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Author Topic: I Think I'm Done  (Read 29009 times)

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Tror

« Reply #50 on: July 12, 2013, 13:59 »
+1
Tror ~
Your points are all valid, but I have a point 6, which is not being able to do anything like adequate customer service. A lot of the time I'm out of phone contact, even quite near home, far less internet; and I'm sometimes weeks out of phone/internet contact, even more out of secure internet access. Customers nowadays demand virtually instant, or at the very least next day, answers to enquiries. How do you deal with that?

I don't really have that problem, but I guess you'd have to hire someone, ask a friend, or partner up if you can't do it.
That would be 'hire someone', so probably I'd be even more quids out, and I'd probably be paying them for really little actual work. Finding someone I could trust to deal with financials ... big risk.
At the moment, I'm at home virtually all the time as we've got a huge garden project, but this is extremely unusual, especially if I were out and about shooting. Luckily the death of new files at iStock has coincided with this project, so I don't even feel I'm missing anything by not shooting stock.
Actually, I feel pretty much like the OP, but for me I don't see 'going it alone' as an option. Of course I realise other people have different circumstances.  3G is notoriously spotty and dead slow here, and 4G non-existent out of big cities (I'm out in the boonies).

...don`t be afraid of a project like this. I do not have a stock site yet, but I work with various other projects which require support. I was VERY nervous about those issues first too, but it is not much usually and no big deal. Maybe you find a partner which is in the same situation as you or some photographers will join and share such a project (actually a cool idea :D ). There lies opportunity in everything....


« Reply #51 on: July 12, 2013, 17:01 »
+3
To Sue and anyone else curious about the support aspect of running your own site, this is just my personal experience.  I started out selling independently over four years ago experimenting with various scripts, and never really had a problem.  When I got more serious I ran a CMS Account site for two and a half years (that got steady small sales) and averaged less than one email per month, never posted phone info. 

I have an active Ktools site that was one year old last month and I just checked, my support emails for the year were 16 total, and that site averages a dozen or so sales per week.  I'm hoping my Symbio site will be bigger but I don't anticipate a lot of support time either. 

People who are shopping online for images seem to be pretty self sufficient these days as long as the system is intuitive.  I've never posted a phone number on  personal stock sites and never had anyone ask for a number.  A contact form seems to be sufficient.

Not sure if that makes any difference, but it might be good to know for someone on the fence. To me being independent really makes the difference.  I'm currently super happy to be working on a series of illustration I plan to only upload on my symbio site and clipartof (honest people, with a small fair agency) and I'm very excited to see how sales go.  I haven't felt that way with the iStock's of the world in years.

I hope everyone in this thread finds some inspiration again, best of luck!

« Reply #52 on: July 15, 2013, 11:05 »
+4
Eventually microstock sites will realize that they lost all good talent, while only amateurs are left to contribute.  This will make them rethink their contribution payout model. I have been with microstock for some time, but my portfolio is very small, because microstock has never been my focus.  It pays for my daily coffee habits, but I've been long enough with microstock to see overtime how they have evolved. Fotolia is the worst in terms of algorithm experiments.  I can't tell you number of times they would tweak it causing some of my images go from 1 page to 300 page on specific search terms.  Where you are with specific search terms matters as much as contributor rate. 

lisafx

« Reply #53 on: July 15, 2013, 11:26 »
+10
Eventually microstock sites will realize that they lost all good talent, while only amateurs are left to contribute. 

This should be embroidered on a pillow in the office of every CEO of a major microstock company.   You have perfectly summed up the situation. 

The people running most of the major agencies really don't seem to see beyond the numbers of contributors to the quality of the portfolios. 

As the top producers drop out because all the royalty and price cuts make it unsustainable (yeah, there's that word) the content they never upload isn't going to be adequately replaced by enthusiastic amateurs. 

Even newbies aren't as enthusiastic about micro anymore.  They can see from the top producers that there isn't the future in it that there once was. 

Ron

« Reply #54 on: July 15, 2013, 11:33 »
+3
Eventually microstock sites will realize that they lost all good talent, while only amateurs are left to contribute. 

This should be embroidered on a pillow in the office of every CEO of a major microstock company.   You have perfectly summed up the situation. 

The people running most of the major agencies really don't seem to see beyond the numbers of contributors to the quality of the portfolios. 

As the top producers drop out because all the royalty and price cuts make it unsustainable (yeah, there's that word) the content they never upload isn't going to be adequately replaced by enthusiastic amateurs. 

Even newbies aren't as enthusiastic about micro anymore.  They can see from the top producers that there isn't the future in it that there once was.

There is a point in there. I am happy that I am an amateur uploading crapstock as my work is considered to be. At least I dont have any significant overhead, and I dont have any costly image productions. Just me and my cheap camera, shooting crapstock. I guess its good enough for the agencies. I cant imagine producing all these costly superb images for 15-30% royalty or 38 cent or whatever. I see 123 and BS and FT selling images for 16 cent. Honestly, the images are so undervalued. We are all suffering from the Stockholm Syndrome.

lisafx

« Reply #55 on: July 15, 2013, 11:41 »
+2
There is a point in there. I am happy that I am an amateur uploading crapstock as my work is considered to be. At least I dont have any significant overhead, and I dont have any costly image productions. Just me and my cheap camera, shooting crapstock.

Ron, I hope it didn't sound like I was trashing newer members or amateurs.  Most produce very good work - not crapstock at all - or they wouldn't have qualified for the agencies. 

What I meant was just what you said about not wanting to invest time and money in expensive shoots, nor producing a large volume of HCV images. 

Five years or more ago, a lot of us who started out as enthusiastic newbies saw the top producers doing very well and knew that with hard work and talent, we could be similarly rewarded.  Now I don't think a lot of newbies feel that way, and for good reason. 

Ron

« Reply #56 on: July 15, 2013, 11:48 »
+1
There is a point in there. I am happy that I am an amateur uploading crapstock as my work is considered to be. At least I dont have any significant overhead, and I dont have any costly image productions. Just me and my cheap camera, shooting crapstock.

Ron, I hope it didn't sound like I was trashing newer members or amateurs.  Most produce very good work - not crapstock at all - or they wouldn't have qualified for the agencies. 

What I meant was just what you said about not wanting to invest time and money in expensive shoots, nor producing a large volume of HCV images. 

Five years or more ago, a lot of us who started out as enthusiastic newbies saw the top producers doing very well and knew that with hard work and talent, we could be similarly rewarded.  Now I don't think a lot of newbies feel that way, and for good reason.
No no no, I wasnt thinking that you said that.  :) I truly meant MY work is considered to be crapstock. I have been told in not so many words by several members on the SS forum.

I dont even see the rewards as being fair for what I produce. But I can live with it to some point as I have no cost. Just hoping that the buyers do like my work and buy from me directly.

I just cant wait to get the 6D and get on with it.  :)

« Reply #57 on: July 15, 2013, 11:51 »
+4
The people running most of the major agencies really don't seem to see beyond the numbers of contributors to the quality of the portfolios.

There does seem to be a bit of a disconnect. I think they recognize there has been an evolution in quality at their sites, but I think they may fail to recognize an evolution in expectations of the contributors as that quality has increased.

« Reply #58 on: July 15, 2013, 13:22 »
+3
No no no, I wasnt thinking that you said that.  :) I truly meant MY work is considered to be crapstock. I have been told in not so many words by several members on the SS forum.

You have been told that only by one member who also happens to be an extreme snob. His opinion doesnt matter, forget about that crapstock thing, you have great photos.

Ron

« Reply #59 on: July 15, 2013, 13:56 »
0
No no no, I wasnt thinking that you said that.  :) I truly meant MY work is considered to be crapstock. I have been told in not so many words by several members on the SS forum.

You have been told that only by one member who also happens to be an extreme snob. His opinion doesnt matter, forget about that crapstock thing, you have great photos.
Its been mentioned by more people, not only him. It did put a doubt in me, asking myself if I could justify setting up my own website. I dont want to drag the work down of other shooters. I am not a professional photographer, so when someone is,  telling me my work is laughable, I question myself.
But thanks anyway, its appreciated.

« Reply #60 on: July 15, 2013, 15:58 »
+7
I don't know...amateur photography is what microstock was founded on isn't it. Couldn't it be argued that the folks doing big costly production are selling them self short in the microstock market anyway? I have professional studio photography experience, but for microstock work it's just me and my camera. A lot of it is on the fly, fun, and experimenting. There is not enough money in it for me to pay a model or do an elaborate studio setup...anyway even though I have the experience, I consider myself a hobbiest these days as far as my microstock work goes.

« Reply #61 on: July 15, 2013, 16:47 »
-1
well, what did you guys expected ? it was obvious for everyone on RM how micro would first kill RM and then kill micro shooters too.

i was saying the same sh-it since many years just to get banned and called names and now you all agree with me.
too little too late.

ironically i still see some opportunities in micro for some types of imagery that dont sell well on RM agencies, micro is here to stay but it's gonna be very hard to make a living with it alone.

« Reply #62 on: July 15, 2013, 16:50 »
0
besides, Yuri leaving micros is clearly a sign of the times and the nail in the coffin.

« Reply #63 on: July 15, 2013, 16:55 »
-2
besides, Yuri leaving micros is clearly a sign of the times and the nail in the coffin.

try again

Ed

« Reply #64 on: July 15, 2013, 19:29 »
+1
I left two years ago...accounts are still active (I can log into them) at a few micro agencies.  I haven't looked back.

Shoot what you love and upload the images to macro agencies.
Take the attitude that if they don't accept the image, then it's their loss - here's the deal, agencies want exclusivity these days (ask anyone that owns an agency and they'll tell you this).
Don't sweat the money...just keep shooting and build that portfolio.  The sales will come with time and believe it or not, other opportunities will come with time as well.


shudderstok

« Reply #65 on: July 15, 2013, 20:11 »
+5
@ dingles - I don't know...amateur photography is what microstock was founded on isn't it absolutely my friend, all these amateurs showing the pros how it's done. laughable. that said there are some * good amateurs out there that the micros gave a chance too succeed. i applaud those that took advantage of this. good job. micros though are still full of amateurs who have this amazing sense of entitlement in regards to making a living.

@ xanox - well, what did you guys expected ? it was obvious for everyone on RM how micro would first kill RM and then kill micro shooters too.

absolutely my friend. anyone who was a true professional stock shooter before the day of microstock could see this one coming. the micros started to cannibalize the RM agencies, and now it is starting to cannibalize itself. i too have been lambasted for saying the very same thing. always from the microstock crowd and never from the traditional agency crowd.

@ lisafx - Most produce very good work - not crapstock at all - or they wouldn't have qualified for the agencies.  i'd say many produce good work, and most produce crapstock, and very few great work. anyone can get into the microstock agencies, there is no real barrier to do so. show me three photos and pass a ten question multiple choice test hardly qualifies as being a professional/good/great photographer. this whole lenient process of allowing almost everyone into microstock and the total lack of editing of images has flooded the market and help destroy a once very lucrative business.

@ lisafx - enthusiastic newbies saw the top producers doing very well and knew that with hard work and talent, we could be similarly rewarded.  Now I don't think a lot of newbies feel that way, and for good reason. hard work and talent will still reward you. that is the difference between a hobbyist and a professional - staying power and producing lots of work using talent and hard work. trying to build a career on microstock sites is nuts, you start out by selling yourself short from the get go. sure a few people made tons of money by being in the right spot at the right time, but the ones who are talented are opting to get out of micros for the reason being the actual amount made per download is not enough. also at this time, microstock was the buzzword of the day, take photos and make millions, and always using yuri as an example. nowhere did any of these get rich quick articles for soccer moms ever say it is a full time job that requires full time effort, continual skill building, continual equipment/software upgrades etc. stock is and always has been about long hours of hard work and talent.


EmberMike

« Reply #66 on: July 15, 2013, 21:05 »
+2
...i was saying the same sh-it since many years just to get banned and called names and now you all agree with me...

I don't think anyone is agreeing with the sentiment that micro was going to kill the industry. This discussion is about microstock agencies making it impossible for artists to make a living anymore. A few years ago it was possible to not only achieve success in microstock but to thrive, to grow your income. Now it's nearly impossible just to maintain previous income levels, forget about growing income. And it's all to do with agency greed, changes to policy, rate cuts, etc.

You're talking about a completely different topic. All that stuff in the past was about penny stock, dollar stock, the "race to the bottom", microstock undercutting traditional RF, etc. It's not the race to the bottom that's killing microstock. What is happening now isn't what was being predicting years ago.

If you were predicting this, the clawbacks, cuts, SS IPO, threat of investor loyalty, referral program cuts, BigStock RC system, massive growth alongside unprecedented greed, then you've got a mighty fine crystal ball in your hands.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2013, 21:12 by EmberMike »


quailrunphoto

« Reply #67 on: July 15, 2013, 22:11 »
+2
No no no, I wasnt thinking that you said that.  :) I truly meant MY work is considered to be crapstock. I have been told in not so many words by several members on the SS forum.

You have been told that only by one member who also happens to be an extreme snob. His opinion doesnt matter, forget about that crapstock thing, you have great photos.
Its been mentioned by more people, not only him. It did put a doubt in me, asking myself if I could justify setting up my own website. I dont want to drag the work down of other shooters. I am not a professional photographer, so when someone is,  telling me my work is laughable, I question myself.
But thanks anyway, its appreciated.

After looking at your portfolio, all I can say is you have some pretty nice crap.  Gives me a goal to shoot for.  So ignore the naysayers, shoot away and enjoy.

 

tab62

« Reply #68 on: July 15, 2013, 22:48 »
0
well if you weren't going to quite PP on iStock might be the final push over the cliff...

« Reply #69 on: July 15, 2013, 23:58 »
0
besides, Yuri leaving micros is clearly a sign of the times and the nail in the coffin.

Just a week ago I still saw his port on DP so he hasn't left them all entirely.  Only reason I know that is the monthly email and one of his images was featured.

Micro sure as hell isn't sustaining me right now.  No matter what I do no matter how many images I upload the return is extremely pitiful.

« Reply #70 on: July 16, 2013, 01:07 »
+8
well, what did you guys expected ? it was obvious for everyone on RM how micro would first kill RM and then kill micro shooters too.

i was saying the same sh-it since many years just to get banned and called names and now you all agree with me.
too little too late.

ironically i still see some opportunities in micro for some types of imagery that dont sell well on RM agencies, micro is here to stay but it's gonna be very hard to make a living with it alone.

Your RM wisdom amounted to "we don't want competition, we don't want the world to change". You weren't the only ones who saw that it probably wouldn't be a job for life but what you are overlooking is the 100,000+ that I've shoved in my back pocket thanks to microstock (and which now yields 5% per year in interests). Your argument that we would all have been better off if you had had that 100k instead of me is a crock of nonsense. You would have been. I wouldn't.

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #71 on: July 16, 2013, 02:17 »
+1
besides, Yuri leaving micros is clearly a sign of the times and the nail in the coffin.
Just a week ago I still saw his port on DP so he hasn't left them all entirely.  Only reason I know that is the monthly email and one of his images was featured.
He hasn't left the micros. iS is still a micro and has just cut the prices of half its files to underline this. Also, his deal with iS/getty, didn't prevent his pics remaining in the PP, undeniably low-cost micro.

« Reply #72 on: July 16, 2013, 02:30 »
+7
besides, Yuri leaving micros is clearly a sign of the times and the nail in the coffin.
Just a week ago I still saw his port on DP so he hasn't left them all entirely.  Only reason I know that is the monthly email and one of his images was featured.
He hasn't left the micros. iS is still a micro and has just cut the prices of half its files to underline this. Also, his deal with iS/getty, didn't prevent his pics remaining in the PP, undeniably low-cost micro.

Remember the kerfuffle a few years back when an iS inspector was found to have forgotten to deactivate three or four images that she had put up on Canstock? Makes yer laugh now, to think how seriously people took her vile infringement of exclusivity!

« Reply #73 on: July 16, 2013, 02:39 »
+2
...i was saying the same sh-it since many years just to get banned and called names and now you all agree with me...


I don't think anyone is agreeing with the sentiment that micro was going to kill the industry. This discussion is about microstock agencies making it impossible for artists to make a living anymore. A few years ago it was possible to not only achieve success in microstock but to thrive, to grow your income. Now it's nearly impossible just to maintain previous income levels, forget about growing income. And it's all to do with agency greed, changes to policy, rate cuts, etc.

You're talking about a completely different topic. All that stuff in the past was about penny stock, dollar stock, the "race to the bottom", microstock undercutting traditional RF, etc. It's not the race to the bottom that's killing microstock. What is happening now isn't what was being predicting years ago.

If you were predicting this, the clawbacks, cuts, SS IPO, threat of investor loyalty, referral program cuts, BigStock RC system, massive growth alongside unprecedented greed, then you've got a mighty fine crystal ball in your hands.


well, it's a shame Alamy closed down the old forum, there was even a "The Stock Industry" section years ago, mostly devoted to bashing microstock and with plenty of "micro is killing the industry" threads.

as for making a living, actually i blame more the oversaturation rather than the cheap prices.
saturation and over supply mean less downloads per image and that means less money at the end of the day, killing the whole "sell cheap, sell many times" mantra at the foundation of the whole micro concept.

there's just no more space for everyone in micros to stay afloat and make a good living.

and by the way, we're still having it better than musicians and writers, if selling an image for 0.50$ is a disgrace, what about selling a whole ebook or a song for 0.99$ on iTunes or Amazon ?

i've just read yesterday about that, the singer or Radiohead pulling out all their music from Spotify in protest for ridicolous royalty fees (with bands like Pink Floyd reporting a net profit of just 5000$/year !), if they can't make money with it, who will ?

Thom Yorke pulls albums from Spotify
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23313445


that's a sort of "strike" microstockers should try before or later while also making sure it hits the headlines of at least the major photo sites and blogs.






« Reply #74 on: July 16, 2013, 02:53 »
-1
@ xanox - well, what did you guys expected ? it was obvious for everyone on RM how micro would first kill RM and then kill micro shooters too.

absolutely my friend. anyone who was a true professional stock shooter before the day of microstock could see this one coming. the micros started to cannibalize the RM agencies, and now it is starting to cannibalize itself. i too have been lambasted for saying the very same thing. always from the microstock crowd and never from the traditional agency crowd.

the micro crowd had it easy in the beginning, all they could see were booming sales and the RF/RM agencies crashing and burning, they were all feeling it was the beginning of a new era and that they were at the right place at the right time.

they even coined some new words like "trads" and "macrosaurs" to joke on us, and any criticism on the micro was seen as trolling.

and now finally they're reaping what they sow, guess it will be a very hard lesson for many here.

however, as i wrote before, we're still having it better than in other creative industries, at least for a while because who knows what the major agencies have in store for the future, i can't believe the acual situation could go on forever with such cheap prices and cheap fees and there will be also a few M&As shaking the industry, maybe SS buying FT or DT or 3-4 second-tier agencies ? Alamy doing some bold move and entering microstock with millions of junk images they cant sell as RM ? we will see .. interesting times ahead but at the moment SS is the breadwinner.

 


 

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