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Author Topic: It's hot in here sometimes!  (Read 5164 times)

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« on: May 30, 2008, 17:33 »
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I gotta rant!!!!

Does anyone have an example of a microstock site reacting in a positive manner to a rant or complaint in a forum?

The more I read, the more I read the same thing. (Dead horse looking very nasty) 

The complaints I see everywhere range from rejections, commission rates, review times, uploading and a few others. 

Does anyone here actually think the complaining works?  Or are folks just blowing off steam knowing full well nothing will change?

Does anyone really think IS will change their inspection policy and accept more of their images is they go off in a rant about it?

Does anyone really think ANY of the microstock sites really care what any of us think anyway?

Does anyone really think you alone can hurt a site by not uploading anymore?

IMO the sites see 95% of us as pawns.  They could care less if we stop uploading to them. We can complain all we want to whom ever we want but nothing will change.  Do you disagree?

For every photog who either stops uploading or pulls their images, there are 5 to take his/her place.

Does anyone here really think the influx of contributors will slow down giving each of us a say so in how a sites does its business?  Please Not in my lifetime

Bottom line is Im guilty of most of the above.  However after watching and reading for a while Ive come to realize it does nothing other than to get something off our chest.  Other than that its just a worthless rant.  This post can now be classified as just that..a worthless rantOk, Im done now.. Now its your turn to rant a little. ; - )


« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2008, 17:38 »
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I agree with most of above and I can also say "mea culpa". But I am new here so I did not learn to have right perspective for things. Once I got more "experience" I probably will no longer appear here complaining  ;D

CofkoCof

« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2008, 17:57 »
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I complained about rejections on some vectors at 123rf. They accepted them after Alex saw the topic. Another bonus point for 123rf:
http://www.microstockgroup.com/index.php/topic,4579.0.html

PaulieWalnuts

  • We Have Exciting News For You
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2008, 21:47 »
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So you're complaining about how many people complain here and how useless complaining is?  And then encouraging people to complain? ???
« Last Edit: May 31, 2008, 09:25 by PaulieWalnuts »

suwanneeredhead

  • O.I.D. Sufferer (Obsessive Illustration Disorder)
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2008, 22:46 »
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Ha ha, right?

Maybe we could start a new trend (or get back to the way it used to be here), and start being optimistic and encouraging to each other and forward-thinking and HAPPY!

Quit yer bitchin'!

« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2008, 23:16 »
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Does anyone have an example of a microstock site reacting in a positive manner to a rant or complaint in a forum?

iirc when StockXpert was planing their subs scheme they posted a usd0.25 idea on their forum. most people there were let's say less than happy with that and their subs ended up being usd 0.30...

Does anyone here actually think the complaining works?  Or are folks just blowing off steam knowing full well nothing will change?

50/50   ;D

« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2008, 01:56 »
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I have seen quite a few examples of site reps responding to postings in this forum in the last year or so. The sites do read what we are discussing.

« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2008, 05:45 »
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People who feel that they have been treated unfairly need a place to complain where they will be understood.  Most of us probably do not have spouses who would know exactly what we are complaining about.  They may be sympathetic, but they do not fully understand and cannot give advice based on actul experience with the micros.
If we complain on the forum boards than the sites actually do give a rat's tail about it.  They shut down the thread, remove he thread and possibly ban you from posting again.  At least here we can get undrstanding and advice from others who are in the same boat.
Does it make a difference in site policy? probably not.
Can it make a difference for the person complaining? quite possibly.

« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2008, 06:43 »
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I my opinion not that my opinion matters people that rant and rave about the microstock
Agencies are less experienced with microstock game then others, complaining and threatening will not work, agencies are going to do what they need to do with their business and you as the photographer like it or leave it.

Another point if your complaining about rejection just think about the strike three your out rule if three agencies reject your photo it is bad

I dont hear the top photographer around the world complaining you all know you I mean.  I agree with Suwannee Quote (Maybe we could start a new trend (or get back to the way it used to be here), and start being optimistic and encouraging to each other and forward-thinking and HAPPY!

Quit yer bitchin'!) ;D

« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2008, 06:59 »
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We, Keith and I, pay attention to your postings here and elsewhere. They help us make sound decisions that are based on your opinions and experiences. Keep them coming !!

Pm

« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2008, 09:47 »
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Forums are the equivalent of gathering around the coffee station and bitching about the boss. A healthy outlet. The wise boss has a "plant" that feeds back the info.

« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2008, 09:52 »
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IMO the sites see 95% of us as pawns.  They could care less if we stop uploading to them. We can complain all we want to whom ever we want but nothing will change.  Do you disagree?

For every photog who either stops uploading or pulls their images, there are 5 to take his/her place.

Does anyone here really think the influx of contributors will slow down giving each of us a say so in how a sites does its business?  Please Not in my lifetime

You are right - they don't give a crap about us, and the recent 23 cent sub announcement if a perfect example of that.  They are sure to acquire several thousand new photographers this year, so why would they need be concerned about you and I?   Wont' it be interesting to see who the good guys play out to be and who is actually concerned for the welfare of their artists as much as their bottom line.

And you are also right - it won't make a bit of difference if I pull my portfolio, or if me and 1000 others like me remove our portfolios.

I don't know about you, but if I knew that the guy who runs the corner store got a young girl drunk and pimped her out to a pal I would never go to his corner store again.   Doesn't it appear that some of these agencies are "taking advantage" of their situation?   At some point we all have to decide if we are working for a pimp or an agent and where our breaking point is. 

If 23 cent sales become the new norm, I'll need to find a new hobby.

Yes, there's a lot of complaining going on - but it seems that this particular season has had a lot of things to complain about.

« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2008, 10:13 »
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Face it. We're just the suppliers of ammo. The sites themselves will be the casualties. We can always make more ammo and sell to the survivors. We may be a bit poorer for it but we're not out of business.

rinderart

« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2008, 11:01 »
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I know for sure SS reads 90% of the larger threads and We have actually made a difference at times. So rant away if you believe in something. I do.

lisafx

« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2008, 11:36 »
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I my opinion not that my opinion matters people that rant and rave about the microstock
Agencies are less experienced with microstock game then others, complaining and threatening will not work, agencies are going to do what they need to do with their business and you as the photographer like it or leave it.

Another point if your complaining about rejection just think about the strike three your out rule if three agencies reject your photo it is bad

I dont hear the top photographer around the world complaining you all know you I mean.  I agree with Suwannee Quote (Maybe we could start a new trend (or get back to the way it used to be here), and start being optimistic and encouraging to each other and forward-thinking and HAPPY!

Quit yer bitchin'!) ;D


To address your points one by one:

Yes, more experienced microstockers do complain in the forums.  And they are the ones taken seriously.  I have been doing this for over three years and make my full time living at it.  I don't complain often, but when I do it is over something I feel is important. 

And yes, I have seen many examples of sites taking the complaints of contributors seriously and changing things.  Most recently SS had a rogue reviewer who was rejecting nearly everthing they looked at.  Huge numbers of contributors were affected.  Thanks to complaints in the forums the batches were reinspected and the overwhelming majority were accepted. 

When I first joined Fotolia 85% of my initial submission (100 or so pics) was rejected for various reasons.  I complained in an independent forum.  Because I had a good track record of sales and acceptance at other sites Chad stepped in and had my pics reinspected and all but a couple were accepted and are selling well. 

And yes, the number one photographer in the world does complain.  Not over picky stuff, but like many of us, he speaks up when he feels strongly about something.  Recently he had a thread here in on MSG complaining about subscriptions.  And he also complained on SS's boards over the low raise they just handed out. 

So in conclusion, the people who have been doing this for a long time and rely on it for their living DO complain in the forums (when they feel an issue is serious) and those complaints HAVE made a difference. 

« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2008, 12:06 »
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Face it. We're just the suppliers of ammo. The sites themselves will be the casualties. We can always make more ammo and sell to the survivors. We may be a bit poorer for it but we're not out of business.
perfectly spoken  ;)

« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2008, 12:57 »
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Yes, fotolia have raised their sub. sale commissions by a few cents with promises of more to come after lots of complaints in theirs and other forums


Does anyone have an example of a microstock site reacting in a positive manner to a rant or complaint in a forum?





« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2008, 13:04 »
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Yes, fotolia have raised their sub. sale commissions by a few cents with promises of more to come after lots of complaints in theirs and other forums

I'm not sure this was really a response to forum complaints, but rather an intentional move.  They must have expected to pay more from the start, then they announce less, people complain, they raise the commissions insignificantly and yet people think it's a victory. 

Regards,
Adelaide

lisafx

« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2008, 14:12 »
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They haven't raised anything for most contributors on the higher end.  Just the bottom end.  Nothing in there for emerald level producers to be happy about at all.  In fact we are making less than I thought at .29...
« Last Edit: May 31, 2008, 14:26 by lisafx »

jsnover

« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2008, 20:13 »
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Does anyone have an example of a microstock site reacting in a positive manner to a rant or complaint in a forum?

Yes. When DT announced that there would be a 1 year commitment for images to remain on the site, there was a huge angry noise from contributors and a number of us stopped uploading. After a bit of back and forth they announced that it would be 6 months and most of us decided we could live with that - didn't like it, but it seemed within reason.

When 123rf (in its early days) played games with payments (both PayPal and check) and started telling everyone different stories, we all compared notes and put pressure on them to stop the excuses (and they were amazingly creative) and start paying. They did.

DT wanted to have models names, addresses and ages in the online database of model releases. A number of contributors protested about the security of that sensitive data and not wanting their models to be compromised if the site got hacked. DT backed off.

The StockXpert subscription example was posted above, and that fuss got us an opt out and 30 cents instead of 25 cents for commission.

BigStock started doing resale deals without telling anyone upfront (within the terms of their contract, but they should have told contributors directly). We found the images online, found they were from BigStock and some of us didn't like the terms and wanted to be able to opt out. Tim implemented the opt out.

iStock dumped the Forometer :)

FT charged for every Paypal conversion. We fussed and suggested that with a minimum cashout, there should be no fee. They changed, and for a long time you could cash out at $2 with a fee, but over $50 there was no fee. They recently just set the minimum to $50 and for the most part no one complained (they should have announced it, but it was in line with other sites).

There are probably some other examples as one tries to forget some of this to avoid total insanity. However I firmly believe that we can make changes if we complain constructively and are willing to back that up with action. I also believe that if we don't, the sites won't think twice about implementing policies that benefit them at our expense.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2008, 20:21 by jsnover »

« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2008, 22:51 »
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When in the beginning of 2008 istockphoto was going to squeeze some extra money out of European (and especially British) buyers with a quite annoying subtle change in the pricing scheme and some phantasy-based exchange rates  (therefore almost doubling the costs for some European buyers, flanked by an even more annoying explanation) some small "riots" in their forum finally helped to revert istocks decision after a few days. AFAIR Bruce L. aka bitter himself took the blame for that attempt and wrote an excuse ...

« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2008, 08:00 »
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jsnover has a mind like a steel trap...I'm reading and going, "oh yeah...I remeber...oh yeah...that too".

« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2008, 09:13 »
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And yes, the number one photographer in the world does complain.  Not over picky stuff, but like many of us, he speaks up when he feels strongly about something.  Recently he had a thread here in on MSG complaining about subscriptions.  And he also complained on SS's boards over the low raise they just handed out.

Shows the "number one photographer" may actually need to do something, instead of complaining.

« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2008, 09:51 »
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Yes, more experienced microstockers do complain in the forums.  And they are the ones taken seriously.  I have been doing this for over three years and make my full time living at it.  I don't complain often, but when I do it is over something I feel is important. 
 

In the matter of rejections:
Herein lies a major problem.  Choose and pick your battles.  Too often photogs bitch and moan over every rejection that gets kicked back to them.  When you're burning up the cable with flaming mail to every agency over every rejection because in your humble opinion,  'Hey, that's a great shot, you people are....... '    you only galvanize the individuals that have to deal with your gripes!  I know,  I've had to deal with my share of customer complaints over 35 years. I know how I react.

     Stop complaining about nonsense. If you want to be taken as a serious photographer.....   act like one.  As lisafx said,  "I don't complain often, but when I do it is over something I feel is important."  amen to that, sister!!     8)=tom
 
 


 

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