Author Topic: What are the industry wide problems and what sollutions do you think there are? (Read 16818 times)

tickstock · « **Reply #50 on:** August 22, 2014, 23:10 »

Quote from: Audi 5000 on August 22, 2014, 07:05

So my take away from your response is that collective action cannot change anything, never has never will. Is that correct?

Quote from: Uncle Pete on August 22, 2014, 22:13

That's not what I said. I was talking about people bragging about the power and accomplishment of changing DPC when it was a token adjustment. Kind of like some agency saying, we're cutting you back to 5% and we own the rights to all your images.

So you don't think the actions contributors took against DPC accomplished much or anything. Since the point of this thread is to add something constructive, what do you think could or should have been done?

Hobostocker · « **Reply #51 on:** August 23, 2014, 01:01 »

Quote from: heywoody on August 22, 2014, 16:29

At the end of the day it's supply and demand and there is no shortage of supply. This affects everything in the internet age from music to movies to stock photos to porn. Anyone who submits to stock agencies who thinks that artistic merit has the slightest relevance is kidding himself. Is there a solution? - probably not.

indeed even porn, years ago i was wondering about the idea of shooting female nudes and selling them as stock, it turns out there's already tons of agencies doing that for a pittance and with subscriptions, discounts, and bulk deals too, nobody is making good money with generic nude pics as the market is now all about video, and also for video it's the same sh-it, low prices, low fees, middlemen, and less demand because of all the free porn online.

stuff like MetArt pays decently but the models are not cheap, is the ROI worth the trouble ?
and of course the models on sites like Model Mayhem are all complaining about low fees too.

music, nobody make good money with downloads, not even the top sellers.
gigs are the only way they make good profits now but as usual the artists only get a small slice of the pie.

Mantis · « **Reply #52 on:** August 23, 2014, 08:24 »

The biggest, single, most effective gap that exists is the lack of a method to contact all or most contributors....the very first step is to have a communication loop between suppliers (us) so that the behaviors of agencies can be, for the most part, communicated to the supplier. A collective recommendation can be made to those tens of thousand suppliers and the impact to an agency action would be much bigger. I am not really talking about unionization, just a productive way to contact contributors across all agencies. Without that it makes it tough to wield the sword to an agency through whatever means, either mass takedowns, account closures, email blasts, etc. I do think we made an impact and FT but I also thing that once the momentum eroded the collection will eventually relax back to "normal". The KEY is being able to first communicate with suppliers.

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #53 on:** August 23, 2014, 20:02 »

Hope your are having fun in your own mind, twisting what I write, into something else.

Protesting DPC was a good move and it exposed the unfair efforts of the agency. Also the whole DP back door agency and everything is a sub, even if it sells for $25 (and we get a crappy sub commission?) was a positive community effort. Exposing a behind the scene deal that IS made, was useful. I'm sure someone could start a list, which would be a good way.

In fact someone has suggested a thread for listing agency improprieties and how they have tried to cheat us out of fair pay for fair work. Or basically unethical conduct which seems to be an industry game that they play on us.

Yes I answered on page two. Did you read it?

http://www.microstockgroup.com/23322/23322/msg391458/#msg391458

The solution I would like to see, and I'm repeating myself for your benefit, is minimum 50% commissions from some agency, across the board for any downloads, that are NOT by subscription.

Just because of the way subs work, a flat rate is to our benefit, instead of getting 8 cents if someone DLs 500 files of 500, or someone DLs 20 of 500. We get a flat rate. With that, SS could afford to install another level or maybe two?

Quote from: Audi 5000 on August 22, 2014, 23:10

Quote from: Audi 5000 on August 22, 2014, 07:05
So my take away from your response is that collective action cannot change anything, never has never will. Is that correct?

Quote from: Uncle Pete on August 22, 2014, 22:13
That's not what I said. I was talking about people bragging about the power and accomplishment of changing DPC when it was a token adjustment. Kind of like some agency saying, we're cutting you back to 5% and we own the rights to all your images.

So you don't think the actions contributors took against DPC accomplished much or anything. Since the point of this thread is to add something constructive, what do you think could or should have been done?

And Mantis added a seriously essential idea, community contact and communications: "a productive way to contact contributors across all agencies." That would be super!

Goofy · « **Reply #54 on:** August 23, 2014, 21:12 »

Quote from: Audi 5000 on August 22, 2014, 23:10

Quote from: Audi 5000 on August 22, 2014, 07:05
So my take away from your response is that collective action cannot change anything, never has never will. Is that correct?
Quote from: Uncle Pete on August 22, 2014, 22:13
That's not what I said. I was talking about people bragging about the power and accomplishment of changing DPC when it was a token adjustment. Kind of like some agency saying, we're cutting you back to 5% and we own the rights to all your images.
So you don't think the actions contributors took against DPC accomplished much or anything. Since the point of this thread is to add something constructive, what do you think could or should have been done?

Actions? Like attacking senior members directly (i.e., emails to their personal accounts) for being in the DPC program! I don't consider that 'Constructive' but more 'Destructive'- actually like a mob! We have a right to decide where we want to sell our images - this isn't a 'Union' the last time I checked.

Bottom line- advice is available here for us to make an intelligent decision but the choice is ours...

tickstock · « **Reply #55 on:** August 23, 2014, 21:14 »

Quote from: Mantis on August 23, 2014, 08:24

The biggest, single, most effective gap that exists is the lack of a method to contact all or most contributors....the very first step is to have a communication loop between suppliers (us) so that the behaviors of agencies can be, for the most part, communicated to the supplier. A collective recommendation can be made to those tens of thousand suppliers and the impact to an agency action would be much bigger. I am not really talking about unionization, just a productive way to contact contributors across all agencies. Without that it makes it tough to wield the sword to an agency through whatever means, either mass takedowns, account closures, email blasts, etc. I do think we made an impact and FT but I also thing that once the momentum eroded the collection will eventually relax back to "normal". The KEY is being able to first communicate with suppliers.

Thanks for the response.

tickstock · « **Reply #56 on:** August 24, 2014, 08:53 »

Quote from: Uncle Pete on August 23, 2014, 20:02

The solution I would like to see, and I'm repeating myself for your benefit, is minimum 50% commissions from some agency, across the board for any downloads, that are NOT by subscription.

If you just want one agency that does that it already exists, Pond5 has 50% royalties across the board. Alamy also has 50% sales. GL has 52%. I don't think Pond5 or Alamy or GL just existing will solve anything. Please explain what you mean?

tickstock · « **Reply #57 on:** August 24, 2014, 10:40 »

Quote from: Goofy on August 23, 2014, 21:12

Quote from: Audi 5000 on August 22, 2014, 23:10
Quote from: Audi 5000 on August 22, 2014, 07:05
So my take away from your response is that collective action cannot change anything, never has never will. Is that correct?
Quote from: Uncle Pete on August 22, 2014, 22:13
That's not what I said. I was talking about people bragging about the power and accomplishment of changing DPC when it was a token adjustment. Kind of like some agency saying, we're cutting you back to 5% and we own the rights to all your images.
So you don't think the actions contributors took against DPC accomplished much or anything. Since the point of this thread is to add something constructive, what do you think could or should have been done?

Actions? Like attacking senior members directly (i.e., emails to their personal accounts) for being in the DPC program! I don't consider that 'Constructive' but more 'Destructive'- actually like a mob! We have a right to decide where we want to sell our images - this isn't a 'Union' the last time I checked.

Bottom line- advice is available here for us to make an intelligent decision but the choice is ours...

There is no reason to attack other contributors. Many contributors don't know about things like DPC, it was very deliberately hidden from them just like the opt out is not easy to find. Sure some might find the information on here, most likely if they are already looking for it but many won't. It makes sense to compile a list of contributors to keep a larger group informed.

cascoly · « **Reply #58 on:** August 24, 2014, 11:12 »

http://www.microstock-collective.com/ is an initial attempt to gather some of the information requested above and maintain it for reference - it lets contributors rate agencies and provides other important information

tickstock · « **Reply #59 on:** August 24, 2014, 11:23 »

Quote from: cascoly on August 24, 2014, 11:12

http://www.microstock-collective.com/ is an initial attempt to gather some of the information requested above and maintain it for reference - it lets contributors rate agencies and provides other important information

I'm not sure how this will really create change or be able to provide solutions to industry problems when the purpose of the site seems to expressly say it will not do that?
From the about section:
• This collective is nothing more than a collection of voluntarily offered information. The purpose of this site is to clarify the overall consensus of the microstock contributor community.
• There is no agenda associated with this site other than to collect and share as much information about the microstock industry as possible.

Favete · « **Reply #60 on:** August 25, 2014, 03:04 »

I think that probably the main problem is rapdly growing number of contributers and decrease of the overall quality.

And I don’t think that anybody is able to stop it. Look for yourself: if you have $500-$1000 income each month, probably you won’t survive in USA, but in some russian or indian or chinese towns you may. So while internet is spreading, people start to searching for ways to make money in the internet - and, if they have some talent (or time to dig in Illustration) - they pass test on SS - and start doing lots and lots of images.

Probably the inly way is to make reviewing process more strict, but probably no agency would do it (because this way they will get less images, and will loose this «number of images in collection» war).

Tror · « **Reply #61 on:** August 25, 2014, 05:38 »

Quote from: Hobostocker on August 23, 2014, 01:01

it turns out there's already tons of agencies doing that for a pittance and with subscriptions, discounts, and bulk deals too, nobody is making good money with generic nude pics as the market is now all about video, and also for video it's the same sh-it, low prices, low fees, middlemen, and less demand because of all the free porn online.

...would you mind sharing some links to those sites? I still have a couple of thousand nude files uselessly sitting here :-) PM me if it is too "adult" for posting public links on this board....Thanks!

YadaYadaYada · « **Reply #62 on:** August 25, 2014, 08:35 »

Quote from: Audi 5000 on August 24, 2014, 08:53

Quote from: Uncle Pete on August 23, 2014, 20:02
The solution I would like to see, and I'm repeating myself for your benefit, is minimum 50% commissions from some agency, across the board for any downloads, that are NOT by subscription.
If you just want one agency that does that it already exists, Pond5 has 50% royalties across the board. Alamy also has 50% sales. GL has 52%. I don't think Pond5 or Alamy or GL just existing will solve anything. Please explain what you mean?

Now they just need buyers. The artist side is taken care of. I guess better pay isn't the answer according to you but a protest group or union is what we need. I'd want the truth and more money. Mantis and Cascoly are right. Share information and expose the truth when they try to cheat us.

tickstock · « **Reply #63 on:** August 25, 2014, 08:39 »

Quote from: YadaYadaYada on August 25, 2014, 08:35

Quote from: Audi 5000 on August 24, 2014, 08:53
Quote from: Uncle Pete on August 23, 2014, 20:02
The solution I would like to see, and I'm repeating myself for your benefit, is minimum 50% commissions from some agency, across the board for any downloads, that are NOT by subscription.
If you just want one agency that does that it already exists, Pond5 has 50% royalties across the board. Alamy also has 50% sales. GL has 52%. I don't think Pond5 or Alamy or GL just existing will solve anything. Please explain what you mean?

Now they just need buyers. The artist side is taken care of. I guess better pay isn't the answer according to you but a protest group or union is what we need. I'd want the truth and more money. Mantis and Cascoly are right. Share information and expose the truth when they try to cheat us.

How would they get buyers if other sites offer the same exact images but can charge less and advertise more because they pay contributors less? I doubt buyers will decide to pay more for the exact same product so contributors will be better taken care of. It seems to me that the only way those sites attract more buyers is if they offer something buyers can't get at the other sites.

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #64 on:** August 25, 2014, 11:35 »

Good point, when 1000 agencies offer the same images, from the same people, the only way they can compete is price. I've only been saying that for about seven years.

When artists stop supporting the parasite agencies and take a stand, only support those that pay a fair commission, and don't try to trick us or cheat us, the images will start to have some value. (here's where someone will say, then you'll need to drop all the agencies)

Not really, just most of them.

Would any person here take an abusive boss, pay under minimum wage, a company that changes their contract with you after the fact, lowering sales commissions, then raises the quotas (aka RC) or lowers prices so you make less commissions. Would anyone take that job in the real world of employment?

But people in Microstock will allow all that and more and say "but I need the money".

OK take the abuse and keep coming back for more. But please stop complaining that Microstock beats you up and you can't leave. Leave the loser agencies and stand up for what's right.

Yes Audi 5000 exclusive or curated collections are a fine way to combat the ordinary and common. Agencies with quality can demand more for images and we can make more. But I still say they also need to pay 50% or more.

Quote from: Audi 5000 on August 25, 2014, 08:39

Quote from: YadaYadaYada on August 25, 2014, 08:35
Quote from: Audi 5000 on August 24, 2014, 08:53
Quote from: Uncle Pete on August 23, 2014, 20:02
The solution I would like to see, and I'm repeating myself for your benefit, is minimum 50% commissions from some agency, across the board for any downloads, that are NOT by subscription.
If you just want one agency that does that it already exists, Pond5 has 50% royalties across the board. Alamy also has 50% sales. GL has 52%. I don't think Pond5 or Alamy or GL just existing will solve anything. Please explain what you mean?

Now they just need buyers. The artist side is taken care of. I guess better pay isn't the answer according to you but a protest group or union is what we need. I'd want the truth and more money. Mantis and Cascoly are right. Share information and expose the truth when they try to cheat us.
How would they get buyers if other sites offer the same exact images but can charge less and advertise more because they pay contributors less? I doubt buyers will decide to pay more for the exact same product so contributors will be better taken care of. It seems to me that the only way those sites attract more buyers is if they offer something buyers can't get at the other sites.

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Author Topic: What are the industry wide problems and what sollutions do you think there are? (Read 16818 times)

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Hobostocker

Mantis

Uncle Pete

Goofy

tickstock

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cascoly

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Favete

Tror

YadaYadaYada

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Uncle Pete

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