Author Topic: In defense of the corporate pigs (Read 23791 times)

stockmarketer · « **on:** November 09, 2010, 01:02 »

This forum, once a place for optimism and learning from each other, has degenerated into a place for demanding unionization, government regulation, and a general tearing down of the very people who created microstock.

Those people put their blood sweat and tears into creating new businesses that were long shots. They invested significant sums of their own money or worked hard to secure financing. They hired staffs, secured help from accountants and lawyers, spent significant sums on advertising, set up infrastructures (software, servers, etc.) In every case, these business owners took a big gamble. Some succeeded and some didn't.

That's called capitalism.

You too are a capitalist. You are creating a product, sending it out into a marketplace, and expecting to profit from it. You control your destiny. You are your own boss. You are a grown-up. You entered into agreements with those other capitalists, the microstock agencies, to sell your work. They are providing a service to you, and taking between 65 and 85% of the sale price, in exchange for the marketplace they created and all the associated costs of putting your product in front of buyers, facilitating sales, and putting the money into your pocket.

You are free to believe those services ARE or ARE NOT worth 65 to 85% of the sale prices, and have those agencies work on your behalf. And you're just as free to say that you're better off finding another solution, maybe starting your own agency, perhaps setting up your own website to sell your own work.

You are free to raise the funds needed to start your own venture, to hire a staff, pay for lawyers, accountants, advertising, servers, programmers, etc. Make no mistake, it's a lot of work, and it takes a lot of money to do it right. You either have the stomach and the pockets to do what the agencies are doing, or you don't and you agree to their terms in exchange for their services. Or you do neither and find another income stream/field of work that you believe will treat you more fairly.

The point is: you're FREE TO MAKE YOUR OWN CHOICE. Don't feel stuck in one or the other scenario and complain about it endlessly. Make a decision you feel is best for you and focus all your energies into making it the most rewarding arrangement for all involved. Do you really feel it's right to enter into an arrangement with a business with the idea that you will both benefit, then trash that partner at every opportunity? Please, just walk away. Or at least stop crying about how you're being taken taken advantage of. Are you a slave? Just walk away.

When I set up accounts at these agencies, I knew what I would be selling was a COMMODITY. I accepted that it wasn't much different from producing a product and getting it into WalMart and having to agree to their terms to get onto their shelves. As long as my margins were good enough I could meet my own revenue goals, and I would feel fairly rewarded. I've gone into this with a capitalist mentality, and perhaps that attitude has helped me do well. Ultimately, I recognize that the microstocks have made it possible for me to make a living at this, and I think it's about time I stepped up and spoke out in their defense since no one else is.

Thank you for hearing me out. Now you can get back to calling for a microstocker's union to protect you from the greedy pigs stealing your money. Or get back to uploading your next batch. Or, most likely, both.

molka · « **Reply #1 on:** November 09, 2010, 03:12 »

"Those people put their blood sweat and tears into creating new businesses that were long shots."

Yes, and they are called contributors, who were ready to work a lot and alot more for just the possibility of micorpayments. After clearing that up, there isn't much sense to the rest of your post is there? Try to think it over a bit more next time. : )

sharpshot · « **Reply #2 on:** November 09, 2010, 04:06 »

I believe capitalism works well but needs some regulation/rules or union opposition. Just look at the mess the banks got in to after years of deregulation. There are several industries where the suppliers have been squeezed so hard they can barely survive while others are making huge profits from them. I have never joined a union but if that's the only way to put the brakes on the sites moving further towards taking nearly all our earnings, then I'm interested.

We aren't really free to start our own site. Who here has the money to do that? A few of the big contributors could but they are either satisfied with their earnings or are moving on to macro. In a perfect world, we could all go to a site that pays a decent commission and take all the buyers with us but that isn't going to happen. I wish it would but too many people go along with whatever changes the sites make until its too late to do anything about it.

MarkFGD · « **Reply #3 on:** November 09, 2010, 04:53 »

Stockmarketer, my dear fellow. The spaces between your sentences are a little too big and a touch uneven for my liking. Be careful you don't fall into one of them. You might not find your way out again.

Quote

Quote from: stockmarketer on November 09, 2010, 01:02
This forum, once a place for optimism and learning from each other, has degenerated into a place for demanding unionization, government regulation, and a general tearing down of the very people who created microstock.

If you bother to look through the current threads on this forum, you'll quickly realise it's pretty much the same as it's always been: a healthy mix of microstockers reacting to what's going on at present and sharing opinions and knowledge along the way.

I'm not aware of anybody tearing down the people who created microstock. I think microstock evolved, I don't think it was ever created.

ShadySue · « **Reply #4 on:** November 09, 2010, 05:05 »

Quote from: stockmarketer on November 09, 2010, 01:02

This forum, once a place for optimism and learning from each other, has degenerated into a place for demanding unionization, government regulation, and a general tearing down of the very people who created microstock.

Nope, generally the lament is how far the vision has moved from that of the 'very people who created microstock'.

cthoman · « **Reply #5 on:** November 09, 2010, 09:43 »

I don't think much has changed either. There has always been a lot of grumbling here. While I think a healthy amount of complaining is good, I do think that we all could probably spend a little more time doing and less time talking. If people want a union, then do it. If they want to start their own site, do it. Or do anything else that they think is the answer. The problem is most of us don't have a clear answer, so the complaining comes. Personally, this last change at IS pushed me to open a Ktools store. But before I started working on that, I did (or am still doing) a pretty good amount of complaining.

Blufish · « **Reply #6 on:** November 09, 2010, 10:10 »

You're right, each to their own destiny. But, I like the fact that peope can vent here. A lot of photographers work alone. People in corporate offices, can go to lunch or drinks after work to vent and share their frustrations about their company; changes, no raises, over worked, etc. This forum offers that "lunch/drinks" opportunity with others that are experiencing the same things.

I have found a lot of positive things here. Even the negative is a positive. We get the chance to learn from others mistakes. The shared knowledge of good, bad, and otherwise makes this community, well, a community.

I for one am very appreciative of all the information available on these forums, no matter what form they take.

gbalex · « **Reply #7 on:** November 09, 2010, 10:22 »

Quote from: stockmarketer on November 09, 2010, 01:02

This forum, once a place for optimism and learning from each other, has degenerated into a place for demanding unionization, government regulation, and a general tearing down of the very people who created microstock.

Those people put their blood sweat and tears into creating new businesses that were long shots. They invested significant sums of their own money or worked hard to secure financing. They hired staffs, secured help from accountants and lawyers, spent significant sums on advertising, set up infrastructures (software, servers, etc.) In every case, these business owners took a big gamble. Some succeeded and some didn't.

That's called capitalism.

You too are a capitalist. You are creating a product, sending it out into a marketplace, and expecting to profit from it. You control your destiny. You are your own boss. You are a grown-up. You entered into agreements with those other capitalists, the microstock agencies, to sell your work. They are providing a service to you, and taking between 65 and 85% of the sale price, in exchange for the marketplace they created and all the associated costs of putting your product in front of buyers, facilitating sales, and putting the money into your pocket.

You are free to believe those services ARE or ARE NOT worth 65 to 85% of the sale prices, and have those agencies work on your behalf. And you're just as free to say that you're better off finding another solution, maybe starting your own agency, perhaps setting up your own website to sell your own work.

You are free to raise the funds needed to start your own venture, to hire a staff, pay for lawyers, accountants, advertising, servers, programmers, etc. Make no mistake, it's a lot of work, and it takes a lot of money to do it right. You either have the stomach and the pockets to do what the agencies are doing, or you don't and you agree to their terms in exchange for their services. Or you do neither and find another income stream/field of work that you believe will treat you more fairly.

The point is: you're FREE TO MAKE YOUR OWN CHOICE. Don't feel stuck in one or the other scenario and complain about it endlessly.....

Now you can get back to calling for a microstocker's union to protect you from the greedy pigs stealing your money. Or get back to uploading your next batch. Or, most likely, both.

New member with one post which hmmm is written almost entirely from an owners perspective. Albeit an owner who is worried about the effects this forum and the collective awakening of its members will have on his business.

Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #8 on:** November 09, 2010, 10:23 »

What on earth is the point of joining the forums and starting a post to complain that we're all a bunch of whiners?

jbarber873 · « **Reply #9 on:** November 09, 2010, 10:29 »

If you are a new member, how would you even know what this forum has discussed in the past? You sound more like one of those happy talk suck ups in the istock threads. Here's my answer to you: the people who created microstock are the contributors, not the website owners. The quality of the work, and the demands of the website owners for that quality have increased relentlessly over the years. The cost of producing an image has increased. The usage and acceptance of microstock in the mainstream world of communications has exploded. All the while, the percentage of the sale that the ARTIST, the creator of that work, has relentlessly gone downhill. You are free to defend this if you can, but it's a simple fact of economics that the business model for producer and seller has to find an equilibrium or both ends of the business will cease to exist.

PeterChigmaroff · « **Reply #10 on:** November 09, 2010, 10:29 »

Quote from: jsnover on November 09, 2010, 10:23

What on earth is the point of joining the forums and starting a post to complain that we're all a bunch of whiners?

Here here. I understand that many blogs, forums, review sites are spiked by bogus individuals trying to sway opinion. Not like I sense that happening with this post. It's far too objectively written for that to have happened. Surely you have better things to do in that Ivory Tower of yours.

rubyroo · « **Reply #11 on:** November 09, 2010, 10:30 »

Quote from: Blufish on November 09, 2010, 10:10

I like the fact that peope can vent here. A lot of photographers work alone. People in corporate offices, can go to lunch or drinks after work to vent and share their frustrations about their company; changes, no raises, over worked, etc. This forum offers that "lunch/drinks" opportunity with others that are experiencing the same things.

Exactly. Well said Blufish.

donding · « **Reply #12 on:** November 09, 2010, 10:42 »

I realize that there is a lot of negative posts on this forum and this is the only place a lot of them can vent their frustrations,just as you can, but to the OP you have to realize that many contributors rely on their income from microstock and iStock is one place that trapped many contributors with their promises of bigger commissions for those who went exclusive with a deadline of August 31st just one month before their big announcement. That is why people want them to be accountable for what they have done. They would have known what was going on before the announcement. If their business was losing money by keeping the current commission rate earned by the different canister levels then why in the world would they want more to join just to take higher commissions? If that isn't misleading on their part I don't know what is. That's what it's all about. Many of the exclusives can't just pack up and leave because they have no portfolios anywhere else because of the broken promises.

lisafx · « **Reply #13 on:** November 09, 2010, 10:58 »

Quote from: stockmarketer on November 09, 2010, 01:02

The point is: you're FREE TO MAKE YOUR OWN CHOICE. Don't feel stuck in one or the other scenario and complain about it endlessly. Make a decision you feel is best for you and focus all your energies into making it the most rewarding arrangement for all involved. Do you really feel it's right to enter into an arrangement with a business with the idea that you will both benefit, then trash that partner at every opportunity? Please, just walk away. Or at least stop crying about how you're being taken taken advantage of. Are you a slave? Just walk away.

Microstock - Love It or Leave It.

I always get the biggest kick out of people who come in forums to bitch and moan about all the bitching and moaning. And they do it without the slightest trace of irony or self-awareness. LOL!

If you don't want to read our crying and moaning, according to your own argument, you should walk away. Right?

donding · « **Reply #14 on:** November 09, 2010, 11:04 »

Quote from: lisafx on November 09, 2010, 10:58

Quote from: stockmarketer on November 09, 2010, 01:02

The point is: you're FREE TO MAKE YOUR OWN CHOICE. Don't feel stuck in one or the other scenario and complain about it endlessly. Make a decision you feel is best for you and focus all your energies into making it the most rewarding arrangement for all involved. Do you really feel it's right to enter into an arrangement with a business with the idea that you will both benefit, then trash that partner at every opportunity? Please, just walk away. Or at least stop crying about how you're being taken taken advantage of. Are you a slave? Just walk away.

Microstock - Love It or Leave It.

I always get the biggest kick out of people who come in forums to bitch and moan about all the bitching and moaning. And they do it without the slightest trace of irony or self-awareness. LOL!

If you don't want to read our crying and moaning, according to your own argument, you should walk away. Right?

Right on the money Lisa....

m@m · « **Reply #15 on:** November 09, 2010, 11:05 »

My sentiments exactly Lisa...

donding · « **Reply #16 on:** November 09, 2010, 11:08 »

You reckon this person is a undercover spy for iStock...

Microbius · « **Reply #17 on:** November 09, 2010, 11:11 »

OP is 100% right. everyone should walk away from micro. Or better still don't start in the first place.
mua ha ha ha ha (<---- evil laugh)

helix7 · « **Reply #18 on:** November 09, 2010, 11:11 »

@stockmarketer - I hope you realize that you're railing against the vast minority of microstock artists. Very few participate in these forums, and even fewer agree with the calls to unionize. Even those who say they'd support a union probably wouldn't back it in any financial way. The minute that union puts out a call for donations or dues, I think very few people would still believe in the union.

Most of us are well aware that microstock is a very solitary business, where we each make business decisions that suit our individual needs and goals best. And a union is the last thing most of us would want, despite what the vocal minority in these forums might otherwise suggest.

LSD72 · « **Reply #19 on:** November 09, 2010, 11:12 »

Hi Lobo.. welcome to MSG where you dont have the power to shut down complaints in the forum.

m@m · « **Reply #20 on:** November 09, 2010, 11:24 »

LOL

...I guess the cat is out of the bag...right! stockmarketer

cathyslife · « **Reply #21 on:** November 09, 2010, 11:43 »

Quote from: LSD72 on November 09, 2010, 11:12

Hi Lobo.. welcome to MSG where you dont have the power to shut down complaints in the forum.

LOL! Too funny!

And I agree with Blufish.

Quote

You're right, each to their own destiny. But, I like the fact that peope can vent here. A lot of photographers work alone. People in corporate offices, can go to lunch or drinks after work to vent and share their frustrations about their company; changes, no raises, over worked, etc. This forum offers that "lunch/drinks" opportunity with others that are experiencing the same things.

I have found a lot of positive things here. Even the negative is a positive. We get the chance to learn from others mistakes. The shared knowledge of good, bad, and otherwise makes this community, well, a community.

I for one am very appreciative of all the information available on these forums, no matter what form they take.

I am in a very negative state of mind right now regarding the microstocks. I like that there is a place I can go and see that I am not alone in my thoughts and feelings. You know, misery loves company. And you can almost bet that whatever gets said, you're going to hear plusses and minuses. I think that helps us all make informed decisions.

Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #22 on:** November 09, 2010, 12:19 »

Quote from: LSD72 on November 09, 2010, 11:12

Hi Lobo.. welcome to MSG where you dont have the power to shut down complaints in the forum.

I doubt it's Lobo - he already has an account here as pieman.

But it would be a refreshing change to know who is behind the curtain when these finger-wagging folks come to tell us all what we should be doing and thinking...

molka · « **Reply #23 on:** November 09, 2010, 13:42 »

These mid level company 'capitalists' sound more and more like goddam' communists nowadays. Same crap propaganda style talk about how everyone should work on some kinda enhtusiasm because it's not really money that makes anyone happy. : D I guess you should work all with the common good in mind... fit that concept onto stock photography : ))) The little pumpkins even dare to end their craptalk with some semi-aggressive remark about how everyone should just shut up and get on working, uploading. These are not capitalits. They are just some small time piece o' sheit boyos who were lucky enough to sit on a business that grew fast for while, and now they try play the dumb little boy's version of a plutokrat - wannabe... and of course unlike a real plutokratic person of power, they'r just told to f**k off, as due : ) Or they just get bought by the really wealthy, and than told to f**k off, doesn't really matter that much.

madelaide · « **Reply #24 on:** November 09, 2010, 15:43 »

stockmarketer,

Maybe what you are missing is that our complaints are about changes implemented by the sites. We signed up under some agreement terms, we invested our time in uploads, and all of a sudden they make changes. So, for instance, it's not about IS paying only 20%, but about them cutting this to 15%.

As far as I remember, the only complaint that is not about changing the rules is FT with the exchange rates.

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Author Topic: In defense of the corporate pigs (Read 23791 times)

stockmarketer

molka

sharpshot

MarkFGD

ShadySue

cthoman

Blufish

gbalex

Jo Ann Snover

jbarber873

PeterChigmaroff

rubyroo

donding

lisafx

donding

m@m

donding

Microbius

helix7

LSD72

m@m

cathyslife

Jo Ann Snover

molka

madelaide

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