An interesting thread about IS vs SS from a buyers viewpoint.

Contributors should band together to end subscription sales.

How?

I've asked before and no one answers. What power and control do contributors have over agencies that will "end subscriptions"? Writing messages in forums and complaining to like minded people who are also underpaid for their work? Whoopee, it does nothing.

Quote from: shudderstok on August 30, 2014, 09:46

Contributors should band together to end subscription sales. It has killed the industry for suppliers and made agencies millions all the while completely devaluing the perceived value of images for stock usage.

Quote from: Uncle Pete on August 30, 2014, 19:33

How?

I've asked before and no one answers. What power and control do contributors have over agencies that will "end subscriptions"? Writing messages in forums and complaining to like minded people who are also underpaid for their work? Whoopee, it does nothing.

Quote from: shudderstok on August 30, 2014, 09:46

Contributors should band together to end subscription sales. It has killed the industry for suppliers and made agencies millions all the while completely devaluing the perceived value of images for stock usage.

Makes me think of the threat of a philosopher's strike in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.  "Who will that inconvenience?," asks Deep Thought.

Ignoring the futility of such a gesture, to me it's misguided.  I like subscriptions; they bring me a lot more sales than I'd get if credit sales were the only option.  I've had most of my success with subscription customers, and I'm happy to supply them.  Yes, I'd love more money per sale, but I expect that the model that does the best for me will combine subscription and one-off sales.

Subscriptions won't go away no matter how much a few suppliers want it.  First there's the inertia of the vast majority of suppliers.  And then there are people like me who think that would be a bad idea, at least for a lot of us.

Contributors should band together to end subscription sales. It has killed the industry for suppliers and made agencies millions all the while completely devaluing the perceived value of images for stock usage.

Quote from: Uncle Pete on August 30, 2014, 19:33

How?

I've asked before and no one answers. What power and control do contributors have over agencies that will "end subscriptions"? Writing messages in forums and complaining to like minded people who are also underpaid for their work? Whoopee, it does nothing.

Quote from: shudderstok on August 30, 2014, 09:46

Contributors should band together to end subscription sales. It has killed the industry for suppliers and made agencies millions all the while completely devaluing the perceived value of images for stock usage.

Sadly the Genie is out of the bottle and you can't put it back. Also you have far too many suppliers that are happy selling their photos for sub rates and the agencies are making way too much money to let it go back. So it really comes down to individual actions, support these sites or don't, that is about the best you can do as this model is sadly here to stay. In this race to the bottom, only the agencies will win.

Yes, Shudder I'm forced to agree with you, individual actions are the best way to deal with this situation. Personal choice. Race to the bottom is real, and we can't reverse history or the market. Yes some agencies have prospered by crowdsourcing images. I don't agree that Subs alone caused all of this, but we can agree to disagree.

But you once again haven't answered the question...

Quote from: shudderstok on August 30, 2014, 09:46

Contributors should band together to end subscription sales. It has killed the industry for suppliers and made agencies millions all the while completely devaluing the perceived value of images for stock usage.

HOW? Band together and end subs?

Quote from: shudderstok on August 31, 2014, 11:52

Quote from: Uncle Pete on August 30, 2014, 19:33

How?

I've asked before and no one answers. What power and control do contributors have over agencies that will "end subscriptions"? Writing messages in forums and complaining to like minded people who are also underpaid for their work? Whoopee, it does nothing.

Quote from: shudderstok on August 30, 2014, 09:46

Contributors should band together to end subscription sales. It has killed the industry for suppliers and made agencies millions all the while completely devaluing the perceived value of images for stock usage.

Sadly the Genie is out of the bottle and you can't put it back. Also you have far too many suppliers that are happy selling their photos for sub rates and the agencies are making way too much money to let it go back. So it really comes down to individual actions, support these sites or don't, that is about the best you can do as this model is sadly here to stay. In this race to the bottom, only the agencies will win.

HOW? Do you herd cats? The same way you get all photographers to agree what is good for them - you don't.

Many industries have been affected by the electronic age. Stock photos is only one of them. Used to be people sent catalogs or collections, maybe mailed letters or made phone calls. Contacts and agencies. Reputations were built and the system had limited sources. If you wanted some slides on approval, they shipped them to you and they were reviewed.

Now digital equipment. Instead of local markets or national markets, the whole world can click and look and see what people have for sale. Also the equipment to take photos has become available to masses of people, it's not specialized and technical. (but it still helps to be educated and know your trade)

Where a small group of people, made a living shooting stock photos, now the entire population can dive in. What some people in the business of Microstock miss is, there is still cream on the top and some people still stand out and make the best returns.

If you are copying best sellers and others styles, or last years trends... you're too late. That's one mistake that some people make. They think that a popular image, will always be popular. There are trends and styles and fads. What was good two years ago, cutting edge, has been shot to Swiss cheese and is old and over produced. (that's a hint for the list of how to succeed in Microstock)

On a base level. Photo agencies have two choices, same as stores, manufacturers, or anything that's produced and marketed. 1) Lower Price 2) Exclusive and better quality. Go ahead look at food, cars, art, toys, kitchen utensils, pickles, just about anything, and Stock Photos falls into that group.

So we have a commodity that's over supplied, many times more than needed, common, easily reproduced, copied and replicated and the market is flooded. I guess that eliminates number two, doesn't it?

Anyone who expects high pay for something that's abundant and mass produced, is self absorbed and can't see the reality in front of their face. That's someone who keeps shooting sliced vegetables, isolated on white, models with a headset, business handshake and the whole stock or pop Microstock, that's over produced.

I suppose with that it would be helpful and reasonable to offer an answer. Do I need to? (sheep can just keep grazing on the same old pastures and walking in circles, you will get nowhere)

Find a niche, a genre that's in demand right now, be different, explore, INNOVATION not duplication. There's you path and answer. But it takes change and observation and breaking away for the normal easy doing the same old things, or same as someone already did in 2010.

This is the same for any creative field, poetry, art, cinema, writing, music, and Photography.

Blaming the agency and the pay, is just ignoring the real issues. SS 41 million stock images. Alamy 50 million stock images. Do something different in your creative endeavors or do something different for your income. Don't expect high pay for something that doesn't stand out, that has a world of competition and a world market.

If you can do something different and creative and cutting edge, by all means, demand higher prices, don't take Microstock pay for it.

Quote from: gnirtS on September 01, 2014, 09:45

Quote

Contributors should band together to end subscription sales. It has killed the industry for suppliers and made agencies millions all the while completely devaluing the perceived value of images for stock usage.

But from a buyers and stock company point of view its great.  And there will ALWAYS be new contributors to pick up from the ones leaving.

They're here to stay.

Quote from: tickstock on September 01, 2014, 19:14

Quote from: Uncle Pete on September 01, 2014, 19:04

I see your answer to the question is, you don't have an answer, you just want to wave your hands and shout, Contributors should band together to end subscription sales. You don't have an answer, just a complaint. When pressed for an answer you say "You don't".

Quote from: shudderstok on September 01, 2014, 10:26

HOW? Do you herd cats? The same way you get all photographers to agree what is good for them - you don't.

I think he's saying people should do it but it's not going to happen.  I think that's probably correct judging by the responses in this forum.  I think it will only happen when all of the sites start doing badly for people and they start to really think about what the industry wide problems as a whole are.  Right now too many people say site x is doing badly and that's because of this policy or that when the real issues have less to do with such small things.  As long as most people keep doing well at SS nothing will change but if there is ever widespread discontent with Shutterstock I think people start to make changes.

The question is, why should people do it?

Subs opened up new markets, IMO. People who before hadn't thought of buying stock or who couldn't afford stock now saw it as a viable option. Or people who bought a couple of images a month now saw an opportunity to offer clients more choices by subscribing and having access to hundreds of unwatermarked images to present (which we get paid for).

The end of subs means the end of that market, which for many of us is our main market. Eliminating subs won't convince that market to pay more.

You may want to eliminate subs because it's good for you personally, but the folks who visit Microstock Group probably aren't your best target audience for that idea. Macrostock Group, on the other hand...

Quote from: Shelma1 on September 02, 2014, 06:42

Quote from: tickstock on September 01, 2014, 19:14

Quote from: Uncle Pete on September 01, 2014, 19:04

I see your answer to the question is, you don't have an answer, you just want to wave your hands and shout, Contributors should band together to end subscription sales. You don't have an answer, just a complaint. When pressed for an answer you say "You don't".

Quote from: shudderstok on September 01, 2014, 10:26

HOW? Do you herd cats? The same way you get all photographers to agree what is good for them - you don't.

I think he's saying people should do it but it's not going to happen.  I think that's probably correct judging by the responses in this forum.  I think it will only happen when all of the sites start doing badly for people and they start to really think about what the industry wide problems as a whole are.  Right now too many people say site x is doing badly and that's because of this policy or that when the real issues have less to do with such small things.  As long as most people keep doing well at SS nothing will change but if there is ever widespread discontent with Shutterstock I think people start to make changes.

The question is, why should people do it?

Subs opened up new markets, IMO. People who before hadn't thought of buying stock or who couldn't afford stock now saw it as a viable option. Or people who bought a couple of images a month now saw an opportunity to offer clients more choices by subscribing and having access to hundreds of unwatermarked images to present (which we get paid for).

The end of subs means the end of that market, which for many of us is our main market. Eliminating subs won't convince that market to pay more.

You may want to eliminate subs because it's good for you personally, but the folks who visit Microstock Group probably aren't your best target audience for that idea. Macrostock Group, on the other hand...

Multi billion dollar companies are using stock.  I bet one cent images with all the rights of an EL would open the market even more, opening the market doesn't necessarily mean it's better for us.  Look at DPC, lots of people here are against them but 10 dollars for 10 images probably opens up the market a lot more than a $200/month subscription, is that good for us?  Like I said right now most everyone is doing pretty well at Shutterstock, earnings are steady or rising for most contributors and nothing is going to change unless SS starts to do poorly.