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Author Topic: Photographing our children for stock/money ?  (Read 25835 times)

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« Reply #75 on: July 06, 2011, 10:41 »
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Maybe if everyone else stops photographing children, my photos will sell better!  :D

thats the all point of this topic perhaps :P


Shank_ali

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« Reply #76 on: July 06, 2011, 12:40 »
0
The stock agencies love images of children.Designers love images of children.Good money can be made from shooting children.If you need the money you take photographs of your children  ::)
I believe you can make money from other sources.That's really the point i'm trying to make !
You seriously talk some crap sometimes Shank. Most kids I know would much rather stand in front of a camera, than mow the lawn, wash the dishes, make beds, or do a paper round but you go ahead save some money, make your kids do the chores instead of employing somebody else to do it.
What is an hour or two here and there getting your photos taken when it means better holidays, and a better lifestyle in general?
Oh i see where your coming from now.You bribe the kids to pose by giving them no chores that week.If the image sells they get a nice holiday and a better lifestyle.
Lets hope a child can still flourish without having a camera following him/her growing up !

« Reply #77 on: July 06, 2011, 16:14 »
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A few posts were removed for deviating back to a religious debate.

« Reply #78 on: July 06, 2011, 17:29 »
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Leaf, I think you might close this topic as well, it seems to be moving in circles.

« Reply #79 on: July 06, 2011, 17:52 »
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Leaf, I think you might close this topic as well, it seems to be moving in circles.

well it is certainly getting very close :)

TheSmilingAssassin

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« Reply #80 on: July 06, 2011, 23:14 »
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I've only read the first page cause I'm pressed for time but personally, I would never sell photos of my [hypothetical] kids unless they were old enough to make rational decisions themselves.  There are just too many sickos online and the thought of some paedo getting off over an image of my child wouldn't sit too well with me.  Also a child's personality isn't developed at a young age so you have no idea how they're going to feel about it as adults.  It's not something they can reverse if they don't like it.  I was a really flamboyant kid... a real show off growing up but I've turned into a very private person.  I don't share personal details of my life or family online, on facebook or anywhere.  I'd hate to have posted my kids photos online if they grow up and turn out to be like me.  They would hate it and there would be nothing they can do about it.

That's my view on the subject.  Just like circumcision, it can't be reversed as adults if they don't like it (sorry I couldn't resist going off topic :D)

Shank_ali

    This user is banned.
« Reply #81 on: July 07, 2011, 01:03 »
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Thanks for all the comments.I'm still of the opinion it is to easy an option to photograph our children for microstock.
Until the next time....

« Reply #82 on: July 07, 2011, 07:06 »
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'There are just too many sickos online and the thought of some paedo getting off over an image of my child wouldn't sit too well with me.'

There are a trillion images of kids all over the Internet if someone were so inclined.  I'm not sure how a properly composed, exposed and dressed stock image would be any more applicable to this than any other image.


'Also a child's personality isn't developed at a young age so you have no idea how they're going to feel about it as adults.  It's not something they can reverse if they don't like it.'

Reverse what?  It's unlikely they look the same any more.  No one would know unless you told them.  What else?  'Gee, I wish I didn't take that hour out of my life every few months that I had a great time modeling for pictures that has paid for my college degree...'?

TheSmilingAssassin

    This user is banned.
« Reply #83 on: July 07, 2011, 07:47 »
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'There are just too many sickos online and the thought of some paedo getting off over an image of my child wouldn't sit too well with me.'

There are a trillion images of kids all over the Internet if someone were so inclined.  I'm not sure how a properly composed, exposed and dressed stock image would be any more applicable to this than any other image.


'Also a child's personality isn't developed at a young age so you have no idea how they're going to feel about it as adults.  It's not something they can reverse if they don't like it.'

Reverse what?  It's unlikely they look the same any more.  No one would know unless you told them.  What else?  'Gee, I wish I didn't take that hour out of my life every few months that I had a great time modeling for pictures that has paid for my college degree...'?


That's cool that there's a trillion pics of kids on the net as long as there's zero pics of my [hypothetical] kids on there. 

How would you know that no one will know unless you told them?  What if this was your daughter... I didn't check the photographer so it'll be really funny if it actually is!

http://www.istockphoto.com/stock-photo-12761377-toothless-grin.php?st=12efd71

What if this image ended up on signage for a dental ad and remained on a building for 20 years.  Say your daughter's now constantly reminded... "HEY THAT'S YOU HAHAHAHAHA".  Everyone tells everyone else and your poor daughter, who's now 22, has a very serious nature about her, is considering a career in politics, is stuck with that image for life... and no one ever takes her seriously because of it.  Now did the few bucks you saved selling that image that went towards her college degree actually help her in life or did it scar her for life? 

I'm not saying you're a bad parent for doing it or that it's wrong.  I'm saying that it could be wrong and you won't know until she grows up.  If she turns around and calls you an A-hole for ruining her life and writes you off you'll know it was wrong.  On the other hand she might love you for making her childhood fun.  My point is, you won't know... it all depends one what kind of person she turns out to be.  She might turn to you and say "if you want to make a fool of someone for a lousy dollar on a photo, you should have taken some of yourself and spared me the lifelong embarrassment."

I tell you what, if that toothless kid was me and it was all over the net, in magazines or on billboards, I would be pissed off and bitter with my parents for doing it... to the point where I would consider them selfish.  It doesn't matter how nutty I was as a kid.  As an adult I'm a private person and wouldn't want crap like that of me on the net or anywhere.  Of course that's just my opinion but the whole point is that your kids may grow up and adopt my opinion over yours and hate your for it.


TheSmilingAssassin

    This user is banned.
« Reply #85 on: July 07, 2011, 11:09 »
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So you are anonymous and childless yet you feel we should take your opinions seriously on this matter? 

You think a photo of a child making a goofy expression will scar him or her for life?  I happen to believe that childhood molds a person and helps create who they will be as an adult.  If you weren't encouraged to be silly as a kid it's possible you could end up a private person and feel compelled to post anonymously in forums and express opinions on subjects that don't apply to you at all.  I do not want that for my kids.

Instead, I set up photo shoots and encourage them to let loose and not be self conscious.  I see it increase their self confidence.  They take great pride in giving just the right pose for me and they do a pretty good job of it too.

The opinion of parents of "hypothetical" children really don't hold a lot of weight with me when it comes to how I raise my own children. 

Mat

So because you have your name displayed and an icon of some guy being stomped on his head, your opinion on this subject is valid and mine isn't?  Your name, real or not real, means nothing to me.  You're still someone I don't know... don't want to know.  This isn't a question about photography really, this is an ethical question about kids and anyone can have an opinion on it.  If I typed "hypothetical" it's because it's none of your business whether I have kids or not.  I have an anonymous ID here but most people know my portfolio and that's all they need to know.  I use a different name because I don't want my buyers typing in my username in google only to find a bunch of spew that comes out of this forum... I'd rather they find my images.

I personally find it not only horrible that people put up photos of their kids on the net in general but when they do it to make money out of it, I find it disgusting... sorry but I do, and I'm not alone on this.  Outside of the photography community, you'll find this feeling is common.   You can justify it all you like...  a confidence booster?  Come off it, if it's for that reason, snap a pic and put it in a photo album.  Must you sell it?  You're doing it for profit, not to benefit your child.  If you can't even admit that, then your opinion is worthless to me as much as mine is to you.  At least I'm not lying to myself as you are. 

Also there is no correlation between privacy and confidence.  I'm private as hell on the net and confident and open as hell in person.  The internet is a crappy place full of psychos.  Do you really need to be convinced of this?  Yet you subject your own children to it... for a lousy bloody dollar.. or worse, a subscription payment of $0.30.  Great parenting! 

This is a forum.  If you don't like my opinion, stiff crap.  Get over it :)

« Reply #86 on: July 07, 2011, 11:24 »
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'You're doing it for profit, not to benefit your child.'

You're under the mistaken impression those are mutually exclusive.

« Reply #87 on: July 07, 2011, 11:33 »
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What if this image ended up on signage for a dental ad and remained on a building for 20 years.  Say your daughter's now constantly reminded... "HEY THAT'S YOU HAHAHAHAHA".  Everyone tells everyone else and your poor daughter, who's now 22, has a very serious nature about her, is considering a career in politics, is stuck with that image for life... and no one ever takes her seriously because of it.  Now did the few bucks you saved selling that image that went towards her college degree actually help her in life or did it scar her for life? 
Oh come on every kid that I ever went to school with had a class photo taken every year including the year that they had no front teeth.  Every other kid in the class had a copy which could be brought out in later years to embarrass them.  Why is that any different?
The sort of kid that happily models isn't likely to grow up to be an introverted private person that gives a toss about that sort of thing.

TheSmilingAssassin

    This user is banned.
« Reply #88 on: July 07, 2011, 11:57 »
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'You're doing it for profit, not to benefit your child.'

You're under the mistaken impression those are mutually exclusive.

They are mutually exclusive.  As you said earlier, there are "trillions" of pics of kids on the net.  Do we really need more?  And must you take pics of your OWN kids?  Aren't there other subjects you could cover to replace the income from kids' photos?  Of course there are.  You take photos of your kids because they're easier to take, they're available... always... and they're free.  If you took photos of a subject that was less saturated and therefore more likely to sell, your kids would probably benefit even more from it because 1) you made more money and 2) you didn't exploit and possibly make their future tougher.  Why not take a photo of yourself pulling a face and making a complete dick of yourself for a dollar?  Sean, colour some teeth of yours black and pull that face in the link above and take a photo of yourself to sell as stock, would you do it?   As an adult and a businessman, do you not portray yourself in a certain way?  Do you not command some respect in your professional career?  Maybe your children will want the same for themselves when they grow up and not want some clownass pictures following them around all their lives.

I would be furious with my parents if they did to me what you people (or some of you) do to your children.  Let's hope your kids aren't furious with you when they grow up to be adults.

This isn't so much a question about whether sharing a photo makes you a bad parent.  It's about a good portion of the world on the internet that's watching are sickos and it's because we live in a society that judges others heavily based on image that I don't think it's right to put those photos out there because they are out there forever.

You may be arguing here to justify you doing it because it's profitable but I reckon, deep down inside, you all feel a little guilty using your kids like that.  Right?  I'm sure you won't admit it because then you would have to stop, but I reckon I'm right.

Good night :)

TheSmilingAssassin

    This user is banned.
« Reply #89 on: July 07, 2011, 12:01 »
0




What if this image ended up on signage for a dental ad and remained on a building for 20 years.  Say your daughter's now constantly reminded... "HEY THAT'S YOU HAHAHAHAHA".  Everyone tells everyone else and your poor daughter, who's now 22, has a very serious nature about her, is considering a career in politics, is stuck with that image for life... and no one ever takes her seriously because of it.  Now did the few bucks you saved selling that image that went towards her college degree actually help her in life or did it scar her for life? 
Oh come on every kid that I ever went to school with had a class photo taken every year including the year that they had no front teeth.  Every other kid in the class had a copy which could be brought out in later years to embarrass them.  Why is that any different?
The sort of kid that happily models isn't likely to grow up to be an introverted private person that gives a toss about that sort of thing.

And how do you know how your kids will turn out.  Being private on the internet has nothing to do with being introverted.  I'm extroverted but I won't share ANYTHING personal with you people because... what need is there for me to do so on the net?

lol are you really going to sit there and compare school photos shared between classmates to thousands of stock photos that are shared over the world with strangers... forever?  You're not, right?

« Reply #90 on: July 07, 2011, 12:15 »
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A little twist...

I receive guff over "making money" from photos of my blind and disabled daughter all too frequently.  Never mind that she's an adult, makes her own decisions, and decided she wants to provide clients and agencies with images of a real blind and disabled person for their publications.  For whatever reason, some folks think because she's disabled it means she can't possibly look out for her own best interests, so therefore think I'm exerting total control over her as mom and photographer and exploiting her for financial gain.  Nothing could be further from the truth.

I guess I could always pay an able-bodied model who can also be hired for all kinds of shoots to fake being blind and disabled instead, so I'm not "exploiting" a real blind and disabled person who really wants to earn a living instead of living off of Social Security.   And then I can train the able-bodied model to mimic the subtleties of being blind or disabled that took my daughter and me almost 30 years to learn and adapt to.  And then I can go on to license zero images of my fake blind and disabled person, because savvy buyers recognize authenticity vs. BS when they see it.  ::)   

« Reply #91 on: July 07, 2011, 12:29 »
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'You take photos of your kids because they're easier to take, they're available... always... and they're free. '

Lol, easy!  It takes even more prep and direction and control.  And most of us already said they are compensated in some way.

Sorry, but your ranting doesn't hold.


« Reply #92 on: July 07, 2011, 12:40 »
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So because you have your name displayed and an icon of some guy being stomped on his head, your opinion on this subject is valid and mine isn't?  

YES

Your name, real or not real, means nothing to me.  

IT SHOULD

You're still someone I don't know... don't want to know.  

MY FEELINGS ARE HURT BY THIS STATEMENT.  I'M REALLY AN INTERESTING PERSON.


This isn't a question about photography really,

YES IT IS.

this is an ethical question about kids

NO IT ISN'T.

and anyone can have an opinion on it.  

NO THEY CAN'T.

If I typed "hypothetical"

YOU DID. 

it's because it's none of your business whether I have kids or not.

YES IT IS.

 I have an anonymous ID here but most people know my portfolio and that's all they need to know.

I DON'T.  WILL YOU POST A LINK PLEASE.  I AM GENUINELY CURIOUS.

 I use a different name because I don't want my buyers typing in my username in google only to find a bunch of spew that comes out of this forum... I'd rather they find my images.

IF I WERE MAKING POSTS AS RIDICULOUS AND IGNORANT AS YOURS I WOULD FEEL THE SAME WAY.

I personally find it not only horrible that people put up photos of their kids on the net in general but when they do it to make money out of it,

SHOULD I PUT PHOTOS OF MY KIDS ON THE NET AND NOT MAKE MONEY OUT OF IT?  I DO THAT ON FACEBOOK.  MY MOM LOVES TO SEE PHOTOS OF HER GRANDCHILDREN.  WE JUST DON'T GET DOWN TO SEE HER NEARLY AS OFTEN AS WE SHOULD.  

 I find it disgusting... sorry but I do,

I FIND STEPPING ON SLUGS WITH MY BARE FEET DISGUSTING.  THIS HAPPENED OVER THE FOURTH OF JULY WHEN WE WERE CAMPING (YES I TOOK PICTURES OF MY KIDS AND WILL BE SELLING THEM!)  STILL NOT OVER THE SLUG INCIDENT.  THAT IS REALLY DISGUSTING!

and I'm not alone on this.

YES YOU ARE.

 Outside of the photography community, you'll find this feeling is common.  

I WASN'T AWARE THERE WAS ANYONE OUTSIDE THE PHOTOGRAPHY COMMUNITY.  YOU CAN'T GO TO THE GROCERY STORE WITHOUT SEEING AN AD FEATURING A CHILD SELLING AN ICE CREAM SANDWICH OR A BRAND OF PEANUT BUTTER.

You can justify it all you like

THANK YOU.

...  a confidence booster?  Come off it, if it's for that reason, snap a pic and put it in a photo album.  

OK.

Must you sell it?  

IF APPROVED..YES, I MUST.

You're doing it for profit, not to benefit your child.

I CAN'T DO BOTH?

 If you can't even admit that, then your opinion is worthless to me as much as mine is to you.

THAT IS SAD.

 At least I'm not lying to myself as you are.  

I'M NOT LYING TO MYSELF.  WELL, I DO LIKE TO THINK IF I GREW MY HAIR OUT IT WOULD BE THICKER THAN IT PROBABLY WOULD BE.  PLUS I STILL KEEP JEANS IN MY CLOSET ABOUT 4 SIZES TOO SMALL THINKING THAT I'LL FIT INTO THEM AGAIN.  

Also there is no correlation between privacy and confidence.

YES THERE IS.

 I'm private as hell on the net and confident and open as hell in person.

NO YOU AREN'T.

  The internet is a crappy place full of psychos.  

THE INTERNET IS A WONDERFUL PLACE FULL OF PSYCHOS.

Do you really need to be convinced of this?

NO THANK YOU.

Yet you subject your own children to it... for a lousy bloody dollar.. or worse, a subscription payment of $0.30.  

I MADE MORE THAN THIRTY CENTS OFF PICTURES OF MY KIDS THIS MONTH ALREADY IF YOU CAN BELIEVE THAT!

Great parenting!

THANK YOU.

This is a forum.

YOU ARE CORRECT.

 If you don't like my opinion,

I DON'T.

stiff crap.

IS THAT KIND OF LIKE SAYING "TOUGH crap" ONLY BRITISH?

Get over it

OVER IT.

 :)

:(

« Reply #93 on: July 07, 2011, 12:53 »
0
Pseudo, are you really one of the Olsen twins? ;)

TheSmilingAssassin

    This user is banned.
« Reply #94 on: July 07, 2011, 13:01 »
0
'You take photos of your kids because they're easier to take, they're available... always... and they're free. '

Lol, easy!  It takes even more prep and direction and control.  And most of us already said they are compensated in some way.

Sorry, but your ranting doesn't hold.

Are you saying that shooting your kids is harder than shooting other kids?  Come on, they live with you, they're available, you don't have to organise anything with parents, you can don't have to worry about paperwork, picking them up, dropping them off or whatever.  You don't have to pay them.  Of course it's easier.  Sorry but your rant doesn't hold either.  This is a sore spot for you.  You don't like people reminding you that what you're doing to your own kids is wrong.  You're happy being ignorant about it as long as it fills those pockets.

TheSmilingAssassin

    This user is banned.
« Reply #95 on: July 07, 2011, 13:03 »
0

So because you have your name displayed and an icon of some guy being stomped on his head, your opinion on this subject is valid and mine isn't?  

YES

Your name, real or not real, means nothing to me.  

IT SHOULD

You're still someone I don't know... don't want to know.  

MY FEELINGS ARE HURT BY THIS STATEMENT.  I'M REALLY AN INTERESTING PERSON.


This isn't a question about photography really,

YES IT IS.

this is an ethical question about kids

NO IT ISN'T.

and anyone can have an opinion on it.  

NO THEY CAN'T.

If I typed "hypothetical"

YOU DID. 

it's because it's none of your business whether I have kids or not.

YES IT IS.

 I have an anonymous ID here but most people know my portfolio and that's all they need to know.

I DON'T.  WILL YOU POST A LINK PLEASE.  I AM GENUINELY CURIOUS.

 I use a different name because I don't want my buyers typing in my username in google only to find a bunch of spew that comes out of this forum... I'd rather they find my images.

IF I WERE MAKING POSTS AS RIDICULOUS AND IGNORANT AS YOURS I WOULD FEEL THE SAME WAY.

I personally find it not only horrible that people put up photos of their kids on the net in general but when they do it to make money out of it,

SHOULD I PUT PHOTOS OF MY KIDS ON THE NET AND NOT MAKE MONEY OUT OF IT?  I DO THAT ON FACEBOOK.  MY MOM LOVES TO SEE PHOTOS OF HER GRANDCHILDREN.  WE JUST DON'T GET DOWN TO SEE HER NEARLY AS OFTEN AS WE SHOULD.  

 I find it disgusting... sorry but I do,

I FIND STEPPING ON SLUGS WITH MY BARE FEET DISGUSTING.  THIS HAPPENED OVER THE FOURTH OF JULY WHEN WE WERE CAMPING (YES I TOOK PICTURES OF MY KIDS AND WILL BE SELLING THEM!)  STILL NOT OVER THE SLUG INCIDENT.  THAT IS REALLY DISGUSTING!

and I'm not alone on this.

YES YOU ARE.

 Outside of the photography community, you'll find this feeling is common.  

I WASN'T AWARE THERE WAS ANYONE OUTSIDE THE PHOTOGRAPHY COMMUNITY.  YOU CAN'T GO TO THE GROCERY STORE WITHOUT SEEING AN AD FEATURING A CHILD SELLING AN ICE CREAM SANDWICH OR A BRAND OF PEANUT BUTTER.

You can justify it all you like

THANK YOU.

...  a confidence booster?  Come off it, if it's for that reason, snap a pic and put it in a photo album.  

OK.

Must you sell it?  

IF APPROVED..YES, I MUST.

You're doing it for profit, not to benefit your child.

I CAN'T DO BOTH?

 If you can't even admit that, then your opinion is worthless to me as much as mine is to you.

THAT IS SAD.

 At least I'm not lying to myself as you are.  

I'M NOT LYING TO MYSELF.  WELL, I DO LIKE TO THINK IF I GREW MY HAIR OUT IT WOULD BE THICKER THAN IT PROBABLY WOULD BE.  PLUS I STILL KEEP JEANS IN MY CLOSET ABOUT 4 SIZES TOO SMALL THINKING THAT I'LL FIT INTO THEM AGAIN.  

Also there is no correlation between privacy and confidence.

YES THERE IS.

 I'm private as hell on the net and confident and open as hell in person.

NO YOU AREN'T.

  The internet is a crappy place full of psychos.  

THE INTERNET IS A WONDERFUL PLACE FULL OF PSYCHOS.

Do you really need to be convinced of this?

NO THANK YOU.

Yet you subject your own children to it... for a lousy bloody dollar.. or worse, a subscription payment of $0.30.  

I MADE MORE THAN THIRTY CENTS OFF PICTURES OF MY KIDS THIS MONTH ALREADY IF YOU CAN BELIEVE THAT!

Great parenting!

THANK YOU.

This is a forum.

YOU ARE CORRECT.

 If you don't like my opinion,

I DON'T.

stiff crap.

IS THAT KIND OF LIKE SAYING "TOUGH crap" ONLY BRITISH?

Get over it

OVER IT.

 :)

:(

I'm obviously not going to read this utter rubbish but from the first few lines you seem a little bonkers and I fear that you're possibly one of those people I would want to protect my children from.

TheSmilingAssassin

    This user is banned.
« Reply #96 on: July 07, 2011, 13:06 »
0
Pseudo, are you really one of the Olsen twins? ;)

lol that's funny.  You make a good point but it's in my favour.  I could be one of the olsen twins and scared for life because my crappy parents exploited me the same way you're exploiting your kids ;)

Goodnight!

« Reply #97 on: July 07, 2011, 13:32 »
0
'Are you saying that shooting your kids is harder than shooting other kids?  Come on, they live with you, they're available, you don't have to organise anything with parents, you can don't have to worry about paperwork, picking them up, dropping them off or whatever. '

Yeah, you obviously don't have kids.  To other children, I'm Mr. Locke, the photographer who pays them, so they are 'on the clock' so they have to listen and follow directions.  You own may not take that attitude.  Others come dressed, hair done, attitude ready.  Yours, that's your job.  And organization is just as hard.  You think our kids sit around all day doing nothing? 

Funny stuff.

« Reply #98 on: July 07, 2011, 14:01 »
0
'Are you saying that shooting your kids is harder than shooting other kids?  Come on, they live with you, they're available, you don't have to organise anything with parents, you can don't have to worry about paperwork, picking them up, dropping them off or whatever. '

Yeah, you obviously don't have kids.  To other children, I'm Mr. Locke, the photographer who pays them, so they are 'on the clock' so they have to listen and follow directions.  You own may not take that attitude.  Others come dressed, hair done, attitude ready.  Yours, that's your job.  And organization is just as hard.  You think our kids sit around all day doing nothing? 

Funny stuff.

Beat me to it!  LOL 

You definitely don't have kids!  OMG...every single photo shoot I've done with both of my adult kids has ended up in an argument.  I don't have that problem with other people's kids, big or little or all grown up.  They are always on their best behavior and don't freak out when I tell them what to do.  However, when it's my kids?

My Adult Kid: "I can't believe you criticized me, Mom!" 
Me: "Well, I can't believe you're not grown up enough to be professional about it!  Get over it!" 

Easy...uh huh.

RT


« Reply #99 on: July 07, 2011, 14:15 »
0
.... and I fear that you're possibly one of those people I would want to protect my children from.

You mean your 'hypothetical' children.

I'm sure we'd all love to hear your opinions on shooting pets, but only if you haven't got any.


 

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