Author Topic: Pond5 "exclusive" vs "non-exclusive" (Read 21221 times)

SuperPhoto · « **on:** March 24, 2019, 09:17 »

While most people seem to agree that non-exclusive account is better, there are a few that believe exclusive with Pond5 would be great. While of course it is your decision what you want to do - the expression "Those that don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it" comes to mind... (immediate example is iStock, but there are many other agencies with their "good news!" e-mail broadcasts)...

Again, if you are thinking "soley" exclusive (i.e., Pond5 is your ONLY agency you have content on)...

a) You are placing a lot of trust in putting your livelihood in someone else's hands. Pond5 has just proven they will break that trust - so - there is nothing to stop them from breaking that trust if you go exclusive. 60% - but - maybe once they start getting sales, they'll get greedy - and you'll get another "good news" e-mail from them, telling you you only get 40%, or maybe 30%, due to hyperbole such as "market conditions" or "competition", etc, etc. So don't trust that you will get 60% forever, or even a long time.

b) Expression "don't put all your eggs in one basket" really holds true. Again - you are trusting that they have *your* best interests at heart, they don't. They have theirs. What happens if the relationship goes sour? Then you are screwed - your *one* income source now doesn't exist. Yes, of course at that point you could then scramble and start uploading to other agencies - but it would most likely be incredibly stressful the 1-2 month time period while you go to establish yourself on other agencies.

c) You are not likely to see the 'huge' boost in sales you are hoping. Educated guess - yes - you probably will see a 50%-100% increase in your sales @ 60% because of some additional marketing in this area, that will probably taper off after 5-6 months to about 20-30%. But - does that additional 20-30% increase justify putting all your eggs in one basket, and the income on other sites you will be foregoing?

Going "exclusive" - you are giving Pond5 the power to decide your income. You are letting THEM decide how successful your portfolio is. Be aware of that.

My educated guess is some contributors that have HUGE portfolios/staff/etc (because they are already making $500k+/year) - will create exclusive portfolios and will benefit from that marketing (the cost for them to 'test' out that sales channel will be small because they benefit from their existing current market position, and the marginal cost for them to create 'exclusive' content at the same time is virtually non existant). They'll just churn out a ton of content in addition to the regular content they produce. So you'll be competing with them.

It's your decision if you go exclusive - but - just be aware - IF you will ONLY be producing content to submit to Pond5:
- You are severely reducing your bargaining power.
- Pond5 has already broken the trust moving comissions from 50% to 40%, nothing to prevent them from changing this "shiny" exclusive % to say 50, 40, etc in the future.
- Overall - you are likely to see less income only having one income source, as opposed to taking the time to submit to multiple agencies.

If you do go exclusive, good luck!

tickstock · « **Reply #1 on:** March 24, 2019, 11:17 »

On the flip side. Putting your work on all the sites makes it a commodity with royalties and pricing likely determined by the worst of the bunch. There is a race to the bottom. I know I buy things at the cheapest places, how many people buy video/photo gear from the local camera store (assuming any are still around) and how many buy it from BH or Amazon? I would rather risk it on a company paying 60%. What would happen to the sites paying less if everyone did the same?

SuperPhoto · « **Reply #2 on:** March 24, 2019, 11:33 »

Quote from: tickstock on March 24, 2019, 11:17

On the flip side. Putting your work on all the sites makes it a commodity with royalties and pricing likely determined by the worst of the bunch. There is a race to the bottom. I know I buy things at the cheapest places, how many people buy video/photo gear from the local camera store (assuming any are still around) and how many buy it from BH or Amazon? I would rather risk it on a company paying 60%. What would happen to the sites paying less if everyone did the same?

"Yesssssssss... but..."

Unlike cameras where you simply type in the model number, it's not "as" easy to find an identical clip on multiple sites. (Yes, you could say search for the title - but not every clip has totally unique titles. So "birds flying video" would probably find 1000's).

Also, not everyone shops around. I have purchased images/etc in the past - and when I found a site I liked - I stuck with it. Never occurred to me actually to "shop" around (plus even if I had, it would have been a bit of waste of my time).

I know a lot of other people fall into that boat too - not everyone is looking for the "cheapest" (even if it is identical) - simply because they want it "now" and don't want to waste time trying to see if they can find a cheaper one elsewhere, etc...

Also - these other sites still price the clips competively (i.e., $79/$199 HD/4K). You aren't seeing "huge" price variances (i.e., $1000 on pond 5, and $50 somewhere else)...

tickstock · « **Reply #3 on:** March 24, 2019, 11:39 »

I don't think everyone has to shop around for the impacts to be felt. I bet I'm not alone in shopping at the cheapest place when buying most anything.

swisschocolate · « **Reply #4 on:** March 24, 2019, 11:45 »

Quote from: tickstock on March 24, 2019, 11:17

I know I buy things at the cheapest places

So do the buyers.
I really can't understand it...

"Exclusive" RF asset is more expensive, it is available in only one store and the whole "aura" of exclusivity is so misleading, it is never ever exclusive. What is the benefit of paying more? And still being ready that your competitor will buy the same stuff.

In addition to this, agencies make more money on non-exclusive content. So basically, they use the word "Exclusive" to sell more non-exclusive stuff.

This is what is happening on IS, I can buy a subscription to get non-ex, or I can buy a subscription and get ex+non-ex. So non-ex content has 100% chance to be sold, while ex content has only 50% chance. And in those 50% they will still compete with cheaper non-ex library.
Looking at this closely...

Exclusivity is a pure scam for an artist and a perfect marketing "story" for the agency.

tickstock · « **Reply #5 on:** March 24, 2019, 11:49 »

Quote from: swisschocolate on March 24, 2019, 11:45

Quote from: tickstock on March 24, 2019, 11:17
I know I buy things at the cheapest places

So do the buyers.
I really can't understand it...

"Exclusive" RF asset is more expensive, it is available in only one store and the whole "aura" of exclusivity is so misleading, it is never ever exclusive. What is the benefit of paying more? And still being ready that your competitor will buy the same stuff.

In addition to this, agencies make more money on non-exclusive content. So basically, they use the word "Exclusive" to sell more non-exclusive stuff.

This is what is happening on IS, I can buy a subscription to get non-ex, or I can buy a subscription and get ex+non-ex. So non-ex content has 100% chance to be sold, while ex content has only 50% chance. And in those 50% they will still compete with cheaper non-ex library.
Looking at this closely...

Exclusivity is a pure scam for an artist and a perfect marketing "story" for the agency.

If you produce work that is unique and in demand buyers can't just get a cheaper non-exclusive version. If you are producing nearly the same thing as everyone else then what you say is true. Also you won't be competing against yourself on price.

swisschocolate · « **Reply #6 on:** March 24, 2019, 12:07 »

Quote from: tickstock on March 24, 2019, 11:49

If you produce work that is unique and in demand buyers can't just get a cheaper non-exclusive version. If you are producing nearly the same thing as everyone else then what you say is true. Also you won't be competing against yourself on price.

True. If you work in some other industry maybe...

The nature of stock is a generic, multi-functional content, that can be used in many different situations and by many different customers. It is a strong, but simple message that you "get" in a second. Because marketing and especially "super fast" marketing nowadays, when you have a fraction of a second to show your ad on facebook etc...

What can be THAT unique here?

I'm sure there is "someone". But I can't remember the name of any successful microstock producer who does that mysterious "unique" stuff... And I'm here more than 10 years. Unfortunately, I've never seen anyone like that.

And I'm not sure there is a customer for that. Because "unique" and overly complicated doesn't sell products, so they don't use it in advertising. Visuals of happy people in real life situations do sell products, that's why agencies asking and begging for such content, isn't it?

Unique - is truly exclusive and made by custom request.

Pauws99 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 24, 2019, 12:10 »

Also in stock unless the production costs are prohibitively high not much will be in demand and "unique" for long.

tickstock · « **Reply #8 on:** March 24, 2019, 12:17 »

Quote from: swisschocolate on March 24, 2019, 12:07

Quote from: tickstock on March 24, 2019, 11:49
If you produce work that is unique and in demand buyers can't just get a cheaper non-exclusive version. If you are producing nearly the same thing as everyone else then what you say is true. Also you won't be competing against yourself on price.

True. If you work in some other industry maybe...

The nature of stock is a generic, multi-functional content, that can be used in many different situations and by many different customers. It is a strong, but simple message that you "get" in a second. Because marketing and especially "super fast" marketing nowadays, when you have a fraction of a second to show your ad on facebook etc...

What can be THAT unique here?

I'm sure there is "someone". But I can't remember the name of any successful microstock producer who does that mysterious "unique" stuff... And I'm here more than 10 years. Unfortunately, I've never seen anyone like that. And I'm not sure there is a customer for that. Because "unique" and overly complicated doesn't sell products, so they don't use it in advertising. Visuals of happy people do sell products, that's why agencies asking and begging for such content, isn't it?

Unique - is truly exclusive and made by custom request.

Not every city, building, landmark, food, etc.. has been shot yet. Those would be unique even if they aren't that interesting. Get into combinations of people and activities and there are many ways of doing it that are barely touched on. Unique doesn't mean great art. What's nice about P5 is that you could shoot great art or unique clips and price them accordingly, you don't need to compete on price.

swisschocolate · « **Reply #9 on:** March 24, 2019, 12:22 »

Quote from: tickstock on March 24, 2019, 12:17

Not every city, building, landmark, food, etc.. has been shot yet. Those would be unique even if they aren't that interesting.

Yes, right.

But some unrecognizable statue in the middle of nowhere will never beat the Eiffel Tower in terms of customer's demand. Just because everyone goes to Paris and there is a huge industry around it.

tickstock · « **Reply #10 on:** March 24, 2019, 12:41 »

Quote from: swisschocolate on March 24, 2019, 12:22

Quote from: tickstock on March 24, 2019, 12:17
Not every city, building, landmark, food, etc.. has been shot yet. Those would be unique even if they aren't that interesting.

Yes, right.

But some unrecognizable statue in the middle of nowhere will never beat the Eiffel Tower in terms of customer's demand. Just because everyone goes to Paris and there is a huge industry around it.

The point is that every subject hasn't had the perfect picture that every buyer wants taken yet, there are lots of unique takes that have value and aren't interchangeable with other images (more so for video). For the most part pictures of the Eiffel Tower are a commodity (although I think great unique shots can probably be made of almost any subject) there are many other subjects that aren't. If the content is only on P5 a premium can be charged so a less in demand subject can end up being a lot more profitable and even relatively more in demand.

swisschocolate · « **Reply #11 on:** March 24, 2019, 12:54 »

Quote from: tickstock on March 24, 2019, 12:41

If the content is only on P5 a premium can be charged so a less in demand subject can end up being a lot more profitable and even relatively more in demand.

Well, this sounds so great in theory. But I can't imagine how to build a stock business that brings regular money with such philosophy...

So:
1 - I have to shoot something that is "unique";
2 - I have to do it all the time;
3 - then hope that a customer will find some website called Pond5;
4 - and then will be willing to pay that high price...;
5 - and then will be willing to do it regulary so I will have a stable income.

I won't be able to do that

I'd be inspired by anyone who could do that on a regular basis and make a living from it, it's a true unique talent!

And I think in that case it would be more profitable to have your own website, market it yourself for unique niche customers and get rid of distractions such as other artists portfolios etc. And it is completely another business model.

tickstock · « **Reply #12 on:** March 24, 2019, 13:04 »

Quote from: swisschocolate on March 24, 2019, 12:54

Quote from: tickstock on March 24, 2019, 12:41
If the content is only on P5 a premium can be charged so a less in demand subject can end up being a lot more profitable and even relatively more in demand.

Well, this sounds so great in theory. But I can't imagine how to build a stock business that brings regular money with such philosophy...

So:
1 - I have to shoot something that is "unique";
2 - I have to do it all the time;
3 - then hope that a customer will find some website called Pond5;
4 - and then will be willing to pay that high price...;
5 - and then will be willing to do it regulary so I will have a stable income.

I won't be able to do that I'd be inspired by anyone who could do that on a regular basis and have a living from it, it's a true unique talent!

And I think in that case it would be more profitable to have your own website, market it yourself for unique niche customers and get rid of distractions such as other artists portfolios etc. And it is completely another business model.

Are you saying you just shoot exactly the same thing as everyone else and there is nothing new or different about your images than anyone else's? All images are exactly the same and it's a crap shoot as to which one a buyer selects? I doubt you do that. I think most of us try to add something unique to all our shoots that makes it better or at least different than what's already out there (uniqueness if you will).

swisschocolate · « **Reply #13 on:** March 24, 2019, 13:14 »

Quote from: tickstock on March 24, 2019, 13:04

Are you saying you just shoot exactly the same thing as everyone else and there is nothing new or different about your images than anyone else's? All images are exactly the same and it's a crap shoot as to which one a buyer selects? I doubt you do that. I think most of us try to add something unique to all our shoots that makes it better or at least different than what's already out there (uniqueness if you will).

I can't physically shoot exactly the same as someone else it will be different anyway. And kind of unique.
But I shoot red heart-shaped boxes with red roses on Valentine's. Because this is what is recognized and needed on Valentine's day.
Not green leaf on purple stones with snowflakes on the foreground saying "Happy Valentine's"... Sorry, I'm still confused what we call "unique" here.

I shoot everyday stuff and a lot of it. Well, I mean commercially viable, that can sell something or at least can be a background for the ad.

Because again, stock (well, from my experience maybe) - is a generic, multi-functional content, and it works only if there is a huge supply. The main customers are corporations, they need an astonishing amount of new media every day now with social media and online magazines and 24/7 global marketing (I see where my images are used).

And customers buy stock with only one purpose: to sell and promote products. And 99% of the time it is simple products for simple people, every single day.

tickstock · « **Reply #14 on:** March 24, 2019, 13:53 »

Quote from: swisschocolate on March 24, 2019, 13:14

Quote from: tickstock on March 24, 2019, 13:04
Are you saying you just shoot exactly the same thing as everyone else and there is nothing new or different about your images than anyone else's? All images are exactly the same and it's a crap shoot as to which one a buyer selects? I doubt you do that. I think most of us try to add something unique to all our shoots that makes it better or at least different than what's already out there (uniqueness if you will).

I can't physically shoot exactly the same as someone else it will be different anyway. And kind of unique.
But I shoot red heart-shaped boxes with red roses on Valentine's. Because this is what is recognized and needed on Valentine's day.
Not green leaf on purple stones with snowflakes on the foreground saying "Happy Valentine's"... Sorry, I'm still confused what we call "unique" here.

I shoot everyday stuff and a lot of it. Well, I mean commercially viable, that can sell something or at least can be a background for the ad.

Because again, stock (well, from my experience maybe) - is a generic, multi-functional content, and it works only if there is a huge supply. The main customers are corporations, they need an astonishing amount of new media every day now with social media and online magazines and 24/7 global marketing (I see where my images are used).

And customers buy stock with only one purpose: to sell and promote products. And 99% of the time it is simple products for simple people, every single day.

It may not be best for you but there are lots of people shooting lots of different subjects with varying degrees of quality. The more generic your or average quality stuff will be less valuable exclusively on one site because it can be undercut by lower prices. I think history has shown what will happen to that content. For me creating different or better content is how I hope to continue. Unique in subject or quality is what I think is needed to do well in the long term. BTW it's not all about selling a product.

swisschocolate · « **Reply #15 on:** March 24, 2019, 14:02 »

Quote from: tickstock on March 24, 2019, 13:53

It may not be best for you but there are lots of people shooting lots of different subjects with varying degrees of quality. The more generic your or average quality stuff will be less valuable exclusively on one site because it can be undercut by lower prices. I think history has shown what will happen to that content. For me creating different or better content is how I hope to continue. Unique in subject or quality is what I think is needed to do well in the long term. BTW it's not all about selling a product.

Yes, probably such strategy works as well, haven't tried it. Mine works for me and I simply enjoy doing it this way.

But isn't it even more frustrating that your "different or better content" may never be discovered and sold at any price, just because Pond5 will never market just your portfolio, but as their statement goes "Over 20000 new videos added daily", whole their library instead? And maybe they'll get some percentage of global buyers and maybe they will find your works on Pond5, and maybe Pond5 will be here in 10 years...

You have only Pond5, but Pond5 has many others... it sounds like not the best relationship status

Pauws99 · « **Reply #16 on:** March 24, 2019, 14:03 »

Quote from: tickstock on March 24, 2019, 13:53

BTW it's not all about selling a product.

Indeed just one example. There are a VAST amount of on-line training packages used by companies often with very mundane pictures

tickstock · « **Reply #17 on:** March 24, 2019, 14:17 »

Quote from: swisschocolate on March 24, 2019, 14:02

Quote from: tickstock on March 24, 2019, 13:53
It may not be best for you but there are lots of people shooting lots of different subjects with varying degrees of quality. The more generic your or average quality stuff will be less valuable exclusively on one site because it can be undercut by lower prices. I think history has shown what will happen to that content. For me creating different or better content is how I hope to continue. Unique in subject or quality is what I think is needed to do well in the long term. BTW it's not all about selling a product.

Yes, probably such strategy works as well, haven't tried it. Mine works for me and I simply enjoy doing it this way.

But isn't it even more frustrating that your "different or better content" may never be discovered and sold at any price, just because Pond5 will never market just your portfolio, but as their statement goes "Over 20000 new videos added daily", whole their library instead? And maybe they'll get some percentage of global buyers and maybe they will find your works on Pond5, and maybe Pond5 will be here in 10 years...

You have only Pond5, but Pond5 has many others... it sounds like not the best relationship status

The main reason I am going to do it is because I think nonexclusive content will continue to be devalued. I suspect a lot of other people will also go with P5 but that remains to be seen. It will be interesting to see who is joining up in the near future.

swisschocolate · « **Reply #18 on:** March 24, 2019, 14:25 »

Quote from: tickstock on March 24, 2019, 14:17

The main reason I am going to do it is because I think nonexclusive content will continue to be devalued. I suspect a lot of other people will also go with P5 but that remains to be seen. It will be interesting to see who is joining up in the near future.

What if it's devalued for a reason? They can't sell it otherwise. Simple.

But while non-exclusive will be devalued and sold somehow somewhere, expensive "exclusive" will be sitting there (on 1! website) just as a marketing hook without sales at all.
This has happend to IS (regardless of all of their "Getty Power"), what makes someone think it won't happen to Pond5 is a mystery to me...

tickstock · « **Reply #19 on:** March 24, 2019, 14:33 »

Quote from: swisschocolate on March 24, 2019, 14:25

Quote from: tickstock on March 24, 2019, 14:17

The main reason I am going to do it is because I think nonexclusive content will continue to be devalued. I suspect a lot of other people will also go with P5 but that remains to be seen. It will be interesting to see who is joining up in the near future.

What if it's devalued for a reason? They can't sell it otherwise. Simple.

But while non-exclusive will be devalued and sold somehow, expensive "exclusive" will be sitting there just as a marketing hook without sales at all.
This has happend to IS (regardless of all of their "Getty Power"), what makes someone think it won't happen to Pond5 is a mystery to me...

I'll risk it not selling with a 60% royalty rate rather than risk it selling for much less at 30%. The challenge is to create content that buyers will pay for, that's my goal. From my limited video experience P5 seems like it should deliver what I want.

swisschocolate · « **Reply #20 on:** March 24, 2019, 14:35 »

Quote from: tickstock on March 24, 2019, 14:33

I'll risk it not selling with a 60% royalty rate rather than risk it selling for much less at 30%. The challenge is to create content that buyers will pay for, that's my goal.

That's a great goal

Wish everyone who takes this risk a great luck.

tickstock · « **Reply #21 on:** March 24, 2019, 14:38 »

Quote from: swisschocolate on March 24, 2019, 14:35

Quote from: tickstock on March 24, 2019, 14:33
I'll risk it not selling with a 60% royalty rate rather than risk it selling for much less at 30%. The challenge is to create content that buyers will pay for, that's my goal.

That's a great goal Wish everyone who takes this risk a great luck.

I think you are discounting the risk of not doing it. I'm not surprised anymore when I see companies lower prices or royalty rates for nonexclusive content and I won't be surprised then next time they do it either.

swisschocolate · « **Reply #22 on:** March 24, 2019, 14:45 »

Quote from: tickstock on March 24, 2019, 14:38

I think you are discounting the risk of not doing it. I'm not surprised anymore when I see companies lower prices or royalty rates for nonexclusive content and I won't be surprised then next time they do it either.

I just came back from IS exclusivity

no thanks. Was running out with one thought: "I have to save my portfolio before it's too late".

My lost positions in searches/rankings on SS and Fotolia/AS for all these years is irreparable loss for my stock business.

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #23 on:** March 25, 2019, 10:50 »

Quote from: tickstock on March 24, 2019, 11:17

On the flip side. Putting your work on all the sites makes it a commodity with royalties and pricing likely determined by the worst of the bunch. There is a race to the bottom. I know I buy things at the cheapest places, how many people buy video/photo gear from the local camera store (assuming any are still around) and how many buy it from BH or Amazon? I would rather risk it on a company paying 60%. What would happen to the sites paying less if everyone did the same?

I buy almost everything from B&H and if used, maybe eBay or FM forums/Fredmiranda. Local camera stores are Best Buy, Walmart, Costco and the likes. I used to buy things at Blacks AKA Wolf and many other names, just to help them. Paid more, but I could walk in, get what I wanted and walk out.

Same goes for Radio Shack. I can get the same parts on eBay and wait 3-6 weeks, order from the US and get them in days But I can't drive to the local Radio Shack anymore and grab things off the shelf. I miss that.

While I agree with most of what you have written on this thread, I will disagree about the buyer searching for the perfect image. They don't care if it's "The One" and only one, they want something to illustrate, as a side, as a background or something other than the main point of their use.

What I mean is, those people who shop by price, will find something suitable and won't care if my work is only available on Pond5.

Yes we are being sold as a commodity, things have been that way for seven years. Good that someone else has noticed and recognizes that, that's the business and Microstock.

If P5 is trying to be stock and not cheap Micro, I'm thinking, not a bad plan. Since I haven't got video all over or thousands of ordinary Micro style video, I might consider going exclusive. I don't have as much at risk as other who might have 10,000 on multiple agencies.

Like everything else, we all need to decide for our own material, work and value. I like the 60% idea and video is not first, or second or third actually, for me, so why not.

But buyers don't shop for identical video by price, they shop by price, for what they need, just like consumers. And if they are looking for the subjects and the video that makes up most of Microstock, if they can't find it on one site, they will look on another. I don't think P5 is going to corner any market for Exclusive video, only available here, the only shot of something... that will benefit most artists. The plan would work for someone new maybe?

If P5 wants to dig in and demand all or none, I'm guessing that's what they will get. If they took the agency exclusive, they might get some one of a kind shots that people want to gets the most for their work.

Other side is, people will upload the best, for the most profit and then upload the rest, outtakes, extra trims, of the same, everywhere else. So P5 is getting quality but not originality or true exclusive. That's probably why they went for All or None?

tickstock · « **Reply #24 on:** March 25, 2019, 11:30 »

Quote from: Uncle Pete on March 25, 2019, 10:50

While I agree with most of what you have written on this thread, I will disagree about the buyer searching for the perfect image. They don't care if it's "The One" and only one, they want something to illustrate, as a side, as a background or something other than the main point of their use.
...
But buyers don't shop for identical video by price, they shop by price, for what they need, just like consumers. And if they are looking for the subjects and the video that makes up most of Microstock, if they can't find it on one site, they will look on another. I don't think P5 is going to corner any market for Exclusive video, only available here, the only shot of something... that will benefit most artists. The plan would work for someone new maybe?

The point is that buyers don't necessarily need the perfect image but they can't use images of apples to sell oranges and many can't use a bad image of an apple to sell apples. There are lots of subjects out there where there are no good images or videos and a buyer can't really just use something close.
The reason having exclusive content is beneficial is that the more times a buyer can only find what they are looking for on P5 the more likely it is to be a buyer's first choice when looking for any content.

increasingdifficulty · « **Reply #25 on:** March 25, 2019, 11:45 »

Quote from: tickstock on March 25, 2019, 11:30

There are lots of subjects out there where there are no good images or videos and a buyer can't really just use something close.

Can you give an example of something? It would be interesting to see what you have in mind.

tickstock · « **Reply #26 on:** March 25, 2019, 11:56 »

Quote from: increasingdifficulty on March 25, 2019, 11:45

Quote from: tickstock on March 25, 2019, 11:30
There are lots of subjects out there where there are no good images or videos and a buyer can't really just use something close.

Can you give an example of something? It would be interesting to see what you have in mind.

How many videos of racially diverse families can you find in front of the eiffel tower? Lots of people from all over the world travel to France to see the Eiffel Tower but not much content represents them.

increasingdifficulty · « **Reply #27 on:** March 25, 2019, 12:17 »

Quote from: tickstock on March 25, 2019, 11:56

Quote from: increasingdifficulty on March 25, 2019, 11:45
Quote from: tickstock on March 25, 2019, 11:30
There are lots of subjects out there where there are no good images or videos and a buyer can't really just use something close.

Can you give an example of something? It would be interesting to see what you have in mind.
How many videos of racially diverse families can you find in front of the eiffel tower? Lots of people from all over the world travel to France to see the Eiffel Tower but not much content represents them.

It would be interesting to see the demand vs. supply for different ethinicities.

I don't do any work with models, but if you do, this might be an area to work in.

georgep7 · « **Reply #28 on:** March 25, 2019, 13:15 »

Quote

How many videos of racially diverse families can you find in front of the eiffel tower? Lots of people from all over the world travel to France to see the Eiffel Tower but not much content represents them.

It would be interesting to see the demand vs. supply for different ethinicities.

I don't do any work with models, but if you do, this might be an area to work in.

Eitherway if i got it right, it will end up editorial. No sales to Benetton Group SpA

https://helpx.adobe.com/stock/contributor/help/known-image-restrictions.html

increasingdifficulty · « **Reply #29 on:** March 25, 2019, 13:22 »

Quote from: georgep7 on March 25, 2019, 13:15

Quote

How many videos of racially diverse families can you find in front of the eiffel tower? Lots of people from all over the world travel to France to see the Eiffel Tower but not much content represents them.

It would be interesting to see the demand vs. supply for different ethinicities.

I don't do any work with models, but if you do, this might be an area to work in.

Eitherway if i got it right, it will end up editorial. No sales to Benetton Group SpA

https://helpx.adobe.com/stock/contributor/help/known-image-restrictions.html

Only the light show at night is protected. The Eiffel Tower during daytime you can sell as commercial all you want.

tickstock · « **Reply #30 on:** March 25, 2019, 13:25 »

Quote from: georgep7 on March 25, 2019, 13:15

Quote

How many videos of racially diverse families can you find in front of the eiffel tower? Lots of people from all over the world travel to France to see the Eiffel Tower but not much content represents them.

It would be interesting to see the demand vs. supply for different ethinicities.

I don't do any work with models, but if you do, this might be an area to work in.

Eitherway if i got it right, it will end up editorial. No sales to Benetton Group SpA

https://helpx.adobe.com/stock/contributor/help/known-image-restrictions.html

The eiffel tower is ok for commercial use.

swisschocolate · « **Reply #31 on:** March 25, 2019, 13:28 »

Quote from: tickstock on March 25, 2019, 13:25

The eiffel tower is ok for commercial use.

During the day

without illuminations.

tickstock · « **Reply #32 on:** March 25, 2019, 13:33 »

Quote from: swisschocolate on March 25, 2019, 13:28

Quote from: tickstock on March 25, 2019, 13:25
The eiffel tower is ok for commercial use.

During the day without illuminations.

Or at night if the lights don't work.

georgep7 · « **Reply #33 on:** March 25, 2019, 13:46 »

Eiffel tower rights holder

"SETE - illuminations Pierre Bideau"

I know my English are not that good, but am I missing something?

tickstock · « **Reply #34 on:** March 25, 2019, 13:47 »

Quote from: georgep7 on March 25, 2019, 13:46

Eiffel tower rights holder

"SETE - illuminations Pierre Bideau"

I know my English are not that good, but am I missing something?

The lighting is protected which is only on at night.

georgep7 · « **Reply #35 on:** March 25, 2019, 13:49 »

Aha! Thank you!

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #36 on:** March 25, 2019, 15:55 »

Quote from: tickstock on March 25, 2019, 11:30

Quote from: Uncle Pete on March 25, 2019, 10:50
While I agree with most of what you have written on this thread, I will disagree about the buyer searching for the perfect image. They don't care if it's "The One" and only one, they want something to illustrate, as a side, as a background or something other than the main point of their use.
...
But buyers don't shop for identical video by price, they shop by price, for what they need, just like consumers. And if they are looking for the subjects and the video that makes up most of Microstock, if they can't find it on one site, they will look on another. I don't think P5 is going to corner any market for Exclusive video, only available here, the only shot of something... that will benefit most artists. The plan would work for someone new maybe?
The point is that buyers don't necessarily need the perfect image but they can't use images of apples to sell oranges and many can't use a bad image of an apple to sell apples. There are lots of subjects out there where there are no good images or videos and a buyer can't really just use something close.
The reason having exclusive content is beneficial is that the more times a buyer can only find what they are looking for on P5 the more likely it is to be a buyer's first choice when looking for any content.

I like the second part. Except I really think you are taking this unique subject theory to the extreme. A buyer would need that unique subject and then a very special video, only available on P5 of that very unique subject. Yes they could sell, but not often.

Which is also similar to my, shoot things that aren't well covered and you might get a download. Ignore most popular, because that's already been down and there are way too many very good examples available.

Somewhere in the middle is probably best? But I wouldn't bank on a one of a kind shot as the path to greater earnings.

The first sentence is the theory of keyword spam, that if someone uploads apples and uses flawed tags, a buyer will buy their oranges image, because they saw it, and not because they wanted apples. Microstock is so full of fallacies and tricks, which make no sense and don't work. At least we can be amused by the means some people will try to play the system to make some pocket change?

With the whole choice at P5, two accounts, not much of an issue anymore is it. I can upload my best and unusual, which can bring the highest return to the exclusive account, and upload the scraps and out takes to Microstock. I also agree with not competing with myself and not supporting the race to the bottom.

tickstock · « **Reply #37 on:** March 25, 2019, 16:23 »

Quote from: Uncle Pete on March 25, 2019, 15:55

Except I really think you are taking this unique subject theory to the extreme. A buyer would need that unique subject and then a very special video, only available on P5 of that very unique subject. Yes they could sell, but not often.

The example I used was of a non-white family in front of the Eiffel Tower. Is that an extreme view of uniqueness? Would it be very special? Seems like a very simple idea that would have a lot of sales potential but just isn't covered now. I've said it a few times already but a unique clip or image doesn't need to be anything extraordinary, a great piece of art, a subject no one ever thought of before just something in demand that hasn't been covered (or a better take on something that has been covered). There are still a lot of possibilities out there especially for video.

SuperPhoto · « **Reply #38 on:** March 25, 2019, 16:34 »

Quote from: increasingdifficulty on March 25, 2019, 11:45

Quote from: tickstock on March 25, 2019, 11:30
There are lots of subjects out there where there are no good images or videos and a buyer can't really just use something close.

Can you give an example of something? It would be interesting to see what you have in mind.

a) Close up pictures of mars, Saturn, the sun. Close up view of live satellites orbiting the earth (not computer generated).
b) One on one interviews with celebrities, presidents, popes, etc exclusive 'behind-the-scenes/VIP/backstage' content
c) Difficult to obtain footage (i.e., North Korean soldiers marching, videos WITH signed releases of people in a live gunfight, genuine gore, car chase aerial view, etc)
d) FPV of animals chasing each other, perrigrine falcons chasing prey, etc, etc.

Just a few ideas off the top of my head...

YadaYadaYada · « **Reply #39 on:** March 25, 2019, 22:25 »

Quote from: tickstock on March 25, 2019, 16:23

Quote from: Uncle Pete on March 25, 2019, 15:55
Except I really think you are taking this unique subject theory to the extreme. A buyer would need that unique subject and then a very special video, only available on P5 of that very unique subject. Yes they could sell, but not often.
The example I used was of a non-white family in front of the Eiffel Tower. Is that an extreme view of uniqueness? Would it be very special? Seems like a very simple idea that would have a lot of sales potential but just isn't covered now. I've said it a few times already but a unique clip or image doesn't need to be anything extraordinary, a great piece of art, a subject no one ever thought of before just something in demand that hasn't been covered (or a better take on something that has been covered). There are still a lot of possibilities out there especially for video.

Easy, something that nobody every thought of before. Or I can just fly over to Paris, gets some models of not white and shoot some video of them

Quote from: SuperPhoto on March 25, 2019, 16:34

Quote from: increasingdifficulty on March 25, 2019, 11:45
Quote from: tickstock on March 25, 2019, 11:30
There are lots of subjects out there where there are no good images or videos and a buyer can't really just use something close.

Can you give an example of something? It would be interesting to see what you have in mind.

a) Close up pictures of mars, Saturn, the sun. Close up view of live satellites orbiting the earth (not computer generated).
b) One on one interviews with celebrities, presidents, popes, etc exclusive 'behind-the-scenes/VIP/backstage' content
c) Difficult to obtain footage (i.e., North Korean soldiers marching, videos WITH signed releases of people in a live gunfight, genuine gore, car chase aerial view, etc)
d) FPV of animals chasing each other, perrigrine falcons chasing prey, etc, etc.

Just a few ideas off the top of my head...

Or I could book a flight to the moon and get some unusual location shots that nobody else has. Go out into the wild for a month and wait for some once in a lifetime shot to happen. North Korea would welcome us documenting their troops. I'll just go ask famous celebs for video interviews, until somebody says yes, because they want to be on microstock. This is all so easy, I don't know why more of us haven't thought of that or done them already.

SuperPhoto · « **Reply #40 on:** March 25, 2019, 22:29 »

Quote from: YadaYadaYada on March 25, 2019, 22:25

Or I could book a flight to the moon and get some unusual location shots that nobody else has. Go out into the wild for a month and wait for some once in a lifetime shot to happen. North Korea would welcome us documenting their troops. I'll just go ask famous celebs for video interviews, until somebody says yes, because they want to be on microstock. This is all so easy, I don't know why more of us haven't thought of that or done them already.

Shhhhhhhhh! Don't repeat it... otherwise EVERYONE may copy that idea!!!!!!!!

tickstock · « **Reply #41 on:** March 25, 2019, 22:48 »

Quote from: YadaYadaYada on March 25, 2019, 22:25

Quote from: tickstock on March 25, 2019, 16:23
Quote from: Uncle Pete on March 25, 2019, 15:55
Except I really think you are taking this unique subject theory to the extreme. A buyer would need that unique subject and then a very special video, only available on P5 of that very unique subject. Yes they could sell, but not often.
The example I used was of a non-white family in front of the Eiffel Tower. Is that an extreme view of uniqueness? Would it be very special? Seems like a very simple idea that would have a lot of sales potential but just isn't covered now. I've said it a few times already but a unique clip or image doesn't need to be anything extraordinary, a great piece of art, a subject no one ever thought of before just something in demand that hasn't been covered (or a better take on something that has been covered). There are still a lot of possibilities out there especially for video.

Easy, something that nobody every thought of before. Or I can just fly over to Paris, gets some models of not white and shoot some video of them

There are no short cuts or surefire get rich quick tricks out there. If you are doing this full time it's a job like any other. Sorry Paris isn't closer to your house but to be fair I wasn't trying to give you guidance on what to shoot. If you just want stuff you can shoot around your house with your cellphone I don't think this is going to work out for you. But seriously the example wasn't so crazy and is probably applicable to places near where you live.

Bart · « **Reply #42 on:** March 25, 2019, 22:57 »

Agree with OP.

Trust is broken.

Let's imagine a scenario where a big footage buyer calls up Pond5 and says
"I have budget of 10K and need 100 4K clips for a series we're doing... we have created lightboxes on competitor sites but we really prefer the P5 exclusive lightbox our interns created" ... what will P5 do? will they send them back to competitor? or "work with them" on a deal? think about it

Perhaps P5 misunderstood buyers calls for exclusive content... exclusive is, exclusive. An exclusive news story is not exclusive if any station can run it. Pond5 "Exclusive" content will still be available to others on P5... oh, and P5 affiliates!

Shutter and Getty have been doing "Custom Content"(Exclusive) briefs for specific clients that don't want royalty free and want hundreds of catered options for pennes on a dollar, good for them! I just feel terrible for all the starving artists fulfilling their requests. Might as well work in a sweat shop kid!

Bart

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #43 on:** March 29, 2019, 16:59 »

Quote from: tickstock on March 25, 2019, 22:48

Quote from: YadaYadaYada on March 25, 2019, 22:25
Quote from: tickstock on March 25, 2019, 16:23
Quote from: Uncle Pete on March 25, 2019, 15:55
Except I really think you are taking this unique subject theory to the extreme. A buyer would need that unique subject and then a very special video, only available on P5 of that very unique subject. Yes they could sell, but not often.
The example I used was of a non-white family in front of the Eiffel Tower. Is that an extreme view of uniqueness? Would it be very special? Seems like a very simple idea that would have a lot of sales potential but just isn't covered now. I've said it a few times already but a unique clip or image doesn't need to be anything extraordinary, a great piece of art, a subject no one ever thought of before just something in demand that hasn't been covered (or a better take on something that has been covered). There are still a lot of possibilities out there especially for video.

Easy, something that nobody every thought of before. Or I can just fly over to Paris, gets some models of not white and shoot some video of them
There are no short cuts or surefire get rich quick tricks out there. If you are doing this full time it's a job like any other. Sorry Paris isn't closer to your house but to be fair I wasn't trying to give you guidance on what to shoot. If you just want stuff you can shoot around your house with your cellphone I don't think this is going to work out for you. But seriously the example wasn't so crazy and is probably applicable to places near where you live.

I never thought of shooting cell phone video, good idea.

If you knew where I lived, you wouldn't be saying that about places near where I live. I mean, here's the view East. In four miles there's nothing but lake for the next 90 miles. North is hardly different, except no giant lake, but less populated. Only 18 miles West and there's some four lane highway?

5 miles to the ghost town they call a city, 4 miles South to the "Big City" 11,642, and 2 1/2 miles to the village that has Marshals instead of police.

Just having some fun. I like the rural life, all the neighbors have dogs and are armed, but no one shoots each other. Certainly nothing like the city.

In fact I do agree with you that people can probably find something good or unique, without traveling far or going to France. Some places are just a bit more difficult.

fritz · « **Reply #44 on:** March 29, 2019, 17:26 »

Quote from: swisschocolate on March 24, 2019, 11:45

Quote from: tickstock on March 24, 2019, 11:17
I know I buy things at the cheapest places

So do the buyers.
I really can't understand it...

"Exclusive" RF asset is more expensive, it is available in only one store and the whole "aura" of exclusivity is so misleading, it is never ever exclusive. What is the benefit of paying more? And still being ready that your competitor will buy the same stuff.

In addition to this, agencies make more money on non-exclusive content. So basically, they use the word "Exclusive" to sell more non-exclusive stuff.

This is what is happening on IS, I can buy a subscription to get non-ex, or I can buy a subscription and get ex+non-ex. So non-ex content has 100% chance to be sold, while ex content has only 50% chance. And in those 50% they will still compete with cheaper non-ex library.
Looking at this closely...

Exclusivity is a pure scam for an artist and a perfect marketing "story" for the agency.

I couldn’t agree more

tickstock · « **Reply #45 on:** March 30, 2019, 00:16 »

Quote from: fritz on March 29, 2019, 17:26

Quote from: swisschocolate on March 24, 2019, 11:45
Quote from: tickstock on March 24, 2019, 11:17
I know I buy things at the cheapest places

So do the buyers.
I really can't understand it...

"Exclusive" RF asset is more expensive, it is available in only one store and the whole "aura" of exclusivity is so misleading, it is never ever exclusive. What is the benefit of paying more? And still being ready that your competitor will buy the same stuff.

In addition to this, agencies make more money on non-exclusive content. So basically, they use the word "Exclusive" to sell more non-exclusive stuff.

This is what is happening on IS, I can buy a subscription to get non-ex, or I can buy a subscription and get ex+non-ex. So non-ex content has 100% chance to be sold, while ex content has only 50% chance. And in those 50% they will still compete with cheaper non-ex library.
Looking at this closely...

Exclusivity is a pure scam for an artist and a perfect marketing "story" for the agency.

I couldn’t agree more

Somehow I'm still making a full time living from it. If all your content is the exact same as everything else you'll struggle exclusive or not.

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #46 on:** March 30, 2019, 10:04 »

Quote from: tickstock on March 30, 2019, 00:16

If all your content is the exact same as everything else you'll struggle exclusive or not.

Another simple fact that so many miss. But I could repeat the basics and still it seems like I'm speaking to a rock wall. Stock is all about what the images are.

Useful, unique, needed, original, diverse, and essentially that buyers want. Selling recycled same old, same old, that won't matter what agency or what license, destination = failure.

Yes I changed to P5 exclusive for video, I'm tired of supporting low paying, ineffective, waste of my time, agencies. And if I sell the same or a little less, that's fine with me. I won't be promoting lower commissions and taking advantage of artists. Not that I expect any agency cares what I do.

leox83 · « **Reply #47 on:** April 06, 2019, 07:37 »

Today i had a sale in Pond5.

https://www.pond5.com/stock-footage/75806859/pangea-continents-drifting.html [nofollow]

it is priced $99. They cut it to $71.1. And i got just $35...So my %50 is just %35....

How can we trust Pond5 when we go exclusive??? they can cut 30% whenever they need. This is happening to me very frequently... 6 months of trust seems very dangrous...[/font]

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #48 on:** April 06, 2019, 07:56 »

Quote from: leox83 on April 06, 2019, 07:37

Today i had a sale in Pond5.

https://www.pond5.com/stock-footage/75806859/pangea-continents-drifting.html

it is priced $99. They cut it to $71.1. And i got just $35...So my %50 is just %35....

How can we trust Pond5 when we go exclusive??? they can cut 30% whenever they need. This is happening to me very frequently... 6 months of trust seems very dangrous...[/font]

That's terrible, and to think you could have made sale for $1.50 commission on SS for the same sub. What's the world coming to?

obj owl · « **Reply #49 on:** April 06, 2019, 17:07 »

Quote from: leox83 on April 06, 2019, 07:37

Today i had a sale in Pond5.

https://www.pond5.com/stock-footage/75806859/pangea-continents-drifting.html

it is priced $99. They cut it to $71.1. And i got just $35...So my %50 is just %35....

How can we trust Pond5 when we go exclusive??? they can cut 30% whenever they need. This is happening to me very frequently... 6 months of trust seems very dangrous...[/font]

Have you gone exclusive or do you have the item for sale cheaper elsewhere?

leox83 · « **Reply #50 on:** April 07, 2019, 06:28 »

i am not exclusive, but this video is only in pond5. They still offer 50% because they will start exclusivity 8 april.

they gave 50% after they cut 30% so $99 sale, i get $35...

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #51 on:** April 07, 2019, 07:47 »

Quote from: leox83 on April 07, 2019, 06:28

i am not exclusive, but this video is only in pond5. They still offer 50% because they will start exclusivity 8 april.

they gave 50% after they cut 30% so $99 sale, i get $35...

Lets use the same math for both. Commission will be 40% for non-exclusive video and 60% for Exclusive video.

Since anyone can have two accounts, we can choose. Do you want a video to make 60% at only one place or have it on many sites, but still get 40% on Pond5?

georgep7 · « **Reply #52 on:** April 07, 2019, 07:57 »

Quote

What's the world coming to?

according to the clip referenced, the world is coming to...

...expansion?....

hehehe!

Mantis · « **Reply #53 on:** April 07, 2019, 08:19 »

Quote from: Uncle Pete on April 07, 2019, 07:47

Quote from: leox83 on April 07, 2019, 06:28
i am not exclusive, but this video is only in pond5. They still offer 50% because they will start exclusivity 8 april.

they gave 50% after they cut 30% so $99 sale, i get $35...

Lets use the same math for both. Commission will be 40% for non-exclusive video and 60% for Exclusive video.

Since anyone can have two accounts, we can choose. Do you want a video to make 60% at only one place or have it on many sites, but still get 40% on Pond5?

This has sort of been my point. It is my opinion that unless exclusives get super special search placement every day, every week all year long, P5 will not generate enough volume for it to be worthwhile going exclusive. I see what amounts to a zero sum game here. Let's just say that volume is there as an exclusive. What happens next? A lot of contributors will go exclusive, muting the value of being exclusive in the first place when you are now competing for placement once again. As I walk through the whole scenario it just does not make long-term sense, but perhaps it does for the short term.....assuming the marketing is there to drive traffic to the site.

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #54 on:** April 07, 2019, 08:39 »

Quote from: Mantis on April 07, 2019, 08:19

Quote from: Uncle Pete on April 07, 2019, 07:47
Quote from: leox83 on April 07, 2019, 06:28
i am not exclusive, but this video is only in pond5. They still offer 50% because they will start exclusivity 8 april.

they gave 50% after they cut 30% so $99 sale, i get $35...

Lets use the same math for both. Commission will be 40% for non-exclusive video and 60% for Exclusive video.

Since anyone can have two accounts, we can choose. Do you want a video to make 60% at only one place or have it on many sites, but still get 40% on Pond5?

This has sort of been my point. It is my opinion that unless exclusives get super special search placement every day, every week all year long, P5 will not generate enough volume for it to be worthwhile going exclusive. I see what amounts to a zero sum game here. Let's just say that volume is there as an exclusive. What happens next? A lot of contributors will go exclusive, muting the value of being exclusive in the first place when you are now competing for placement once again. As I walk through the whole scenario it just does not make long-term sense, but perhaps it does for the short term.....assuming the marketing is there to drive traffic to the site.

I agree with the thoughts and logic. The only benefit might be, the placement, and volume might not make up for the overall loss. I'm not sure that a lot of people will watch and jump in, after the initial surge. You're right, if people see there's an advantage, they could migrate, but usually there's not enough convincing evidence to make people jump from making money at many sites, to testing exclusive.

Since we have a choice, long term or short, exclusive, mixed or change nothing, there are plenty of options for anyone's personal choice.

I'm not saying anyone else is going to be like myself. My loss is nearly nothing. I hardly have any video anywhere. I only had to check IS, SS and AS to clean out a small number at each. For me, the extra 20% makes sense. Yes, considering that the standard is now 40% and I'll get 60% I'll make 20% more than the standard. I made nothing at IS, some pack sales on SS and nothing on AS.

People with more and better video, on more sites, with more sales, someone else... may need to look at your points. Potential long term vs short term.

I never intend to tell anyone what they should do, only offer what I think I should do, or offer opinions about the possibilities.

After all, we are all individuals and independent content producers for the majority of people here and working Microstock.

georgep7 · « **Reply #55 on:** April 07, 2019, 09:20 »

(My) question was answered in other thread.

obj owl · « **Reply #56 on:** April 07, 2019, 12:57 »

Quote from: leox83 on April 07, 2019, 06:28

i am not exclusive, but this video is only in pond5. They still offer 50% because they will start exclusivity 8 april.

they gave 50% after they cut 30% so $99 sale, i get $35...

I'd say that's out of order, they have no need to discount any item only to be found on Pond5 given that they can now price match against the lowest price anywhere. I feel they may come a cropper if they try that with exclusive content without the consent of the contributor.

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #57 on:** April 08, 2019, 08:02 »

Quote from: obj owl on April 07, 2019, 12:57

Quote from: leox83 on April 07, 2019, 06:28
i am not exclusive, but this video is only in pond5. They still offer 50% because they will start exclusivity 8 april.

they gave 50% after they cut 30% so $99 sale, i get $35...

I'd say that's out of order, they have no need to discount any item only to be found on Pond5 given that they can now price match against the lowest price anywhere. I feel they may come a cropper if they try that with exclusive content without the consent of the contributor.

I didn't understand what you were writing at first. Maybe I don't still. Pond5 will price match of a same image, at the lowest price found anywhere else? Not sure I understand leox83 either. If the image was only on Pond5, not under exclusive terms, I read it as, they discounted his set price. Do they do that?

I do understand the last words, I think? They should hold the prices what we set them at for exclusive, and not offer discounts. Right?

leox83 · « **Reply #58 on:** April 08, 2019, 09:25 »

i have $99 footage in Pond5. it is sold and i got $35,9.
i should get $49.5 (50% because it is sold before 8 april (8 april is before exclusivity))

What i mean is their percentage share is not trustable in any case.

georgep7 · « **Reply #59 on:** April 08, 2019, 09:51 »

Maybe you have to ask / email support directly?

It is interesting that many people refer to GPP option (even if you are not in it?)
Perhaps there is a problem in your account or something.

I understand the frustration, I would be too,
but isn't it better to resolve it before any other loss in sales?
They answer emails extra fast as far as I can tell.

Wishing you the faster and best solution possible

Trippy · « **Reply #60 on:** April 08, 2019, 10:13 »

Being exclusive with Pond 5 will never make up for the loss of revenue from Shutterstock and Adobe.

Their Exclusive Program is just smoke and mirrors to hide their 20% revenue cut.

I wish all those joining the program best of luck. But I'm out.

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #61 on:** April 08, 2019, 13:10 »

Quote from: leox83 on April 08, 2019, 09:25

i have $99 footage in Pond5. it is sold and i got $35,9.
i should get $49.5 (50% because it is sold before 8 april (8 april is before exclusivity))

What i mean is their percentage share is not trustable in any case.

I don't know about trusted, or not, but now I understand what you had happen. You got 40% instead of 50% if the sale was $99.

I think George is right, contact support at least at Pond5 they respond within a couple days.

I'm officially exclusive on the 11th, cleaned out everything, all other places. I don't expect any great gain and I'd say for most people, the non-exclusive is probably going to be better in the long run. For me, one agency is fine. Personal choice and I don't advocate others should or shouldn't do anything. Personal choice.

obj owl · « **Reply #62 on:** April 08, 2019, 14:09 »

Quote from: Uncle Pete on April 08, 2019, 08:02

Quote from: obj owl on April 07, 2019, 12:57
Quote from: leox83 on April 07, 2019, 06:28
i am not exclusive, but this video is only in pond5. They still offer 50% because they will start exclusivity 8 april.

they gave 50% after they cut 30% so $99 sale, i get $35...

I'd say that's out of order, they have no need to discount any item only to be found on Pond5 given that they can now price match against the lowest price anywhere. I feel they may come a cropper if they try that with exclusive content without the consent of the contributor.

I didn't understand what you were writing at first. Maybe I don't still. Pond5 will price match of a same image, at the lowest price found anywhere else? Not sure I understand leox83 either. If the image was only on Pond5, not under exclusive terms, I read it as, they discounted his set price. Do they do that?

I do understand the last words, I think? They should hold the prices what we set them at for exclusive, and not offer discounts. Right?

He got less than 40% when the rate at the time of the sale was 50%, that suggests discounting, maybe there is another explanation. All the other agencies do it, but it's not always transparent. Pond5 you would think would not do it as it nullifies the point of setting your own price, which is an attraction to the contributor. They have enterprise customers and are always offering some discount to first time buyers, question is do they take the discount on the chin or do they pass it down to the contributor. They also test prices, which is another reason you may make less than thought you would.

From the POND5 CONTRIBUTOR AGREEMENT
"4. Special Terms for Video
I. If you do not enroll in the Exclusivity Program, notwithstanding section 3.b. above, you shall not set the price for an item of video Content that is higher than the lowest price for which the same (or substantially the same) Content item is offered by or on any Other Marketplace, and if we discover that the Content item is offered at a lower price by or on any Other Marketplace, we may change the price of your content in our marketplace."

As you can see with the new structure they now have the ability to price match any video in their collection sold at other agencies, a unique selling point maybe, at least the only one to be able to do it transparently (as long as they don't discount, which would muddy the waters). Whereas before they were hamstrung by contributors setting high prices making them noncompetitive, now they can say they are the cheapest in the business for all their content if they use their ability to price match.

leox83 · « **Reply #63 on:** April 09, 2019, 10:12 »

i am not sure if i have right to send screenshot of my dashboard, you can see how many times i had this cut.
Also i talked about this with pond5 before. They say: it is our strategy...

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #64 on:** April 09, 2019, 11:15 »

Quote from: leox83 on April 09, 2019, 10:12

i am not sure if i have right to send screenshot of my dashboard, you can see how many times i had this cut.
Also i talked about this with pond5 before. They say: it is our strategy...

So if I understand right, you have a clip priced at $99 and they negotiate a lower price, other than what you set it, lower. Which means their strategy is anyone who sets their own price is merely making a suggestion, Pond5 can sell for what they decide?

I don't know if they promised to sell for our prices, I haven't read, line by line, what the TOS says. Or if anything promises us that our set price will be the price? Interesting that you brought this up.

Of course:

Quote from: obj owl on April 08, 2019, 14:09

From the POND5 CONTRIBUTOR AGREEMENT
"4. Special Terms for Video
I. If you do not enroll in the Exclusivity Program, notwithstanding section 3.b. above, you shall not set the price for an item of video Content that is higher than the lowest price for which the same (or substantially the same) Content item is offered by or on any Other Marketplace, and if we discover that the Content item is offered at a lower price by or on any Other Marketplace, we may change the price of your content in our marketplace."

Is also a possible answer. I'm not going to dig through the TOS and terms, someone will have to do that. But I'm just saying, they could have the option to alter prices and maybe they haven't promised that our set prices will be the final price. If they have, that would be a cause for concern. Also worded such that, if someone uploads some files exclusive and other similar from the same setup or shoot, P5 can discount, because the same is offered elsewhere for a lower price.

Fairplay · « **Reply #65 on:** April 10, 2019, 05:13 »

Quote from: Trippy on April 08, 2019, 10:13

Being exclusive with Pond 5 will never make up for the loss of revenue from Shutterstock and Adobe.

Their Exclusive Program is just smoke and mirrors to hide their 20% revenue cut.

I wish all those joining the program best of luck. But I'm out.

That's exactly what I think too.
The situation is Win-Win for Pond5 (bigger cut from non-exclusive sales and more exclusive files in their collection), and Lose-Lose for contributors (exclusives will make less compared to selling the same files on the few biggest agencies and non-exclusives will make 20% less).

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #66 on:** April 10, 2019, 08:16 »

Quote from: Fairplay on April 10, 2019, 05:13

Quote from: Trippy on April 08, 2019, 10:13
Being exclusive with Pond 5 will never make up for the loss of revenue from Shutterstock and Adobe.

Their Exclusive Program is just smoke and mirrors to hide their 20% revenue cut.

I wish all those joining the program best of luck. But I'm out.
That's exactly what I think too.
The situation is Win-Win for Pond5 (bigger cut from non-exclusive sales and more exclusive files in their collection), and Lose-Lose for contributors (exclusives will make less compared to selling the same files on the few biggest agencies and non-exclusives will make 20% less).

For most people I'd agree.

In my case, I'm just reaching for the big one,

top returns, and ignoring the rest. I think people who produce and distribute more and have better work, will be better served keeping many agencies.

Not smoke and mirrors and not hiding anything. Announced in the open, they are paying less for files that are available on many other sites, for less, and paying more for anything exclusive. This raises the same point that many have made for years about the race to the bottom, competing on price alone, because most agencies all have the same files. What else can they offer?

Pond5 is changing that and saying, we're going to charge more (hey that means I make more) and Pond5 will have content that's not available anywhere else. This is going against the trend to sell your work as a commodity with no distinction and no difference between agencies, except price.

Microstock has not created a new math or upset the economics apple cart such that the theory of supply and demand has been overturned. Supply side, Pond5 is now going to offer something that can't be bought someplace else. And in the TOS, perfectly clear, for the people who try to skirt the rules and flood other agencies with similar, if Pond5 finds those, they will drop the price to match.

They are making a promise to buyers that the unique content will be only available on Pond5 and by the way, they will be distributing to other agencies. I don't know how "exciting" that will be, but that does mean I'll upload to one and be available, possibly, on three.

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