Author Topic: I Think I'm Done (Read 29369 times)

djpadavona · « **on:** July 11, 2013, 13:56 »

This has been coming on for a few years now. I think I've had it with stock altogether. The relationships with these agencies is abysmal. In the last 2 years I have had my commissions cut by iStock twice, and now with the new pricing program I barely make 50 cents per download. Bigstock turned most of my on demand sales into very low paying subs, and 123RF made a similar move. Fotolia made so many anti-contributor moves that I removed my portfolio 18 months ago and haven't considered ever doing business with them again.

Who's next? SS? DT? Should I even care?

On one hand I could keep my ports up and let the money continue to flow in at a reduced rate every month as commissions keep getting slashed. But I'm pretty much getting raped every month. I don't see the agencies I supply images to working hard enough on my behalf to justify keeping 70%, 80% or more of the profit.

Sure this is just a rant, but I'm pretty serious about it. My heart isn't in it. I feel like I'm getting swindled. I certainly can't say I enjoy "shooting stock." So maybe it is time to just be done with it and let somebody else take the abuse.

A lot of people told me a few years ago, "Just walk away from it for a while." Well I did. From January until April of this year, I barely ever checked my sales. Stopped shooting stock altogether. Only made a few posts here. Then I came back after spring and made one last go of it, and I realize now that I simply detest most of these agencies and don't find anything about stock to be interesting or enjoyable. And the commission cuts just keep coming, and coming.

Thoughts? Anyone feel the same?

elvinstar · « **Reply #1 on:** July 11, 2013, 14:11 »

I feel your pain. I've only uploaded 11 images in the past 2 years. I'm spending my time building my main business and counting the infrequent payouts from the other agencies as "extra" money, not something that I count on.

I can say that I'm much less stressed by the changes that I read about here!

It seems to me that someone as talented and intelligent as yourself will find other ways of making money that make you happier.

I wish you all the best!

Ron · « **Reply #2 on:** July 11, 2013, 14:12 »

I am not long enough in stock Dan, and I am an amateur, but I think I know what you mean. I actually got a bit of the same feeling, working so hard to shoot these images and process them and see the crap results. I like my own photos. I LOVE photography. I went to London this year to meet up with a few SS contribs. Great fun. But I am now sitting on some of the photos, not knowing what to do. Do I upload them to the agencies or not? Good images, for peanuts? Also the work that goes into processing these images and dealing with all these crap uploaders, editors, different keyword requirements, bugs, etc, it takes SOOOOO much time, and for what. 30 cents here, 25 cents there.

BUT.... ever since I have my Symbiostock site I feel the fun in uploading coming back. Uploading to my own site, and keeping my images exclusive to my site and keeping 100% royalty is a good feeling. Photography became so much more attractive again. I am doing fairly well on FAA, if I only get a few sales per month on my own site, I can drop all mid tier agencies, and just keep SS, FT and 123 as my top earners.

Honestly, stock photography became fun again because of Symbiostock.

cthoman · « **Reply #3 on:** July 11, 2013, 14:23 »

I don't blame you. I'm surprised there hasn't been more of this. I'd probably feel the same way, but I have a few smaller illustration agencies that keep the machine running.

I figured that at some point there would be a split between the volume stock crowd-sourced model and a more restrictive higher priced model (like a Stocksy). But, the Stocksy-type model just hasn't really popped up yet. So, I'm starting to wonder if that is ever going to happen in a more broad way. Most new start ups are more of the same buy images for nothing and get paid even less models.

I can definitely understand your frustration. I've been working to change things, but I could definitely use some help on the agency side. This summer seems to have been extra slow too, so that isn't helping either.

stockastic · « **Reply #4 on:** July 11, 2013, 14:39 »

I feel like I learned how to do good microstock, my acceptance percentage is high, I understand the quality standards and what they're looking for. Just about all my photos sell, some pretty frequently. I could do lots more. But the returns are just too low - spending an hour on a photo that eventually makes $3 over a couple of years isn't very motivating. I can't come up with enough big sellers.

And the icing on the cake is that commissions are only going lower, so the odds of your work ultimately paying off are even lower.

Many people seem to be pinning their hopes on SS because that company is 'successful' in the sense that it's made a ton of money for it's founder (and probably other insiders) but that isn't going to translate into higher returns for contributors - in fact just the opposite, because they just sold a boatload of overvalued stock, and new investors will be hammering on management to increase profits.

Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #5 on:** July 11, 2013, 14:40 »

I understand the feeling - that the agencies have become by and large entities that are no longer our partners and often our adversaries. If you read about publishers and their go-arounds with amazon, you see a similar theme. Once amazon was small and the supplicant. Now it's the massive gorilla and is squeezing its suppliers whenever it can. Microstock agencies once treated their contributors better because they needed them. Now they believe we're a dime a dozen and can be treated like salt mine laborers.

I walked away from iStock over the lack of opt out on the Google Drive scam and from BigStock because of the lack of opt out on the crappy subs deal. I fully expect SS to implement the BigStock royalty model at some point, and great though the earnings are, if SS cuts my royalties, I'll leave them too.

I shoot what I want when I have the time. I can't change the agencies, but I've decided to just end abusive relationships rather than put up with them. I'm very fortunate that this isn't a full time gig for me - I realize that gives me options others don't have.

djpadavona · « **Reply #6 on:** July 11, 2013, 14:42 »

I had about 10 images waiting to upload to the agencies this week, and I said to heck with it. Uploaded all of them to my Symbiostock site instead. I'm not holding my breath for my own site to begin producing a steady cash flow, but at this point it's really the only connection I wish to have to stock anymore.

djpadavona · « **Reply #7 on:** July 11, 2013, 14:47 »

Quote from: jsnover on July 11, 2013, 14:40

I fully expect SS to implement the BigStock royalty model at some point, and great though the earnings are, if SS cuts my royalties, I'll leave them too.

I fully expect it too, and have said as much more than once since the Bigstock implementation. The U.S. has not experienced bear market in stocks since early 2009. The next time it happens, Shutterstock's shares will follow the market down. At that point, a lot of shareholders will sell in fear. Many of those who hold on to their shares will demand higher earnings to justify the increased market risk. And when that happens, SS will have two choices -

1) Ignore shareholders and let them sell, forcing the share price even lower
2) Placate them by finding ways to be more profitable.

It's almost always #2, and I think we can guess the easiest way for them to increase margins and earnings instantly.

Anita Potter · « **Reply #8 on:** July 11, 2013, 15:23 »

You're not alone. This year has been particularly terrible as far as downloads and revenue are concerned. And I agree this summer is way slower than previous ones and the way the market and economy are the suppliers are the ones that get the short end of everything. New images that used to sell right out of the gate aren't going anywhere which isn't very motivating on our end to keep going. I'm on around 11 sites of which I only upload to about 6. The others just aren't worth my time anymore.

Leave your ports and definitely start working and building on your own. I'm pretty sure that the satisfaction of building your own is far higher than the frustrations surrounding the agencies. And hopefully a lot less stress too since you only have to upload to one place. Once my situation improves I'll probably do the same. I'm also sure that there are others that have already done this too.

I wish you the best of luck.

Ron · « **Reply #9 on:** July 11, 2013, 15:24 »

I believe the IPO was to raise money to explore other markets, not sure what they meant by that. But imagine Shutterstock lowering the commissions, and contribs leave in drones. They will be replaced by shooters from the unexplored markets such as Asia, Middle East, Africa. SS has a database of 27 millions images, how many depict western culture? They dont need more of that. The photogs and images from these regions will add value to the library and are probably happy with any royalty they get. No disrespect. What I want to say is, Shutterstock is not going to lose this tug-o-war, if it ever becomes one.

chromaco · « **Reply #10 on:** July 11, 2013, 15:26 »

Funny thing about having your own site. You start getting real picky about which agencies you want to share your images with. The sub sites start looking less and less attractive every time you get a sale on your own site. I pretty much only contribute new images to a few (maybe 3) smaller sites that pay really well. I just can't get myself to upload to the sub sites anymore. The self hosted train has just started rolling and it is starting to pick up some steam. Eventually "self hosted" is going to start showing up in the poll results and as soon as it does people are going to start realizing that they need to get on board or they are going to be left behind. Once that happens contributors will start curating their portfolios and the agencies that don't pay a reasonable commission will start losing those images.
I don't buy the argument that contributors are a dime a dozen and for every one that leaves there are 10 more ready to replace them. As far as overall contributors that may be correct but if you adjust that to "quality contributors" then the story changes dramatically. It is the quality contributors that are going to take the time to build their own sites and are going to see positive results. When enough "quality contributors" stop adding images to the agencies or even start removing them, the agencies are going to be in trouble. Customers will start realizing that the best images are no longer with the large agencies and they will get used to looking elsewhere.

Dan, don't give up just yet... just adjust your focus. Change is coming. You are just at the forefront of it. Others will follow, it's just a matter of time. 55 new self hosted sites in 6 months is pretty impressive. I bet that number is 200 by the end of the year. I said it two years ago that "the future is in the little guys". I still believe that but I will amend it to include "self hosted" as well.

gbalex · « **Reply #11 on:** July 11, 2013, 15:38 »

Quote from: djpadavona on July 11, 2013, 14:47

Quote from: jsnover on July 11, 2013, 14:40
I fully expect SS to implement the BigStock royalty model at some point, and great though the earnings are, if SS cuts my royalties, I'll leave them too.

I fully expect it too, and have said as much more than once since the Bigstock implementation. The U.S. has not experienced bear market in stocks since early 2009. The next time it happens, Shutterstock's shares will follow the market down. At that point, a lot of shareholders will sell in fear. Many of those who hold on to their shares will demand higher earnings to justify the increased market risk. And when that happens, SS will have two choices -

1) Ignore shareholders and let them sell, forcing the share price even lower
2) Placate them by finding ways to be more profitable.

It's almost always #2, and I think we can guess the easiest way for them to increase margins and earnings instantly.

They have no loyalty to the submitters who provided the assets that made them successful. In fact they have been successfully killing off their best sellers. I don't think SS is at all worried that those submitters are not happy or that they counted on those funds.

I fully expect to see them promoting submitter membership in areas where they can exploit the naivety of new submitters in low cost of living zones who will pony up the production cost's of new content just like we did. They know that if they entertain new submitters in those zones; in the longer term they can drive content prices down the furthest in those low cost of living zones. http://submit.shutterstock.com/forum/abt130174.html

I won't thank them for driving the price of our assets down, keeping the price of new assets stagnate for over 6 years and finally putting functionality in place to drive them down further via BS. They had a chance to reward HCV submitters with offset, but they chose to turn their backs on us in lieu of new submitters who had nothing to do with driving the initial growth or wealth for SS.

SS does not have to cut royalties at SS they only have to drive traffic to BS where they have accumulated pretty much the same images. I expect that large business deals will end up as BS subs.

Ron · « **Reply #12 on:** July 11, 2013, 15:49 »

Exactly what I meant to say, Gbalex, but you said it better.

gbalex · « **Reply #13 on:** July 11, 2013, 15:52 »

Quote from: Ron on July 11, 2013, 15:49

Exactly what I meant to say, Gbalex, but you said it better.

We must have been typing it at the same time.

You made a very good point "SS has a database of 27 millions images, how many depict western culture? They dont need more of that."

lisafx · « **Reply #14 on:** July 11, 2013, 15:57 »

I'm afraid I have to agree with Dan, and the majority here. Stock isn't worth expending a lot of effort on anymore.

I used to consistently upload over 1,000 pictures a year, and that represented a lot of work for me, as a one person operation. This year I will be lucky if I manage to upload 300-400 images.

I used to get really excited when I would have new stock ideas. Now I still get new ideas, but then I think of the effort and expense of producing, processing, and submitting them, and it just doesn't seem worth it. So the new ideas remain in my head until or unless it becomes worthwhile to create them.

If I had a day job, or a skill that would earn me a decent living, I would be preparing my exit strategy.

Ron · « **Reply #15 on:** July 11, 2013, 16:08 »

Quote from: chromaco on July 11, 2013, 15:26

Funny thing about having your own site. You start getting real picky about which agencies you want to share your images with. The sub sites start looking less and less attractive every time you get a sale on your own site. I pretty much only contribute new images to a few (maybe 3) smaller sites that pay really well. I just can't get myself to upload to the sub sites anymore. The self hosted train has just started rolling and it is starting to pick up some steam. Eventually "self hosted" is going to start showing up in the poll results and as soon as it does people are going to start realizing that they need to get on board or they are going to be left behind. Once that happens contributors will start curating their portfolios and the agencies that don't pay a reasonable commission will start losing those images.
I don't buy the argument that contributors are a dime a dozen and for every one that leaves there are 10 more ready to replace them. As far as overall contributors that may be correct but if you adjust that to "quality contributors" then the story changes dramatically. It is the quality contributors that are going to take the time to build their own sites and are going to see positive results. When enough "quality contributors" stop adding images to the agencies or even start removing them, the agencies are going to be in trouble. Customers will start realizing that the best images are no longer with the large agencies and they will get used to looking elsewhere.

Dan, don't give up just yet... just adjust your focus. Change is coming. You are just at the forefront of it. Others will follow, it's just a matter of time. 55 new self hosted sites in 6 months is pretty impressive. I bet that number is 200 by the end of the year. I said it two years ago that "the future is in the little guys". I still believe that but I will amend it to include "self hosted" as well.

Wonderfully spoken +1

Ron · « **Reply #16 on:** July 11, 2013, 16:18 »

Quote from: lisafx on July 11, 2013, 15:57

I'm afraid I have to agree with Dan, and the majority here. Stock isn't worth expending a lot of effort on anymore.

I used to consistently upload over 1,000 pictures a year, and that represented a lot of work for me, as a one person operation. This year I will be lucky if I manage to upload 300-400 images.

I used to get really excited when I would have new stock ideas. Now I still get new ideas, but then I think of the effort and expense of producing, processing, and submitting them, and it just doesn't seem worth it. So the new ideas remain in my head until or unless it becomes worthwhile to create them.

If I had a day job, or a skill that would earn me a decent living, I would be preparing my exit strategy.

I have uploaded my whole portfolio of 900 images in 4 weeks, I will be adding the last 30 tomorrow. I couldnt wait each day to get home from work and just get stuck in. I changed all titles, added keywords, worked on SEO, each and every image got done that way. I feel really good about it. If I now see a download of 30 cents on DP, I am laughing like a farmer with a toothache (Dutch expression, not sure what it is in English, I think its like laugh on the wrong side of the mouth). In the mean time I have put all agencies on hold. And I will only continue with SS, 123 and FT in one month. I had a sale through SYS and it immediately became my 4th earner, leaving GL, DP, CanStockPhoto and PD behind. If I get a few sales per month on SYS, its worth to drop the middle tier, do away with the agony of it all, and be a happy shooter.

ARTPUPPY · « **Reply #17 on:** July 11, 2013, 16:42 »

Dan - No, you're not alone in this - but you're not "trapped" either. You have your own symbiostock site so focus all your energies into that. Promote yourself, sell yourself as a brand. Work on your blog, write about your personal life. (Example - I didn't know Ronnie James Dio was your dad. What was it like growing up with him? Check out the site Dangerous Minds. They are currently doing a series of articles on "My dad was in a band" Here's one: http://dangerousminds.net/comments/new_on_my_dad_was_in_a_band_my_dad_is_dee_snider So submit a story and link to your website and what you do now. Who knows? With each new element, you'll get your presence known more and you could get more freelance work in the future.)
And where do you live? How may advertising agencies or design studios are in your city/town? Magazines and newspapers? Spend some time and sell yourself to them, print up some postcards offer to meet with them for an interview and view your work, etc. A little footwork can go a long way for freelance.

Unfortunately I hear of people who are just stopping with their uploading of images, and I think that's a bad move. At least you can keep building your portfolio and if you have to go independent, the better for you. Don't just stop working! You've got some great stuff.

Just remember the Old Philosopher - Play and repeat:


The Old Philosopher - Eddie Lawerence

lisafx · « **Reply #18 on:** July 11, 2013, 16:43 »

Sounds like a solid plan Ron

And I love your expression of laughing like a farmer with a toothache! We don't have any comparable expression, that I know of, but I still understand exactly what you mean. It gets the message across very well

PaulieWalnuts · « **Reply #19 on:** July 11, 2013, 17:10 »

Totally hear you Dan. Motivation comes from positive things like seeing sales growth and being rewarded. When all the positive go away money is the only motivation. When the money goes away, well, what's the reason to keep going?

Maybe you should look into other methods of selling your work and you might get that spark of drive back.

marthamarks · « **Reply #20 on:** July 11, 2013, 17:15 »

Quote from: ARTPUPPY on July 11, 2013, 16:42

Just remember the Old Philosopher - Play and repeat:

That is so fun. Well worth 3 minutes to listen to it. Thanks, ArtPuppy, for sharing!

jjneff · « **Reply #21 on:** July 11, 2013, 17:21 »

Been doing this full time for 3.5 years now. Quit not a chance, can't think of another job I would like more! I love the changes at iStock and am glad I stayed exclusive. If you love something it never feels like work.

Ron · « **Reply #22 on:** July 11, 2013, 17:22 »

The job is being a photographer, I dont think Dan doesnt like photography anymore.

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #23 on:** July 11, 2013, 17:22 »

Quote from: lisafx on July 11, 2013, 15:57

I'm afraid I have to agree with Dan, and the majority here. Stock isn't worth expending a lot of effort on anymore.

I used to consistently upload over 1,000 pictures a year, and that represented a lot of work for me, as a one person operation. This year I will be lucky if I manage to upload 300-400 images.

I used to get really excited when I would have new stock ideas. Now I still get new ideas, but then I think of the effort and expense of producing, processing, and submitting them, and it just doesn't seem worth it. So the new ideas remain in my head until or unless it becomes worthwhile to create them.

If I had a day job, or a skill that would earn me a decent living, I would be preparing my exit strategy.

I don't dare waste any time on the kind of fun, isolated, stocky type things. As I upload my existing work and see minimal sales, I can't see a reason to.

Jonathan Ross · « **Reply #24 on:** July 11, 2013, 17:43 »

Hi Dan,

I don't know a lot but I know one thing, change is a guarantee. Adapt or die has been hard wired in us from day one. If you can find a way to treat photography as something you love and look at the cash as an added bonus or not at all, then hopefully you will nurture back the passion you once had. I have been on top of the mountain and tumbled all the way down so I get it, took me four years to enjoy shooting again. It is sad but not uncommon to hear a person lose their passion for something by making it their job. Best of luck I hope that some day you can enjoy that art of creating images without the worry of income being part of the equation.

Best,
Jonathan

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Author Topic: I Think I'm Done (Read 29369 times)

djpadavona

elvinstar

Ron

cthoman

stockastic

Jo Ann Snover

djpadavona

djpadavona

Anita Potter

Ron

chromaco

gbalex

Ron

gbalex

lisafx

Ron

Ron

ARTPUPPY

lisafx

PaulieWalnuts

marthamarks

jjneff

Ron

Sean Locke Photography

Jonathan Ross

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