Author Topic: NFTs and License Terms (Read 14797 times)

Justanotherphotographer · « **on:** January 13, 2022, 03:52 »

I’ve had a few people contact me recently trying to get me to partner with them on NFTs, even had some say they have already made NFTs of my work after buying a license from one of the sites. My answer has always been no as these people are, for the most part, spivs who bring zero to the table from their end.

Anyway where does this fit in with existing license terms? As far as I understand it an NFT is just a receipt with the artwork hosted on a webpage the receipt points to. They are kind of implying they own the copyright I guess? But again this isn’t explicit in the sale usually (I don’t think?) Where do/ would you point someone to in the Terms of any of the big sites to say it isn’t allowed? Could it come under “no redistribution” clauses even though the original file isn’t “distributed” with the NFT? I think agencies are bit behind the times not explicitly spelling it out to be honest.

If anyone can find somewhere in the Canva terms that would be especially of interest as that is where the most recent person downloaded my work from.

fotoVoyager · « **Reply #1 on:** January 13, 2022, 08:24 »

Unfortunately there's nothing to stop unscrupulous chancers from selling anyone's work as a NFT, even those that have already been sold as one before. All you're buying with an image NFT is a location on the block chain saying this bit with this image attached belongs to you. Buying an NFT confers no image rights to the buyer, either copyright or the right to distribute it further or any kind of licensing at all.

I imagine none of the agencies have specific legalese in place to try to prevent image licensees minting their download as a NFT yet, but I'm sure it'll be coming soon. Not that that will stop them of course...

Justanotherphotographer · « **Reply #2 on:** January 13, 2022, 08:52 »

So at the moment I can't say to someone with a standard RF license that they aren't allowed to sell an NFT of my work?

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #3 on:** January 13, 2022, 09:29 »

Quote from: Justanotherphotographer on January 13, 2022, 08:52

So at the moment I can't say to someone with a standard RF license that they aren't allowed to sell an NFT of my work?

Of course you can. An NFT implies that someone “owns” a digital photo, file or whatever and is transferring ownership to someone else. These people don’t “own” the work. You do. A license doesn’t change that.

Justanotherphotographer · « **Reply #4 on:** January 13, 2022, 09:44 »

Quote from: Sean Locke Photography on January 13, 2022, 09:29

Quote from: Justanotherphotographer on January 13, 2022, 08:52
So at the moment I can't say to someone with a standard RF license that they aren't allowed to sell an NFT of my work?

Of course you can. An NFT implies that someone “owns” a digital photo, file or whatever and is transferring ownership to someone else. These people don’t “own” the work. You do. A license doesn’t change that.

That's what I was hoping as licenses usually have a clause prohibiting the buyer from claiming copyright, which was always what ownership has meant. But does an NFT explicitly state person who minted it owns the copyright or is this all just implied?

Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #5 on:** January 13, 2022, 11:16 »

NFTs can be offered without any ownership implied or required. That's why it's such a useless fad.

The record of the transaction is "secure", but that's it. I could sell as many NFTs of the Brooklyn Bridge as there would be gullible buyers to take me up on the offer.

And if there were detailed promises or terms with a deal, who would enforce that if the seller later reneged?

Anyone who uses one of your images without a license (directly) from you or an agency representing you needs to get a license. Your costs to go after them may be more than you want to pay.

Justanotherphotographer · « **Reply #6 on:** January 13, 2022, 11:23 »

Quote from: Jo Ann Snover on January 13, 2022, 11:16

NFTs can be offered without any ownership implied or required. That's why it's such a useless fad.

The record of the transaction is "secure", but that's it. I could sell as many NFTs of the Brooklyn Bridge as there would be gullible buyers to take me up on the offer.

And if there were detailed promises or terms with a deal, who would enforce that if the seller later reneged?

Anyone who uses one of your images without a license (directly) from you or an agency representing you needs to get a license. Your costs to go after them may be more than you want to pay.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

Thanks Jo Ann. It's pretty straight forward if they don't have a license at all (I think? doesn't an NFT "point" people a version of the image which a seller would have no right to display without some kind of license?). It would also be good if I could tell the ones who do have a license to quit it by pointing to a clause in the license forbidding it.

Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #7 on:** January 13, 2022, 11:39 »

Quote from: Justanotherphotographer on January 13, 2022, 11:23

...It's pretty straight forward if they don't have a license at all (I think? doesn't an NFT "point" people a version of the image which a seller would have no right to display without some kind of license?). It would also be good if I could tell the ones who do have a license to quit it by pointing to a clause in the license forbidding it.

None of the agencies specifically forbid offering a licensed work as part of an NFT, but you see language like (from Adobe's license page) a standard license forbidding: "Create merchandise, templates, or other products for resale or distribution where the primary value of the product is associated with the asset itself." I can't imagine anyone paying for an extended license to sell an NFT - but that would be analogous to selling prints with an extended license, which is allowed.

If the NFT was offering a web page with a mix of content - like syndicated articles with an embedded licensed image - I'd think that would meet the license terms. The value would be in the whole collection of content, not just the image.

Have you been able to find any specific language for an NFT offer from any of the charlatans who have contacted you? That might help to pin down if they've violated any license terms.

Edited to add links to a couple of articles explaining just how little "there" there is in NFTs. You own the record, but that's about it.

https://www.theverge.com/22310188/nft-explainer-what-is-blockchain-crypto-art-faq

https://www.protocol.com/newsletters/protocol-fintech/nft-ip-rights?rebelltitem=1#rebelltitem1

From the above, this quote:

"The NFT rights question comes amid a swirling debate over compensating creators.... It’s a debate about whether creators should retain rights forever, or whether NFT owners should reap the rewards of participating in and promoting those NFTs for the creators. With NFTs seeping into more of the broader creator world, expect to see these issues heat up."

The article below mentions one instance of a DMCA take down notice being sent to a would-be NFT seller who had ripped off the original owner of a work. But as you'll see, this is a really messy area

https://www.reuters.com/legal/transactional/what-are-copyright-implications-nfts-2021-10-29/

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #8 on:** January 13, 2022, 11:42 »

Opinion matches mine: "NFTs are a tired pump and dump scam wrapped in high tech clothing."

Plus some background on what they are and are not.

https://mcn.edu/mcn-insights-nfts-are-a-scam/#:~:text=In%20brief%2C%20they%E2%80%99re%20a%20scam.%20An%20NFT%20is,to%20secure%20digital%20certificates%20of%20ownership%20of%20artworks.

Source:
Museum Computer Network Inc.
228 Park Avenue South, #32991
New York, NY 10003
Disclosure

MCN is a 501(c)(3) not-for-profit corporation incorporated in the State of New York, U.S.A.

Justanotherphotographer · « **Reply #9 on:** January 13, 2022, 12:23 »

Quote from: Jo Ann Snover on January 13, 2022, 11:39

Quote from: Justanotherphotographer on January 13, 2022, 11:23
...It's pretty straight forward if they don't have a license at all (I think? doesn't an NFT "point" people a version of the image which a seller would have no right to display without some kind of license?). It would also be good if I could tell the ones who do have a license to quit it by pointing to a clause in the license forbidding it.

None of the agencies specifically forbid offering a licensed work as part of an NFT, but you see language like (from Adobe's license page) a standard license forbidding: "Create merchandise, templates, or other products for resale or distribution where the primary value of the product is associated with the asset itself." I can't imagine anyone paying for an extended license to sell an NFT - but that would be analogous to selling prints with an extended license, which is allowed.

If the NFT was offering a web page with a mix of content - like syndicated articles with an embedded licensed image - I'd think that would meet the license terms. The value would be in the whole collection of content, not just the image.

Have you been able to find any specific language for an NFT offer from any of the charlatans who have contacted you? That might help to pin down if they've violated any license terms.

Thanks Jo Ann, I think that an NFT would definitely fall into "primary value of the product is associated with the asset itself."

Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #10 on:** January 13, 2022, 12:32 »

Quote from: Justanotherphotographer on January 13, 2022, 12:23

... I think that an NFT would definitely fall into "primary value of the product is associated with the asset itself."

One would think so, but look at this law firm's view of these transactions, in particular this quote: "With respect to the reproduction right, if the NFT includes a digital copy of the asset, there is potential for this to amount to an unauthorised reproduction that may amount to infringement of copyright. However, in circumstances where there is no reproduction of the underlying asset in the creation of an NFT, there is arguably no infringement. "

https://www.nortonrosefulbright.com/en/knowledge/publications/1a1abb9f/nfts-and-intellectual-property-rights

On a separate note, given agencies' general lack of vigor in pursuing infringements of other kinds, I can't imagine them going after NFT abuse of license rights. More likely they'll open an NFT marketplace! Associated Press has done it...

fotoVoyager · « **Reply #11 on:** January 13, 2022, 12:41 »

I'm sure all the agencies are figuring out ways to sell our work as NFTs with the minimum possible royalty to the artist.

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #12 on:** January 13, 2022, 12:53 »

Quote from: fotoVoyager on January 13, 2022, 12:41

I'm sure all the agencies are figuring out ways to sell our work as NFTs with the minimum possible royalty to the artist.

And you can bet that Getty is at the head of the list of those agencies and will give us 10% in the form of some useless crypto coin that costs $50 to redeem into real money.

Now I'm getting happy that Getty disabled my news images and the last one that went to an AP source, I specifically marked as not for re-distribution. For those who might some day come across that. I sell the rights to "The Local Newspaper" who is an AP member. I get paid for one use and AP distributes the image to 1,400 newspapers to use for free. That's how the system works.

Interesting find Jo Ann

cascoly · « **Reply #13 on:** January 13, 2022, 13:31 »

cascoly · « **Reply #14 on:** January 13, 2022, 13:38 »

Quote from: cascoly on January 13, 2022, 13:31

Quote from: Justanotherphotographer on January 13, 2022, 03:52
...

As far as I understand it an NFT is just a receipt with the artwork hosted on a webpage the receipt points to. They are kind of implying they own the copyright I guess? ...

a URL can be changed or deleted, so the NFT image needs to be part of the blockchain to have any long-term integrity

Belish · « **Reply #15 on:** January 14, 2022, 15:48 »

Hello,
Can we sell as NFTs our stock images that have been sold already many times on stocks sites?
Isn't the idea that when someone buys a NFT that the image is exclusive and never used before?
Thanks!

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #16 on:** January 14, 2022, 15:52 »

Quote from: Belish on January 14, 2022, 15:48

Hello,
Can we sell as NFTs your stock images that have been sold already many times on stocks sites?
Isn't the idea that when someone buys a NFT that the image is exclusive and never used before?
Thanks!

No. "Buying" an NFT does not confer any rights at all. Just "ownership" of that digital file.

fotoVoyager · « **Reply #17 on:** January 14, 2022, 15:54 »

Yes, you can sell any image as an NFT. If you wanted you could try to improve the offer by promising all kinds of bonus sweeteners like saying it hadn’t been sold before, but it’s not necessary. There are no rules where NFTs are concerned.

Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #18 on:** January 15, 2022, 14:42 »

This is an interesting read about NFTs (and also about blockchain, the nature of platforms and the difficulties of change in decentralized systems). Search for NFT if you want to skip to that part. It's worth emphasizing a point at the end about how the intermediaries - in this case OpenSea - are gatekeepers to access your secure-in-the-blockchain item.

"All this means that if your NFT is removed from OpenSea, it also disappears from your wallet. It doesn’t functionally matter that my NFT is indelibly on the blockchain somewhere, because the wallet (and increasingly everything else in the ecosystem) is just using the OpenSea API to display NFTs"

https://moxie.org/2022/01/07/web3-first-impressions.html

fotoVoyager · « **Reply #19 on:** January 15, 2022, 17:42 »

That is interesting. Seems to make the whole image buying thing even more inexplicably stupid.

Still, if people want to buy them, we should be there. Caveat emptor and all that.

cathyslife · « **Reply #20 on:** January 18, 2022, 22:53 »

Just ran across this on Twitter. Who woulda ever guessed?

https://twitter.com/i/events/1483477984740724740?s=21

Justanotherphotographer · « **Reply #21 on:** January 19, 2022, 04:11 »

Quote from: Jo Ann Snover on January 15, 2022, 14:42

This is an interesting read about NFTs (and also about blockchain, the nature of platforms and the difficulties of change in decentralized systems). Search for NFT if you want to skip to that part. It's worth emphasizing a point at the end about how the intermediaries - in this case OpenSea - are gatekeepers to access your secure-in-the-blockchain item.

"All this means that if your NFT is removed from OpenSea, it also disappears from your wallet. It doesn’t functionally matter that my NFT is indelibly on the blockchain somewhere, because the wallet (and increasingly everything else in the ecosystem) is just using the OpenSea API to display NFTs"

https://moxie.org/2022/01/07/web3-first-impressions.html

That's what I thought. The image isn't actually "in" the NFT. It's basically like a receipt for a link saying the person who owns the NFT owns whatever is at the end of the link.

Justanotherphotographer · « **Reply #22 on:** January 19, 2022, 04:20 »

Seems like at the moment there's a market for legitimate digital artwork in curated places like SuperRare (and NiftyGateway?).

There’s a market for hugely expensive NFTs that are not really pieces of art but rather memberships to “clubs” like the Bored Ape Yacht Club (BAYC), that come with all sorts of perks and bragging rights based on "rarity" of the “membership card”. Think being a member of an exclusive golf club paying hundreds of thousands per year for membership.

Then dwarfing both of those there’s the hords spivs, with varying amounts of understanding, grifting off the gold rush.

fotoVoyager · « **Reply #23 on:** January 20, 2022, 12:31 »

I've spent the day uploading a few images to opensea to see what I could see. I'll report back if there's any interest. I imagine without some kind of well targeted social media campaign there's little point, but you never know.

https://opensea.io/fotoVoyager?tab=created_collections

Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #24 on:** January 20, 2022, 12:57 »

I went to take a look, but I don't understand where I can find a description of what you're actually selling - for $6,273.90. I was a bit taken aback by the price.

I am a totally clueless clod with respect to OpenSea's marketplace, but I expected to be able to find out if I would be buying a JPEG, a license, a print, the copyright, or...?

I clicked on the link about unlockable content, but saw a popup with gray lines and a note that "This content can only be unlocked and revealed by the owner of this item." Is that what I would get if I would purchase?

Your photos are lovely, but I'm guessing that's not the primary appeal for an OpenSea buyer. I could just license an image of yours from iStock.

It's an interesting experiment - good luck with it - but can you elaborate on what exactly you're offering with your NFTs?

fotoVoyager · « **Reply #25 on:** January 20, 2022, 13:02 »

Ah, you're assuming I know any more than you!

It's the blind leading the blind here I fear.

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #26 on:** January 20, 2022, 14:27 »

It's crazy. Nowhere on the site does it actually say what you're "buying". Not in the terms, the FAQ, the help, or anything.

fotoVoyager · « **Reply #27 on:** January 20, 2022, 16:15 »

I think this is where Gen X gets left behind.

SpaceStockFootage · « **Reply #28 on:** January 20, 2022, 21:31 »

I've heard it all now!

https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/books/a38815538/dune-crypto-nft-sale-mistake-explained/

ShadySue · « **Reply #29 on:** January 21, 2022, 05:08 »

Quote from: SpaceStockFootage on January 20, 2022, 21:31

I've heard it all now!

https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/books/a38815538/dune-crypto-nft-sale-mistake-
explained/

ShadySue · « **Reply #30 on:** January 21, 2022, 05:10 »

Quote from: fotoVoyager on January 20, 2022, 16:15

I think this is where Gen X gets left behind.

Whereas Baby Boomers can see that the Emperor has No Clothes.

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #31 on:** January 21, 2022, 10:09 »

https://petapixel.com/2022/01/20/student-becomes-a-millionaire-after-turning-selfies-into-nfts-as-a-joke/

ShadySue · « **Reply #32 on:** January 21, 2022, 11:55 »

Quote from: Sean Locke Photography on January 21, 2022, 10:09

https://petapixel.com/2022/01/20/student-becomes-a-millionaire-after-turning-selfies-into-nfts-as-a-joke/

Grief, there's one born every minute.
I suppose the secret is to exploit their idiocy.

(No-one would pay even 3c for a link to a selfie of me!)

S2D2 · « **Reply #33 on:** January 21, 2022, 13:29 »

Quote from: ShadySue on January 21, 2022, 11:55

Quote from: Sean Locke Photography on January 21, 2022, 10:09
https://petapixel.com/2022/01/20/student-becomes-a-millionaire-after-turning-selfies-into-nfts-as-a-joke/
Grief, there's one born every minute.
I suppose the secret is to exploit their idiocy.

(No-one would pay even 3c for a link to a selfie of me!)

Shutterstock would pay you 10 cents ...

Justanotherphotographer · « **Reply #34 on:** January 22, 2022, 05:00 »

Pretty geat video breaking down NFTs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ_xWvX1n9g

Around 45 mins in it goes into link rot problems but whole thing is worth a listen

Belish · « **Reply #35 on:** January 22, 2022, 13:31 »

Quote from: fotoVoyager on January 20, 2022, 12:31

I've spent the day uploading a few images to opensea to see what I could see. I'll report back if there's any interest. I imagine without some kind of well targeted social media campaign there's little point, but you never know.

https://opensea.io/fotoVoyager?tab=created_collections

Hello, fotoVoyager,
I see you have 6 collections for sale.
How many transaction fees in ETH did you pay for the process and how much in total?
I am willing to give it a try but I am still researching the whole thing. Unfortunately most of the people say you have to be active (mostly on Twitter... and I do now have one) and you have to do the marketing, which is way different compared with stock sites.
Thanks in advance!

cascoly · « **Reply #36 on:** January 22, 2022, 13:31 »

meanwhile, facebook & instagram are rumored to be setting up an NFT marketplace - the bubble's expanding

Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #37 on:** January 22, 2022, 13:44 »

https://www.theverge.com/2022/1/20/22892917/meta-facebook-instagram-plans-make-show-case-sell-nfts

Story about Facebook/Instagram's NFT plans

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #38 on:** January 22, 2022, 15:30 »

The only way someone can tell if your NFTs are actually from the collection that they appear to be is to click on your profile picture and check the details. Otherwise, a fake BAYC toke (like this one) looks at first glance just like the officially minted one (here). Twitter’s head of consumer product marketing Justin Taylor says this is on purpose, and that “We don’t want to limit this to just verified collections, that would be wrong, and non supportive of the broader nft movement. Anyone SHOULD be able to mint anything and make it their nft.”

https://www.theverge.com/2022/1/20/22893502/nft-twitter-profile-picture-crypto-wallet-opensea-coinbase-right-click

This is insane! But I suppose instead of pointing out that it's a lunatic investment and people will eventually be angry and hurt, I need to open an account and try to sell some of this non-fungible voodoo.

As some other have posted, I have serious doubt that anyone, anywhere will want ANYTHING that I make.

I joined Open Sea, I created a NFT. Lots of forms and folders, icons and banner and avatar stuff. I don't know, but at least I've had the experience of seeing what the process is like.

https://t.co/pvfwiyslCo

I couldn't see where I could set a price or minimum, so I guess it's all about offers. I was going to start at .006 ETH!

cascoly · « **Reply #39 on:** January 22, 2022, 19:20 »

i've been playing with oceansea also, mostly because they eliminate most gas fees you'd otherwise pay - after you upload the image, there's a pricing box on the left - you can choose buy-it or auction and then price it in $ or ETH. creating collections & NFT is intuitive on opensea, but what's taken me longest is setting up accts - you have to go thru multiple levels of ID verification. - i'm using metamask wallet & coinbase to buy ETH, now waiting for my bank to confirm my purchase, but i'm waiting to be able to tfr it to my wallet (to pay the initiation fee - about .10 ETH) I'm doing everything on PC since with my tremors, mobile apps are a pain (took me multiple tries to be able to take a decent pic of my driver's license!). so far tech support has been decent

the ETH I bot stays the same, but on a purchase off $350, my ETH value has gone down $50 and up $20 in the last day or 2 - it's highly volatile, so crypto's not something I'll be using as an investment. my eqpt/overhead has been low the last 2 years, so I've figured this was worth a try.

fotoVoyager · « **Reply #40 on:** January 23, 2022, 09:29 »

Quote from: Belish on January 22, 2022, 13:31

Quote from: fotoVoyager on January 20, 2022, 12:31
I've spent the day uploading a few images to opensea to see what I could see. I'll report back if there's any interest. I imagine without some kind of well targeted social media campaign there's little point, but you never know.

https://opensea.io/fotoVoyager?tab=created_collections

Hello, fotoVoyager,
I see you have 6 collections for sale.
How many transaction fees in ETH did you pay for the process and how much in total?
I am willing to give it a try but I am still researching the whole thing. Unfortunately most of the people say you have to be active (mostly on Twitter... and I do now have one) and you have to do the marketing, which is way different compared with stock sites.
Thanks in advance!

I minted my images on the Polygon blockchain, so there's no gas fees. There is a 2.5% fee when a NFT is sold though.

cobalt · « **Reply #41 on:** January 23, 2022, 11:54 »

What I would be interested in and where NFTs would make sense to me is if the contract is written that every time the NFT is resold I get a percentage.

Then it would be interesting to create unique NFTs/images/art and include in the contract everytime a collector resells it I get 30%. or 50%. Or 10%…

The money should of course be sent over to me automatically.

Then it would really make sense to create unique images, charge accordingly and if the collectors NFT market really grows, watch my files get resold.

You would basically be avoiding auction houses, galleries etc as intermediaries.

Could also be interesting for unique editorial.

But it needs a marketplace that is professionally run, with real copyright protection.

SpaceStockFootage · « **Reply #42 on:** January 23, 2022, 13:08 »

Quote from: cobalt on January 23, 2022, 11:54

What I would be interested in and where NFTs would make sense to me is if the contract is written that every time the NFT is resold I get a percentage.

Then it would be interesting to create unique NFTs/images/art and include in the contract everytime a collector resells it I get 30%. or 50%. Or 10%…

The money should of course be sent over to me automatically.

Then it would really make sense to create unique images, charge accordingly and if the collectors NFT market really grows, watch my files get resold.

You would basically be avoiding auction houses, galleries etc as intermediaries.

Could also be interesting for unique editorial.

But it needs a marketplace that is professionally run, with real copyright protection.

That's how most of the marketplaces do it... the original author gets 10% of any future sales, so it can amount to several times the original cost of the item. Especially if they increase in value over time. 'With real copyright protection...' would be the thing though. Unless there's something going on that I've not heard about, that doesn't really exist at the moment. The much-vaunted decentralized nature of the blockchain, and the lack of oversight, regulation and middlemen might be a good thing for financial freedom and impartiality... but it means that anybody can easily mint and sell anything, whether it belongs to them or not.

cascoly · « **Reply #43 on:** January 23, 2022, 13:43 »

also, oceansea has a freeze option where the NFT image itself is stored in blockchain

Justanotherphotographer · « **Reply #44 on:** January 23, 2022, 15:30 »

Quote from: SpaceStockFootage on January 23, 2022, 13:08

Quote from: cobalt on January 23, 2022, 11:54
What I would be interested in and where NFTs would make sense to me is if the contract is written that every time the NFT is resold I get a percentage.

Then it would be interesting to create unique NFTs/images/art and include in the contract everytime a collector resells it I get 30%. or 50%. Or 10%…

The money should of course be sent over to me automatically.

Then it would really make sense to create unique images, charge accordingly and if the collectors NFT market really grows, watch my files get resold.

You would basically be avoiding auction houses, galleries etc as intermediaries.

Could also be interesting for unique editorial.

But it needs a marketplace that is professionally run, with real copyright protection.

That's how most of the marketplaces do it... the original author gets 10% of any future sales, so it can amount to several times the original cost of the item. Especially if they increase in value over time. 'With real copyright protection...' would be the thing though. Unless there's something going on that I've not heard about, that doesn't really exist at the moment. The much-vaunted decentralized nature of the blockchain, and the lack of oversight, regulation and middlemen might be a good thing for financial freedom and impartiality... but it means that anybody can easily mint and sell anything, whether it belongs to them or not.

Apparently that's another thing about NFTs that doesn't quite work as advertised. The resale percentage only makes its way back to the artist if you resell on the same marketplace . That video I posted above was a real eye opener.

S2D2 · « **Reply #45 on:** January 25, 2022, 15:15 »

Metaphysical memorabilia anyone?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60121538

OM · « **Reply #46 on:** January 26, 2022, 05:48 »

Quote from: DO on January 25, 2022, 15:15

Metaphysical memorabilia anyone?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60121538

Line from that article:

"With some NFTs changing hands for tens of millions of dollars, the value of the market in digital art and collectables is now approaching that of the global art trade."
Strewth!

offisapup · « **Reply #47 on:** January 26, 2022, 06:12 »

I think generally there is a very limited view of the potential of NFTs. It's not just a picture or artwork you put up and sell. Well, it is that, but can also be much more. Much of the utility of NFTs now (apart from the greater fool theory type stuff) is in play to earn games like Axie Infinity and Metawars and a lot of what people consider "bad NFT art" is utilities that people can use in these games to leverage and make more money.

Now I don't have a crystal ball (no one does) and can't predict how the future would pan out but there are many metaverse platforms like Decentraland, Sandbox etc. that are becoming more popular by the day. People are buying virtual land on these gaming platforms for obscene prices. Samsung is setting up a store on Decentraland so gamers can buy virtual mobile phones to use within the game. So it's perhaps not wildly unrealistic for an artist to maybe rent a bit of land (like you would a website) and put up their images for display or for sale. Virtual museums are already a thing and as the tech goes forward, I only see them getting more prominent. So NFTs have an obvious use case here where you could maybe have a virtual exhibition at a gallery with more potential buyers than you would in a physical gallery. So the opportunities are endless and to look at it only from the current (admittedly frustrating) experiences at platforms like opensea or rarible is a bit limited in my opinion.

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #48 on:** January 26, 2022, 13:01 »

Quote from: OM on January 26, 2022, 05:48

Quote from: DO on January 25, 2022, 15:15
Metaphysical memorabilia anyone?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60121538

Line from that article:

"With some NFTs changing hands for tens of millions of dollars, the value of the market in digital art and collectables is now approaching that of the global art trade."
Strewth!

Yes to both but what still gets me is... "The digital tokens can be thought of as certificates of ownership for virtual or physical assets."

People paying money for a virtual asset.

Are there actually any NFTs for anything physical? When someone wants to resell something, they could sell the item as well as transfer ownership in the digital asset paired with that item. So in effect a NFT tied to a physical item is a digital receipt that can't be altered or tampered with.

Quote from: ShadySue on January 21, 2022, 05:10

Whereas Baby Boomers can see that the Emperor has No Clothes.

But the Emperor has a nice invisible virtual suit?

Here's what one of the sites says, beyond their other erroneous claims, (not a direct quote) you can create a NFT for a family recipe and protect it for generations to come. Sorry but you cannot protect or copyright a recipe. A book of them yes, but a single recipe, no.

SpaceStockFootage · « **Reply #49 on:** January 26, 2022, 13:22 »

Quote from: Uncle Pete on January 26, 2022, 13:01

Are there actually any NFTs for anything physical?

Beeple sometimes includes physical items with his NFT's... https://niftygateway.com/itemdetail/primary/0xd92e44ac213b9ebda0178e1523cc0ce177b7fa96/2

Most are all just digital but I've heard of quite a few with physical stuff as well.

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #50 on:** January 26, 2022, 17:50 »

Quote from: SpaceStockFootage on January 26, 2022, 13:22

Quote from: Uncle Pete on January 26, 2022, 13:01
Are there actually any NFTs for anything physical?

Beeple sometimes includes physical items with his NFT's... https://niftygateway.com/itemdetail/primary/0xd92e44ac213b9ebda0178e1523cc0ce177b7fa96/2

Most are all just digital but I've heard of quite a few with physical stuff as well.

After I looked around and got past the scam sites, yes, it appears that some include a digital receipt, proof of ownership, and then a connected product, a physical item. That sounds like a good use. Proof of purchase and registration?

SpaceStockFootage · « **Reply #51 on:** January 26, 2022, 18:52 »

One NFT was by a tennis person and you got to shoot some tennis with them on the Wimbledon pitch for an hour or so. Can't remember who, I don't know the names. Maybe the Scottish one. Or the slightly older English one.

cascoly · « **Reply #52 on:** January 26, 2022, 19:03 »

Quote from: Uncle Pete on January 26, 2022, 13:01

...

Here's what one of the sites says, beyond their other erroneous claims, (not a direct quote) you can create a NFT for a family recipe and protect it for generations to come. Sorry but you cannot protect or copyright a recipe. A book of them yes, but a single recipe, no.

not quite:
"Recipes can be protected under copyright law if they are accompanied by “substantial literary expression.” This expression can be an explanation or detailed directions, which is likely why food and recipe bloggers often share stories and personal anecdotes alongside a recipe’s ingredients". https://copyrightalliance.org/are-recipes-cookbooks-protected-by-copyright/

in practice, i've been amazed how many detailed recipes are plagiarized. i keep finding multiple sites with basically the same recipe - often large chunks word-for-word. and these are large 'respected' sites

ShadySue · « **Reply #53 on:** January 26, 2022, 20:28 »

Quote from: SpaceStockFootage on January 26, 2022, 18:52

One NFT was by a tennis person and you got to shoot some tennis with them on the Wimbledon pitch for an hour or so. Can't remember who, I don't know the names. Maybe the Scottish one. Or the slightly older English one.

In real life? if so, how would the NFT be different from e.g. winning a charity auction for same?

Or virtual like Stan Wawrinka?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-12/tennis-star-stan-wawrinka-jumps-into-nft-game

Or is it getting an NFT for a clip of the moment Sir Andy won Wimbledon?
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/game-set-token-murray-cashes-2013-wimbledon-win-2021-06-24
Because heaven forfend you'd want to watch it on YouTube like a pleb:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PYyEDl1bJk

SpaceStockFootage · « **Reply #54 on:** January 27, 2022, 01:05 »

Yes, that's the one! It was essentially exactly the same as a charity auction... just that none of the money went to charity!* But you get all of the below, plus the NFT and the physical display/box etc. It went for $177,777 in the end.

"In the case of Murray's NFT they also get two tickets to Centre Court for the 2022 men's Wimbledon finals, a chance to play tennis with the 34-year-old and signed souvenirs".

*JUst seen this bit, so some of the money went to charity: "WENEW will receive a portion of the proceeds, but the majority will go to the people involved in making the moment".

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #55 on:** January 27, 2022, 11:09 »

Quote from: cascoly on January 26, 2022, 19:03

Quote from: Uncle Pete on January 26, 2022, 13:01
...

Here's what one of the sites says, beyond their other erroneous claims, (not a direct quote) you can create a NFT for a family recipe and protect it for generations to come. Sorry but you cannot protect or copyright a recipe. A book of them yes, but a single recipe, no.

not quite:
"Recipes can be protected under copyright law if they are accompanied by “substantial literary expression.” This expression can be an explanation or detailed directions, which is likely why food and recipe bloggers often share stories and personal anecdotes alongside a recipe’s ingredients". https://copyrightalliance.org/are-recipes-cookbooks-protected-by-copyright/

in practice, i've been amazed how many detailed recipes are plagiarized. i keep finding multiple sites with basically the same recipe - often large chunks word-for-word. and these are large 'respected' sites

Yes there are always exceptions to a general ruling. “substantial literary expression.” which is (ask a lawyer) what is substantial? Same as appropriation or art which in one jurisdiction is alright as long as there's “substantial modification or alterations” and another it's plagiarism and copyright infringement.

But the easy part is, making a family recipe a NFT doesn't protect it.

As for copying, there are entire websites that are nothing but copied text and information. I mean copy and paste information and answers, that others have copied and pasted and in the future more others will do the same.

iStock, or maybe better said, Getty and their public domain rights grab, is pretty weak. If I take an out of copyright illustration and restore it, or (here we are again?) substantially alter it, I can claim copyright for the new work. What they were doing was just taking scans or photos and calling it theirs, even when it's still public domain. Just making a copy of the original, shouldn't make it a new work.

Maybe the argument, also a stretch in my opinion, is, creating a digital work from an analog version, is now a new work?

Meanwhile the other side: Courts have found that recipes are wholly factual and functional, and therefore uncopyrightable. As the Sixth Circuit described in Tomaydo-Tomahdo, LLC v. Vozary, “the list of ingredients is merely a factual statement, and as previously discussed, facts are not copyrightable. Furthermore, a recipe’s instructions, as functional directions, are statutorily excluded from copyright protection.”

You can't copyright facts or functional instructions. You can't copyright an idea.

Good points that you added, if the story or personal anecdotes are included, they are protected.

So easy enough, if someone copies a recipe, in simple terms, they can copy the ingredients and the instructions, but not photos or personal commentary.

Back at NFTs and what they are and aren't. I'm beginning to like the part where they are a digital receipt for something, locked in code and one of a kind. That could be useful.

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #56 on:** January 29, 2022, 20:12 »

https://petapixel.com/2022/01/28/over-80-of-nfts-minted-for-free-on-opensea-were-fake-or-plagiarized/

cascoly · « **Reply #57 on:** February 03, 2022, 14:44 »

dipping my toes into NFT - took a while to setup & organize, but actual listing is easy

https://opensea.io/collection/landscape-fantasies

Belish · « **Reply #58 on:** February 04, 2022, 03:41 »

I made a collection on Opensea last month too.
It is completely free if you use Polygon network. Images are going to be minted as NFTs only if and when someone buys them.
My conclusion: it does not matter what you offer/sell. It matters who you are. Pretty much the opposite of stock. You have to have Twitter account with many followers already established. And I don't. And do not want to start one.
When I uploaded my images they were immediately lost in the void of radnom other images uploaded every second. And when I say "random" I do not mean it in terms of "stock photography" random. Everybody can upload everything. No limits, no reviews.

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #59 on:** February 04, 2022, 09:19 »

Quote from: Belish on February 04, 2022, 03:41

My conclusion: it does not matter what you offer/sell. It matters who you are. Pretty much the opposite of stock.

I think you hit that out of the park. I did some and then I thought about the real market. I'd have to have a Twitter account and Facebook and drive my public image, get followers, and maybe find someone to buy a NFT. People with good reputations and followings will do much better than anyone just starting up.

Promotion and attraction, gotta have a gimmick. That will do it.

cascoly · « **Reply #60 on:** February 04, 2022, 18:02 »

agree - where SEO is necessary for artist online sales, social media drive NFT

having setup collections, my next step is to work on twitter & instagram -- one sale will beat most agency monthly income (and maybe i'll get 2 sales a month!)

Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #61 on:** February 08, 2022, 13:23 »

I learned a new term from this article about NFTs and rampant plagiarism and theft on OpenSea - lazy minting. It's easy to create listings because you don't actually put anything into the blockchain unless you sell.

The bulk of the article is about how difficult it is for people whose work has been ripped off, especially if it was a large volume of work, scraped by bots, when you have to file individual DMCA take-down notices. There was a suggestion that worked for some to use Google (OpenSea's host) for the takedown notices as they responded faster

https://www.theverge.com/22905295/counterfeit-nft-artist-ripoffs-opensea-deviantart

https://twitter.com/Hapiel/status/1474039458366373890?s=20

ShadySue · « **Reply #62 on:** February 14, 2022, 06:21 »

How is it that apart from a few people who seem to be intent on pushing crypto stuff on various newsgroups I'm on, just about* everything I read about crypto is criminal? And why does that not surprise me?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60369879

*But not quite. The world's largest Black Diamond was bought last week from Sotheby's, which is a famous and long-established UK auctioneer, by 'cryptocurrency' (unspecified)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60328375

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #63 on:** February 14, 2022, 13:03 »

Quote from: ShadySue on February 14, 2022, 06:21

How is it that apart from a few people who seem to be intent on pushing crypto stuff on various newsgroups I'm on, just about* everything I read about crypto is criminal? And why does that not surprise me?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60369879

*But not quite. The world's largest Black Diamond was bought last week from Sotheby's, which is a famous and long-established UK auctioneer, by 'cryptocurrency' (unspecified)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60328375

That shows who's really making money with this pyramid scheme.

"HEX monetizes the time value of money in a totally new and better way. It takes the concept of CDs to the next level: HEX replaces inefficient currencies, banks and payment networks with verifiably secure peer-to-peer technology. "

Yeah baby, get your Beanie's, Pez, Pogs, postage stamps and Franklin Mint limited editions. Collect Crypto

cascoly · « **Reply #64 on:** February 14, 2022, 14:36 »

Quote from: ShadySue on February 14, 2022, 06:21

How is it that apart from a few people who seem to be intent on pushing crypto stuff on various newsgroups I'm on, just about* everything I read about crypto is criminal? And why does that not surprise me?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60369879
...

the fraud concerned NFT, not crypto per se

i'm neither a cryptophile nor a conspiracist, but...
given that transactions are anonymous, one has to wonder why business reporting is so negative (while emphasizing caveat emptor)

ShadySue · « **Reply #65 on:** February 14, 2022, 16:35 »

True, I should have written it better, esp as this thread concerns NFT rather than crypto.
I guess my excuse is that it's all geek to me.

Meanwhile:
https://www.dpreview.com/news/4722710433/nft-marketplace-cent-temporarily-halts-most-trading-due-to-widespread-fraud

cascoly · « **Reply #66 on:** February 14, 2022, 18:00 »

Quote from: ShadySue on February 14, 2022, 16:35

True, I should have written it better, esp as this thread concerns NFT rather than crypto.
I guess my excuse is that it's all geek to me.

Meanwhile:
https://www.dpreview.com/news/4722710433/nft-marketplace-cent-temporarily-halts-most-trading-due-to-widespread-fraud

no problem -- i was mainly amused(?) by the experts who say crypto is mostly criminal with little/no evidence

cascoly · « **Reply #67 on:** February 14, 2022, 18:03 »

drilling down from your post's article i found this:

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/8170416871/nfts-what-they-are-and-how-they-will-impact-photography

alan b traehern · « **Reply #68 on:** February 15, 2022, 08:27 »

Quote from: cascoly on February 14, 2022, 18:00

Quote from: ShadySue on February 14, 2022, 16:35
True, I should have written it better, esp as this thread concerns NFT rather than crypto.
I guess my excuse is that it's all geek to me.

Meanwhile:
https://www.dpreview.com/news/4722710433/nft-marketplace-cent-temporarily-halts-most-trading-due-to-widespread-fraud

no problem -- i was mainly amused(?) by the experts who say crypto is mostly criminal with little/no evidence

NFT Whack-A-Mole
https://protos.com/cent-nft-valuables-right-click-save-hiatus/

ShadySue · « **Reply #69 on:** February 18, 2022, 13:49 »

Meanwhile, the third Mrs Trump is releasing her latest batch of NFTs.
"Trump will be releasing a new collection on February 21, Presidents' Day. She is promoting the "POTUS NFT Collection" as a trove of 10,000 separate NFTs, each priced at $50.

According to a statement released by Trump on Thursday, the collection will highlight "iconic moments" from the Trump administration's four-year run. It will feature 10 digital artworks capturing events ranging from Christmas at the White House to the Trumps' visit to Mount Rushmore in 2020.

The works will not be viewable by buyers until a purchase is made using the Solana cryptocurrency.
"Collectors will enjoy an element of surprise, as the artwork of each NFT is revealed only after purchase," the statement read. "Of course, collectors can make multiple purchases to own the entire POTUS Trump Collection."

https://www.businessinsider.com/melania-trump-launch-nft-collection-iconic-moments-from-trump-presidency-2022-2?r=US&IR=T

I have many thoughts on this, but I'm best to keep them to myself.

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #70 on:** February 18, 2022, 14:46 »

Quote from: ShadySue on February 18, 2022, 13:49

I have many thoughts on this, but I'm best to keep them to myself.

Scamming con-artists until the end.

Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #71 on:** February 18, 2022, 14:52 »

The last NFT issued by these grifters was reportedly bought by the grifters themselves:

https://www.vice.com/en/article/m7vpx8/analyzing-the-very-bizarre-sale-of-melania-trumps-dollar170000-nft

Tossers!

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #72 on:** February 18, 2022, 17:49 »

Quote from: Jo Ann Snover on February 18, 2022, 14:52

The last NFT issued by these grifters was reportedly bought by the grifters themselves:

https://www.vice.com/en/article/m7vpx8/analyzing-the-very-bizarre-sale-of-melania-trumps-dollar170000-nft

Tossers!

I thought crypto was anonymous?

Lets see, pump and dump, they sell out, buying their own, and then the fools think they are going up in value. They NFTs go on sale again, for more.

Rather than focusing on whether an asset, digital or not is overvalued or not, “greater fool” investors assess the likelihood of selling sell the investment to someone else for a higher price than what they paid. At some point the number of investors who think they can find someone else to buy their foolish investment will be less, the values will fall, the market will collapse for that investment.

Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #73 on:** February 18, 2022, 22:17 »

Quote from: Uncle Pete on February 18, 2022, 17:49

I thought crypto was anonymous?

No - at least not in the sense of a record no one can examine. As the article detailed:

"Public blockchains like Solana (and Bitcoin and Ethereum) have the benefit of allowing anybody in the world to follow the money, since every transaction is tied to an address and records are permanent."

It is anonymous in that making the claim to have made the purchase on behalf of an unspecified third party can't be verified. But then we're talking about an enterprise that thought it was OK to lie about the number of floors in a condo development...

From a Nov 2016 NY Times article:

"Or take the Trump International Hotel and Tower, the hotel and residential building on Columbus Circle that was, pre-Trump, the 44-story Gulf & Western office building. Mr. Trump improved the structure so thoroughly that it managed to stretch into a 52-story tower, even though it stayed, strictly speaking, the same height. Because new apartment buildings usually have lower ceilings than office buildings, Mr. Trump explained in 1994, the 583-foot building was about as tall as a conventional 60-story residential building."

"Then there is the Trump World Tower on the East Side, built in 2001, which enraged antagonists as varied as Walter Cronkite (whose views it blocked) and the United Nations (whose height it dwarfed). At 90 stories and 900 feet — actually 70 and 843, according to Buildings Department records — the World Tower was once billed as the “tallest residential tower in the world,” until it was overtaken by a skyscraper in Dubai"

https://www.gq.com/story/donald-trump-glamorizes-his-buildings-by-misnumbering-how-high-the-floors-are
https://www.forbes.com/sites/chasewithorn/2017/05/03/donald-trump-has-been-lying-about-the-size-of-his-penthouse/?sh=912a7d71ef82
https://www.architecturaldigest.com/story/donald-trump-penthouse-size

ShadySue · « **Reply #74 on:** February 19, 2022, 05:01 »

I really wish that Trump and Boris would wander off into the sunset hand in hand.

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #75 on:** February 19, 2022, 09:48 »

Quote from: Jo Ann Snover on February 18, 2022, 22:17

Quote from: Uncle Pete on February 18, 2022, 17:49

I thought crypto was anonymous?

No - at least not in the sense of a record no one can examine. As the article detailed:

"Public blockchains like Solana (and Bitcoin and Ethereum) have the benefit of allowing anybody in the world to follow the money, since every transaction is tied to an address and records are permanent."

I was just pointing out the often claimed part of Crypto benefits, and it's not really true. Crypto transactions are very public.

Trump is slippery and always has been. Way before he got elected the stories were out that the only way he avoided another bankruptcy was the TV shows and that income.

Justanotherphotographer · « **Reply #76 on:** February 19, 2022, 11:48 »

Quote from: Jo Ann Snover on February 18, 2022, 14:52

The last NFT issued by these grifters was reportedly bought by the grifters themselves:

https://www.vice.com/en/article/m7vpx8/analyzing-the-very-bizarre-sale-of-melania-trumps-dollar170000-nft

Tossers!

Apparently not uncommon in the NFT space. The video I posted earlier goes into some examples. Including the biggest sale of an artwork. It's usually to pump/ promote a related crypto currency.

MicrostockGroup Sponsors

Author Topic: NFTs and License Terms (Read 14797 times)

Justanotherphotographer

Justanotherphotographer

Justanotherphotographer

Justanotherphotographer

Justanotherphotographer

Justanotherphotographer

Justanotherphotographer

S2D2

Justanotherphotographer

Justanotherphotographer

S2D2

Justanotherphotographer

Related Topics

Sponsors

Microstock Poll Results

Sponsors