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Author Topic: How Many People Do Family Photography on Side?  (Read 10576 times)

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angelawaye

  • Eat, Sleep, Keyword. Repeat

« on: March 15, 2016, 15:39 »
0
Hi everyone, My main income comes from stock but I also do family photography on the side and lately I think it just doesn't seem worth it as far as the post processing time. I can't find a good way to streamline the process either. Any suggestions? I hate showing clients all the raw images. I take about 500 in 1 hour so it is tedious to open all and crop, color correct and rotate them.

I charge $100 for 1 hour which includes about 60 edited images. I show clients 20 on Facebook and then they say "I can't wait to see the rest!" which stresses me out because the first 20 were the best!

I was charging $80 for one hour last year but everyone seemed very taken back when I raised it this year. I want to raise the price again but worry about backlash which makes me just not want to do it anymore. I don't even know if I am worth more  ... I live in small suburb so most of my clients are from referrals.

Plus, during christmas everyone waits until the last minute to take their family portrait and they want the disc in 2 days and don't understand why they can't get it sooner. I barely get to spend any time with my family during christmas because I am in front of the screen post processing dog hair, snot, or blemishes from people's faces.

Any people go through this? If the money was good, I probably wouldn't be complaining... Sorry for the rant ...


dpimborough

« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2016, 15:45 »
+7
Your biggest mistake is allowing the client to run the show.

Make it clear they will be shown 20 shots of which they can choose a print.

$100 is not enough.  If you were only charging $10 you can gaurantee some clients would whine if you bumped it to $15.

So never under charge.

500 shots is way too many.  60 edited shots is way too many.

As to last minute rushes at Xmas well sorry but you need to ensure clients book in advance and stick to it. 

Tell them they will have the images in xx days (5 minimum)

Rant? Why you are the one making a rod for your own back!

If you let clients call the shots with out taking in to account your needs (workwise) you will only make for whining greedy clients and and a miserable work life.

« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2016, 15:57 »
+2
Teddy is absolutely right.  I started microstock in 2006 and quit my day job in 2012.  That year I added family photography, as I did not want to put all eggs in 1 basket. 
This year, my portraiture has grown into being specialised in Belly & Baby photography and my income is 50/50% stock and belly/baby.
I shoot about 100 to 150 images during a session.  Clients choose from a watermarked (non-edited) gallery with an average of 45 images, and I only edit the images they buy.  My pricing is way higher than yours.  I do not show anything on Facebook before full payment.
Clients find me through Google, so I put a lot of effort in my website, SEO and blogging. 

If you are afraid to raise your pricing, is it because you think you are not good enough?  If so, practice with free sessions, and only put your BEST work on your website.  However, if you ARE good enough, raise your pricing and work on marketing, website and SEO.

« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2016, 16:16 »
+1
 I stopped doing weddings in 2013.  I did one wedding every other weekend and was a home health nurse during the week.  How many stock photos could you do in the time in takes you to process a family photo session?  It took a couple of years to build my port, but now I spend about the same amount of time on stock, make about the same amount of money every month, and my stress level has gone down considerably!   ;)

angelawaye

  • Eat, Sleep, Keyword. Repeat

« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2016, 16:39 »
+3
Teddy, can you be my voice! I get pushed around a lot. People want me to insert animals and things (sparkles, fairy wings etc) and I do it - no extra cost. So I make less than minimum wage in the end. I have no one to blame but myself.

I could put all that time into microstock and make more in the long run - not immediately.

Anyka, glad to hear you are doing well with maternity and newborns! SEO is so important.

I think if I raise my prices it would have to be a lot for me to keep doing it - like $175 an hour but people will be totally confused (and angry) so I think I might make an announcement that I am taking time off and then come back in a year and charge more... I just can't keep doing it the way I am ...








« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2016, 16:55 »
0
Teddy, can you be my voice! I get pushed around a lot. People want me to insert animals and things (sparkles, fairy wings etc) and I do it - no extra cost. So I make less than minimum wage in the end. I have no one to blame but myself.

I could put all that time into microstock and make more in the long run - not immediately.

Anyka, glad to hear you are doing well with maternity and newborns! SEO is so important.

I think if I raise my prices it would have to be a lot for me to keep doing it - like $175 an hour but people will be totally confused (and angry) so I think I might make an announcement that I am taking time off and then come back in a year and charge more... I just can't keep doing it the way I am ...

Do you use the photos from your family photography sessions in stock? Or could you?

angelawaye

  • Eat, Sleep, Keyword. Repeat

« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2016, 17:03 »
+2
Oh gosh no! I don't want the liability. I've seen my own work in things it shouldn't be in and can't fight it...

« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2016, 17:14 »
0
Oh gosh no! I don't want the liability. I've seen my own work in things it shouldn't be in and can't fight it...

But I meant with the consent of your customers, model releases and stuff.. You feel shy to raise your fee putting so many efforts into the photoshoots and processing, then maybe you could agree with some of your clients for certain images to be used in stock...

« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2016, 17:24 »
+1
Oh gosh no! I don't want the liability. I've seen my own work in things it shouldn't be in and can't fight it...

But I meant with the consent of your customers, model releases and stuff.. You feel shy to raise your fee putting so many efforts into the photoshoots and processing, then maybe you could agree with some of your clients for certain images to be used in stock...

I do this occasionally, when a couple is very photogenic, or when they have twins, or a super cute little brother, or when it's my make-up artist who's pregnant ... I let them choose between a regular (paying) session and a stock session.  If they choose to sign a model release, I give them a free session, dvd and photo book.   
But as new stock images don't sell as good as in "the old days", I must say that a paying portrait session usually gives more income.

dpimborough

« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2016, 04:20 »
+5
Teddy, can you be my voice! I get pushed around a lot. People want me to insert animals and things (sparkles, fairy wings etc) and I do it - no extra cost. So I make less than minimum wage in the end. I have no one to blame but myself.

I could put all that time into microstock and make more in the long run - not immediately.

Anyka, glad to hear you are doing well with maternity and newborns! SEO is so important.

I think if I raise my prices it would have to be a lot for me to keep doing it - like $175 an hour but people will be totally confused (and angry) so I think I might make an announcement that I am taking time off and then come back in a year and charge more... I just can't keep doing it the way I am ...

Learn to be assertive be honest and up front and draw up a list of things you will do and will not do.  State your price and don't worry if they walk away.  You will always have other customers come along who will pay the asking price.

An accountant I know who advises new business start ups points out to all new business people "it is easy to under price yourself but extremely difficult to raise prices once you set the bar too low".

When he started his own practice he worked stupid hours had lots of customers and made little money.

He raised his costs and had customers threaten to leave some did but as he put it they came back in the end because he did a good job.

Let these clients demand sparkles and unicorns but at the end of the day they have to pay for it.  So create an add on price list for edits.

i.e. To add special items like unicorns and fairys $50. Then detail briefly it includes 3-4 hours processing time to do this. or what you need to add such items.

If you type up a price list then detail what is standard and what is extra then there are no arguments.

The client is clear up front what they get.

Oh and you will not make more in microstock. MS is a chisellers paradise I use it as an additional revenue stream only.

Taking time out for a year is not an option, in my view it is your way of avoiding conflict.  So be tough (not aggressive) bite that bullet and you will change your relationship with your clients.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2016, 04:22 by Teddy the Cat »

« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2016, 07:04 »
+3

An accountant I know who advises new business start ups points out to all new business people "it is easy to under price yourself but extremely difficult to raise prices once you set the bar too low".



I think that's some of the best advice that can be given to anyone starting up any business.


To the OP, put your prices up! Don't apologise for charging a reasonable fee either. In fact never apologise for your prices. It makes it seem as if you think you are charging too much!
You are worth your fee!
Say your accountant told you you needed to raise your prices when offering a premium service if you feel the need to explain. (I wouldn't)
As already said. Charge extra for extra work. Have a list of your charges ready.


When I was making furniture (and all self employed business is basically the same), I used to occasionally get people who would try to haggle on price. I'd simply say that the price on bespoke work wasn't negotiable. I might have lost one or two jobs that way over 20 + years. People who want to haggle are often a PIA in other ways.


« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2016, 08:39 »
+1
500 shots in 1 hour?  You should better take a video  ;D


« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2016, 12:13 »
+2
Maybe charge at least $150/hr and give them 10-15 final images per each hour you shoot (unless you like working for less money than someone at a fast food restaurant).  You can slightly discount the rate if they don't mind signing a model release.  Sometimes I don't even think $150 is enough when you add up all of your time spent before after the capture.

« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2016, 14:45 »
0
I had a wedding and portrait studio for 22 years. Closed in 2002 when I read the digital handwriting on the wall. I was still tracked down by clients wanting family portraits. Not often, but enough that I had to come up with a price and plan.

First problem, no sales room. How to show proofs (or "previews", as we used to call them.) And, I REALLY didn't want to go though all that production work. And, I didn't want to go to their homes multiple times to give, explain, sell, and deliver.
Sell the digital files? Just didn't seem right. A bad print of my file would be a bad reflection on me.

Second problem, I could no longer accept credit cards.

So, I decided to take a radical approach; because I was "through with portraits", and did not want to spend lots of time and effort for a unknown (possibly small) sale. Basically I set my own terms that I would be comfortable with. My personal goal: continue to produce a quality family portrait, spend as little time in sales/production as possible, keep expenses to a minimum, and know beforehand how much I would make.

My solution? Charge $XXX.xx at the time of the portrait. Never move the tripod, take only one arrangement BUT make enough exposures so that I was assured of having a good, natural expression of everyone, and then combine the best expressions for a single "perfect portrait". Then, make one beautiful 11x14 print on my Epson printer, mat it to fit a 16x20 frame. Then, they get a (single) stunning, perfect portrait and the digital negative so everyone could make their own prints AND pass it on for generations.
I knew it probably wouldn't work, but those were the terms I could live with, so I didn't care if no one would agree to it.
Knowing all the downsides of * established portrait traditions, I was prepared for rejection when I got my first inquiry from a long time client.

No different poses to choose from? YOU pick the best one? 
Did I get disappointment, anger, and rejection?
Nope.
I got people that were SO happy that they didn't have to make any decisions!
And no high pressure sales pitch!
And no "add-on's", putting them over budget.
They loved it!

Now for the payment. "Can I put it on my credit card"?
 So sorry,(gulp) I can't take them any more.
"OK. Will you take a check?"
 SURE!

Now, to be honest, I don't do many family portraits now; mainly because there's not much of a call for them - or any other portraits - in this age of phone photos and cloud storage.
But, when I do, I know beforehand what I'm going to make, and feel personally satisfied that all their family members and future generations will have this moment of everyone looking their best to cherish and value forever.

And, I've kept my professional pride. (and made some extra money).


angelawaye

  • Eat, Sleep, Keyword. Repeat

« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2016, 22:17 »
0
Thank you for the links. People in Buffalo charge $200-$400 for 1 hour (usually 20 -40 files)

Jamie, thank you for sharing your experience.

I could live with only doing 1 family photo and that's that! (I don't take checks though)

Maybe I should consider something like this. People expect so many photos and it wears me down. If I only had to deal with 1 final version, I could see the light!

« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2016, 09:37 »
+2
But they aren't charging 200 for 1 hour. They are charging for:

1.  Consultation  (Emails, phone calls, location/light scouting)
2.  Travel time to and from shoot
3.  Early arrival, pre-shoot consultation
3.  Gas, use of vehicle
4.  1 hour photo session
5.  Travel to office/residence
6.  Dumping cards, backing cards up
7.  Making selections, running through lightroom, photoshop, preparing for viewing
8.  Uploading to server for proofing
9.  Consultation with client over order
10.Final retouching
11.  Transmitting order to lab
12.  Drive to lab, collect order, return to office, package order,
       Or burn discs  (how did you get the discs, did you drive to Staples?)
13.  Prepare invoice on a printer that you had to pay for with software that you had to pay for
14.  Drive to post office to ship to client :  or, set aside time to meet with client.  You are always early.
15  Collect payment,  make a bank deposit, make journal entry, allocate tax portion to tax account, submit monthly/quarterly/annually to tax agency

$200 is a pretty low wage if you ask me.  If everything considered only took 4 hours, that would be billing at $50 per hour.  Where does the money to pay for CC, equipment, wear and tear on vehicle, personal taxes, business taxes, insurance come from?   That $50 per hour is likely less than minimum wage.

P.S.  you may not take cheques but you should look into a square credit card reader, their fees aren't too bad and people will often spend more than they have.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2016, 09:40 by Pixart »


« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2016, 09:50 »
0
Client does not care about this. They see only "per hour". And often you can hear that "oh you want such money for a button click!" :-)

« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2016, 11:45 »
+3
Client does not care about this. They see only "per hour". And often you can hear that "oh you want such money for a button click!" :-)
Hey! It's actually $200 for 1/30 of a second!   ;)

« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2016, 12:55 »
0
Client does not care about this. They see only "per hour". And often you can hear that "oh you want such money for a button click!" :-)


If it was $10 an hour they'd say the same.
The hagglers, arguers, and "that muchers!" are rarely good clients in my experience. Sensible people realise that they're paying for a service that's a lot more than a click!


Luxury services (and professional family photos have to come into that category these days surely?) are never going to be cheap.


« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2016, 13:15 »
+3
Client does not care about this. They see only "per hour". And often you can hear that "oh you want such money for a button click!" :-)

Which brings up a good point. In design, I hardly ever work on an hourly basis or quote my hourly fee for exactly the same reason. I give a price per job (which I base on my hourly fee). The psychology of it seems to work better. As soon as people hear $100 per hour, or whatever the hourly rate, they compare it to what they themselves make. No matter that the comparison is irrelevant. In their mind, you aren't worth it.

So maybe dispense of an hourly rate (if you charge that way), and come up with package prices. For example, $300 gets you this, this and this. For $400 you get this, this and this, AND this extra. Etc. etc.

« Reply #21 on: March 17, 2016, 16:00 »
+1
Client does not care about this. They see only "per hour". And often you can hear that "oh you want such money for a button click!" :-)

Which brings up a good point. In design, I hardly ever work on an hourly basis or quote my hourly fee for exactly the same reason. I give a price per job (which I base on my hourly fee). The psychology of it seems to work better. As soon as people hear $100 per hour, or whatever the hourly rate, they compare it to what they themselves make. No matter that the comparison is irrelevant. In their mind, you aren't worth it.

So maybe dispense of an hourly rate (if you charge that way), and come up with package prices. For example, $300 gets you this, this and this. For $400 you get this, this and this, AND this extra. Etc. etc.
Excellent advice.

angelawaye

  • Eat, Sleep, Keyword. Repeat

« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2016, 14:59 »
0
When people hear $100 per hour (for shooting) they just don't realize all the work that goes on after (or before) the one hour of shooting as Pixart mentioned. People just look at what they make an hour and compare that.

I must spend days editing a 1 hour photo shoot and they have no idea. My husband said to show them before and after pictures so they might understand ...

Either way, If I double my price, people will get very upset with me. I'm just going to take time off from it for a while and come back again with a higher price.

angelawaye

  • Eat, Sleep, Keyword. Repeat

« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2016, 15:06 »
0
Cathy, I do "packages" like this on my website:

$100 = 1 hour of shooting and 20-30 edited images - I always give way more
$60 = 30 minutes of shooting with 10-15 edited images - I always give them way more

It isn't like I'm charging $100 an hour to edit - $100 covers EVERYTHING so that is where I make no money.

I also do graphic and website design and never do "hourly". I like the client to know right away how much a flyer or basic one page website will be.

Am I presenting this the wrong way to clients? It seems like that is how others do it.
Even though I say $100 for 1 hour of shooting, I'm not really making $100 per hour off the entire job.

« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2016, 16:14 »
+1
I must spend days editing a 1 hour photo shoot and they have no idea. My husband said to show them before and after pictures so they might understand ...

Either way, If I double my price, people will get very upset with me. I'm just going to take time off from it for a while and come back again with a higher price.

Just an idea - it works for me, may be it works for you :
Many customers want "ALL" photos, or at least lots of them, not just 10 or 20.  Editing all photos is a nightmare, so I beside the fully edited packages (with 8 to 20 images), customers can buy non-edited images at a much lower price.  These images are not high resolution, but they are printable.
So you could have a price for the photo session alone, and let the customer choose an add-on package with X images edited.  Then they can add as many non-edited images as they like (at X dollars a piece).  This way they are in control of what they spend, even if you raise your pricing.
And one other thing :  you should never give a customer "way more" than what's in their package.  You can SHOW them that you have more to images (watermarked!), but if they want them (even non-edited), they will have to pay for them.

The easiest way to reduce your amount of work is to make the IMAGES more expensive, not the photo session. 

angelawaye

  • Eat, Sleep, Keyword. Repeat

« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2016, 18:00 »
0
That is excellent advice! THANK YOU!!!

« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2016, 11:25 »
+2
Then the problem is they get an unedited image with the old dude that snuck in to feed the birds in the background or the squirming kid.  They always pick the worst one to blow up and hang above the fireplace and this in no way represents your work.  Do you want unedited images on facebook?

For $100 you could offer a 45 minute session, 1 location within 15 miles of your home for a maximum of 4 people.  $25 each additional person.  (But you are such a nice family of 6 I won't charge you the $25/per unless Grandma and Grandpa and sour Auntie Cecile show up.)  That would basically pay for your hour and travel.  But they should also pay for the product.   (You don't pay for a hair cut and leave with a free bottle of shampoo and conditioner).

Free (watermarked) proofing gallery that will be live for 5 days.    If you take 10 shots of the same setup, display the best 1 or 2.  They don't need 10, it confuses them and they can't make a decision.  Make sure the mother looks fabulous in what you select. 

I still offer bundles of sizes of the same photo.  They think wow, that's a really good discount, you will think wow, I only have to retouch a couple photos.



« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2016, 11:43 »
+1
I never give or show unretouched photos. These photos always will be used against photographer to decrease a price or to blame in attempt to not pay at all. Some variants for proofs: collages of thumbs for a choice. In this case editing will not take a lot of time and resources. Watermark on all thumbs. For small projects - upfront payment or not show any thumbs/proofs before. Had cases when client used them in profiles and it was very difficult to receive payment because the sum was less than for small claims court level.
Of course everybody has different environment and different level of precaution is needed. Contract should include all even small details, otherwise they can demand prints for a short session for the same price or something else.

angelawaye

  • Eat, Sleep, Keyword. Repeat

« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2016, 12:46 »
0
Thanks for your feedback. I feel very reluctant to show the clients unedited images. Even if they are watermarked and small.

The problem is I can't choose which ones to edit so I end up editing a whole bunch (60-80). It's funny because the photo I think is the "best" version is not always the one the client likes the best (I see from their facebook profile or cover image). Poeple are very funny about how they look. This one girl was so picky about her face and I thought she looked beautiful.

I know some photographers have clients come over for a "proofing meeting" and go through them but that is another hour of time for me and not worth it when charging $100 for everything.

I just wish I had a better way to streamline the process without editing all of them and showing unedited ones.

« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2016, 16:35 »
0
If you charge more you can sit with the client for an hour and hook up your HDMI cable from your computer to their tv or yours depending on how/where you work and show them a reasonable selection of the unedited images so you help them narrow down their choices. When you project the images like that they are likely to want more of them. Then you don't have to edit 60 or 80 images and you get a sense right away of what the client likes. It's great feedback and it gets the client excited about the images.

I don't give usually clients the unedited images because I don't want some terrible photo showing up, although if I've shot an event like a charity fundraiser I might give them a CD with more than the few they've selected for the press, color balanced and edited so it only includes the better shots but without taking out wrinkles and the like - so just a quick edit. I let them know people can order edited photos from me.

For portraits, I don't quote an hourly rate but get an idea of what they think they want and then quote package prices, as well as options for higher end items such as albums and prints on canvas.

For a family portrait, unless they want an album, you certainly don't need to show them more than 30 photos. If you show them 100 they'll never be able to make a choice.

Talk to other photographers in your area and get a sense of their prices. IMHO $100 is way too low even if you're not in a metropolitan area. I charge way more than that for a simple headshot. Don't sell yourself short.

« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2016, 10:21 »
+1
I know some photographers have clients come over for a "proofing meeting" and go through them but that is another hour of time for me and not worth it when charging $100 for everything.

I just wish I had a better way to streamline the process without editing all of them and showing unedited ones.

You sell WAAYYY more if you have a proof meeting.  If you show a 20x30 canvas, they buy a 20x30 canvas when all they wanted was an 8x10 print in a cardboard folder.

« Reply #31 on: March 21, 2016, 12:53 »
0
i see that you got very good advice here until now...
i will tell you how i work.
Beside stock photography i make boudoir photography... 90% of my work
I have a retoucher that works for me, and his fee i added in my package fee.
In 2 hours i take like 200 photos from which the client can choose 20 or 30 photos, if they want extra, they pay extra.
from this shootings, depends of the woman, i ask for a model release and explain what is stock photography... so from time to time i get also model release from my already paid sessions!

« Reply #32 on: March 21, 2016, 14:54 »
0
I don't do an overabundance of family sessions, but I've got a few under my belt - just had one this morning, in fact.

My rate varies and depends upon the number of subjects. The way I see it, the more different subjects, the more photos you have to take to get one that works - or worse, editing a face from one photo onto another. I specify no destination charges for locations within a certain distance from me.

I had a shoot in December that was 9 adults - 2 locations, both about 45 minutes away from me. I quoted them $400, and they didn't quibble at all. I could have charged more, I'm sure.

I used to have a base price then prices for prints, including package pricing, etc. I didn't sell that many prints, so now I just give them a (higher) price for the session, telling them they will get the photographer's pick of a minimum number of images (varies by the number of subjects) and they can ask me about prints, or they can print wherever they wish. The price includes the session, basic editing, and the on-line, downloadable gallery.

I will usually do one or two of the finished files with extra effects so they can see what some of their options may look like, but I don't advertise that part. If I get motivated, I throw them in.

« Reply #33 on: March 28, 2016, 17:29 »
0
Angela, you're very talented... more than you probably feel.  You need to grow some confidence in yourself, after (how many years have you been doing this stuff now?).  Remember that.  It's not like you just bought your first computer or camera and are figuring this crap out as you go along. 

I would recommend that you start charging hourly for your design work.  Give an initial estimate, but let the clients know they will have to pay you hourly.  Flat rate pricing only works if you're charging A LOT and getting it.  Otherwise you'll get dragged into proofing hell/limbo back and forth just because most people like to change things just for the sake of changing them, JUST because they CAN.  Proofing revisions can turn nightmarish.  Or you can give them an option of up to 1 or 2 revisions and then after that, charge additional hourly.  I've been burned oooooh so many times by quoting a flat rate on design work, only to find out that either I underestimated the length of the job, or because the client was a psycho. 

Worried about your clients being offended?  No worries... there are plenty around, and they will pay you what you want if you have the quality to back it up.  Sometimes people will pay more than average for something just because they think it must be more valuable.  There is a ton of psychology behind consumerism.  It's still an incredible value for them if you chose to charge $100 for a half hour shoot or $150-200 for an hour, with 10-20 images delivered.  Try it out, and see how it goes.  When you get so busy that you're turning away clients, jack up the prices.  You'll give yourself a raise, and you'll be able to make the same, but work less.  Enjoy your family time more!

« Reply #34 on: March 28, 2016, 18:20 »
0
I would recommend that you start charging hourly for your design work.  Give an initial estimate, but let the clients know they will have to pay you hourly.  Flat rate pricing only works if you're charging A LOT and getting it.  Otherwise you'll get dragged into proofing hell/limbo back and forth just because most people like to change things just for the sake of changing them, JUST because they CAN.  Proofing revisions can turn nightmarish.  Or you can give them an option of up to 1 or 2 revisions and then after that, charge additional hourly.  I've been burned oooooh so many times by quoting a flat rate on design work, only to find out that either I underestimated the length of the job, or because the client was a psycho. 


I have found the opposite to be true. I work fixed price, and offer 2 rounds of minor revisions for what i quote. Whenever i talk hourly, the first question from the client is "how many hours will it take?" There are clients, for sure, who think they should get unlimited revisions. I dont take those jobs, otherwise i am working for free. I think its a personal preference, one way isnt any better than the other. A bad client is a bad client.

« Reply #35 on: March 30, 2016, 14:24 »
0
I don't have that problem... because I honestly don't want to be bothered with design work.  I price is high, and long, and hope they go away.  Then sometimes they still want to go forward, so I just buck up and do it.  If something isn't as enjoyable or convenient, or I'm just not in the mood, I quote high.  There are many ways to skin a cat.


 

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