Quote from: leaf on April 07, 2011, 18:09

admin edit:  I just removed about 10 posts from this thread (and one other 'spring off' thread) ... which were a sour exchange of comments

Darn. I was just about to pull up a chair and grab some popcorn. 

The "show" always seems to happen on a Friday night. 

I'd say "anger" is justified. We signed up with the promise of a certain commission rate, we put up with their lousy site, and we were rewarded with a 25% paycut.

^ It's more than that for nons.  With the addition of Ex+, Vetta then Agency, three new layers of best match priority have been bestowed upon the non-exclusives.  So in addition to a ~15-25% pay cut, we now have poorer placement in the search as a result because these other layers receive preferred placement.  I've been keeping track of my DL volume and I've gone from averaging 15 dl per day to 10 since January.  I will be tracking this for the year to get enough data to make a reasonable inference as to whether these layers have affected my volume...but I am pretty sure it's contributing at least to some degree.

We contributors behave really silly in some ways. I know everyone needs money so its hard to quit IS. But I dont think telling pure truth about IS is badmouthing. In my opinion, agencies SHOULD NOT change agreements as they like - we do business together and try to change just one side of agreements in "normal" business - you will be broken ASAP! Clear example is Fotolia, where I still have in my agreement with them 30% commision but in fact they pay me much less. what?!

I do not recommend IS to both customers and photographers. I also wrote on my blog I dont think they are fair partner and why.

I also have very good insight on small stock agency and anything over 60% for agency is simply greed. Old stock agencies had to print catalogues, send them to customers, send all invoices, slides etc. via normal slow-mail and their share was 50%. Microstock DOES NOT have these costs and they told us 20% commision is too high?! OMG!

You want to bring down a company that paid you $25,000?

You could have said:
"IStock want to screw the contributors that built them up from nothing and make them millions every year?"

The relationship works both ways, and lets not forget who stuck the knife in first.

You want to bring down a company that paid you $25,000?

Your argument is invalid. If istock goes out of business the sales don`t just disappear. Buyers will buy elsewhere and since istock ahs the lowest commissions this means automatically that his revenue goes UP. Or, in other words:
if istock with 25.000 goes down, he earns automatically 50.000 and more elsewhere.

I apply the formula: don`t buy at istock, don`t sell at istock.

Istock is an abusive system.
If you buy at istock, you support an abusive system.
If you upload to istock, you support a abusive system.
If you are an exclusive artist at istock you give your name and all your creativity to an abusive system. Nothing to be proud of, buth rather ashamed.
Simple and clear.

That's a good philosophy, but where does it stop? Does it extend to FT, DT, SS? There are very few agencies that I think have got it right.

Ok, so after being inspired by this thread yesterday, I got brave and called up 3 local production houses to tell them about istock and their poor treatment of contributors.  The response I got was quite mixed.  Company 1: Thank you for letting us know.  We actually do use istock for a lot of our stock needs and I will certainly pass this information along to other producers that we work with.  Company 2: They didn't care about what I had to say, treated me like a telemarketer, etc... not that I entirely blame them as this was an unsolicited call.  Company 3: Yes we are aware of the issues with istock and have slowly tapered off our use of them.  We typically try other stock sites first to see if we can find the subject we need.

I'm going to try to call a couple more today.  Can you imagine what would happen if everybody started doing this??  What we need is a leader to organize this "movement."  Individually we can't accomplish much, but together we are a force to be reckoned with.

As long as we're dreaming and talking about off the wall ideas, here's another one:  What if we created a boycott istock petition and got a massive amount of contributors to sign it.  The petition basically says that on July 4th, 2011, if Istock does not raise their royalties back up to the levels they were at when we signed up with them, then everybody on the list will pull their content.  We make a website with a big counter on it, counting down to "Independance Day."  As contributors, this alleviates some of the doubts that individually removing our content will accomplish anything and makes us a part of something bigger.  As I said before, I doubt this would ever get going... but its fun to dream right!

The bottom line is always profit. I belong to the top 8 stock sites. They all turn a profit. Some turn more profit than others. Some are more fair than others. But it's not good business to wish that the least fair go away, on the speculation that I might turn more profit at another site. There will always be a site that is the least fair. If iStock goes away then some other site will be the least fair. So what then? Go after that site?

If you don't like a company's business practices don't work for that company. I recommend that buyers visit the site that earns me the best percentage. I can't support the elimination of of my second biggest earner just because their percentage is low.

I apply the formula: don`t buy at istock, don`t sell at istock.

Istock is an abusive system.
If you buy at istock, you support an abusive system.
If you upload to istock, you support a abusive system.
If you are an exclusive artist at istock you give your name and all your creativity to an abusive system. Nothing to be proud of, buth rather ashamed.
Simple and clear.

Im only talking about myself here but i feel that there are no viable alternatives for me as a vector exclusive on istock. Im sure a lot of exclusives would agree that the sept announcement killed off any warm feelings contributors had towards the company. Your right, the pride is no longer there but i feel trapped. I'd like to know if there are any independents making hundreds a day off vector at other sites. I have no experience on other sites but i just dont think there are any at the moment to replace sales from istock. I know vectors and photos are different but i feel that the buyers are the same for both.

Quote from: velocicarpo on April 08, 2011, 09:21

I apply the formula: don`t buy at istock, don`t sell at istock.

Istock is an abusive system.
If you buy at istock, you support an abusive system.
If you upload to istock, you support a abusive system.
If you are an exclusive artist at istock you give your name and all your creativity to an abusive system. Nothing to be proud of, buth rather ashamed.
Simple and clear.

Im only talking about myself here but i feel that there are no viable alternatives for me as a vector exclusive on istock. Im sure a lot of exclusives would agree that the sept announcement killed off any warm feelings contributors had towards the company. Your right, the pride is no longer there but i feel trapped. I'd like to know if there are any independents making hundreds a day off vector at other sites. I have no experience on other sites but i just dont think there are any at the moment to replace sales from istock. I know vectors and photos are different but i feel that the buyers are the same for both.

I completely understand your feelings and decisions, but it is OUR responsibility to support other sites and build up alternatives. Otherwise, may it be from a business or moral standpoint, we are screwed on the long run.

I recommend cancel exclusivity in any case. Yes. This is painful. But even if in the beginning there is a commercial loss (which may recover within short time) the feeling of freedom and not-beeing-abused rewards a lot.

If we start to support other sites they will be just as strong and you will be able to earn more.
If you enver support other sites and never make the step the dependence will lead to a abuse of power from istock.
If your strategic horizon is short, you will be trapped into a histeric and reaction-only circle where you only can lose.

Quote from: StockNRoll on April 08, 2011, 09:40

Ok, so after being inspired by this thread yesterday, I got brave and called up 3 local production houses to tell them about istock and their poor treatment of contributors.  The response I got was quite mixed.  Company 1: Thank you for letting us know.  We actually do use istock for a lot of our stock needs and I will certainly pass this information along to other producers that we work with.  Company 2: They didn't care about what I had to say, treated me like a telemarketer, etc... not that I entirely blame them as this was an unsolicited call.  Company 3: Yes we are aware of the issues with istock and have slowly tapered off our use of them.  We typically try other stock sites first to see if we can find the subject we need.

I'd suggest using your time to go out and shoot rather than harassing design companies.  You sound like a real jerk.

Or, as an alternative, use most of your time by going out and shooting, and continue to make your calls. Just don't report them all here. Keep it on the down-low, to avoid being called names. 

I have always wondered why one would be aiming to become a free, self-employed photographer just to sign exclusivity with an "virtual" MS company, that does not make any sense at all. No matter how many little tiny icons they offer you for that and no matter how that company is called.

Really?  You've always wondered that?  Nothing better to wonder about?