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Author Topic: Percentage of earnings in the various agencies  (Read 7707 times)

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« on: April 15, 2014, 11:07 »
0
Hi,
It would be interesting to see the percentage of the earnings of some of you in the various agencies!?

Thank you.


« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2014, 11:08 »
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« Last Edit: May 11, 2014, 21:56 by tickstock »

Ron

« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2014, 11:09 »
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What are your percentages ?

steheap

  • Author of best selling "Get Started in Stock"

« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2014, 11:10 »
+1
I'll show you mine if you show me yours...

Anyway, to break the ice, I already posted mine in a different thread recently: http://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/one-year-on-a-stock-photography-experiment/msg374872/?topicseen#new

Steve

« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2014, 11:17 »
0
I'll play along:

CLO- 30%
MSV- 16%
SS- 15%
TV- 11%
DT- 10%
CanStockPhoto- 6%
GL- 4%

And everything else makes up the rest.

lisafx

« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2014, 11:44 »
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+1 for Tickstock. The poll is the best place to get that info. Results are shown to the right of the forum threads ->

Beppe Grillo

« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2014, 12:08 »
+2
+1 for Tickstock. The poll is the best place to get that info. Results are shown to the right of the forum threads ->

The right column does not give a result in percentage, it gives a result in "something" not understandable by the common of mortals

« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2014, 12:13 »
+1
I am exclusive to iStockphoto and think about the termination of the contract.

« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2014, 12:14 »
+1
.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2014, 21:56 by tickstock »

« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2014, 12:20 »
+2
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« Last Edit: May 11, 2014, 21:57 by tickstock »

« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2014, 12:49 »
+1
5...4...3...2...1...

« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2014, 13:06 »
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I am exclusive to iStockphoto and think about the termination of the contract.
I'm not sure how knowing the average % per site will help you with your decision.  If you look at the poll the average nonexclusive contributor here (who contributes to 20 sites) makes about $1080 while the average exclusive here makes $1540.  Also, according to the poll exclusives make almost 9 times more at iStock than they do as nonexclusives.
Yes, I know it's difficult to make the right decision, but the situation in Istockphoto from month to month is worse and the termination of exclusivity all closer.

« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2014, 13:11 »
+4
Also, according to the poll exclusives make almost 9 times more at iStock than they do as nonexclusives.

No. According to the poll exclusivity has a 9 times higher number as non-exclusivity when it comes to iStock earnings. It's not a direct comparison of the same portfolio. It's just two different sets of people reporting those numbers.

« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2014, 13:15 »
-1
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« Last Edit: May 11, 2014, 21:56 by tickstock »

« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2014, 13:25 »
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SS - 76%
123 - 6%
FT - 5%
DT 4%

« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2014, 13:32 »
+2
That's true.  I should have said according to the poll the average exclusive member on this site who fills out the poll does about 9 times better than the average nonexclusive contributor who fills out the poll.  But if you look at the royalty rate and credits per dl difference you would expect that kind of drop.  Also if you look at what a lot of exclusives have said when they left you get a similar picture.

No, that's not what I've read before I made my own decision. Nor is it what I experienced. It's more like a drop by about 75-80% (so 4:1 or 5:1 if you want to express is that way), and part of that is being compensated by the Partner Program which actually becomes an interesting addition to the base royalties once you got used to the lower pays everywhere.

I am currently making about 50% from iStock including the partner program from what I did in 2012 as an exclusive - but only 25% of what I've made in my better years. Everyone is different, though.

« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2014, 13:42 »
+2
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« Last Edit: May 11, 2014, 21:57 by tickstock »


Beppe Grillo

« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2014, 14:51 »
+2
+1 for Tickstock. The poll is the best place to get that info. Results are shown to the right of the forum threads ->

The right column does not give a result in percentage, it gives a result in "something" not understandable by the common of mortals
It does give a percentage.  If you submit only to Shutterstock the percentage would be 84.2 out of a total 84.2 or 100%.  If you contribute to SS and IS the average percentage for SS would be 84.2 out of (84.2 +35.3) or about 70.5%.  The average contributor here who answered the poll for those two sites makes 70.5% from SS and 29.5% from IS.

I am a photographer, not a mathematician or a specialist in statistics :)

For me a % is a part of a whole (100%).
The whole (100%) is the sum of all the considered elements.

Beyond this I am not able to understand
SS represent 52.97% of my total earnings on the sites where I submit. Alamy 14.84%, iStock 10.69, etc. The sum of the various % that I get for each site is 100%.
These are clear and understandable figure for me.

« Last Edit: April 15, 2014, 14:59 by Beppe Grillo »

lisafx

« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2014, 16:38 »
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Just to play devil's advocate, if I was exclusive and my income was 9 times my current indie Istock income, that would be a 71% increase over what I actually made as an indie for March. 

Not sure if that number can be taken as accurate, but either way, I feel kind of queasy thinking about it. 

« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2014, 16:51 »
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.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2014, 21:57 by tickstock »

lisafx

« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2014, 17:03 »
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Just to play devil's advocate, if I was exclusive and my income was 9 times my current indie Istock income, that would be a 71% increase over what I actually made as an indie for March. 

Not sure if that number can be taken as accurate, but either way, I feel kind of queasy thinking about it.
I think it's possible.  Right now it's probably a bigger loss for exclusives leaving than a gain for nonexclusives becoming exclusive.   You wouldn't get too many files into S+ or Vetta now but you would lose all those if you quit exclusivity.  On the other hand if you like the partner program you could keep your whole portfolio in there (or take it out if you don't like it).

I'm sure you're right.  I wouldn't dream of becoming exclusive now for the myriad reasons I've posted over the last couple of years, but it is shocking to contemplate the amount of money I may have lost in the past 5 years or so by not going exclusive when it seemed like a more appealing idea. 

I have never been comfortable with the all eggs in one basket concept and I have far too weak a stomach for the amount of constant change and flux at Istock, but if these figures are remotely accurate I wonder how much it's cost me. 

I guess if I was still satisfied with my income and hadn't seen drops over the last three years I wouldn't be giving this any thought at all.  And since I can't change the past and have no intention of becoming exclusive now (unless there was a sweetheart deal, a la Yuri or Andres - and they aren't handing those out to most of us) there's no point in spending much time ruminating about it....

« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2014, 17:14 »
0
Hi,
It would be interesting to see the percentage of the earnings of some of you in the various agencies!?

Thank you.
Can we see a portfolio??? In some cases going indie is not the right decision...

« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2014, 17:18 »
0
Just to play devil's advocate, if I was exclusive and my income was 9 times my current indie Istock income, that would be a 71% increase over what I actually made as an indie for March. 

Not sure if that number can be taken as accurate, but either way, I feel kind of queasy thinking about it.
I think it's possible.  Right now it's probably a bigger loss for exclusives leaving than a gain for nonexclusives becoming exclusive.   You wouldn't get too many files into S+ or Vetta now but you would lose all those if you quit exclusivity.  On the other hand if you like the partner program you could keep your whole portfolio in there (or take it out if you don't like it).

I'm sure you're right.  I wouldn't dream of becoming exclusive now for the myriad reasons I've posted over the last couple of years, but it is shocking to contemplate the amount of money I may have lost in the past 5 years or so by not going exclusive when it seemed like a more appealing idea. 

I have never been comfortable with the all eggs in one basket concept and I have far too weak a stomach for the amount of constant change and flux at Istock, but if these figures are remotely accurate I wonder how much it's cost me. 

I guess if I was still satisfied with my income and hadn't seen drops over the last three years I wouldn't be giving this any thought at all.  And since I can't change the past and have no intention of becoming exclusive now (unless there was a sweetheart deal, a la Yuri or Andres - and they aren't handing those out to most of us) there's no point in spending much time ruminating about it....

you can always contact them to see what they have to offer you

« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2014, 17:47 »
+3
but it is shocking to contemplate the amount of money I may have lost in the past 5 years or so

By that logic, you've lost MILLIONS by not winning the lottery!  ;)

« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2014, 18:09 »
0
Just to play devil's advocate, if I was exclusive and my income was 9 times my current indie Istock income, that would be a 71% increase over what I actually made as an indie for March. 

Not sure if that number can be taken as accurate, but either way, I feel kind of queasy thinking about it.

It seems unlikely that you'd get an increase that large. It would be a huge gamble to bet on too.

lisafx

« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2014, 18:36 »
0
Just to play devil's advocate, if I was exclusive and my income was 9 times my current indie Istock income, that would be a 71% increase over what I actually made as an indie for March. 

Not sure if that number can be taken as accurate, but either way, I feel kind of queasy thinking about it.

It seems unlikely that you'd get an increase that large. It would be a huge gamble to bet on too.

Oh no, I'm not taking that bet.  I was just playing around with the quoted numbers and surprised by the results. 

I think I'd be better off trying Elvinstar's suggestion and playing the lottery ;D

« Reply #26 on: April 15, 2014, 23:52 »
+2
2012 didn't have GI sales.   For me that alone would cut more than 25% of my income.  If I were going to drop exclusivity now I would guess the loss would be 90-95% of my income.  I think if you only had a 25% drop in iStock income you are doing much better than most.

What? My GI Sales started in 2011 with the Vetta files moved over at the beginning of that year. E+ came later in addition. Though, I never sold a lot through GI Sales nor did I have a lot of Vetta files. So that certainly explained why my earnings did not drop as much as for many others who heavily rely on those higher priced collections at iStock.

I always said that dropping iStock exclusivity shouldn't mean to upload all your images to microstock. At iStock you have a lot of midstock priced sales, so you need to find a midstock or macrostock agency to replace those.

Today I am making more from Stocksy and my macrostock images than I ever did from Vetta.


« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2014, 06:06 »
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FWIW, someone I know with similar portfolio to mine is now making more per image per month than I am on iStock.

« Reply #28 on: April 16, 2014, 06:44 »
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To really compare indie to exclusive earnings you need to add income from the macros you will be supplying to and symbiostock or your own webshop.

if you already have an indepedent contract with Getty or have applied with other macro agencies or stocksy or offset, that will make a big difference to your overall income.

The biggest change is the freedom to decide yourself at which price point your images should be sold.

I don't think it is very wise to just "upload everything everywhere"

For me SS and Fotolia are the most important micros in addition to istock. I certainly wish I had uploaded much earlier to SS than I did.

Pond5 is very good for video and my photo sales are also increasing there.

The most interesting agency is stocksy, but at the moment it is hard to get in. And I still don't have results from the other macros, bevause I just started out with Westend and it takes time for files to be distributed and then even longer for sales results to trickle back.

But there are many macro sites and edited collections...plainpictures,tetra,blend...I would take a look around, see what you can supply and talk to the ones that interest you.

And then of course there is symbiostock and selling direct via your own website.

If you are indie there are so many options, it takes tome to test them and find what mix works for you, but you will defiently be a lot safer because your risk is spread over several different agencies and business models.

Good luck with your journey.

And maybe if more people leave istock will offer a third path of exclusive images like Getty has. On Fotolia many german artists are giving fotolia exclusive series, often of the regional German content. That seems to raise the overall visibility of the portfolio and of course brings in more money.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2014, 06:49 by cobalt »

« Reply #29 on: April 16, 2014, 06:44 »
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« Last Edit: May 11, 2014, 21:56 by tickstock »

« Reply #30 on: April 16, 2014, 07:59 »
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FWIW, someone I know with similar portfolio to mine is now making more per image per month than I am on iStock.
Are you counting mirrored GI sales in that?  Are they just on the micros?

Yes and yes.

The problem with going independent is getting out of the 80%+ income drop trough, not that income can't be replaced as far as I can tell from talking to people whose experience I respect. That takes quite some time and a huge amount of work, but it looks like it can be done.

I was hopeful that GI sales would make up for the crash in iStock exclusive downloads but the killing of the E+ programme prevented that. It appears that the GI best match is heavily weighted towards new images so a portfolio that can't be added to sinks heavily quite quickly. My returns from GI have dropped to 20% of what they were because of this I think.

« Reply #31 on: April 16, 2014, 08:10 »
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« Last Edit: May 11, 2014, 21:56 by tickstock »

« Reply #32 on: April 16, 2014, 08:25 »
+1
FWIW, someone I know with similar portfolio to mine is now making more per image per month than I am on iStock.
Are you counting mirrored GI sales in that?  Are they just on the micros?

Yes and yes.

The problem with going independent is getting out of the 80%+ income drop trough, not that income can't be replaced as far as I can tell from talking to people whose experience I respect. That takes quite some time and a huge amount of work, but it looks like it can be done.

I was hopeful that GI sales would make up for the crash in iStock exclusive downloads but the killing of the E+ programme prevented that. It appears that the GI best match is heavily weighted towards new images so a portfolio that can't be added to sinks heavily quite quickly. My returns from GI have dropped to 20% of what they were because of this I think.
The 80%+ part is what worries me (not to mention all the extra work and having the same kinds of problems on all the other sites you get with iStock).  If you are that far down for a year or two before you get back your income would you be better off or how long would it take to be better off?  I'm assuming that most of the income comes from SS which heavily favors new images, does that income start to drop off after those first two years?  I guess you aren't totally convinced it's worth dropping exclusivity yet?

I think that unless iStock starts to value their exclusive content and contributors in a way that suggest they want to keep them it'll be a moot point since the returns will drop to levels that make independence financially necessary.

I don't know why they don't realise that their exclusive content is the single remaining factor that separates them from every other agency, some of whom do some things much better, like video at Pond5 and subs at SS. Why would new buyers choose them if that additional content wasn't there?


 

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