Author Topic: Pond5 "Good News"! (Read 28835 times)

tickstock · « **Reply #75 on:** March 21, 2019, 14:20 »

Quote from: jjneff on March 21, 2019, 14:13

Just got off the phone with them, let's see what the future holds for us long term shooters! Now I am posting a video about it on my site but I will summarize it here. I think as a business this is a good move and needed at this time in the industry. I am seeing my RPD go down and buyers shopping around as well. The 60-40 split does not bother me and I would have done something similar. If you are a serious video producer then this is a good space for you! If they keep the buyers coming this will put pressure on Getty to get more content but do be fooled Getty is the one who has shafted the artist for $$$. Pond5 has set it so I make more then they do if I am exclusive! This is the move I expected and aside from a few glitches I hope it does well! Now I did make a suggestion to add photo in the exclusive pack so we could advertise that as well! Watch the video on my channel in about 1 hour if you want more info. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwoU327B927MD49NNf16gxw?view_as=subscriber

They definitely don't sell enough photos to make exclusivity worth it, bundling it with video (if I understand you correctly) would stop almost anyone who shoots both from joining. I like the move as is, even if I don't end up doing it I hope it puts pressure on the other agencies.

SuperPhoto · « **Reply #76 on:** March 21, 2019, 14:46 »

Quote from: jjneff on March 21, 2019, 14:13

Just got off the phone with them, let's see what the future holds for us long term shooters! Now I am posting a video about it on my site but I will summarize it here. I think as a business this is a good move and needed at this time in the industry. I am seeing my RPD go down and buyers shopping around as well. The 60-40 split does not bother me and I would have done something similar. If you are a serious video producer then this is a good space for you! If they keep the buyers coming this will put pressure on Getty to get more content but do be fooled Getty is the one who has shafted the artist for $$$. Pond5 has set it so I make more then they do if I am exclusive! This is the move I expected and aside from a few glitches I hope it does well! Now I did make a suggestion to add photo in the exclusive pack so we could advertise that as well! Watch the video on my channel in about 1 hour if you want more info. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwoU327B927MD49NNf16gxw?view_as=subscriber

Surprised you are so extremely supportive. What did they say that made you think this way?

increasingdifficulty · « **Reply #77 on:** March 21, 2019, 14:57 »

This is a race to the bottom - of contributor share percentage.

They have seen that the others get away with 30% and people still happily send their stuff in, so they think "what the heck, why not go to 40%, then in a while, 30%".

This means a MAJOR upswing in earnings for them. 20% up on April 8th in one easy move. That is an ENORMOUS increase in earnings for a company. They know people aren't going to leave, just be angry on the forums for a while, and then it all goes back to normal. Well, except for 20% higher earnings for Pond5.

jonbull · « **Reply #78 on:** March 21, 2019, 15:02 »

Quote from: increasingdifficulty on March 21, 2019, 14:57

This is a race to the bottom - of contributor share percentage.

They have seen that the others get away with 30% and people still happily send their stuff in, so they think "what the heck, why not go to 40%, then in a while, 30%".

This means a MAJOR upswing in earnings for them. 20% up on April 8th in one easy move. That is an ENORMOUS increase in earnings for a company. They know people aren't going to leave, just be angry on the forums for a while, and then it all goes back to normal. Well, except for 20% higher earnings for Pond5.

i agree. it's a ended business for 99% of contributor soon in little time..hope many won't based their earning and life on micro and have a family too i won't literally was to be in their pants...sonn they will go 30 225 20 15 and 10...i'm still surprised ss is at 38% but s soon as they will lose royalties be sure they will cut royalty.
the only ututure in photography is talent and commission. stock are less profitable than staying outside a shop and asking for a dollar to the customer who enter.

tickstock · « **Reply #79 on:** March 21, 2019, 15:10 »

Quote from: jonbull on March 21, 2019, 15:02

Quote from: increasingdifficulty on March 21, 2019, 14:57
This is a race to the bottom - of contributor share percentage.

They have seen that the others get away with 30% and people still happily send their stuff in, so they think "what the heck, why not go to 40%, then in a while, 30%".

This means a MAJOR upswing in earnings for them. 20% up on April 8th in one easy move. That is an ENORMOUS increase in earnings for a company. They know people aren't going to leave, just be angry on the forums for a while, and then it all goes back to normal. Well, except for 20% higher earnings for Pond5.

i agree. it's a ended business for 99% of contributor soon in little time..hope many won't based their earning and life on micro and have a family too i won't literally was to be in their pants...sonn they will go 30 225 20 15 and 10...i'm still surprised ss is at 38% but s soon as they will lose royalties be sure they will cut royalty.
the only ututure in photography is talent and commission. stock are less profitable than staying outside a shop and asking for a dollar to the customer who enter.

Shutterstock is not at 38%, where did you get that idea?

jonbull · « **Reply #80 on:** March 21, 2019, 15:17 »

Quote from: tickstock on March 21, 2019, 15:10

Quote from: jonbull on March 21, 2019, 15:02
Quote from: increasingdifficulty on March 21, 2019, 14:57
This is a race to the bottom - of contributor share percentage.

They have seen that the others get away with 30% and people still happily send their stuff in, so they think "what the heck, why not go to 40%, then in a while, 30%".

This means a MAJOR upswing in earnings for them. 20% up on April 8th in one easy move. That is an ENORMOUS increase in earnings for a company. They know people aren't going to leave, just be angry on the forums for a while, and then it all goes back to normal. Well, except for 20% higher earnings for Pond5.

i agree. it's a ended business for 99% of contributor soon in little time..hope many won't based their earning and life on micro and have a family too i won't literally was to be in their pants...sonn they will go 30 225 20 15 and 10...i'm still surprised ss is at 38% but s soon as they will lose royalties be sure they will cut royalty.
the only ututure in photography is talent and commission. stock are less profitable than staying outside a shop and asking for a dollar to the customer who enter.
Shutterstock is not at 38%, where did you get that idea?

yes sorry i was doing the % based on subsritpition...anyway fact is that...every agency red is falling down...thats a fact. in a year we will talk about much much lower earning per download i bet y pants. free photos will be the future for most uses, only top notch production and high level creative will make a life ou of commercial photography.

tickstock · « **Reply #81 on:** March 21, 2019, 15:19 »

Quote from: jonbull on March 21, 2019, 15:17

Quote from: tickstock on March 21, 2019, 15:10
Quote from: jonbull on March 21, 2019, 15:02
Quote from: increasingdifficulty on March 21, 2019, 14:57
This is a race to the bottom - of contributor share percentage.

They have seen that the others get away with 30% and people still happily send their stuff in, so they think "what the heck, why not go to 40%, then in a while, 30%".

This means a MAJOR upswing in earnings for them. 20% up on April 8th in one easy move. That is an ENORMOUS increase in earnings for a company. They know people aren't going to leave, just be angry on the forums for a while, and then it all goes back to normal. Well, except for 20% higher earnings for Pond5.

i agree. it's a ended business for 99% of contributor soon in little time..hope many won't based their earning and life on micro and have a family too i won't literally was to be in their pants...sonn they will go 30 225 20 15 and 10...i'm still surprised ss is at 38% but s soon as they will lose royalties be sure they will cut royalty.
the only ututure in photography is talent and commission. stock are less profitable than staying outside a shop and asking for a dollar to the customer who enter.
Shutterstock is not at 38%, where did you get that idea?

yes sorry i was doing the % based on subsritpition...anyway fact is that...every agency red is falling down...thats a fact. in a year we will talk about much much lower earning per download i bet y pants. free photos will be the future for most uses, only top notch production and high level creative will make a life ou of commercial photography.

That's not the % you get from subscriptions either.

jjneff · « **Reply #82 on:** March 21, 2019, 15:29 »

They told me nothing you don't know on the business front. I just know that to succeed as a business you have to offer something others don't not hard to figure out, so I applaud the exclusive approach. I made a lot of money with Getty in the beginning and would still be exclusive if they treated the artist fair. 40% is still fair and hey the choice is always yours to make! I don't judge anyone's reason to do it or not! Always do what works best for yourself!!

Not Today · « **Reply #83 on:** March 21, 2019, 16:11 »

Quote from: tickstock on March 21, 2019, 15:19

Quote from: jonbull on March 21, 2019, 15:17
Quote from: tickstock on March 21, 2019, 15:10
Quote from: jonbull on March 21, 2019, 15:02
Quote from: increasingdifficulty on March 21, 2019, 14:57
This is a race to the bottom - of contributor share percentage.

They have seen that the others get away with 30% and people still happily send their stuff in, so they think "what the heck, why not go to 40%, then in a while, 30%".

This means a MAJOR upswing in earnings for them. 20% up on April 8th in one easy move. That is an ENORMOUS increase in earnings for a company. They know people aren't going to leave, just be angry on the forums for a while, and then it all goes back to normal. Well, except for 20% higher earnings for Pond5.

i agree. it's a ended business for 99% of contributor soon in little time..hope many won't based their earning and life on micro and have a family too i won't literally was to be in their pants...sonn they will go 30 225 20 15 and 10...i'm still surprised ss is at 38% but s soon as they will lose royalties be sure they will cut royalty.
the only ututure in photography is talent and commission. stock are less profitable than staying outside a shop and asking for a dollar to the customer who enter.
Shutterstock is not at 38%, where did you get that idea?

yes sorry i was doing the % based on subsritpition...anyway fact is that...every agency red is falling down...thats a fact. in a year we will talk about much much lower earning per download i bet y pants. free photos will be the future for most uses, only top notch production and high level creative will make a life ou of commercial photography.
That's not the % you get from subscriptions either.

Maybe 0.38 for subs

https://submit.shutterstock.com/payouts?language=en

everest · « **Reply #84 on:** March 21, 2019, 17:29 »

Forget Getty. We are talking about P5 here and their move to cut throat their contributors like many have done in the past hidden about bla bla bla.....retaining value....bla bla bla.....stopping the race to the bottom. Go exclusive if you want. I guarantee you that you will not make up for the loss you will make deleting your portfolio in other agencies. Whatever you do you will loose as a contributor.
Good luck with whatever choice you make........

Quote from: jjneff on March 21, 2019, 14:13

Just got off the phone with them, let's see what the future holds for us long term shooters! Now I am posting a video about it on my site but I will summarize it here. I think as a business this is a good move and needed at this time in the industry. I am seeing my RPD go down and buyers shopping around as well. The 60-40 split does not bother me and I would have done something similar. If you are a serious video producer then this is a good space for you! If they keep the buyers coming this will put pressure on Getty to get more content but do be fooled Getty is the one who has shafted the artist for $$$. Pond5 has set it so I make more then they do if I am exclusive! This is the move I expected and aside from a few glitches I hope it does well! Now I did make a suggestion to add photo in the exclusive pack so we could advertise that as well! Watch the video on my channel in about 1 hour if you want more info. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwoU327B927MD49NNf16gxw?view_as=subscriber

Noedelhap · « **Reply #85 on:** March 21, 2019, 18:54 »

Quote from: jjneff on March 21, 2019, 15:29

They told me nothing you don't know on the business front. I just know that to succeed as a business you have to offer something others don't not hard to figure out, so I applaud the exclusive approach. I made a lot of money with Getty in the beginning and would still be exclusive if they treated the artist fair. 40% is still fair and hey the choice is always yours to make! I don't judge anyone's reason to do it or not! Always do what works best for yourself!!

I'm also surprised at your positivity. Of course from their business side it's a good move, the backlash anticipated they will still increase their revenue. But have you given them our side of the story? For us it's either take the 20% revenue cut, or join the program and see your revenue more than halved overnight because we have to delete our other portfolios. Honestly, what makes you think that Pond5 will make up for that revenue loss? They'd have to offer double or triple the sales, and that is not going to happen anytime soon.

jjneff · « **Reply #86 on:** March 21, 2019, 19:03 »

I think they have heard that loud and clear so I am waiting to see how it shakes down. If they do nothing then bad news! I do feel they have been a good agency to work with so I am trying to think positive here.

trek · « **Reply #87 on:** March 21, 2019, 19:09 »

I'm curious about their Global Partner Program deal to sell through Adobe (I'm currently opted out). Anyone know what the pricing is?

Daryl Ray · « **Reply #88 on:** March 21, 2019, 20:11 »

I think we should give Pond5 some time to hear and digest what appears to be an overwhelmingly negative response, and rethink the artist exclusivity vs other option of clip exclusivity. Storyblocks listened, Alamy just did as well. They made a decision, heard the negative feedback, walked it back, at least a little. Pond5 can still change their mind.

The logic from the Youtube presentation was flawed in many ways, but even now they are still the most "artist friendly" stock company out there, as disappointing a move this is. But here we are with the screwing of the contributor with a bs storyline. Monkey see, monkey do. We can again thank iStock and all the other low-ball companies, and all of you that submit to them. Good work ruining it for everyone, again.

Artist exclusivity is a non-starter. No one company can be trusted with that responsibility, not even Pond5. I do wonder now if another company will emerge and fill the void as being the actual most "artist friendly" stock company since Pond5 seems more willing these days than ever to let that slip away.

wds · « **Reply #89 on:** March 21, 2019, 22:26 »

Quote from: jjneff on March 21, 2019, 19:03

I think they have heard that loud and clear so I am waiting to see how it shakes down. If they do nothing then bad news! I do feel they have been a good agency to work with so I am trying to think positive here.

But what about the simple math here? Do you see it such that dropping out of all other agencies and going exclusive at P5 will earn you more money?
And as for stills, there are virtually 0 sales at P5. Stills content that sells almost every day and sometimes multiple times per day on other sites has not sold one copy at P5 in over a year.

cobalt · « **Reply #90 on:** March 22, 2019, 03:06 »

While I do hope that they listen, it doesn‘t increase trust in the current management, if this is all they can come up with.

That producers would see through a 20% punishment, thinly veiled with 60% exclusivity for a minuscule number of people should have been obvious.

Adding exclusive clips, is the only logical solution if adding exclusive content was truly their intention to make a new offer to their customers.

To not offer that means they either really don‘t understand the industry and their own position in it or they thought producers are naive and wouldn‘t see the cash grab.

Quality producers can never go artist exclusive because after the istock disaster everyone knows the risk is too high. 60% can turn into 40% overnight or be replaced by „floating yearly targets“ the way istock does with new management.

I am very glad they left us control over prices...but that 4k experiment is still ongoing, right? And have they reassured us, they will never interfer into our portfolios again??

I really like pond5. Well, I like the pond5 that I know.

So we will see, but unfortunately I have to question the wisdom of those in charge by even rolling out the current plan. I miss the business logic apart from granting themselves 20% more.

georgep7 · « **Reply #91 on:** March 22, 2019, 03:24 »

Quote

Quality producers can never go artist exclusive because after the istock disaster everyone knows the risk is too high. 60% can turn into 40% overnight or be replaced by „floating yearly targets“ the way istock does with new management.

Here is another perspective.
I am a video editor.
I go to a production house.
They say "we hire you" so I work exclusively there.
I give 100% of my creative powers.

They bankrupt or dishonest out work agreement.

That's life, hard but still goes on.
The real catch is not exclusivity but to see it coming
and avoid it while still having profit I guess.

Noedelhap · « **Reply #92 on:** March 22, 2019, 05:12 »

Quote from: wds on March 21, 2019, 22:26

Quote from: jjneff on March 21, 2019, 19:03
I think they have heard that loud and clear so I am waiting to see how it shakes down. If they do nothing then bad news! I do feel they have been a good agency to work with so I am trying to think positive here.

But what about the simple math here? Do you see it such that dropping out of all other agencies and going exclusive at P5 will earn you more money?
And as for stills, there are virtually 0 sales at P5. Stills content that sells almost every day and sometimes multiple times per day on other sites has not sold one copy at P5 in over a year.

Stills and audio and templates are still 50/50 split, and not part of the exclusivity program AFAIK.

Noedelhap · « **Reply #93 on:** March 22, 2019, 05:16 »

Quote from: jjneff on March 21, 2019, 19:03

I think they have heard that loud and clear so I am waiting to see how it shakes down. If they do nothing then bad news! I do feel they have been a good agency to work with so I am trying to think positive here.

Positive thinking is one thing, but I prefer facts and figures to make my business decisions

You've been on the phone with them, did they say anything about the huge risks for us in terms of revenue loss?

cobalt · « **Reply #94 on:** March 22, 2019, 06:30 »

Quote from: georgep7 on March 22, 2019, 03:24

Quote

Quality producers can never go artist exclusive because after the istock disaster everyone knows the risk is too high. 60% can turn into 40% overnight or be replaced by „floating yearly targets“ the way istock does with new management.

Here is another perspective.
I am a video editor.
I go to a production house.
They say "we hire you" so I work exclusively there.
I give 100% of my creative powers.

They bankrupt or dishonest out work agreement.

That's life, hard but still goes on.
The real catch is not exclusivity but to see it coming
and avoid it while still having profit I guess.

That is the attitude for paid employee jobs.

You are a employed, you get your steady salary. If something happens and you lose your job, you just move on to another company and immediately have the same monthly income or maybe even higher.

Stock portfolios don‘t work that way. It takes years for files to establish themselves in individual rankings, get lightboxed by customers etc...

If you give up your exclusive status or that company goes bankrupt, you cannot just take your files, place them elsewhere and expect to immediately have the same income.

There are thousands of very good, high quality former istock producers who tried to do that. But even with over 12000 very, very good files, they could not quickly regain their income by placing them elsewhere.

Also uploading a large port to new places takes a crazy amount of time that blocks you for doing something else.

As for seeing it coming...if we could all do that, we would all be rich via the stock market....

The only people who can literally afford to be agency exclusive are the ones that don‘t really need the money. They have a steady, well paing day job and do a little stock on the side.

The other thing is the professional producers are also building up their ports to be a major factor in their retirement income.

Just like you never rely on just one investment form for retirement, you simply cannot rely on just one company for your old age. For stability you need the balance from several marketplaces.

So, you cannot be exclusive with pond5 for many years, then abruptly leave and get the same income elsewhere. The industry has the practical example of what happened to the istock artists, we know it simply doesn’t work that way.

jjneff · « **Reply #95 on:** March 22, 2019, 07:17 »

I did it, yep for 8 years I was an Getty Exclusive. When I dropped it and spread my work out it was really tough! I barely made it through on income and my hands ached for typing and uploading all my clips. It was worth it in the long run. I do a lot of model released work so I may give the Pond5 exclusive a go for at least a year. Good luck to all of us on any path we choose!

wds · « **Reply #96 on:** March 22, 2019, 07:49 »

Quote from: jjneff on March 22, 2019, 07:17

I did it, yep for 8 years I was an Getty Exclusive. When I dropped it and spread my work out it was really tough! I barely made it through on income and my hands ached for typing and uploading all my clips. It was worth it in the long run. I do a lot of model released work so I may give the Pond5 exclusive a go for at least a year. Good luck to all of us on any path we choose!

So you feel that the 6/5 increase in royalty rate on P5 will make up for your income from the other agencies going to 0?

csm · « **Reply #97 on:** March 22, 2019, 07:52 »

I gave my all producing exclusive stills for Corbis.
A friend used to say "What would you do if they go to the wall?"
I had no answer.
Then in 2016 they closed.
I'm still trying to recover to a steady situation.
When the going was good, I was happy just being with them.
When it wasn't`t I didn't know which way to turn.
I feel very uneasy about being exclusive to anyone, no matter how noble it sounds to be exclusive to keep prices high.

georgep7 · « **Reply #98 on:** March 22, 2019, 08:24 »

@cobalt,

I understand what you say, and in many things I believe you have valid points.

After all I am new to this, so I cannot claim that I know anything, not even the past history of stock!

jjneff · « **Reply #99 on:** March 22, 2019, 08:29 »

No I will only do it if there is a way to start exclusive now without deleting my files everywhere. If Pond5 never offers that option then I will never be exclusive!

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Author Topic: Pond5 "Good News"! (Read 28835 times)

tickstock

SuperPhoto

increasingdifficulty

jonbull

tickstock

jonbull

tickstock

jjneff

Not Today

everest

Noedelhap

jjneff

trek

Daryl Ray

wds

cobalt

georgep7

Noedelhap

Noedelhap

cobalt

jjneff

wds

csm

georgep7

jjneff

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