MicrostockGroup Sponsors


Author Topic: Pros and cons of revenue sharing model vs flat percentage of sale price  (Read 1779 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Noedelhap

  • www.colincramm.com

« on: November 26, 2019, 12:49 »
0
As you may know, some agencies use a different model when it comes to paying their contributors. Instead of the regular commission percentage per sale, these agencies  share a percentage of their montly generated revenue amongst their contributors. The amount per contributor depends on the number of downloads compared to the number of downloads of other contributors.

Obviously, if the contributor's sales don't keep up, their monthly revenue will slowly diminish as better performing contributors get a bigger piece of the pie. The revenue per month is also directly linked to the performance of the agency as a whole, but in some ways this is also the case with agencies using a regular payment model.

So I'm trying to find out if this sharing model has any specific differences I'm missing. Could someone share some pros and/or cons compared to the regular model? Is this model intransparent or unfair? Is it something to avoid? Or is it a good and fair approach?


« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2019, 18:16 »
0
I never heard of this model, to be honest.

« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2019, 20:08 »
+3
All the revenue sharing sites I've seen are tied to unlimited subscriptions... where buyers (and thieves) can download thousand of videos or images a month for a few pennies each.  That's why I stay away from those sites. 

SpaceStockFootage

  • Space, Sci-Fi and Astronomy Related Stock Footage

« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2019, 21:38 »
+2
Yeah it's only used by sites that offer unlimited subscriptions. Pros and cons of subscription sites aside, revenue sharing is the only fair way to do it that results in the agency and the contributors getting the same percentage of revenue every month. If they did implement a set amount per download, you can guarantee that the agencies would err on the side of caution and set it too low (to compensate for months with higher than normal downloads)... so contributors would miss out.   

« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2019, 16:58 »
+3
I think there are maybe more ways for the sites to "game" the system with a revenue share - like charge a huge fee to be a member and then a very low fee to get the subscription - only share based on the subscription fee. I am not saying that this is what is done, but I think there are more options for funny business. Sadly I think there are lots of ways for the sites to take a bigger piece of the action and the more opaque and black-box the payment system is the more ripe for abuse it is.

Didn't Istock use a revenue sharing system when they first started subs?

I'd like to see a guaranteed minimum per sale too - that way if the site offers some huge discount or free images for marketing or whatever they cover the difference.

« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2019, 20:00 »
+1
the only fair way to do it that results in the agency and the contributors getting the same percentage of revenue every month.

Quite a contradiction there.
If it was fair - then the contributors would've gotten a bigger percentage as they are the ones doing the work.

Then again, you have to come up with all sorts of bs excuses when you work for envato.
It's a part of being "creative"
« Last Edit: November 27, 2019, 20:03 by vectorblazer »

SpaceStockFootage

  • Space, Sci-Fi and Astronomy Related Stock Footage

« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2019, 23:23 »
+1
the only fair way to do it that results in the agency and the contributors getting the same percentage of revenue every month.

Quite a contradiction there.
If it was fair - then the contributors would've gotten a bigger percentage as they are the ones doing the work.

I completely agree. But in the real world that we live in, it's very rare that contributors ever get more than half of the sale price. With 50% on Elements, around 35% for non-exclusive on the marketplace and around 50 to 70% for exclusive on the marketplace... it's a lot higher than quite a few places.

But no, I dont work for Envato. And I dont make excuses for them... I usually just state facts and occasionally information from my own sales experience with them. Usually as a result of people making stuff up about them which isn't true, based on their own (usually) unfounded mistrust or dislike of them.

« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2019, 02:09 »
+1
First you claim to agree, then you go back to your bs  "in the real world" .
Just because you have no self value and you're willing to sell your work for nothing, doesn't mean its the real world. It's YOUR real world.
Some gay male prostitutes have their "real world", everyone has its own "real world"

There's a huge difference, first of all,even @ envato market you only start with %50 , that quickly goes up to %70, and its over 10 years that model worked fair and square.
That's a sale price, which isn't the same as subscriber share. 50% - 70% on a $15 sale or $29 is far more than %50 on a $0.000005. (And let's not mention the Aussie tax laws which deduct another clean %30 out of your total!!, unless you're a commonwealth country)

But once again, I'm "one outta the two" people who in the world "suffer from an unfounded mistrust" of envato.
The rest are clearly not as "delusional" as I am, and they know Envato are honest and god-like.

You keep selling Space Planets and Azerbaijan map renders for your "fair share of %50" out of the 15 cents you get for it  - > don't mind me.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2019, 02:36 by vectorblazer »

SpaceStockFootage

  • Space, Sci-Fi and Astronomy Related Stock Footage

« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2019, 10:51 »
+1
I agree that contributors should get more than 50%, but most agencies font pay more than 50%... so unless you want to avoid the majority of agencies, then theres not much we can do about it. There's nothing conflicting there and stating facts isn't bs. Unless you live in a world where the majority of agencies do pay more than 50%... or do you actualy not submit to any agency that pays less than 50%?

« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2019, 15:53 »
+2
the only fair way to do it that results in the agency and the contributors getting the same percentage of revenue every month.

Quite a contradiction there.
If it was fair - then the contributors would've gotten a bigger percentage as they are the ones doing the work.

I completely agree. But in the real world that we live in, it's very rare that contributors ever get more than half of the sale price. With 50% on Elements, around 35% for non-exclusive on the marketplace and around 50 to 70% for exclusive on the marketplace... it's a lot higher than quite a few places.

But no, I dont work for Envato. And I dont make excuses for them... I usually just state facts and occasionally information from my own sales experience with them. Usually as a result of people making stuff up about them which isn't true, based on their own (usually) unfounded mistrust or dislike of them.

50% on Elements??? Oh really?

Yes up to June 2019 then after that next to nothing after Envato moved the goal posts:

May 2019 $267.89 bonus
June 2019 $224.41 bonus

then
 
July 2019 $9.43 bonus
August $10.63 bonus
Sept. $0.00
Oct. $0.00

The revenue share scheme is a joke "based on my own actual observation of what they actually did"

Oh and they sold 80 of my images in October and I made a grand total of $13.67
or $0.17 per sale which is way below par compared to other agencies.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2019, 03:55 by Bad Robot »

« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2019, 20:53 »
+2
SpaceStockFootage is the Envato groupie. Always excusing them for their actions.
It's years of conditioning, he's been so used to getting bullied and selling himself short.
Just doesn't make sense to read the nonsense he is typing anymore.
In the Envato forums he does complain, then someone "slaps" him, then he "obeys" again.
The ultimate beta male behavior.


« Last Edit: November 28, 2019, 20:57 by vectorblazer »

SpaceStockFootage

  • Space, Sci-Fi and Astronomy Related Stock Footage

« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2019, 21:43 »
+2
50% on Elements??? Oh really?

This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about! Based on your actual observations... you don't like it. That's fine. Based on the actual facts... it is 50%. Envato Elements shares 50% of all revenue they make with contributors. You can throw whatever figures into the mix that you like based on how much you earn or don't earn... but that doesn't change anything. And once again, that's not me sticking up for anyone, that's me pointing out how it works.

SpaceStockFootage

  • Space, Sci-Fi and Astronomy Related Stock Footage

« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2019, 21:55 »
+2
SpaceStockFootage is the Envato groupie. Always excusing them for their actions.
It's years of conditioning, he's been so used to getting bullied and selling himself short.
Just doesn't make sense to read the nonsense he is typing anymore.
In the Envato forums he does complain, then someone "slaps" him, then he "obeys" again.
The ultimate beta male behavior.

Yeah, but you see... it's your years of negative opinions of Envato, that's conditioned you to see me explaining that Elements pays out 50% of all revenue to contributors as... 'excusing them for their actions'. By saying that they pay out 50% and having the opinion that 50% isn't all that bad compared to a lot of other agencies... how is that excusing them for their actions or sticking up for them for being an Envato groupie? 

As for your screenshot... I didn't understand how the calculation for the new bonus scheme worked. I expressed that in the forums, somebody explained how it worked... I realised what I was missing and then I understood. Where are you getting complaints from? When did anybody slap me? When did I then 'obey'?

Once again, your negative opinions of Enavto (and myself) seem to be warping reality for you slightly.

« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2019, 00:39 »
+1
"your observations" just comes to prove how oblivious your are to the opinion of others.(Plural, as in NOT just me, look here, its another person going after you)

Once again, you pin point everything on a particular person when in reality there's a bunch of folks out there. (but this won't register will it? you'll avoid responsibility for being hated among many)

You're a Shill ->
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill


This way of narrow mindedness isn't only projected in your behavior,
Fortunately, your portfolio and aesthetic is pretty much parallel to your narrow mind.
"Shots of Space and Maps" - in what? 10 years, that's the only thing you can come up with.
You're not even a one trick pony, you're half a trick baboon.

You sure you wanna keep this discussion when you can render more maps and satellites ?
Those 15 cents for your 4k renders are out there !! go get them, tiger.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2019, 00:50 by vectorblazer »

SpaceStockFootage

  • Space, Sci-Fi and Astronomy Related Stock Footage

« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2019, 01:34 »
+2
"your observations" just comes to prove how oblivious your are to the opinion of others.(Plural, as in NOT just me, look here, its another person going after you)

Once again, you pin point everything on a particular person when in reality there's a bunch of folks out there. (but this won't register will it? you'll avoid responsibility for being hated among many)

You're a Shill ->
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill


This way of narrow mindedness isn't only projected in your behavior,
Fortunately, your portfolio and aesthetic is pretty much parallel to your narrow mind.
"Shots of Space and Maps" - in what? 10 years, that's the only thing you can come up with.
You're not even a one trick pony, you're half a trick baboon.

You sure you wanna keep this discussion when you can render more maps and satellites ?
Those 15 cents for your 4k renders are out there !! go get them, tiger.

There you go again, getting personal and bring in a bunch of stuff that has nothing to do with the matter at hand. Envato Elements pay out 50% of the revenue they collect and compared to other agencies that's a pretty fair split. You seem to disagree, so I'm assuming you don;t submit to Shutterstock, iStock or Pond5? We're not on about whether the concept of Elements is fair, I made that clear in my first post in this thread and I've never commented on that in this thread... but you seem to have some vendetta against me purely for saying that Elements pays out 50% of the revenue collected and that's a pretty fair commission split compared to others?!

As for my space and maps... surprisingly enough (maps aside, but they kind of fit) I don't add non-space stuff to my space related account! I do to other accounts. It's called branding ->

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Branding

As for 15 cents for my 4K renders... you get 0 cents for your 4K renders because you're not on Elements. That's the point where you say... well I get considerably money for my 4K renders, because I sell them at agencies that provide a fair price. That where I say... yeah, so am I, but I get the Elements revenue on top, which adds an extra $1K or so a month. And I'm pretty sure they're very different customer bases, so it's not like my sales at other sites are taking a hit as a result. May sales are growing at the major sites. 

« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2019, 03:54 »
0
50% on Elements??? Oh really?

This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about! Based on your actual observations... you don't like it. That's fine. Based on the actual facts... it is 50%. Envato Elements shares 50% of all revenue they make with contributors. You can throw whatever figures into the mix that you like based on how much you earn or don't earn... but that doesn't change anything. And once again, that's not me sticking up for anyone, that's me pointing out how it works.

Its quite obvious where your loyalties lie.

Figures speak for themselves and I'll just choose to ignore an obvious Envato shill in future  ;D

« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2019, 04:02 »
+1
Quote
Envato Elements pay out 50% of the revenue they collect and compared to other agencies that's a pretty fair split.

If it was really that simple, you wouldn't have needed to post a question in their forums, would you?
The reason you asked a question was:

Quote
I didn't understand how the calculation for the new bonus scheme worked. I expressed that in the forums, somebody explained how it worked... I realised what I was missing and then I understood.

Can you count how many times you used the word "I" here???
You're choking on your on crap. It literally sounds that way, just read out loud what you typed.
You're a shill,  and even till now you don't understand how their "revenue sharing" system works.
You can only fool yourself, and the moderators who still didn't ban you for being a shill.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2019, 04:07 by vectorblazer »


SpaceStockFootage

  • Space, Sci-Fi and Astronomy Related Stock Footage

« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2019, 06:42 »
0
You know I'm a moderator right? I am the one who bans... to borrow a quote.

Yes, I didn't understand the bonus scheme, but it was explained to me.and cleared up within a matter of hours. I understand now! But none of that changes the fact that 50% of the revenue is distributed to contributors. Me having to repeatedly state that the commission rate is 50% (which it is!) because people seem to think otherwise for no clear reason, has nothing to do with where my loyalties do or not lie!

« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2019, 09:14 »
0
You know I'm a moderator right? I am the one who bans... to borrow a quote.



Is that a veiled threat?   ::)




Noedelhap

  • www.colincramm.com

« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2019, 10:44 »
+1
Guys, I value everyone's opinion in my thread and I'm looking forward to see more people adding insight on the revenue sharing model, but take your personal fights somewhere else, please.

« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2019, 17:49 »
+1
Guys, I value everyone's opinion in my thread and I'm looking forward to see more people adding insight on the revenue sharing model, but take your personal fights somewhere else, please.

Its not a personal fight I just just dislike blatantly inaccurate information being passed off by by people with a vested interest in promoting Envato and then making veiled threats to "ban".

But I digress as to the revenue scheme operated by  the likes of Envato it isn't worth the paper its written on.  They started a share scheme 2 years ago and then
pulled the legs from under it in June once they got their hands on "high quality images".

The revenue is now shared amongst their pet photographers, anyone else gets crumbs or nothing.


« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2019, 20:39 »
+1
Guys, I value everyone's opinion in my thread and I'm looking forward to see more people adding insight on the revenue sharing model, but take your personal fights somewhere else, please.

Its not a personal fight I just just dislike blatantly inaccurate information being passed off by by people with a vested interest in promoting Envato and then making veiled threats to "ban".

But I digress as to the revenue scheme operated by  the likes of Envato it isn't worth the paper its written on.  They started a share scheme 2 years ago and then
pulled the legs from under it in June once they got their hands on "high quality images".

The revenue is now shared amongst their pet photographers, anyone else gets crumbs or nothing.

Welcome to envato...the agency that gives 50% of nothing...

SpaceStockFootage

  • Space, Sci-Fi and Astronomy Related Stock Footage

« Reply #22 on: November 29, 2019, 22:08 »
+1
I just just dislike blatantly inaccurate information

Exactly the same for me! It's just that you're the one with the inaccurate information and I'm the one with the accurate information. You feel it's the other way around, but I'm afraid it's not! If you could point out one inaccurate statement I've made in this thread then I'd be happy to reconsider that!

They started a share scheme 2 years ago and then
pulled the legs from under it in June once they got their hands on "high quality images".

The revenue is now shared amongst their pet photographers, anyone else gets crumbs or nothing.

If by 'pet photographers', you mean people who actually sell images, then you're right. You're also very wrong and slightly self-centred if you think that the Photodune content contributes any kind of significant numbers to the overall revenue pool at Elements. Or Envato for that matter. Your 'high quality images' aren't all that big a deal I'm afraid!

But you make it sound like the bonus is distributed manually... to people they like. They've just updated the bonus scheme to make it reflect actual earnings. Which, because you don't earn much... you don't like. If you earned a lot then your bonus would have gone up. I mean come on... if you're making $20 or $30 a month then even you, in your limited capacity for understanding, must think that a $225 bonus is a bit extreme?!

People who used to earn about $500 are still getting their $225 bonus. People who used to earn $1000/$2000 are getting considerably more (as they should) and people who are earning $10 or so, get next to nothing. They basically took the money they used to use for the bonus... and added it to the money they distribute for actual earnings. You may be earning less as a result, because you earn such a low amount, but it's definitely fairer.

and then making veiled threats to "ban".

It was a joke based on a line from Breaking Bad. And a correction. Aside from blatant spammers, I think I've only banned one person in the past few years... and that was temporary. The ability for people to express their opinions or concerns is important to me... no matter how stupid, misguided, misinformed or idiotic they may be. My main goal is to inform, but with some people, it's like talking to a brick wall. But hey... that's the way I roll!

And even if it was a threat, which it wasn't... I think being banned from the forums of one's least favourite stock agency, is unlikely to lose anyone any sleep! 

But yeah... I basically feel like Envato is Obama, I'm the press secretary for Obama, and you lot are Trump supporters. It doesn't matter what I say or how true it is... it's wrong. Just because! Based on multiple political leanings, and where people might fit in that analogy... it's only fair that I also say that I feel like Envato is Trump, I'm the press secretary for Trump and you lot are Obama supporters. It doesn't matter what I say or how true it is... it's wrong. Just because!

The difference is... I don't have to make stuff up. I don't make excuses for Envato. I don't have to. I just state the facts. Facts that a whole bunch of people just choose to ignore, or feel that I'm lying or making stuff up or cheerleading for Envato. Come on guys... stop and think for a moment. Read through this thread! I have been, and am repeatedly saying that Envato share 50% of the revenue and that 50% is a pretty fair share based on the share provided by other agencies. That's pretty much it, aside from a few other topics we've covered. And for some reason that makes me the anti-*, a blatant liar, a shill, probably some descendant of Hitler. I just don't get where you're getting this from... where the vitriol, is coming from?!

« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2019, 23:05 »
+1
Quote
They've just updated the bonus scheme to make it reflect actual earnings. Which, because you don't earn much... you don't like. If you earned a lot then your bonus would have gone up. I mean come on... if you're making $20 or $30 a month then even you, in your limited capacity for understanding, must think that a $225 bonus is a bit extreme?!

So "fair %50 revenue for all" or is it "bonuses for the best sellers" ?
Cause these 2 at the same time can't exist. %50 equal revenue means %50 equal.
It's that simple.

Fact is, only @ Envato Elements you don't get to see how many downloaded your item!
Why don't you ever mention that? How is that "fair" ??
If you're so much about facts, why don't you ever touch that subject?
How can you even calculate how much $$ you get per download when elements won't tell you how many downloads you've had?

Does Adobe Stock Hide that information from you? does Shutterstock? Getty?
No.  Even in Getty or Shutterstock you're notified about every subscription user download.
It might end up being $0.05 , but they have the decency and honesty to tell you.
That's what you're into, facts no? So where does this fair act in your equilibrium of justice play ?
Can you elaborate to why envato doesn't share that information with its users?
Or how "fair" do you think this is" ?

You, work for envato, and you moderate these forums, this will be a proof of how corrupted these forums are.

Quote


And for some reason that makes me the anti-*, a blatant liar, a shill, probably some descendant of Hitler.

There's huge difference between a Liar, a Shill and a descendant of Hitler.



« Last Edit: November 29, 2019, 23:17 by vectorblazer »

« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2019, 05:04 »
0
And for some reason that makes me the anti-*, a blatant liar, a shill, probably some descendant of Hitler. I just don't get where you're getting this from... where the vitriol, is coming from?!

Sorry but I called you a shill; in no way did I mention you being a descendent of Hitler
and its not vitriol I state the facts and you have a hissy fit  I just don't get where you're getting this from...  ;D

And thanks for clarifying that Envato don't give a sh*t about photos/photodune I'll stop uploading there and delete the account and go make money at a real agency that doesn't operate a share scheme like theirs.

:-*

P.S. I've never watched Breaking Bad  ::) ::)


 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
0 Replies
2073 Views
Last post January 23, 2010, 06:26
by dnavarrojr
2 Replies
1760 Views
Last post December 20, 2012, 16:17
by Jo Ann Snover
5 Replies
1863 Views
Last post November 20, 2013, 17:56
by pixel86
3 Replies
1004 Views
Last post February 02, 2014, 04:59
by Pauws99
26 Replies
5352 Views
Last post August 01, 2014, 13:50
by EmberMike

Sponsors

Microstock Poll Results