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Author Topic: How to end the "Caps" debate: share your data.  (Read 16718 times)

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Shelma1

« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2018, 10:53 »
+1
C'mon then.

Show us your spreadsheets. Show us your graphs. Show us your workings.

I can't because there are no caps. Show me proof of Nessie, the Bermuda Triangle, Vampires, shape shifting birds, or a yeti. You can't because just like caps, they are a children's fairy tale or belief based on repeated false evidence. There's no proof and that's why believers defend so much. They toss out other myths to prove the first one, like new people are pushed to the front. But wait, I'm on the first page of a number of searches and have been for those same for a long time. I guess SS like me better.  :)

I think they read this forum and punish people who write bad things. So you better watch out, they're making a list and checking it twice, Gonna find out who's naughty or nice. SS caps are coming to town. Then they will change the search so only people here drop down and push horrible new cheap images to the front so buyers will say, SS has terrible photos, we need to go someplace else.

Just because somebody makes a claims and a small minority of believers agree and make the same claim, that don't make it proof. Just false rumors. The number of wrong people doesn't make evidence, it just means more people who have no sense.

Since it took you about 100 years to get to whatis it 36 now?you clearly don't make enough sales to see patterns, and your images aren't popular enough to be affected by changing algorithms.


« Reply #26 on: February 19, 2018, 11:10 »
+1
C'mon then.

Show us your spreadsheets. Show us your graphs. Show us your workings.

I can't because there are no caps. Show me proof of Nessie, the Bermuda Triangle, Vampires, shape shifting birds, or a yeti. You can't because just like caps, they are a children's fairy tale or belief based on repeated false evidence. There's no proof and that's why believers defend so much. They toss out other myths to prove the first one, like new people are pushed to the front. But wait, I'm on the first page of a number of searches and have been for those same for a long time. I guess SS like me better.  :)

I think they read this forum and punish people who write bad things. So you better watch out, they're making a list and checking it twice, Gonna find out who's naughty or nice. SS caps are coming to town. Then they will change the search so only people here drop down and push horrible new cheap images to the front so buyers will say, SS has terrible photos, we need to go someplace else.

Just because somebody makes a claims and a small minority of believers agree and make the same claim, that don't make it proof. Just false rumors. The number of wrong people doesn't make evidence, it just means more people who have no sense.

Since it took you about 100 years to get to whatis it 36 now?you clearly don't make enough sales to see patterns, and your images aren't popular enough to be affected by changing algorithms.

At least I'm not capped like some other people here.  ;D

And I don't have enough sales to see a pattern but you can't see my sales so what imagination does that come from. I think it's simple, they are out to get you. Now you have gone from debating imaginary caps to personal attacks again. Weak
« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 11:15 by YadaYadaYada »

niktol

« Reply #27 on: February 19, 2018, 11:20 »
0

Why wouldn't they promote new contributors? completely different from a cap. Who says newer content isn't as attractive its no more "fair" to put established best sellers at the front of the queue than fresh new content.

Of course they are within their rights. If a person produces the same content but is cheaper, why not promote this person? I can't speak for everyone, but I myself do the same thing, I pay more attention to customers who pay more. Can CanStock hold it against me and sue me for unfair competition if my portfolio on Canstock is smaller than on SS?

« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2018, 12:15 »
+3
It might not be a cap, but it has the effect of stopping, capping or even reversing your growth when you've reached a certain level of success, because your content is then targeted to be pushed back in favor of newer contributors'.

I used to think this cap stuff was nonsense until it happened to me, and now I just see how naive I was until two years ago, when my earnings started dropping instead of growing and I started paying attention to why that was.

Exactly. It's not a cap.

Why on earth would you assume that your sales should keep growing forever? They (generally) won't! And especially not as the competition has been growing exponentially.

Just because you sold 10,000 images per day before, doesn't mean you should always do that. You had less competition before. Trends change. It's as simple as that. When you reach a certain level, you need to work really hard just to stay at that level. Just as hard as when you were still growing. This is natural. The sales potential is not infinite!

And why would they not promote new contributors? That seems like a very natural thing to me.

« Reply #29 on: February 19, 2018, 12:49 »
+4
i still have to understand why every big sales is ALWAYS and i mean ALWAYS 100% of time followed by 3 4 crap days. ALWAYS. when something happen always it's not a coincidence. and this is experienced by many authors.

I experience exactly this with a lot of frequency for the past years. After a great day it's almost certain that the following days will be a disgrace.

I'm a microstock "veteran", with many thousands of images and a level of income that's relatively solid. I always noticed the seasonal changes or the big holidays in US or Europe like most people, but apart from that things were more or less stable.

But from some time now I get what it's mentioned above. Some days are terrible without any reason, and almost certain to happen after a great one. And in the end of the week the number of downloads end up being more or less the same of the previous weeks.

In fact, even before people started to talk about this in MSG I had noticed it but never said anything, and one day my wife (who works with me) also commented how odd things were happening and then we started to pay attention.

I was to post a graphic (even had the screen-capture made), but after reading the concerns about SS terms I will not do it. But I can guarantee you that it's really obvious what is happening. (I edited this paragraph since I believe it disclosed some information that SS could interpret and who knows link to me, and I'm not in a position to have problems with SS)

I've noticed several other things too, but I cannot bother too much with them since it will change nothing. And who knows, maybe I'm even being benefited in this scheme and I am protected by SS guaranteeing me a slice of the pie! Without it maybe I would drop like a stone? Who knows?
« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 13:16 by MicroVet »

farbled

« Reply #30 on: February 19, 2018, 13:01 »
+3

Exactly. It's not a cap.

Why on earth would you assume that your sales should keep growing forever? They (generally) won't! And especially not as the competition has been growing exponentially.

Just because you sold 10,000 images per day before, doesn't mean you should always do that. You had less competition before. Trends change. It's as simple as that. When you reach a certain level, you need to work really hard just to stay at that level. Just as hard as when you were still growing. This is natural. The sales potential is not infinite!

And why would they not promote new contributors? That seems like a very natural thing to me.

To use your own argument, shouldn't our sales fluctuate then? Mine are steady. Rock steady. And when they are in the thousands and measured over years, you can absolutely see the consistency. I make xx amount each month. Regardless of what sells and when and how much I upload or don't upload. If I get high SODs then my sales after balance it out so I make virtually the same every month.  If that is random chance, every month for years, then just... wow. Nothing more to be said here.

I am happy to compete with others. That inspires and promotes doing a better job. But if I can not grow or advance through no fault of my own, it gets a bit frustrating. I am currently off looking for greener pastures and not uploading there and you know what? Sales are exactly the same there.

« Reply #31 on: February 19, 2018, 13:15 »
+2
To use your own argument, shouldn't our sales fluctuate then? Mine are steady. Rock steady. And when they are in the thousands and measured over years, you can absolutely see the consistency. I make xx amount each month. Regardless of what sells and when and how much I upload or don't upload. If I get high SODs then my sales after balance it out so I make virtually the same every month.  If that is random chance, every month for years, then just... wow. Nothing more to be said here.

I am happy to compete with others. That inspires and promotes doing a better job. But if I can not grow or advance through no fault of my own, it gets a bit frustrating. I am currently off looking for greener pastures and not uploading there and you know what? Sales are exactly the same there.

I can attest to the same. A lot of consistency, with new uploads, no uploads, etc. If I upload new images that start selling than the old ones stop so the total is always more or less the same.

derek

    This user is banned.
« Reply #32 on: February 19, 2018, 13:21 »
0
Cap????  whats that?

« Reply #33 on: February 19, 2018, 13:52 »
+1
It's been like ... a whole week of you guys arguing about the same thing.

Can we move on to like .... #fergienationalanthem or something?

dpimborough

« Reply #34 on: February 19, 2018, 14:41 »
+1
I'll bite but you are only getting percentage growth rates

2014           2015      2016      +2017
+516%           +69%      +1%      -7%

Even though I added images regular as clockwork avoided similars improved quality diversified add editorial it didn't change anything

2016 was within a handful of dollars of 2015.

Since 2015 sales have constantly bounced between an upper and lower control limit

JimP

« Reply #35 on: February 19, 2018, 15:13 »
0
People shouldnt forget that it is against Shutterstock rules to publish our earnings... I see people breaking it all the time but I wouldnt.


Confidentiality

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https://submit.shutterstock.com/legal/terms

JimP

« Reply #36 on: February 19, 2018, 15:25 »
+1

Exactly. It's not a cap.

Why on earth would you assume that your sales should keep growing forever? They (generally) won't! And especially not as the competition has been growing exponentially.

Just because you sold 10,000 images per day before, doesn't mean you should always do that. You had less competition before. Trends change. It's as simple as that. When you reach a certain level, you need to work really hard just to stay at that level. Just as hard as when you were still growing. This is natural. The sales potential is not infinite!

And why would they not promote new contributors? That seems like a very natural thing to me.

To use your own argument, shouldn't our sales fluctuate then? Mine are steady. Rock steady. And when they are in the thousands and measured over years, you can absolutely see the consistency. I make xx amount each month. Regardless of what sells and when and how much I upload or don't upload. If I get high SODs then my sales after balance it out so I make virtually the same every month.  If that is random chance, every month for years, then just... wow. Nothing more to be said here.

I am happy to compete with others. That inspires and promotes doing a better job. But if I can not grow or advance through no fault of my own, it gets a bit frustrating. I am currently off looking for greener pastures and not uploading there and you know what? Sales are exactly the same there.

How is your X amount figured? Is yours different from Derek or Shelma1 or Microvet. Some of us aren't capped, then how do SS decide who is capped and whos not and what's my cap?



farbled

« Reply #37 on: February 19, 2018, 15:40 »
+2
 If you are not capped then congratulations. Who knows why? How many years have you been there? Are you top tier? How long at top tier? How big is your portfolio?

My graph looks nothing like that. But hey, must be something else to dictate why I get a fraction of sales consistently after a SOD until I am within my narrow band of consistent earnings month after month, year after year.

This is pointless. I'm out.


derek

    This user is banned.
« Reply #38 on: February 19, 2018, 16:05 »
+3
This is a joke! none her bar JimP and perhaps sammy have experienced the cap. You can show graphs the lot it dont mean a thing, you have to experience it and for many not here but over at SS whos been upplying for over 10 years it came down like a brick just over night, no warning nothing but just over night about a year back!...and these peoples earnings were cut in half, exactly by 50%, ALL of us down with exactly 50%.....why? how? nobody knows but it did happen.

I can personally shake up over 25 people long time suppliers over ten years who will verify this. Thats that. Now weather some people here believe it or not well frankly I dont give one single iota!  and thats the end of story.

« Reply #39 on: February 19, 2018, 16:07 »
0
This is a joke! none her bar JimP and perhaps sammy have experienced the cap. You can show graphs the lot it dont mean a thing, you have to experience it and for many not here but over at SS whos been upplying for over 10 years it came down like a brick just over night, no warning nothing but just over night about a year back!...and these peoples earnings were cut in half, exactly by 50%, ALL of us down with exactly 50%.....why? how? nobody knows but it did happen.

I can personally shake up over 25 people long time suppliers over ten years who will verify this. Thats that. Now weather some people here believe it or not well frankly I dont give one single iota!  and thats the end of story.

Do that I'd like to see those 25 people. It's not dropping like a brick, cut in half, it's capping, remember?

derek

    This user is banned.
« Reply #40 on: February 19, 2018, 17:10 »
+1
This is a joke! none her bar JimP and perhaps sammy have experienced the cap. You can show graphs the lot it dont mean a thing, you have to experience it and for many not here but over at SS whos been upplying for over 10 years it came down like a brick just over night, no warning nothing but just over night about a year back!...and these peoples earnings were cut in half, exactly by 50%, ALL of us down with exactly 50%.....why? how? nobody knows but it did happen.

I can personally shake up over 25 people long time suppliers over ten years who will verify this. Thats that. Now weather some people here believe it or not well frankly I dont give one single iota!  and thats the end of story.

Do that I'd like to see those 25 people. It's not dropping like a brick, cut in half, it's capping, remember?

Call it what you want mate! the rest I let you have an educated guess at. :)

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #41 on: February 19, 2018, 17:15 »
+2
If you are not capped then congratulations. Who knows why? How many years have you been there? Are you top tier? How long at top tier? How big is your portfolio?

My graph looks nothing like that. But hey, must be something else to dictate why I get a fraction of sales consistently after a SOD until I am within my narrow band of consistent earnings month after month, year after year.

This is pointless. I'm out.

Is this like trying to explain what does popular mean on ShutterStock? We don't know and they won't tell us.  ;D Now we're trying to guess who's capped and why? I'd agree it's pretty much pointless if we can't change anything.


namussi

« Reply #42 on: February 19, 2018, 22:41 »
0


Is this like trying to explain what does popular mean on ShutterStock? We don't know and they won't tell us.  ;D Now we're trying to guess who's capped and why? I'd agree it's pretty much pointless if we can't change anything.

If there's no cap, then there's nothing to change.

namussi

« Reply #43 on: February 19, 2018, 22:45 »
0
This is a joke! none her bar JimP and perhaps sammy have experienced the cap. You can show graphs the lot it dont mean a thing, you have to experience it

How do you know if you've experienced it then?

SpaceStockFootage

  • Space, Sci-Fi and Astronomy Related Stock Footage

« Reply #44 on: February 19, 2018, 23:33 »
+1
I'll bite but you are only getting percentage growth rates

2014           2015      2016      +2017
+516%           +69%      +1%      -7%

Even though I added images regular as clockwork avoided similars improved quality diversified add editorial it didn't change anything

2016 was within a handful of dollars of 2015.

Since 2015 sales have constantly bounced between an upper and lower control limit

Do you have the percentage growth rate of your portfolio, and the percentage growth rate of SS as a whole to go with your earnings figure? Your 2013 figures would be handy as well.

« Reply #45 on: February 20, 2018, 01:02 »
0
FYI :)

dpimborough

« Reply #46 on: February 20, 2018, 03:30 »
+1
I'll bite but you are only getting percentage growth rates

2014           2015      2016      +2017
+516%           +69%      +1%      -7%

Even though I added images regular as clockwork avoided similars improved quality diversified add editorial it didn't change anything

2016 was within a handful of dollars of 2015.

Since 2015 sales have constantly bounced between an upper and lower control limit

Do you have the percentage growth rate of your portfolio, and the percentage growth rate of SS as a whole to go with your earnings figure? Your 2013 figures would be handy as well.

Yes I do and as I said that's all I am publishing here on an open forum

« Reply #47 on: February 20, 2018, 03:47 »
0
I am not sure if there's a cap.

My RPI trend mirrors SS's library downloads per image almost exactly over a period of almost ten years which makes me think it must be the same for most people that reach a certain portfolio size, or it's a heck of a coincidence.

That doesn't necessarily mean there isn't a cap (it could be the cap keeping me at that rate for example).

I do remember Yuri used to complain about what amounts to cap on the SS forum. I will try and find the posts, can't remember if SS actively denied or admitted it at that time.

« Reply #48 on: February 20, 2018, 04:04 »
+4
Here's a real example, although with fictional numbers.

Lets say you have an average of about 50 downloads per day on a weekday. And that these 50 DL are from a portfolio that hasn't received new images in a while.

Then, you upload new content that does no compete with your old one, and you start selling about 10 images per day from these new images. It would be expected that you'd start to have 60 DL per day, no? At least for a while, since you've got images in the New filter and some may even get to the Popular.

Yet, what happens is that you still get about 50 DL per day, even with the 10 you get from the new content! That means that somehow your older images stopped being seen by buyers when in the previous period they sold regularly. How does this happen? And so often?

This has been happening to me. Almost half of my daily sales are from new content and my average is the same as before I uploaded them.

I've also had new approved images, missing from the New search for days several times, killing them at birth. And as mentioned before, I've seen new members with many similar images with terrible quality which I doubt had sales in front of the Popular search while my images which had downloads in the first days never got near to it. And I'm not talking about very competitive subjects.

Anyway, it's hard to discuss this subject when some people discussing it may have 100 images and others have 10.000. When someone who submits for about 3 months gets absolutely ecstatic because he/she made $50 in a month and contradict people that have data going back 12 years or more and make many hundreds or thousands of dollars per month.


« Reply #49 on: February 20, 2018, 04:25 »
+3
For those who are capped why not stop uploading and use the time more productively?  If your content is really so good SS will see declining sales and customer dissatisfaction and do something about it.


 

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