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Author Topic: Supply and demand  (Read 5100 times)

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« on: March 24, 2012, 16:02 »
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Supposing a loaf of bread costs $1 and the price is falling all the time because of great wheat harvests.  Someone corners the supply of wheat and it suddenly becomes much more expensive and a loaf of bread now costs $5.  Your average bread eater has a choice; pay the $5 or give up bread.

Its not the first time Ive made this suggestion but figured it was impractical because of the vast numbers of people submitting to stock sites.  However, I notice that very tiny sales in the order of 12 credits in a week results in a 7 day ranking of around 3000 on FT.  FT is not the industry but the only site I know of that produces this kind of information.  Extrapolating, Id suggest that less than 3,000 people are making $100 per week from MS thats a fraction of minimum wage where I live.  Further, probably less than 1,000 are making a living and maybe dozens who would be classed as high earners.

So heres the question, really aimed at those getting multiple thousands of DLs a month, but anyone feel free to join in:

Using SS style licensing as an example, if a site paid say $2 commission for a sub, say $20 for an OD and $150 for an EL for exclusive CONTENT (could never see the point in contributor exclusivity) downloads, would you buy into it bearing in mind that there would be a period of great pain while the supply is drying up on the low paying sites?


« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2012, 16:32 »
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No, for a few reasons.

1.  The analogy you describe is one of commodity.  It probably is apt for a large amount of copycat submissions to ms these days, but I consider my stuff different.  My style hasn't been duplicated, and my subject matter is niche yet in high demand, so I do pretty well on all the sites, big and small.  I wouldn't cut my flow of pics to any of the sites, because even at the commission levels you suggest, I would lose out.

2.  It's never wise to put all your eggs in one -- or even a select few -- baskets. 

« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2012, 16:58 »
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I don't think it's unfair to categorise stock as commodity, however unique or special some of it might be.  At the moment all the commercial pressure is to force prices downwards.  What I'm suggesting is a scenario that forces them upwards as, if the supply moves the demand will follow and other sites would have to raise prices and commissions to stay in the game -  no restriction on multiple markets (just not selling the same images elsewhere). 

Ed

« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2012, 17:41 »
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There's always downward pressure on prices - whether we're talking about wheat, milk, gasoline, oil, etc.

I'll put it bluntly....the issue is the agencies don't have the balls to raise prices and the suppliers to the agencies (US) don't have the balls to sell their product to higher paying agencies until prices go higher.  If the price leader in the industry put a foot forward and raised prices, and others in the industry raised their prices accordingly, then the market would have no choice but to pay more for images.  The problem is, every other agency keeps saying "You first!" and some agencies are lowering prices rather than providing value to their customers.

That's leaves us pointing the finger at ourselves....I don't understand why people would spend hours on end to upload to low earning agencies who pay next to nothing in commission and wait months on end for payout...and I especially don't understand why people market their images through agencies that play a shell game with relation to what commissions they pay their photographers.

This is no different than wedding photographers - go to Craig's List and you'll find plenty of crappy photographers willing to take $500 for a full day wedding shoot, then you have folks like Zack and Jody Gray that are charging thousands.  The difference is the value they bring to their clients.  Unfortunately, places like Fotolia haven't figured that one out yet.

There are a few of us that are starting to take a stand...what are you going to do to improve YOUR business?

« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2012, 19:24 »
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There are a few of us that are starting to take a stand...what are you going to do to improve YOUR business?

I gave up Fotolia years ago, and went exclusive on IS. It was a big improvement ;)

KB

« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2012, 19:31 »
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There are a few of us that are starting to take a stand...what are you going to do to improve YOUR business?

I gave up Fotolia years ago, and went exclusive on IS. It was a big improvement ;)
Believe me, I'm the first one to complain about what they did to us with commissions. But I agree with your statement (even though it was meant as a bit of irony or sarcasm), it is a big improvement.

Now that an exclusive XS photo is 3 credits, only about 1 in 40 or 50 sales earn me < $1 (either cheap credits, or an XS sub sale). When I was independent there were very few agencies that I could say that about (3D Studio being the only one that comes to mind).

It's too bad that all the agencies don't have the guts to raise prices as iStock has; several seem to have followed their footsteps on cutting commissions, though.  :(

wut

« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2012, 19:59 »
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Now that an exclusive XS photo is 3 credits, only about 1 in 40 or 50 sales earn me < $1 (either cheap credits, or an XS sub sale). When I was independent there were very few agencies that I could say that about (3D Studio being the only one that comes to mind).

It's too bad that all the agencies don't have the guts to raise prices as iStock has; several seem to have followed their footsteps on cutting commissions, though.  :(

It really is great that they're paying exclusives 3 cr for XS. First of, the vast majority of DLs is XS or S, second, it's quite a strong incentive for buyers to buy S instead of XS (hell it's just 2 more credits and I really get a noticeably larger resolution). It really show at the end of the month, I can really see the difference with my P+ files, getting for instance 0.52 instead of 0.26$ so many times every week or month. And it makes you think about exclusivity at times. I'm having my 3rd BME in a row. But then again, things are about the same at SS and FT is picking up too...Ahhh, if nothing else, contributing to just one agency is just so much easier, you can focus more on actually planing shoots and doing them. And it's nice to get those $100+ sales too (A/V/EL)

« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2012, 20:02 »
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The others haven't followed IS in lowering commissions, IS has followed them. FT and DT were first.
SS hasn't reduced commissions, but it has raised prices without raising commissions to the same extent, which is the same thing, and hasn't given a raise for years.
Why would the others raise prices, when they can pick up easy business by taking on disgruntled IS customers?
If I trusted IS, I would have spent the last years encouraging people to dump the others and go exclusive. Unfortunately, I don't trust them, and at this point it would be difficult for them to  change that.
To go back to what the OP was saying, there are plenty of things you can do other than just accept whatever the bad sites throw at you.  Don't bother waiting for togs to get together, come up with your own ideas and just get on with things.

« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2012, 21:29 »
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There are a few of us that are starting to take a stand...what are you going to do to improve YOUR business?

Don't bother waiting for togs to get together, come up with your own ideas and just get on with things.

Exactly. I stopped worrying about what everyone else is doing. I'm just trying to make my own business plan better.

« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2012, 07:17 »
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For me this is a hobby that more than pays for itself so essentially I don't really care about relative payments rates because time spent isn't a factor.  I'm just making an observation that the current model is for downwards prices.  For me, SS return per download is less than half what it is on DT but return per image is 3 times greater.  Do any search on both sites and you will pretty much see the same images returned so what is driving the traffic?  The only difference I see is price and the only way to buck the trend is if each site has exclusive content, with good incentive for for making content exclusive (instead of spreading it right across the Internet) so that what the buyer is looking for is not available at a fraction of the price elsewhere.

Consider it a theoretical argument only, I don't see it actually happening  ;D

Ed

« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2012, 11:26 »
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Do any search on both sites and you will pretty much see the same images returned so what is driving the traffic?

This is no different than wedding photographers - go to Craig's List and you'll find plenty of crappy photographers willing to take $500 for a full day wedding shoot, then you have folks like Zack and Jody Gray that are charging thousands.  The difference is the value they bring to their clients.  Unfortunately, places like Fotolia haven't figured that one out yet.

...already answered that question  ;D

« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2012, 12:17 »
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Do any search on both sites and you will pretty much see the same images returned so what is driving the traffic?

This is no different than wedding photographers - go to Craig's List and you'll find plenty of crappy photographers willing to take $500 for a full day wedding shoot, then you have folks like Zack and Jody Gray that are charging thousands.  The difference is the value they bring to their clients.  Unfortunately, places like Fotolia haven't figured that one out yet.

...already answered that question  ;D

Not really :-D   Im not talking about similar material, Im talking about exactly the same material by exactly the same suppliers.  To use your example, its like Zack and Jody Gray (whoever they are) charging thousands or $500 depending on where you buy their services.


 

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