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Author Topic: How cheap can you get!!??  (Read 13390 times)

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lisafx

« on: July 15, 2010, 12:59 »
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Some people really amaze me with how cheap they are.  The sense of entitlement and wanting everything for free!  I was contacted yesterday by someone on istock with the following request:

Hi Lisa-

We are doing presentations on different medical professions and I was wondering if I could have your permission to use your istockphotos in my powerpoint presentation that only my classmates and instructor will see in class.  We are only allowed to use non-copyrighted photos or receive written permission from the creator.

I would also give you due credit under each picture.  Your pictures are fantastic!


To which I replied:  

Hi Jessica,

First off, I'm so glad you like the photos!
It sounds like the use you have in mind is covered by Istocks license, so I would be fine with it. Just buy the image on Istock and you should be good to go. :)
If you need additional permission from me I will be happy to give it. Of course I still retain the copyrights...

Hope that helps. Thanks again!

Lisa


Oh, the reason I was asking for your written permission to use the photos is because I am a poor student and cannot afford to buy the pictures just to use for the presentation.  I was just going to save the images as is and use them with your permission.



Oh, I misunderstood.  Then the answer is no.  I can't give permission for that.   It's pretty hard to believe that anyone can't afford $1 per photo (for XS size).  

I am a FT professional stock photographer.  I support my family with my earnings.  

That medical shoot cost me several hundred dollars in models, location fees, props, and equipment,  and countless hours of planning, preparation, shooting, editing, keywording, etc.  There's a reason they aren't free.

Best of luck with your project.  Hope you will rethink and consider that maybe it's worth $10 or so to have some quality professional images.

Lisa


I have to say, I am really PO'd about this.  Probably she will go ahead and use the images without my permission.  

Can someone explain to me how ANYONE is so broke they "can't afford" microstock prices???  Seriously, wouldn't XS work for a college powerpoint project?  How about skipping that next latte or six pack!   ::)

Is there any rule on Istock or the other micros against members soliciting other members for free photos?
« Last Edit: July 15, 2010, 13:01 by lisafx »


« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2010, 13:06 »
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this is really strange, it looks like a exam/test.. I guess seeing if you go for free or not (somebody you know or just a prank) dont know, but you made up very clear :)

vonkara

« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2010, 13:09 »
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Once I had someone who saw my youtube videos, kindly asking me how to clone out the Istock logos. The conversation we had was very similar to yours Lisa, but more naive

« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2010, 13:09 »
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I also got a request like that. It was an environmental organization that wanted to use my illustrations on their printed material. And the responsable for their media asked me to contribute with the environment by giving away my images for free. I replied asking her if she worked for free for that organization... I got no answer for that...

« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2010, 13:15 »
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You this all the time on Flickr. But from people with cash in pocket. For the short while I've been there I've been contacted by guide book companies, design firms etc.

« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2010, 13:16 »
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Data wants to be free.  You're repressing the data!

« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2010, 13:27 »
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You mean you don't get at least one of these a month? I thought request for free stuff was pretty common. I always just politely refuse.

« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2010, 13:28 »
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I can see why you are po'd. I can't believe people have the gall to ask for stuff for free. I'm sure an XS would work ok.

« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2010, 13:34 »
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well, at least she has asked.

i'm sure a lot of our images been used for free without our acknowledge whatsoever.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2010, 13:37 by SIFD »

« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2010, 13:35 »
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I wouldn't necessarily believe them either. Lots of people will cheerfully lie when attempting to blag free stuff just for . of it. Ignore them.

« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2010, 13:37 »
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Kudos for the school though for not hiding behind the "fair use" doctrine that is so often abused.

« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2010, 13:41 »
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I replied asking her if she worked for free for that organization... I got no answer for that...

Genius. LOL.

« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2010, 13:43 »
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Many people ask because they don't know how to remove the logos (logos in a presentation look cheap) or want bigger sizes.

lisafx

« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2010, 13:49 »
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... I replied asking her if she worked for free for that organization... I got no answer for that...

^^ Perfect!

Thanks for the replies.  I hadn't known this was so common to get freebie requests.  I have had a few before, but they were up front about it.  This one was really backhanded, IMO.  Didn't reveal she wanted free until she absolutely HAD to. 

Glad to know I am in good company :)

BTW, I am sure SIFD is right and people use them for free all the time.  The only reason this girl asked is because her teacher insisted.  Good for him/her!! 

« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2010, 14:10 »
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To be honest, I'm pleasantly surprised that she wrote to you. I can't imagine the same situation here. Unfortunately, I doubt that teacher here would say to students they have to use only images with a permission of a photographer. If she doesn't lie, she probably thinks you earn so much, that you don't really care for those few images. She is maybe a mid school student....I mean just a kid...again, if she doesn't lie.

« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2010, 15:22 »
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I'm also suprised that she actually asked for permission. Her replying "I was just going to save the images as is and use them with your permission" has a sort of naive cheek to it, although annoying. Maybe your last (very well put) reply actually got her thinking...

I teach at university, and I'm suprised what students who complain about having to pay a small amount towards class material for some seminars can afford (there's no tuition). Many of them sit around campus with a MacBook Air, and many of them I never have seen in the same outfit, not to mention the sneakers they wear...

« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2010, 15:35 »
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I teach at university, and I'm suprised what students who complain about having to pay a small amount towards class material for some seminars can afford (there's no tuition). Many of them sit around campus with a MacBook Air, and many of them I never have seen in the same outfit, not to mention the sneakers they wear...

That's true...


lisafx

« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2010, 15:37 »
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I teach at university, and I'm suprised what students who complain about having to pay a small amount towards class material for some seminars can afford (there's no tuition). Many of them sit around campus with a MacBook Air, and many of them I never have seen in the same outfit, not to mention the sneakers they wear...

I suspect your are right.  It is more about perceived value than about what they can actually afford.  I have a college age daughter and she can always find the money for things she really wants....  Worse come to worst she'll ask me. ;)

« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2010, 15:39 »
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Yeah, that's the expression I was trying to find: perceived value! Thanks. :D

lisafx

« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2010, 15:42 »
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^^ My pleasure :)

Of course I am highly insulted that the "perceived value" of my work is nada!!  :P

« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2010, 15:49 »
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^^ My pleasure :)

Of course I am highly insulted that the "perceived value" of my work is nada!!  :P

Lol, Lisa and her sense of humor.

lisafx

« Reply #21 on: July 15, 2010, 15:53 »
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Lol, Lisa and her sense of humor.

You too Ivan ;D

« Reply #22 on: July 15, 2010, 15:54 »
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Of course I am highly insulted that the "perceived value" of my work is nada!!  :P

Only to really, really young, really, really poor students whose teacher only just recently told them what copyright is! A rather small subset of people who stumble into istock.  ;)

« Reply #23 on: July 15, 2010, 21:41 »
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You mean you don't get at least one of these a month? I thought request for free stuff was pretty common. I always just politely refuse.

Usually around once a month, I get contacted by people who see my photos on microstock sites. Their requests usually go like this, "We have seen your work on microstock sites and we are not prepared to pay such nominal fees for such outstanding work, please send us your paypal address so we can give you $100 per image that we use (xs size)".

To which I usually reply...

"I really have an intolerance for this kind of snobbery. I know many people like to buy expensive things, just to show they have money. Please buy my images on the microstock sites, where I am more than happy to receive 20% of the revenue."

« Reply #24 on: July 15, 2010, 21:52 »
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Can't blame the buyers for wanting everything for nothing. The business model was designed and flourished by targeting low profile buyers and all the little people who can't afford to pay professional prices. Doesn't have anything to do with a photographers skill it's purely a result of a decade of micro-marketing. Don't worry this is nothing ... it will get far worse. LOL  ;D

PaulieWalnuts

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« Reply #25 on: July 15, 2010, 21:59 »
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So when the student goes to get a haircut, or groceries, or anywhere else, do they give the poor student routine? Of course not.

How did photography get to a point where the average person feels comfortable asking for photos for free? These people need more replies that will shock them into not asking for such ridiculous things again.

« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2010, 22:18 »
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How did photography get to a point where the average person feels comfortable asking for photos for free? These people need more replies that will shock them into not asking for such ridiculous things again.

the hole is already dug too deep .. traditional respect and value will only be given back when the micro business model takes those two factors into consideration .. which will be never because that would defeat the entire existence of micro in the first place. Now it's up to anybody who wants to strive to be a professional photographer to turn a turd into gold .. which can be done if you strain hard enough.  ;D


« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2010, 00:54 »
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if someone use an image with istockphoto watermark, without removal, it is alright?

like in school's presentation.

« Reply #28 on: July 16, 2010, 04:58 »
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hey when I was at uni/college I didn't have any money to buy photos, I had to spend all my money on beer.

« Reply #29 on: July 16, 2010, 05:14 »
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hey when I was at uni/college I didn't have any money to buy photos, I had to spend all my money on beer.
Same with me, it all went on beer :)  If the choice was a few photos or a beer, I would of been straight down the pub.  I don't think many students will spend money on images for presentations but perhaps they could get some money from the uni/college?  Haven't a few sites tried to do a deal with educational establishments?  I seem to remember FP and alamy doing something.

microstockphoto.co.uk

« Reply #30 on: July 16, 2010, 05:18 »
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hey when I was at uni/college I didn't have any money to buy photos, I had to spend all my money on beer.

same for me - but beer wasn't free, why should photos?

« Reply #31 on: July 16, 2010, 05:36 »
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hey when I was at uni/college I didn't have any money to buy photos, I had to spend all my money on beer.

same for me - but beer wasn't free, why should photos?


well... sometimes beer is free  ;)

« Reply #32 on: July 16, 2010, 06:09 »
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The problem is not poverty or  standard of  students ...
The problem is the devaluation of the labor of others. All of these students know they can not produce on  easy way photos like these, but they are unrealistic enough to say "Oh that is just Photoshop,it doing job for you"...

The student at the sneaky way disparages Lisa's work and effort...
"Poor man" does not ask for a free Porsche or marked clothing, because that is true value for him , but "poor man " will ask for a "worthless" photo because it is considered worthless in his world ,"this is just a click camera and PS, isn't it ?!"...
« Last Edit: July 16, 2010, 06:20 by borg »

« Reply #33 on: July 16, 2010, 06:14 »
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hey when I was at uni/college I didn't have any money to buy photos, I had to spend all my money on beer.

same for me - but beer wasn't free, why should photos?

I wasn't saying photos should be free, I was just saying I had different priorities. :)

« Reply #34 on: July 16, 2010, 06:23 »
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if someone use an image with istockphoto watermark, without removal, it is alright?

like in school's presentation.

No.  Using an image with the watermark is not some sort of advertising based implied license.

« Reply #35 on: July 16, 2010, 06:40 »
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In addition to the low perceived value of photography by some, I think it has to do with students themselves.

Let's just talk about my family (and I don't think they are much different than most)...in my nieces and nephews world...their parents have bought them, for use by them personally...computers, wii games, ipods, sports clothing, big screen tvs, xboxes (because apparently the wiis aren't good enough), weekly shopping sprees and cars. For the most part, they haven't had to do any kind of work to get those things. They have no concept of how hard one has to work to get those things because their parents have not taught them so. Dad and mom will continue to pay for school/college and give a weekly allowance or a credit card so they can continue to buy books, lattes, beer and whatever. And there's no way the student will give up a weeks worth of lattes for their education. Somebody else should pay for it. Like Lisa said in the first post, the sense of entitlement. I find it difficult to blame them when that really is all they know. If you want it, ask for it. In this instance "mom and dad" are anybody who has something they want.

I just don't think some kids have a clue about the value of anything in relation to how hard one must work to get those things and in this instance, buying photos.

It can't be perceived value, because those of us who have been around when stock photos would cost $400 or $500 each know that microstock is a blessing and would never dream of asking for free stuff. Photos for $1, $5 or even $10 each are bargains!

« Reply #36 on: July 16, 2010, 06:50 »
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The problem is not poverty or  standard of  students ...
The problem is the devaluation of the labor of others. All of these students know they can not produce on  easy way photos like these, but they are unrealistic enough to say "Oh that is just Photoshop,it doing job for you"...

The student at the sneaky way disparages Lisa's work and effort...
"Poor man" does not ask for a free Porsche or marked clothing, because that is true value for him , but "poor man " will ask for a "worthless" photo because it is considered worthless in his world ,"this is just a click camera and PS, isn't it ?!"...

I beg to differ.

IMO, the lack of appreciation of the value of our images is due to the fact that these days they are being distributed digitally.

Stupid example, how did the people copy music in the 20s? No CDs (duh), no tapes (yet) so what do you do? Carve your own record out of melted down candles?

Now images, audio and movies are so easy to steal that the authorities don't even have a remote chance of catching anybody. That is what makes the kids to not realize the value of that work - how easy it is to get it for free.

In the 80s you had to march into Blockbuster to get your "free" copy of your favorite movie, together with a good chance of getting caught. Today you just hop on your laptop in the bedroom and download the "Lord of the Rings" trilogy in HD within a couple of hours while doing the dishes.

It's not tangible, you can't touch it, therefore there is almost not link to the value of that work. Additionally anyone can take photos these days with the digital camera revolution so it all becomes so "common". Surely, most people don't understand the efforts that you into good stock imagery, so you're also dealing with that "ignorance" as well.

It surely adds to the problem having Microstock in this world. And most people are stupid (in the sense of having no idea about the industry) and see the prices on the stock sites advertising "starting at 20 Cents per image" . How do you explain this to a kid or anyone who doesn't have 5 minutes of time to listen to you?

There are so many factors coming together it's hard to pin point the biggest or main problem there.


« Reply #37 on: July 16, 2010, 06:53 »
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I agree miss cclapper; i also think students are pretty used to get things for free. Want a song, download it...want a movie, download it....want a game, download it..without seeing the bigger picture behind piracy. Many students probably aren't even really aware it's not ok to do a picture search on google and use whatever you get there in a presentation. In my student days i wasnt different, if this girl is who she claims she is i dont think in her navity she was aware of what she was asking for.

Edit: click_click put it much more eloquent :)

lisafx

« Reply #38 on: July 16, 2010, 08:56 »
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It's probably some combination of the two things - sense of entitlement, as Cathy points out, along with ease of delivery, as Click said. 

As a parent of a college student I wonder if I have done any better.  I have certainly tried to tell her the importance of intellectual property rights, and the value of work (like tipping servers well, etc.), but I haven't cut off her credit card until she finds a job...   

Maybe I should write back to the "poor student" and tell her that her purchase will support the educational expenses (and latte buying habits ) of a fellow student ;)

« Reply #39 on: July 16, 2010, 09:02 »
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As a parent of a college student I wonder if I have done any better.  I have certainly tried to tell her the importance of intellectual property rights, and the value of work (like tipping servers well, etc.), but I haven't cut off her credit card until she finds a job...

I think that you have done better because you have taught your daughter the difference between right and wrong. Helping kids out is one thing...giving them everything and not teaching values is another. And some parents don't teach the values. As for finding a job...that's tough for everyone right now.

lisafx

« Reply #40 on: July 16, 2010, 09:08 »
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As for finding a job...that's tough for everyone right now.

^^Yeah, this is one reason I haven't been too much of a hard-a$$ about it.  But I am thinking I should probably at least make her put more effort into looking for one.  Even that can be a good learning experience.  I hope - as long as she doesn't get too discouraged. 

lisafx

« Reply #41 on: July 16, 2010, 09:11 »
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BTW, the student wrote me back and said that she contacted someone else who was happy to let her use their images for free. 

So all is right with the world.  ::)

« Reply #42 on: July 16, 2010, 09:21 »
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BTW, the student wrote me back and said that she contacted someone else who was happy to let her use their images for free. 

So all is right with the world.  ::)

I expected that to happen.... the saddest part is that the student wrote back to you as some kind of revenge, and now she feels like she won the battle.

« Reply #43 on: July 16, 2010, 10:04 »
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BTW, the student wrote me back and said that she contacted someone else who was happy to let her use their images for free. 

So all is right with the world.  ::)

I expected that to happen.... the saddest part is that the student wrote back to you as some kind of revenge, and now she feels like she won the battle.

Yeah, I'm glad you told her no, she wouldn't have appreciated it anyway. She will just continue to use people, apparently there are plenty out there who are ok with it.

lisafx

« Reply #44 on: July 16, 2010, 13:36 »
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Just glad they weren't my pics she used...

BTW, Ivan, LOVE your new picture!  Your son is getting so big!  You both look adorable and so happy :D

« Reply #45 on: July 16, 2010, 13:48 »
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BTW, Ivan, LOVE your new picture!  Your son is getting so big!  You both look adorable and so happy :D

Thanks for pointing it out Lisa. Yes, great photo!

« Reply #46 on: July 16, 2010, 14:17 »
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Thanks ladies :) He grew up suddenly in last few months. You know how it goes....kids grow suddenly, than stop for few months, than grow again and so on.


donding

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« Reply #47 on: July 16, 2010, 14:40 »
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Thanks ladies :) He grew up suddenly in last few months. You know how it goes....kids grow suddenly, than stop for few months, than grow again and so on.

Careful Ivan they grow up way to fast. Before you know it he'll be making you a Grandpa!!

« Reply #48 on: July 16, 2010, 15:11 »
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BTW, the student wrote me back and said that she contacted someone else who was happy to let her use their images for free. 

So all is right with the world.  ::)

Text book case.  :) All you can tell people is that you run your business in the way that you have found works for you and stick to it. You can't match every price out there (especially if that price is free). Hopefully, they'll respect you for it or recognize the difference between your work and others. If not, then I guess you can't please everyone.

« Reply #49 on: July 16, 2010, 15:39 »
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Thanks ladies :) He grew up suddenly in last few months. You know how it goes....kids grow suddenly, than stop for few months, than grow again and so on.

Careful Ivan they grow up way to fast. Before you know it he'll be making you a Grandpa!!

lol

« Reply #50 on: July 16, 2010, 16:12 »
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I am a college student and see watermarked images used in presentations all the time. Ironically, the one time I gave a presentation talking about stock photography, the person before me had fotolia watermarked images in their presentation. So it made for a good transition.  ;)

« Reply #51 on: July 16, 2010, 16:48 »
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BTW, the student wrote me back and said that she contacted someone else who was happy to let her use their images for free. 

So all is right with the world.  ::)

Sadly, that's what usually happens.  I get people contacting asking for free footage all the time (I'm a poor indie film maker).  They tend to carpet bomb most sites with their request and eventually they find a sucker.  I don't even bother responding any more, even to tell them no.

« Reply #52 on: July 16, 2010, 17:10 »
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BTW, the student wrote me back and said that she contacted someone else who was happy to let her use their images for free. 

So all is right with the world.  ::)

Posible, not true, or not the image she really wanted. No need to write again if it was true. And if true, ceahps find cheaps and they make pairs.

« Reply #53 on: July 16, 2010, 17:24 »
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I don't think it's just a student-thing only, it's more the "why pay if I can get it for free" philosophy. As I said before, many people I know, who can afford buying or renting DVDs, simply download from the internet. They laugh at the idea of not downloading just because it's illegal. I agree this is more entrained in the younger generations, but I see that in older people, mainly those who lived the boom of internet, when it was a challenge to copy and distribute content.


 

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