With due respect but new contributors or ppl, thats been less then 3 years in this business need not bother to post in this thread, reason being that you have very little to compare with since you havent been through the ups and downs in micro.

My reasoning is this: all these agencies will forever aggrevate us in some sort of way, constant search-changes, SS, being the latest, bugs and glitches, this and that, all the time. Now isnt it better to just have one agency getting wound up about, then lets say, 10 of them? As Lisa once said here, its not even a matter of uploading selling, etc, its become  a matter of fooling the system, constantly on the look-out for any scullduggery, etc. This is NOT, the way our profession should be executed, nor deteriorate into. This is perfectly true.

Now lets forget the money aspect, in the end of day, I dont think a diamond exclusive earns more or less then I do as a diamond independant with all other sites, well, it might differ with a few hundereds on either side, so what the heck, who cares?  I know! I have been in the frontline of independancy but, hell one has to draw the line somewhere and take a stand.

With SS, now going public and changing everything, well there goes the independants last stronghold, lets face it, many of us have been hiding behind the "safe" walls over there and now it turns out, being not so safe. Fragile. Also, SS does not have an exclusivity program and even if they did, its doubtfull it would benefit too much, I know, i have changed my mind a bit.
Getty, in itself has always been OK, to me, even since 1993 when came over from Stones and Image-Bank so its an obvious choice.

Ok fallas lets have some reactions here, some flaming or whatever to: am I doing the right thing?

you are not doing the right thing..

the right thing would be setting up your own site.. if you go exclusive, they don't even let you have your own site.. nobody deserves that kind of commitment.. If you don't like commission cuts and other idiotic moves, just start your own site where you get %100 of the sale.. (well apart from paypal or credit card charges)

I know but Im also a dayrate photographer, freelance and havent got the time for all that, I already run my own RM-outfit, not webb based but still, lots of work going into it, old clients, etc. I already house over 50K images of my own and its selling very well. With Micro, Im just after the easiest way, uploading, selling, etc. Not having to be at the mercy of sudden changes, etc. PPl, still believe running your own site is a picknick, its NOT, unless you have dollars to burn for advertising, your a gonner.

You're kidding, right?  

Even with sales down on all sites, Istock leads the pack.  Sales have crashed there.  Can't imagine limiting myself to fighting for the ever dwindling pool of remaining sales there.  

You're kidding, right?  

Even with sales down on all sites, Istock leads the pack.  Sales have crashed there.  Can't imagine limiting myself to fighting for the ever dwindling pool of remaining sales there.  

I know Lisa, I know but its like Hobsons choice here, cant you see?  where else?  SS, have just, in spite of promises, changed their entire search and we all know its just a matter of time before one feels the shockwaves. Theyre going public and then what? its pretty obvious to see whos going to end up buying and all.

I am still toying around with this decision, almost feel like a traitor here?  but lets face it, its all too time-consuming, uploading to gazillions of sites, be at the mercy of all these schitzophrenic changes, its no fun.
Also, IS, because of the Getty empire will most likely prevail forever, no matter how bad, I do not at all have the same confidance in any of the others.

You'd have to be crazy to do so and you should have more than enough data, indicating the current trends, for that to be obvious.

SS going public means huge investment in the business, the possibility of a major acquisition, and the intention to dominate the industry.

IS, on the other hand, are being sold off now that H&F have plundered $900M in special 'dividends' from the mothership and left it badly in debt.

There are far more exclusives who have either given up their crowns recently or seriously considering doing so and those going the other way.

Somehow I think you've got too much time on your hands this afternoon and are just looking for entertainment. You could always watch the Olympics instead.

Somehow I think you've got too much time on your hands this afternoon and are just looking for entertainment. You could always watch the Olympics instead.

nice one

It would be fascinating to compare an indie vs exclusive from the start both with 250000 downloads to see who was the smarter person.  One has made the wrong financial decision.  The data is out there!

I know I'm not very good with word problems, but you lost me on what that would prove.

Aren't you still on DT?  If so then you have many months to think about it.

He didn't say Where ... maybe a DT exclusive?   

I started in 2005 so I don't know if that qualifies me or not.

I was exclusive at an agency for a while. There are pros and cons.

Con: Not all buyers frequent all of the agencies. Each site has it's own clientele and even if your stuff fits with the clientele of a particular agency, you will no doubt sacrifice many sales from other sources.

Pro: Being exclusive means preferential treatment in search results which does boost sales considerably.

Con: Being exclusive, according to the terms, means you cannot sell your stuff anywhere else, that includes the stuff they reject. As many have pointed out, by selling on multiple sites, you tend to get all of your stuff up somewhere, even if one rejects, another accepts. If you put time into a shoot, and money and they decide to pass.... you're left holding the bag.

Pro: There's usually an incentive in higher commissions etc. Enough to make up for sitting on a bunch of work you can't sell? Not for me but to each their own. In addition, it does cut down on the time and energy required to upload to multiple sites.

Pro: There is something to the argument that you compete against yourself by selling on all these different sites, especially the bargain basement ones that almost give the shots away. Being exclusive to an agency means that your work is only available at one place which, if enough do that, gives the agency more clout to compete. If you want a particular shot and it's only available at one place, you go to that place and pay whatever they're asking.

Con: that benefits the agency more than you. It's a mutual symbiotic relationship so if one wins the other tends to as well (too bad the agencies don't see that) but I doubt you'll find the pluses out weigh the minuses.

You'd have to be crazy to do so and you should have more than enough data, indicating the current trends, for that to be obvious.

SS going public means huge investment in the business, the possibility of a major acquisition, and the intention to dominate the industry.

IS, on the other hand, are being sold off now that H&F have plundered $900M in special 'dividends' from the mothership and left it badly in debt.

There are far more exclusives who have either given up their crowns recently or seriously considering doing so and those going the other way.

Somehow I think you've got too much time on your hands this afternoon and are just looking for entertainment. You could always watch the Olympics instead.

Hi!  well as I said Im strongly thinking about it, I might be crazy even thinking about it, your right!  then again, for me its not a matter of the money, I know 46 IS, exclusives also with many Vettas and they are earning more as diamonds, then I am being an indie diamond with my 6 other sites. If I go through with it, its purely because I think all these sites takes up too much time and add to that the constant hassle.
Now tell me this! SS, is going public and normally that should benefit, so in that case, why have they changed their search? theres a thread at SS, where every single one screams they are down, so why? for the fun of it? experiments? at the cost of us?
Frankly I dont think theres more security as an independant anymore.

best.

...With SS, now going public and changing everything, well there goes the independants last stronghold, lets face it, many of us have been hiding behind the "safe" walls over there and now it turns out, being not so safe. Fragile...

Know something the rest of us don't? What's changing?

Even taking SS out of the equation, I'd still say that exclusivity at istock is a mistake. If SS closed up shop tomorrow, I still wouldn't opt for the crown. I can do better elsewhere, even without my SS income.

Even taking SS out of the equation, I'd still say that exclusivity at istock is a mistake. If SS closed up shop tomorrow, I still wouldn't opt for the crown. I can do better elsewhere, even without my SS income.

And here I thought I was the only one that thinks there is more to stock than just SS and IS.

Quote from: pro@stockphotos on August 08, 2012, 11:31

It would be fascinating to compare an indie vs exclusive from the start both with 250000 downloads to see who was the smarter person.  One has made the wrong financial decision.  The data is out there!

Well, there is a chap called Yuri who claims to be earning between $5M - $10M in royalties. Let say the actual figure was $7M and he was exclusive at IS with an average royalty of $7 per sale (at 45% commission). He'd need to be selling an unlikely 1M images per year (over 83K per month) just to equal his earnings as an independent __ plus the stability of his income would be subject to much greater risk.

I have a friend who was independent for the first 4 years and then switched to exclusivity in 2008. They are now back as an independent (with a list of reasons why as long as your arm). We share data so I know the numbers on both sides of the coin. Exclusivity became marginally advantageous for about 18 months, when IS introduced the price increase for Exc images and also Vetta, but when sales began to slide in 2011 (and earnings at SS continued to grow) then it quickly became an ever-increasing liability.

I'm pretty sure Yuri would have an RPD closer to $15 if he is at 45% and minimally without getting anything into Vetta/Agency/or having ELs he would likely be over $10.  Maybe it doesn't change anything but $7 is much lower than what his RPD would be.

Here read this.

Why going exclusive with another agency is a bad idea:

1) You will be just another exclusive among hundreds vying for the same resources from one company. You can't go to another company to complain- you are stuck with a single channel.

2) Competition is good for the industry and YOU! Let's say you don't like the way they are treating a certain rule/idea/etc. You have nowhere to go! At least you can use your vote by concentrating your efforts on another agency until the other one gets back in line. Why give up your voting power? In fact, these other agencies don't even let you talk about other stock agencies on their forums. You give up a lot to go exclusive.

3) Why sell your photos in one place for just a 10% increase at that one agency? Tons of photographers are telling me every day that they make more with ShutterStock than anywhere else! Why not make cash here, AND everywhere else?

4) Staying with ShutterStock means being part of something new and changing. We consider all of your suggestions - and implement them back into the system as quickly as we can. What happened when we weren't processing photos fast enough? We hired a night reviewer who worked on Christmas Eve! What other agency will review your photos on a major holiday?

5) I don't like exclusivity -- and i don�t plan to lock anybody into ShutterStock. I think you guys should sell your photos everywhere and make as much money as possible! Besides - the model we have here is just one model... Your photos may do well here some parts of the year, and better in other places other parts of the year.

6) Other places may try to convince you that going exclusive is a good business idea. It is exactly the opposite! If you aren't convinced of that, go back to (1) and do not proceed until you agree.

7) Our traffic is increasing. Sales are increasing. If you don�t believe me, check out our Alexa Graph. If that doesn�t convince you to stay here � what will?

7) Finally, I would hate to see any of you go!

Would welcome any feedback you guys have.

Jon Oringer, Founder and CEO
ShutterStock, Inc.

Quote from: EmberMike on August 08, 2012, 13:24

Even taking SS out of the equation, I'd still say that exclusivity at istock is a mistake. If SS closed up shop tomorrow, I still wouldn't opt for the crown. I can do better elsewhere, even without my SS income.

And here I thought I was the only one that thinks there is more to stock than just SS and IS.

Well taking SS out of the equation would definitely hurt. I'd have a hard time making a living at this without SS, but it wouldn't be impossible. Certainly wouldn't help if I decided to go exclusive. I'd do far worse as an istock exclusive than I would as an independent without SS.

Here read this.

Why going exclusive with another agency is a bad idea:

1) You will be just another exclusive among hundreds vying for the same resources from one company. You can't go to another company to complain- you are stuck with a single channel.

2) Competition is good for the industry and YOU! Let's say you don't like the way they are treating a certain rule/idea/etc. You have nowhere to go! At least you can use your vote by concentrating your efforts on another agency until the other one gets back in line. Why give up your voting power? In fact, these other agencies don't even let you talk about other stock agencies on their forums. You give up a lot to go exclusive.

3) Why sell your photos in one place for just a 10% increase at that one agency? Tons of photographers are telling me every day that they make more with ShutterStock than anywhere else! Why not make cash here, AND everywhere else?

4) Staying with ShutterStock means being part of something new and changing. We consider all of your suggestions - and implement them back into the system as quickly as we can. What happened when we weren't processing photos fast enough? We hired a night reviewer who worked on Christmas Eve! What other agency will review your photos on a major holiday?

5) I don't like exclusivity -- and i don�t plan to lock anybody into ShutterStock. I think you guys should sell your photos everywhere and make as much money as possible! Besides - the model we have here is just one model... Your photos may do well here some parts of the year, and better in other places other parts of the year.

6) Other places may try to convince you that going exclusive is a good business idea. It is exactly the opposite! If you aren't convinced of that, go back to (1) and do not proceed until you agree.

7) Our traffic is increasing. Sales are increasing. If you don�t believe me, check out our Alexa Graph. If that doesn�t convince you to stay here � what will?

7) Finally, I would hate to see any of you go!

Would welcome any feedback you guys have.

Jon Oringer, Founder and CEO
ShutterStock, Inc.

I know, I know!  doesnt make one feel any better, even worse when he is probably right.

"3) Why sell your photos in one place for just a 10% increase at that one agency? Tons of photographers are telling me every day that they make more with ShutterStock than anywhere else! Why not make cash here, AND everywhere else?"

It certainly isn't a '10%' increase...

I think Jon's statement was originally published several years ago (possibly as early as 2005). The "one agency" he was referring to was DT. In those days DT were paying 50% to non-exclusive contributors and 60% to exclusives.

I dropped exclusivity 9 months ago... believe me... I DON'T REGRET IT. SS and FT ROCKS....

I believe that  the growth of DP and FT is mainly due to the IS decrease. SS is increasing steadlly every month.

Personally, I don't even see why exclusivity exist. If most of these agencies were actually offering good deals and sales, they would get plenty of exclusive content and destroy their competition just by being better.

Good luck to you!

Aren't you still on DT?  If so then you have many months to think about it.

Not if it's been 6 months since he has uploaded.

I know many think that I was just kidding around here, but frankly I wasnt, However tons of ppl contacted me yesterday, mails, this and that and well, I suppose, I have to re-consider this, too much at risk and too much hassle deactivating files, etc at all sites.
I actually got sent to me some extremely interesting stats, earnings at IS, vettas and all that and believe me fellas, contrary to what we want to believe, there are plent and plenty of great earners at IS, equally, there are ofcourse lousy earners but as Ive said before its not just all about money, its about time, peace of mind, this and that, OTOH, these are ingrediants, totally strange to the micro world, isnt it?
So in short, I will stick with independancy, getting too f###ing old in this game to start changing now. Thanks anyway for all your differant views.

My thoughts...get out of microstock.  I've said it before and I'll say it again...there are just as many non-exclusive traditional agencies out there and the barriers to entry are slim to none.  These agencies are consistent in reviewing, they treat you like a professional, and they don't change their search engine every 4 weeks for the heck of it.

Started in the micros in October 2005.  Left for good last month.

Youre right, there are plenty of them, I belong to 4 trad agencies, theyre all run professionally, differant world alltogether, isnt it.

Quote from: Lagereek on August 08, 2012, 23:36

I know many think that I was just kidding around here, but frankly I wasnt, However tons of ppl contacted me yesterday, mails, this and that and well, I suppose, I have to re-consider this, too much at risk and too much hassle deactivating files, etc at all sites.
I actually got sent to me some extremely interesting stats, earnings at IS, vettas and all that and believe me fellas, contrary to what we want to believe, there are plent and plenty of great earners at IS, equally, there are ofcourse lousy earners but as Ive said before its not just all about money, its about time, peace of mind, this and that, OTOH, these are ingrediants, totally strange to the micro world, isnt it?
So in short, I will stick with independancy, getting too f###ing old in this game to start changing now. Thanks anyway for all your differant views.

Is not all about the money; i understand that. Upload only to the big 4 SS, IS,FT,DT. don't waste your time with other smaller agencies for say max. 20% of total revenue. this way you will have a steady income and much more free time to use as you like.

br,

Nik

Actually theres lots of sense in what youre saying.

Quote from: Lagereek on August 08, 2012, 13:24

Quote from: pro@stockphotos on August 08, 2012, 11:31

Quote from: lisafx on August 08, 2012, 10:30

You're kidding, right?  

Even with sales down on all sites, Istock leads the pack.  Sales have crashed there.  Can't imagine limiting myself to fighting for the ever dwindling pool of remaining sales there.  

I would doubt that  Lagereek would loose out if he takes advantage of agency or vetta or E+ as exclusive.  It seems he would not need a lot of these sales to surpass the puny subscription SS sales and the lot.  The hedge of independence has not panned out in enough sales when compared to the large revenue avenues of the higher end sales at IS. 

It would be fascinating to compare an indie vs exclusive from the start both with 250000 downloads to see who was the smarter person.  One has made the wrong financial decision.  The data is out there!

 I think youre right, I have quite a number of images that would qualify for Vettas, and thats where the revenue is, no doubt about that!  question is ofcourse, if they would accept me, or others like me? I mean we have enough given them some stick over the years.

Exclusivity doesn't work financially for everyone. If your portfolio relies on sheer numbers of walk around tourist shots, or what you ate for dinner each day then I don't think it's worth it. The money to be made is in Vetta, Agency and exclusive +. So, given that your portfolio is of high end, hard to get to, niche images then I think you're mad not to be cashing in on the extra $ available in the collections. Obviously it doesnt matter who you are, or what "stick" you've given iStock. To think otherwise is some sort of bizarre vanity. Of course, I'm also pretty sure you're not serious and are simply posting for posting's sake, in which case... meh.

Yes Im sure youre right. trouble is, its a mega job deleting, moving, terminating images everywhere, six months waiting with some of them and the ultimate question still is: is it worth it? Im not sure anymore as I said, Ive had tons of mails, this and that and it seems to be a 50/50  deal for and against. So, who knows, really?
In my case, Im not only thinking revenue all the time, there are other criteria just as important.

best.

In my case, Im not only thinking revenue all the time, there are other criteria just as important.

You'd get to delete your pics from Thinkstock  , until they force everyone into it  .

Yeah well this thread can be closed down now or locked, saves me from lots of pseudo c##p.