum up some sales' part is crucial here.

I also sell 3d models and there is a site that charges nothing and you receive 100% from any sale (www.digitalelements.be if anyone is interested). Well ... 100% from 0 is still 0.

Isn’t this the problem really? Small % of high volume is usually better than big % of low volume or 100% of nada. 15% of sales on 30 images at IS makes more than 50% of 300 files on 123. There is no “fair” in this game, sites just take different approaches to maximising profit and the “best” sites are the one that return the biggest revenue per image.

RacePhoto · « **Reply #35 on:** August 30, 2012, 09:38 »

Quote from: steheap on August 29, 2012, 10:50

You could always go to Warmpicture.com: http://www.warmpicture.com/ - that is where the happy contributors are these days!!

Steve

I'd like to join Warmpics as a contributor, how do I do that?

And where are they ranked on the chart on the right?

lisafx · « **Reply #36 on:** August 30, 2012, 11:36 »

Quote from: Milinz on August 29, 2012, 18:08

Quote from: lisafx on August 29, 2012, 10:55
As a buyer, I would be concerned too. Once talented micro artists stop producing or pull out and go to much more expensive traditional stock outlets, the abundance of cheap high quality images will dry up.

My suggestion would be to support fair trade sites like Stockfresh, Warmpicture, and artist's individual websites. The more buyers go to the sites that support artists, the more likely it is that the artists can keep producing top quality imagery.

BTW, Kudos to you, as a buyer, for being aware of the situation and trying to do something positive about it.

Are you and Chris/gyllens a tag team now for spam. How do I get into your private club on warmpic. Tell the truth how much do you sell on warmpic? stockfresh is also private club. You and your best bud Lager are fun to watch.

What a ridiculous post. I have no idea who the OP is, and if it is Christian, that's news to me. I took the post at face value and assumed it was actually a concerned buyer. If that's not the case, then it's on him/her for lying, not me for believing it.

I'm not sure why you think I have any control over who gets into Stockfresh, Warmpicture, or any other agency. I submit and take my chances just like everyone else. Maybe if your portfolio was any good you wouldn't have to have such a giant chip on your shoulder.

EmberMike · « **Reply #37 on:** August 30, 2012, 12:02 »

Quote from: Milinz on August 29, 2012, 18:08

Are you and Chris/gyllens a tag team now for spam. How do I get into your private club on warmpic. Tell the truth how much do you sell on warmpic? stockfresh is also private club. You and your best bud Lager are fun to watch.

Since when is it spam to tell people which companies we like?

Batman · « **Reply #38 on:** August 30, 2012, 18:31 »

Quote from: EmberMike on August 30, 2012, 12:02

Quote from: Milinz on August 29, 2012, 18:08
Are you and Chris/gyllens a tag team now for spam. How do I get into your private club on warmpic. Tell the truth how much do you sell on warmpic? stockfresh is also private club. You and your best bud Lager are fun to watch.

Since when is it spam to tell people which companies we like?

How do I join warmpics so I can like then to?

djpadavona · « **Reply #39 on:** August 30, 2012, 19:20 »

Quote from: RacePhoto on August 30, 2012, 09:38

I'd like to join Warmpics as a contributor, how do I do that?

Post a link to your portfolios in this thread and we can take a look.

Poncke · « **Reply #40 on:** August 31, 2012, 05:23 »

Quote from: djpadavona on August 30, 2012, 19:20

Quote from: RacePhoto on August 30, 2012, 09:38
I'd like to join Warmpics as a contributor, how do I do that?

Post a link to your portfolios in this thread and we can take a look.

Why does that needs to happen in public? Why that approach? Why not do that off the boards in a decent professional manner?

gyllens · « **Reply #41 on:** August 31, 2012, 05:44 »

Quote from: Poncke on August 31, 2012, 05:23

Quote from: djpadavona on August 30, 2012, 19:20
Quote from: RacePhoto on August 30, 2012, 09:38
I'd like to join Warmpics as a contributor, how do I do that?

Post a link to your portfolios in this thread and we can take a look.

Why does that needs to happen in public? Why that approach? Why not do that off the boards in a decent professional manner?

Jealousy and animosity does not help here, let your pictures do the talking.

Poncke · « **Reply #42 on:** August 31, 2012, 05:50 »

Quote from: gyllens on August 31, 2012, 05:44

Quote from: Poncke on August 31, 2012, 05:23
Quote from: djpadavona on August 30, 2012, 19:20
Quote from: RacePhoto on August 30, 2012, 09:38
I'd like to join Warmpics as a contributor, how do I do that?

Post a link to your portfolios in this thread and we can take a look.

Why does that needs to happen in public? Why that approach? Why not do that off the boards in a decent professional manner?

Jealousy and animosity does not help here, let your pictures do the talking.

Your original reply was a bit different, a bit more insulting, and for some reason my quote of your reply got deleted and you changed your post. Very strange. Anyoo, I can assure you I am not jealous, I do have enough knowledge but what you see is not what you get, and you are anonymous as well.

Why does someone have to post a link in a public forum so that everyone can have a look if its good enough to join an agency? Which agency does that? Why cant that be done in a private manner? Why would you put a potential contributor on the spot like that? Or is that the new fresh approach everybody is craving for?

ShadySue · « **Reply #43 on:** August 31, 2012, 05:52 »

Quote from: gyllens on August 31, 2012, 05:44

Quote from: Poncke on August 31, 2012, 05:23
Quote from: djpadavona on August 30, 2012, 19:20
Quote from: RacePhoto on August 30, 2012, 09:38
I'd like to join Warmpics as a contributor, how do I do that?

Post a link to your portfolios in this thread and we can take a look.

Why does that needs to happen in public? Why that approach? Why not do that off the boards in a decent professional manner?

Jealousy and animosity does not help here, let your pictures do the talking.

Say what?

leaf · « **Reply #44 on:** August 31, 2012, 05:53 »

Quote from: Poncke on August 31, 2012, 05:50

Your original reply was a bit different, a bit more insulting, and for some reason my quote of your reply got deleted and you changed your post. Very strange. Anyoo, I can assure you I am not jealous, I do have enough knowledge but what you see is not what you get, and you are anoymous as well.

That's because the original post was removed (moderated) and while the post was being moderated you replied so your reply was removed as well.

Poncke · « **Reply #45 on:** August 31, 2012, 05:54 »

Quote from: leaf on August 31, 2012, 05:53

Quote from: Poncke on August 31, 2012, 05:50

Your original reply was a bit different, a bit more insulting, and for some reason my quote of your reply got deleted and you changed your post. Very strange. Anyoo, I can assure you I am not jealous, I do have enough knowledge but what you see is not what you get, and you are anoymous as well.

That's because the original post was removed (moderated) and while the post was being moderated you replied so your reply was removed as well.

Fair enough. Thanks for letting me know.

djpadavona · « **Reply #46 on:** August 31, 2012, 07:40 »

I'm not trying to publicly embarrass anyone. I simply requested he post a link to his portfolio since he seemed to suggest that he wanted to be part of Warmpicture. Maybe I misinterpreted. You are free to do the same.

Poncke · « **Reply #47 on:** August 31, 2012, 07:48 »

Quote from: djpadavona on August 31, 2012, 07:40

I'm not trying to publicly embarrass anyone. I simply requested he post a link to his portfolio since he seemed to suggest that he wanted to be part of Warmpicture. Maybe I misinterpreted. You are free to do the same.

Dan, I know you didnt mean to do that. I just found it a strange request.

I am not ready for the abuse yet, so I will refrain from posting my portfolio. I can take critique, but to be very honest, I am afraid that I will be completely butchered here and I am not ready for that.

ShadySue · « **Reply #48 on:** August 31, 2012, 07:49 »

Quote from: djpadavona on August 31, 2012, 07:40

I'm not trying to publicly embarrass anyone. I simply requested he post a link to his portfolio since he seemed to suggest that he wanted to be part of Warmpicture. Maybe I misinterpreted. You are free to do the same.

Some people have reasons for choosing to be anonymous on here, so you can see that someone who had so chosen wouldn't necessarily welcome an invite to post their port on an open group.

HerMajesty · « **Reply #49 on:** August 31, 2012, 07:54 »

Quote from: djpadavona on August 31, 2012, 07:40

I'm not trying to publicly embarrass anyone. I simply requested he post a link to his portfolio since he seemed to suggest that he wanted to be part of Warmpicture. Maybe I misinterpreted. You are free to do the same.

Just out of curiosity ... is this the official way to get accepted ? Posting links in a forum? I find it quite unusual. I would expect a good old e-mail with a link would do the trick.

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Author Topic: getting worried! (Read 15408 times)

cathyslife

Milinz

cthoman

djpadavona

EmberMike

ShadySue

cthoman

EmberMike

HerMajesty

heywoody

RacePhoto

lisafx

EmberMike

Batman

djpadavona

Poncke

gyllens

Poncke

ShadySue

leaf

Poncke

djpadavona

Poncke

ShadySue

HerMajesty

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