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Author Topic: The secret of successful shooters finally revealed  (Read 23444 times)

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« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2007, 10:13 »
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A model release is a liability waiver, not a contract. As you observed, the element of consideration doesn't come into play, and if consideration isn't involved, a contract is not enforceable.
Every model release is a contract and consideration should be involved. Every model release includes "For valuable consideration hereby acknowledged as received..." Every photographer should be giving their models something, prints or a cd, etc. If you don't given them something, then the contract's validity may be challenged, but to say it's "a liability waiver, not a contract" is just wrong.


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« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2007, 12:02 »
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Well said yingyang.

Now back to the Ellison :)   

I found this part of a different interview even more compelling
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI2XuMoQOCU&amp;feature=related" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI2XuMoQOCU&amp;feature=related</a>
  then the one that started this topic.

« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2007, 16:58 »
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I found this part of a different interview even more compelling http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI2XuMoQOCU&feature=related  then the one that started this topic.

Now that was a funny and interesting interview.

« Reply #28 on: December 06, 2007, 11:38 »
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Love it when he says he wouldn't take a piss without getting paid
It's true for any profession there is always someone that wants something for nothing.

« Reply #29 on: December 06, 2007, 14:50 »
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The question remains, where will all this stop? Entry level cameras are now so accessible a further price drop is almost inevitable.

I see a proliferation of free image stock sites cropping up where the only potential revenue is Google ad dollars.

I hope it doesn't happen too soon but I think a lot of microstock pros are already planning their exit strategy.

« Reply #30 on: December 06, 2007, 15:39 »
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I couldn't disagree more.  There is a serious shortage of professional microstock photographers - you only have to look at the top lists at any of the agencies and all the action is confined to just two or three hundred contributors.  The exception is iStock who now have 2,300 'gold' photographers (but 2,700,000 members).

Yes, free sites will be popular.  But can you really see the average Joe with his $400 P&S causing Andres, Yuri, Lise, Ron, Dolgachov, Hidesey, Irana, Photoshow, Sjlocke or anyone else of that calibre to lose sleep at night?

I don't think so.

I think 'free' sites will expose the huge difference in quality between 'free' and 'professional' and I think prices will rise.  In five years time the average price for a 'professional' microstock will be 100% higher than today.

« Reply #31 on: December 06, 2007, 16:33 »
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I think 'free' sites will expose the huge difference in quality between 'free' and 'professional' and I think prices will rise.  In five years time the average price for a 'professional' microstock will be 100% higher than today.

It is extremely difficult to come up on lower pricing than vice versa and that is well documented. It all ties in closely with perceived value, over subscription, over duplication and many other variables that ultimately lead towards a consumer driven market.

While the notion that MS will enjoy growth of 100% over the next 5 years is an interesting one, I cannot see how that can possibly happen based on recent trends.

Mass market consumerism has seen prices drop worldwide with no evidence of recovery except in cases of scarcity.

Let's face it, there's only so many ways you can photograph a duck but when 3,000 other photographers are doing exactly the same shot, rejection rates increase, prices drop further and contributor revenue falls.

That decline has already started. Sites like StockXpert, SS, etc are now sitting on their laurels turning down stock that only 2 years ago would have been seen as perfectly adequate. The evidence of over subscription is there if you want to look at it. Gone are the days of 200 - 300 photos being accepted on upload, now you're lucky if the average contributors gets a hit rate of 2/10 which will only result in perfectly good snappers becoming disenchanted and then giving it away in response to mass rejections.

You can't see that happening? Well I certainly can and those sites are already there.

« Last Edit: December 06, 2007, 17:04 by Editorial »

« Reply #32 on: December 06, 2007, 19:51 »
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As in every other "not-protected" market prices move with demand and supply. First people coming into MS got nice earnings because it was a "fresh" market. Now most of their worse shots would probably be rejected or very scarcely downloaded considering the supply of more and more professional-looking shots.
When people will see how hard is just to gain a bunch of bucks with their snapshots they'll turn their time to something else more profitable while the ones really interested in a professional approach will continue to study and improve to reach the best seller ones.

So I expect to:

a) in the short term:
1) a lot more contributors will apply
2) most of them would get tired before reaching the first payout because high rejection rate and scarce downloads
3) the hard workers ones will accept to stay instead working hard to increase their quality

b) in the medium term:
1) The hard workers who will succesfully reach a good quality probably would also have the skills to get assignments outside MS, so they can also decide to dedicate less time to MS shooting.
2) There will be less new applicants because the "easy money" myth surrounding MS now will shatter.
3) less supply, with higher quality, means higher prices IF (underlined) also the demand will stay at the same level

c) in the long term:
1) who cares. As Keynes (the economist) said, in the long term we'll be all dead ;)

The ones who talked about the automotive market could notice that after the oriental brands entered the market the american and european brands raised their quality, lowered their prices but right now here in Europe a car, even if it's japanese or korean, is proportionally more expensive than 15-20 years ago.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2007, 19:54 by ale1969 »

« Reply #33 on: December 07, 2007, 14:43 »
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Well, see iStock's announcement today - prices increased by 50%.

rinderart

« Reply #34 on: December 21, 2007, 01:21 »
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I've been shooting 35mm film for 36 years...   never thought about selling it until a year and a half ago.  Point... I just didn't bust into photography when I bought my first digital...been doing it a loooong time. ..and I still shoot film too.

That being said,   my take on the digital revolution is this.  Digital has enabled so many more folks who    HAD THE TALENT,  BUT COULDN'T AFFORD TO EXPLORE IT (or exploit it)   to now do so.   Ten minutes on any RM  site will show that too much of the work there is mediocre crap that would never fly on the new micros.  On the other hand,  ten minutes on any reputable micro will find you NEW talent that produces images putting the mediocre crap on the RM's to shame.

If you could buy a baby grand piano for 300 bucks (instead of 15 grand) you'd find a lot more people had musical talents as well,  perhaps even find dozens, even hundreds of new (amatuer) concert pianists  here and there. 

You could quite possibly have walked by an individual today who has the talent to be the next  Frank Lloyd Wright or da Vinci,  the next  Alexander Bell or Newton, or the next Mozart or Bach... or the next Ansel Adams...     but will never realize their potential because they can't afford to pursue the education or purchase the 'tools'...

The digital camera revolution.... allowed that for those who love to take pictures... to realize they had an ability they never knew they had.  Now we have a lot more  talented people producing images.  And yeah,   some are selling them cheap... that is,  cheaper than what oldtimers were accustomed to selling them for..  oh well. 

I find great humor in that argument as well.  Why do you think the Ford dealer in this block is selling T-birds for  2 grand less than the Ford dealer on the other side of town?  Why's a pound of provolone cheese sell for half as much at the deli 2 blocks away?  Why's the gas station across the street sell gas 4 cents a gallon cheaper???   You sell your picture to a magazine for 2 grand... I'm happy with 15 hundred. ....  oh well.  Now the guy that sold for 2 grand, didn't sell any... and I just got a second sale for 15 hundred more...  ....... do the math.  If that's whoring my pictures.... I'm crying all the way to the whorehouse (bank).  I guess your pix weren't worth the 500 more.....  welcome to the 21st century.

Times have changed... there's no turning back the digital clock.  There's a lot more competition now for the better or worse.   Instead of sitting around crying the blues....  maybe some of those whinning should get the camera out of the bag and get to work.

Hey... the really talented pros have nothing to worry about.  If they are that good,  they will still and always command top dollar for their work and the use of their images.  Those that need to worry are the old RM shooters (pros) whos work wasn't all that good in the first place.  They were only there because there was no competition, they were the only game in town,  there weren't thousands shooters with pocket cams breathing down their necks with work that is pretty good, even great!

Until the time machine is built and they can go back and kill the guy who invented the digital camera,  the whinners better think about getting off their complacent butts and...   go shoot some more and better pictures.  If they don't, some 'mom with a point and shoot'  will.  And more power to her, go explore and exploit that talent, momma, good for you,  I say!!
    I talk to people like that every day and you know what?  I encourage them all the more. Go for it!! You keep burning up that digital memory.   I think the competition is great!  It forces me to be better than yesterday.   And when I can't stand it any more,  I'll retire to the den, turn off the lights, suck down some beers and watch the slides I took in 1969.

 I understand Ellison's point.  I understand his feelings and fine... stand up for yourself.   But man....  this ain't your daddy's day and age.  There's only so far you can go telling people to  F-off before you find yourself with no pot to pee in.  Does he think the DVD won't be produced because he said.... no?

Do the RM's pros think mom will put the camera back in the box because... they said.. she was an amatuer?      Guess who the last laugh will be on.....................             



Well said!!

« Reply #35 on: December 21, 2007, 23:38 »
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Well said!!

I guess I was a little hot under the collar that day...  :-\   I hope it was understood that I was speaking in general only about those  'old timers' that feel threatened by new blood and would try to make themselves look better primarily by ridicule & making others look bad.
     One's work speaks for itself. An individual's work will make them great along with those that appreciate their work. That goes for any business any profession.    Great photogs will always be great by their works. 

But a   'well said'  from you, sir...  I take as a great compliment.  I have respected your work and opinions since I got into this crazy but  fun biz.  thank you, rinderart!!    -tom

« Reply #36 on: December 22, 2007, 05:08 »
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yeah, well said akatom.  I hadn't read that post before.

I always awe at the postings where people grumble at microstock saying people don't earn money.  I read one post on microstockdiaries by a reader that said that Yuri can't be making much money and saying that Yuri stated he only made MOST of his money in microstock not ALL.. if it was THAT good he would make ALL his money there...    ::) oh brother.

I guess each is free to his own thoughts, and i can just be glad that is another old timer that is staying out of our playing field - it is probably to our benefit that most people think we are earning $100/month on thousands of images. 

« Reply #37 on: December 22, 2007, 16:36 »
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I guess each is free to his own thoughts, and i can just be glad that is another old timer that is staying out of our playing field - it is probably to our benefit that most people think we are earning $100/month on thousands of images. 


Yeah, you got that right, leaf!!   It's amazing.... but when all is said and done... as long as we are happy, that's all that matters!  And I'm still having fun!    8)-tom


 

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