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Microstock Photography Forum - General => General Stock Discussion => Topic started by: Ron on November 01, 2013, 02:24
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Well, surprisingly, a good month overall, I passed $800 dollar combined.
Overall: BME in Dowloads by 1.1%, BME in Earnings by 10.7%, October 2013 is up 37.2% up from October 2012
BME in downloads:
Shutterstock, 123RF, CanStockPhoto and Graphic Leftovers (from 1 to 2 :) )
BME in earnings:
123RF, PhotoDune, Fine Art America
Alamy 0 sales
Symbiostock 1 sale at 17.5 Euro
Fotolia keeps tanking 40% down from BME
Shutterstock is 51% of my total earnings for 2013 to date, Fine Art America has 24%
Bring on November, I am positive, but I am not expecting another BME on Fine Art America, so it will be a bit down. As long as Shutterstock is going up, I am fine.
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Overall one word : disaster
The worst month of the year..... :( :-[
Much worse even compared with August.... disaster for an October witch supposed to be one of the best month of the year.
Everything started very encouraging on all agencies until 15th of the month. From than on sales/earnings dropped with about 200%( ON ALL AGENCIES EXCEPT FOTOLIA)
The single site that had constant sales was FT. For the rest.. SS ,DT ,123RF CAN,DP, the pattern was the same very good sales until 15th of Oct. and after that date sales dropped very hard.
Hope Nov. will make me happier.
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Overall I am 20% down in $$ from September (which was a really good month for me), but am up in $$ by 37% compared to last year. I guess I owe this all to Stocksy, as most Micro agencies performed below or at the level they did last year.
Stocksy: BME in $$, best earning agency after being there for only 4 months (39%)
SS: down from September, down from last October (30%)
FT: down from September, but up from last October (16%)
DT: been flat for a few months and slightly down compared to October 2013 (12%)
123rf: after having a BME in September I was having a bad month this month, made about half of what i made last October - with almost the same number of downloads as last October. Due to most of my sales being subs, I had my worst RPDY there and the worst RPI. Since my upload from October 2nd is still in pending, I think 123rf might not be worth my efforts anymore - oh and they bring in 3% of my October income
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Very bad first two weeks
Normal third week
Incredible fourth week (75% of the month's gains)
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Awful month for me. About 30% below my BME and the worst month I've had for many years. DT was patchy between credits and subs (as usual) but the sales volume was the best for the year, offset by a RPD of only 91c (my best months RPD of the last year was 1.45, so it's a huge difference). SS had a lot of very weak days and a handful of good to really good ones. IS sales were up a bit on last month, second largest volume of the year but - of course - countered by the huge cut in RPD. Alamy came back a little from a string of really weak months, but still down 50% on last year's average. The other's aren't really worth mentioning except that BS was especially horrid.
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Wow, I expected a downhill month, but this was MUCH worse than expected.
SS had a very bad start, but at then end I got a break even with October 2012 because the SOD's saved the month. Downloads were more than 10% down though.
Fotolia was a total disaster with 40% down compared to Oct.'12, Istock and DST both went down "only" 10%.
Rodeo almost stopped selling (86% down).
Alamy, 123rf and Canstock did quite well, but are too small to cover any losses.
Bottomline : -15%, plus another -5% because of the low dollar. So I am NOT HAPPY, especially since October usually is a BME for me.
Even if November does much better, it has 4 working days less ...
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I managed a BME which was nice to see, I wasn't sure if I was going to get another one of those for a while. Most sites were up a bit but Shutterstock jumped ahead more than the others. I've still got to focus more on getting a better sales platform for direct sales and build up a decent stocksy port.
... and don't forget to vote
www.microstockgroup.com/index.php?page=microstockmonthlysurvey (http://www.microstockgroup.com/index.php?page=microstockmonthlysurvey)
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October was the best month of the year, as I expected. It was just a little bit more than April.
Fotolia and DT performed unexpectedly good reminding the good old days.
Surprisingly no sale at Pond5.
Nothing special about the others..
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BME (+34%), but I've been uploading like crazy for the last two months, so nothing unexpected here.
After more than a year of not uploading to iStock, this month they accounted for only 0.9% of my earnings. That's funny. I don't understand the poll results, how is iStock still so high, did you guys just continue uploading there or what?
I'm thinking of uploading there again, as it seems that I'm missing out.
I've also refreshed my portfolios on P5 (86% of my total portfolio) and Alamy (11%), but haven't had any sales on either of those sites. Hope they pick up.
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I managed a BME which was nice to see
Nice to hear someone is doing fine, it gives hope for the whole industry.
My month has been a disaster, about -30% down from last years october. The year started nicely, but after summer things have been horrible... :(
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I managed a BME which was nice to see
Nice to hear someone is doing fine, it gives hope for the whole industry.
Make that two someones :)
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BME +31%.
Regular upload for about 300 files per month.
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I had a spectacular month on SS - and I do mean spectacular, 50% over my long time average and I'm there since 2006.
BS and DT were doing very well, if not spectacular.
IS produced two very good weeks at the beginning of the month, and completely imploded after that.
FT didn't produce anything, but then I quit three months ago ;D
A single sale at Alamy, but that at $315 - so to sum it up: I'd like more months like that, please :)
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Bme for me on ss by nearly double, also passed the 1000 pictures online mark 8)
Average month at dt
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iS: Worst October since 2007 (first year on iS), first two weeks were dismal (apart from one day), second half picked up a bit.
dls BMY by 1, $$ above only July and August. Worst RPD since Feb '12.
Compared to Sept: dls up 20% $$ down c8%
Compared to Oct 12: dls down 20%, $$ down 23%.
Still feel that I'm being affected badly at both ends by the automatically assigned Collections and would really welcome the chance to move at least a proportion (say 15%) of my Main files up (low supply, low demand; they don't sell more but when they do, it's at a much lower price) and S+ auto-assigned files down. >:(
Getty: 2 dls totalling $7.30 :'(
Alamy: 4 sales, but 1 <$5 net and 2 distributor sales, so $$ low; :(
FAA: 2 sales yesterday. + $5 referral fee. :)
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Best month so far in my new indie life :) But that is to be expected as the holiday season is coming in. I still only have around 500 files on the new sites and only 40 on stocksy, compared to 3500 on istock. So istock is still my biggest earner, especially now when my 1100 holiday images wake up.
In order of income my results are: istock,SS,Fotolia,stocksy,deposit photos and dreamstime.
I didnīt upload much this month, except for videos to Dreamstime that arenīt live yet.
I still have a long way to go until I reach my living wage, but I already know if the current trend continues I am confident that I will be making more money as an indie than as an exclusive. :)
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This was my BME combined.... but this is still my first year and I am still trying to figure it out. I am seeing slow steady growth in my low performing portfolio.
I had almost no uploads, I have been busy getting a show together and other stuff.
I had my first sale on Symbiostock..... :)
Numbers:
Images 620
SS $31
IS $6
sy $3
The rest $3
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Still early days as a photo and video independent, overall earnings are steady with IS topping list as I am still audio exclusive there. Oct 2013 breakdown goes like this:
IS - 52%
SS - 25%
FT - 7%
DT - 7%
123RF - 2%
DP - 2%
P5 - 2%
PD - 2%
GL - 1%
Nothing from Alamy in Oct which was a disappointment.
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Well, I guess I can't publish my clever earnings charts any longer due to the change in the T&C for Shutterstock...
I had a pretty good month - BME on Shutterstock and easily getting into four figures. Not sure how iStock will perform as I put the PP earnings in as an estimate and then correct when they come along later. Last month on iStock was great, reach $441 in total or which $330 were from PP sales. I thought this would be the BME, but the other sites didn't match Shutterstock's performance, and some, like Pond5 dropped almost to zero for some reason.
Last month I had two $90 profit sales on FAA - this month just $17 there.
End result, $2121 for October, compared to $2550 in September but nicely on track for my personal goal of $26K this year.
Steve
PS - nothing this last month from Symbio, but I'm moving it to a dedicated server and will put a lot more effort into getting my portfolio on there in the coming weeks.
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IS: BMY as exclusive, even though the stats for the last week of October are still missing. Earning was more than twice as much as I had made in September which was my WMY.
FAA: 3 sales, 3rd BMY
Alamay: 0
Overall a good month.
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Train wreck. Ship wreck is a better metaphor for me.
IS Royalties lowest since December 2010. Dls worst since May 2008 and lower than my third month after I joined in 2007.
I have been uploading steady, but I am not prolific. I got a few dls on new files.
Getty- Good royalty check but with the dls so few, it is unreliable and sporadic
Faa. I got a nice check but no new sales in October.
Online photo sales is my main income. Luckily I got a new job as an online image reviewer, because here in Space Coast Florida even Walmart and MacDonald's are not hiring.
I am getting my lifeboat ready to jump ship if needed.
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Shocked to see BME at SS and DT - but the rest of them, oye vey! Look at my percentages - man if DT and SS both have a bad month earnings will be nil!
SS 57%
DT 30%
FT 3%
BS 2%
DP 3%
CS 3%
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Let's see...
123RF - no sales ever
Pond 5 - Royalties up %400 due to a couple video sales, from $20 to $80
Deposit - Royalties up %50 from $100 to $150
GL - Royalties up from $16 to $20
Stocksy - Royalties up %200, DLs up 40%
Getting better, I guess :)
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Let's see...
123RF - no sales ever
Pond 5 - Royalties up %400 due to a couple video sales, from $20 to $80
Deposit - Royalties up %50 from $100 to $150
GL - Royalties up from $16 to $20
Stocksy - Royalties up %200, DLs up 40%
Getting better, I guess :)
Unbelievable stats for your HCV portfolio.... but you dont mention Stocksy $$, so it could well be that the big chunk of $$ are coming in there as they have your best work, which is exclusive. :)
But I would have expected you to do a lot better on the micros. However, DP is impressive.
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Let's see...
123RF - no sales ever
Pond 5 - Royalties up %400 due to a couple video sales, from $20 to $80
Deposit - Royalties up %50 from $100 to $150
GL - Royalties up from $16 to $20
Stocksy - Royalties up %200, DLs up 40%
Getting better, I guess :)
Unbelievable stats for your HCV portfolio.... but you dont mention Stocksy $$, so it could well be that the big chunk of $$ are coming in there as they have your best work, which is exclusive. :)
But I would have expected you to do a lot better on the micros. However, DP is impressive.
Have to agree. If Sean can't succeed at these places, probably nobody can.
Best wishes for 'onwards and upwards' on Stocksy.
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BME
1st - SS 45.1% (BME +7%) (+20% from Oct 2012)
3rd - IS 5.8% (PP average included) (-63% from Oct 2012)
4th - FT 5.5% (+22% from Oct 2012)
5th - 123RF 4.4% (-40% from Oct 2012)
9th - DT 2.7% (-23% from Oct 2012)
outside the "usual top 5" and on 30 agencies - 36.5%
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While I admire Sean's uploading preferences and methodology it is hardly what you would consider to be typical. If he were uploading in a method anywhere close to the average independent contributor his numbers would be significantly higher. The only reason I even mention this is because it is very likely that his results are going to be quoted a bit later on as a reason not to be independent. We need to remember that without subs on DP and 123 and no Shutterstock or DT his numbers are not exactly indicative of a true independent.
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While I admire Sean's uploading preferences and methodology it is hardly what you would consider to be typical. If he were uploading in a method anywhere close to the average independent contributor his numbers would be significantly higher. The only reason I even mention this is because it is very likely that his results are going to be quoted a bit later on as a reason not to be independent. We need to remember that without subs on DP and 123 and no Shutterstock or DT his numbers are not exactly indicative of a true independent.
If I were to go independent I also wouldn't support those sites. I think Sean is doing the right thing even though it must be hard.
Also this will likely be my BME or very close when Getty sales come in.
I am sure Sean will succeed, maybe he can contribute to Offset at SS?
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There are other options that he isn't exploring, but I will agree with you that this is probably the best argument for staying exclusive. However, it does throw the whole "bottom line is all I care about" argument out the window. It makes very little sense to upload in this manner if you are only concerned about how much money you are going to make.
I have a similar but slightly different uploading philosophy. I am in it for the long run and spend much more effort on a higher rpd and self hosted. My results have been constant BME's without supporting the sub sites for almost a year. In October my self hosted results were 95% of what I earned on SS and 3 times that of IS with a smaller port on SS and a comparable one on IS.
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While I admire Sean's uploading preferences and methodology it is hardly what you would consider to be typical. If he were uploading in a method anywhere close to the average independent contributor his numbers would be significantly higher. The only reason I even mention this is because it is very likely that his results are going to be quoted a bit later on as a reason not to be independent. We need to remember that without subs on DP and 123 and no Shutterstock or DT his numbers are not exactly indicative of a true independent.
If I were to go independent I also wouldn't support those sites. I think Sean is doing the right thing even though it must be hard.
Also this will likely be my BME or very close when Getty sales come in.
I am sure Sean will succeed, maybe he can contribute to Offset at SS?
I'm not sure what Sean's standards are but the 30% royalty rate might be too low? Especially if it is content that could possibly compete against the 50% he gets at Stocksy.
guess you are forgetting the pricing, Offset (250 and 500), Stocksy (10 to 100)
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250 x 0.3 = 75$
500 x 0.3 = 150$
highest on Stocksy (beside EL) for 100$ x 0.5 = 50$
I don't think that anybody would be unhappy with selling a license for 75$
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There are other options that he isn't exploring, but I will agree with you that this is probably the best argument for staying exclusive. However, it does throw the whole "bottom line is all I care about" argument out the window. It makes very little sense to upload in this manner if you are only concerned about how much money you are going to make.
I have a similar but slightly different uploading philosophy. I am in it for the long run and spend much more effort on a higher rpd and self hosted. My results have been constant BME's without supporting the sub sites for almost a year. In October my self hosted results were 95% of what I earned on SS and 3 times that of IS with a smaller port on SS and a comparable one on IS.
Oh, I forgot my self-hosted Photoshelter royalties. $100, up from $35 in September. At least it's paying for itself.
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I can't really do year on year comparisons as I virtually quit iStock in February and actually quit BigStock in March, but SS had a barnstorming October in spite of the fact that I have uploaded very little this year (not on purpose; various real life things have been distractions).
SS was up 10% over September and 5.5% over last October (which was a very good month). My year typically has November, December and October as the top three months (in that order) so I am optimistic for the next two months.
DT was a huge surprise - in a good way! They've been bumping along with regular but lackluster performance, but October was up 48% over September and 28% over last October (for $$). Promisingly the October downloads were up 35% over September - in other words it wasn't just a few big ELs lifting the totals.
123rf had an OK month - flat with last October, but as I'm now down to 45% instead of 50% and haven't uploaded anything to them since they joined the dark side with an RC scheme, that's not bad (and I'd probably upload to them again if they'd just ditch the variable scheme and return to 50% royalties).
Alamy returned from the dead with a couple of sales, but as they haven't cleared I have to wait for payment, reduced payout threshold notwithstanding.
PhotoDune continues as a steady low earner, but October was slightly down on September which is the wrong direction!
CanStock is sadly flat and I may just wrap them up as they aren't getting enough of the Fotosearch non-subscription sales any more to make the low royalties on everything else make sense.
GL Stock came back with a few sales after a long break with nothing, but they just don't seem to be finding their feet. Veer had a decent month (especially given I have only 800 files there) but no ELs which is the one good thing about Veer.
However add Veer and Canstock together and I still made more from one sale at FAA.
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tickstock, didn't you say that Getty sent you a house contract and you can now contribute directly? What are your first experiences?
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250 x 0.3 = 75$
500 x 0.3 = 150$
highest on Stocksy (beside EL) for 100$ x 0.5 = 50$
I don't think that anybody would be unhappy with selling a license for 75$
You might be if it's competing with your $100 sales? For example 40% on Getty RM. Or 100% on your personal site.
of course!
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Well, good luck. Please let us know how you do. 50 dollars per upload is a very drastic requirement. It is a pity they didn't offer you at least 10 free files. You are doing a lot of active advertising for them here and by reporting good results on msg you could give a very informed opinion that would interest many people.
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At the moment. i think you are by far the most enthusiastic public istock exclusive. I am not seeing anyone else post so positively about istock like you do. Not even on the istock forums, not on their facebookgroup or other places.
And any public comment,especially a positive one, is free advertising for an agency.
We all know that everyones portfolio and results are different, but I think the more people report results from Getty or other macro sites, the better. And since RM might be rediscovered by artists and agencies (and buyers) any insight to the RM experience is valuable.
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At the moment. i think you are by far the most enthusiastic public istock exclusive. I am not seeing anyone else post so positively about istock like you do. Not even on the istock forums, not on their facebookgroup or other places.
And any public comment,especially a positive one, is free advertising for an agency.
Hmm __ good point. Tickstock could easily be an Istock admin in disguise. Obvious when you think about it!
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At the moment. i think you are by far the most enthusiastic public istock exclusive. I am not seeing anyone else post so positively about istock like you do. Not even on the istock forums, not on their facebookgroup or other places.
And any public comment,especially a positive one, is free advertising for an agency.
Hmm __ good point. Tickstock could easily be an Istock admin in disguise.
... or a PR agency :)
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At the moment. i think you are by far the most enthusiastic public istock exclusive. I am not seeing anyone else post so positively about istock like you do. Not even on the istock forums, not on their facebookgroup or other places.
And any public comment,especially a positive one, is free advertising for an agency.
Hmm __ good point. Tickstock could easily be an Istock admin in disguise.
... or a PR agency :)
I'm thinking they could find someone better to do their PR don't you?
Not at all. You're well worth all the money they're paying you. I just hope they are paying you as it would be really sad otherwise.
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Earnings for the year to date are about 10% down. Almost entirely to drop in revenue from Istock. I don't find this surprising.
Working through submitting my port to deposit at the moment. Looking at the earning ratings on the right that could pick up for the drop in earnings from Istock.
RPD at dreamstime was the worst this year (83c) so although I had okay DL numbers earning there were a bit down. (I had a couple of months @ 160-200c) I suppose in defence the RPD at DT was higher than SS this month.
Another thing I should investigate is why my earnings are so low at fotolia. 4% of monthly earnings. Some people must be doing much better there.
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Best month this year and today, more DL's on SS that any day in October. Good start to another month. Not a BME as last year as there was one month with multiple very high dollar SOD's and numerous EL's. Love to have one of those months again, but realistically I'm not holding my breath.
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At the moment. i think you are by far the most enthusiastic public istock exclusive. I am not seeing anyone else post so positively about istock like you do. Not even on the istock forums, not on their facebookgroup or other places.
And any public comment,especially a positive one, is free advertising for an agency.
Hmm __ good point. Tickstock could easily be an Istock admin in disguise.
... or a PR agency :)
I'm thinking they could find someone better to do their PR don't you?
Not at all. You're well worth all the money they're paying you. I just hope they are paying you as it would be really sad otherwise.
I'm flattered. I also hope you getting paid well by Mr. Oringer.
;D ;D ;D
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Across the board about 90% higher than last October. October was my second worst month last year and it is my second worst month this year. No sales on my personal site this month and just a bunch of cards on FAA but hoping I'll see things pick up on both in November. I had one of my photos chosen to be featured in "Featured Photographers" on Photoshelter earlier this week, so hoping that brings in some visitors - it's a fine art piece so I'll see how it goes.
For the year I'm at 300% of last year with two months to go. Half of my stock photo income this year came from direct stock photo sales to clients who either found me through my Photoshelter site or from publishers I approached directly. Another 14% is due to sales on FAA which isn't exactly stock but is certainly similar. I've increased my portfolios at SS, DT and iS (just recently) between 10 and 20% and am up 35% on my combined income from all three last year, so that's actually not too bad. Alamy meanwhile has fallen off a cliff for me (it's about 1/3rd what it was last year and the few RM sales I'm getting over there have been for a pittance).
I think you all have the right idea with Symbiostock and looking to find a good outlet for RM work. Getting 100% of the license fee or close to that and licensing images for $100-$500 and up per license is clearly the way to go.
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Does anyone actually know what they made on Istock yet? I still show no sales after the 25th of October, but I know I made sales.
I am hesitant to report on the month without those stats. I can say that even if I made a couple hundred more than I am currently showing it was a poor month, and absolutely pitiful for October. First time in 8 years I haven't seen a post summer bump in September and October.
Guess this is the new normal for me. :-P
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Does anyone actually know what they made on Istock yet? I still show no sales after the 25th of October, but I know I made sales.
+1, no sales report after the 25th of October.
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Does anyone actually know what they made on Istock yet? I still show no sales after the 25th of October, but I know I made sales.
I am hesitant to report on the month without those stats. I can say that even if I made a couple hundred more than I am currently showing it was a poor month, and absolutely pitiful for October. First time in 8 years I haven't seen a post summer bump in September and October.
Guess this is the new normal for me. :-P
I worked out mine manually, which was easy as I had only 21 sales in that time. :'(
FWIW, I got a slight Sep/Oct 'bump', but only because July especially, and Aug were troughs of unimagined depth.
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If my earnings were animals:
SS - Whale
DT - Elephant
IS - Hippo
BS - Pig
FT - Piglet
Others - Shrimp
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This is in no way a knocking exercise although I'm sure it will be so interpreted (I'm just a pedantic SOD who likes the facts to add up). No high symbio earnings and, based on those that are, the actual score on the right would be somewhere between 4 and 8.
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This is in no way a knocking exercise although I'm sure it will be so interpreted (I'm just a pedantic SOD who likes the facts to add up). No high symbio earnings and, based on those that are, the actual score on the right would be somewhere between 4 and 8.
Self hosted is ALL direct sales, not solely Symbiostock.
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This is in no way a knocking exercise although I'm sure it will be so interpreted (I'm just a pedantic SOD who likes the facts to add up). No high symbio earnings and, based on those that are, the actual score on the right would be somewhere between 4 and 8.
In order to post a result at all you would need at least one sale. At $15-$20 per sale the score would be in the 3-4 range just to start. I think it is very likely that 15-20% of the self hosted people voting are actually getting very good sales. Those 8-10 people are probably bringing up the score quite a bit. When you couple this with a pretty high entry level I think this score is probably fairly accurate. My self hosted results were third in my personal rankings and just below shutterstock. Symbio was about 1/4 of my self hosted earnings.
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Self hosted has been around for a while - where was it on the chart? Symbio comes along and suddenly #3??
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It never had the required 50 votes before.
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It never had the required 50 votes before.
In other words symbio is the difference and completely obliterates the "ALL direct sales" argument. I've no axe to grind here as I wish the initiative well but, as things stand, that rating is a completely inaccurate and misleading statement of the facts.
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It never had the required 50 votes before.
In other words symbio is the difference and completely obliterates the "ALL direct sales" argument. I've no axe to grind here as I wish the initiative well but, as things stand, that rating is a completely inaccurate and misleading statement of the facts.
No not at all. As per example, It could have had 49 x 500 dollar votes sitting there, and needed one more vote, to get it on the board, which could have been the symbio votes.
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In order to post a result at all you would need at least one sale. At $15-$20 per sale the score would be in the 3-4 range just to start.
If you have to make a sale to post earnings then it will lead to massive inflation of the "self-hosted" figure, because all the sales will be at a decent price and all those who are trying to sell but failing will be excluded. There should be an "earnings = 0" option to dilute the figure and give a more representative idea of the sort of return people can reasonably expect, in comparison with how they do on other sites.
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There is a earnings is 0 option, on every agency and self hosted
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Yes this is correct. A similar imbalance is probably in play with the exclusive ranking. Not so much zero sales, but probably a much lower percentage of low performers. As far as self hosted goes even though it may not be exactly relative to the rest of the poll it does illustrate that it is possible to make decent money by hosting your own site.
In order to post a result at all you would need at least one sale. At $15-$20 per sale the score would be in the 3-4 range just to start.
If you have to make a sale to post earnings then it will lead to massive inflation of the "self-hosted" figure, because all the sales will be at a decent price and all those who are trying to sell but failing will be excluded. There should be an "earnings = 0" option to dilute the figure and give a more representative idea of the sort of return people can reasonably expect, in comparison with how they do on other sites.
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Yes this is correct. A similar imbalance is probably in play with the exclusive ranking. Not so much zero sales, but probably a much lower percentage of low performers. As far as self hosted goes even though it may not be exactly relative to the rest of the poll it does illustrate that it is possible to make decent money by hosting your own site.
In order to post a result at all you would need at least one sale. At $15-$20 per sale the score would be in the 3-4 range just to start.
If you have to make a sale to post earnings then it will lead to massive inflation of the "self-hosted" figure, because all the sales will be at a decent price and all those who are trying to sell but failing will be excluded. There should be an "earnings = 0" option to dilute the figure and give a more representative idea of the sort of return people can reasonably expect, in comparison with how they do on other sites.
Correct - different cross-sections of people reporting in both cases will produce skewed results without any implication of dishonest reporting.
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Yes this is correct. A similar imbalance is probably in play with the exclusive ranking. Not so much zero sales, but probably a much lower percentage of low performers. As far as self hosted goes even though it may not be exactly relative to the rest of the poll it does illustrate that it is possible to make decent money by hosting your own site.
In order to post a result at all you would need at least one sale. At $15-$20 per sale the score would be in the 3-4 range just to start.
If you have to make a sale to post earnings then it will lead to massive inflation of the "self-hosted" figure, because all the sales will be at a decent price and all those who are trying to sell but failing will be excluded. There should be an "earnings = 0" option to dilute the figure and give a more representative idea of the sort of return people can reasonably expect, in comparison with how they do on other sites.
Correct - different cross-sections of people reporting in both cases will produce skewed results without any implication of dishonest reporting.
Yeah, the thing is that on microstock sites - or, at least, those worth mentioning - nobody here will have zero sales. On the really minor sites there would be some inflation, but the sales those generate are so low-priced that it wouldn't lift them substantially. Self-hosting and Alamy are places where the difference between getting a sale and not getting one can be so huge that it introduces severe bias into the results.
I'm not certain that the survey does allow for zero sales or not, since I don't seem to come across it much.
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Whew, somebody gets it :)
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It never had the required 50 votes before.
In other words symbio is the difference and completely obliterates the "ALL direct sales" argument. I've no axe to grind here as I wish the initiative well but, as things stand, that rating is a completely inaccurate and misleading statement of the facts.
Self-hosted had actually been ranked pretty high among the unranked sites for a while. If you notice, Clipartof and Stocksy are usually at the top of that section every month. I assume it is because they are high earners for contributors, but they just don't have a lot of contributors. If they every make it to 50 votes, they will probably jump up to the top of the rankings too.
Also, I think anything below $5 count as 0.
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Given that the data is submitted I wonder why not post the complete raw data anonymized. Even if that means in a format which needs to be processed to be useful. I am sure we could quickly come up with spreadsheets to make sense of it. Then we could see how many people voted and how much they were actually earning at each site.
It seems to me that at the moment the data is made less useful by the way in which it is converted into rankings which are difficult to make sense of.
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The poll works well (at least the relative proportions match what I see in my own stuff) where most contributors would be involved. Getting a realistic average from IS exclusive, self hosted and some of the very high RPD / low DLs sites as well as the more specialist sites (certain illustrators/ video specialists report "low earners" as performing much better than portrayed) is more challenging.
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Given that the data is submitted I wonder why not post the complete raw data anonymized. Even if that means in a format which needs to be processed to be useful. I am sure we could quickly come up with spreadsheets to make sense of it. Then we could see how many people voted and how much they were actually earning at each site.
It seems to me that at the moment the data is made less useful by the way in which it is converted into rankings which are difficult to make sense of.
Agreed.
What does the current 82.7 for shutterstock mean? Not the percentage of earnings, obviously, since the sum is not 100. It should either be clear what the ranking means, or just feed the raw data in an anonymous fashion.
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It means that the average of all votes for Shutterstock was $413.50. $500 was selected to equal 100 in the poll so each point is $5.
How many times will Leaf have to come on and say that you can't work on that assumption before you will believe it?
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Given that the data is submitted I wonder why not post the complete raw data anonymized. Even if that means in a format which needs to be processed to be useful. I am sure we could quickly come up with spreadsheets to make sense of it. Then we could see how many people voted and how much they were actually earning at each site.
It seems to me that at the moment the data is made less useful by the way in which it is converted into rankings which are difficult to make sense of.
Agreed.
What does the current 82.7 for shutterstock mean? Not the percentage of earnings, obviously, since the sum is not 100. It should either be clear what the ranking means, or just feed the raw data in an anonymous fashion.
It means that the average of all votes for Shutterstock was $413.50. $500 was selected to equal 100 in the poll so each point is $5.
If thats the case, why is it so weird that self hosted is at 115$ ?
Sean made 135$ via Photoshelter in October...
People score Selfhosted around 8 based on my results, so then I score Selfhosted at 27 then, based on Sean's result. Almost overtaking IS. YES !!!
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It means that the average of all votes for Shutterstock was $413.50. $500 was selected to equal 100 in the poll so each point is $5.
How many times will Leaf have to come on and say that you can't work on that assumption before you will believe it?
But Baldrick, reality doesnt fit his agenda.
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It means that the average of all votes for Shutterstock was $413.50. $500 was selected to equal 100 in the poll so each point is $5.
How many times will Leaf have to come on and say that you can't work on that assumption before you will believe it?
This is based on what Leaf has said in the forum. He said he picked an arbitrary constant number to be 100 and then he said that arbitrary constant number was $500. Leaf has never disputed that. What he has said is that it's not exact because the categories are broad, ex. $2000 and 2500+ you can't say for sure if a vote for $2000 means the contributor made $2000 or $2499 so there is some error in that. He's also said that the top number is $2500+ so that can artificially keep the numbers lower than what they actually are. The second point probably just affects iStock exclusive earnings since only a very small percentage of independent contributors are making more that $2500 per month on a single site. Instead of saying it definitely is 100 = $500 maybe I should say approximately $500, would that make you happy? So 82.7 means that the average earnings of all the responses for Shutterstock is approximately $413.50.
So ... based on your latest pet theory (as usual on a subject of which you know very little) ... the average Istock exclusive must be making over $15K per month because "each point is $5". Duh!
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October was my BME with 31% increase to September and 31% increase compared to October 2012.
Best four: Shutterstock, Zazzle, DepositPhotos, FineArtAmerica
Blog Post: http://microstockinfos.blogspot.com/2013/11/stock-photography-sales-statistic.html (http://microstockinfos.blogspot.com/2013/11/stock-photography-sales-statistic.html)
List of agencies I submit images to: http://stock.hlehnerer.com/SA.html (http://stock.hlehnerer.com/SA.html)
(http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u97/hlehnerer/SalesStat/201310_zps1df605bc.jpg) (http://s166.photobucket.com/user/hlehnerer/media/SalesStat/201310_zps1df605bc.jpg.html)
(http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u97/hlehnerer/SalesStat/201310top_zps6ebbc63e.jpg) (http://s166.photobucket.com/user/hlehnerer/media/SalesStat/201310top_zps6ebbc63e.jpg.html)
(http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u97/hlehnerer/SalesStat/201310total_zps6ceb3616.jpg) (http://s166.photobucket.com/user/hlehnerer/media/SalesStat/201310total_zps6ceb3616.jpg.html)
(statistic include referral income)
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It means that the average of all votes for Shutterstock was $413.50. $500 was selected to equal 100 in the poll so each point is $5.
How many times will Leaf have to come on and say that you can't work on that assumption before you will believe it?
Which brings us back to - why not post the actual raw data anonymised ? Then we could see the actual numbers for how many $ everyone is taking from each site. And we could figure out our own spreadsheet formulas for making sense of the numbers. It would abolish the artificial distinction between exclusives or not etc.
Surely much better than arbitrary rankings and %ages which are difficult to understand or have arguable meaning.
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Do Zazzle, FAA, or Cafepress license stock photos? I know FAA doesn't so it seems those shouldn't be counted in the monthly earnings thread.
I guess I count it all as passive income, although it is not always so passive. So, Zazzle and anything else that isn't contract work gets counted. I do split out my referral earnings from the agency earnings though. Since, those shouldn't count towards RPD, RPI, etc.
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Do Zazzle, FAA, or Cafepress license stock photos? I know FAA doesn't so it seems those shouldn't be counted in the monthly earnings thread.
I guess I count it all as passive income, although it is not always so passive. So, Zazzle and anything else that isn't contract work gets counted. I do split out my referral earnings from the agency earnings though. Since, those shouldn't count towards RPD, RPI, etc.
Just sayin' this is the 'Microstock Poll' so I don't understand including income that isn't microstock related or even stock related.
This is not the Poll, this is just an earnings thread, people like to share income from the outlets. The poll doesnt include POD.
Are you wearing your forum moderator hat today? Which personality will you be tomorrow?
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Do Zazzle, FAA, or Cafepress license stock photos? I know FAA doesn't so it seems those shouldn't be counted in the monthly earnings thread.
I had no idea that the monthly earnings thread had such strict report policies ;D anyway I don't think it is very relevant because I am sure you know how to subtract ;)
actually POD sites need a picture to be sold (as products) so I don't think it is that wrong to include that on the earnings because in fact that picture was produced for stock purposes and POD is certainly one of them
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I knew it! it was too good to be true, you needed to edit and screw it as always right? ;D
I haven't call them stock sites BUT sites were contributors can sell products using the pictures they have produced for stock purposes, again if they are stock sites or pod sites or other doesn't really matter, money is the final goal right? POD sites like I have called them pay me in $$$$ not in potatoes ;)
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At the moment. i think you are by far the most enthusiastic public istock exclusive. I am not seeing anyone else post so positively about istock like you do. Not even on the istock forums, not on their facebookgroup or other places.
And any public comment,especially a positive one, is free advertising for an agency.
Hmm __ good point. Tickstock could easily be an Istock admin in disguise.
... or a PR agency :)
I'm thinking they could find someone better to do their PR don't you?
Not at all. You're well worth all the money they're paying you. I just hope they are paying you as it would be really sad otherwise.
I am no fan of IS but don't you think those comments are pushing it just a bit gostwyck. The same could be said about your frequent fanboy - SS can do no wrong comments.
"Check this out. SS are currently recruiting for a staggering 93 positions worldwide"
Since when is adding 93 meager positions worldwide staggering? If we used the same reasoning we could easily conclude that you are a SS admin.
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Do Zazzle, FAA, or Cafepress license stock photos? I know FAA doesn't so it seems those shouldn't be counted in the monthly earnings thread.
I had no idea that the monthly earnings thread had such strict report policies ;D anyway I don't think it is very relevant because I am sure you know how to subtract ;)
actually POD sites need a picture to be sold (as products) so I don't think it is that wrong to include that on the earnings because in fact that picture was produced for stock purposes and POD is certainly one of them
This is how I see it too, and have reported it now for years that way.
First of all I create all the image for the stock agencies. But in addition to this also use them for POD, and my blogs, website, iphone app to generate referral income. I see this all part of the business model "creating and selling stock images". IMHO if I only would report the activity from selling image license, then this would only show half of the picture.
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It means that the average of all votes for Shutterstock was $413.50. $500 was selected to equal 100 in the poll so each point is $5.
How many times will Leaf have to come on and say that you can't work on that assumption before you will believe it?
Leaf, to be sure I'm understand the meaning of the exclusive number (currently 222.1), it is still in a score of 100 = $500 a month?
This means that the score 222.1 = 500 x 2.221 = $1,110.50 reported average income for an exclusive Istocker?
If so then the reported combined non-exclusive total (all the poll results with a number total excluding the exclusive Istock number) is 259.4 which = 500 x 2.594 = $1,297 reported average income for an independent?
correct.
It is a very broad average though. The top limit of $2500 probably limits a lot of people, both on Shutterstock and for iStock exclusives (perhaps Fotolia as well for some). Right now it looks like independents are earning a bit more, but in terms of how accurate the poll results are, they are essentially identical. The poll is just meant to give a rough guide as to how the agencies stack up against each other. The yearly microstock survey will give a better idea of how exclusive/non-exclusive compare.
Note he says "it is a very broad average" .... "poll is just meant to give a rough guide...."
It can't be both "correct" and "very rough".
How could it be precise when you have to choose whether you earned, say1200, 1500 or 2000 "rounded up or down to the nearest". Given the Bell Curve, the number of roundings up will always exceed the number of roundings down, therefore skewing the result to the upside, except perhaps for the final figure.
So attempting to interpret it down to an exact 50c is going way, way beyond the bounds of accuracy of the calculation. There's a huge, inbuilt "plus or minus X%" where X is probably quite a large number.
In any case, it doesn't matter, because what is important is the ratio of the numbers to each other. It's probably about right to say that for indes SS generates about four times the income of DT and 2.5x that of iS, while exclusivity still seems to be slightly more profitable than independence.
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I thank you all for taking your time and sharing information.
For not being fluent in English, I apologize in advance for grammatical slips.
I am just another unknown micro photographer with an unimpressive performance, trying to survive. I am new to the forum and I am also beginner in MS, as I am contributor a little over two years. My portfolio is about 1000 files, except in iStock where I have around 500. I do uploads seasonally and it has been hard to establish any parameters.
The statistics provided by different agencies did not say much. I'm not sure if these statistics show a trend in the industry or just reflect my bad luck/performance alone. Anyway I'm terrible in metric or Statistics and here in MG exist a multitude of minds able to do something useful with these numbers, (at least more than me).
Shutterstock offered me a slightly better return than other Big 4 and the Middle Tier agencies. Except iStock that has deteriorated (in every way) month by month. Aaarrrgh! :o
If is possible take a lesson out of this numbers, please let me know. I would be very grateful..
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/9881/cj3q.jpg]
[url]http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/9881/cj3q.jpg (http://[url)[/url]
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unimpressive? you have a 1k portfolio doing over 2k $ just at SS, guess you must be joking ;D
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unimpressive? you have a 1k portfolio doing over 2k $ just at SS, guess you must be joking ;D
I think its 1k at SS, 2k in total .
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unimpressive? you have a 1k portfolio doing over 2k $ just at SS, guess you must be joking ;D
I think its 1k at SS, 2k in total .
that looks like SS only, at least looking at the picture provided
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The last 6 months have been consistently down by 30% for me. Culprits: mostly SS & DT. It's pulling me more into video and POD. You can't push a wet noodle up hill.
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I have said it before, change your name to Thickstock, because you seem to be really dense.
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Oh, grief, testosterone overdose again. :(
Anyway, FWIW, if we're being picky, Getty sales shouldn't technically be counted as micro earnings, even if via iS. (I count them separately on the thread as they were vaunted as an 'extra', not as 'propping up iS earnings', and now there seems to be precious little chance of the plebs without 'special deals' getting anything new eligible to be transferred.)
And if mega-picky, iS is now 'claiming' to be mid-stock, despite reducing half of its files:
http://www.microstockgroup.com/istockphoto-com/what-is-midstock/msg347760/#msg347760 (http://www.microstockgroup.com/istockphoto-com/what-is-midstock/msg347760/#msg347760)
so maybe they shouldn't be reported either.
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unimpressive? you have a 1k portfolio doing over 2k $ just at SS, guess you must be joking ;D
I think its 1k at SS, 2k in total .
that looks like SS only, at least looking at the picture provided
Yes Luis, I mean SS alone.
But my point is that with all the metrics offered by the agencies and by the services that provide statistics, I can't even visualize the future in the medium term.
When I check my numbers I can't guess what's happen.. I can't even find a relation between monthly downloads and monthly income.
I also didn't find relation also between upload and monthly income.
The months in which I did less if any uploading, were the months in which made more money.
The months I made more uploads were the months in which earned less.
So what?
I have no idea!
But I can tell that I still believe in the formula: increase production is equal increase monthly income.
So, once again, If is possible take a lesson out of this numbers, please let me know. I would be very grateful.
YES, my numbers are unimpressive. At least for me. I'm just a photographer who works alone and hire assistant when I can't carry all the stuffs. But despite the current trend of lowering the monthly income and despite the contradictions that I found looking at my own numbers I still believe the if I produce more I will earn more.
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Oh, grief, testosterone overdose again. :(
Anyway, FWIW, if we're being picky, Getty sales shouldn't technically be counted as micro earnings, even if via iS. (I count them separately on the thread as they were vaunted as an 'extra', not as 'propping up iS earnings', and now there seems to be precious little chance of the plebs without 'special deals' getting anything new eligible to be transferred.)
And if mega-picky, iS is now 'claiming' to be mid-stock, despite reducing half of its files:
[url]http://www.microstockgroup.com/istockphoto-com/what-is-midstock/msg347760/#msg347760[/url] ([url]http://www.microstockgroup.com/istockphoto-com/what-is-midstock/msg347760/#msg347760[/url])
so maybe they shouldn't be reported either.
There is less of line between macro and micro stock (if there ever was a real line between them), at least they are all the same category of income, income from licensing stock. POD and art are different. The person that I was asking about had nearly 50% of their 'stock' sales from non-stock sources, that's what I don't think makes sense.
actually its 27%
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you are doing just fine MB2B, I am sure you in the top 250, perhaps lower
with 1k files and averaging over 2145$/month in the last two years we are the ones that need lessons not you ;D
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Oh, grief, testosterone overdose again. :(
Anyway, FWIW, if we're being picky, Getty sales shouldn't technically be counted as micro earnings, even if via iS. (I count them separately on the thread as they were vaunted as an 'extra', not as 'propping up iS earnings', and now there seems to be precious little chance of the plebs without 'special deals' getting anything new eligible to be transferred.)
And if mega-picky, iS is now 'claiming' to be mid-stock, despite reducing half of its files:
[url]http://www.microstockgroup.com/istockphoto-com/what-is-midstock/msg347760/#msg347760[/url] ([url]http://www.microstockgroup.com/istockphoto-com/what-is-midstock/msg347760/#msg347760[/url])
so maybe they shouldn't be reported either.
There is less of line between macro and micro stock (if there ever was a real line between them), at least they are all the same category of income, income from licensing stock. POD and art are different. The person that I was asking about had nearly 50% of their 'stock' sales from non-stock sources, that's what I don't think makes sense.
actually its 27%
Right, unless some of those other sites are not stock sites. I don't know about some of the sites listed.
Redbubble but 0%
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you are doing just fine MB2B, I am sure you in the top 250, perhaps lower
with 1k files and averaging over 2145$/month in the last two years we are the ones that need lessons not you ;D
it seems there was a bug and the same picture came several times ..
I guess I'm not in a position to teach anything. Really. But I'm glad to share our experiences.
I not even sure if there is trend of lowering the monthly income. As I wrote I would be very, very happy if you guys could share some thoughts about the relation between upload and income...
Luis, I appreciate your kindness in answering. Thanks.
:)
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MB2B the outstanding in your numbers is the stability of your income trough the two years, this must be from the quality of your work, ... I don't want to warm you but ... the agencies change their best match times to times ... And when that happen you will see if your portfolio is truly bullet prove.
And yes, you must have consistent upload ... I think all best match have this in their algoritm.
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Just be warned that providing such details numbers and screenshots is against SS TOS. Just saying. And what you have achieved with 1k images, is unbelievable. You must have brilliant images. Are you a vector artist or illustrator?
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in only 2 years, you got over 2k from ss... wow... that's called ahievement not bad luck..hehe ;D
and you got alot sod ,od and el on the dls percentage, your rpd is great, wow..i think the illustrators aint got such high rpd! :(
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Just be warned that providing such details numbers and screenshots is against SS TOS. Just saying. And what you have achieved with 1k images, is unbelievable. You must have brilliant images. Are you a vector artist or illustrator?
Ron, I have no idea about that. Sad, I shared these pictures with the hope to help us understand a little better our industry. Is it possible to delete them? Anyway I am very grateful for your advice.
By the way, I am a photographer. I work alone. I hire one or two assistants when I cant carry it all myself. I wish my budget would allow me to hire a larger number of assistants, models and extras. ☺
Dear hjalmeida, about their algorithms, I am not sure about how this works. I did not find a strong relation between downloads and monthly income. Perhaps both my numbers as the estimated period are very small. The fluctuation in the number of downloads (around 200) may also have been negligible. Like I said, I suck with statistics.
But a greater or smaller number of on demand, enhanced, and single & others downloads had a huge impact on my earnings. It would be great if there was some way to predict these kind of downloads.
Hopefully increasing the portfolio will be a synonym of increasing the monthly income. Cause that is what I plan to do.
It would be great if the production of this months helps minimize my usual bad performance on the next quarter (December, January and February).
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In any case, it doesn't matter, because what is important is the ratio of the numbers to each other. It's probably about right to say that for indes SS generates about four times the income of DT and 2.5x that of iS, while exclusivity still seems to be slightly more profitable than independence.
In a nutshell - this is the essential point.
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You're no fun. People want to nit pick, argue and debate, even when they are making it up. :) Yes I agree, it's relative earnings and according to the way it's constructed 100 = $500. And I might add, MB2B Nice Work!
Might also add, it's pretty straight forward. Work more make more. People need to stop micro analyzing short term, hours, days or even months after adding new files, or not add anything. It's the tortoise and the Hare. Slow but steady wins.
Kind of like wanting to know the meaning of life. The agencies are constantly changing and arranging things. If you think you have it figured out, it's probably not the same as it was when you came to that conclusion. Trying to understand something with all the uncontrolled variables, plus the agency testing and tuning, will make someone crazy. But here's the evidence... read the forums and what people claim is FACT about searches, sales trends, best match, keywords or anything else.
Most of it is just an educated guess. And some aren't even that.
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In any case, it doesn't matter, because what is important is the ratio of the numbers to each other. It's probably about right to say that for indes SS generates about four times the income of DT and 2.5x that of iS, while exclusivity still seems to be slightly more profitable than independence.
In a nutshell - this is the essential point.