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Author Topic: Nov 2011 - Microstock Earnings Thread  (Read 15381 times)

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« on: December 01, 2011, 01:08 »
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Here are my numbers and a pretty graph


DepositPhotos and PhotoDune are sneaking up fast on BigStock and 123RF.  They are all still only around 3-4% of my total income but they are certainly all battling for 5th place.

Don't forget to vote, I'm interested to see how PhotoDune changes this month.
www.microstockgroup.com/pollsvote/
« Last Edit: December 01, 2011, 01:41 by leaf »


« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2011, 01:31 »
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I had a good month with some interesting surprises.  There were some good surprises, like 123RF and CanStock moving into 2nd and 3rd, and some not so good surprises, like Dreamstime coming in at 1/3 of October, its worst performance in five years.  iStock improved on last month but still just lost out to CanStock for 3rd.  Ignoring last month's bundle payment at PhotoDune, which was big enough to throw off all my statistics, I did 12% better in November than October, and 31% over November, 2010.

Month
Gain/Loss
Year
Gain/Loss
Shutter
38.7%
+1.5%
|
34.1%
+39.0%
123RF
18.5%
+119.5%
|
10.2%
+17.6%
CanStock
10.6%
+604.1%
|
3.8%
+43.4%
iStock
10.5%
+20.5%
|
12.6%
-24.7%
PhotoDune
6.6%
+28.3%
|
11.0%
Dream
3.4%
-64.0%
|
7.7%
-5.4%
Fotolia
3.2%
-20.2%
|
6.4%
-42.8%
BigStock
3.1%
-15.8%
|
4.1%
-16.7%
Deposit
2.9%
-47.0%
|
2.1%
+13.2%
Veer
1.0%
-54.9%
|
4.3%
-49.1%
« Last Edit: December 01, 2011, 17:27 by disorderly »

lagereek

« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2011, 02:10 »
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SS, brillant! DT and FT, very good,  Veer and DP, not bad.  IS, horrible.

XPTO

« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2011, 02:54 »
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IS was a nightmare in November. When I get a 27% drop in the agency that was until recently the most profitable one to me... I get speechless...

Main agencies
SS - +2%
IS - -27%
FL - -5%
DT - +6%

Agencies where a modest variation in $ represent big % numbers
123RF - +24%
BS - +58%
VM - -63%
StockXpert/TS - +4%
SF - -93%

Percentage of the total
SS - 41%
IS - 21%
FL - 18%
DT - 10%
123RF - 4%
BS - 2%
VM - 1%
StockXpert/TS - 3%
SF - 0%

microstockphoto.co.uk

« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2011, 02:56 »
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SS better and better
FT stable (after months going down)
DT slightly up
123 up
PD great (for a new site)
IS still going down (back at Aug 08 levels - note that I started in May 08)
all other sites stable

Overall, a good month

I added Photokore and Superhug - still too soon to comment
I will add iRockStock as soon as they offer FTP
« Last Edit: December 01, 2011, 03:19 by microstockphoto.co.uk »

« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2011, 03:09 »
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BMY for regular + OD sales at SS (I overlook ELs since they can be so sporadic).  It's actually looking like my yearly earnings will be on par with my earnings two years ago.  Last year they dropped about 10%.

53% drop at IS on regular sales from October to November; - 76% from my year high in January.  Unreal.  I had two ELs that saved the month from being a total disaster.  Together they earned more than all the regular sales.  In six years, I've never had a drop so severe.  The few sales I've had over the past few days won't change these percentages much and the total is likely to equal what I normally earn on their PP sales.  Looks like my yearly earnings will be down about 35% from my best year (and that includes all ELs and PPs).  Really depressing.

Worst month of the year at FT.  27% drop from my yearly average.

Can't report on DT until my stats from November are finally updated.  Dunno why they are sitting in December...hopefully that glitch works itself out.

BMY for both BigStock and 123RF.

Mostphotos is picking up, too.  My portfolios on other sites are too small to comment on.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2011, 03:11 by Karimala »

RacePhoto

« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2011, 03:28 »
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Oh no, everything is zero. "Danger like dagger now. Come quick!" Yours, Marie Cleste.

Oh wait, it's December!

I can't tell what IS is because the pp won't post until (maybe) the 15th of next month, and drag out for a few days. How does everyone else know that. Psychic or crystal ball? StockXpert won't appear until the 15th. So I can't even take the MSG poll until then, if I'm honest?

I had BME on Mostphotos. Someone who I have as a referral made 7c last month. WOW! BME! BEE EM EE, yippee.

Something about all the cheer leading and stats is beginning to bother me.

SS most sales ever, but not BME because no ED this month.

« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2011, 04:06 »
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Oh no, everything is zero. "Danger like dagger now. Come quick!" Yours, Marie Cleste.

Oh wait, it's December!

I can't tell what IS is because the pp won't post until (maybe) the 15th of next month, and drag out for a few days. How does everyone else know that. Psychic or crystal ball? StockXpert won't appear until the 15th. So I can't even take the MSG poll until then, if I'm honest?

I had BME on Mostphotos. Someone who I have as a referral made 7c last month. WOW! BME! BEE EM EE, yippee.

Something about all the cheer leading and stats is beginning to bother me.

SS most sales ever, but not BME because no ED this month.

Well, those stats are all a month delayed so for my Nov StockXpert sales were technically sold in October, for example.

« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2011, 04:15 »
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A bit difficult to provide accurate data because of the broken IS site but this looks more or less correct:
IS exclusive at 30%
Over 3,000 photos
On par with last month ~1,800$
2 EL's

Unless December is a total disaster, we should reach 35% in the following 2-3 weeks which would be a most welcome boost.

RacePhoto

« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2011, 04:20 »
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Oh no, everything is zero. "Danger like dagger now. Come quick!" Yours, Marie Cleste.

Oh wait, it's December!

I can't tell what IS is because the pp won't post until (maybe) the 15th of next month, and drag out for a few days. How does everyone else know that. Psychic or crystal ball? StockXpert won't appear until the 15th. So I can't even take the MSG poll until then, if I'm honest?

I had BME on Mostphotos. Someone who I have as a referral made 7c last month. WOW! BME! BEE EM EE, yippee.

Something about all the cheer leading and stats is beginning to bother me.

SS most sales ever, but not BME because no ED this month.


Well, those stats are all a month delayed so for my Nov StockXpert sales were technically sold in October, for example.




So half my sales on IS are last month and half are this month. But last month is really this month. And on StockXpert all of last month is next month?

Yes, honestly, reported isn't the same as sold. BigStock waits, but at least tells us what's on hold.

It's still too darn confusing with delayed reporting and delayed earnings. I mean, there are people who will get a commission on 2011 sales in 2012, based on some magic (changing and mysterious) RC value that will adjust your RR%. Is that January?

On Alamy do I count what I got paid via PayPal, or what I will get paid when I reach $135? Or cleared vs uncleared if I'm reporting, when I'm counting sales, but some are unpaid?
« Last Edit: December 01, 2011, 04:36 by RacePhoto »

wut

« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2011, 05:20 »
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BME at SS (by over 15%), FT and DT (by a few $, so it barely counts). Not sure about IS, but it surely is slightly up from Oct, so it's a decent month (I'll have to wait for PP earnings to be sure). 123RF was a disaster, I didn't even make half of what I did in Oct, so this spoils the big picture a bit. If it weren't for the drop there it would be an incredible month for me (it is my 3rd best earner). I'm not sure wether it's my BME, but it's in the neighbourhood of it at least.

I don't even bother calculating percentages for CS, DP and BS. DP is way up percentage wise, but that really doesn't mean anything earnings wise.

« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2011, 05:29 »
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1. IS - keeps falling. Depending on the partner earnings, this might be the first month when IS will be left behind SS, it all depends on the partner earnings. (SS beat IS in my first month in 2006, when I got the "new conributor boost", but I left that out of consideration)

2. SS - A Good month. BME for subscriptions. Total figure not quite BME because I didn't sell enough ELs.

3. DT - Best month of the year. Last time I earned this much was june 2009. I'm glad that DT seems to be climbing up.

4. Veer - Veer was my fourth best microstock earner, left FT behind for the first time.

5. FT - Ridiculous! I earned only about 30% of my BME (september 2010).

6. The rest. Good earners: Photodune, 123rf, Zoonar, Photocase.

A very good month at Alamy, a few nice ones (hundreds of dollars) sales.

I'm really happy that greedy crappy sites gets punished and the more fairer and nicer ones rise up.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2011, 05:32 by Perry »

steheap

  • Author of best selling "Get Started in Stock"

« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2011, 10:57 »
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This month was OK - not the best, but maintaining a nice steady pattern of being the fourth month over $1000. Istock for me continues to be pretty good. It was low over Thanksgiving, and the past couple of days have been a bit of a mystery, but since Photo+ was established, I've doubled my iStock earnings and kept steady at around $200 a month. I've continued to add files (with their 20 a week limit), but I'm sure Photo+ made most of the difference in earnings. More details as usual on my blog, but here are the graphs:
 
 
 . This last graph shows the number of files online on each site.

Steve
« Last Edit: December 01, 2011, 10:59 by steheap »

rubyroo

« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2011, 12:08 »
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All agencies were up on last month except for iStock , Fotolia and (sadly) 123RF.  I even sold a few on some small agencies that never usually sell for me.

The indisputable star of the month was Shutterstock, which constituted  42.24% of my overall earnings (up from 30% last month).

IStock crashed again after picking up a bit last month, and constituted only 10.12% of my overall earnings.

A BME for me, even without much weight from iStock and almost nothing from FT.  Once again I must thank Shutterstock for keeping me afloat.

SNP

  • Canadian Photographer
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2011, 12:24 »
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IS exclusive
Income and downloads were my BME by quite a bit, even without last week's reported dls. Not including ELs.

$ - 22.5% above previous BME
DLs - 20.5% above previous BME
« Last Edit: December 01, 2011, 12:29 by SNP »

wut

« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2011, 12:41 »
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IS exclusive
Income and downloads were my BME by quite a bit, even without last week's reported dls. Not including ELs.

$ - 22.5% above previous BME
DLs - 20.5% above previous BME

Nice to read some good news about IS. Over at IS forums, the vast majority of the contributors, especially diamonds like yourself, reported bad months, many of them WMY or even worst months in years. And November is supposed to be one of the best months. It usually is my BMY.

Now I find it easier to understand why u're such an IS cheerleader. Everything seems to be rosy for you and taking into account it's been really bad for most IS contributors, that's a great achievement.

« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2011, 13:01 »
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« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2011, 13:01 »
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I had a BME by 2,4%, my last BME dated from November 2010, so I'm pretty happy today.
Istock made me less than 50% of November 2010, and this loss was covered by SS, DT and FT.
SS had a BME in downloads, not in sales because of lack of EL's (September 3x as many EL's).
FT, DS, 123rf, GLO and Canstock all had BME's - yes it was an incredible month!
Rodeo, Cutcaster were disappointing.  Alamy did well, but YTD Alamy is down a lot.
Am I the only one who's doing well at Fotolia ???

« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2011, 13:18 »
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Overall, best month ever for me despite iStock being half what it was last November. BME at SS, 123RF (by a mile) and BigStock.

SNP

  • Canadian Photographer
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2011, 13:26 »
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@wut: I'm a regular poster here and there aren't a lot of istock exclusives that regularly post on msg. Because of that I try to include meaningful posts like monthly stats. I'm not any sort of cheerleader for anything. I say what I see, regardless of where it falls in the popular opinion. Over here that often finds me in the minority. If you had any sort of analytical skills, you might have acknowledged that I'm frequently critical of istock too. And you might also want to work on counting. Since you used diamonds as your baseline - about half the reporting diamonds in the istock thread report solid months.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2011, 13:27 by SNP »

wut

« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2011, 13:51 »
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@wut: I'm a regular poster here and there aren't a lot of istock exclusives that regularly post on msg. Because of that I try to include meaningful posts like monthly stats. I'm not any sort of cheerleader for anything. I say what I see, regardless of where it falls in the popular opinion. Over here that often finds me in the minority. If you had any sort of analytical skills, you might have acknowledged that I'm frequently critical of istock too. And you might also want to work on counting. Since you used diamonds as your baseline - about half the reporting diamonds in the istock thread report solid months.

I counted diamond reports, out of the first 125 posts 32 reported a bad month (SJlocke included), while only 7 reported good months, but usually saying solid, not BME or BMY, unlike many reported WMY or WME. That shows just how objective you are. ;) That being said, yes, you are critical, but usually you're just stating the obvious, reporting something and mildly expressing disappointment, while you're usually passionately defending IS or at least put a lot more energy into, what you see as, positive things about IS. Sure there are lots of ppl being overly pessimistic and negative over here, but given the current situation that's more understandable, than being a cheerleader, at least if you look at the big picture, not just your own sales.

Just try to be a bit more realistic and it doesn't matter if you consider you IS marriage as death do us part ;)

« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2011, 13:53 »
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overall it was a good month but behind my BME last month (mostly because of Alamy last month)

SS BME with less ELs than last month. I finally passed my total DL # from Oct 2008 there (with more than 2x the number of images).

DT quite good, also Veer, CanStockPhoto, 123RF were good. IS was even more pathetic than last month (at least I think so, it is a little hard to tell what is going on there) (I did remove much of my IS post by the PP deadline though).

Considering I didn't upload much last month it was quite good with SS being the star and DT doing well.


« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2011, 14:22 »
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IS exclusive here as well. And no cheerleader or sth.

I had a good month on IS. Both $ and DL increased significantly, without counting the EL. Portfolio growth was around %5, $ increased around %25 (thanks to hitting the RC target) and DL increased around 8%. I think if you can upload at least with a certain pattern you can have increase.

Apart from these, what is happening at the site nowadays is stunning. I am as disgusted as most of the contributors, maybe even more disgusted than independents. All my eggs are here. Last days gave me some stress.

I hope everybody had a good month.

SNP

  • Canadian Photographer
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2011, 14:22 »
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@pancaketom: i'm not claiming objectivity. I don't think anyone invested could. We are discussing November sales. Not the big picture. Concerning big picture, I've regularly criticized istock for making company benefitting decisions at the expense of contributors. What makes you think I don't have my finger at the ready over the crown eject button? You're reading what you want to as much as anyone else is. I don't think your comments are fair or accurate. I don't passionately defend istock. I do sometimes defend individuals who are being personally attacked by sophomoric twits. There are real people at work, good people. And fwiw I can't scroll easily only iPhone. I'm currently sitting in a cessna 4000 ft above Georgian bay. I wasn't intentionally inflating monthly reports. I was simply stating that there are some diamonds doing well and there are reasons why some contributors don't appear to be doing well. I don't know why
Contributors compare this year to x year. Those numbers only matter if ports are growing at the same rate as the collection. Obviously not possible for any of us

« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2011, 14:35 »
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@pancaketom: i'm not claiming objectivity. I don't think anyone invested could. We are discussing November sales. Not the big picture. Concerning big picture, I've regularly criticized istock for making company benefitting decisions at the expense of contributors. What makes you think I don't have my finger at the ready over the crown eject button? You're reading what you want to as much as anyone else is. I don't think your comments are fair or accurate. I don't passionately defend istock. I do sometimes defend individuals who are being personally attacked by sophomoric twits. There are real people at work, good people. And fwiw I can't scroll easily only iPhone. I'm currently sitting in a cessna 4000 ft above Georgian bay. I wasn't intentionally inflating monthly reports. I was simply stating that there are some diamonds doing well and there are reasons why some contributors don't appear to be doing well. I don't know why
Contributors compare this year to x year. Those numbers only matter if ports are growing at the same rate as the collection. Obviously not possible for any of us

Um, I don't think I directed anything at you personally (or in any other fashion really). From time to time I make comments to myself when I read your posts - especially when you tout the superiority of IS search, but you seem to continue to do well there so why shouldn't you mention what you like about them. Despite the fact that I often disagree with you I think you get more than your share of ad hominem atttacks which I think is unfortunate and uncalled for.

In any case I think you are confusing me with someone else but if it was something I said you felt was directed at you I do apologize, that was not at all my intent I was merely stating that IS did VERY poorly for me this last month, but that isn't a big surprise, I deactivated about 95% of my portfolio rather than accept the new TOS for those images.

« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2011, 15:02 »
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IS Vector Exclusive

When the missing days sales are added in it will probably be the BMY and be close to my BME. The foundation appears to be cracking and sales are up. I don't know what to think but I'm happy sales are up!


lisafx

« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2011, 15:16 »
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Not a great month for me, and for a November, things were unprecedentedly awful.    Overall I am down 3% from a lackluster October, and down a worrying 10% from last November.  The only bright spots were a spectacular BME at Shutterstock, and a very robust month at Alamy.  Portfolio growth over the year was around 700 images.  

Here's the breakdown, along with the % gained or lost over last year in parentheses

ISP   23% (-38%)
SS   32% (+64%)
DT   13% (-20%)
Fot   16% (-31%)
BigStock   5%
123   3%
CanStockPhoto   2%
Pd   2%
Dp   2%
Alm   5%

ETA:  This is officially the first month EVER (almost 7 years) that Istock has dropped out of my #1 spot.  And they dropped like an anvil.  Shutterstock is officially my #1, and by a wide margin. 

Glad to see someone's still having good sales at IS.  Congrats Stacey!  Couldn't happen to a harder working person :)
« Last Edit: December 01, 2011, 15:25 by lisafx »

SNP

  • Canadian Photographer
« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2011, 15:24 »
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@pancake: your comments seemed pretty personal. But anyways, I hear what you're saying.
Lisa, you're one of the contributors feel like I know well and by all rights you shouldn't be down the way you are, not that anyone 'deserves' poor sales. It's just tough to see your sales so low

lisafx

« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2011, 15:27 »
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@pancake: your comments seemed pretty personal. But anyways, I hear what you're saying.
Lisa, you're one of the contributors feel like I know well and by all rights you shouldn't be down the way you are, not that anyone 'deserves' poor sales. It's just tough to see your sales so low

LOL!  As I was typing my congrats to you, apparently you were typing commiserations to me :)

Thanks for the kind words.  I think the search is just too heavily weighted against non-exclusives.  I don't take it personally.  Might help if I get back to work too, though...

SNP

  • Canadian Photographer
« Reply #30 on: December 01, 2011, 15:36 »
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I know you don't take it personally, i think the search does hit indies really hard. My increase this month is really the work of some new big sellers. Unlikely files I wouldn't have expected to take off. It certainly wasn't anything portfolio wide in my case though me sales were steadily good even without the high performing new files
« Last Edit: December 01, 2011, 15:37 by SNP »

« Reply #31 on: December 01, 2011, 17:31 »
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I am an istock photo exclusive. Best month of the year, but November always is.

I am significantly down compared to a year ago, but this is due to ongoing "real life" issues since 2009 and simply not uploading. I have also been holding back with uploading becuase I was hoping there would be better integration with getty, i.e. that the exclusives would be allowed to put the files that getty rejects on istock. unfortunately that didnt happen.

Once the site is working again, i will try to focus on uploading as much as I can. I take pictures while shooting video, so there should always be a more steady stream of images going live.

BME for video! I sold my first ever file on istock.  :) Nothing from the other sites yet, but it has only been 10 days.

« Reply #32 on: December 02, 2011, 05:49 »
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I'm an iStock exclusive photographer. Here are my numbers.

This November 2011 compared to

November 2010:

$ -25%
DL -44%

November 2009:

$ +1%
DL -59%

November 2008:

$ -5%
DL -73%

I haven't kept track of my portfolio size over that time but it's probably fair to say it increases by a couple of thousand images a year at least.

In the New Year I'm going to start the long and laborious process of keywording my images in the exif data in preparation for when iStock is no longer sustainable for me. What a shame.

« Reply #33 on: December 02, 2011, 06:41 »
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Just for a bit of context here - I keep a record of total istock downloads as reported on the multimedia.de site, and based on that overall downloads in November for all contributors listed were up 44% compared to October 2011, and down 19% compared to November 2010.

Of course, those figures are pretty fuzzy because they're taken from individual totals and those are only approximate, plus it may not include all contributors, but it's interesting.  I guess iStock hasn't quite fallen apart yet despite all the harbingers of doom.

« Reply #34 on: December 02, 2011, 07:07 »
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It wouldn't surprise me if iStock is booming as a business but individuals are seeing falls because of the increase in size of the library. Dilution might provide short term profits but in the long run it'll make full time stock shooting impossible.

The quality of the images will fall since no-one will be able to invest the time or money to create those professional photographs we see now.

This will be a problem for all the agencies in the long run; it may be that iStock - as has been the case from the start of this adventure - is leading the pack.

« Reply #35 on: December 02, 2011, 07:19 »
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Istock Exclusive for photos, non-exclusive footage.

Photo: With one day of stats still to be added for November, & without seeing PP or GI sales, it looks like the month is a BME in terms of total $$ and very close if not a BME for DLS.
EDIT: $$ up 9% on October, DLS down 3% - seeing as I moved from 30 to 35% part way through Oct, the numbers are mainly reflecting that change.

Video: First sale on Pond 5, nothing on SS and still waiting for inspections on IS... still early days on this front!
« Last Edit: December 03, 2011, 07:31 by holgs »

« Reply #36 on: December 02, 2011, 10:23 »
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only a few uploads this Nov, one the months I have done less since start (I have mainly been uploading hard to some agencies in November and December will finish, I am talking about Superhug, Zoonar, iSignstock, Photokore, Alamy)

I will have the 4th month in a row over 1k $, IS down!

1003$, 1062$, 1017$ and around 1000$ for November

this month top 5 % (previous month):

- SS 42% (47%)
- IS 10% (14%)
- 123RF 10% (11%)
- FT 8% (7%)
- DT 6% (4%)

24% across other agencies (more relevant below):
- Zazzle (5%)
- CanStockPhoto (3%)
- DepositPhotos (3%)
- PhotoDune (2%)
- Alamy (2%)
- Veer (2%)
- iSignstock (2%)
« Last Edit: December 02, 2011, 10:35 by luissantos84 »


lagereek

« Reply #37 on: December 02, 2011, 10:49 »
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only a few uploads this Nov, one the months I have done less since start (I have mainly been uploading hard to some agencies in November and December will finish, I am talking about Superhug, Zoonar, iSignstock, Photokore, Alamy)

I will have the 4th month in a row over 1k $, IS down!

1003$, 1062$, 1017$ and around 1000$ for November

this month top 5 % (previous month):

- SS 42% (47%)
- IS 10% (14%)
- 123RF 10% (11%)


- FT 8% (7%)
- DT 6% (4%)

24% across other agencies (more relevant below):
- Zazzle (5%)
- CanStockPhoto (3%)
- DepositPhotos (3%)
- PhotoDune (2%)
- Alamy (2%)
- Veer (2%)
- iSignstock (2%)


So what are your stats based upon Luis?  a port of 400 shots?

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #38 on: December 02, 2011, 11:01 »
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This will be a problem for all the agencies in the long run; it may be that iStock - as has been the case from the start of this adventure - is leading the pack.
So effectively you're saying that the micro model is, indeed, "unsustainable"?

« Reply #39 on: December 02, 2011, 11:21 »
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So what are your stats based upon Luis?  a port of 400 shots?

I know where you are heading but I am sure you can see what and how many pics I have on stock agencies

my stats are my stats just like you said, I am quite happy with them considering the work I have done during the last two years and the subjects I can approach without spending money, I really don't need to justify anything, I do like to talk but I know your talk for a long time, keep collecting your big bucks and I will continue my thing

wut

« Reply #40 on: December 02, 2011, 11:36 »
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only a few uploads this Nov, one the months I have done less since start (I have mainly been uploading hard to some agencies in November and December will finish, I am talking about Superhug, Zoonar, iSignstock, Photokore, Alamy)

I will have the 4th month in a row over 1k $, IS down!

1003$, 1062$, 1017$ and around 1000$ for November

this month top 5 % (previous month):

- SS 42% (47%)
- IS 10% (14%)
- 123RF 10% (11%)


- FT 8% (7%)
- DT 6% (4%)

24% across other agencies (more relevant below):
- Zazzle (5%)
- CanStockPhoto (3%)
- DepositPhotos (3%)
- PhotoDune (2%)
- Alamy (2%)
- Veer (2%)
- iSignstock (2%)


So what are your stats based upon Luis?  a port of 400 shots?

It would be a great result if it's actually based on 400 images. But very bad if it would be on 4k

« Reply #41 on: December 02, 2011, 11:47 »
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It would be a great result if it's actually based on 400 images. But very bad if it would be on 4k

is this Nov topic about me? I am not that good, actually I am pretty bad, don't waste your time guys, keep on collecting and just leave the pennies for me :D

« Reply #42 on: December 02, 2011, 12:29 »
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Just for a bit of context here - I keep a record of total istock downloads as reported on the multimedia.de site, and based on that overall downloads in November for all contributors listed were up 44% compared to October 2011, and down 19% compared to November 2010.

Of course, those figures are pretty fuzzy because they're taken from individual totals and those are only approximate, plus it may not include all contributors, but it's interesting.  I guess iStock hasn't quite fallen apart yet despite all the harbingers of doom.

That's interesting. I notice that the comparison with Nov 2010 is similar to the numbers SJL reported on the IS forum thread. Sean's portfolio and sales are probably large enough to be a fairly accurate barometer of the agency itself. Although there are always going to be some people who buck the trend, by virtue of an increase in portfolio size or quality, I don't think there's much doubt that overall sales at Istock are slipping. The only real questions are by how much and how long will the trend continue.

« Reply #43 on: December 02, 2011, 12:57 »
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As I'm in transition (as it were), I can't make some of the comparisons I'd like to, but here's some facts I've pulled out of my re-done earnings spreadsheet (the old one was beginning to look like one of those houses that's been added on to too many times and is in danger of falling over)

November 2011 wasn't as good as Nov 2010 - 40% drop in income. Up 26% from October, so things are (in general if you don't count iStock) moving in the right direction.

The good news  (such as it is) is that my iStock downloads dropped 60% from Nov 2010 levels, so something made up the difference, primarily Shutterstock. Except for some nasty months at the end of 2008 (a best match shift that made my life miserable for a few months) I have to go back to December 2007 to find a download number as low as Nov 2011 at iStock.

SS was my #1 earner for Nov 2011, beating iStock by 20%. IS was 33% of the month total and SS 40%. SS was up 60% over October 2011 where IS was down 5%.

123rf and DT both did well, at 12% and 6.5% of the total. Veer had an extended license sale which was great, but the temporary boost in their contribution to earnings is probably just that.

For me, looking at the reports of golds and diamonds in the iStock stats threads with drops over Nov 2010 of 15% to 50% in income, I suspect I'd have had a big drop in income, possibly around the 40% I had as an independent, but this way I'm in the process of building up my income elsewhere, versus just hoping something good happens to turn IS around.

So all in all I'm content - not happy, but cautiously optimistic that if IS does really hit the skids, I'm reasonably buffered from the worst effects.

rubyroo

« Reply #44 on: December 02, 2011, 13:17 »
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I'm very pleased to hear that things seem to be working out for you jsnover.  :)

« Reply #45 on: December 02, 2011, 13:48 »
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This will be a problem for all the agencies in the long run; it may be that iStock - as has been the case from the start of this adventure - is leading the pack.
So effectively you're saying that the micro model is, indeed, "unsustainable"?

It's the logical outcome for this business model as it works at the moment. Increasing image supply inevitably leads to lower returns for contributors till it reaches at point that it's not economically viable to shoot anything specifically for microstock that costs more than cents to produce since the likely return per image will be so small.

As we know, the trad agencies started as collections of unused assignment shots and developed into stock shot for that purpose but they managed to kept the returns artificially buoyant by limiting photographer access and grossly inflating the value of even mediocre images.

Perhaps they'll have to return to that kind of model in the very long term in order to stay supplied with professional quality images. The days of mega-high prices for stock are gone and microstock has shown there's no real secret to being a good photographer: you just need a modicum of seeing ability, post-processing competence and to work hard - most of us are proof of that!

« Reply #46 on: December 03, 2011, 13:18 »
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BTW, I'm an exclusive Istockphoto contributor and I'm considering going independent again.

However, I need an answer from all of you here who are independent.

How much do you get per picture per month on average across all your websites?

On Istockphoto, I had around 470 images in October and November that made:

$3.24 an image in October
$2.66 an image in November

If going independent for me will drastically lower this figure, it would make stock photography unsustainable for me.


« Reply #47 on: December 03, 2011, 23:37 »
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My four best agencies for November are: Shutterstock, Zazzle, DepositPhotos, Dreamstime
You can find my full statistic at http://microstockinfos.blogspot.com/2011/12/stock-photography-sales-statistic.html






« Reply #48 on: December 04, 2011, 01:52 »
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BTW, I'm an exclusive Istockphoto contributor and I'm considering going independent again.

However, I need an answer from all of you here who are independent.

How much do you get per picture per month on average across all your websites?

On Istockphoto, I had around 470 images in October and November that made:

$3.24 an image in October
$2.66 an image in November

If going independent for me will drastically lower this figure, it would make stock photography unsustainable for me.

Nobody can answer that question for you, especially without seeing the images. RPI is very portfolio dependant and the range is anywhere from nothing to tens of dollars per month, in some cases maybe more. Some portfolios will work better at higher price-points than others, some won't sell as much when you bump up prices, but sell in massive volumes if offered as subscriptions. Its not a case of one size fits all.

« Reply #49 on: December 04, 2011, 05:38 »
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How much do you get per picture per month on average across all your websites?
If going independent for me will drastically lower this figure, it would make stock photography unsustainable for me.

As Holgs said, it's not that simple. On IS last month my average sale was $1.73 and on SS it was $0.62. However I sold 4.5x more images on SS so I made a lot more money there.

Much more important is for you to assess where IS might be in another year, two years or five years from now. Can they turn it around or have they blown it? Even if they do turn it around will they just screw commissions down even further, raising those RC targets ever further out of reach? Has SS developed the optimum microstock formula and will they continue to grow and take customers from others?

lagereek

« Reply #50 on: December 04, 2011, 06:15 »
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Seems to me, theyre palying some sort of a game?  the IS, search throws independat files way, way back, yet, slightly similar files I have in the RM, etc, have really premiere positions.
Now if IS, arent aware of that, well, I recon theyre getting fooled or something.
However thats me, dont know about anybody else?

« Reply #51 on: December 04, 2011, 10:26 »
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Nov 3% lover than October which was BME  (IS and SS slightly down, most of others up)
      50% up from Nov'10 (~1000 pictures added)

SS 34%  (23% a year ago)   
IS  28%  (44% a  year ago)
DT 12%
FT   5%
123 4%
PD,DP,VEER 3%

In November I've completed my 4th year in microstock.

« Reply #52 on: December 05, 2011, 01:22 »
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After my first month as independent photographer:

SS --------- 51%
DT --------- 44%
123RF ----- 4%
FT---------- 2%
CanStock -- 0%

antistock

« Reply #53 on: December 05, 2011, 04:23 »
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i can't see how the rise of SS and the fall of IS are good news.

this trend is only showing that buyers are more and more into finding the cheapest price and the cheapest deals.

if the real inflation rate in the western countries is 5-10% how this model can remain sustainable if prices keep going down and your files are getting diluted (and devalued !) in the millions of new photos uploaded each months ?

even feeding the beast, the point of non-return will soon be reached.

either prices go way up or producing stock will cost more than what it earns in all agencies combined.

 

« Reply #54 on: December 05, 2011, 05:31 »
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i can't see how the rise of SS and the fall of IS are good news.

this trend is only showing that buyers are more and more into finding the cheapest price and the cheapest deals.

if the real inflation rate in the western countries is 5-10% how this model can remain sustainable if prices keep going down and your files are getting diluted (and devalued !) in the millions of new photos uploaded each months ?

even feeding the beast, the point of non-return will soon be reached.

either prices go way up or producing stock will cost more than what it earns in all agencies combined.

 

I believe the future of microstock is quality; Yes today many people contribute, but very soon we will start to see massive rejection from all agencies and the reason will be quality or concept ...
« Last Edit: December 05, 2011, 05:33 by nicku »

« Reply #55 on: December 05, 2011, 10:26 »
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i can't see how the rise of SS and the fall of IS are good news.

this trend is only showing that buyers are more and more into finding the cheapest price and the cheapest deals.

...

But experience at SS isn't showing that at all. I made more at SS in November than I had before I went exclusive at iStock - higher RPD and higher total - because their prices are higher than they were. It's the on demand and single sales that are bring the numbers up. It is the other sites that have hiked prices more - perhaps too high and in ways that buyers find irritatingly confusing - that has helped funnel business to SS.

In the current economy, it doesn't surprise me that buyers are looking for value.

antistock

« Reply #56 on: December 06, 2011, 03:02 »
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i can't see how the rise of SS and the fall of IS are good news.

this trend is only showing that buyers are more and more into finding the cheapest price and the cheapest deals.

...

But experience at SS isn't showing that at all. I made more at SS in November than I had before I went exclusive at iStock - higher RPD and higher total - because their prices are higher than they were. It's the on demand and single sales that are bring the numbers up. It is the other sites that have hiked prices more - perhaps too high and in ways that buyers find irritatingly confusing - that has helped funnel business to SS.

In the current economy, it doesn't surprise me that buyers are looking for value.

yes, for the moment it's still a profitable biz but how long it's gonna last ?

RF killed RM, and microstock and oversupply are killing RF as well ... i could be wrong of course but what's gonna happen when SS has 30-40 million images in store ?

i can tell you, they will make more money than ever while we photographers will struggle to even recoup the production costs.

do you think they care about us ? NO.

and rightfully so, we've no brand, we're not famous, we've no added value, we're all worth the other, most of us don't even use a real name/surname but just a nick name...


antistock

« Reply #57 on: December 06, 2011, 03:06 »
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I believe the future of microstock is quality; Yes today many people contribute, but very soon we will start to see massive rejection from all agencies and the reason will be quality or concept ...

in my opinion quality in microstock is way more than enough at the moment considering the pittance clients are paying.

suffice to say even Yuri Arcurs gets rejections and is lamenting a fall in sales despite having a huge expensive studio with paid models and top-notch gear.

if he can't stay in biz, who will ?

« Reply #58 on: December 06, 2011, 05:26 »
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i can't see how the rise of SS and the fall of IS are good news.

 

Considering the paranoic rejections from IS i believe is a very good news.... at least in my personal case.

RacePhoto

« Reply #59 on: December 06, 2011, 13:40 »
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Yes I had earnings in November.



Closed StockXpert/ThinkStock Soon there will be only two that count, as BigStock is a SS Sister site only.

Still having fun.

« Reply #60 on: December 06, 2011, 15:22 »
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It wouldn't surprise me if iStock is booming as a business but individuals are seeing falls because of the increase in size of the library. Dilution might provide short term profits but in the long run it'll make full time stock shooting impossible.

The quality of the images will fall since no-one will be able to invest the time or money to create those professional photographs we see now.

This will be a problem for all the agencies in the long run; it may be that iStock - as has been the case from the start of this adventure - is leading the pack.

This is an interesting thought; however, if dilution was the only factor, Shutterstock would lead the pack in terms of decreased earnings since they have no ulpload limits, no exclusivity, very easy submission process, and their library is still growing very fast. What everyone sees though is the opposite: a big increase in earnings on SS. Istock may be booming as a business because of their extra-low payouts, extra-low sub and pp sales and other nasty practices like that.

« Reply #61 on: December 06, 2011, 17:31 »
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... if dilution was the only factor, Shutterstock would lead the pack in terms of decreased earnings since they have no ulpload limits, no exclusivity, very easy submission process, and their library is still growing very fast...
Excellent point! There may be no such thing as 'dilution' in reality. What seems to really be happening is that buyers are shopping at the stores with the largest selection and most reasonable prices, and it means more sales to the suppliers who sell there. Why should this be so unbelievable?

On topic: my November sales were close to BME at both SS and DT, and I did have a BME at 123RF. I was pleasantly surprised at how strong Nov was considering that I have been submitting less in the last few months.

« Reply #62 on: December 06, 2011, 17:45 »
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There may be no such thing as 'dilution' in reality. What seems to really be happening is that buyers are shopping at the stores with the largest selection and most reasonable prices, and it means more sales to the suppliers who sell there. Why should this be so unbelievable?

Of course dilution is a factor and it is inevitable that it will become more significant as time goes on. The effect of dilution at SS is simply being disguised slightly by their success in growing their share of what is probably a fairly stagnant market.

antistock

« Reply #63 on: December 06, 2011, 23:41 »
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... if dilution was the only factor, Shutterstock would lead the pack in terms of decreased earnings since they have no ulpload limits, no exclusivity, very easy submission process, and their library is still growing very fast...
Excellent point! There may be no such thing as 'dilution' in reality. What seems to really be happening is that buyers are shopping at the stores with the largest selection and most reasonable prices, and it means more sales to the suppliers who sell there. Why should this be so unbelievable?

On topic: my November sales were close to BME at both SS and DT, and I did have a BME at 123RF. I was pleasantly surprised at how strong Nov was considering that I have been submitting less in the last few months.

or maybe buyers are simply joining SS in droves ?
in that case, wait a few months for the situation to stabilize.

another option is more and more RM buyers are moving to SS as well.

and finally that more and more new publishers who never before used stock images are now picking up something on SS to save money and cutting costs.

everything is possible but i remain skeptic about the long-term.

antistock

« Reply #64 on: December 06, 2011, 23:44 »
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The effect of dilution at SS is simply being disguised slightly by their success in growing their share of what is probably a fairly stagnant market.

on top of this add the booming of piracy and free or CC-licenced images.

lagereek

« Reply #65 on: December 07, 2011, 03:11 »
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No, its not a stagnant market at all!  the buyers are there and more are coming. The problem is:  only a handfull of agencies know how to handle it, how to entice the market, the buyers.
How many times havent we seen agencies do search-changes and for the worse, screwing up this and that and in the end they simply cant recover,  some of them are getting bad reputations, etc, internal and external politics problems, price increases, etc. Search-engines with so much irrelevant garbage that buyers fall asleep.

In our line of business, where we appoint agents to sell our products,  it is always the agencies Admins, their policies, know-how, good-will, their treatment of buyers/contributors, that finally will determine an agencies, failure or success.

« Reply #66 on: December 07, 2011, 13:23 »
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...and finally that more and more new publishers who never before used stock images are now picking up something on SS to save money and cutting costs.

everything is possible but i remain skeptic about the long-term.
Yes, I also think that new publishers are still coming to microstock, and I think that will continue because microstock is making new kinds of publishing possible. Suppose that somebody has an idea for a new kind of, say, greeting card company but has little capital. A source of cheap images might make that business possible, when it would have have been impossible otherwise. Then if that business succeeds, others copy it. Microstock actually causes its market to increase qualitatively, i.e. by its very existence it creates new kinds of customers for its services.

Microstock is not a zero-sum game. The growth of the pie makes the size of the pie grow more.

I emphatically agree with Lagercreek, "No, its not a stagnant market at all!  the buyers are there and more are coming."

Antistock, it is never too late to become an optimist! :D


antistock

« Reply #67 on: December 07, 2011, 21:43 »
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Antistock, it is never too late to become an optimist! :D

no problem, i'm open to any possible scenario actually.

but if price becomes really the only factor involved, well before or later clients will switch to Flickr or any other photo-sharing site .. it's 5-6 billions of images, mostly free or somewhat free, the only issue is to find what you need as they're not properly keyworded but if you have time it can be rewarding and there are excellent images you will never find in RF and RM agencies.

« Reply #68 on: December 08, 2011, 10:06 »
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...the only issue is to find what you need as they're not properly keyworded but if you have time it can be rewarding and there are excellent images you will never find in RF and RM agencies.

That is a big issue actually. Yes there are people who would go though thousands of images to find what they need for cheap or free, but people who do this for business don't have time for that. They need a good library with precise keywording and excellent search engine to find what they are looking for fast, and they don't mind paying for that convenience. Plus most free image sites are full of stuff that photographers shoot for their enjoyment, not commercially useful images.

Noodles

« Reply #69 on: December 08, 2011, 17:45 »
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I've hardly looked in to check on things these past few weeks given the complete shambles IS is in, but at least my figure aint too bad.

iStockphoto Exclusive

Compared to last month
Dollars up 23%
Downloads up 42%

Compared to Nov last year
Dollars up 10%
Downloads up 21%

And to put it into perspective. Small portfolio (100+) averaging $350/month

antistock

« Reply #70 on: December 09, 2011, 07:30 »
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...the only issue is to find what you need as they're not properly keyworded but if you have time it can be rewarding and there are excellent images you will never find in RF and RM agencies.

That is a big issue actually. Yes there are people who would go though thousands of images to find what they need for cheap or free, but people who do this for business don't have time for that. They need a good library with precise keywording and excellent search engine to find what they are looking for fast, and they don't mind paying for that convenience. Plus most free image sites are full of stuff that photographers shoot for their enjoyment, not commercially useful images.

exactly but precisely because they're non-edited collections you can often find a few gems in there, the only issue is about wasting maybe a couple hours browsing around but every time i try on Flickr and other photo-sharing sites i'm more and more surprised by the creativity and the freshness of some images posted there, it's no more like 10 yrs ago where people only posted images of their dog or their girlfriend, now there's plenty of skilled amateurs and hobbyist and some have talent, they're maybe just not interested in making money out of it, at least for now...


 

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