Author Topic: I will never complain about an agency again (Read 8552 times)

Elenathewise · « **on:** May 13, 2011, 18:02 »

I don't think I'll ever complain about a stock agency again. Now that I am selling images from my own site I understand how much time and pain in the ass it takes to deal with clients' special requests, questions, legal considerations, technical problems and so on. Not mentioning time and money needed to attract those customers to the site in the first place. You know, the cut that a good-selling agency takes is very well-deserved. We are lucky we can get money for our creative work and not be bothered with all that stuff. Seriously.
I think it was worth it getting my own site going just to realize that:)

cthoman · « **Reply #1 on:** May 13, 2011, 18:17 »

I actually feel the exact opposite. I'm amazed at the cut they take after running my own site. It's a lot of upfront work, but so was creating all the images to begin with. It has really made me realize how much untapped earning potential most of these agencies have if they were run differently.

stockastic · « **Reply #2 on:** May 13, 2011, 18:19 »

Good points. I have the technical ability to create the web site, but I'm pretty sure I lack the patience to deal directly with buyers and all their problems and issues. Hang in their, though, and you may find it gets easier.

lisafx · « **Reply #3 on:** May 13, 2011, 18:30 »

I think there should be a happy medium where the sites are compensated well for their efforts, and so are the contributors. Many excellent sites manage to do the balancing act well, and a few don't.

I think we all know examples of both types...

Elenathewise · « **Reply #4 on:** May 13, 2011, 18:32 »

Quote from: cthoman on May 13, 2011, 18:17

I actually feel the exact opposite. I'm amazed at the cut they take after running my own site. It's a lot of upfront work, but so was creating all the images to begin with. It has really made me realize how much untapped earning potential most of these agencies have if they were run differently.

I am glad you don't find it difficult, but I suspect you have certain type of customers, probably fellow graphic designers that understand the business and the work that goes into creating images. The use of your illustrations is also a bit limited. I don't want to go into gore details here but I had to deal with uses like printing images on bolts of fabric (how do you count number of impressions?

or using images in medical advertising campaigns with "sensitive" subjects, or someone wanting to re-license the image or other things like that which take time to figure out and follow through. Some people wanting to buy images never heard of stock photography so they have a lot of questions. Some want to con you. Some don't know how to use a website. Of course, I can choose not to reply or say "no" to all special requests but then what's the point of running your own site..

cthoman · « **Reply #5 on:** May 13, 2011, 18:59 »

Quote from: Elenathewise on May 13, 2011, 18:32

I am glad you don't find it difficult, but I suspect you have certain type of customers, probably fellow graphic designers that understand the business and the work that goes into creating images. The use of your illustrations is also a bit limited. I don't want to go into gore details here but I had to deal with uses like printing images on bolts of fabric (how do you count number of impressions? or using images in medical advertising campaigns with "sensitive" subjects, or someone wanting to re-license the image or other things like that which take time to figure out and follow through. Some people wanting to buy images never heard of stock photography so they have a lot of questions. Some want to con you. Some don't know how to use a website. Of course, I can choose not to reply or say "no" to all special requests but then what's the point of running your own site..

Definitely not easy and I completely understand. I'm use to a lot of the emails from freelance clients. You do a dozen back and forth emails just to never hear from the person again or people just looking for freebies. I had one guy even tell me that I wasn't Michelangelo after hearing my price quote. He did end up hiring me though.

I'm actually really patient and polite in emails. I know, I know... it's hard to believe, right?

You could adjust your prices to deal with the extra work. I've always questioned the micro logic of selling images based on size. I like the one size one price model better, although I did just add higher price point images (so maybe it's hypocritical to say that).

It's harder to get the volume of the micros, so it's nice to get more from each sale. I guess you'd have to look at your sales to see what works best. It's just a thought though.

I hope these personal agencies take off because I think it's a good thing. I looked through yours, Lisa's and others last time I bought an image. I wanted something specific, so I ended up buying at Canstock.

Elenathewise · « **Reply #6 on:** May 13, 2011, 19:36 »

Quote from: cthoman on May 13, 2011, 18:59

Definitely not easy and I completely understand. I'm use to a lot of the emails from freelance clients. You do a dozen back and forth emails just to never hear from the person again or people just looking for freebies. I had one guy even tell me that I wasn't Michelangelo after hearing my price quote. He did end up hiring me though. I'm actually really patient and polite in emails. I know, I know... it's hard to believe, right?

He he - exactly, a dozen emails or a custom use license that you spend half a day putting together and then you never hear from them again. I am also polite and considerate in my emails to customers but I think I need to reconsider taking special requests. If this is something not covered by an existing license the answer should be no (or I should say any special request will cost extra upfront) - it's just not cost effective to spend a couple of ours on discussion with a client who will buy a 5 dollar image in the end.
Thanks for looking though our the individual sites when you needed an image:)

visceralimage · « **Reply #7 on:** May 13, 2011, 20:02 »

Actually, what you are speaking of Elena is what we termed Rights Managed. Clients, usually editors for a magazine, would request an image, certain size and certain resolution, sometimes raw with no tweaks and other times with curves, adjustments, saturation, minor sharpening, etc.

This made the price of $325 and up worth a bit of effort; no way is it worth the effort for a couple dollars.

The beauty of a stock agency, either your own or a commercial agency, is the client chooses a set criteria that is available; there should be no custom work; custom adjustments should cost money.

PaulieWalnuts · « **Reply #8 on:** May 13, 2011, 20:14 »

Quote from: Elenathewise on May 13, 2011, 18:02

how much time and pain in the ass it takes to deal with clients' special requests, questions, legal considerations, technical problems and so on.

Amen sister. This is one of the biggest reasons I like the agency model. Not having to deal with clients. Chasing money, dealing with personalities, games, negotiating, yeech.

I will gladly pay a premium to not work directly with clients but I, like probably everybody else, think agencies take way too much of the pie.

Morphart · « **Reply #9 on:** May 13, 2011, 20:55 »

Quote from: PaulieWalnuts on May 13, 2011, 20:14

Quote from: Elenathewise on May 13, 2011, 18:02
how much time and pain in the ass it takes to deal with clients' special requests, questions, legal considerations, technical problems and so on.

Amen sister. This is one of the biggest reasons I like the agency model. Not having to deal with clients. Chasing money, dealing with personalities, games, negotiating, yeech.

I will gladly pay a premium to not work directly with clients but I, like probably everybody else, think agencies take way too much of the pie.

Those agencies also invest millions in publicity to keep alive, but I am sure with the profit they announce each year that there could be a better contributor consideration... but business being the way it is, unless they run out of files to sale because contributors remove their portfolios to get a better pay, I am not sure we will get a much better part of the pie.

I for one appeal a lot to the "no hassle with clients" part. Running my own graphic design company for 6 years now, dealing directly with clients, deadlines and employee, I am glad to be making slowly my switch out to full time microstock. I think the liberty you get doing what you like and getting paid in the same process is great. Yes it's still hard work and you have to commit to it, but if you love getting up in the morning with only you, you camera (or computer) to take care off, that's a blessing. ;p

Guess there would always be a love-hate story between contributors and agencies ;p.

PaulieWalnuts · « **Reply #10 on:** May 13, 2011, 21:15 »

Quote from: Morphart on May 13, 2011, 20:55

Those agencies also invest millions in publicity to keep alive

If an agency is making 100 million a year, and isn't satisfied or profitable with keeping 70-80 million of it, this entire industry is in big trouble.

Elenathewise · « **Reply #11 on:** May 13, 2011, 22:57 »

Quote from: Morphart on May 13, 2011, 20:55

Guess there would always be a love-hate story between contributors and agencies ;p.

Right now I am more on the "love" side after dealing with a few frustrating and time-consuming situations with clients...

It was never a "hate" for me - yeah I'd complain here and there, sometimes what they do just doesn't make any sense, sometimes they just want to squeeze more money out of you, we all know that, but it takes a little reality check of what it's like being completely on your own to appreciate their side of business. In ideal world everyone would be not greedy, responsible, and honest, and smart - but hey, then dealing with clients wouldn't be a problem, either!

helix7 · « **Reply #12 on:** May 13, 2011, 23:02 »

I have no issue with the agency model. I profit nicely from the business model and I have to credit the vast majority of my stock earnings from agencies. My site earns very little by comparison, and my new yet-to-be-launched site will hardly tip the scales in my favor either, despite being a huge improvement over my current site.

But that's not to say that I'm completely happy with the cut that some agencies take. No company in this business needs more than a 75% cut. Even 50% should be more than sustainable. I run my own site mostly to offer my work in a uniquely packaged way and at a price that is beneficial to both me and my customers. And maybe, just a little, to make a statement that despite it not being the most financially beneficial way to sell stock images, it's still possible to do it to some extent without the agencies.

There is something kind of special about the dollars that come in through my own site, and knowing that no big company is taking a cut of those dollars.

lagereek · « **Reply #13 on:** May 13, 2011, 23:42 »

My experience is that as you grow you will sooner or later need helpers, etc, maybe not employing but definetley help, then another problem will arise, staff! and believe me, this alone can create hellish problems. Keeping good people happy and above board is very difficult.

Keep at it though Elena, its a good thingy.

Elenathewise · « **Reply #14 on:** May 14, 2011, 11:48 »

Quote from: lagereek on May 13, 2011, 23:42

My experience is that as you grow you will sooner or later need helpers, etc, maybe not employing but definetley help, then another problem will arise, staff! and believe me, this alone can create hellish problems. Keeping good people happy and above board is very difficult.

Keep at it though Elena, its a good thingy.

Thanks:) So far I was able to keep it a family business, but yes growing would mean employing people and that is another pain! And then you end up dealing with administrative sh*t all the time and have less and less time for shooting... Looks like running a company and being a photographer would be very hard to do at the same time, you have to choose one or another.

cathyslife · « **Reply #15 on:** May 14, 2011, 14:17 »

Quote from: Elenathewise on May 14, 2011, 11:48

Quote from: lagereek on May 13, 2011, 23:42
My experience is that as you grow you will sooner or later need helpers, etc, maybe not employing but definetley help, then another problem will arise, staff! and believe me, this alone can create hellish problems. Keeping good people happy and above board is very difficult.

Keep at it though Elena, its a good thingy.
Thanks:) So far I was able to keep it a family business, but yes growing would mean employing people and that is another pain! And then you end up dealing with administrative sh*t all the time and have less and less time for shooting... Looks like running a company and being a photographer would be very hard to do at the same time, you have to choose one or another.

I had the same problem when I owned my own graphic design company in LA. At first, I had enough work to keep myself busy. It kept growing, which was a good thing. But soon working 14 hours a day wasn't enough and I had to hire other people. That brought a whole new set of problems...taxes, etc. Pretty soon, I was stuck doing bookwork, managing people, selling, delivering jobs, and servicing the customers. There wasn't even time for me to do the work I really enjoyed, which was designing. I ended up selling the company and going back to being an employee. It wasn't perfect, but I had a steady income doing what I loved doing...design and computer work.

wordplanet · « **Reply #16 on:** May 14, 2011, 14:50 »

I can't imagine how it would be worth the time and hassle to sell microstock from your own site. I was thinking of adding a few of my best-selling microstock photos to my site but figured I'd never get the volume to make it worthwhile. And the time factor you brought up is another strike against it.
For someone with a small portfolio like mine, RM licenses seem ideally suited to direct sales.
I think that the agency cuts are far larger than they need to be, but I do appreciate the opportunity to have my work seen by thousands of potential licensees and licensed by hundreds (and eventually thousands)-both RM and RF, macro and micro. I'm sure the agencies field the same kinds of calls and email enquiries you've noted on a much large scale.

I also agree that there is something very good about licensing a stock photo without a commission. I do a lot of editorial work, so dealing with editors is second nature and easy. They know what they're doing. When I work with small business clients, I find I often have to spend time explaining to them how things work and this can be time consuming, although, especially if they become a steady client, it pays off in the long run. There will always be the time-wasters who ask endless questions and never buy anything.

My site is set up so that clients can pick a license, pay for it and download it directly, but as an individual selling stock photos, I know that the more likely scenario is for someone to email me and discuss their needs. Magazines, for example, have a set range for what they will pay for a certain size and use, so you need to be ready to take a more hands-on approach when licensing photos directly.

In today's market I think that it's worthwhile to have many avenues for licensing images. For high volume RF sales, the agencies are probably cost-effective in the long run for most people, since they give you more time to shoot/design and mean you spend less time doing all the boring business-end tasks. My portfolio is small, however; with a large portfolio like Elena's it may well be worth the trouble of DIY, and the cost of hiring a good assistant, bookkeeper, etc. Over 11,000 images! Quite impressive. And beautiful work.

Good luck Elena - your site looks great ! and good luck to everyone else! Here's my site : www.campyphotos.com
My micro stuff is here: http://submit.shutterstock.com/?ref=223261 and here http://www.dreamstime.com/resp1092542-stock-pictures- very different than what I have on my own site www.campyphotos.com

madelaide · « **Reply #17 on:** May 14, 2011, 15:57 »

Custom work at microstock prices is something that doesn't make sense to me. It may make some sense when it is an easy request that has a lot of potential besides that single client.

Dealing with clients does not always result in a profit, but is a good thing anyway.

And of course agencies have a lot of work done for us, what doesn't mean they need to be so greedy...

Elenathewise · « **Reply #18 on:** May 14, 2011, 16:43 »

Quote from: madelaide on May 14, 2011, 15:57

Custom work at microstock prices is something that doesn't make sense to me. It may make some sense when it is an easy request that has a lot of potential besides that single client.

Dealing with clients does not always result in a profit, but is a good thing anyway.

And of course agencies have a lot of work done for us, what doesn't mean they need to be so greedy...

Oh I am not doing any custom work at micro prices - I charge RM prices for anything custom including licensing. Can't agree that dealing with clients is always a good thing - sometimes it makes you wanna scream and run around the room in a mad manner

Agencies will push down royalties as low as they possibly can without ruining their business - that's to be expected. Everyone wants to pay less and get more, I do too. But they can't push it too low - people would just stop uploading and the collection will go stale...

Elenathewise · « **Reply #19 on:** May 14, 2011, 16:46 »

Quote from: cclapper on May 14, 2011, 14:17

I had the same problem when I owned my own graphic design company in LA. At first, I had enough work to keep myself busy. It kept growing, which was a good thing. But soon working 14 hours a day wasn't enough and I had to hire other people. That brought a whole new set of problems...taxes, etc. Pretty soon, I was stuck doing bookwork, managing people, selling, delivering jobs, and servicing the customers. There wasn't even time for me to do the work I really enjoyed, which was designing. I ended up selling the company and going back to being an employee. It wasn't perfect, but I had a steady income doing what I loved doing...design and computer work.

Thanks for sharing that - I think I'd do the same.

borg · « **Reply #20 on:** May 16, 2011, 05:33 »

I have my private portfolio on Smugmug for a 4 months...
I spent a lot of money on Google Adwords, and also 16$ bucks every month on hosting, but till now, nothing! Not a single sale, but lot of views...
So, my conclusion is marketing is the hardest part of this business...

lagereek · « **Reply #21 on:** May 16, 2011, 07:37 »

Elena!

What exactly are you doing here? are we talking RM, RF and Micro, or what? are you doing what we call the "carting around youre port business"? you know AD-agencies, Graphic-people, etc.
Most important, are you seeing the right people? this is often the case, photographers dont meet the right people.

if you wish to talk, use my intern mail here, there are tricks of the trade here, micro doesnt even come into this marketing business.

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Author Topic: I will never complain about an agency again (Read 8552 times)

Elenathewise

cthoman

stockastic

lisafx

Elenathewise

cthoman

Elenathewise

visceralimage

PaulieWalnuts

Morphart

PaulieWalnuts

Elenathewise

helix7

lagereek

Elenathewise

cathyslife

wordplanet

madelaide

Elenathewise

Elenathewise

borg

lagereek

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