MicrostockGroup
Microstock Photography Forum - General => General Stock Discussion => Topic started by: Sean Locke Photography on November 21, 2008, 06:18
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I don't know if anyone saw this article on the group of contributors that are micro "factories".
http://www.pdnonline.com/pdn/content_display/features/featured-in-print/e3i0731a97427122625320ef0cf0d1d4849
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Interesting article but I'm more interested in the first comment
"Ken Mckee
November 21, 2008Dear David, I don't tink it's very wise to dedicate articles to these people who have destroyed the photo industry. If we go on like this in a couple of years there won't be anymore business left. Is it smart to sell for one dollar what is worth maybe 300 or 1000? Every silly man can do that. No wonder lot of agencies are closing. But why don't you ask photographers what do they think of microsales?"
I find comments like this amazing. First, micro didn't change the market by itself. Cheap pro DSLRs, internet distribution capabilities, changing buyer trends, and now the economy are what changed the industry. Micro, along with every other type of buyer source including Flickr, are a byproduct of these industry changes.
If demand is dropping on $300 to $1,000 photos and the supply is increasing then the market dictates those prices will go down. While I would love to sell all of my photos at higher prices the reality is there is now a whole new micro segment, and there will always be a macro segment. But some macro buyers are shifting to micro and macro is shrinking. Until that shift has stablized macro sales volume will be flat or decrease.
So what's better to do? Try to brush under the carpet that speeding train that's about to run over you and your career? Or do like some of the contributors mentioned in the article and continue macro while also embracing the newer micro market?
I see so many comments from traditional photographers who think microstock is solely to blame that give me the impression that they either know little about business in general or feel the best approach is to ignore the massive change. Good luck.
CLARIFICATION EDIT: Added "who think microstock is solely to blame". Wasn't trying to imply all traditionals think this way.
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...So what's better to do? Try to brush under the carpet that speeding train that's about to run over you and your career? Or do like some of the contributors mentioned in the article and continue macro while also embracing the newer micro market?
Pauline, some will; others won't. you know what happened to dinosaurs? inability to adapt.
some macro photographers will become stock dinosaurs. and many newbies (like myself) could well get drowned by the next flood... ;D ;D ;D
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Thanks for the article Sean,
I also think there is a lot of growth in Micro and you will see more and more production houses approach the market, I know of a couple that are in the middle of their transition. I think the letter rings true to a point. The only thing that will stop this transition is if or when there is not enough money from buyers to sustain these companies at these lower price points, number of buyers is finite.
The biggest mistake Micro made was where it set it's price point in the beginning. Companies like Fotolia show that when an image price is doubled the photographer doubles his income and does not lose sales. If Micro had started at a base of $5 dollars for the smallest the sales would have been astrinomical by now ( remember at the time the cheapest option was $79 in Macro RF ). Money was left on the table to start with but that doesn't mean it will not change over time.
Macro RF started with very low prices and over time the price point of that product increased significantly. I would expect to see the price point of Micro continue to grow along with the quality but I think it will take the control of just a couple of big players to set that point and control it.
If photographers send their work out in Micro to all the sites the buyers are going to find their favorite images at the lower priced stores if everything else about the shopping experience remains equal.
That makes the growth sale point harder and slower to move until the majority of the Micro sites that produce the lions share of the revenue are bought up by a couple larger companies. I expect to see sales of strong Micro companies to much larger corporations in the future.
Interesting times,
AVAVA
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I'd missed that article - thanks for posting.
I found a couple of interesting things in there - one was the story about Monkey Business. Very similar to Ron Chapple's set up. You certainly can't argue with the sales these high-production outfits generate, but one of the things buyers had commented on was the availability of "real people" through microstock. For those who found mainstream stock too slick, this provided an alternative. As the mainstream moves in, they bring their high polish production values with them. Perhaps keeping the "real" look is a niche that the smaller microstock producer can exploit to stay competitive.
Another was the comment about microstock as a dumping ground for RF. I'd opined earlier about FT's Infinite collection (that it was of poor quality), but this quote from the article said the same thing very publicly: "Not surprisingly, RF distributors are dumping their surplus on microstock distributors. Image Source recently unloaded thousands of outdated and non-selling images into Fotolia's "Infinite" collection. " If you were FT, trying to pitch the premium nature of this collection, such press coverage isn't helping :)
The other comment by Yuri Arcurs that seemed to leave a niche for the one-person microstock producer was this: "To cut his costs, he tries to shoot in the studio rather than doing location shoots as going on location requires more planning, travel and post-production clean-up while yielding fewer selects". For those using friends, family, their own houses, gardens and neighborhoods, the costs of "location shooting" can be kept low.
No one mentioned illustrations - I guess because you can't churn those out in quite the same way. If iStock ever fixes the best match problems that sent illustration sales tumbling, I plan to do more of those as another niche that the volume producers can't easily fill.
It's clear that those of us who started small and amateur have to find a spot in this new universe. The trick is spotting and filling the niches.
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Can someone please explain to this newby the difference in RF and Microstock? I thought Microstock was RF???
Thanks for posting the article. It was very enlightening .. and discouraging for this loner. :-\
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Microstock is usually RF (except some agencies tht accept editorial); Macrostock can be editorial, RM, editorial and RF. When macrostock is RF the licensing is the same; what is different is just the price for the buyer. Macrostock y more expensive.
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Microstock is usually RF (except some agencies tht accept editorial);
Do not confuse Royalty Free/Rights Managed with an commercial/editorial license. You can have editorial RF, and that's what the micros have.
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Yeulet also believes in the growth potential for microstock because buyers are mostly U.S.-based; international markets have yet to fully develop.
My Key sentence
you need to produce volume.
That's what the agencies want us to do
Yeulet also believes in the growth potential for microstock because buyers are mostly U.S.-based; international markets have yet to fully develop.
Without investing more
So we
need to produce volume.
For the same
mostly U.S.-based;
Buyers
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Great article. Shows there is still hope. However, it also should be used to motivate the regular contributors to fight off high volume guys who may or may not slowly creep into their niche (depending on what they shoot)
One thing that will never change is to upload variety first, then find out what sells and what makes good money and attack that subject to the point that you find new and creative ways to represent that subject. Volume on a subject that flies low on the radar but gets a lot of attention from buyers is key. Its where you can make your mark, the same way Yuri and others started with making their mark on business people on white backgrounds.
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I'll make the same comment here that I made over at SS:
"When it becomes that much of a business and it loses that community feel, they [volume producers] will suffer in other ways. There's that real camaraderie in our community. When someone steps out of that, I wouldn't be too surprised if some of them get ostracized a little bit."
I like Kelly, and think he's generally a pretty sensible guy from what I've read and heard from him in interviews. But that statement has got to be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read about microstock. Ron, Yuri, and the rest of the top volume shooters could not care less about that community, and rightfully so. It's their choice. What arrogance to think that the his community can have such influence over the business, especially over how good or bad the volume shooters do.
Sorry, Kelly, but pleasing the masses at any one site (even a big one) is not a requirement for success in microstock. Call it ostracized, disrespecting your community, call it whatever you want. Some of these guys are simply choosing not to be a part of it, and they're still making excellent money. What does it matter if they don't give a crap about your forums?
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Totally agree. But still, maybe he meant those enthusiastic supporters, who are feeding the hype about IS (somehow reminds me of Apple, don't know why :D), even though they don't get (that) much sales, and who say "Great change of the best match" even though their downloads get down to half of what they used to be?
PS: Isn't Yuri danish not dutch?
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Some of these guys are simply choosing not to be a part of it, and they're still making excellent money. What does it matter if they don't give a crap about your forums?
And likely they're just too busy to be bothered. All the warm and fuzzy faving and networks meant to smooth photog egos I think and there is very little, if any, value to buyers. Instead of fluff architecture, any site is better served by building better features for buyers in order to find what they need in an efficient manner.
PS Yes I believe Yuri is Danish.
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But that statement has got to be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read about microstock. Ron, Yuri, and the rest of the top volume shooters could not care less about that community, and rightfully so. It's their choice. What arrogance to think that the his community can have such influence over the business, especially over how good or bad the volume shooters do.
I don't think that's especially what he's saying. By not participating, as notably some of these high-flyers do, they miss out on tips and other ways to be successful, on a certain site. Which is great. Also, as far as iStock is concerned, everyone here seems to think independents are disadvantaged in the best match sort, and these factories certainly aren't going to go exclusive and join that community, so they lose out even more. Which is great. :)
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Hi All,
The reason some of the older players ( that have every right to this market as everyone else ) cannot become exclusive with Istock is because of the incredibly limiting contract that has been built at Istock. A contract this limiting has never existed before in the stock industry. It limits a photographer more than any contract ever presented in the history of stock industry. I would imagine you would like to have a chance to work your way to a Stone contract the highest return per image in the market or working for Corbis someday if they become the big player next year.
I hope you get a chance I hope everyone that works hard gets a chance. Sometimes it sounds like you think these larger producers are run by Time Warner or some big corporation. They are people just like you that helped build this industry working very hard for many years and continue to give back to the community, Ron Chapple ( iofoto ) has been a great mentor for many in this industry for years and to say he doesn't care is just ignorant. These producers only want to be part of the future growth without being kept from free trade. It sounds to me like there are some people out there that are threatened by free trade and open competition. I have never worried or felt threatened about the next guy or my competition it just doesn't seem productive to me and defiantly not healthy.
Best,
AVAVA
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I don't know about community on one site only, but one thing it seems that none of the really high volume producers are interested in is trying to improve terms and conditions for contributors as a whole. They are there as their own business and any sense of a community of contributors trying to ensure we don't get hosed by the sites we submit to is absent, as far as I can tell.
Over the past few years there have been battles over money and terms - with DT (1 year commitment reduced to 6 months), FT (subscription terms), StockXpert (subscription terms and the Jupiter Images stuff). It is possible for contributors to make a difference to avoid the worst excesses of the agencies through which we license our work.
I don't recall participation, let alone leadership, from those high volume producers. As they haven't built any type of relationship with any other contributors, there may be others who feel as I do that I wouldn't raise my little finger to help them unless my own interests were also served.
The recent thread about credit card fraud chargebacks is a good example of this. I agree that the sites should be taking that hit out of their own portion of the sales proceeds. Unless contributors take a stand against it, they'll keep on doing what they currently are. There's not much incentive for them to tighten up their security procedures while contributors pay. I don't expect to see any help or support on pushing for change from the high-volume producers.
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I don't recall participation, let alone leadership, from those high volume producers. As they haven't built any type of relationship with any other contributors, there may be others who feel as I do that I wouldn't raise my little finger to help them unless my own interests were also served.
That is so true. It's actually how the game is played. But sad because it's not how I live normally. If there's one thing I don't like with the contributors community it's the "who cares" if I'm not directly affected by the problem. But it's the actual community reality and why there's no stock photographers association or something like
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Hi JS,
They might not have lead battles the way that you would have liked them to but some do give back to this industry. I think some have offered more advice and help on their blogs and throughout the industry than most of the posters on this site. Also you are not aware of what they had to say directly to these Micro companies about the subjects you speak of. I know I speak directly with the owners of these companies. I am meeting with one tomorrow here in Seattle while he is in town to discuss their company from a photographers view point. There is a lot that people do that you will never know about. Please don't assume every one of the big producers are out to get you or steal your business they might actually be trying to improve conditions. You might also end up being one of them someday. I think you are all expecting to much from these people they are just trying to run their businesses just like you.
Best,
AVAVA
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Hi Vonkara,
Check out this link. There are groups to speak up for stock but it takes participation from everyone to make it strong.
http://www.stockartistsalliance.org/
Best, AVAVA
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But that statement has got to be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read about microstock. Ron, Yuri, and the rest of the top volume shooters could not care less about that community, and rightfully so. It's their choice. What arrogance to think that the his community can have such influence over the business, especially over how good or bad the volume shooters do.
I don't think that's especially what he's saying. By not participating, as notably some of these high-flyers do, they miss out on tips and other ways to be successful, on a certain site. Which is great. Also, as far as iStock is concerned, everyone here seems to think independents are disadvantaged in the best match sort, and these factories certainly aren't going to go exclusive and join that community, so they lose out even more. Which is great. :)
To read the forums helps to have success in this business but there is no need to post (i never post at istock) that said the best tips / information for this industry i have read here and in a foreign language one but not on istock. You support iStock because you're bound in a contract to them and not because you are part of a great community! This contract is the most unfair one the whole stockindustry ever have seen and its closer to middleage serfdom. You support istock just because its directly related to your personal financial gain NOT because to help the community.
You are a smart person get some common sense and don't try to bullshiting us.
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The recent thread about credit card fraud chargebacks is a good example of this. I agree that the sites should be taking that hit out of their own portion of the sales proceeds. Unless contributors take a stand against it, they'll keep on doing what they currently are. There's not much incentive for them to tighten up their security procedures while contributors pay. I don't expect to see any help or support on pushing for change from the high-volume producers.
JS , could it be that they (HVP) don't get to fraud chargeback? much like the preference given to exclusives with IS. that could explain why they (HVP) are not screaming for more security measures.
like you say, they may be in fact saying, "I wouldn't raise my little finger to help them unless my own interests were also served."
going a bit off topic, but still relevant. let me tell you my most treasure experience:
i'm not sure how the stock "community" works. but as a working photographer for over 20 years,
most "working" photographers are self-centered too. i remember as a newbie in the late 80's when i went to the capital to gain experience, most of the photographers told me they had no time to see me.
except for a handful of truly successful photographers, ie. one gave me a job as a retoucher apprentice (he was the one who shot portraits of the great PM trudeau),
and another one of them who gave me the most of his time, ie 30 minutes... sat down with me to view my portfolio at his chateau laurier office. the man's name was Karsh.
do we have the same thing like that in stock photography? i don't know. i am a newbie in this section of the business. anyway, when i thanked Mr. Yusouf Karsh for being so considerate to me, a little unknown beginner in the business, even though he was already the greatest living portraitist of his time having shot everyone from churchill, to hepburn, to nuruyev, he humble reply was, "
remember this, anyone can be a great photographer if he practises enough. but it's just as important to always practise to be a great human being".
i think Karsh knew what community is, as every photographer in the business who've met the great man knew how kind he was.
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Hali,
Thank you for sharing that. What an incredible man and how lucky you are to have that memory. There will always be people like that in every industry. I don't know if you will find a Karsh on this site but there are some god people and I find the more successful they are the more wiling they are to share. If I was spiritual I would think there is some kind of connection there. Karma maybe.
Best,
AVAVA
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I am meeting with one tomorrow here in Seattle while he is in town to discuss their company from a photographers view point. There is a lot that people do that you will never know about.
Be sure to let us know what happens in the discussion. Then there won't be so much that people do that we don't know about.
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in reply to sjlocke...You support istock just because its directly related to your personal financial gain NOT because to help the community.
You are a smart person get some common sense and don't try to bullshiting us.
You don't have to agree with what you read, but you do need to be polite and respectful. Your comment suggests that you know that what he's saying is false and that he's trying to con people. That's an outrageous thing to say. Even a comment that what he wrote is b..s - which is your opinion, is preferable to calling someone else a liar, which is not.
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Hi All,
The reason some of the older players ( that have every right to this market as everyone else ) cannot become exclusive with Istock is because of the incredibly limiting contract that has been built at Istock. A contract this limiting has never existed before in the stock industry. It limits a photographer more than any contract ever presented in the history of stock industry. I would imagine you would like to have a chance to work your way to a Stone contract the highest return per image in the market or working for Corbis someday if they become the big player next year.
I hope you get a chance I hope everyone that works hard gets a chance. Sometimes it sounds like you think these larger producers are run by Time Warner or some big corporation. They are people just like you that helped build this industry working very hard for many years and continue to give back to the community, Ron Chapple ( iofoto ) has been a great mentor for many in this industry for years and to say he doesn't care is just ignorant. These producers only want to be part of the future growth without being kept from free trade. It sounds to me like there are some people out there that are threatened by free trade and open competition. I have never worried or felt threatened about the next guy or my competition it just doesn't seem productive to me and defiantly not healthy.
Best,
AVAVA
I respect your opinion, but thinking that Ron Chapple is 'a mentor' from the goodness of his heart is way off base. He (and Yuri) are using their popularity and incredible photography skills to build a brand through blogs and their 'mentorship' which generates a greater bottom line for them directly or indirectly. Brand building isn't all about pictures and using the camera. They understand that. Do you?
As for iStock, they use the community to intertwine their designers and photographers, where they compete in those cage match things, and stuff like that, and despite the perceived censorship or standard issues talked about in other threads, it seems like a great place to go to do business and also to learn what is going on.
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...anyway, when i thanked Mr. Yusouf Karsh for being so considerate to me, a little unknown beginner in the business ... he humble reply was, "
remember this, anyone can be a great photographer if he practises enough. but it's just as important to always practise to be a great human being".
i think Karsh knew what community is, as every photographer in the business who've met the great man knew how kind he was.
Great story. It's a nice counterpart to those folks who are full of themselves and very standoffish to have an example of thoughtful and kind consideration for a newbie.
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Hi Ichiro 17,
Do you know Ron personally. I think until you do or try to approach him personally what you say is just another opinion with very little merit. This is what I refer to as " The Haters " I can tell you when I started looking into building a Micro collection company I called him out of the blue ( he didn't know me from Adam ) and he spent an hour on the phone giving out very helpful advice, phone numbers of contacts and anything I wanted to know, told me to call anytime. He was an open book and he always has been. I have followed Rons work as have most successful stock photographer for years and outside of this little circle he is very respected and admired for his efforts in helping the stock community. Why don't you look him up and give him a call. He has more to get done in a day than 10 of us but he will still take your call.
I hear some fear,frustration and envy I hear all those things in this post but I don't here how these people inspire anyone. I am inspired by the biggest players out there because just their efforts to build their own company give me faith that I can do it myself. I spend as much time as I can talking to people from this board and others about any questions I can back door through e-mails and Skype, am I trying to build some secret Micro empire or maybe I just like to help other people when I can.
If I had 15,000 images in Micro would I become one of the bad guys to. This feeling of entitlement is so prevelant these days in society. What happened to the "one that works the hardest and the smartest gets to the top first ". Is he supposed to throw you a rope after he spent his entire life to get to the top.
So you feel he should help everyone but if at any time that looks like it might serve his business by helping others that makes him a fake or self serving. If you feel that way I would be concerned about your ability to learn anything from those that came before you. And yes he is a Mentor. I could send you a list the length of my arm of people he has helped in this business that I know personally.
Best,
AVAVA
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Hi Ichiro 17,
Do you know Ron personally. I think until you do or try to approach him personally what you say is just another opinion with very little merit. This is what I refer to as " The Haters " I can tell you when I started looking into building a Micro collection company I called him out of the blue ( he didn't know me from Adam ) and he spent an hour on the phone giving out very helpful advice, phone numbers of contacts and anything I wanted to know, told me to call anytime. He was an open book and he always has been. I have followed Rons work as have most successful stock photographer for years and outside of this little circle he is very respected and admired for his efforts in helping the stock community. Why don't you look him up and give him a call. He has more to get done in a day than 10 of us but he will still take your call.
I hear some fear,frustration and envy I hear all those things in this post but I don't here how these people inspire anyone. I am inspired by the biggest players out there because just their efforts to build their own company give me faith that I can do it myself. I spend as much time as I can talking to people from this board and others about any questions I can back door through e-mails and Skype, am I trying to build some secret Micro empire or maybe I just like to help other people when I can.
If I had 15,000 images in Micro would I become one of the bad guys to. This feeling of entitlement is so prevelant these days in society. What happened to the "one that works the hardest and the smartest gets to the top first ". Is he supposed to throw you a rope after he spent his entire life to get to the top.
So you feel he should help everyone but if at any time that looks like it might serve his business by helping others that makes him a fake or self serving. If you feel that way I would be concerned about your ability to learn anything from those that came before you. And yes he is a Mentor. I could send you a list the length of my arm of people he has helped in this business that I know personally.
Best,
AVAVA
I'm not calling Ron Chapple anything because I think he's an excellent business-minded, industry leader that knows what he needs to do to get things done. I don't think for a minute that he's the 'bad guy' or that I should 'hate him'. In fact, I respect him and follow his work from a distance as a general gauge of his impressions on the industry. However, I am going to call you naive. By him helping you, you can go out and generate great photos which in turn will increase the quality and appeal of the stock business to potential buyers who then will come and buy. And the people with the best quality with lots of quantity will benefit too, because more buyers means bigger pie, and money pie is loved by all and usually shared at the same ratio as the smaller pie.
Don't call me a hater because you only want to believe one side of the story. His 15,000 - 20,000 photos are good for the industry and maybe not so good for smaller guys bottom lines. Does it affect me much? No, I don't try to make a living off of this yet and if I was going to try to do so, who better to learn from than someone who knows everything about it. And good for him for being able to produce so much Q&Q. His 'mentorship' is good for you and its also good for him in many ways, one of which is that he's giving back, another of which could be a bump in a bottom line.
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Ichiro,
Read your first post dude. I feel like I am talking to two different people. I use the word " haters " to speak of the people that attack others without any merit or real data I don't think you hate him. Hate is a strong word I should probably not use it to explain myself, it is a slang term in the U.S.. Yes I believe I do understand branding and quite well actually. Do you understand misinformation and the spreading of rumor not based on fact.
Just give him a call and ask him anything you want I bet he will not only take your call but give you more information to help your company than you ever thought possible. What more can you ask of a competitor. If you want to pick out people on this board that only take and do not give back you shouldn't have to look to far, I know a couple of them here.
I am very big on helping others but I am not very big on people starting rumors. I am naive to many things in life but one area I feel I have a very good understanding of is stock photography and the business end of stock.
I have found throughout life that most of the people in the world that don't believe others are out there to actually help don't believe it true because they would never do such a thing themselves.
I am curious, why do you think I know only one side of the story can you please share with me the other side with some actual data to back it up I am always looking for the truth. If you know something based on fact please share it with all of us that is what these forums are about for me. The sharing of factual information.
Best,
AVAVA
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I have some observations which I think can add to this discussion.
First, the agencies 'get it' a lot more than we realise. I was lucky enough to hear Getty, Corbis, Jupiter and Masterfile senior executives answer questions about the industry last month, and I was amazed at how well informed they were about what it happening in the industry and how much I, and many others here at MSG, underestimate the sophistication of their decision making. It really does look from the outside like they're pretty stupid sometimes, otherwise we wouldn't all have this perception, but there are many factors that influence their actions and inactions which we don't see. They get it, trust me.
A new market comes with new rules. We (microstock photographers) opened up the market. In doing so, we took power away from individuals and organised groups. An industry association like SAA works in the traditional portion of the market because it's the old model (limited suppliers, individual contracts, relationship driven, etc). In this context there are many of us here in this forum who 'get it' a LOT less than these 'old school' traditionalist.
It's easy to confuse 'contributing to the community' with pure philanthropy. I have a blog with over 200 posts with the sole aim of helping microstock contributors, completely free for anyone to read. This is NOT an example of generosity, giving back, or philanthropy. I'm extremely happy that what I've created helps people for free, but I'm not doing it for that reason. I'm neither that generous nor that financially independent. It's safe to assume that the top contributors who are creating blogs and videos which help the contributor community have similar business motives. It doesn't mean that they are not generous individuals nor that they aren't happy that what they're doing helps other people. Ron is in fact extremely generous, from someone who knows him personally.
Finally, I'm constantly surprised at how connected the industry is. The top contributors speak directly with the CEOs of microstock agencies, in depth, and frequently. Some agencies approach their top contributors for opinions and insights when considering strategic decisions. I've actually seen information plugged in on one side of the industry pop out on the other side. Again, 'constantly surprised'. Plus, in my experience, with only a few exceptions, both the top contributors and agency CEOs are very open and approachable as Ichiro17's experience below demonstrates. Try it sometime. The thing between us and the information that can make the biggest difference is our resistance to picking up the phone or writing an email.
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Really well written Lee thank you for your insight. I am actually meeting today with one of the owners of a Micro site to discuss the photographers needs. Communication is the key. You know what they say about assuming ;)
Best,
AVAVA
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...Plus, in my experience, with only a few exceptions, both the top contributors and agency CEOs are very open and approachable as Ichiro17's experience below demonstrates. Try it sometime. The thing between us and the information that can make the biggest difference is our resistance to picking up the phone or writing an email.
lee, unless i misread, don't you mean AVAVA, rather than Ichiro17? it was AVAVA who called...
and was responding to Ichiro17.
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...Plus, in my experience, with only a few exceptions, both the top contributors and agency CEOs are very open and approachable as Ichiro17's experience below demonstrates. Try it sometime. The thing between us and the information that can make the biggest difference is our resistance to picking up the phone or writing an email.
lee, unless i misread, don't you mean AVAVA, rather than Ichiro17? it was AVAVA who called...
and was responding to Ichiro17.
Correct! My mistake. I also said "below" when the referenced post actually appears 'above'. You'd think I'd have learned that by now!
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I use the word " haters " to speak of the people that attack others without any merit or real data I don't think you hate him.
Then can we stop the term using? I feel like I'm at an Amway meeting or something. Or is that "dream stealer"? I can't remember. Anyways, it's a loaded phrase.
Also, I'm curious as to what "photographer needs" you're discussing with a microstock site, when you're relatively new to the microstock game. So, be sure to let us know what transpires.
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Maybe I'm the one that just doesn't 'get it'. Maybe not. All I do know for me is that reading forums and not shooting isn't helping me upload better files (or any files for that matter) to make more money or contribute to this community or get closer to becoming one of those guys who has 10000 images online. So I think I'm going to work on that and just soak up information when I have the time.
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Very interesting article. I have to admit to feeling somewhat threatened by the high volume producers. As someone who has been doing this full-time for a couple of years, I don't know how long I will be able to compete.
On the up side, my production costs are extremely low, so much of what I earn is profit. While I am quite willing to improve my equipment and skills to keep my image quality rising, I am not interested in expanding to a paid staff.
On my own I am able to produce only about 30-50 high quality images uploaded in a given week. One of the main things I have always loved about doing this and working for myself is that I can take time off when I want or need to. As a result I only average around 1,000 images per year added to my portfolio. 1500 of those were added in the last year and represent about the maximum effort I am able to put in.
Not that I blame higher volume producers. I admire them, but don't want the high pressure that producing that volume would add to my life. If I wanted that I would be working in the corporate world.
I just wonder if there will continue to be a viable living in this industry for solitary practitioners or mom & pop shops. It is somewhat comforting that Serban at Dreamstime and KK Thompson at Istock do at least have the intention of balancing the needs of the big producers and the small ones.
Only time will tell I suppose. At least my husband has a secure day job :)
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Not that I blame higher volume producers. I admire them, but don't want the high pressure that producing that volume would add to my life. If I wanted that I would be working in the corporate world.
lisa, you're not doing too badly yourself. i know your credentials, and if i could even be a 3rd of where you are now after a few years, i would be a happy camper.
but you are right when you say it would be more rewarding working in the corporate world if you take into consideration time vs remuneration.
as always, good to read your input. btw, still no delivery on that new canon, huh?
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Hi there SJ,
Are you asking me questions? I can't tell from your writing I am a bit confused. I believe I already stated that I would not be using the term " Haters " anymore. I probably use to much slang in life in general and since this is a public forum and world wide I think it is better to use only the Kings English from here out.
I don't even understand you second line but I must say that I would love to know what you are talking about. Is it a criticism of some kind. I have been in Micro for over a year doing very extensive testing and talking directly with the company owners before investing. I have uploaded 1500 images now and have 2000 standing by waiting to see where to place them now that I have completed our first stage of testing.
You appear to seem to think that Micro is some completely different animal and that Macro shooters just have a hard time understanding it. It is about producing images the buyer needs and how to do it in the most proficient manner, or at least that's how I understand it. I would appreciate it if you would share what it is I have yet to learn in the stock business that you are aware of to substantiate such a statement. On the other hand I don't want to make this a wrestling match. I am only interested in being educated and educating others.
I believe you once told me you would never help a competing photographer get better or share any information that might improve their career. Like I said in another post, all of us have their way of running their business and their style might not be for everyone. It doesn't make what they do bad, just different.
I spend most of my time on this site trying to share what I know to make it easier for everyone and also to stop disinformation from being spread. But that is what I get out of this place, that is my buzz. Others have completely different reasons for being here and that is cool to. I find it far more fascinating to talk shop rather than correct people but when you see disinformation about someone you know personally like Ron Chapple I think most people that have actually spoken with the man and know him personally would see him through different eyes. If someone told me you were a hack of a photographer and you only want to take from everyone to make yourself rich and crush the competition I would definitely come to your aid about the remark of you being a hack. You are a very good shooter.
Best,
AVAVA
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Oh I get it now. You are referring to my meeting with one of the owners of a Micro agency. Well they were in town and called to ask if there was any feed back they could get from me about their distribution and company from a providers point of view and wanted to have coffee. I said I would be happy to offer any advice I could. It might be that because I have been a top producer in stock that they realize I might have something relevant to offer.
They also know that I am owner in two Macro agencies so maybe they want to speak about the business end of their company. I have helped build a successful stock company before Micro was even cutting teeth.
I will not know until they ask me but I will do my best to present the feelings and concerns I hear from all of you. I see it as a great opportunity to communicate with the company and work out some of the wrinkles. I have met with other stock owners all the way up to Getty. Yes I have spoken with Jonathan Klien as well. These guys want to work with their providers and find a formula that will work with all the changes taking place. They speak to tons of producers there is a great deal of communication within this industry and it is not all closed door meetings trying to gain a better spot in the industry for just ourselves as a matter of fact that topic for me has never come up in one of these meetings.
Good Luck,
AVAVA
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Lisa,
I think you are doing great! 1000 images a year is a great work ethic and one that should pay off with time. You keep up the hard work.
Best,
AVAVA
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Very interesting article. I have to admit to feeling somewhat threatened by the high volume producers. As someone who has been doing this full-time for a couple of years, I don't know how long I will be able to compete.
On the up side, my production costs are extremely low, so much of what I earn is profit. While I am quite willing to improve my equipment and skills to keep my image quality rising, I am not interested in expanding to a paid staff.
Lisa, I often feel the same way and have for many years now. I watch, and admire the production companies as they produce huge volumes of material and wonder why I don't do the same thing. However I don't do all that badly in the end. Like you, my expenses are very low and I'm sure these same companies would salivate all over my expense sheets. I leave the business sitting when I feel like it and go off and enjoy life for a while. This would be difficult to do when you have to keep several bodies busy. I think it suits some personalities very well, just not me, not at this time anyways.
Peter
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Peter,
Well said sir. It is not for everyone and you can start to really burn out. If I take a day off that means I am paying a staff for my time off as well. If I go on a family holiday do you know how much it costs me. Freedom for living life is a great asset and should never be over looked. Some people are just built that way. Do what fits you best and most of all be happy with life it is so short.
Best,
AVAVA
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PDN kind of misunderstood my point with the stereotypes, and my numbers and think I am Dutch... (Im a purebread Dane (Danish), not Dutch or Russian)...Hmmm
Hope they will get it right next time around.
Interesting reading.
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PDN kind of misunderstood my point with the stereotypes, and my numbers and think I am Dutch... (Im a purebread Dane (Danish), not Dutch or Russian)...Hmmm
Yuri,
I was wondering when the Dutch thing would come up. You know, one of those D countries. Was that Deutschland? I have a friend who never reads PDN saying they never get anything right. Maybe he's right.
Peter
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I was wondering when the Dutch thing would come up. You know, one of those D countries. Was that Deutschland?
Well at least Denmark starts with a D too, it is flat, the language is based on Saxon, it borders to Germany too, it's on a sea, and they have problems with some of their muslim immigrants, like Holland, and there is something rotten in both states. The statement is quite accurate considering that there are rumors that a recent vice-presidential candidate thought that Africa was a country ;D
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but neither is Deutschland dutch ! ;D
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Yuri, stop lying, if they say you are dutch, i believe them! :o ;D