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Author Topic: Getty offers low prices for smaller files on all RM/RF  (Read 13442 times)

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« on: August 07, 2009, 14:11 »
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 Hi All,

 Yesterday Getty released that they will be offering all their content at incredibly lower prices for new web size uses. They added two new smaller sizes to their customers for all their RM and RF Macro collections. This has added an entirely new level of quality and quantity at a very low price. Lots of changes taking place.

Best,
Jonathan


« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2009, 14:15 »
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oh don't stop there Mr. Ross.
how about giving us your opinion on this move.
you have some people who are always interested in what you consider...

the table's yours, .. go ahead !  ;)

zymmetricaldotcom

« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2009, 14:16 »
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If anyone can tender a reason why "web" should mean "cheaper" i'm all ears. Don't make no sense at all to me.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2009, 18:21 by zymmetrical »

Squat

  • If you think you know, you know squat
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2009, 14:49 »
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Good post Keith.

The article reminds me once again that the business is going to blazes. It's not the first time people like named in the article are given a rotten deal. Too many to mention. Suffice to say, that going back to the 80s when I was a greenhorn photojournalist graduate straight out of college, I was , as hopeless a photographer as I was, still making a lot more money stringing for news work,etc.. The older pros making far more money than me, naturally.
Point being, today, none of us are even getting close to what we make , with our 20 odd years experience, plus our techniques well -honed.
Why? all the business has gone to get images for nothing or almost next to nothing.
I get editors telling me that I could contribute for free if I wanted the photo credit and publicity.  Lol, why would I need to do that? If I were that greenhorn kid straight out photo college, maybe. But even then, at that time, I never did an assignment for free. Today, well, it's another story.
Any tom, dick and mary... or pierre, jacques and henri, as we call it here,
will quickly replace you . Not because their images are better, but because
they will do the job for free.

We really cannot turn back time. We cannot even try to reset the mechanism.
I think it's all broken. Unless a great upheaval happens, to rebalance the equilibrium of photographers worth, I doubt anything will happen except that the earnings are going to be far less than it was 20 years ago.

Simply because anyone can spot a DSLR to do the job . Shoot a better images, better standard? What standard, fgs!  Most of the editors haven't the faintest idea what the standard is , either.

Submit and shut up. I guess that would be the only thing left.
Unless someone else has a better idea?
I am all ears too...

« Last Edit: August 07, 2009, 14:51 by Squat »

« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2009, 17:25 »
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 I haven't had time to really soak it in so I have stayed pretty neutral so far. I know it is going to effect both markets but I can't really say which way yet. I was a bit surprised by the announcement.

Jonathan

« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2009, 23:50 »
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Funny two days ago I was looking for a photo of overwegith (not obese)
but cute sexy girls wearing plain shirts and I couldn't find anything on any microstock place..to save my life..so I was looking at Getty....

So today that means....photos are cheaper there......

I went to the site....and they are not only offering images at such low price,

not only that..but with the Biggest benefit of alll...

unlike most Microstock all their images come with indemnification ....

I know this is a big thing with big ad agencies and such because I worked with
some before....It is a requirement...

So, now, this is some serious competition with microstock places...

with the affiliate marketing bringing more people, flooding the market with more images..good and bad....now with even more Giants competitors

what else is left?

whats your plan B besides being a microstock photog or artist?




« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2009, 00:07 »
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If anyone can tender a reason why "web" should mean "cheaper" i'm all ears. Don't make no sense at all to me.

"Web" doesn't mean cheaper.  "Smaller" means cheaper.  It looks like Getty and iStock are meeting in the middle, that's all.

« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2009, 02:44 »
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If anyone can tender a reason why "web" should mean "cheaper" i'm all ears. Don't make no sense at all to me.
What do you need to supply for web use, a Medium resolution image the average width 400-500px and the largest web use would be 900px wide.

Providing the licence says web use then I cannot see a problem with limited use and a lower price point.

David   

« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2009, 03:00 »
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Measuring the value of an image by its size seems pretty strange to me. The Mona Lisa is fairly small, as far as paintings go.

« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2009, 03:34 »
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The point that many miss is the usage, you read about web or blog use and the comments tend to say that a website is visited by millions, or a blog is read millions of times, which is not often the case average websites and blogs may get from tens to a few hundred visits, I have 4 websites and they average 250 visitors a month each, many of them are returning visitors.

I would say I am an average blogger that might use small images in their blog posts, I purchase and licence these through Istock because all I need is an xsmall image medium resolution with limited use and Istock is the best value for my money, and I gladly pay 1 credit and may use more than one image in a single post, I will normally use the image only the once to catch the readers eye and illustrate a point, despite the doom and gloom mongers opinions, I am not going to print it, make a poster, presentation or a flyer, and with 5 - 6 images in a blog post it can cost me $10, I might spend $250 in a year to illustrate a point in a blog or article, but would I as a web image user pay more, I think not and I would look for free images instead or purchased RF image DVD or CD collections, as the web post could only get read 20-100 times, my average is about only 50 times, and it is unlikely the average reader will snatch the image, but like in all walks of life the focus will be on those that might abuse something rather than the majority that do not.

As I have written many times now I.M.H.O. the biggest market still to be catered for is web sized image users, to capture this market requires low price points and easy access, the price points on the microsites are about right but the access to using these images is not, as they are not Pay-as-you-go if I need a 1 credit image I may have to buy 10 for 14 so a sale might be lost if I can do without, but we can leave that for another topic.
  
Back to Getty, this is a very wise move as you need to look at current markets and growth, there is no room to move or grow in the current markets, a lot of the Getty customers will have websites and might think about cutting costs and the microsite to source images, if Getty can retain the existing Customers and bring in new Customers for the websize images then it is not a negative move.

David
« Last Edit: August 08, 2009, 03:59 by Adeptris »

« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2009, 05:46 »
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RF  170 px  $5 / $10     280 px   $15 / $25   413 px  $35 / $49
Rights-managed same sizes $15   $35 $49
Rights-managed images are licensed for a defined scope of usage that may include restrictions on territory, industry, duration, placement or print run.   

sounds * close to microstock to me, I wonder what their contributors think? I can imagine those professionals who come give us a rant from time to time being ecsatatic with this.  I can't say I'd be impressed with what 20-30% of a $15 sale that had restrictions on further usage, sort of kills the arguments in favor selling images as rm doesnt it??

Question is will other macros follow suit? (no idea if the go in for price wars)

PaulieWalnuts

  • We Have Exciting News For You
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2009, 06:38 »
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This is not just about web but stuff like email and mobile device usage.

http://www.gettyimages.com/creative/frontdoor/WebAndMobileImages

Getty is seeing this as an opportunity for new revenue. Only time will tell if this creates new revenue or cannibalizes existing sales.

« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2009, 06:48 »
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This is not just about web but stuff like email and mobile device usage.
<...
>...
Getty is seeing this as an opportunity for new revenue. Only time will tell if this creates new revenue or cannibalizes existing sales.

Thanks for the link I have shortened and tweeted it, using the laptop when the forum links or images are to long I get annoying scroll bars!

http://bit.ly/uhEsG

David.


PaulieWalnuts

  • We Have Exciting News For You
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2009, 06:58 »
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What's your laptop resolution? 640x480?  ;D

PaulieWalnuts

  • We Have Exciting News For You
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2009, 07:06 »
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whats your plan B besides being a microstock photog or artist?


Contribute to Getty? Keep my day job?  ;)

« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2009, 07:10 »
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What's your laptop resolution? 640x480?  ;D

The problem is I design software and to do it right I design at 1024 x 768, as it is used not only on different PC's but on dumb terminals, and it could be on really old kit in some countries, so all my testing of the GUI has to be done at 1024 x 768.

Back to Getty, I just had a try and picked up an RM image, selected a web use size and single website, it then asks 'In which territories will the image appear?' what a silly question on an intranet I could say which territories but not on the world wide web, the clue is in the name 'World'.

David  ::)  
« Last Edit: August 08, 2009, 07:36 by Adeptris »

zymmetricaldotcom

« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2009, 07:28 »
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Well it's not how big it is, it's how you use it. :)    Maybe HTML5 will include some kind of new image format that can track views natively without Javascript. Embed your hashed ID into the image directly, if it's not correct image won't display.  DRM for pics.  Regional restrictions could also be enforced.    That is, until some hacker from Scandinavia cracks the encoding and it all is for nothing. :)


« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2009, 07:37 »
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You're making a basic argument about RM vs. RF, not Getty selling at a smaller size or anything.

« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2009, 11:06 »
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You're making a basic argument about RM vs. RF, not Getty selling at a smaller size or anything.
I welcome Getty trying different things, the target is more mobile than website use from the sizes.
RF  170 px  $5 / $10, mobile phone more than website, (same size as an un-watermarked Alamy thumbnail)
RF  280 px   $15 / $25, and RF  413 px  $35 / $49, Website use but very limited, I would look for 415px - 500px wide, $2-4$ Istock image for a website, blog or article, cannot see the $15 - $49 added value from Getty,  and I would use a 900px wide as a website header element.

The prices might be nice for existing Getty business customers, but I cannot see the prices attracting many 'new customers', the positive is Getty leads and the other microstock and midstock watch and might push up the prices using Getty prices as justification.

David  ;D  

« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2009, 14:20 »
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Measuring the value of an image by its size seems pretty strange to me. The Mona Lisa is fairly small, as far as paintings go.
I don't think the comparison is adequate, as certainly a larger painting by Leonardo would have costed more, as it would have meant more work.  Sizes in stock photography are not related to amount of work.

In RF world, size limits usage.  A web-size image won't make a poster or a full page in a magazine.  In RM world, it all depends on the usage negotiated.  The buyer may receive a 20MPix file, but if he purchased it for a 1/4th inner page in a book, this is only what he can do it (legally).

zymmetricaldotcom

« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2009, 14:45 »
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Size doesn't limit usage in the digital world. Yahoo.com could license a web size, and throw it on their homepage, and get millions of views a day on it. That's the current disconnect.   This fantasy that there's so many 'bloggers' in the world constantly licensing stock images (when a CC image usually will do to illustrate their point, or it's editorial) needs to be taken down a notch - website designs, website templates & other purely commercial uses are a huge deal in digital.

Look at the top blogs (like here: http://technorati.com/pop/blogs/ ) and examine the pics and if they are stock-y and don't have credits, Tineye them to find the source. It really doesn't seem like blogs are as big of a deal as is constantly marketed. The real market is people who are turning direct profits off the images, such as web template designers or B2C usages.    

I guess so long as people chase short term sales volume vs. long term market health it's going to take a while for this to sink in. Traditional print licensing of images can only be measured in vague, Nielsen-rating type ways which generalize "eyes on the image" quantities.  Digital should be exact since the data is there in 1s and 0s.  

Edit** I don't claim to know the answer for this issue, that's for example why we just don't do a "web size" at Zymm.  If you're stuck in the woods and don't know where to go, just stay put. :)       I think there can be no real conclusion for the imbalance unless some kind of digital RM system is applied.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2009, 15:00 by zymmetrical »

« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2009, 15:30 »
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Thanks for the headsup Jonathan, and for posting the actual prices Phil.  Yes, these certainly do seem like they are heading toward micro prices.

I can't see how Getty has a whole lot of choice.  Adapt or die.  I have been reading predictions that Macro prices would head south to compete with micro for years and this seems to prove those predictions right.

I don't upsize much, but I do get the photo mags with the ads for Blow Up and Genuine Fractals.   How good are these programs and how much can they uprez and retain acceptable quality?

Is there a danger of these small images being bought on the cheap, uprezzed, and taking sales that might have gone to larger sizes?

I doubt most Getty photographers will be happy about this at all.  If prices continue to drop in macro then more macro photographers will probably start submitting micro too.  Which of course means increased competition for us. 

Reminds me of a quote from Norm Petersen on Cheers:  "It's a dog eat dog world, and I'm wearing Milk-Bone underwear". 

« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2009, 01:04 »
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<..
>..
Look at the top blogs (like here: http://technorati.com/pop/blogs/ ) and examine the pics and if they are stock-y and don't have credits, Tineye them to find the source. It really doesn't seem like blogs are as big of a deal as is constantly marketed. The real market is people who are turning direct profits off the images, such as web template designers or B2C usages.    
>..
<..
Edit** I don't claim to know the answer for this issue, that's for example why we just don't do a "web size" at Zymm.  If you're stuck in the woods and don't know where to go, just stay put. :)       I think there can be no real conclusion for the imbalance unless some kind of digital RM system is applied.

I research differently, looking at many blogs I find that most could be enhanced by a microstock image, the key problems as I see it to grab a slice of this market is the lack of editorial images in microstock and easy delivery.

Thinking outside the box, editorial image use has been much overlooked, the focus has been to saturate the market with trendy commercial images, the original thinking about basic editorial was magazines and newpapers, but things have moved on where anyone can have an editorial presence online, via a website, blog or contributing articles, these people are not serviced well with microstock priced editorial content, it is not there is no demand but there is no supply, Alamy have nearly 17 million images most of these are editorial, where is the microstock alternative?
  
Looking at things like business blogs where there are a few microstock images of server farms, business people, stock graphs, concept images for growth etc:, but what if I was an independent blogger writing an editorial article on the credit crunch and I needed an editorial shot of a banks frontage or HQ building where can I get one (spot size on Alamy ouch!), or if I was writing about the recession and the motor industry, where do I get the suitable editorial blog size images, in the small quantity and at a price point I want?

Example writing a banking editorial article about RBS like this one:
1. Google: Search Editorial Microstock: Yay, Shutterstock & Alamy
2. Yay Micro: search RBS No images
3. ShutterStock: search RBS images but no Bank
4. Alamy: 60 RF or 90 RM
5. Getty: Not available at new mobile or web use, calculator $49

So not being a business but an independent or personal blogger, I have to write the article as plain text and a photographer has missed a sale, just because I cannot get a suitable image as limited use for a blog article at a reasonable enough price, the question is why not?  
 
The image in that article looks like a stock image, but TinEye returned nothing.
 
Travel blogs require images of people and places, airline companies, all the others like lifestyle, environment, flowers and plants, animals, sports, where independent people write very informative articles and blogs on almost every subject but quite often they are just flat text and lack an eye catching image to attract and hold the reader, Getty look to have seen the potential of this market, will the prices be attractive enough for information providers and non business writers, and where is the microstock alternative?.

Back to Getty, generally delivery to or the label 'mobile phone use' would cause me more concern than the blog sizes, if one of my daughters or grandchildren could grap a nice RF/RM 'mobile screensaver' for $5-$10, and yes I know it says 'Mobile apps and sites' and the licence does not cover being used as a mobile screensaver, but from what I know of them they would not read or understand the T&C's, the image would just be downloaded to one phone and then be sent to a number of thier family and friends phones within minutes, then on to a number of thier friends friends and Tineye will not find these infringements.

David      
« Last Edit: August 09, 2009, 03:00 by Adeptris »

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2009, 06:59 »
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Travel blogs require images of people and places, airline companies, all the others like lifestyle, environment, flowers and plants, animals, sports, where independent people write very informative articles and blogs on almost every subject but quite often they are just flat text and lack an eye catching image to attract and hold the reader, Getty look to have seen the potential of this market, will the prices be attractive enough for information providers and non business writers, and where is the microstock alternative?.
   

From that list, you should be able to find easily on microstock: people and places, lifestyle, environment, flowers and plants, animals and sports, though not big-name athletes.
Im guessing that the reason that most micros haven't gone in for editorial is that hassle/time/expense which would be involved in monitoring usage. It's not as though it hasn't been begged for many times on the iStock forums, for one.
From a contributer's pov, I've noticed that it's really not worthwhile to upload unusual species or places on iStock (can't speak for anywhere else). You get one or two sales, maybe five at best. So now I'm uploading these to Macro, where just one sale might return more than the file would ever get on micro. Wearing my wildlife charity newsletter editor's hat, that's unfortunate, but that's the commercial truth.
You see requests on iStock for e.g. an unusual breed of dog. Half a dozen people rush out and shoot said dog, one image may, or may not, be bought (sometimes I think these posts are just chain-pulls) and the other images usually languish forever.

« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2009, 07:59 »
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From that list, you should be able to find easily on microstock: people and places, lifestyle, environment, flowers and plants, animals and sports, though not big-name athletes.
<...
>...
Im guessing that the reason that most micros haven't gone in for editorial is that hassle/time/expense which would be involved in monitoring usage. It's not as though it hasn't been begged for many times on the iStock forums, for one.
<...
>...
For an editorial blog I would want the holiday shots of large crowds of people on holiday or at events, a beach full of holiday makers, an airport queue,  a festival or carnival, for lifestyle activities like a family vist to an event natural and 'wearing the Nike trainers', sports the same clothing and events, all these would not have a release for the people or property, so I would not find them on the microsites only empty places and small intimate groups of people released shots wearing plain cloths with no logo's.

Monitoring usage is a matter of license conditions, there are limitations on RF so what is the difference with RM, the onus is on the person using the image, providing it is clearly licensed for editorial use only, there should be no problem.

I do think with this move from Getty you will see microsites move to include editorial content, as there are no new markets to exploit.

David  ;)
« Last Edit: August 10, 2009, 08:02 by Adeptris »


 

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