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Author Topic: I need 6,000+ images but don't want to use a stock agency  (Read 3336 times)

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« on: June 11, 2019, 09:52 »
+2
Hi everybody!

I recently had the pleasure of chatting with Alexandre Rotenberg (Brasilnut) who directed me to this forum. He suggested I should ask for your feedback, so here goes:

Currently there isnt an online visual dictionary that is very good, so I aim to (maybe foolishly) change that. I assume that (most of) you are familiar with the concept of a visual dictionary, but in short it allows you to find the name of things you only know what they look like, or vice versa it allows you to find the image of things you only know what they are called.

The initial target audience is schools/students, parents with young children and refugees/immigrants. But basically its anyone who wants or needs to learn a language, or just curious people, like myself, that want to know what stuff is called.

One of the key aspects of a visual dictionary, you guessed it, is images. Without images the whole concept is silly. So in order to make this platform a reality I need a few thousand of them. Any respectable paper visual dictionary has at least 6000 images, so that is sort of my reference. I started searching for images on free stock sites, and while there is a lot of content available, I found theres also a lot I cant find. For what I could not find on free stock sites I turned to Google images. But just grabbing images from Google is a can of worms and could potentially be harmful in terms of copyrighted content. The last thing I want is to get sued for unauthorized usage of copyrighted material, so that is not an option. There are currently images on the platform that I will need to, and going to replace before I run into any legal problems.

I could try to shoot the images I need myself, but that is undoable if I want to launch anything remotely useful this century. Also I would essentially be reinventing the wheel because the image Im looking for already exists. That leaves only one realistic option, and that is using paid stock images. Within this option, I see 2 possible scenarios:

1) Buy images from a stock site
I looked into several plans offered by different stock sites, but nothing really covers my specific use case. Furthermore, the cost for any customized plan would be crazy high and would not be an option for a website that does not generate any income whatsoever (yet). There would be however a huge pool of material and I think I could cover every term/expression with this material.

2) Buy images directly from stock photographers
This sounds the most appealing because this would eliminate the stock site middleman. Also, I gathered that royalties from these sites are not that great, and I *may* be able to give a better price per used image. There is however a huge but. Photographers may not want to deal with any hassle of the whole administration process. I havent figured out yet how to create a process that is smooth and easy, and Im pretty sure I can tackle that, but I think that may be a big hurdle.


So what I would to get your honest feedback on:

1) Would you be willing to participate in this platform?

2) What would you consider a fair royalty per used image?

3) What type of licensing would you prefer? I can think of 3 options:
    1: single fee at the start of license
    2: yearly renewal
    3: fee per x amount of views

Ultimately I would like to find a pricing/licensing structure that photographers are comfortable with, and make this platform a reality. I have already started working on it and you can find it at https://pixxionary.com/nl (I'm directing to the Dutch version because it's a bit more complete, but you can switch to English on top of the page).

Looking forward to feedback!


« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2019, 10:26 »
+1
Congratulations, interesting project.



The photographers here, we are professionals who move at very low prices. That said, the investment is strong and the project ambitious.

It is a suitable site, but you lack the option to collaborate selflessly, free, with the promotional link to the website, the photographer's portfolio, or simply a voluntary donation of collaboration with the project. You do not need an image that fights for any prize.


I like the project, a lot.

« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2019, 11:17 »
+7
So what I would to get your honest feedback on:

1) Would you be willing to participate in this platform?

2) What would you consider a fair royalty per used image?

3) What type of licensing would you prefer? I can think of 3 options:
    1: single fee at the start of license
    2: yearly renewal
    3: fee per x amount of views


1. Sure, a sale is a sale.
2. I license web images on my Photoshelter site for $5.  Somewhere around that, or less for bulk.
3. You want RF.  Pay it once and be done.  You don't want to manage payments on that sort of collection.

« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2019, 13:17 »
+1
Apologies for the naive question but i don't got it.
I see something that i don't know it's name, raise phone, "click" search by image, voila!
And vice versa, i write im address bar "word" and select image or video results.

In time perhaps you will also need and videos, no single image can describe e.g. how four stroke engine works.

Eitherway you sound dedicated to the project and i wish you best of luck and success! :)

Brasilnut

  • Author Brutally Honest Guide to Microstock & Blog

« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2019, 15:56 »
+1
Hi Gavin,

Thanks for the mention and welcome.

I think it's a great idea and cutting out the middlemen is something that we, contributors, can only dream of since we're constantly being taken for a ride with lower and lower royalties (generally speaking).

1. With this scenario in the backdrop, would be great to work with you to further your project.

2. Since the usage is digital and educational...I believe that $1 per image would be fair, assuming the sales are in bulk. For a one-off then $5 is reasonable, as Sean has indicated. I'd be willing to be flexible though and since there is no middle-men, more room to negotiate.

3. Most simple as possible would be welcome. We don't care much for admin as I doubt you do as well. I don't think pay per view is practical either and from looking at my Connect royalties for those, it's too little for us to be interesting (unless you can offer substantially more)

Best of luck with this venture and let's keep in touch!

Alex

« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2019, 16:29 »
+1
sounds good !  keep us in touch  ;)

« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2019, 16:52 »
+4
I don't expect I have much that would be useful for such a dictionary, but I'd be fine with licensing directly - I do that via my own site anyway.

Rather than Royalty Free, you might make it more palatable to get lower prices by having this license be in perpetuity and world wide, but for this dictionary project only (including updated editions over time). So if you decide to get into text books, for example, your cheap license would not cover you. And you couldn't put the images on the cover of Time magazine (if that's still around), and so on.

Lower price for fewer rights. No hassle with views or annual renewal or such - I agree with Sean that you can't realistically handle that sort of admin burden.

I realize there's an element of trust for you to stick to the terms of the license, but that's largely true for the stock agencies too (in that we know they pay lip service to enforcing the IP rules).

« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2019, 17:03 »
0
Congratulations, interesting project.



The photographers here, we are professionals who move at very low prices. That said, the investment is strong and the project ambitious.

It is a suitable site, but you lack the option to collaborate selflessly, free, with the promotional link to the website, the photographer's portfolio, or simply a voluntary donation of collaboration with the project. You do not need an image that fights for any prize.


I like the project, a lot.

Thank you for your kind words Tenebroso! If I understand you correctly you'd like to see an option where photographers can donate material in exchange for a link to their portfolio, right? This is true, there isn't an option like that, yet, but this is something that I could easily build in though. 

« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2019, 17:10 »
0
So what I would to get your honest feedback on:

1) Would you be willing to participate in this platform?

2) What would you consider a fair royalty per used image?

3) What type of licensing would you prefer? I can think of 3 options:
    1: single fee at the start of license
    2: yearly renewal
    3: fee per x amount of views


1. Sure, a sale is a sale.
2. I license web images on my Photoshelter site for $5.  Somewhere around that, or less for bulk.
3. You want RF.  Pay it once and be done.  You don't want to manage payments on that sort of collection.

Thanks for your feedback Sean! Just checked your work, awesome stuff!!

« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2019, 17:21 »
+1
Apologies for the naive question but i don't got it.
I see something that i don't know it's name, raise phone, "click" search by image, voila!
And vice versa, i write im address bar "word" and select image or video results.

In time perhaps you will also need and videos, no single image can describe e.g. how four stroke engine works.

Eitherway you sound dedicated to the project and i wish you best of luck and success! :)

Thanks georgep7!

You're right, you could just make a picture of something, do an imagesearch and you'll probably get the correct name. And vice versa you could indeed just type in a name and select image or video results. The thing is that Pixxionary is not an image search engine but so much more. There's context, related images, translations, (in the future) videos to show how stuff works or is used. Really, the goal is that it's so much more than just search for an image or a name, but that's probably version 3.0 or even 4.0. :-)

« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2019, 17:22 »
+1
Hi Gavin,

Thanks for the mention and welcome.

I think it's a great idea and cutting out the middlemen is something that we, contributors, can only dream of since we're constantly being taken for a ride with lower and lower royalties (generally speaking).

1. With this scenario in the backdrop, would be great to work with you to further your project.

2. Since the usage is digital and educational...I believe that $1 per image would be fair, assuming the sales are in bulk. For a one-off then $5 is reasonable, as Sean has indicated. I'd be willing to be flexible though and since there is no middle-men, more room to negotiate.

3. Most simple as possible would be welcome. We don't care much for admin as I doubt you do as well. I don't think pay per view is practical either and from looking at my Connect royalties for those, it's too little for us to be interesting (unless you can offer substantially more)

Best of luck with this venture and let's keep in touch!

Alex

Thank you so much Alex! We're definitely staying in touch!

« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2019, 01:33 »
+1
I think this is an interesting idea, but the first question that rises to my head is :  how would we photographers provide the images?  Most of us (like me) do not have their stock images on a personal website for sale, only at the stock agencies.  How would you choose? 

« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2019, 02:46 »
+1
1. I'm in, the project looks interesting.
2. I agree with the previous proposals, $ 1 per image if purchased in a group and $ 5 per single.
3. RF

« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2019, 02:58 »
0
I think this is an interesting idea, but the first question that rises to my head is :  how would we photographers provide the images?  Most of us (like me) do not have their stock images on a personal website for sale, only at the stock agencies.  How would you choose?

Hi Anyka,

Thank you for your reply! Actually this is the exact thing I was thinking about and I have thought of the following solution:

- photographers that want to offer their images provide me with their info and links to their content at the stock agency website(s)
- when I'm looking for images I go through the content at the agency website and collect whatever I need
- I then send the images to the photographer so he/she can provide me with the actual material
- payment follows

The process could probably be simplified further, but in a nutshell this is the idea. Would something like this work?

PS: Nederlands?
« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 03:06 by gavin »

« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2019, 03:57 »
0
Hi Anyka,

Thank you for your reply! Actually this is the exact thing I was thinking about and I have thought of the following solution:

- photographers that want to offer their images provide me with their info and links to their content at the stock agency website(s)
- when I'm looking for images I go through the content at the agency website and collect whatever I need
- I then send the images to the photographer so he/she can provide me with the actual material
- payment follows

The process could probably be simplified further, but in a nutshell this is the idea. Would something like this work?

PS: Nederlands?

Yes, you're right, that would be the only way to do it.  However, I think that would be against the rules of many stock agencies ?


P.S.:  Ja inderdaad, ik ben Nederlandstalig en woon in Antwerpen

« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2019, 04:28 »
0
Hi Anyka,

Thank you for your reply! Actually this is the exact thing I was thinking about and I have thought of the following solution:

- photographers that want to offer their images provide me with their info and links to their content at the stock agency website(s)
- when I'm looking for images I go through the content at the agency website and collect whatever I need
- I then send the images to the photographer so he/she can provide me with the actual material
- payment follows

The process could probably be simplified further, but in a nutshell this is the idea. Would something like this work?

PS: Nederlands?

Yes, you're right, that would be the only way to do it.  However, I think that would be against the rules of many stock agencies ?


P.S.:  Ja inderdaad, ik ben Nederlandstalig en woon in Antwerpen

I have no idea how these agreements with agencies work, but (I think) unless a photographer has made an exclusive deal with an agency there would not be any violation of the agreement. I mean, photographers can sell the same images through agency x and y, right? Or for instance they can sell the same images through their own website, right?

Or do agencies penalize photographers for selling content directly to customers? I would think not.

Or do you mean with 'against the rules' this: "when I'm looking for images I go through the content at the agency website and collect whatever I need", because with this I mean that I make an inventory of the images I would like to use. I would not be 'taking' anything literally.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 04:33 by gavin »

Brasilnut

  • Author Brutally Honest Guide to Microstock & Blog

« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2019, 04:31 »
0
Hi Anyka,

Thank you for your reply! Actually this is the exact thing I was thinking about and I have thought of the following solution:

- photographers that want to offer their images provide me with their info and links to their content at the stock agency website(s)
- when I'm looking for images I go through the content at the agency website and collect whatever I need
- I then send the images to the photographer so he/she can provide me with the actual material
- payment follows

The process could probably be simplified further, but in a nutshell this is the idea. Would something like this work?

PS: Nederlands?

Yes, you're right, that would be the only way to do it.  However, I think that would be against the rules of many stock agencies ?

I think it's fine as it's a public profile / link. Nothing confidential there.

Alternatively, you could email your subscribers with a list of types of images you're looking for and request them to send low resolution files which you can shortlist.


« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2019, 04:37 »
+1
Alternatively, you could email your subscribers with a list of types of images you're looking for and request them to send low resolution files which you can shortlist.

Exactly my thought Alex! But I was thinking more along the lines of publishing a list of what I need on the Pixxionary website and asking photographers for their input/low res images.

Basically the same ;-)

« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2019, 05:31 »
+1
Hi Gavin, sounds like a wonderful project. Be very interested innfollwiing your progress.

The solution you have of browsing portfolios and then contacted individuals directly sounds a win win for everybody apart from the agency. As a newbie its clear to me that agencies are not concerned about contributors so we have to work with the opportunities that present them selves.

Small but growing portfolio and would be keen to work with you. Also happy to try and shoot to order if you have gaps in your requirements.

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2019, 07:51 »
+3
Nice project, best to you and your success.

As I see the question, you are looking for illustrations and probably items and subjects, not the kind of art or concept images that most of us are producing already, I'd say $5 an image, for someone to create a shot for you, is fair to both. There aren't many illustrative one item images on the stock sites, that would be visual dictionary kind of material?

I don't know why a Shutterstock subscription wouldn't work for you, by the month. You could also come here and say what you are looking for and we could upload. Sure I'm only getting a sub sale, but you would have any of us interested, creating for what you need. Those who want to donate would also create and upload, make it entertaining, MSG competition.

And by all means, links to an artists portfolio or website as a payment would be attractive.


« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2019, 08:36 »
+2
Nice project, best to you and your success.

As I see the question, you are looking for illustrations and probably items and subjects, not the kind of art or concept images that most of us are producing already, I'd say $5 an image, for someone to create a shot for you, is fair to both. There aren't many illustrative one item images on the stock sites, that would be visual dictionary kind of material?

I don't know why a Shutterstock subscription wouldn't work for you, by the month. You could also come here and say what you are looking for and we could upload. Sure I'm only getting a sub sale, but you would have any of us interested, creating for what you need. Those who want to donate would also create and upload, make it entertaining, MSG competition.

And by all means, links to an artists portfolio or website as a payment would be attractive.

Hi Uncle Pete, thanks for your reply!

A monthly ShutterStock subscription would be just too expensive. Not sure what the actual cost would be but I reckon at least 1000-2000. For a website that is not generating any income, and no outlook on income in the near future it's just impossible (for me) to commit to a monthly recurring fee that high.

"There aren't many illustrative one item images on the stock sites, that would be visual dictionary kind of material?"
I disagree, there *are* a lot of single item images on stock sites. But I'm actually not looking for (isolated), single object images anymore because, while they look nice on a website with a white background, they provide little to no context. I prefer images where the context tells you more about for instance the size of something, or usage.

"And by all means, links to an artists portfolio or website as a payment would be attractive."
Best case scenario, Pixxionary will be seen by many eyes in the world (I like to dream big ;-)) so I think it's useful for photographers to have their link on the image page. But is this amongst photographers generally seen as an attractive option? Let's say we opt for links to portfolios as payment, and some time later Pixxionary becomes successful and generates income, wouldn't people feel like 'this guy is doing well because I and others submitted our images and all we got was a link to our portfolios'?

Noedelhap

  • www.colincramm.com

« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2019, 09:01 »
+1
Hi Gavin,

Not sure if you also need illustrations, but I can also provide you with vector images from my portfolio for a single payment per image ($5) or in bulk ($1 per image). (Also Dutch, by the way, so payment in is possible, via invoice.)

Let me know if you want illustrations and I'll pm you my portfolio.

« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2019, 09:15 »
+1
With all this Bait being tossed. ACTION SPEAKS LOUDER THAN WORDS.

« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2019, 09:20 »
+1
Explain more about payment. You said - payment follows

Does payment follow immediately after download, or months later? Payment should actually happen when the image is downloaded, like on the agencies.

« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2019, 09:26 »
+7
OP... you can count me out. Unforunately I do this for a living and need to turn a profit. Use creative commons if you want free. Seriously, the royalties we already get are pathetic enough, let alone running around sourcing and researching for images on your behalf for a few pennies. Not to be a joykill or anything, but photos cost money to produce, and researching for the images takes time.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 09:31 by Clair Voyant »


 

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